The Tenki 1v1 2nd Round Vs Table is UP!!! [Archive]

Vanya

05-17-2001, 00:58

Who are these people for which rivers flow from lowlands to highlands and rain falls solely on their crops and not on their playgrounds?

Why should the rules be circumvented to comfort the whim of the aristocracy at the expense of the commoner?

Whoever shall lose their next match to a player they were not supposed to face will have a real beef with the tourney and its hosts. And should one of them advance far or even win it, they will undoubtedly tarnish their reputation (if they have one). I would think that players of this 'calibre' would set an example for the community and vehemently oppose their re-bracketing for the sake of fairness to their fellow players. But alas, I must be mistaken -- about their calibre as leaders, or the tourney as a whole -- for they selfishly looked to their own prospects above those of the tourney. Where is the honor in that?!?

Why set rules then, if they can be broken for the few that are friendly with the hosts? Had I been a player in the tourney, could *I* have had my bracket changed so that I could advance farther? I think not -- you'd laugh me off to the funny farm!

Things like this make me glad to not be participating in this elitist tourney.

Vanya

05-17-2001, 01:00

... Prove me wrong, please!

Puzz3D

05-17-2001, 02:01

TenkiKagutsuchi,

KenchiKikujiro was the runnerup in group 12, and is not listed in the second round table while Hokage was a noshow, but is listed.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

Satake

05-17-2001, 02:31

Yes and KenchiKagetora was first in his group according to warpriest.. where is he?
(btw vanya good post)

ElmarkOFear

05-17-2001, 03:14

By requesting a move to another bracket I am not doing myself a favor . . I will be placed on magya's and kocmoc's side of the draw. I only wanted to make sure that I would not be eliminating a clanmate, and if I am to be moved, my quest for the finals is made much more difficult than before. I will accept whatever decision that Kagu makes without complaining. The one reason I requested it was, in past tournaments brackets were set up so that clan mates would not have to meet until later rounds. I am not sure why you are upset with me Vanya. I am making no request that would give me an unfair advantage over anyone else . . . I am actually making it more difficult for me to reach the finals now.
Clan Tenki, I have nothing but good things to say about how you have handled this tourney and I will abide by the decision you make . . I made only a request not a demand. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I will more than happily throttle dear CapeFear to advance in the tourney, (that is if i get past my first match, it will be tough too). LOL Sorry to have caused any trouble with my request. Just remember, no matter how hard you try, someone will not like the way the tourney was run. I know from experience.

Satake

05-17-2001, 04:16

Elmark my post was not concerning you.. I am just annoyed by the way ppl always do what magy suggests. Read the Tenki post again and maybe you'll see what i was aiming at.

ElmarkOFear

05-17-2001, 04:51

Satake, yes I understand that your post was not concerning me. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif My post was a question to Vanya's post. I hope that my request has not created the perception that the tourney is biased and unfair. I only asked to be moved, due to the precedent set by previous tournies which tried not to have clanmates play each other in the early rounds. Magya and Kocmoc are clanmates now, Kocmoc resigned from the Fear clan for personal reasons, but we will always respect his friendship and skills on the battlefield and wish him luck in the tourney.

Vanya

05-17-2001, 04:51

I went and read the Tenki rules after my last post on this subject... and it seems he just picked matchups based on drawing names from a hat! YIKES!

IF THIS IS SO, the I apologize for my past remarks, since they might have been a tad heavy! But I would think that the winners would already be determined as in:

Winner Red plays Runner-up Green
Winner Green plays Runner-up Blue
...
etc.

This makes the most sense in that winning the group then actually MEANS something!

But given this ad hoc matching, perhaps my remarks were unfounded and made out of ignorance. :P The match-making still leaves a lot to be desired though, it seems if it is truly this random...

It doesnt change the fact that this kinda behavior stinks though! In a 1v1 tourney, your clanmate is also your competitor! You will have to face them anyway!

So, I am turning the heat down from "HOT" to "MEDIUM"... :lol

NagaoKagetora

05-17-2001, 05:31

Vanya! you are wrong to tone down your remarks! they were an instant reaction to a situation which stinks to high heaven!

I have no problem with the random way in which clan Tenki choose the lineups for the next round...if you come up against a fellow clanmate then so be it! Somebody correct me if im wrong but i believed this wasn't a clan tournament!

This tourny has now moved on to the elimination stages...who you come up against should be totally random as the Tenki's first intended...
if you come up against your mother then hard luck, and if you think there might be the possibility of comming up against your bestest buddy a couple of games down the road because u are in the same bracket!, well then tough luck! deal with it!

The Tenkis have come under pressure to change something which didnt need changing.

At the end of the day it is their tourny and i have already applauded them on many occasions for their good work.

"I have been blind but I begin to see"

Zen Blade

05-17-2001, 07:21

OK....

FIRST OFF, IF YOU ARE NOT IN the final draw of the tourney, then please refrane from bad- mouthing KAG and THE TOURNEY. Hell, if you didn't even play in the tourney, then you should refrane from making any comment. THIS IS TO VANYA.

Second:

I am not sure what is up with the Kenchi problem, but I will look into it and get it straightened out. There was some miscommunication regarding winners and such from one group. (which will remain anonyomous and I would appreciate players keeping a cool head. Follow Kagetora's example in his FIRST post.)
That was KenchiKagetora and KenchiKikujiro.

Third:
I lobbied for the change in the brackets and purposely advised the switch of Elm, Koc, Magyar and Cape b/c of the clan situation. THIS IS Stated in the rules somewhere that we WILL DO OUR BEST TO AVOID CLAN MATES FIGHTING EACH OTHER (mainly in the early rounds). I would not want to battle another Tenki in the early rounds, and I respect other such requests if at all feasible. This request was.

4th:
I would have lobbied for this switch on behalf of anyone, regardless of who they might be. I see this as a fair practice. If you do not, feel free to explain to me why it is not.

