View Full Version : C.S Lewis.
Rising_General
12-31-2004, 05:48
I have gone on a journey the last few years, Walking though the darkest time in my life. I have spent days reading, hours searching, and minutes thinking. And then it happened, I stumbled upon a book titled " The Screwtape Letters" as i read though the pages I found myself captivated . So much of what was contained in this book I found to be so true. if not pertaining to me then to others close to me.
Since then I read numerous others books written by Lewis. he takes the most complex issues and wraps them In a beautiful tapestry of the english language. He forces those who read his work to come to terms with there own philosophical presuppositions. His wit, wisdom, and style are scarcly rivaled. I recommend Anyone who is searching, lost, or think that they have found there place to read some of his works. "The Abolition of Man" "the Screwtape letters" "Mere Christianity" and "God in the dock" are just some of his sixty-six plus books. My mind was kicked into high gear, my beliefs were challenged and I found something that I had been searching for. Some put him at the same table as Aristolte, Plato, Hume, and other great intellectual thinkers of are time. And others put him as a radical lunatic, A superb writer with a misguided worldview. I challenge You to pick up one of his books and see for yourself.
JS,
Lewis on deception.
Nothing can deceive unless it bears a plausible resemblance to reality
Well I had that sort of feeling the first time I read Sartre's work, just that feeling of everything you had a sort of feeling of understanding and believing being unfolded infront of you by someone, it is great.
As for Lewis and what I know of his beliefs from some of his books - they don't suit me a bit. He is a great writer for Christians who want their belief put into great writing, unfortunately that isn't me at all.
PanzerJaeger
12-31-2004, 09:51
An excellent writer.
You might want to check out a movie about him.. man i cant remember the name now but you can probably find it on google. Its more about his relationship with a woman, later his wife, than his beliefs outright. But as the movie progresses, his own beliefs are challenged. I dont know how factual it is, but it was a good drama..
panzer, do you mean Shadowlands?
check: www.imdb.com for it...
I Some put him at the same table as Aristolte, Plato, Hume, and other great intellectual thinkers of are time. And others put him as a radical lunatic, A superb writer with a misguided worldview. I challenge You to pick up one of his books and see for yourself.
Lewis would be turning in his grave if he heard you putting him on the same table as those who committed depraved acts which are contrary to Christian doctrine; which both Plato and Aristotle did. they did not have great minds, either.
no...Lewis is not on their table...Lewis is far beyond the stratosphere (both morally and intellectually) of those two.
Lewis did not have a misguided worldview. i'm sure you're saying that just because he's Christian. if you really think he was a good writer then actually take to heart what he says and let him alter your misguided worldview
Lewis would be turning in his grave if he heard you putting him on the same table as those who committed depraved acts which are contrary to Christian doctrine; which both Plato and Aristotle did.
Aristotle and Plato lived prior to the birth of Christianity. How could they have violated a doctrine which didn't exist?
Mount Suribachi
12-31-2004, 14:03
Lewis was a genius and one of the finest Christian writers of the 20th century, if not of all time. His depth of thought, his knowlege and understanding of humanity, his wit and humour, and his ability to clearly and calmly explain Christian beliefs and principles mean that he will continue to be read and enjoyed long after we have departed this mortal coil.
I haven't read all his stuff, but I have on my bookshelf Mere Christianity, Surprised by Joy, The Screwtape Letters and The Great Divorce, all of which are excellent.
As for Lewis and what I know of his beliefs from some of his books - they don't suit me a bit. He is a great writer for Christians who want their belief put into great writing, unfortunately that isn't me at all.
JAG, I suggest that you do pick up one of Lewis's books to see for yourself. Otherwise you are being closed minded, indeed I would go as far as to say you are merely seeking to perpetuate your own predjudices against Christians and Christianity, which seem to be an amalgam of the worst aspects of Ian Paisley, Pat Buchanan, George W Bush and a succession of Medieval popes. If you truly want to be a "seeker of truth" or whatever, or at the very least understand your "enemy", then I suggest you read some C.S.Lewis. The very least it will do is enhance your understanding of a religion which you have a very blinkered view of. You will also find yourself entertained as he is a very good writer and very funny at times.
If you want to understand Christian beliefs, or find out more about them then I would suggest Mere Christianity, and contrary to what you might believe its not 187 pages of "why we hate gays and muslims", indeed Lewis speaks surprisingly little on "sins of the flesh" in his writings.
He has quite a unique power for making theology an attractive, exciting and fascinating quest
If you want a challenging work of fiction that challenges many of this worlds beliefs then I suggest The Great Divorce
Much deserves to be quoted...attractive imagery, amusing satire, exciting speculations...Lewis rouses curiosity about life after death only to sharpen awareness of this world
If you want a very clever, very funny book that also challenges you as an individual and makes you look at yourself and your behaviour then I suggest The Screwtape Letters
The book is sparkling yet truly relevant, in fact a perfect joy
Excellent, hard hitting, challenging, provoking
In fact, I would especially recommend the audio version of the Screwtape Letters (I have it on tape) as Screwtape is played by John Cleese who is perfect for the role and very very funny with it.
