The Mythology Mod rises again!

[Bwian]

Assuming Silver Rusher is Ok with this, I would like to re-awaken this mod, and make it happen!

The plan is as follows:

A staged release of replacement 'Nation Packs' covering areas of classical and/or usable mythological creatures. Humans will feature, largely in terms of the Greeks. Their pantheon of Gods and mythology is one of the richer in terms of classival mythology, but I will not limit myself to merely that. If it fits and is balanced, I will use it.

I have already built up a set of skeleton warriors, including archers and mounted troops. This gives me a rough start, and has given me the chance to prove that I CAN make something.

Next, I want to work on some centaurs. These I have already begun to work on, using a revised ' mount' which lacks a head. I will then try to add in a vharacter model with no legs. The tricky part will be whether or not I can move the base location of the model without messing up the animation.

Planned are:

Skeleton / Undead
Centaurs
Amazons
Trolls
Ogres
Goblins and relatives
Dwarves
Demons ( lots of scope here! )
Barbarians
Chaos marauders

And any other fantasy / mythological race or characters which my fancy.

Each race will initially be built up specifically for single battles, with a campaign being a possibility once I understand the necesary factors and can design specific buildings / infastructure to support them. I will aim to replace one race at a time and plan to release them as 'Nation Packs'

These packs should be self-contained sets of units, plus amendments to the necessary files which will allow these races to completely replace an existing race. Hopefully, by doing it this way, I will reduce the overall burden and make it possible to release elements of the mod as I go along!

Well....thats the plan :D

For progress to date, check out my 'first modelling attempt' thread in 'general'.

Skeleton base unit, skeleton sword warrior, skeleton archer complete.
Skeleton cavalry mount modelled / textured
Skeleton riders underway.

To do:

Skeleton axeman
Skeleton spearman
Skeleton unit commander
Cataphract mount
Banner
unit cards

I also need to do some work on the stats. My assumption of the way these units would work is to have them basically unroutable ..... as long as the general lives. As soon as the unit leader goes down, the whole lot will run. This is meant to signify the loss of 'control' of these dead warriors.

In accordance with the advice on design documents etc. this information will soon be available, and a website will be set up to showcase the mod. I need to clear out some webspace first! Soon as that is done, I will post a link!

Any and all input, suggestions, advice gratefully received!

[hoggy]

excellent stuff Bwain looking forward to it. for your centaurs the coordinates for rider offset are in descr_mounts. Just tweak this to position your top half. Good luck.

[Bwian]

Thanks for the tip Hoggy :) That saved me a lot of messing about!

[Sundjata Keita]

This looks a very interesting mod, I like your skeleton warriors a lot. There are a few things I would like to know:-


Who will be the senate faction? I would suggest having three demon armies and a leader army
If you make a campaign will it be entirely fictional or based on a part of the world?
Will it contain giant avatars like the other mod was going to?
Do you need any help? I am happy to help with this mod (can't do scripting though)


The amazon army sounds really interesting and I was wondering whether this would contain realistic units as well as fictional ones, if so I might be able to help there as well.

P.S. Who are the goblins relatives? Could these be used as the senate factions in a campaign

[Bwian]

I am not 100% sure about the 'Senate' equivalent.

Demons are a possibility, as are high priests, Sorcerors or some such. I need to think about that. Maybe they could represent the classical Roman Gods

As far as a campaign map goes, I will start off using the original map. I haven't got to grips with the necessary steps invovled to make a fully functional map, so I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it!! Ultimately, I would like to have a fully fictional map. I don;t see it as a top priority though. First off, I need units that balance well and provide a good battle :D

Giant Avatars would be great..... if they are possible. I would like to represent the general as something a bit special!

Lastly...help is always welcome!!!! I will sit down this weekend and draw up a more formal 'design document' with some more detailed lists of what needs building. Meantime... if you want to start work on a set of Amazon troops...then go for it :D I will definitely be wanting them in the finished lineup! Drop me a PM and let me know what sort of lineup you had in mind for the 'ladies'.