5th:

I have heard complaints about our ad-hoc way of setting up the tables, and then I hear complaints about changing the tables... Most of these complaints seemed to be aimed "you're only doing this to make some ppl advance further". These are completely contradictory in nature. Plus, the second one is NOT true.

6th:
If you don't like what we have done, please come up with a good, rational argument as to why it is bad.

I see no reason to force clanmates to battle one another in the early rounds of a tournament, especially when we made a point of not having clanmates battle each other in the first round.

The switch solved two problems at once.
If you have any more comments to make, please tone DOWN the language or you might find a rather short-tempered Zen Blade in the near future.

a rather UPSET Zen Blade b/c of remarks that are intended to disgrace our honor and not actually come up with a solution to a problem that those ppl who made the remarks have.

-Zen Blade

------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

TenkiKagutsuchi

05-17-2001, 08:25

Thanks Zen, yes it was done to solve 2 problems not 1

Magy mentioned about playing kocmoc, early on, but i dismissed it...and rightly so, then Elmo also mentioned that he was playing a clan m8 early on.... So, on the advice of a Tenki Clan m8 I swaped em, match and all well, given that they now both face tougher competition for the switch...
AND if i had picked it out like that in the first place, you would have been none the wiser!!!

Clan Tenki and myself, organised this tournament, to thank the community and show that we all are a good collection of peeps, It was open to all for a fair period of time

I don't get paid or receive favour from doing it.. and its hard work, especially with the server going down!!

PPL won't like this and you can't please evrybody, but.. If you don't like how its run or the hosts running it, then P**s off

As to KenchiKagetora, and KenchiKikujiro...

Sorry guys, i have already spoken the Kage'
and told him i will be putting his name in its rightfull place, and I will also place KenchiKikujiro in aswell, as they both earn't the right to progress!

HOWEVER I WILL BE ALTERING THE Vs TABLE SLIGHTLY SO THEY DONT HAVE PLAY EACH OTHER STRAIGHT AWAY LIKE IT OR LUMP IT!!!

Kag

ElmarkOFear

05-17-2001, 08:33

I would thank you kag and zen, but now i must fact MAGYARKHAN if i win my first match!!! LOL Reminds me of that saying . . "Watch what you wish for because you just might get it!!" hehe I once again would like to thank the Tenki clan for hosting an excellent tourney . . . congratulations!! ElmarkOFear

Puzz3D

05-17-2001, 09:26

TenkiKagutsuchi,

Thanks for correcting the omission of the two Kenchi players.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

EuroSan

05-17-2001, 10:57

No slaggin here...just my feeling to the changing on the drawing of the battles.....whats the diffrent with Koc vs Magy or Koc vs Daerel??............they are all Clan mates, so that change makes no sense..... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
An truely you shouldn´t change an drawning after its done...just how i feel...no disregard to you guys at Tenki..just wanted to say my taughts!

See y on Sunday!!

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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

[This message has been edited by EuroSan (edited 05-17-2001).]

Zen Blade

05-17-2001, 12:39

Euro,

The main difference is where the clanmates come into conflict. If you consider DaRealRuler and Koc in the same clan, then you will notice that they meet in the quarters as opposed to the second round with Koc and Mag. Plus, the Fears no longer meet each other in the second round.

Just, if I may digress...

As some of you know, you did not have to put down your clan name. And if you did not, then we do not recognize you as being in the same clan as someone else of your clan. (this applied to several ppl). But, if you do/did put down your clan name... the reason was so that we could avoid clan member fighting clan member early on. (this being said, I don't know if DaRealRuler and Koc put down the same clan name or not. Regardless, we will not make a change in this instance.)

-Zen Blade

------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[This message has been edited by Zen_Blade (edited 05-17-2001).]

Satake

05-17-2001, 13:57

Ok get ready for some quoting.

Vanya :
and it seems he just picked matchups based on drawing names from a hat!
- Yes he did and that was good. What is unfair is that they are swapping now. It is all done randomly so deal with where you are.

Kagetora :
Well i could quote his entire block here. I couldn't agree more.

Zen Blade :
I lobbied for the change in the brackets and purposely advised the switch of Elm, Koc, Magyar and Cape b/c of the clan situation. THIS IS Stated in the rules somewhere that we WILL DO OUR BEST TO AVOID CLAN MATES FIGHTING EACH OTHER (mainly in the early rounds).
- Why? it was RANDOM... I can think of a few bracketts i would rather be in to but am i making a fuss out of that? no. Some friends are not clan related , some clan related are not friends. Who's to tell which is what? this is why the random option should be there - and should be maintained.

Zen as to looking for a solution - simple. Change it back the way it was and i'll keep my mouth shut. Kag as to it being picked out differently - i would not be posting here right now if u did. What disturbs me is that a random pick is now totaly disregarded. Can i now choose too where i want to play? I am sure i could find a more pleasant brackett if i looked real hard.

Zen :
The main difference is where the clanmates come into conflict. If you consider DaRealRuler and Koc in the same clan, then you will notice that they meet in the quarters as opposed to the second round with Koc and Mag. Plus, the Fears no longer meet each other in the second round.

- So if anyone of them gets eliminated this was all pointless. how nice.

Sorry if i may sound rude and annoying to some of you. Tenkis , i would like to know this : Will or will you not be keeping this change in effect? If so , I hereby resign my place in the tournament.

RaZoRstrike

05-17-2001, 19:38

We have all forgotten that this tourney is about having fun! This is the Tenki's Tourney if they feel the need to advance someone all the way to the finals, then so be it. This is an opportunity to play the best players in the game under a controlled setting. What more can we as honourable warriors ask for. "To play someone that has a legitimate chance of winning. Every game is a challange." not some newbie that does not have a prayer.

I have a serious complaint about the tourney being on Mother's Day. This caused me to have to withdraw and not have the opportunity to advance. I did not complain or whine about this because it is their tourney. It was my decision to play or not.

If someone feels so strongly about the change of schedule to withdraw. I will gladly take their spot.