Parmenio
12-31-2004, 18:16
I only ever read his Narnia series and SciFi series as a child. Might give his other works a try if they're this good.
Sir Moody
12-31-2004, 18:56
Lewis would be turning in his grave if he heard you putting him on the same table as those who committed depraved acts which are contrary to Christian doctrine; which both Plato and Aristotle did. they did not have great minds, either.
oh dear its plain you need to read up on the history of your own Religeon
During the Middle Ages the church highly supported the works of Plato and Aristotle as well as other Greek (and Roman) students of Philosophy - so much so they suppressed work done by others
Mount I do not criticise and dislike Christianity and religion because of a few of it's members who preach intolerance and contradict vast parts of the bible etc. I dislike it because of all the close minded, numb making, suffering that it has caused. I realise that there have been - minimal - benefits of religion over the years but the present and the past show Christianity to be more dangerous than anything we have ever seen on this earth.
So I do not need to read Lewis, I am sure he was probably a very good writer and used all the 'nice' parts of the bible in the 'nicest' ways to show how great it really is, but I am afraid I know there are people like that, but they tend to not only be the minority but the exception throughout history.
I am not close minded, I get my views and knowledge from experience - like all of us - and I have plenty of experience of religion and religious people, I was brought up with and surrounded by them and did go to a church of England school.
PanzerJaeger
12-31-2004, 20:39
panzer, do you mean Shadowlands?
Yes thats it exactly. ~:)
A very good movie, but dont expect a biopic.
Kaiser of Arabia
12-31-2004, 21:08
Mount I do not criticise and dislike Christianity and religion because of a few of it's members who preach intolerance and contradict vast parts of the bible etc. I dislike it because of all the close minded, numb making, suffering that it has caused. I realise that there have been - minimal - benefits of religion over the years but the present and the past show Christianity to be more dangerous than anything we have ever seen on this earth.
So I do not need to read Lewis, I am sure he was probably a very good writer and used all the 'nice' parts of the bible in the 'nicest' ways to show how great it really is, but I am afraid I know there are people like that, but they tend to not only be the minority but the exception throughout history.
I am not close minded, I get my views and knowledge from experience - like all of us - and I have plenty of experience of religion and religious people, I was brought up with and surrounded by them and did go to a church of England school.
You brining up referance to the Crusades?
Couter attack against the Muslims after they attacked Catholic Spain.
The Inquisition?
The Roman Inquisition was made to search out Heresy in the Church. The Spanish Inquisition was made to get rid of anyone who may be collaberating with the Moors in Spain.
Lets face it Atheism and Islam are the two 'most dangerous' things we have ever seen on earth. The Soviet Union was Atheist (sp? I don't give a damn) and they are viewed as one of the worst regimes in history. The Nazis were, to a lesser degree, atheist as well. Athiesm more than anything else is going to bring the downfall of Organized religion and with that will go all the values and morals on this pathetic speck of a planted. And Anarchy will reign supreme with little babies getting their heads blown off because they aren't exactly as their crackwhore mother wanted them and any signs of good and decency will be destroyed on sight by the insane atheists. I don't care what you say, it has already begun happening, with Abortion being legal throughout the world and gay marraige spreading like the black plague. Organized religion is already under bombardment by orginizations such as the ACLU (Anti Christian Liberals Union, it should be called) and the judges often support it! Need I go on?
You brining up referance to the Crusades?
Couter attack against the Muslims after they attacked Catholic Spain.
The Inquisition?
The Roman Inquisition was made to search out Heresy in the Church. The Spanish Inquisition was made to get rid of anyone who may be collaberating with the Moors in Spain.
Lets face it Atheism and Islam are the two 'most dangerous' things we have ever seen on earth. The Soviet Union was Atheist (sp? I don't give a damn) and they are viewed as one of the worst regimes in history. The Nazis were, to a lesser degree, atheist as well. Athiesm more than anything else is going to bring the downfall of Organized religion and with that will go all the values and morals on this pathetic speck of a planted. And Anarchy will reign supreme with little babies getting their heads blown off because they aren't exactly as their crackwhore mother wanted them and any signs of good and decency will be destroyed on sight by the insane atheists. I don't care what you say, it has already begun happening, with Abortion being legal throughout the world and gay marraige spreading like the black plague. Organized religion is already under bombardment by orginizations such as the ACLU (Anti Christian Liberals Union, it should be called) and the judges often support it! Need I go on?
you know....you really don´t need to spell out on your sig that you´re a redneck.....the sheer amount of stupidity that comes across in your posts makes that clear as day....stating it twice is just overkill really
Kaiser of Arabia
12-31-2004, 21:17
That brings up an interesting point!
If someone has a different view than a liberal he/she is automatically stupid/bigoted!
Check.
That brings up an interesting point!
If someone has a different view than a liberal he/she is automatically stupid/bigoted!
