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Eastside Character

01-20-2005, 14:31

campaign map development (P&M RTW)

What is this thread all about:

1. Map arrangement (regions, geographic features, proper names etc.).
2. Wealth, resources, tradable goods etc. of provinces.

This post will be updated.
Any sensible suggestions, comments, corrections etc. are welcome.

Regards
EC

-EDIT-

Screenshots of all areas of map:
- Germany
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/6611/map01pmgermany1hg.th.jpg (http://img65.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img65&image=map01pmgermany1hg.jpg)

- Denmark
http://img239.exs.cx/img239/9898/map02pmdenmark0hb.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map02pmdenmark0hb.jpg)

- Austria
http://img239.exs.cx/img239/7887/map03pmaustria7ul.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map03pmaustria7ul.jpg)

- Finland
http://img239.exs.cx/img239/8273/map04pmfinland5ef.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map04pmfinland5ef.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/2407/map05pmlapland9bp.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.phploc=img239&image=map05pmlapland9bp.jpg)

- Norway (united with Denmark) and Sweden
http://img239.exs.cx/img239/4551/map06pmjamtland7fm.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.phploc=img239&image=map06pmjamtland7fm.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/307/map07pmuppland2bd.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map07pmuppland2bd.jpg)

- Poland and Lithuania
http://img239.exs.cx/img239/7176/map08pmpoland2lo.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map08pmpoland2lo.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/1413/map09pmruthenia3ec.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map09pmruthenia3ec.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/7477/map10pmukraine3rh.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map10pmukraine3rh.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/836/map11pmbelarus8nr.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map11pmbelarus8nr.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/9178/map12pmlithuania0fw.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map12pmlithuania0fw.jpg)

- Russia
http://img239.exs.cx/img239/1918/map13pmsiberia1ze.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map13pmsiberia1ze.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/2637/map14pmnovgorod6ll.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map14pmnovgorod6ll.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/153/map15pmmuscovy5ti.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map15pmmuscovy5ti.jpg)

- The Wild Fields (Cossack or Tatar states)
http://img239.exs.cx/img239/5881/map16pmdon0dc.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map16pmdon0dc.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/6591/map17pmkazakhstan5yc.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map17pmkazakhstan5yc.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/6065/map18pmastrakhan0do.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.phploc=img239&image=map18pmastrakhan0do.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/3461/map19pmcrimea1br.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map19pmcrimea1br.jpg)http://img239.exs.cx/img239/3011/map20pmzaporozhye1pk.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map20pmzaporozhye1pk.jpg)

- Hungary
http://img239.exs.cx/img239/4108/map21pmhungary1fu.th.jpg (http://img239.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img239&image=map21pmhungary1fu.jpg)

- Ottoman Empire
http://img195.exs.cx/img195/10/map22pmroumelia4op.th.jpg (http://img195.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img195&image=map22pmroumelia4op.jpg)http://img195.exs.cx/img195/1558/map23pmgreece1py.th.jpg (http://img195.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img195&image=map23pmgreece1py.jpg)http://img134.exs.cx/img134/3182/map24pmanatolia4vi.th.jpg (http://img134.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img134&image=map24pmanatolia4vi.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/6807/map25pmmontenegro9lc.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map25pmmontenegro9lc.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/6808/map27pmasia4kb.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map27pmasia4kb.jpg)

- Asia
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/2710/map26pmarmenia3ag.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map26pmarmenia3ag.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/9073/map28pmazerbaijan9km.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map28pmazerbaijan9km.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/8025/map31pmsyria0ip.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map31pmsyria0ip.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/7205/map32pmarabia4le.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map32pmarabia4le.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/883/map33pmiraq6nr.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map33pmiraq6nr.jpg)

- Italy
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/4642/map29pmsicily1db.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map29pmsicily1db.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/3481/map30pmtuscany5tj.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map30pmtuscany5tj.jpg)

- Africa
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/7136/map34pmoran8sj.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map34pmoran8sj.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/1567/map42pmbarca3fs.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map42pmbarca3fs.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/6671/map43pmtunisia7vm.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map43pmtunisia7vm.jpg)

- Spain
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/7/map35pmgranada3uk.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map35pmgranada3uk.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/2499/map36pmcastille4wr.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map36pmcastille4wr.jpg)

- Scotland
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/8676/map37pmscotland8xm.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map37pmscotland8xm.jpg)

- England
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/816/map38pmengland7mn.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map38pmengland7mn.jpg)

- France
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/6555/map39pmfrance3cx.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map39pmfrance3cx.jpg)http://img142.exs.cx/img142/5601/map40pmprovance3rn.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map40pmprovance3rn.jpg)

- Netherlands
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/3420/map41pmnetherlands8jx.th.jpg (http://img142.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img142&image=map41pmnetherlands8jx.jpg)

List of provinces: (to be updated)

FYI:
->the following division of regions into groups is for convenience
purpose only and not to argue whether or not a region X is more
western or norhtern european etc.
->the pattern is: province name - city name
->all the names are my propositions and are all open for discussion
->K. - Kingdom
->G.D. - Grand Duchy
->D. - Duchy
->A. - Archbishopric
->B. - Bishopric
->C. - County
->El. - Electorate
->A.D. - Archduchy
->M. - March
->E. - Eyalet
Western Europe
- - - - -
Papal States - Rome
Campania - Naples
Calabria - Reggio
Puglie - Bari
D. of Modena - Modena
D. of Tuscany - Florence
Liguria - Genoa
Lombardy - Milan
Venezzo - Venice
D. of Savoy - Turin
Corsica - Ajaccio
K. of Sardinia - Cagliari
K. of Sicily - Palermo
- - - - - 13
Provance - Marseilles
Languedoc -Toulouse
Dauphine - Grenoble
Overny - Clermont Ferrand
Limousin - Limoges
Guyenne - Bordeaux
Gascony - Auch
Poitou - Poitiers
Lyonnais - Lyon
Burgundy - Dijon
Orleanais - Orlean
Anjou - Angers
Brittany - Nantes
Normandy - Rouen
Champagne - Reims
Picardy - Amiens
Ile de France - Paris
- - - - - 30
Flanders - Ghent
Brabant - Brussels
G.D. of Luxembourg - Luxembourg
Franche Comte - Besancon
Switzerland - Bern
Alsace - Strasbourg
Lorraine - Nancy
B. of Liege - Liege
A. of Treves - Treves
A. of Cologne - Cologne
Holland - Amsterdam
Het Sticht - Utrecht
Generaliteitslanden - Breda
Stad en Ommelanden - Groningen
B. of Bremen - Bremen
B. of Munster - Munster
- - - - - 46
Portugal - Lisbon
Algavre - Algavre
Aragon - Barcelona
Andalucia - Seville
Valencia - Valencia
Granada - Granada
Galicia - Santiago de Compostela
Leon - Leon
Navarre - Pamplona
Castille - Valladolid
New Castille - Madrid
Mallorca - Palma
(...)
- - - - - 58
Eastern Europe
- - - - -
Upper Palatinate - Nuremberg
Lower Palatinate - Worms
C. of Hesse - Cassel
B. of Wurzburg - Wurzburg
D. of Brunswick - Brunswick
D. of Hamburg - Hamburg
G.D. of Mecklenburg - Lubeck
El. of Brandenburg - Berlin
D. of Pomerania - Stettin
D. of Baden and Wurtemberg - Stuttgart
El. of Saxony - Dresden
Silesia - Breslau
- - - - - 70
C. of Tyrolia - Trident
El. of Bavaria - Munich
A. of Salzbourg - Satzbourg
K. of Bohemia - Prague
A.D. of Austria - Vienna
D. of Styria - Graz
D. of Carinthia and Carniola - Klagenfurt
K. of Croatia - Zagreb
Royal Hungary - Presburg
Dalmatia - Zara
- - - - - 80
Budina - Buda
Tokai - Tokai
Transilvania - Nagyszeben
Wallachia - Buchuresti
Bulgaria - Sredec
Nish and Vidin - Nish
Serbia - Belgrade
Bosnia - Sarayevo
Montenegro - Cenita
Macedonia - Salonika
E. of Istanbul - Istanbul
E. of Roumelia - Edirne
E. of Janina - Janina
Dobruja - Silistra
Morea - Athens
Rhodes - Rhodes
Crete - Crete
- - - - - 97
Royal Prussia - Danzig
Ducal Prussia - Konnigsberg
D. of Courland - Mittau
Greater Poland - Poznan
Lesser Poland - Krakow
Mazovia - Warszawa
Lithuania - Vilnius
Belarus - Minsk
Polotsk - Polotsk
Ruthenia - Lviv
Volhynia - Lutsk
Podolia - Kamieniec Podolski
Kiev - Kiev
- - - - - 110
Zaporozhye - Sich
Yedisan - Ochakov
Moldavia - Jassy
Bessarabia - Akerman
Crimea - Bakhcheserai
Chernigov - Chernigov
Kuban - Azov
E. of Keffe - Keffe
Belgorod - Belgorod
Don - Serai/Tzaritzin
Smolensk - Smolensk
Tula - Tula
Ryazan - Ryazan
Kazan - Kazan
Muscovy - Moscow
Tver - Tver
Pskov - Pskov
Nizny Novgorod - Nizny Novgorod
Great Novgorod - Novgorod (...)
- - - - - 129
Northern Europe
Siberia - Vologda
Livonia - Riga
Estonia - Revel
Ingria - Nyen
Kexholm - Kexholm
Finland - Abo
Osterbotten - Uleaborg
Vasterbotten - Lulea
Uppland - Stockholm
Gotaland - Goteborg
Smaland - Kalmar
Gotland - Visby
Jamtland and Harjedalen - Blunflo
Skane - Malmo
Ostlandet - Oslo
Bergenshus - Bergen
Trondelag - Trondheim
Denmark - Kopenhagen
D. of Schlezwig and Holstein - Kiln
- - - - - 148
Essex - London
Wales - Cardiff
Wessex - Winchester
Kent - Canterbury
Oxfordshire - Oxford
Nottinghamshire - Nottingham
Northumbria - York
Lancashire - Preston
Galloway - Glasgow
Louthiane - Edynburgh
Ulster - Belfast
Leinster - Dublin
Munster - Cork (...)
- - - - - 161
Asia
Khazakhstan - Orsk
Astrakhan - Astrakhan
Circassia - ?
Abkhazia - Sukhum Kale
Kartli and Imereti - Tibilisi
Kakheti - ?
Erevan - Erevan
Daghestan - Derbent
Shirvan - Bakhu
Azerbaijan - Tabriz
Luristan - Hamadan
Kirkuk - Kirkuk
- - - - - 173
Cypres - Nicosia
E. of Van - Van
E. of Anatolia - Angora
E. of Konya - Konya
E. of Trebizond - Trebizond
E. of Adana - Adana
E. of Aleppo - Aleppo
E. of Syria - Damascus
E. of Mosul - Mosul
E. of Baghdad - Baghdad
Palestine - Jerusalem
Arabia - Madina (...)
- - - - - 185
Africa
Tanger - Tanger
Oran - Oran
Morocco - Fez
Algeria - Alger
Tunisia - Tunis
Tripolitania - Tripolis
Barca - Benghazi
Egypt - Cairo
Sahara - ? (...)
- - - - - 194