Remember this game is about fun. This type of serious discussion does nothing but create stress and anger in a game that I use to relieve stress acquired from the real world. Be polite and have fun with whoever you play and maybe learn something new.

Good Luck to everyone who advanced and have fun.

Thanks,
RaZoRstrike

Puzz3D

05-17-2001, 21:31

TenkiKagutsuchi,

Since the two Kenchi were omitted from the original drawing, this is a reason to repeat the drawing. I believe you have to make the pairings in a random way so as not to appear to be playing favorites.

Also, what group did Hokage compete in? He was supposed to be in my group #12, and didn't show up.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

Satake

05-17-2001, 21:40

I can live with Puzz3d's idea. I apologize for having caused a stirr and hope ppl won't remind me as a moaner or winer http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Obake

05-17-2001, 21:59

I had no idea that winning that damn Tanto was so important to everyone! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif to you all http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Having not yet had the opportunity to play in any of the Tourney's (helped host a couple though) I'm going to add in my thoughts for what little they are worth.

Tenki is totally within their rights to modify the brackets so that clanmates don't have to fight each other at this point. Second round is still early in my opinion no matter what anyone says, and you are all entitled to disagree with me (you're still wrong though... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ).

Where I see the mistake having been made, is in switching things around after they have already been announced to the community (and missing the Kenchi players, but that's a whole different story). I have NO doubt that Tenki is doing everything in their power to ensure a fun and FAIR tournament. Anyone who doubts this should never have entered in the first place.

Yes I agree that the switch of Kocmoc and Elmark COULD create the illusion of impropriety or favoritism but is there really anyone here who believes that THAT is the reason it was done? If so, you may want to re-read all of the Tourney threads and take another look at your position. Tenki's honor is beyond reproach, especially where this Tournament is concerned! If your contention is just the fact that things were changed, that is understandable, but the decision Tenki's to make. Remember that all this is about their decision to GRANT a REQUEST that fell WITHIN the Rules of the Tournament.

Yes it would have been much easier had the complete bracketing been set up prior to the Tournament getting started, but hindsight is always 20/20. Who among us could have possibly imagined that there would be 150 entrants into the Tournament? How many of us feel that they could have done a better job than Tenki has done, and if so, why haven't you?

Complaints aside, there are now 4 options that are left to Tenki. The first option is to leave things as they are. The second would be to return to the original bracketing. The third option would be to re-draw the entire bracket. The last option would be to say the hell with all of you, call off the Tournament and go home!

Personally I think Option 3 is the most viable. I say this because there are still 2 members of Kenchi who were supposed to have advanced to round 2 that were not included in the brackets (near as I can tell). From what I saw at the Tourney Web site, there were also two people who advanced that were in essence left to the side to fight each other to decide who would fill in in case someone didn't make the next round.

Accomodations can now be made for all 4 of these players. Options 1 and 2 are going to piss somebody off and option 3 stands in my mind is the least offensive of the options.

Option 4 is still available to Tenki as well and I can't say that I would blame them one bit. There was nothing but praise for them during and after round 1 but look at how quickly many of you have turned on them when it came to a decision that you didn't like! If I were in your shoes I am sure that I wouldn't be happy about it either, but by the same token, this Tournament is THEIR gift to us; and we complain about it. You should all be ashamed. Is that what you call honor?

Make your choice on how you want to respond to Tenki's decision regarding the brackets, that is your right. But don't go after them with threats and implications of impropriety because you don't like what they decide!

------------------
Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

EuroSan

05-17-2001, 22:28

Hi RaZoRstrike!
For fun..so why do they cry for going to meet there clan mate in say 3rd round..
--------------------------------------------
To Zen.
Its an non clan tourney and you CAN´T favorit some people....and that has been done here!!!
I mean...........if Liverpool and Arsenal got drawed to meet in an early stage in UEFA cup......will they change that for them, just becuse they are from England both of them?????? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

I will follow Satake and resign my place to...if the change isn´t changed back to the random one........

Ps.Early stage is the group play and we have gone past that stage!!.d.s

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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

[This message has been edited by EuroSan (edited 05-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by EuroSan (edited 05-17-2001).]

TenkiKagutsuchi

05-17-2001, 22:31

Ok, based on what Satake has said...

This is a sensitive subject and it will not please everybody!!

Even so if Satake wants to go on and resign his place BECAUSE we have made the changes then so be it, to change them back would surely infuriate more ppl.. who i might add have accepted gracfully what has happened and not slated our efforts

You have asked us to STOP changing things around So we will STOP

Things will stay as they are...

If you want to drop out, then i will, as will others i think understand your discision

IF SO please reply here or email me, and i will find a replacment for you

Sorry it has come to this, and to those who will remain, i hope we can have some FUN from it

TenkiKagutsuchi

Daimyo of Clan Tenki-Okibi

TenkiKagutsuchi

05-17-2001, 22:40

Having thought about it some more... i have the following suggestion

Before anyone decides to resign and lose the essence of the tournament (to have fun).we could if ppl agree to it RE-DRAW for the Vs table

And then leave it settled...

This is being suggested because a tournament is designed to allow everybody to face Tough challenges whilst having fun. I hope this is greeted with... 'finally a decent and fair solution!'

This i think is a good compromise...please reply here with whether you think its a good idea or not

TenkiKagutsuchi

Daimyo of Clan Tenki-Okibi

Erado San

05-17-2001, 22:45

As someone who is not in the tourney I have no say in the matter. But whatever I have to say is therefore totally unbiased as well.

It appears to me that the switch was made for valid reasons and it is covered in the rules.

The switch itself was perhaps not very smart, because you could expect this kind of argument.

I'd say leave everything as it is now, or change it back to what it originally was.

Definetely don't change anything after the next round. The draw should be final.

Everybody who feels he has been treated badly, remember this: to win the tourney you'll have to be able to beat everybody in the end. Whether you face a good player now or in the final makes no difference to the end result.