Check.
wrong.....*buzzer goes off*
there are plenty of ppl in these boards that i strongly disagree with but that state their opinion´s in a clear and structured way......you don´t...
Kaiser of Arabia
12-31-2004, 21:24
I wasn't refering strictly to you,
but you did bring up the point.
I disagree with you so I'm a stupid redneck.
When I disagree with JAG I'm a fat stupid bigot.
et cetera et cetera et cetera.
Lewis would be turning in his grave if he heard you putting him on the same table as those who committed depraved acts which are contrary to Christian doctrine; which both Plato and Aristotle did. they did not have great minds, either.
This is an amazing post. In a single sentence there is a complete rejection of the bedrock of the Western Intellectual Tradition.
The judgement on their minds failing to meet the great catergory suggests others would fit this standard better. Who would this be? Is the idea here that a particular religious devotion entails mental acuity or the lack of such devotion implies a cognative failing?
I am not sure I understand the "depraved acts" comment either. If this is a reference to buggery: what is the source for this claim?
LittleGrizzly
12-31-2004, 21:43
The Nazis were, to a lesser degree, atheist as well.
they used religion, christianity to be exact suited it to thier own needs though.
And Anarchy will reign supreme with little babies getting their heads blown off because they aren't exactly as their crackwhore mother wanted them
us aethiests are snatching the guns first remember it'd be more of a hacking, but i don't now any aethiests who support allowing mothers to blow thier babys heads off, maybe you could enlighten me ?
PanzerJaeger
12-31-2004, 22:13
The Nazis were, to a lesser degree, atheist as well.
The Nazis embraced many things, especially early in their rise to power, that they didnt particularly believe in or agree with.
Although i shouldnt have said they were athiests, more like mystics or something.
In any event, i dont think hitler or any of the nazi leaders were praying to Christ, Allah or Buhda. ~;)
Kaiser of Arabia
12-31-2004, 23:41
The Nazis were, to a lesser degree, atheist as well.
they used religion, christianity to be exact suited it to thier own needs though.
And Anarchy will reign supreme with little babies getting their heads blown off because they aren't exactly as their crackwhore mother wanted them
us aethiests are snatching the guns first remember it'd be more of a hacking, but i don't now any aethiests who support allowing mothers to blow thier babys heads off, maybe you could enlighten me ?
It's metaphorical.
PanzerJaeger
01-01-2005, 00:12
you know....you really don´t need to spell out on your sig that you´re a redneck.....the sheer amount of stupidity that comes across in your posts makes that clear as day....stating it twice is just overkill really
Ive seen this type of rhetoric alot from the left on this board recently. Telling someone how stupid they are doesnt make you look any smarter, just immature.
I wasn't refering strictly to you,
but you did bring up the point.
I disagree with you so I'm a stupid redneck.
When I disagree with JAG I'm a fat stupid bigot.
et cetera et cetera et cetera.
Hm? Where have I said you are fat and stupid? News to me.
Capo at the end of the day, when you post things like you do, it doesn't take anyone to point out anything it is blatantly obvious what kind of person you are.
And you did so in that post trying to justify the crusades and inquisitions. 'Nuff said.
Ironside
01-01-2005, 11:02
The Nazis were, to a lesser degree, atheist as well.
The Nazis embraced many things, especially early in their rise to power, that they didnt particularly believe in or agree with.
Although i shouldnt have said they were athiests, more like mystics or something.
In any event, i dont think hitler or any of the nazi leaders were praying to Christ, Allah or Buhda. ~;)
And? I wonder how many leaders in history that didn't prayed to Christ, Allah or Buddha, and how many of them tried not to use the religion to control the population, or even tried to stop the people's beliefs. :thinking2:
That would be most of them. ~D
PanzerJaeger
01-02-2005, 02:26
And what?
My respect for most everybody's ability to reason logically on the board has taken a severe shot to the gut. And I don't even care if you are from the left or the right.
Kaiser of Arabia
01-04-2005, 02:54
Hm? Where have I said you are fat and stupid? News to me.
Capo at the end of the day, when you post things like you do, it doesn't take anyone to point out anything it is blatantly obvious what kind of person you are.
And you did so in that post trying to justify the crusades and inquisitions. 'Nuff said.
PM a while ago. You were probably pissed off and I don't hold it against you.
Gregoshi
01-04-2005, 05:00
To the Backroom veterans: does every thread in this forum end up in the toilet like this one? It seems that the few threads in here that I find interesting always end up like this - petty bickering and mean-spirited sniping. The shame of it is that you all seem like very good people, yet the "discussions" in this forum bring out the worst in many of you. :no: Back to the Monastery for me.
LittleGrizzly
01-04-2005, 07:58
Well some of us seem to be getting everyone annoyed these days, seen as im not to perceptive i haven't got a clue who your getting annoyed at so..if i did it.. sorry greg, lehesu, slyspy and scar.