Eastside Character

01-23-2005, 16:32

I've started updating the list of provinces in the first post (as you can see). As far as the map is comming along, I'm now putting together the Russian part of it. It's not yet ready to be shown, as I'm not yet certain of what regions should there be. Now I have: Muscovy, Smolensk, Chernigov, Kursk, Don, Kazan, Ryazan, Tula, Orel, Tver, Vologda, Pskov, Novgorod. I'd appreciate any feedback.

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

01-23-2005, 16:59

Does this mean that the whole of Naples is going to be one single province?

Eastside Character

01-23-2005, 18:02

That's the idea. Dividing it makes little sense as far as the province ownership is concerned. Historically it belonged to Spain (which owns bunch of regions all over the western Mediterranean anyway). The whole Italy is not very much divided because of the faction arrangement we have. There aren't enough factions to divide the Italy more IMHO. The Papacy, Spain and Venice (and some rebel states here and there) are the only factions which will own regions in Italy. If Kingdom of Naples should be divided, then for what reasons?

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

01-23-2005, 20:00

Just to make it harder to conquer. Its half Italy in territory, so IMO it should be split in, at least 2.

Eastside Character

01-25-2005, 17:44

So what would you suggest to be added? Spoleto?

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

01-25-2005, 17:53

Or maybe Tarento....

Maybe we could contact Prometheus and ask him which he considers more important...Italian history isn't my forte...

Eastside Character

01-25-2005, 21:15

Or maybe Tarento....

Maybe we could contact Prometheus and ask him which he considers more important...Italian history isn't my forte...

Then contact him if you can, as I simply don't know him.

SwordsMaster

01-28-2005, 14:17

Here it is:

See this:

- Campania: capital Naples;
- Calabria: capital Reggio;
- Puglie: capital Bari

Eastside Character

02-10-2005, 12:09

Great Britain ~:confused:
I need some ideas of how to arrange Great Britain. I think Scotland should get two regions - what names of regions (Highlands and Lowlands?) and what names of their capitals.

But then about England I only realise there should be Wales with Cardiff as its capital and what then? Cities like London, York will certainly have to be there, but what should be their provinces etc. I need info on that.

Great Map ~D
The whole map is looks pretty much done in mos places, I'm closing the region limit. Soon there will be a major update with screens. Hopefully, after we all discuss what to change after that, we'll have a ready to go campaign map! ~:cheers:

From what I now can tell about how is campaign running, I'd says its good. I played once like 10 years and everything was fine. I'm tweaking the map all the time and a lot recently, changing geography and started adding forests.

Great Forest :book:
And here's another thing I have to ask you: can you for your respective countries find some kind of info on where should some major forest areas be. Well if you can tell without searching then its ok with me, but I would need some pictures like maps with forest areas.

And one more thing about forests: I think we don't need dense forest in mod. What do you think? Instead we could change it into something else (like towns like Myrddraal /sp?/). Reasons for doing so are: we have pretty crowded map and adding some more obstacles would turn Europe into a labyrinth. Still, makind dense forest in places like Syberia etc. makes no sense either, as it's just like not using dense forest at all.

Great Wilderness ~D
I have an idea to create one region that would represent territories with no permanent settlements and major political force, or because we have no factions to assign there, anyway that region would consist of: most of Sahara, most of Arabia, anywhere else you suggest?. I would like to make such region unconquerable, but if you think it shoudl be conquerable, I'm not going to argue much. I'm now only gonna say why making it unconquerable makes sense to me - because making so would be more ... historical as neither Turks, nor the Spanish conquered that territory. Still, passing it and making bases there would be possible, as well as hiring mercenaries probably.

:dizzy2:

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-10-2005, 14:44

I think we don't need dense forest in mod. What do you think?

I think we dont need anything "impassable". At least not in the crowded Western Europe.

The point of having "dense" forests from the game mechanics point of view ensures that rebels dont appear in certain areas, i.e. only appear where you want them to. Consider this as well. So In the huge russian provinces it might make sense having a few dense areas just to avoid rebles spamming everywhere.

Still, passing it and making bases there would be possible, as well as hiring mercenaries probably.

You mean a territory with no capital?

If that is it, its ok with me...

Eastside Character

02-10-2005, 19:28

You mean a territory with no capital?

If that is it, its ok with me...

I mean a province with a capital but with no acess to it (like its behind some mountains or inside impasable-dense forest area. It's not possible to make a region have to capital.

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-10-2005, 20:10

I mean a province with a capital but with no acess to it (like its behind some mountains or inside impasable-dense forest area. It's not possible to make a region have to capital.

Regards
EC

surrounded by "dense" forest? ~D

Eastside Character

02-13-2005, 10:35

The province list has been updated. There are few things I need to know (look for question marks). I'd appreciate some feedback. All of the regions in the list (plus some more that aren't there yet) have been moded into campaign.

I still need info on Great Britain :help:

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-13-2005, 11:27

How many regions do you want in UK?

Scotland: Capitals should be Edimburgh and Glasgow. (if we stick to 2 provinces that is)

I was just thinking, if Scotland has only 2 provinces, it is really easy for the english (or anyone else, for that matter) to conquer them outright. Blitz them.

Still, Scotland is not a hugely populated area, and thus probaly doesnt deserve more provinces, so maybe a "scottish" resource should be placed to make it rebellious if it doesnt belong to Scotland. Or make a lot of easlily ambushable areas around the cities to slow down the attacker....

How many provinces will Wales get?

Ironside

02-13-2005, 14:46

I would guess that Blunflo is the best capital for Jamtland and Harjedalen. It's about 20 km south-east of current Östersund (founded 1745 so Östersund is outside our time-period). It seems to be the best choise. Otherwise you could choose Sveg if it makes for a better map.

Some areas in northen Sweden could be made impassable, but you should be able to tavel from Norway to Sweden at some places up there. I should take time to do so though (= thickest passable forest).

Eastside Character

02-13-2005, 14:52

How many regions do you want in UK?
About ten: Ireland - 1, Wales - 1, Scotland - 2, England - 6 or 7.
Now, about Wales there's no way it gets abother province. Scotland's 2 should make it enough, but still there can be one more if it really proves to be necessary. England ends up with up to six regions, that is six probably.

About Edinbough and Glasgow as capitals of Scottish regions, are you really sure? I mean they are located very close to each other, it kinda contradicts with what you said about making it hard to conquer Scotland. I'd rather make Iverness or Dundee capital of the second Scottish region, but I'm not sure about the historical corectness of it. I'd be the best if someone from UK, or better Scotland gave us some hint or something.

For what I can think of now for England, there would be regions like:

City of London - London
? - Oxford
Wessex and Cornwall- Southampton
Kent - Dover
? - Nottingham
Anglia - Cambridge
Northumbria - York

That's just my idea and I'm not really sure if historically accurate. As you see I know little about it.