Rule #1: Have Fun. Don't worry, be happy.

And as a consolation: anybody can beat Magyar. I can, and I have. Not often, but it has happened. Maybe I was lucky, and in one occasion I used the weather to his downfall. It can be done. If I can do it, you certainly can.

EuroSan

05-17-2001, 22:46

Just get it back as it was first drawn.........jesus what are the problem??????

Its not an Favour or Clan Tourney.....
I wouldn´t say S***t if i had to meet EuroDachi in 2th round......a draw is a draw

------------------
May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

Vanya

05-17-2001, 22:55

Geez... the firestorm is brewing! Let me throw some kerosene on it to put it out... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

My comments were made because things like this DO look like favoritism to outsiders. It will potentially jeopardize future participation! And the winner himself, whoever it ends up being, is being victimized because this perceived favoritism undermines what he has accomplished by making him a lame-duck winner if he advanced because of a swap.

AND, the fact the Elmo states PRECEDENT as justification is troubling!! I would think that peeps should strive to set things back on course to counter the effect of the weaknesses of past tourney hosts. An outsider might even go so far as to accuse these innocent rebracketers of abusing the randomness of the system to gain favorable seeding. These acts might be based on genuine sentiments NOW, but they open the door to future abusers. And guess what: it would be OK to abuse the system because THIS TOURNEY set the PRECEDENT!

I hope the tourney goes smoothly, and that nobody should feel hurt by this. But, as an outsider, this DOES weigh on any future decision to participate in a 'tourney' for the 'honor' of playing some unknown 'big-wig'. God forbid somebody were to come out of the wordworks brandishing that most feared of names... (hint, starts with 'c').

And here is my groan of the day: But Mr. Host, because of your favoritist rebracketing, now MY clan m8 has to face Magyar in the next round! BOOOO! Can you swap them so that they will not face until later? You see, they are both brothers under Buddha...

So, Mr. Zen, here is my potential solution:
I recommend that ALL groups have their winners and runner-ups already bracketed before tourney recruiting begins. This way, if you know you are in group A, and you WIN, you WILL play the runner of up group D (or whatever the PREORDAINED matchups are set to). To accomodate this clan groaning, I would simply allow players to lobby for what group they are placed in, and if they do not like it, they can request a change BEFORE the tourney begins. But, after a pre-set date, NO CHANGES are to be made. PERIOD. This eliminates this kind of moaning in the future, and reassures us outsiders that things will proceed in a smooth and orderly fashion. The only randomness then, is in initial group placement. (You can view the whole bracket UP FRONT before its filled in with players.)

Heck, I never saw a team in the NCAA tourney complain about playing a fellow conference team in the first round...

I wish all the luck to the players of the tourney. I just want the little ORG champ icon to MEAN something...

NagaoKagetora

05-17-2001, 23:10

I am not normally an outspoken member of the community but when issues such as this and the ea server pop up, I find it hard to restrain myself!

Zen and Clan Tenki, I apologise if any of my posts have caused you guys offence...that was never my intention! Although it may have seemed that way! I also realise that you guys have a hard enough job without issues such as this. In my posts I was trying to focus my anger on those who created this situation.

Clan Tenki have made a decision, as is their right as Hosts and I can agree or disagree with that decision, as is my right.

IMO the first round was a great success. I also realise that further change at this point can only harm the tournament. I was not included in the second round in error...and this in itself has caused problems for the Tenkis.

I therefore withdraw from the competition and wish the hosts goodluck! When the second round starts may it be as good as the first!

KenchiKagetora

Satake

05-17-2001, 23:55

2 down.. I'm resigning my spot in the tourney. Razorstrike.. may you have much fun with it.

KenchiSatake

Vanya

05-18-2001, 00:37

Obake, you are right. My sole contention is that things were changed to please a few at the expense of others that may not be as 'well known'. That is all.

I for one cannot help but think that had it been me or somebody else that made the request, it would be ignored; but because it was that reknown hungarian mongol dude that made the request, they caved in and justified the rebracketing with previous requests that had been disregarded or muted. So it was in their power to do so -- so what? But it was precipitated by a member of high regard where the voices of others fell of deaf ears. This is the inequality that aroused my sentiments.

My intent was never to question the honor of the Tenkis (although I do not know any of them) or the players themselves. Obviously they acted within their powers, so I am not alleging they broke their own rules.

Perhaps whatever is learned from this tourney will make the next one better.

I agree with you on pursuing #3... that would restore my faith in the tourney as an event.

TenkiWarPRIEST

05-18-2001, 00:50

MY APOLOGIES KENCHI CLAN
The Green Room mix up was my fault as I was asked to look after the room by the Host. He had something come up and would be return shortly.
With the moving around of Warriors because of No shows it bacame slightly confusing.
I recorded your matches but they apparently didn't get relayed correctly. Must be my southern accent:0(
I've been really busy at work and just heard about the mix up lastnight.
Kage-take your place amoung these Impressive Generals and conduct War.

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http://www.hiddenvillage.com/warpriest.htm/warpriest.gif

EuroSan

05-18-2001, 01:03

3 down ....if the change is the standing for Sunday.........

I hold my fingers crossed for y Elmis http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

ElmarkOFear

05-18-2001, 01:40

I never complained about having to play CapeFear, my teammate in the 3rd round. I just asked to be moved so that one of us, would not eliminate the other. I stated my reason and left it up to the Hosts to decide if it was a valid request. It WAS a request, any answer, even a "NO" would have sufficed for me. My statement about PRECEDENT in past tourneys, was again misrepresented. PRECEDENT was my reason for asking, I never demanded to be changed due to PRECEDENT, there is a BIG difference. Whatever is decided, is fine by me, whether it is putting the brackets back to the original, keeping them as they are now, or redrawing the brackets . . I will and DO play anyone because I enjoy the game and the people I play. Once again, I apologize to the Tenkis for unwittingly starting this mess. You have not, and will not hear me complain about anything about your tourney . . to me it is and will be fun whomever I play.
To anyone who is complaining about the Tenki tourney . . If you can do a better job of hosting one . . THEN DO SO . . until then please accept that mistakes may be made. Your quitting the tourney, is only going to make you miss out on the fun of competition among those that you may not normally get to play otherwise.
One last thing, I am insulted that a few people have already decided in their minds on who will make it to the finals . . . I AM GOING TO WIN!!!! LOL Read my posts in the clan forum on how I beat Shadowkill!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
PS. Sans get your butt back in the tourney! I want to show you my new tattoos that my samurai have on their buttocks, so that you will have something nice to look at when they rout off the battlefield.