[the fury]

what about, greek: manatuars, hydras, colosseus
norse: fire giants, ice giants, moutain giants
egyption: anubis, ill come back to more stuff, i cant think of all the cool stuff off the top of my head

[Al Khalifah]

Will this mod feature mythological type Greek/Human factions? I'm thinking maybe Troy could be a human faction.
Will any elements of Homer's epics be used for monsters in this mod? The cyclopes, the laestragones etc.

[Belatucadros]

well if you use gods for generals and you have a celtic faction(which you should) then Belatucadros would be a good name for a general because he was the god of war comparable to mars(i can give you more if you need)

[Bwian]

OK ... Gods for Generals might be a bit of a problem. I was giving this some thought, and I realised that the game mechanics assumes the faction leaders die.... Not a common practice for Gods. ( some do.... Osiris, Dumuzi and several other linked Myths invovle Gods dying and being reborn... )

I would need to be able to infinitely extend their lifespan somehow. Can this be done?

Anyway.... On the progress front, I have begun work on the website and the design document is growing steadily.

Additional SKeleton Army units have been put in game, and I now have skeleton spearmen, and 2 sorts of cavalry mount done. Next on the building front comes a selection of more heavily armoured undead warriors. These I have modelled but not yet textured. I also plan to adapt the textures for the Druid stock model to form a 'leader' unit for the undead soldiers. Ultimately, they will be fearsome warriors, but with very uncertain 'morale' to reflect the difficulty in controlling and directing summoned lifeless corpses ( I know...I work for the UK Post Office so I have some experience along those lines ;) )

Once I have the unit lineup a bit more concrete, simmoned creatures like these will possibly be used as a Mercenary faction. Troops that any side can hire.

[Belatucadros]

Well you could probly change the message that says you leader has died and say your leader has left.

for example the god got so betten(or tired instead of old) that he decided to go back to heaven or werever he lives in shame and pass the torch to his heir.

well thats my input just tell me if i am getting annoying ~D

[Silver Rusher]

Yeah, this is all fine. I was already working on another mod, so the mythology mod I was planning to make would have taken up too much of my time.

[Belatucadros]

possible faction could be barbarian(celts)

They would have many units already in rome
*druids, maybe the could shoot fire or something
*wovles could be remodelled from dogs
*fanatics
*beserkers
*warband
*banshees
*Gaints

Your units look very good and i really hope this mod gets done :medievalcheers:

[Belatucadros]

ohh i guess i missed that you had already planned on doing barbarians,
Well anyways i still think those could be some good units

sorry about doble post, but i cant edit :furious3: (if only i was a full member) ~;)

[the fury]

goblins do not belong in mythology, you should have people factions with some special units. like the greeks, trojans, norse, egyption, and just have them all have special units like centaurs, giants, anubis, and other such creatures

[Bwian]

Goblins don't belong in Mytholgoy.....er....beg to differ there :D

They don't belong in classical Greek Mythology, nor Roman, but Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Redcaps, and a whole host of other beasties populate the Northern European mythology.

Just to lay things out a little clearer :D

The plan is, to have each faction largely human based. There will be a core set of human units to represent the ordinary folks. Greek Hoplites, Roman legions etc. There may not be as many base units, since I am certainly going to have to pinch a few to make myth soldiers.

Each city will get one building that is able to 'recruit' or train these myth units. Hence you would get a Greek city raising an army of centaurs, or an egyptian city sending out Sphinx cavalry with a bunch of Jackal headed support troops. If I can swing it, ideally, these units should operate in the same way that Mercenaries do in the stock game. They are not dependant on populations etc to support, but are costly. At the moment, though, plans are being slightly thwarted by an inability to make larger than human sized units. Cyclops, Giants, Trolls and Ogres are needed to back up the selection...and this just isn't happening.

If I can't do this, my current unit plan goes out the window and a major re-think becomes necessary.

If I REALLY can't do the big boys.... I have a backup plan.