Regards
EC

Eastside Character

02-13-2005, 14:57

Sundjata Keita

02-13-2005, 15:34

Hey I'm from U.K. maybee I could help with the regions. Here are my ideas.

England

Essex - London
Kent - Canterbury
Wessex - Winchester
Northumbria - York
Oxfordshire - oxford
Nottinghamshire - Nottingham
Sussex - Hastings

Wales

Wales - Cardiff

Ireland

Leinster - Dublin

Scotland

Galloway* - Glasgow
Louthiane - Edinburgh**

* Actually Endinburh and Glasgow were both in Louthiane so I picked the nearest province - Galloway
** Edinburgh then was called Edynburgh

Eastside Character

02-13-2005, 15:59

Thanks Sundjata Keita, that's what I needed. Only one thing tho, should then Ireland be named Leinster?

Regards
EC

Sundjata Keita

02-13-2005, 17:58

Well Ireland was split into four provinces at the time; munster, leinster, connaught and ulster. Dublin was in leinster but if you only want Ireland as one province then name it Ireland as it makes more sense. If you want Northern Ireland as a seperate one call it Ulster and call Ireland Ireland.

Ironside

02-13-2005, 18:09

Old railroad map (http://www.historiskt.nu/normalsp/staten/inlandsb/inlb_karta_alternativ_sg_brunflo.html)

You can find Östersund and Storsjön on other maps correct? It's a map over alternative railroads in case you're wondering.

Other wise you can use this one
infosverige (http://www.infosverige.com/index.php?lang=sv)
Click on jämtlands län and zoon in a bit and you should find it.

And about forests, eehh uhmm take Norrland, put on forest, then make the entire area forest. There you have it. Same thing with northern Finland. ~D Large parts of Småland was/is also forrested.
If you're going to redue the travelable forest in northen Sweden, we can assume that armies will go close to the rivers (älvarna), so the passable areas would follow the rivers as much as possible.
In southern Sweden is all forest passable.

Terrain (http://www.sna.se/webbatlas/kartor/vilka.cgi?fritext=terrain&lang=en) hights (http://www.sna.se/webbatlas/kartor/vilka.cgi?temaband=A&lang=SE&karta=hojdskikt&vt1=OK)
Gives you the mountain area atleast.

percentage of forest by area (http://www.sna.se/webbatlas/kartor/vilka.cgi?temaband=B&lang=SE&karta=andel_skogsmark_av_landarealen&vt1=OK)
And this it the situation today ~:eek: . It gets even worse considering that alot of the rest is swamps and "mountains at the surfuce". 11% of Swedens area is built on (3%) or agricultivated (8%) today. What I can see, it seems to be close to what it was earlier.

SwordsMaster

02-13-2005, 18:33

Thanks Sundjata Keita, that's what I needed. Only one thing tho, should then Ireland be named Leinster?

Regards
EC

Come on, only one?

Im living in Ireland at the moment, and at least Ulster should get a province. Think that the religious wars started at this time between catholics and protestants. Im not asking for 7-8 counties, but at least 2-4 provinces...

Eastside Character

02-13-2005, 21:47

Everyone has some point. First, that idea about Sussex and Hastings is not good as I can't place it correctly (or even acceptably) on the map as it's too close to Canterbury and Kent's border, so instead of that I put there Norfolk - Norwich. What do you think about that?

Now about Ireland, I agree, I checked that, and you're right about the four provinces. Still, there is no (and cannot be) Irish faction as such and so it makes Ireland less important globally. All there can be is three regions, so now you call them:
Leinster - Dublin
Ulster - ?
? - ?

But making those regions means I have to delete some others, I was thinking about what regions aren't important as much as to leave them and I picked:
Moravia - Brno
Bourbonnais - Moulins

Moravia can be merged with Bohemia and it afterall was populated by Czechs. Historically it always (in mods timeframe) belonged to rulers of Bohemia etc. etc. it's a good choice to get rid of this region.

Bourbonnais wasn't a particularly important province and I think France will have enough regions to keep it strong anyway.

And thank's for all that stuff Ironside ~:cheers: That's really helpful. :book:

I like some many people are active! ~:grouphug: ~D

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-13-2005, 23:36

Ulster - Belfast
? - Cork would be my choice as it divides the country nicely

Sundjata Keita

02-14-2005, 00:07

Munster - Cork

Yeah good point EC did not think about how close together the cities might be. I don't know if Norwich has any historical background though as any kind of city although the only other town I can think of in Norfolk is Great Yarmouth. I will look into it later.

Eastside Character

02-14-2005, 09:58

I put there Norwich as it appears on all my europe maps since the end of XVc. map, and that's exactly our period. But if there should be some other province and city used, that's ok. Just make the decision today as I want to finish the province arrangement today.

Regards
EC

Sundjata Keita

02-14-2005, 18:42

I think maybee you should make another province towards the north as otherwise Northumbria will be huge I suggest Lancashire - Preston

Eastside Character

02-16-2005, 08:12

The region list has been updated and it now counts 194, although there are actually 197 regions, I gotta find which I missed...

Anyway there are 3 regions left that I myself didn't want to use, but if anyone has some ideas prehaps we can use them.

Soon I'll present some screens of the whole map, so now I'm preparing for it (making the texturing looking better and changing geoghraphy).

That atlas I got is really helpful, I found a page with economic map of europe in XVIc. Think that can help in the whole resources/tradable goods matter.

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-16-2005, 10:03

That atlas I got is really helpful, I found a page with economic map of europe in XVIc. Think that can help in the whole resources/tradable goods matter.

Which one is it? Just out of curiosity.

Moros

02-16-2005, 21:01

just a note: I missed two important city's: Antwerps and Brugge (not sure if it's the correct Englisch name for the last city) but in the 15th Century Brugge had the most important port of Western Europe. they imported wool from England, they imported food from the Baltic states and they traded with the Italiens. In the 16th Century Antwerps take over the Brugge's monopoly. Then when the war between spain and the Nothern Netherland started all the economic trade went to Amsterdam. These are true facts so I suggest adding at least adding one of those. Perhaps by deleting Ghent wich wasn't as important Antwerps or Brugge at start of the game.

Eastside Character

02-18-2005, 00:30

This is this major map update I've been talking about before.

I have updated the first post with screens.

As I checked it is correct and both Brugge and Antwerp were signifficant trade centers, but I haven't yet made any changes. I think I'll rename and relocate Ghent to Brugge most probably as Netherlands are very crowded anyway.

Obviously the map isn't yet 100% ready, as I have to add forests to many places as well as make some other minor changes. I bet you'll come up with what to enhance/change.

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-18-2005, 01:24

Most impressive EC . Great job! :bow:

Ironside

02-18-2005, 09:12

Looks exellent ~:thumb:

Although some links doesn't work. ~:confused:

Sundjata Keita

02-18-2005, 10:17

:rtwyes: Very good

Few changes in Africa though Benghazi should be Darnah
Should add Rusicade as a city
Look at a sattelite image to see there is more desert near Oran

SwordsMaster

02-18-2005, 11:11

Hey, EC, I've been taking a closer look at the map, and have a few comments on Spain:

There should be more mountains stretching west of Madrid (actually that range tretches almost to Lisbon, but that would be too much...)

Also, More mountains surrounding Granada. The city itself is at 2000m over sea level. That range stretches almost all the way up to Seville. The range north of Granada and Seville should stretch a few more tiles to the west too.

In general, the terrain north of seville has quite a lot of hills too. (They grow olives there ~;) )

The peaks between Pamplona and Valladolid should be removed. Instead, Valladolid should be moved a tile or 2 east.

Also, If possible, the port of Granada, should be in modern day Cartagena, on the east coast, about 300+- km south of Valencia, if possible. There were no really important ports on the south coast apart from Cadiz.

I love kingdom of Naples. And is Sicily finally getting 1 prov only?

Eastside Character

02-18-2005, 18:01

SwordsMaster
I will correct the spanish regions later as I aint home right now. Anyway I think tomorrow evening I will be able to do sth. As for Sicily, well I'm aware that both Mesana and Syracuse were important in our mods timeframe, we can't have them. Or we can't have them both, because theoretically we can still add three regions.

Sundjata Keita
I will correct Africa as well, later.

Ironside
You're right about that screen not showing up, I'll upload another one later.

I'm glad you like the general characteristics of the map. Still there are some places on which I have to work on more, like that bay by which Edynburgh is located - it isnt sailable right now, and it should be. Similar thing is with that bay west to Stockholm, although I haven't actually sailed there. I think I'll have to try tomorrow. But all in all, the coasts of the added northern areas are accessible and cause no problems.

Regards
EC

Eastside Character

02-18-2005, 18:08

Hey, EC, I've been taking a closer look at the map, and have a few comments (...)

I would like everyone viewing the screens to take a closer look, that's the point exactly. I'm posting screens for you to get some feedback on flaws. :book:

Regards
EC

Eastside Character

02-20-2005, 17:27

I guess now that provinces are pretty much done (will later post changes screenshots), we can focus more on tradable goods and resources list, and then resources for particular regions.