EuroSan

05-18-2001, 01:57

Elmis...its not the thing about fun...its an MORAL thing, you dont change things on a bracket becuse Pete sampras is going to meet Andre Aggasi in the 2th or 3th round..
Its still an 1v1 Toruney...and not an Clan Tourney--------)Thats my point, i dont care who i will meet i will have fun playing with anyone...but its an MORAL thing....for me its fixing the bracket!
And i dont want to be part of it, if it´s going to be like that!!

Have fun Elims mate..get Cav archers vs Magy http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

QUOTE----------------------------------------
I f were to move you, or CapeFear, i would be asked to move nearly everyone around....

Or even worse..refuse them. This i am sure #you would agree is not an honourable thing to do...#((-----------------my point)

Again i am sorry, i hope it doesn't distract you from having a Fun, if not a Fast paced Tournament!!

TenkiKagutsuchi

Daimyo of Clan Tenki-Okibi
QUOTE END------------------------------------

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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

ElmarkOFear

05-18-2001, 03:26

In tennis, the tournaments are definitely, skewed to keep the best players from eliminating each other in the early rounds due to seedings!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif A better analogy would be . You don't change things on a bracket because Pete Sampras will play Anna Kournikova in the 3rd round! . .oops wait bad analogy . . You don't . . .. . . because Pete Sampras had sex with Andre agassi the week before and he doesn't want to play his new lover now do you? Yeah . . that's a much better analogy i think!!
One question, if it is for fun, where do morals fit in? I like to drink, have sex, gamble, and say lewd things . . . for fun. How do morals fit in with fun? Seems to me morals always take the fun out of anything . . . LOL If I wanted morals I would have married you!! :P hehe
You will be missed in the tourney, and I will use my anti-Magya army, or better yet I will let my first game opponent play him!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

NagaoKagetora

05-18-2001, 03:27

WarPriest!
No apology needed my friend!
I have never had reason to quarrel with a Tenki in the past and I hope that my leaving the competition will not cause bad blood in the future!

KenchiKagetora

ElmarkOFear

05-18-2001, 03:29

Hey wait!!! You are from Sweden!! The home of the budweiser Swedish bikini team. Morals huh? hmmmmmm, maybe I WOULD like your kind of morals. ****ELMARKO BUYING ONE-WAY TICKET TO SWEDEN TO STAY WITH EUROSAN***** LOL

RageFury

05-18-2001, 04:00

I am another one who is not in the tourney but i feel i should add my opinion anyway..

I think a huge mistake has been made here...from what i have seen you Tenki guys have done a briliant job and congratulations for it...despite server problems u have still managed to come up with workin tourney...Nice..

However i gotta agree with San and Satake and all the others.. this was supposed to be a 1V1 tourney...what has ur clan to do with it...u might not like fightin a clan mate but if it is RANDOM pickins then u shut up and live with it or quit..

My main quibble here is not with the Tenki host but with the people who bitch about it in the first place. I have utmost respect for Elmo and he knows it, but i really don't see wtf is the difference between facin a clan mate or not..or facin them in the first or the final rounds

I think u have alienated more people than u have pleased...apart from Elm,Cape,Koc, and Magy [who all may or may not be happy about it] u have managed to piss off just about everyone else in the tourney from what i have bneen hearin..

Again no OFFENCE to Tenki hosts.. i could not have done wot u guys have done...but u say above if u not like the way it is hosted then pi** off...well that should have been said to magy and elm at the start if it was a random pairin system...

-Fury

[wow long post..Obake is a bad influence http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by RageFury (edited 05-17-2001).]

TenkiKagutsuchi

05-18-2001, 05:51

Tenkis have been trying to come up with some solution to the tourney problem that everyone can agree on. Luckily, in the past day
Magyar, Kocmoc, Elmarko, and Cape have talked to us Tenkis and have conveyed
their uneasiness at possibly being percieved as benefitting from the switch in
the tourney bracket. As such they also agree that the switch has done more harm than good. Although not all their fault, but ours

Since there is no longer a request to make a change so that clanmates won't
meet each other in an early round, the bracket will be returned to the original
format. Hopefully, no-one will accuse us favoritism as this solution has
been taken to accomodate the concerns of ALL the tournament players.

Clan Tenki would like to especially thank the aforementioned individuals for
being nice enough and big enough to allow Tenki to without predudice, to change the bracket back to its original format

We would also like to thank all those who have and are still participating in
the tourney for having the patience to ride out this confusion and
frustration. We would also like to thank those who sent e-mails which were
focused on coming up with a fair solution to this dilemma.

As far as the drop outs are concerned, i will understand if you still wish to remain absent at the start of the tourney finals, and if no reply is forwarded, i will ask other tourney entrants who didn't progress, if they wish to be allowed to fill-in!

Those of you who do take part, lets forget this whole mess, and get on with enjoying the games...

I wonder if there will ever be another stw tourney??

TenkiKagutsuchi

Daimyo of Tenki-Okibi

ShadowKill

05-18-2001, 06:21

well i don;t care who i fight. just tell me who it is so i can fight if it be magy then so be it if it be elmo then i will win the nike contract once again just let me play............