[hoggy]

Looking forward to this mod, sounds excellent! Vercingetorix was looking into the scaling problem at one point. I got stuck at the same point as you. I'm hoping either Vercingetorix comes up with a simple solution to creating completely new skeletons or CA releases a patch which makes skeleton.txt work (currently no effect in game). crossing fingers as it affects Blue Lotus, METW etc and a number of other mods too. Would be great to see those giant cyclops units!

[Bwian]

Hoggy... I have sent Vercingetorix a lengthy PM and posted a few bits and pieces over at TWCenter ...

He has gone through the steps I outlined, and got the same results. This is good news for us all...he wasn't aware that there was an issue around trying to re-size or relocate pivot points in a skeleton. He thought that the pivots could be moved in the CAS file and that the animation would then be applied to that correctly. As we found.....soemthing else steps in the way...and that has to be something in the skeleton.dat file.

Vercingetorix is going to investigate it :D

He knows more about this than anyone else...and I am hopeful he can crack it. Being able to scale a skeleton would be good....but being able to reposition a joint would be even better! Scaling would allow us to use the one biped and 3 quadraped skeletons to do most of what we need...with a bit of imagination...but a whole new skeleton arrangement would open up so many possibilities!

Whatever....the right man is on the case :D I got my fingers crossed!!!!

[hoggy]

Top stuff! keep us posted.

[Bwian]

Progress Update:

Skeleton units are done, and have gone out for testing. Final roundup included:

Basic skeleton 'peasant'
skeleton archer
skeleton spearman
skeleton swordsman
mounted skeleton on skeleton horse
mounted knight skeleton on skeleton horse

I also through together a ghostly standard bearer :)

Initial centaur model has now been done. Needs minor tweaking to smooth out the join. It also has a rather unpleasant 'death' since the human and horse part end up seperated..... I can deal with this. But it still looks a bit messy :D

Also tried out the MkI Cyclops :D He needs a lot more work to look how I want him to, since I want to mess about with the proportions a little. At around 10' tall, he's an imposing chap :D

[Bwian]

Little bit of progress to report today:

Having completed the Skeleton's and a quick 'standard bearer' unit for them, I have moved on to the next phase.

First up, we have a VERY rough go at making a big unit... the Ogre.

http://publish.hometown.aol.co.uk/johnpalmer04/images/ogre.jpg

Textures are dreadfully rough, and the mapping has got screwed up at some point in the conversion ( need to solve this one.... ) and the model needs some tweaking to animate well...but he is BIG

Also on the building bloks are the Centaurs. This is the 'base' model. An armoured version is planned, along with an archer and possibly one or two others.

http://publish.hometown.aol.co.uk/johnpalmer04/images/centaur.jpg

[RedSilver]

Bwian your doing some great work, I wish you all the best.

P.S those centaur are coming along great, and the troll is funny, but I can just invision the finshed one, Rawr!

good luck.

[soibean]

yea the idea is great and so far your first attempts look decent
if you smooth out the textures it could be beautiful

[shifty157]

the skins could use some smoothing but this mod looks like its off to a very nice start. Keep up the good work.

[shifty157]

Just wondering but would it be possible to make an entirely new skeleton and animations for the centaur? So you wouldnt have to try and work around the problem by mounting a human torso onto a headless horse. Its worth a look into.

[hoggy]

looking good Bwian, the distortion in the textures occurs when you have one vertice with two lots of UVs. You need to go into element mode and check each element is completely seperate from the polys around it - I tend to drag it away as a test, then undo. Each texture projection/set of uvs should be it's own element ie be seperate from the polys of the next. hope this helps

[Bwian]

I think I know what I did wrong. I don't actually model/UV map in Max. I only use it as a necessary evil for low poly modelling ;) When I imported this one, already mapped, I applied the skin modifier and rigged it all up so I was happy with the result. Then...I noticed some vertex anomalies. It seemed I had some duplicate verts from the import.... so I set the vertex threshold and 'wel d selected'

I think I done wrong ;)

That would create shared vertices along every 'join' on the UV mapping. If I had left alone, it would have been fine :dizzy2:

Will re-do that one. The texture I painted up was rough anyway! I never was much good with Photoshop when it came to people texturing! I prefer more solid objects ~D