Rising_General
01-04-2005, 20:34
Lewis would be turning in his grave if he heard you putting him on the same table as those who committed depraved acts which are contrary to Christian doctrine; which both Plato and Aristotle did. they did not have great minds, either. I was not arguing on the basis of doctrine, beliefs, or the acts committed. I was simply comparing the absolute greatness of the mind.
no...Lewis is not on their table...Lewis is far beyond the stratosphere (both morally and intellectually) of those two.
I agree with you on this.
Lewis did not have a misguided worldview. i'm sure you're saying that just because he's Christian. if you really think he was a good writer then actually take to heart what he says and let him alter your misguided worldview
I apologize if i was not clear on that. I agree with Lewis, his writings have transformed my Life, my Worldviews, the way I perceive religion, wile for the first time helping me to be a more compaasionate and empassioned individual
To the Backroom veterans: does every thread in this forum end up in the toilet like this one? It seems that the few threads in here that I find interesting always end up like this - petty bickering and mean-spirited sniping. The shame of it is that you all seem like very good people, yet the "discussions" in this forum bring out the worst in many of you.
I agree completely, look though any of the really engaging and interesting topics and you would think that a bunch of kids were in the playground arguing. I admit I am at fault as well. But Can we not have a intellecual and thought provoking topic without all the mud-slinging?
JS,
Lewis writing about stereotypes.
A stereotyped image can obliterate a man's own exsperince
I didn't know CS Lewis wrote anything other than Nania... Now they were weird.
*runs off to library*
Originally Posted by Navaros
Originally Posted by Navaros
no...Lewis is not on their table...Lewis is far beyond the stratosphere (both morally and intellectually) of those two.
I agree with you on this.
Rising_General
Explain this.
Adrian II
01-05-2005, 19:12
I agree with Lewis, his writings have transformed my Life, my Worldviews, the way I perceive religion, wile for the first time helping me to be a more compaasionate and empassioned individual.I have never read a word written by C.S. Lewis. Even though I am not religious, your posts convince me that this is a serious shortcoming on my part. I have read other religious writers with the utmost interest. Reinhold Niebuhr's Moral Man and Immoral Society for instance was a huge eye-opener to me; I never looked at the world the same way again after reading that book.
I'll have a look around my fav 2nd hand book shop, see if I can find some Lewis. Thanks for the tip, Rising General, and a good thing that discovering Lewis has meant so much for you!
I have never read a word written by C.S. Lewis. Even though I am not religious, your posts convince me that this is a serious shortcoming on my part. I have read other religious writers with the utmost interest. Reinhold Niebuhr's Moral Man and Immoral Society for instance was a huge eye-opener to me; I never looked at the world the same way again after reading that book.
I'll have a look around my fav 2nd hand book shop, see if I can find some Lewis. Thanks for the tip, Rising General, and a good thing that discovering Lewis has meant so much for you!
Lewis is one of the most popular Twentieth Century apologists for Christ in the English speaking world. He was a lawyer, Cambridge Professor and friend of Tolkein: being part of the same book club. Lewis was an atheist through his younger years who eventually rejected it for a theist view. Then at mid-life he turned to Christianity and felt compelled to defend it against secularist/humanist assaults. Aside from The Screwtape Letters you may want to begin with Mere Christianity. Both are popular titles.
Adrian II
01-06-2005, 11:09
Aside from The Screwtape Letters you may want to begin with Mere Christianity.Thanks, I can use some guidance since Lewis appears to have written dozens of books.
I found an entry for Clive Staples Lewis in my Fontana Dictionary of Modern Thinkers where it says, among other things: 'The Screwtape Letters presents with great skill and humour the tactics of an older devil instructing a younger in the art of tempting an individual soul, and ultimately failing.'
I love that. Sounds good indeed! ~;)
I have always found religious thinkers and novelists inspiring in many ways. Among novelists there 's a fine (though nowadays practically obscure) gem by the name of François Mauriac, a French Catholic writer whose existentialst themes and social convictions appealed to me when I read him at school.
For nearly every secular philosophy there have been religious predecessors. For instance St. Augustin's writings already contain the intellectual and moral core of phenomenology and existentialism. And a man like Kierkegaard was not afraid to confront the anguish and uncertainty that must befall every believer sooner or later as he becomes aware of his fallability and mortal weakness. Believers and non-believers are all 'seekers', except for a handful of extremists with closed minds.
Rising_General
01-06-2005, 20:52
Believers and non-believers are all 'seekers', except for a handful of extremists with closed minds.
Well said... very well said. There is is a quote from lewis in one of his books titled Miracles At the time I read it,and yet still it rings a truth that was both copious in my own life and in stoping and looking around me, its in the hearts and minds of many people around me.