From what has been said in discussion about resources in the general P&M RTW thread, and from what I have learned from other historical books, here are the resources/tradable goods I can come up with right now:

01-gold
02-silver
03-copper
04-iron
05-lead
06-quicksilver
07-timber
08-coal
09-glass
10-metalworks
11-textiles
12-linen
13-silk
14-wool
15-cotton
16-hides
17-furs
18-grain
19-salt
20-spices
21-sugar
22-wine
23-cattle
24-high quality horses
25-camels
26-slaves
27-fish

Many resources from the list above appear in vanilla RTW.

So what are your other suggestions, as I think there should be more?

Regards
EC

Sundjata Keita

02-20-2005, 18:12

I think you have everything important apart from fish which was quite tradable at the time. If you want more there are lots of other things introduced around the period, tobacco for instance.

Once the whole lists sorted I can give you the resources for Africa which you can then cut down slightly for game balance.

Zafer

02-21-2005, 00:02

Eastside Character

02-21-2005, 09:20

Looks great. Some things I think are important however...

Tatars and other central Asian states are Turkic and Muslim people, they are not Cossacks, which were Ukrainian or Russian I believe?

I can help you with the province and city names for the Turkic nations if you wish (Ottomans, Central Asian states, Tatars, etc). The Turks also write in the latin alphabet, so making the spelling correct is easy.

Some changes to be made

Ottomans -
Angora = Ankara
Trebizond = Trabzon

The other city names located in the Ottoman Empire are fine because they are not ethnically Turkish cities, and should retain their original Balkan names.

and

Tatars (located in Crimea) -
Bakhcheserai = Bahceseray (pronounced the same)

Thank a lot for all the corrections. I only knew Trebizond is Trabzon, but kept the english name. Next time you see any screens of Asia Minor, you see the names you've given.

Because of the Ottoman Empire and other Turkic states location on the silk road, and long tradition of nomadic horseback riding (remember these guys are the cousins of Mongols), I believe they should have easy access to silk and definitely easy access to high quality horses.

Certainly so, silk and textiles are going to be most common goods, but there also will be (or I think should be):
iron (Trabzon, Adana, Syria),
linen (Anatolia),
wool (Anatolia and Konya),
glass (Istanbul, Aleppo),
metalugry (Istanbul, Syria, Trabzon (actually in Sivas)).
About the horses, I think they will have to be in most of Ottoman provinces.

I think you have done a great job for the Ottoman Empire territories, I am looking at a 1500 AD map right now and everything is there.

Thanks, I was trying to do my best. Ottoman Empire is probably the most important power of the P&M period and any help with making things correct is most welcome. ~:cheers: :bow:

Regards
EC

Moros

02-23-2005, 13:09

I think wool is a must, Britain and flanders (SOuthern part of the Netherlands) traded lots of wool.
Slaves well, I don't know how much to the south you're map will be. Cause yuou could only buy slaves in Africa.
Horses? Well I don't know perhaps high quality horses are bettter cause in those areas I think you could buy lots off horses anyway.
Salt,pepper and other spices I would defenatly add them cause wasn't those one of the reasons the east was very rich. but then again that is if you'd add Asia otherwise I wouldn't add so much spices.

I have nothing to say about the other rescources as I am no historican so not everything I said (euhm..wrote) could be historically correct.But I thiught a few comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

PS: sorry for my bad Englisch.

Moros

02-23-2005, 13:24

Cause I can't edit my post for some reasons I'll just have to send a new message:

About Brugge and those rescources well I just remembered a few maps In my historical Atlas wich you may find usefull tough it is in dutch I could send you a translation of things if you don't know what it means. The maps contain city's (include brugge) their enconmic activites and an otherone has rescources on it and trading routs. It also shows how imporatant Brugge was in that time. (the first one is only of the netherlands and the secon is of Western Europe)

Sundjata Keita

02-23-2005, 17:50

You can edit your posts once you become a member.

Just wanted to say you could also get African slaves in coastal Spanish provinces because of the moors and the rebellions of the Africans once they had been captured which led to some interesting unit types (the pirates I mentioned)

Zafer

02-24-2005, 06:06

Well, keep in mind that the Barbary and Ottoman Pirates took about 1 million white slaves in a span of over a hundred years to North Africa. There were instances even in which they went to Iceland and took over 100 people back to North Africa. British coasts were in constant threat of attack (in 3 years the pirates took over 7,000 British into slavery by capturing their ships off the coast).

In America it's an understandably common misperception that slaves were always African.

Sundjata Keita

02-24-2005, 09:05

true, very true (never knew they went to iceland though!)

Eastside Character

02-24-2005, 19:45

I've been working on the map lately a little...

SwordsMaster
I corrected Iberian geography quite a bit as you suggested, here are the new screens:

http://img187.exs.cx/img187/9109/map44correctediberia010vw.th.jpg (http://img187.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img187&image=map44correctediberia010vw.jpg)

http://img187.exs.cx/img187/2571/map46correctediberia013wv.th.jpg (http://img187.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img187&image=map46correctediberia013wv.jpg)

http://img187.exs.cx/img187/9717/map45correctediberia013ia.th.jpg (http://img187.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img187&image=map45correctediberia013ia.jpg)

http://img187.exs.cx/img187/841/map47correctediberia010ea.th.jpg (http://img187.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img187&image=map47correctediberia010ea.jpg)

http://img187.exs.cx/img187/6862/map48correctediberia018yr.th.jpg (http://img187.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img187&image=map48correctediberia018yr.jpg)
And as the last screen shows Portugal I need to ask if we really need that Algarve province? I mean it is so small, has no port, it's only a symbolic region to me, so that the Portugal is not only one region. But as far as I know Algarve wasn't that important at that time compared o other cities like Porto, Braga, Coimbra, so why not to replace Algarve with some other region? I'm not an expert on Iberian affairs, but to me if would seem that Porto is the best option. Anyway what do you think?

And should there be any forests in Iberian peninsula, if yes where approximately?

Sundjata Keita
Here's what are the African regions right now. Cyan dots mark ports, white dots - cities. I know you had some suggestions, so could you point out all the changes you think are necessary?
http://img153.exs.cx/img153/2582/afr0024ic.png (http://img153.exs.cx/img153/2582/afr0024ic.png)

I'm changing and tweaking other places in map as well.

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-25-2005, 16:23

Sundjata Keita

02-25-2005, 19:25

These are the regions as I understand them, can you please tell me what the question marks are and why there is a part of Biledulgerid seperated from the rest.

http://img198.exs.cx/img198/3482/africapmcopy0an.png

Eastside Character

02-26-2005, 16:33

ok, I'll tackle those last pics one by one:

pic 1:
Pirenees should be more massive, maybe hillyer instead of actual impassable mountains, but definitely more voluminous.

The mountains N of Madrid should be also thicker. Just add a little bit more of them between the mountain range that is there now and Madrid. Also, the terrain NE and NW of the city is hilly.

The "chunk" of mountains between Valencia and Madrid is to be moved north to create almost a line In the Madrid-Corsica direction.

The terrain between Leon and Santiago is definitely hilly, although it is pretty flat around Leon itself. Galicia is a really eroded mountain block and has very little flat lands.

South of Toledo (it is not on the map, but just to give you an orientation) there should be a small mountain range: a line of peaks surrounded by hills before entering (going S) some fertile lands and another mountain range N of Seville.

pic2:

Cartagena (Valencia port) is ok. There is hilly terrain around it too, and its quite arid.

Ok, up to this point its all good, I've already been making some of the suggested adjustments.

pic3 &4:

The mountain range is ok on the west, but it describes a "V" shape around Seville and the river. Seville being the moust "open" part of the "V" and the river valley stretching between the mountains.

Now here, I don't think I get what your saying. I mean you say the mountain range is ok on the west and then talk about V shape around Seville and the river (Gwadalkiwir or sth?) but that's actually west of Granada, so I'm confused. :dizzy2: ~:confused:

Granada is ok, Add hills on the flat areas as it is literally surrounded by mountains (but will still have to be accessible).

Portugal:

You are right. Porto is much more significative from every point of view than Algarve. The problem with Porto is that it is split in 2 by the Douro and it is hard to represent. There were very important docks in Porto too.

Douro for a border works fine, so what's the name of that Porto region, and so if the rest is simply Portugal, or sth different?

These are the regions as I understand them, can you please tell me what the question marks are and why there is a part of Biledulgerid seperated from the rest.

So lets take a look at those question marks (look from left to right):
- port for Tanger
- Tunisia
- part of Biledulgerid

And as for Biledulgerid, I hoped to make it a region which could not be owned by any faction, but could be controlled by any. The idea is to place city in a mountain so there's no way out or in, or make it possible only to go out, but not in the settlement (I tested it and it's possible). This doesn't mean rebels (Berbers) who would permanently own the province are immobile. There would still be rebel forces comming from neighboring regions and as said before, rebels can be 'permitted' only to go out of their town. What do you think? This way I think, Biledulgerid would be more similar to what it was, well, and prehaps still is to some extent.