Still....it proved the effectiveness of Vercingetorix's modified tool. It also looked REALLY sweet when the big green guy whacked down some peasants with his club ~:cool:

Anyway.. at present, we can't actually create a whole new skeleton. This is something that is still being looked at, I hope! We CAN scale the existing ones, and fit the mesh to it. You need to keep the body mesh in reasonable propertions, but you can scale up the thickness of the limbs. I need to improve the mesh around some of the joints to smooth the animation...and learn to paint skin :book:

[Myrddraal]

Bwain, I think the human half of the centaurs should start lower down. Their torso is too thin. Make the human waist start where the strap is on the horses.

[Bwian]

Yep...Centaur needs a bit of work in that department.

This was just a rough first go to make sure I could do it. The next version will have a proper custom built mesh, rathe than a quick modification of the base horse and human.

I had trouble with the fine alignment of the horse and rider parts, which required some flexibility in the join area. The tapering you can see was partly as a result of this. As I get better at fine alignment of mesh for horse and rider, this will get neater :charge:

[Bwian]

Some new chaps lining up for a scrap....as Goblins should.

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/johnpalmer04/gob1.jpg


Angered by one to many 'goblin' jokes.... they take swift and bloody revenge.

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/johnpalmer04/gob2.jpg

[shifty157]

Those guys look hilarious. Nicely done.

[BassV2]

OH SHIT NICE!

do you need help? I would like to!

[Sundjata Keita]

is it me or are their swords the same colour as their skin?

Anyway nice units, I think you should have their animations the same as barbarian infantry where they jump up in the air, that would look really cool on tiny units.

For the centaurs you could do a texture effect on the body using a smudge tool to blend the horse and his skin together. A bit like a transition from one to the other, then there wouldn't be such a sudden change.

Also what are you going to make the officers look like? because I think they reuse the officers a lot and you wouldn't want a skeleton officer leading goblins etc.

Good luck with the mod

[Bwian]

The texture on the Goblin is still at an early stage. I basically coloured the whole thing and then did some work to pick out the details. I hadn't done the sword texture when I did the screenshots :) It's sorted now.

I need to do some re-working of the UV map though for the warrior versions.... I haven't left enough space on the UV map for a shield ~:)

As far as helping out with the Mod goes, I am always open to help! What can you do?

Currently, the mod team consists of Me, doing 3D and general concept stuff, with RustyNail456 ( aka Frans Uberdork ) doing texture work, playtesting and unit balancing and generally coming up with tons of other suggestions and ideas to keep the inspiration flowing ~:)

I have another solution for the Centaurs :) Since the models have to be seperate ( until we can make shole new skeletons and animations ) matching the textures has proved to be damn near impossible. To get a perfect match you would have to have an almost featureless area between the two, or else differences in texture size and detail will always show up. My solution will be to make a 3D mesh thick belt and loincloth arrangement on the horse end, which will give a natural join. The body section will then sit partially through this. It looks 'horsey' enough and comes with some other benefits. Change the texture to chainmail, and then add armour to the body, and you have a Centaur warrior ~;)

edit: Officers....no, I won't re-use the undead officer :) The undead guy is actually a ghost. Basically, I just removed all the 'body' mesh, left a helmet with an added crown, and removed all the 'person' except clothes and armour. I figured I could re-use him for other undead units ( we may include Zombies )

[Bwian]

Following a busy Sunday.... the Centaurs are complete.

Centaur peasant ( spear only )
Centaur Militia ( spear and shield ) - slightly more combat worthy
Centaur Archer ( bow....but you guessed that ~:) )
Centaur Warrior ( spear and armour ) - much tougher

The textures are going to get a few tweaks, but the units are looking a bit more 'coherent' than they did before. Gone is the narrow waist....they look a lot more natural.

Screenshots to follow .... right now, my AOL webspace is refusing to co-operate!

[Sundjata Keita]

Wow you do work quickly don't you!