It is always shocking to meet life where we thought we were alone. "Look out!" we cry, "It's alive " And therefore this is the very point at which so many draw back- I would have done so myself if i could-and proceed no further with Christianity. An "Impersonal God"- well and good. A subjective God of beauty, truth and goodness, inside our own heads- better still. A formless life-force surging through us, a vast power which we can tap- best of all. But God Himself,alive,pulling at the other end of the cord,perhaps approaching at an infinite speed,the hunter,king,husband-that is quite another matter. There come a moment when the children who have been playing at burglars hush suddenly:was that a real footstep in the hall? There comes a moment when people who have been dabbling in religion ("Man's search for God!") suddenly draw back. Supposing we real found Him? We neve meant it to come to that! Worse still, supposing He has found us?
Miracles chap. 11, p. 94
There is a wealth of knowledge and complex- yet simply stated truth's ringing throughout his works,
I have always found religious thinkers and novelists inspiring in many ways. Among novelists there 's a fine (though nowadays practically obscure) gem by the name of François Mauriac, a French Catholic writer whose existentialst themes and social convictions appealed to me when I read him at school.
I have never heard of him however you have definitely sparked my interest, is there a particular one of his works I should start with?
JS,
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill
Adrian II
01-06-2005, 22:53
Oops, double post...
Adrian II
01-06-2005, 22:58
http://associationmauriac.free.fr/sitemauriac/port2_mauriac.jpghttp://nobelprize.org/literature/laureates/1952/mauriac.gifhttp://www.academie-francaise.fr/images/immortels/portraits/mauriac.jpg
I have never heard of him however you have definitely sparked my interest, is there a particular one of his works I should start with?Mauriac made all the right choices in his life, a true honnête homme (honourable man) in the best French tradition. In his books he didn't shy away from crime, sex, deviation, anything and everything that is human whether we like it or not. In the thirties, unlike many French Catholics he was vehemently opposed to all forms of fascism and authoritarianism. During WWII he wrote a pamphlet against the nazi's and had to hide for the rest of the war. Later he sided with De Gaulle on the subject of Algerian independence.
My first and favourite book of his was Le baiser au lépreux (1922) which has been translated as The Kiss to the Leper. But you can take your pick here (http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/mauriac.htm) because he has written so much. The Vipers' Nest is also good, some of his Bloc-notes (Notebooks) are also fine - but oh dear, if only I could point you to recent, available translations.
For me, however... You wanna know what's weird? I read and speak English, German and French like most educated Dutchmen have done for centuries. But English has become so dominant that most baby-boomers and younger people only really learned English as a foreign language. If they read French or German books, they read them in Dutch or English translations. Nowadays more and more people of the old generation are dying and their French and German books are dumped in second hand bookshops. Second hand bookshops where a certain AdrianII, who reads both languages, has been having field days for oh, at least the past fifteen years or so. The more they die, the more AdrianII completes his Proust, Döblin, Fallada...
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.Fine chunk of Mill there. George Orwell has also written excellent passages on the subject of senseless pacifism around the beginning of WW II. You know, I just remembered a Mauriac-quote from that site: 'There is no accident in our choice of reading. All our sources are related.'
Hehe... :book:
(Man, I wish more threads were like this one)
Mount Suribachi
03-31-2005, 19:54
Adrian, out of curiousity, did you find and read any Lewis?
I jumped out of this thread (and the Org) for a month or so as I was so angry/upset when someone called Christianity the most dangerous thing ever seen on Earth, and then it degenerated into the usual Tavern mudslinging so I missed your interest being piqued on page 2.
Am curious as to how you got on :book:
Adrian II
03-31-2005, 20:27
Adrian, out of curiousity, did you find and read any Lewis?
I jumped out of this thread (and the Org) for a month or so as I was so angry/upset when someone called Christianity the most dangerous thing ever seen on Earth, and then it degenerated into the usual Tavern mudslinging so I missed your interest being piqued on page 2.
Am curious as to how you got on :book:Hey, that's funny, in my memory the thread was much longer. That must be because it 'piqued my interest' I guess. Anyway I read a lot of on-line stuff about Lewis after that, and I discovered he has many fans. I'm afraid he'll never turn me into a Catholic though, I think I lack the gene for that.
But his books are very hard to get here. As usual, I'll wait for the right people to die on me. I'll happen upon the books during one of my poaching tours in second hand bookshops. I often do this with older authors whose works are rare, or not particularly hot or popular.
It'll happen sometime this year, I'm sure. I can feel it. On some shelf in Amsterdam, Amersfoort or Utrecht, filled with books left behind by a deceased Dutch fan of Clive's, I will find either Miracles or The Screwtape Letters. I'll buy it for two euro's and read it in a cafe across the road over a capuccino or two, three cigarettes and a look up some girl's skirt. Lewis wouldn't mind, he was a humanist. ~;)
Mount Suribachi
03-31-2005, 23:20
Apologies for "doing a Pindar" on you in advance ~D
I'm afraid he'll never turn me into a Catholic though, I think I lack the gene for that.