Oh, and I believe it's Oran not Telesin.

Regards
EC

Sundjata Keita

02-26-2005, 18:51

I was talking about the region not the port
Telesin is the region - Oran is the city
I think the whole area was called Tunis at the time rarther than Tunisia

I think maybee you should rename it into a different province if you have enough left otherwise just join the two areas up with an extra bit on the bottom part of Berdoa. ~:)

SwordsMaster

02-26-2005, 20:40

Now here, I don't think I get what your saying. I mean you say the mountain range is ok on the west and then talk about V shape around Seville and the river (Gwadalkiwir or sth?) but that's actually west of Granada, so I'm confused.

Yeah, sorry, I meant the east. ~;)

Douro for a border works fine, so what's the name of that Porto region, and so if the rest is simply Portugal, or sth different?

I´ll come back to this.

EDIT: Found a map that might be useful: on this (http://mapmogul.com/catalog/product_info.php+cPath+2_5_7+products_id+672) page.

Eastside Character

02-27-2005, 22:46

Hey, I've been tweaking the map a bit here and there, here are some samples:

Zaporozhye
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/4558/01newmap011ft.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=01newmap011ft.jpg)

Sich was really an island so I wanted to try to make it so. It's separated by river from every side, eventhough as you can see in screenshot 2 there is actually a space between two ends of river. All in all the settlement is only accessible from bridges east and west of Sich. The screen 3 shows Zaporozhyan port separated from the rest of the region by part of Yedisan
and Crimea. Zaporozhyan Cossacks had their own navy and often used it in raids into Ottoman territory, so giving them a port is a fair decision I think. Moreover, the whole arrangement of that particular area, makes the whole territory of the provinces bordering Zaporozhye from south-west have almost no roads! And thats how it should be.

Baltic Islands
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/4829/01newmap023wt.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=01newmap023wt.jpg)

I've been working on the cosmetics of Baltic Islands, still have to work more on Sweden and Norway tho.

The Netherlands
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/5591/01newmap036uo.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=01newmap036uo.jpg)

I've tied making some Frisian Islands and it worked, so I went further and also changed Zealand and added port for Brabant, which i located approximately in place of Antwerps I think. I was also thinking that port for Groningen is not right. I've been checking this thing with different maps and so and I conclude Groningen should not have a port. Still the Dutch should be strong mostly thanks to their navy and taking away the port from Groningen makes it the United Netherlands end up with 2 ports. Realisticly, they have almost no chances with Spanish fleet if France is not in war with Spain. So does anyone have any ideas where could that third port could be placed instead of in Groningen's region?

Closer look on the Pireneyes
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/2007/01newmap042vq.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=01newmap042vq.jpg)

They are more massive, I elevated them quite a bit and also the whole area around is more hilly.

North-East Spain
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/2555/01newmap051nu.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=01newmap051nu.jpg)

Portugal
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/4978/01newmap068yx.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=01newmap068yx.jpg)

Was thinking, what about that Porto region be named like Minho e Douro, I've seen the name in the georgaphical atlas and I think it was the name of that coastal part of the region, the rest is Traz os Montes but I'm thinking that can be a name of some mountain range or not? Where is Dementhor? He should know 'everything' about Portugal, right?

Granada
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/929/01newmap077ia.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=01newmap077ia.jpg)

Granada has to have a road connection with Seville as there was an important traiding route, and so the mountain range in that part is a bit reduced. The river cannot be as its in reality so the V shape of the whole area is not very much possible.

Anyway, if it's still very much not correct - I will correct.

North-West Spain
http://img192.exs.cx/img192/8775/01newmap080wb.th.jpg (http://img192.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img192&image=01newmap080wb.jpg)

And some other questions I have:
-which Irish regions should have ports (I know only that Dublin should)
-if Glasgow should have a port or not (as would I say)
-should Osterbotten and Vasterbotten have ports (I don't know most of my maps don't cover that far north)
-if Trondheim should have a port

That's all, for now.

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-28-2005, 01:06

I´ll have a look at the spanish maps tomorrow. Right now, how are the sieges on Zaporozhye going to work? are there problems with the river?

Eastside Character

02-28-2005, 08:50

Sieges work fine, a besiging army has stand on one of the bridges (east or west) and the siege is normal in other aspects. I haven't yet tessed a possibility when the besieged crew wants to break out and attacked the besieger. I wonder if such battle will be a river battle, or just a regular siege battle. I would say it should be (or I'd like it more) the first possibility, so a river battle. Will have to check it. :charge:

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

02-28-2005, 12:54

Ok, here we go:

Pyrenees: As far as I know, the only 2 viable routes across the pyrenees were coastal, ie the route N of Barcelona and the route N of Pamplona. So IMO the road in the middle shouldnt exist.

Madrid&surrounding mountains: It looks perfect, good job.

Sevilla & V shape: Can you then make hills instead of mountains between Sevilla and Granada, and make the mountains N of Sevilla a bit more massive?

Porto: Is it possible to make Porto on one side of the river (SOuth) and its port on the N side of the river? That would make the impression of the city split by the river as it is in reality.

I can show you a picture if you want.

Besides the docks are on the northern side of the city anyway.

NW of Spain: unite the 2 mountain ranges between Santiago and Leon with hills and an occasional mountain.

Otherwise, the map is very good.

I cant comment on how provinces in Portugal are named, but if in doubt you can always call them Porto and Lisbon and call it a day. ~;)

I was also thinking about the Sich and IMHO it shouldnt be be upgradable past wooden palisades (as it is in reality, they still stand there...) and REALLY high unrest.

Moros

03-02-2005, 17:25

about the United Netherlands, Amsterdam was he biggest port of the United Netherlands in the 17th Century but Im' not sure if it had a big port before that. I'll look it up in my historical atlas, though I'm not sure it's in it.

Moros

03-02-2005, 19:52

Two Helpful maps (I translated everything I could)
http://img24.exs.cx/img24/2278/map15ie.th.jpg (http://img24.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img24&image=map15ie.jpg)

http://img24.exs.cx/img24/417/map27er.th.jpg (http://img24.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img24&image=map27er.jpg)
About those ports, I'm not sure How the Netherlands is going to start will it be Only the Northern part or will it also contain Flanders. Or is after the war with spain? (this all depens on when the game starts) If it's Flander and northern Netherlands I'd say make it Amsterdam Antwerps (Brussels) and Brugge (Antwerps and Brugge had huge ports and Amsterdam was "famous" for its shipbuilding, see the map)
Otherwise Perhaps only Rotterdam and Amsterdam.
Btw: I love your new touch to the North of Netherlands.

Ignoramus

03-02-2005, 20:39

Looks great! When will it be completed?

Narayanese

03-12-2005, 19:03

Göteborg was founded in 1620 (source (http://www.soic.se/4.b307f0f6fc1205987fff5195.html)), before that the swedish west coast port was Älvsborg, at almost exactly the same place as Göteborg, and just as important for sweden (historical note: Älvsborg was taken by denmark in the 1560s, but bought back for 150.000 riksdaler), so Goteborg should be renamed to Alvsborg in the early campaign.

The first system for transporting ships through Stockholm (dictionary says the english word is "lock") was built in 1642(source (http://www.stockholm.se/templates/template_121.asp_Q_mainframe_E_template_154.asp_Q_number_E_53376_A_category_E_12677_A_cat1_E_163_A_c at2_E_12690_A_c_E_12677_A_name_E_Historia)). The water passes through Stockholm through Strömmen, a shallow rapid which only small boats with little keel can pass.
Södertälje kanal was built in the reign of Karl XI (17th century) (source (http://kanaler.arnholm.nu/soders.html)), but was secondary to the passage through Stockholm (says Nordisk Familjebok, an encyclopedia).
So there was no passage for warships between Mälaren and the Baltic Sea in most of the period of this mod.

Eastside Character

03-12-2005, 21:16

Ok man, so here is Stockholm as I have it now; so what's wrong with it (I'm asking cause I don't know all those names you used describing the area)?
http://img67.exs.cx/img67/2083/00map000046gr.th.jpg (http://img67.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img67&image=00map000046gr.jpg)

I got a few more screenshots of what's been corrected, changed, etc. etc. and I need your help, cause got some problems I cannot solve myself, see them listed below Below*.

Spain, hopefully now everything is OK? Or not?
http://img236.exs.cx/img236/2945/00map000010yo.th.jpg (http://img236.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img236&image=00map000010yo.jpg)

Below*

Problem 1, Kakheti's town and its location, what I got now is wrong and I can't find what it should be.
http://img236.exs.cx/img236/2152/00map000022fx.th.jpg (http://img236.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img236&image=00map000022fx.jpg)

Problem 2, Circassia's town and its location, rest the same as in Problem 1 above.
http://img67.exs.cx/img67/1874/00map000056ue.th.jpg (http://img67.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img67&image=00map000056ue.jpg)

Problem 3, where precisely to locate Blunflo.
http://img67.exs.cx/img67/153/00map000034ge.th.jpg (http://img67.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img67&image=00map000034ge.jpg)

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

03-12-2005, 21:22

Ok, Spain finally looks fine. And you´ll be glad not to hear a nitpicker like me whining again ~;) .Ah well its all good.