------------------
Clan Shades
come by and give us a visit (http://www.geocities.com/shadesofshogun/index.html)
ShadeLord Shiba a member of clan shades

Magyar Khan

05-18-2001, 06:46

who the f... what the f...

i get the feeling people are trying to piss me off in here.

first this:
when i noticed i was facing koc, koc and me had fun about it and we were ready to play. finale or not.

then someone told me the table was changed. who where what when, i went to look and yes it was changed. and again accepting the change.

then i was told by TenkiZen they would change it back, and without an hassle i said no problem. and as i heard koc did too.
--------------------------------
but what the f... do u all want? a very good player to win it or just the most lucky one who miraclously escaped every good player who were eliminating themselves against each other?

what about this?
i play koc in 2nd round
i play dareal in 3rd round
i play lonelywolf in semifinal
and i lose to tankdogg in the final under heavy fog as an attacker trying to find him.

:0) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif :P

and happy we are.
--------------------------
in the .com forum i saw someone talking about a fishy tourney. isnt this more fishy? placing me and koc in the 3rd round against each other when we have won all our games in the first rounds. he should call that fishy. and did i complain about that? on its worse i made a note about it.

i won a tourney before and rejected the price, provided by the honourable host himself. it should show i dont play for a price, i just like the stress for every important battle and thats one of the things why i play. and if i am unlucky to win the tourney i promised earlier to give the sword to the humble EA serverservant Ben who works unpayed for us. So many players dont have a commitment like this to make the game real fun.
But this all makes me extra eager to kick u all across the maps but makes me also dissapointed that i am considering not to show up sunday. i dont need a sword and it would make some people happy too.

just dont mess with a mongol
but
perhaps i should consider it all as a compliment

------------------
http://home-4.worldonline.nl/%7Et543201/web-mongol/mongol-images/mongolsmiley.gif Quote Although the enemy moves fast, a mongol arrow will kill him at last[/QUOTE]

EuroSan

05-18-2001, 09:30

The random bracket is on...ok am staying..

Magy http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif this words is asking for faovouring players
QUOTE----------------------------------------
(Magy)-but what the f... do u all want? a very good player to win it or just the most lucky one who miraclously escaped every good player who were eliminating themselves against each other?
QUOTE---------------------------------------
So what if a good player lose to an non good(by the way who isn´t good in the 2th round????????)Can you tell me that!!!
I think allmost all who are in the 2th round won all there battles Magy my friend http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

Well let s have fun on Sunday.....
Hope you guys at Tenki dont think that i was bitching your name or anything i wasn´t, i just feelt this change was an 100% favouring some people....I appolougise if i made any of you think that!!

Well See y all on Sunday...
P.s.Elimis my friend, if i some how get to the final(wich i dont think)I will give you the win for your Addidas contract, a deal?? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif D.s.

------------------
May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

[This message has been edited by EuroSan (edited 05-18-2001).]

Satake

05-18-2001, 11:02

Changed back.. Good thing. I would like to re-enter the tourney - if that is ok with all. Kage i ask you to reconsider m8. Once again , sorry for causing a stir i hope ppl won't base their judgement of me solely on what i have said here. I'm basicaly a nice dude http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif Magyar - I'm not trying to piss you off or whatever , you're imo one of the best if not the best player of shogun , we go back a long way you and i , but it was the changing of random picked matches that bothered me. If I have caused any uncomfortable feelings for anyone, i apologize.

KenchiSatake

ShadeWraith

05-18-2001, 13:53

I cant see what everyone is whingeing about, just play whoever you are drawn against! That is the essence of a knockout tourney.Magy stated earlier " but what the f... do u all want? a very good player to win it or just the most lucky one who miraclously escaped every good player who were eliminating themselves against each other?"
apologies if I misunderstood but the crux of his argument appeared to be that the games should be fixed to ensure proggression of good players. Thats nonsense,the whole point of a knockout tourney is that sometimes weaker players can make it through to the later stages of competition, it's what gives it its romance. Everyone knew the rules when they signed up so pipe down please http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ShadeWraith (edited 05-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ShadeWraith (edited 05-18-2001).]

Magyar Khan

05-18-2001, 16:06

sigh

ElmarkOFear

05-18-2001, 16:47

To Rage Fury, You think I should piss off? LOL Shame on you for not reading my earlier posts closely. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif If you go read my earlier posts you will see I have not once complained about initial pairings. I only made a request, and stated my reasons. I have never said that the Tenkis were wrong nor complained about the way the tourney has been run. They have done a great job. In another post I said that whatever was decided, a tourney redraw, keeping it as it is now, or putting it back to the original draw is fine by me and I believe that Magyarkhan has done the same thing. Look at our posts, we have agreed to whatever the Tenkis decide. We have asked for no favors, example: I would have had to play Magyarkhan 2nd match with the change!!!

To Shadowkill: I WANT MY NIKE CONTRACT BACK!!!!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

TO Eurosan: I am currently in negotiations with shadowkill for my Nike contract. Not sure what he wants, but he told me to bring some vasaline to the negaotiations. I am much worried!!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

To MAgyarkhan: I don't believe they really understand our point of view. **sigh** http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

EuroDachi

05-18-2001, 17:23

im glad its back to the way it was i couldnt see the point in changing it in the first place and personally i dont care who i fight i only play for fun
if it be EuroSan so be it because it was a random draw

TenkiSenjutsu

05-18-2001, 17:29

Hi guys, Senj here I must say this is quite dissatisfying. I thought this tourney was for samurai's not for beggers and whiners. A 1v1 Tourney means what it says 1v1. A clan affiliation doesn't matter in this scenario. You are fighting for the top slot. Also when people registered your name did you use your clan name? or your personal name?It seems no matter what action we take we will never please everyone. Everyone is so stuck on not wanting to fight magy or koc. It seems everyone is so sure that one of them is going to win.

People drop out because they don't like their brackets? That's crazyness! If you want to drop out because you don't like your brackets that shows me that you guys are weak and shouldn't deserve to be in the tourney anyway. This tourney is for the best of the best. If your wishing for some luck from the gods to be bestowed upon you then you should leave. Take what you are given and do the best you can, if you don't win, simply try again in the next tourney.