Thats not a bad thing, we wouldn't want you to become one of those heretics catholics on us ~;) We want you to be a solid, upstanding Protestant! :book:
But his books are very hard to get here
Really surprised about that, as all my copies of his books are modern re-prints. But then again, I bought them from Christian bookshops and I guess there aren't that many of them in Amsterdam, and that the ones that there might be, you wouldn't frequent :book:
As usual, I'll wait for the right people to die on me. I'll happen upon the books during one of my poaching tours in second hand bookshops. I often do this with older authors whose works are rare, or not particularly hot or popular.
Whilst appreciating your romantic style of buying books (hey, I picked picked up a copy of C.V.Wedgewoods The Thirty Years War in a charity shop in York last month and was well chuffed about getting this 1930s classic) if you ever feel the inclination to buy books the cheap and dirty way then wesleyowen.com are the best UK source for Christian books and they'll have everything Lewis your heart could desire. In the meantime, how about I write into my will that if I die, you get all my C.S.Lewis books? ~:cool:
The Screwtape Letters.
As I said on page 1, I really really recommend getting hold of the audio version read by John Cleese who is absolutely perfect in the role of Screwtape. Very, very funny.
and a look up some girl's skirt
lol ~D Actually, Lewis wasn't that big on sexual sin for various reasons. One of which was that it was an area that he never really struggled with, so didn't feel qualified to talk much about it. He focuses much more on the foibles of the human character - anger, jealousy, envy, snobbery, pride and general mean-ness. His insight into human beings is remarkable.
Anyway, hope you find that book soon :book:
Duke of Gloucester
04-01-2005, 09:11
Lewis would be turning in his grave if he heard you putting him on the same table as those who committed depraved acts which are contrary to Christian doctrine; which both Plato and Aristotle did. they did not have great minds, either.
Can someone who has read "Screwtape Letters" recently help me out here? Doesn't Screwtape approve of a move away from Plato and Aristotle towards more modern philosophers? I am sure this means that Lewis approved of these two and might feel flattered to be grouped with them.
Adrian II
04-01-2005, 10:16
Thats not a bad thing, we wouldn't want you to become one of those heretics catholics on us ~;) We want you to be a solid, upstanding Protestant! :book:Actually as a Dutchman I do have the genes for that. Calvinism is deeply ingrained in our culture, more than most want to admit. Even the Catholics here are Protestants at heart, they demand the right to think for themselves, follow their conscience and split up into separate congregations that each have their own thoughts about Christ (and about Rome). Even agnostics and atheists in The Netherlands show all the hallmarks of the old tradition and familiar themes of Calvinism. Our Greens for instance, although they would deny it, are in their 'modern' way preaching against the old Calvinist sins of waste, ostentatious wealth, usury, sloth... Speaking of Wedgewood, a great read. I bought the old, fluffy Pelican copy in a 2nd hand bookshop in the seventies when I mastered in History. That's when I developed my bookshop routine: little money, voracious reading habits. The capuccino's are an add-on from the time I earned my first salary. ~:)
I think I'll pay a visit to that little Christian bookshop I know in a neighbourhood called 'De Jordaan' (named after the river Jordan) though. Hmm, Tuesday afternoon looks good..
Edit
I suddenly realise why I associated Lewis with Catholicism; it's because I confused him with G.K. Chesterton with whom he is often compared by essayists and on various websites.
Paul Peru
04-01-2005, 10:52
The Roman Inquisition was made to search out Heresy in the Church.
That makes it OK, then? Different beliefs justify persecution? I'd say there'll be plenty of work for a new inquisition round about now.
Lets face it Atheism and Islam are the two 'most dangerous' things we have ever seen on earth. The Soviet Union was Atheist (sp? I don't give a damn) and they are viewed as one of the worst regimes in history.
well, that proves it, then. :dizzy2:
Unless one delusional world view wins out, which seems unlikely, atheism is the only way to get all humans to coexist peacefully. Add some decency and values, and you've got humanism. It's actually possible to have values and act morally without fear of eternal damnation as a motivator.
Athiesm more than anything else is going to bring the downfall of Organized religion
I wish I could think it likely and imminent ~:)
any signs of good and decency will be destroyed on sight by the insane atheists. I don't care what you say, it has already begun happening, with Abortion being legal throughout the world and gay marraige spreading like the black plague........Need I go on?
No, I'm already ROFL. You may take a rest and some medication.
If you want a very clever, very funny book that also challenges you as an individual and makes you look at yourself and your behaviour then I suggest The Screwtape Letters
That's exactly what I want, so I'll give it a try. I may report back with some reflections on it later.
As an eye-opener for the religious folks, I recommend Cosmos, Chaos and the World to Come by Norman Cohn. It doesn't preach at all, it's just an immensely readable scientific work on religious history.
http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/Viewbook.asp?isbn=0300065515
Adrian II
04-01-2005, 11:50
As an eye-opener for the religious folks, I recommend Cosmos, Chaos and the World to Come by Norman Cohn. It doesn't preach at all, it's just an immensely readable scientific work on religious history.
http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/Viewbook.asp?isbn=0300065515Is that Norman 'The Pursuit of the Millennium' Cohn? Then it must be worthwhile.