Narayanese

03-12-2005, 23:56

I can't find any town called Blunflo in my swedish atlas, however I found Brunflo, a town at the eastern tip of the lake Storsjön in Jämtland. The other names on the map is my assumptions of what rivers and lake you have included on the map.
http://www.k.kth.se/danielra/brunflo.jpg

Here's what I meant about Stockholm. I have included Hjälmaren (a lake) because it was a rather big lake before the 19th century, before it was made deeper (by use of explosives) to make room for farms (was a few year since I read it though, in the school history book). The only natural passage for water from Mälaren to the Baltic Sea is through the middle of Stockholm. Strömmen is one of two places in Stockholm where water can pass. At the cuty of Södertälje, there is a narrow piece of land separating Mälaren from baltic sea. Stockholms old wharf, is on Beckholmen and Skeppsholmen (two small island next to eachother), is due east of Stockholm's Old Town (the old town is two islands between the points where water flows from Mälaren to baltic sea), on the baltic sea coast, in Uppland (the landskap (province) north of Stockholm), however they are more or less inside Stockholm. Stockholms old commercial port is simply the shores of the old town.
I green is what I think is a better coastline.
http://www.k.kth.se/danielra/malaren.jpg

Narayanese

03-13-2005, 00:06

just to clarify: brunflo is north of Ljungan. It might be Indalsälven you have included on the map (but I don't think so, Indalsälven doesn't seem big in my atlas), Brunflo is south of Indalsälven, but if the river is Indalsälven then Storsjön is a little too far north.

Ironside

03-13-2005, 09:05

Brunflo is correct Blunflo is spelling mistake :embarassed: (and I missed it for like forever :dizzy2: ).

Eastside Character

03-23-2005, 22:37

Hey all, I have some things corrected, some to correct prehaps...

Stockholm
http://i158.exs.cx/img158/6941/mcxx0014dx.th.jpg (http://img158.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img158&image=mcxx0014dx.jpg)

from Kalmar to Abo
http://img161.exs.cx/img161/8804/mcxx0024cb.th.jpg (http://img161.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img161&image=mcxx0024cb.jpg)

some other view on Sweden
http://img161.exs.cx/img161/6922/mcxx0036se.th.jpg (http://img161.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img161&image=mcxx0036se.jpg)
So it is Brunflo, and I changed Goteborg to Alvsborg too.

and here, a more Norwegian view
http://img89.exs.cx/img89/4640/mcxx0049he.th.jpg (http://img89.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img89&image=mcxx0049he.jpg)

I'm wondering if Bergen is OK? Is it? I mean I doubt it is 100% correct to be honest.
http://img89.exs.cx/img89/8093/mcxx0050sj.th.jpg (http://img89.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img89&image=mcxx0050sj.jpg)

The North, the question is if it should be there possible to have ports or not?
http://img89.exs.cx/img89/167/mcxx0063af.th.jpg (http://img89.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img89&image=mcxx0063af.jpg)

A different story here, the whole Massive Centrale area redone.
http://img196.exs.cx/img196/9290/mcxx0076nk.th.jpg (http://img196.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img196&image=mcxx0076nk.jpg)

Bordeaux's port at the mouth or Garonne river.
http://i137.exs.cx/img137/6456/mcxx0084lo.th.jpg (http://img137.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img137&image=mcxx0084lo.jpg)

The Alps have been reworked as well, they are more massive and elevated now.
http://img32.exs.cx/img32/6624/mcxx0093ul.th.jpg (http://img32.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img32&image=mcxx0093ul.jpg)

That's all for now. I'm waiting for your comments and corrections.

Regards
EC

Narayanese

03-24-2005, 04:43

Bergen was founded in th 12th century, and was an important merchant city, exported mostly dried fish.
http://hem.passagen.se/anfreas/stadshansor.htm
Maybe you've placed it a bit too far south, I don't know.
You might consider if western norway shouldn't be more mountainous, the norwegian coast, except Bohuslän (near Göteborg) and the Oslo fjord, is mostly mountains after all, almost no flat land.

It seem there was no mayor port in Österbotten, a few small illegal ones (for food import - österbotten has almost no farms - and export of fur and animal fat), and a medium big port (not big but bigger than just a fishing village) in today's Vasa/Vaasa.
I can't find any refernence of anything other than fishing village ports in västerbotten/norrbotten, so I suppose they didn't have any big port.
So I think Österbotten should have Vasa as fishing village and Västerbotten shouldn't have any port at all, but I don't have good sources for that.

Öland (the island outsida Kalmar) has alvar (~steppe) on the southern part of it, that part south (but not including) the point of Öland that is due east of Kalmar. The terrain there is a little grass and flowers and very shallow soil, I think it should be "Low Fertility" grassland.

kanal means channel btw :bow:

SwordsMaster

03-24-2005, 15:03

Looks good enough to me, although Bourdeaux port is actually in Bourdeaux and Orleans is spelled Orleans.

Eastside Character

03-24-2005, 20:44

Hey, here are some new changes:

Denmark and some islands.
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/8481/image19ij.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image19ij.jpg)

Norway, more mountainous and with redone fjords.
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/3615/image26yn.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image26yn.jpg)

northern Norway, some pretty cold place they say, and mountainous too.
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/3249/image32ec.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image32ec.jpg)

closer view on Bergen, I'm now only not sure where to place its port as there is very little space there
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/1797/image43tl.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image43tl.jpg)

Trondheim and its surroundings
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/9827/image52ia.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image52ia.jpg)

Central Europe, redone to a certain extent
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/7742/image62xy.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image62xy.jpg)

Carpathian Mountains
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/1188/image70fp.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image70fp.jpg)

Alps, again
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/5746/image82uv.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image82uv.jpg)

Venice, placed on a sorf of 'island', and still not really an island
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/4006/image91vg.th.jpg (http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=image91vg.jpg)

So I think Österbotten should have Vasa as fishing village and Västerbotten shouldn't have any port at all, but I don't have good sources for that.
Done.

kanal means channel btw
Funny enough, in my mother tongue, kanal means channel. But what's the whole point abour kanal, I mean I don't think I asked what that means?

Looks good enough to me, although Bourdeaux port is actually in Bourdeaux and Orleans is spelled Orleans.
That about Bordeaux, I think you know a port cannot be placed inside of a city, but there even has to be a 1 tile space (minimum ofcourse) between a port and a city, hence I placed Bordeaux's port as near as I it is actually possible.

About Orleans, thanks I will correct it very soon.

Regards
EC

Narayanese

03-24-2005, 23:27

Nice, now Norway just just as forbidding as in the atlas. Stockholm and Brunflo also looks fine. Good work! I also like the Venice "island", I think it's the closest you can get to that little protected island Venice is situated upon.

But what's the whole point abour kanal, I mean I don't think I asked what that means? Nevermind, I just saw I hadn't translated it in a previous post.

SwordsMaster

04-09-2005, 17:51

Eastside Character

04-09-2005, 23:07

EC, would it be possible to change the "wall" model on the campaign map to something different? Redoubts per example.

I think we are not going to include wooden walls in cities. The only settlement of importance with wooden walls at the time was the Sich as far as I remember.

So there is no point including wooden walls in the campmap. Instead replacing the "wooden wall" icon with the "stone wall" one, and replacing the "stone wall" with the "redoubt". And the same should apply to the building roster, except for the Sich that would start with wooden walls.

What do you guys think?

Yes, it is possible, but I think we should do a different trick here. I'm saying we don't need ANY rtw castles/settlements/walls models, we have to have new ones. Thats the best solution. Actually, all models which will appear on the camp map should be our own and not rtw ones.

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

04-09-2005, 23:21

Yes, it is possible, but I think we should do a different trick here. I'm saying we don't need ANY rtw castles/settlements/walls models, we have to have new ones. Thats the best solution. Actually, all models which will appear on the camp map should be our own and not rtw ones.

Regards
EC

Well, yeah, that would be the best option, but that is a bit ambitious, so I thought that even if we can reuse some of them it would be good enough.

Of course if it is possible to redo them all, that would be just great.