What other centaurs are you going to have, I thought maybee you could but some skirmisher ones in that throw javelins and maybee a giant one for the general. Also centaur peasants sounds a bit corny, maybee you could make them have centaurs names based on greek pottery such as Asbolos or Petraious (you've got to admit Asbolos warriors and Petraious archers sound pretty cool ~D )

EDIT: got another idea for the centaurs. You could drape a cloak over them like in this greek picture

http://members.aol.com/JWFvase3/page/S_MunichJ611.gif

Also the beard looks pretty cool if you have time to put that on ~;)

[Bwian]

Javelin throwers sound like a good idea ~:D

Not sure about a beard - could be done easy enough...just don't know how natural it would look. Will try and see.

The name thing is a good point. The names are more 'designations' at this point. Defining the purpose rather than a proper name. I like the sound of your suggestions though ! May very well be using those names ~:cheers:

[jerby]

how about a
-chimaera?
-a general mounted on a pegasus ( bellerophon himself perhaps?)
-a huge hydra ( bassically a 6-headed dinosaur in stead of elephants?)
-minotaur?
-nemean lion ( hercules)
-man-eating-horses ( hercules)
-titans
-promeathean ( earth-man)
-automation ( sort of robots)
- argus ( 100 eyes all over his body)
-satyr ( man on goat legs throwing spears)
-cyclops
-manticore ( winged scopion tih human head flingin stuff out of his tail)
-medussa
-phoenix ( hard to make it fly)
-anubis
-wadjet ( spitting snake with wings on his head ( skirmisher?))
-giant scarab
-scopion man
-sfinx
-mummy


those were some greek and egyptian units.

[Bwian]

Some of those things are planned....others, sadly, cannot be done without the ability to make completely new skeletons.

Anything may be possible.... but not yet!

[ShadowStriker]

the family tree should be like a list of gods or something "AND THEN COMES HERCULES"

[Bwian]

OK..quick unit update... we...er...'dug up' some new units to flesh out (sorry) the ranks of the undead:

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/johnpalmer04/zombie.jpg

These guys are just relentless. It takes a while, but they wear down the enemy one by one. No weapons....just fists..nails...claws...and evil halitosis ~:)

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

The Nordic Mytologi is actually perfect for this kind of stuff.
Don't know what the names of the god races is but on danish it's.

Aser or Asa: The true god race. The Nordic Gods live among this race but also "normal" people live here also. (Can be used as Elite Warriors especially as riders. The Asa were great riders and went with Odin into battle on horses) :knight:

Vaser or Vasa: The other god race. Evolved from the Asa race they are similar to Asa. They are pure, good and allies with the Asa races. No gods live among these. (Can be used as Elite Warriors) :knight:

Jætter or ogres?: The evil race of the world. "Jætter" is strong, powerfull and furious. But great warriors. They are ugly and therefore fearsome. (Can be used as warriors as they are the biggest of the nordic races). :furious3:

[EvlSnark9]

hey i think this mod looks awesome and all, but i cant figure out where to see the pics of your progress on the mod

if you could show me the way that would help alot because this mod just sounds to good to be true

[shifty157]

Bwian hasnt released many screenshots. Only 2 or 3 which is rather dissappointing considering how much work hes been putting into this mod and how good the results sound. Rather dissappointing indeed. *HINT HINT*

Of course im not implying anything.

lol.

Keep up the good work bwian. With a bit of luck youll get your own subforum soon.

[Frans Ubberdork]

[IMG]C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\tgas\cvsz2.jpg
how bout a work in progress.

[Frans Ubberdork]

ok lets try that again 8)
http://members.cox.net/rustynail456/C0540.jpg
work in progress.

[Frans Ubberdork]

Here is a fight.
http://members.cox.net/rustynail456/cvsz2.jpg

[Bwian]

Does that help any ~;)

How come his screenshots look better than mine!! Mind you...he is a lot more artistic than I am. Thats why the quality of the textures has gone up since he joined the mod team :bow:

As far as a website goes, I am working on one at the moment. The free 'website builder' that comes with my AOL webspace has been giving me so much trouble, I am currently on the lookout for some proper software to get that up and running.