Teutonic Knight
04-01-2005, 16:16
Lewis would be turning in his grave if he heard you putting him on the same table as those who committed depraved acts which are contrary to Christian doctrine; which both Plato and Aristotle did. they did not have great minds, either.
no...Lewis is not on their table...Lewis is far beyond the stratosphere (both morally and intellectually) of those two.
Lewis did not have a misguided worldview. i'm sure you're saying that just because he's Christian. if you really think he was a good writer then actually take to heart what he says and let him alter your misguided worldview
Your hubris amazes me once again. If you could just get off your proud high horse for enough time to think about what you say, then maybe you could allow someone to change your perverted worldview. You have crossed the boundary from simply patronizing to outright proud heckling. I find your style of comment sickening in the greatest degree. To hold your own opinion is fine, but to patronize another person because they hold an opinion separate from your own is simply unacceptable behavior for a civilized individual.
Not only are your positions completely unsupported by facts, but you continue by mocking another person who you think disagrees with you. I would enjoy some type of explanation for your claims the Lewis is "beyond the stratosphere" of Plato and Aristotle. If you cannot explain the reason you believe something, then keep your mouth shut.
Mount Suribachi
04-01-2005, 18:29
Ahhh, isn't this thread the very best and the very worst of the backroom? ~:handball:
Regarding G.K.Chesterton, he is one of those Christian writers who, like Lewis, is a favourite quote supplier for christian writers and preachers, yet is nowhere near as widely read - I certainly have none of his books, though I do know several of his quotes ~;)
Adrian II
04-01-2005, 19:01
Regarding G.K.Chesterton, he is one of those Christian writers who, like Lewis, is a favourite quote supplier for christian writers and preachers, yet is nowhere near as widely read - I certainly have none of his books, though I do know several of his quotes ~;)Know what you mean -- a bit like the G.B. Shaw of Catholicism.
~;)
Apologies for "doing a Pindar" on you in advance ~D
Stay away from that guy, he's a loon.
I picked picked up a copy of C.V.Wedgewoods The Thirty Years War in a charity shop... :book:
Me too...interesting.
Regarding G.K.Chesterton,
Regarding that regard, I think Chesterton's quotes have outlasted his name in the States. I think few who have heard his words know the source.
Rising_General
04-11-2005, 16:29
I think Chesterton's quotes have outlasted his name in the States. I think few who have heard his words know the source
Yes I have have heard G.K Chesterson quoted many times however I have never read any of his works.
I have as of late been researching not the works of Lewis but the man himself. He really was a man of incredible intellect. He was a leading advocate for atheism before he began his own personal journey of faith. In my search I have started to read many of the works that Lewis himself was transformed and inspired by.( I just finished Voltaires Candide) Although I still have to locate some of Chesteron's works. He is a very intriguing man and one of whom I hope to learn alot from as far as his study habits. Love for literature, and his incredible ability to debate not by brash insults and statements but with deep questions.
Oh and I just stumbled upon this today. They are making the Chronicles of Narnia into a movie or at least The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe
http://www.narnia.com/ I guess I will have to go dig through my bookshelf and find them. it has been over ten years since I have read them.
JS,
No matter how rich you become, how famous or powerful, when you die the size of your funeral will still pretty much depend on the weather.
-Michael Pritchard
Adrian II
04-11-2005, 16:47
I have as of late been researching not the works of Lewis but the man himself.That reminds me...
*thinks of Christian bookshop*
Adrian II
05-07-2005, 00:45
That reminds me...
*thinks of Christian bookshop*The shop is closed forever, or so it says on the note in the window next to the (second- or third-hand) crucifix.
This is not a coincidence, this is a personal affront. I am resolved that a bookshopping expedition to the old bishopric of Utrecht will settle the matter to my satisfaction. Horses are saddled in my court, plans are being laid, last goodbye's murmured amid the din of armour, whinnying and thunderous commands.
On to Utrecht, men! :charge:
The shop is closed forever, or so it says on the note in the window next to the (second- or third-hand) crucifix.
This is not a coincidence, this is a personal affront. I am resolved that a bookshopping expedition to the old bishopric of Utrecht will settle the matter to my satisfaction. Horses are saddled in my court, plans are being laid, last goodbye's murmured amid the din of armour, whinnying and thunderous commands.
On to Utrecht, men! :charge:
This is funny. It reminds me of an old dusty bookshop I found in Kyoto: three floors of solid philosophy texts and nothing else. I've never found any standing building to match it anywhere. Bloody expensive as I recall too.
Adrian II
05-08-2005, 13:22
This is funny. It reminds me of an old dusty bookshop I found in Kyoto: three floors of solid philosophy texts and nothing else. I've never found any standing building to match it anywhere. Bloody expensive as I recall too.The French have these chain bookshops called FNAC. Inside they look like book cathedrals, with choirs full of casheers and with countless altars for different publishing houses. I once visited one north of Paris which consisted of five huge floors, and after ten minutes I just gave up trying to figure out all they had on offer. You'd need to pack a rucksack and food for three days (not to mention a loaded credit card) to survive in there. There's one in Antwerp that is actually built on a human scale. It's close to the central station (down Keizerlei, stick to the right) and I never fail to drop by on my way to or from Brussels.