ShadeWraith

05-18-2001, 18:12

----------------QUOTE-----------------------

"Sigh"

-----------------QUOTE-----------------------

I must say I find this as a response slightly patronising, or dare I say it arrogant. After re-reading this long and getting longer http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif thread I must say Magy's position to me still appears to be ambiguos on the one hand he states how he is happy to fight anyone
--------------QUOTE-------------------------
when i noticed i was facing koc, koc and me had fun about it and we were ready to play. finale or not.

then someone told me the table was changed. who where what when, i went to look and yes it was changed. and again accepting the change.
------------------QUOTE----------------------

And then he says

------------------QUOTE----------------------

but what the f... do u all want? a very good player to win it or just the most lucky one who miraclously escaped every good player who were eliminating themselves against each other?

------------------QUOTE----------------------

You can't have it both ways either you are in a knockout competition and play whoever you are drawn against: Clanmate, Friend or Mother http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Or you have a seeding system, you can't try to change halfway through. Anyway at least you are all still in the tourney, which is more than I can say http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

P.S Elmarko, Your point of view will remain unclarified if Magy posts replies with juxtaposed opinions, presuming you and Magy share the same opinion http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

L8r, Wraith

Satake

05-18-2001, 18:22

I am VERY tempted by Senj to reply.. but i won't.

ShadowKill

05-18-2001, 18:31

So is everything taken care of now we all happy again. Are we ready to do some killing.

ELMO: NO NO NO NO NO

MAGY: I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WERE SAYING

TO ALL OF YOU:I WILL KILL YOU ALLLLLLLL

------------------
Clan Shades
come by and give us a visit (http://www.geocities.com/shadesofshogun/index.html)
ShadeLord Shiba a member of clan shades

ShadeWraith

05-18-2001, 18:41

Hey Lord m8, told u this was an interesting thread didn't I http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Does that mean ur going to kill me too?

L8r, Wraith

ShadowKill

05-18-2001, 19:45

IM sorry m8 but yes http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

****hours later after being taken to jail****
"The devil made me do i tell you"

------------------
Clan Shades
come by and give us a visit (http://www.geocities.com/shadesofshogun/index.html)
ShadeLord Shiba a member of clan shades

Vanya

05-18-2001, 20:11

I am polishing my arquebuses!

But wait -- my armies lack honor and courage! Heck, my honor is so low that my own troops try to euthanize me on the field of battle! I can honestly say that if it werent for enemy samurai screaming bloody Buddha, I'd be rolling in the grave by now.

[Pounds on inner roof of coffin]
Hey, knock it off up there!! Can't you see I'm trying to rest in peace?!?
[Remarks to himself]: (Why do these stinking peasants like to dance on my grave every stinking night???)

GOOD LUCK TO ALL IN THE TOURNEY!

EuroSan

05-18-2001, 21:14

Hi TenkiSenjutsu
Dont get this text....
"Quote"--------------------------------
#People drop out because they don't like their brackets? That's crazyness! If you want to drop out because you don't like your brackets that shows me that you guys are weak and shouldn't deserve to be in the tourney#
Quote ends---------------------------------

What do you mean....we that was wanting to withdraw/drop wasn´t the guys that wanted the change to be made at the first time of the Bracket??
You make me confused on that text!!
Can you explain it better , please!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

2 more days ...hope we will have fun even taugh we had this arguments....
Elims did we have a Deal?? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

------------------
May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

RageFury

05-19-2001, 00:46

LOL...so Elmo i did not say i think u should piss off...hehe

Wot i said was....the tenki hosts should have told u no when u asked to be moved..that is all...as they said to people earlier on in this thread http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Vanya

05-19-2001, 01:15

Now that I have finished making my comments here, I'd like to end this on a positive note. From the ancient scrolls at the ruins of Nagashima, I have managed to dig up and decipher this little piece of history surrounding the infamous Tenki tourney... Enjoy and have fun!

------

The Tenki Tourney
==============

INTRODUCTION
In the chaos that followed the first Mongol Invasion of Japan, a powerful force emerged in the neigboring island of Hokkaido that would threaten the very existence of the samurai. A massive Ainu army unexpectedly descended on eastern Honshu and slaughtered the splintered clans that stood up to them. Lead by the young and ambitious Llama King, the Ainu army swept over the whole Kwanto, devastating and depopulating a once thriving land. His lust for conquest drove the Llama King to drive on the Imperial palace at Edo, where his Ainu army faced the determined remnants of Lord Hojo's mighty Horde.

The battle that ensued raged on for days, leaving hundreds of thousands of men dead. But Hojo managed to defeat the young King. Destitute and defeated, the Llama King attempted to flee for his worthless life through the highlands of Shinano and Kozuke. But the bitter winter slowly killed off the survivors of his army until there was none left but the young King himself. Famished and at the verge of death, the Llama King made a pact with Buddha: that if he were to spare his life and allow him to conquer his enemies, he would give Buddha his soul in return. Buddha agreed, and provided the young king with a brussel sprout for sustenance. He also granted the king command of his Holy Army of Buddhist Monks. At the head of this holy army, the Llama King tore through the lands of Japan laying waste to all remaining clans in his mad rush for conquest.

But after his men sacked the Imperial palace of Edo (the last Hojo fortress to fall), Buddha swept the Llama King away and forced him to be his servant. And the Holy Army of Buddhist Monks was returned to the sands of Hokkaido, where they would await the return of their commander, the Llama King.

THE TOURNEY
Shinobis of the noble Tenki clan have discovered inroads by Mongol raiding parties into Hokkaido. The local populace alleges they are searching for the lost Buddhist Temple of Emu. At first, the Tenkis dismissed this as mere folklore. But further shinobi missions confirmed that the Mongols believed that the temple really did exist.