So far, in terms of progress:

Skeleton units are built ( basic, swordsman, spearman, archer, mounted, mounted knight plus a ghostly standard bearer )
Zombie unit ( just one )
Centaurs ( basic, militia, archer, armoured )

We also have a full set of base animations in a variety of sizes for the less 'human scaled' units. The first of these is the Goblin. Soon to be available in a variety of flavours....and the Hill Troll. This replaces the initial test 'Incredible Hulk' version. Better mesh, less green, still nasty! Will do armoured versions. Will also have mounted Goblins ( well....you have to ;) )

We also have some other stuff up our sleeves .....but that's not ready for viewing yet ~:)

[BassV2]

when r u gonna send me a "test" skin?

[Bwian]

I sent you a PM .... I lost your mail address !!!

I also need to check if you are able to view the model.... it's not yet in the game. I would be sending it in 3DS format.

[Bwian]

Took me ages to get the right shade of Green....

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/johnpalmer04/gob1.jpg

These guys don't look too friendly....

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/johnpalmer04/gob2.jpg

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/johnpalmer04/gob3.jpg

Mounted troops on the way, plus some larger Man-Sized commander units.

[shifty157]

The details of the green goblin skin need to be more defined. They look blurred.

[Bwian]

The blurriness is partly down to my poor skin painting ability...and partly down to lousy JPEG compression to keep the file size down ;)

The goblin mesh still needs a few tweaks on the animation front. Scaling down teh underlying skeleton creates some issues if you want to have a 'chunky' look to your small units. I tried this ...and to be honest...the more I look at it, the less happy I am with it.

I will be re-doing the mesh with a more skinny, wiry sort of feel. I will keep the head shape, but slim it all down. This will cure some of the problems I had with the shoulder areas not animating nicely. The bone joints tend to drag them down. I also will be going slightly 'blacker' on the green. On the plus side....the Wolf Riders look good. Just got to stop the wolves going 'neigh'.... :dizzy2:

Anyone know how to get a custom sound linked to a unit?

[Mackaaan]

will the mythology mod map be a real world map, a map taken from a book or myth or just a new map? anyways cheers to your mod and the awsome units you have done.
you guys happen to need help with campaign map?

[Bwian]

Hmm...map. Good question, and one I have not 100% settled on.

The units are able to fit into pretty much any world. They are 'mythological' and hence, not completely anchored in teh real world.

On the other hand...a new campaign map adds additional interest!

When it comes down to it, I had some ahrd choices to make when it came to a setting for the Mod.

Heres the choice:

1) Stick with the stock map, and keep the mith creatures aligned to the game standard cultures, or available as mercenary type units

2) Come up with a fantasy map, or a stock map including things like Atlantis to give it a fantastical flavour

3) Go the whole hog and have another world


If I go '3' then I will be rather re-directing the mod, and that might invovle some changes. On the plus side....I have had mixed reults with large sized units, and some of the things I wanted to do are not workable yet...so...this leans me MORE towards what I would be able to complete.

Anyway.... if I go for a new map it will be including 'Stygia', 'Cimmeria' 'Khitai' and a few others. That will allow me to use the Undead units, and some of the large beast units which I have on the 'slab' right now, but will also include quite a selection of Human based units. I can draw some nice historical aspects in to give it a 'before the fall' feel, and I think that might work well.

Other possible 'world maps' would involve a certain albino with a big black sword.... Again...I could re-use the Undead and add some more stuff.

It's all a question of how big I want this to get! It's also not EXACTLY the mod I had in mind when I started, but it is develpoing a life of it's own!!!!

[Sundjata Keita]

2 is my opinion but any would be fine. Do you mean by coming up with a fantasy map creating sort of a mythical map based on mythical places. If you do then I think this will suit the mod better.

[Mackaaan]

you should choose either 2 or 3.

2, keeping the old map but cutting away like the far east and north and or adding some islands and stuff.

3, i think 3 would be coolest cause it would mean you havent played that map before, and you give the regions neat names to add to the feeling and that stuff. you shouldnt have to go through to much pain choosing 3