Templar Knight

04-30-2005, 12:02

why not have the capital of lowland Scotland as Edinburgh and the Capital of the highlands Inverness rather than the two cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh so close together. It would allow for some nice highland battles as the enemy drew nearer to Inverness ~:)

Eastside Character

05-01-2005, 21:51

I'm experimenting with map's textures:

http://img234.echo.cx/img234/7039/000newtexture16gt.th.jpg (http://img234.echo.cx/my.php?image=000newtexture16gt.jpg)http://img217.echo.cx/img217/7413/000newtexture26wx.th.jpg (http://img217.echo.cx/my.php?image=000newtexture26wx.jpg)http://img217.echo.cx/img217/4562/000newtexture35bh.th.jpg (http://img217.echo.cx/my.php?image=000newtexture35bh.jpg)http://img217.echo.cx/img217/5631/000newtexture43wd.th.jpg (http://img217.echo.cx/my.php?image=000newtexture43wd.jpg)

http://img217.echo.cx/img217/5514/000newtexture55ut.th.jpg (http://img217.echo.cx/my.php?image=000newtexture55ut.jpg)http://img217.echo.cx/img217/3492/000newtexture62xy.th.jpg (http://img217.echo.cx/my.php?image=000newtexture62xy.jpg)http://img217.echo.cx/img217/5927/000newtexture72ri.th.jpg (http://img217.echo.cx/my.php?image=000newtexture72ri.jpg)http://img217.echo.cx/img217/6880/000newtexture84ei.th.jpg (http://img217.echo.cx/my.php?image=000newtexture84ei.jpg)

why not have the capital of lowland Scotland as Edinburgh and the Capital of the highlands Inverness rather than the two cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh so close together. It would allow for some nice highland battles as the enemy drew nearer to Inverness
Hmm, maybe its a good idea, but I'm not a Scottish expert. Any experts for this one?

Sincerely
EC

Templar Knight

05-02-2005, 11:42

Im a Scottish expert ~:)

AlexPeters

05-02-2005, 22:25

Some questions and proposals:
I've seen this city in Northern Germany, called Klin, well, i've never heared about before. There's the city of Kiel, quite important during the 1st and 2nd WW as a military harbour. But as far as i'm remembering its importance came from the circumstance that it is located on the eastern entrance of the North Sea - Baltic Sea Channel and this channel was build about 1900, before the city wasn't of any importance.
The rulers of Schleswig og Holstein as the area was called in Danish (Schleswig-Holstein in nowadays German) have lived in Gottorf, Schleswig or Glücksburg (near Flensburg) and as far as i know you'd better choose Schleswig as the main city there.
I've added a map of the area:
Map of Northern Germany (http://www.lauritzen-hamburg.de/fotosekke/karte_nordeutschland.jpg)

Another proposal, also Northern Germany:
There's a mountain area south of Brunswick (in German: Braunschweig), it's called the Harz and it's peak is about 1200m, it's quite impressive and a topographic mark that was quite important. It's almost impassable and cuts together with the river Elbe the area in two halfs. The western part later becomes the english owned Hannover and the eastern part belonged to Brandenburg/Prussia.
You can see the topographie here:
Mountain area of the Harz (Panorama) (http://www.tu-berlin.de/fb9/iwawi/Exkursionen/Harz2001/Harz.jpg)
and another map here:
Mountain area of the Harz (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/baedeker_n_germany_1910/harz_mountains_1910.jpg)

Alex

Eastside Character

05-03-2005, 13:06

Im a Scottish expert ~:)

Oh, then it will be Iverness as you suggested.

Some questions and proposals: (...)

Thanx a lot for your corrections, I will adjust the map. Sorry for the many mistakes. :bow:

SICILY AND SOUTHERN ITALY
And some other thing concerning the regions.
I was looking at the whole map lately and the only place I'm not really content with is Sicily and southern Italy. I think Puglie should be merged with Calabria, as Reggio was not that important a city at all. Instead I'd like to see Messana or/and Syracuse in Sicily, as they were pretty important trade centers and large cities too. Any opinion on that?

Regards
EC

SwordsMaster

05-03-2005, 14:32

SICILY AND SOUTHERN ITALY
And some other thing concerning the regions.
I was looking at the whole map lately and the only place I'm not really content with is Sicily and southern Italy. I think Puglie should be merged with Calabria, as Reggio was not that important a city at all. Instead I'd like to see Messana or/and Syracuse in Sicily, as they were pretty important trade centers and large cities too. Any opinion on that?

How many regions do we have in Sicily? if we have only 1 (Palermo?) then we could add another one, but considering relative sizes of the Italian peninsula and Sicily, I wouldnt go further than that.

Besides, are there any free region slots left?

regards

Ranika

05-03-2005, 14:51

Ireland looks a bit empty. One of the notable features of this period's Ireland was numerous thick forests (Irish raiders commonly struck enemies in ambushes, and withdrew into the thick forests where they couldn't be followed). The northwest portion of Ireland is particularly hilly, and was difficult to manuever in (one of the reasons Connacht, even under British dominion, operated often a bit autonomously, because the British trouble moving through the territory to solidify rule). Taking Irish provinces should maybe seem a bit 'needlessly' complex due to the terrain; terrain issues made capturing and keeping regions of Ireland a severe pain.

Eastside Character

05-03-2005, 22:46

Besides, are there any free region slots left?

All regions but 3 are now used in campaign. I left those 3 for final touches when there will be all major regions issues solved and set in stone. It is the time we can use those 3 slots.

Ranika, thanks for your feedback. I will rework Ireland soon.

Regards
EC

Eastside Character

05-08-2005, 15:08

http://img225.echo.cx/img225/8125/000014ac.jpg

http://img135.echo.cx/img135/8932/000021sg.jpg

http://img135.echo.cx/img135/523/000039iz.jpg

streety

05-19-2005, 15:23

Hi y'all

I'm primarily involved in P&M MTW, but, as a keen historian, I thought I'd offer some advice on the British campaign map for the 16th and 17th century RTW version.

Though all the towns you use certainly existed in those times, and I appreciate that you need to divide the map up in certain ways etc, you are missing Bristol, which was still the second British city after London, and during these times Bristol was key in both military campaigns and trade, both with the Old World and in founding and developing the New. Cardiff is just not relevant to any key issues of these periods. If you must have a Welsh town then I'd suggest you use Pembroke, but Wales (and the borderlands) up and through this period was still all actually adminstered from Ludlow (which by the way is still today a massive castle and beautiful walled town) just slightly over the modern "border" in England, in the county of Shropshire. I say "border" in speech marks because since Platagenet times, Wales (subjugated to the English throne) was styled a Principality, and on such a technicality is not a country in the same way as Scotland still is (our united kingdom being a mutually agreed union between the English and Scottish kingdoms).

Of the other towns you use, in addition to London, Oxford, York and Nottingham (and, up in Scotalnd, Edinburgh) are all key places for this period, but not really Canterbury, Preston or Winchester. So, I'd suggest you remove Winchester in favour of Bristol, and remove Cardiff in favour of Ludlow (or Pembroke).
Hope this helps. :dizzy2:

Taffy_is_a_Taff

05-21-2005, 19:42

so far, I have to say (after reading the first page) that Ireland deserves more provinces, Scotland is about right.

England probably did not contain the majority of the populace of the British Isles until the end of the 18th century or so (massive immigration from the other nations probably helped in this as they ended up with lower populations and England got a higher population).

Also, Cardiff should not be the city in Wales. Somewhere like Carmarthen would be far more important for the time.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

05-21-2005, 19:45

Comments on page 2:
Glasgow should have a port.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

05-21-2005, 19:51

Page 3:
Streety: a kingdom does not make a nation. Consider the chunks of culturally Welsh England that suddenly appeared after Henry VIII's tinkering. Ludlow was very much on the border of Welsh and English culture. Loads of places in the English border counties have had their Welsh names replaced by new English names over the last few centuries. Definitely a cultural border even if the political borders were altered by various English monarchs.

Anyway, I say Carmarthen for the Welsh city as it was very important at the time: politically and economically.
Caerfyrddin is the Welsh spelling at the moment. I will investigate older spellings.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

05-21-2005, 19:55

Streety,
Actually, seeing as I was mentioning Welsh culture on the "wrong" side of the political border I should probably mention that I think Dr Robert Owen Jones has done work on these communities and I've definitely heard that they existed into the Victorian period. Again, I'll try to find out more about this.
A bit off topic I know, sorry.

streety

05-22-2005, 23:35

Hi y'all,

Cheers Taff, though please note that actually I was careful not to use the word "nation" myself, because of it's potential ethnic connotations rather than purely geopolitical ones. And my use of "border" in quotes was partly because I too feel its a synthetic line across the land where in truth places like Shropshire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire, Montgomeryshire etc, etc, had long been something of a mix. And much of South Wales had long been a mix too.