If the legend was true, the Tenkis feared that the Mongols, if successful, would enter the cursed temple, awaken the Llama King from his eternal sleep, and seize command of Buddha's Holy Buddhist Monk Army by killing the awakened King so they could conquer the world! But the legend also says that he who takes command of the Holy army can also choose to return it to Buddha.

In haste, the Tenkis sent emissaries to all the clans of Japan, seeking the bravest warriors to join them in an epic journey to the wastelands of Hokkaido in a quest to seek out and destroy the Temple and return the Holy army to Buddha in order to save the world.

Many warriors joined the adventure. But when the Tenkis entered the Temple compound, they soon found out that in the restricted spaces of its labyrinthian corridors, that only a single fighter would be able to face the evil Llama king. Therefore, to ensure that they were to have the best chance of defeating this abomination, the brave samurai of Japan would face off against each other for the right and privilege of awakening and slaying the dormant Llama King.

MAY THE BEST WARRIOR WIN!

[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 05-18-2001).]

ElmarkOFear

05-19-2001, 01:39

To San . . we may have a deal if we can but work out some of the details!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Ok, for starters, I want to be included in the photo shoot for the next "Shogun" Illustrated swim suit addition. Next, I need a supermodel geisha and a luxury sports stallion, . . lastly, I want to obtain the rights to the southern hemisphere moonshine distributorship. If you are accepting of this deal then I will gladly have your name and the adiddas logo tatooed on my samurais butts . . right next to the smiley face!! LOL

Satake

05-19-2001, 01:40

Hehe nice story m8 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Zen Blade

05-19-2001, 04:11

I can't believe that noone figured out our true motive for changing the tourney details....

It was so that Elm would have some company!
: )

I imagine it must get very lonely sometimes here in the Clan forum mate.

btw, have we made longest post yet?

: )

-Zen Blade

------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

Kocmoc

05-19-2001, 04:43

Guys,

there are not many tourney, be happy that
the Tenk Clan organiced this 1.
With this crap server last sunday, it was a very GREAT JOB.

Many Thanks to u Guys!!!

i dont understand this prob above!

I think, all can win this battle....u never know....
I never won a tourney and i hope i c mag i 3rd round http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

....and we need all luck to win this....
all players i saw are good!!

Cu all on sunday, and say thx to Tenkis

My Respect

Koc

ElmarkOFear

05-19-2001, 05:06

Yup a new record . . . Hell of a way to get it though . . . Thnx Zen!! I am no longer the lonely bloke I was when I began in this forum . . LOL

Magyar Khan

05-19-2001, 06:48

sigh....

Satake

05-19-2001, 12:29

I think we should bump the last 2 messages by Magyar to the "shameless thread" in off topic http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

ElmarkOFear

05-19-2001, 16:28

I don't know . . I find Magyar's *sigh*... kinda peaceful and relaxing . . short, to the point, and given over to quiet contemplation . . http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Magyar Khan

05-19-2001, 18:26

having children will help elm, i guess

05-20-2001, 03:58

hey me thinks it was a good thing that I hadn't enough time finishing the tourney http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

well gl guys, the tenkis are honuorable fellows and well they don;t favour anyone come on. Just play and WIN THE BEST.

-Tera

------------------
Honour to Clan No Fear.

Visit my resource centre at: http://terazawa.totalwar.org

ElmarkOFear

05-20-2001, 08:46

Yes Magya, I agree, it is a parent thing! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

CaPeFeAr

05-20-2001, 15:31

I have neither been asked my opinion nor have i givin it pertaning to this matter. i agreed to allow the tenki's the final decision and i see no reason to go back on that pledge. however all of it is beside the point because i will not be particapating in the event on sunday, i will be working instead http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif ...so i wish all the contestants the best of luck and may the second round be as enjoyable as the first. thank you tenki for a wonderful tournament.

ShadeWraith

05-20-2001, 18:37

hhmmmm......., not wanting to play devils advocate elm but I have 3 kids and don't appear to draw the same solace from "sigh" as you do. Any way everyone have great fun in the tourney tonite. I may be around later just to see how everyone is going on (especially u Lord m8) , if I can keep wife and kids off my back http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

L8r, Wraith

ElmarkOFear

05-20-2001, 20:05

LOL wraith, 3 kids? wow we have two and they are such a handful that we decidd three would be too many! LOL You have my deepset respect "dad". http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

ShadeWraith

05-21-2001, 17:48

Yeah, three girls 8, 6 and 6. Yep twins. My clanmates have seen the result (via the pictures of ourselves we all posted)not many of my original dark hairs left http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

L8r, Wraith

TenkiKagutsuchi

05-21-2001, 22:20

I wonder, do i get a prize for starting the biggest topic in the Sword Dojo???

Nah, didn't think so... : (

TenkiKagutsuchi

lunchbox147

05-22-2001, 02:55

Well done tenki's for a great tourney, i lost and that sucks but i had fun and can't wait for the next.
by the way when is it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
that was my very first tourney on line ever and the presser pheww where's the toilet http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
well played yuuki and tank dogg great games.

oh i am darkcomet from the space cowboys clan if you did't know.

TenkiKagutsuchi
I think i should get a prise for my post or at least a better banner,face,symbol thingy or what ever u call em. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000905.html

[This message has been edited by lunchbox147 (edited 05-21-2001).]

Puzz3D

05-22-2001, 04:10

lunchbox147,

I fielded exactly the same army the second time out against you, and lost in exactly the same way. I've been talking to myself ever since. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Now you've got me rethinking my army. Well played.

TenkiKagutsuchi,

I like the way you organized this tourney with the round robin qualifier and double elimination with tie break. It was very ambitious, and makes the accomplishment that much greater for the winner. It sounds like everyone who played really enjoyed the tough competion while staring elimination in the face. Tournaments like this enhance the overall playing experience, and I'm sure this one will be remembered as a great tournament for a long time.

Best of luck with the final rounds,

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan takiyama ~~~