The French have these chain bookshops called FNAC. Inside they look like book cathedrals, with choirs full of casheers and with countless altars for different publishing houses. I once visited one north of Paris which consisted of five huge floors, and after ten minutes I just gave up trying to figure out all they had on offer. You'd need to pack a rucksack and food for three days (not to mention a loaded credit card) to survive in there. There's one in Antwerp that is actually built on a human scale. It's close to the central station (down Keizerlei, stick to the right) and I never fail to drop by on my way to or from Brussels.
There are massive bookstores in the States as well. If I remember right, there is a Barnes & Noble bookstore in NY that is 7 stories high.
Rising_General
05-10-2005, 02:05
There are massive bookstores in the States as well. If I remember right, there is a Barnes & Noble bookstore in NY that is 7 stories high.
It is a thing of glory to behold... Its a touch of heaven here on Gods green earth.
JS,
A good novel tells us the truth about it's hero; but a bad novel tells us the truth about its author. - G.K Chesterson
Adrian II
05-10-2005, 08:04
There are massive bookstores in the States as well. If I remember right, there is a Barnes & Noble bookstore in NY that is 7 stories high.A girlfriend of mine nearly got lost in a monstrous second-hand bookshop in Portland, Oregon; a former factory building or something, where the books were stacked all the way up to the ceiling, under the old sinks and workbenches, in lockera and cupboards, et cetera. Imagine the atmosphere of an industrial monument filled with hundreds of thousands of books, covering the walls like weeds and mosses..
A girlfriend of mine nearly got lost in a monstrous second-hand bookshop in Portland, Oregon; a former factory building or something, where the books were stacked all the way up to the ceiling, under the old sinks and workbenches, in lockera and cupboards, et cetera. Imagine the atmosphere of an industrial monument filled with hundreds of thousands of books, covering the walls like weeds and mosses..
Kinda gives one the shivers doesn't it.
The thing about the Kyoto bookstore was its focus: three floors of nothing but philo texts stuck in an obscure corner of the city surrounded by wisteria and lilacs.
Adrian II
05-10-2005, 11:20
Kinda gives one the shivers doesn't it.Yes, but in a pleasant way. I love industrial monuments just like I love ancient ruins and remains. When you ever get the chance to take a walk around Brussels, try and visit the old canal zone. Belgium was the second European nation to see a genuine industrial revolution (first half on the nineteenth century) and the canal was a major artery for the heavy industry around Brussels. Most of the old (I almost said 'ancient') factories, emplacements, railroads and cranes along it are in a state of elegant decay, creating beautiful and bizarre landscapes with trees growing out of discarded train waggons, burnt-out halls sporting a surrealist variety of rusty-red colours, off-set by fresh green bouts of 'new' jungle. Two Belgian writers did a walk along the canal and wrote a book about it in which they described the buildings and sites they found as otherwordly life-forms taking over the city. Great stuff. I'm sure the U.S. has such industrial mass graves; in Philadelphia for instance they must have lots of similar zones.
Yes, but in a pleasant way. I love industrial monuments just like I love ancient ruins and remains. When you ever get the chance to take a walk around Brussels, try and visit the old canal zone. Belgium was the second European nation to see a genuine industrial revolution (first half on the nineteenth century) and the canal was a major artery for the heavy industry around Brussels. Most of the old (I almost said 'ancient') factories, emplacements, railroads and cranes along it are in a state of elegant decay, creating beautiful and bizarre landscapes with trees growing out of discarded train waggons, burnt-out halls sporting a surrealist variety of rusty-red colours, off-set by fresh green bouts of 'new' jungle. Two Belgian writers did a walk along the canal and wrote a book about it in which they described the buildings and sites they found as otherwordly life-forms taking over the city. Great stuff. I'm sure the U.S. has such industrial mass graves; in Philadelphia for instance they must have lots of similar zones.
I've been there. Last go around was while I was working my way toward Warterloo. All monuments to the past are interesting, particularly if your a fellow who grew up in a town with a sign at its border that reads: "settled in 1848". ~:)
Rising_General
05-12-2005, 00:14
Great stuff. I'm sure the U.S. has such industrial mass graves; in Philadelphia for instance they must have lots of similar zones.
There are remnants of them in nearly every major US city. I known I have walked though some ruff areas of chicago... they can be mesmerizing, almost poetic if one takes the time to look at them. However more often than not these graveyards are in the ruff areas, causing one to not stay long. Although,I am sure that this differs everywhere. that was just my exsperince in Chicago. Now in minneapolis they have renovated several of these buildings into shops or upscale penthouses. they are really quite breathtaking.
J.S,
There are three forms of visual art: Painting is art to look at, sculpture is art you can walk around, and architecture is art you can walk through"
-- Dan Rice
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