Anyway: in trying to offer RTW people some 16th-17th century of-the-period geopolitical advice. Yes, Carmarthen may indeed be a more naturalistic choice for positioning the Welsh castle/capital in the game, and if (because of game constraints) the castle/capital needs to be in Wales, then Carmarthen or maybe Caernarfon would do admirably. But through this period, Wales itself doesn't exert a separate geopolitical force. From 1416 and the end of Glyn Dwr's civil war (I say "civil war" rather than "Welsh Rebellion" because some Welsh sided for the English crown), until 1536, when that year's "Act of Union" abolished use of the Welsh language in courts etc, and began dissolving the monasteries etc, Welsh identity thence got increasingly subsumed within that of England, and the various people in Wales, when they did fight, fought for various competing "English" factions rather than as any separate unified identity against the English. The notion of a Welsh nationhood identity thence didn't begin to recover from the English thumb until the 18th century. The administrative capital (of Wales and the Welsh border counties of England) through this 16th-17th century period was Ludow, so (given the simplistic constraints of the game) it might be best to loop the Welsh border-line around Shropshire (and upset English sensitivities). However, militarily, Harlech and/or Pembroke would be good choices (and both are in Wales proper). The first "English" Civil War formally ended on 13th March 1647 when Harlech castle fell to the Roundheads, and the Second "English" Civil War started when Pembroke castle (under the Roundhead govenor, Colonel Poyer) declared for the King in February 1648, and sized most of Pembrokeshire. So perhaps, for game play, Ludlow (with the border moved out to include it in "Wales and the Marches" (or some such title), or Pembroke, and/or Harlech, would be the best way for these guys to go, if they're at all interested....... :dizzy2:

SwordsMaster

05-23-2005, 09:48

Guys, this is the campaign map development thread, so please dont wander off subject. It makes it much easier to read and understand if you just state what should be changed and why and discuss the other topics in the research or general threads.

So, is there agreement or not on the representation of Wales?

Cheers ~:cheers:

streety

05-23-2005, 14:47

Taffy_is_a_Taff

05-23-2005, 22:35

Sorry, to continue on this topic if it bothers anyone. This little piece concerns the city/castle in the Scottish Highlands and in Wales.
Streety may be the only person interested in this...

Wales may not have had a separate geo-political force but it did have a distinct ethnic identity (although some English in Vale of Glamorgan, parts of the border -especially Radnorshire (Sir Faesyfed)- and Flemish/English in southern Pembrokeshire, although George Owen was complaining in the 16th century about the number of Irish people living in Pembrokeshire)), and, like the Cornish and Scottish Gaels, probably took into account which English/British side was more sympathetic to their culture taken choosing their allegiances (look at the Welsh in the Wars of the Roses, the Cornish in the English Civil War/War of the Three Kingdoms, the non-Calvinist Scottish Gaels with the Jacobites etc.).
Which brings me nicely to the Highlands issue again: the capital should NOT be Inverness, it should be somewhere in the Hebrides.

With Henry VIII the distinctions between the principality and the Marches were done away with and, like Streety said, the council of Wales had administrative and legal powers over Wales (except for Monmouthshire)until the late 17th century but was based in Ludlow (just inside England).
So I say, if going for realistic geo-political stuff you should have Monmouth taken out of the Welsh political boundary and should think about placing Ludlow just inside the Welsh border. If not I say go for Carmarthen as it was pretty much the most important Welsh town in the early modern period as well has having a good castle. If not Carmarthen or Ludlow then it should be Denbigh (Dinbych), Brecon (Aberhonddu)or Caernarfon(Welsh is the same).
If you're interested the older Welsh name for Ludlow was Dinan and then Llystwysoc and is now Llwydlo.

streety

05-23-2005, 22:39

Thank you Taffy, I'd concur with your above take on the general situation.
~:cheers:

Bar Kochba

05-23-2005, 22:40

when will this mod actually come out

SwordsMaster

05-23-2005, 23:16

Sorry Swordmaster, but I thought I was indeed merely (and taff too for the most part) explaining the what and the why - its just that the "why" part can be a very complex issue for this period. However, the fact that you still refer only to Wales rather than Wales and the Marches, nor refer to earlier info we proffered on other parts of Britain, makes me wonder if I've been read or understood, and certainly these research efforts have not been appreciated nor, seemingly, all that politely responded to. :cry:

Sorry If I wasnt polite enough. My bad. ~:cheers:
I was referring to Wales only because the discussion apparently started about placing or not a city in Wales or the actual administrative centre in the english territory, am I wrong?

deathtoallhumans The MTW version of the mod is already out, you can check the general thread or the announcement in the Engineers Guild.

The RTW edition is in its very early stages as quite a few members and contributors have summer exams and dont have time for pretty much anything. Also we are waiting (kinda) for the expansion to come out in the hope for greater modding flexibility.

Cheers :bow:

streety

05-24-2005, 06:42

Yes Swordmaster: Shift (if possible) the border of Wales out around Ludlow and make Ludlow its capital but call it "Wales and the Marches" or some such thing. The rest is all "why", but there's other advice therein for options on castles and ports etc, particularly so if you can't do the above - its just that Wales in that period is a particularly complex issue. Hope you also like the other suggestions we gave for Britain (e.g. Bristol etc). :book:

I'll be happy to check out the MTW version ~:)

Anyway, fewer mods, more beer. ~:cheers:

oj121

05-26-2005, 15:45

New to the forum and im from South Wales myself and ima bout to graduate from uni with a medieval history degree so maybe i can help a little. Although the time period is a few hundred years after my specialist area, i dont think its would be right to impose Ludlow as the captial city in that region, i believe that as the main castle in Wales was Caernarfon, or even Carmarthan then it should be between those to places as the center. It also important to take into account that Carmarthan was the Welsh capital a long time before Cardiff was even founded, as the Cardiff as is seen today was nothing more than a fishing port up until 100 years ago.

SwordsMaster

05-26-2005, 16:57

Thanks oj121 and welcome to the forums! ~:cheers:

I know nothing about welsh history etc and I guess very few of the team do, so any info is welcome.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

05-26-2005, 18:19

To be honest, it's really got to be Ludlow or Carmarthen.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

05-26-2005, 18:20

Ludlow: council of Wales based here. This pretty much was the all Wales authority at the time.

Carmarthen: most important town in Wales at the time.

Ellesthyan

06-07-2005, 21:51

Hi Eastside Character! It's magnificent what you've achieved with the Dutch islands, something I haven't seen in any other mod.

On the subject of the port for Groningen: you should add the western portion of Friesland to the Ommelanden and use the location of Harlingen (it was a very important port for the trade with Scandinavia). Also, you might consider giving Breda a port on one of the delta islands if it is reasonably possible (Vlissingen and Zierikzee spring to mind as powerful ports); otherwise a port in the region where nowadays Rotterdam lies (though a little inaccurate, the region was littered with numerous, productive fishing cities like Vlaardingen and Schiedam).
The Netherlands were a sickingly powerful naval nation, carrying the cargo of the known world from it's producers to it's consumers, and back again, while making massive amounts of money.The fleet itself did at one time outnumber the French and English fleets together! I think it is only fair to represent that with an overdosis of ports ~D Call me nationalistic, but give the Dutch their little time of world domination...

Infestus

06-18-2005, 17:33

Hey Gentlemen,

Im dementor. This is ,my new account :p

Now about Portugal.
Well it's kinda hard to divide Portugal in 2 regions. In my opinion we should divide it in 3 regions. However i don't know if that is possible, or if it would even make sense to the mod.

If it was to be divided in 3 i would advise the following regions:

Estremadura, with the Capital in Lisboa.
Douro, with the Capital in Porto.
Algarve, with the Capital in Faro or Silves (it depends on the starting date. Faro became the capital of Algarve in 1577. Before that the capital was Silves).

The title of the Portuguese King was "King of Portugal and Algarve". Algarve was until 1910 considered as a diferent kingdom, but unified by the same crown, so it makes sense to consider it a region. Also the city of Sagres, in Algarve was one of the greatests scientific centers in Europe, because Infante D. Henrique had founded the Naval School of Sagres, the one that started the Portuguese Discoveries, and was for many years the greatest scientific center in late medieval Europe.

If it is only possible to divide in 2 regions i would say: Portugal with the capital in Lisbon, and Algarve with the capital in Faro or Silves.

About the geographical strucutre i have nothing to say. It looks fine to me.
Keep up the work m8 ~;)
Cheers ~:cheers: ,

Jensemann

02-25-2006, 16:24

HI

There are some changes i would recommend for the map of norway, if its possible of course. Oslo was named Christiania untill 1925 or somewhere around there and Trondheim was named Nidaros. Im not completely sure about the date when these cities changed names, but im sure it was before 1700 when this mod ends.

And another point, a little northwest of oslo is a big lake(the biggest in norway, so its relativly big) kalled "mjøsa" IMO the map of norway looks a bit odd without it.

so now im finished with the complaining:furious3:,I have to say I really look forward to this mod:D

beauchamp

03-01-2006, 16:53

An Idea :idea2: :
If you used the campaign map from like EB or RTR, then you guys could definently include 5 or 6 more factions as well as a working East India company in Hormuz island and have colonization in western and eastern Africa! And, you could include Mecca as a wonder. Just an idea.

Ignoramus

03-02-2006, 02:49

Just a comment, why is there almost no forest in Germany?

Inal_the_Great

03-02-2006, 03:00

Here is my educated guess:

Because Germans cut them down to play throw&catch with their wardogs.

:tomato2:

beauchamp

03-02-2006, 04:11

No forest? then that would explain the whole idea of the Swartzwald :inquisitive:.

cegorach

03-02-2006, 09:34

Forests will be added, but currently RTW edition mod is 'frozen' MTW 2 should activate it, for now MTW edition is beeing made and there is plenty of time and enough of supporters to prepare mTW 2 edition later on. :book: