View Full Version : Will you fix the Horse Archers?
hellenes
02-05-2005, 16:41
With 1.2 making the HA useless (the dont shoot on move while on scirmish mode) are you planning to make them as they were in 1.1 and reality being able to shoot on move on full speed?
Because after 1.2 they are back like in MTW which is a HUGE step back...
Hellenes
The Wizard
02-05-2005, 18:31
They did that now? You see, I've lent out RTW to a friend and haven't had a chance to play in the new patch yet, so I wouldn't know.
But if this is so, I would expect it so that we would change it back, because it is only realistic, after all. Still, I think we (i.e. the historians dealing with the factions using horse archers) need to discuss this first...
~Wiz
It it is possible to do so, of course. However, most things that CA did were hard-coded, and we can't change them.
professorspatula
02-05-2005, 22:55
HA now require skill to use. No more people boasting 'My 3 units of Parthian HA destroyed an entire army of Egyptians!' and how the game is easy. I didn't like to use HA for the simple fact you could just stick them on the battle field and not really do much at all really and they'd slaughter the enemy.
I think I heard chariots are affected too, but this will mean the death for the Britons. Their light chariots firing on the move were one of the few ways to keep them alive early on. Are these chariots to appear in the mod by the way ?
Maybe they took the HA thing a little too far like how friendly fire calculations mean archers and velites often refuse to fire if it means there's a slight chance of hitting your own men. Sometimes I wish they'd just fire anyway!
Steppe Merc
02-05-2005, 23:33
Screw skill! It's wrong! We can't use this patch now, nope. Horse archers working is more important than that other crap. God I hate CA. Screw em all! .
:bigcry:
Crownsteler
02-06-2005, 00:00
right...
i'm with professorspatula on this one, but then, i never use horsearchers (well, i used them once, as the ptolomies, i recruited a whole bunch of them, and they did make hanniballing through europa a bit to easy... ;))
The Panda Centurion
02-06-2005, 02:31
Is this a feature of 1.2 or a bug, the no-shooting-on-the-move thing? ~:confused:
Uhh...
Actually, I've tested this one out under ideal conditions.
HA can shoot while running, just not nearly as well. Now if they are being chased by a slower enemy they will stop to shoot because they get better effectiveness. However, if the pursuer is the same speed, then the HA will shoot while moving with much dimished effectiveness.
You can test this our for yourself.
hellenes
02-06-2005, 12:52
Uhh...
Actually, I've tested this one out under ideal conditions.
HA can shoot while running, just not nearly as well. Now if they are being chased by a slower enemy they will stop to shoot because they get better effectiveness. However, if the pursuer is the same speed, then the HA will shoot while moving with much dimished effectiveness.
You can test this our for yourself.
Its not the "effectivness" its the thing that the shoot 1-2 arrows, how on earth this is an improvement? I would agree if they decreased their accuracy BUT not to eliminate their ability!!! This is VERY unrealistic and in MP the factions like Scythia Armenia (well the Armenians have some decent infantry) and Parthia will be UNPLAYABLE and be like the Mongols in VI, Parthia and Scythia rely HEAVILY on this kind of warfare and its just childish to believe that these factions with the tiny unit selection would be a choice for a player...
I believe that if we separate the horse as a separate mount (like elephant) we can make them shoot on move,...
With the current tiny SP maps (the red zone is pathetic) the HA are not so effective and as Parthia you have a VERY hard time at the begginning, and as Scythia even until middle game since you have a barbaric civilisation with no money at all...
CA decided to nerf the HA while this innovation was one of the few things that improved in RTW (HA werent shooting on move in MTW) and its very sad that they didnt direct their time to other problems...
Hellenes
The problem seems to be related to reloading. When the horse archers shift from standing still to moving, or from moving to standing still, the reload cycle starts over. So if you keep them moving without them stopping, they will fire on the move.
However, we believe we are closing in on two different ways to tackle this problem, which we'll of course share once we determine the solution.
Screw skill! It's wrong! We can't use this patch now, nope. Horse archers working is more important than that other crap. God I hate CA. Screw em all! :bigcry:
I'm with you on this Steppe Merc! But, I suppose that we have to realize that this is a glorify "Rome" game, after all is said and done. :angry: That's precisely, why I started visiting all the mod forums were the so called "Barbarians" were hopefully going to have a more realistic portrayal. Well so much for the realistic usage of horse-archer units... :disappointed:
I'm extremely mad at ActiVision/CA for doing such a shabby job, especially after people waited 5 months for this patch to come out. If they don't correct this I probably won't buy another game from them again! :furious3:
Don't worry, we are considering several fixes for this. The best seems to be changing the horse archers to "Thrown," which means they act as they did before, but there is a javelin icon when using them rather than a bow icon. It isn't elegant, but it gets around the bug.
Don't worry, we are considering several fixes for this. The best seems to be changing the horse archers to "Thrown," which means they act as they did before, but there is a javelin icon when using them rather than a bow icon. It isn't elegant, but it gets around the bug.
Hi khelvan,
Yeah, I've already heard something about this as a possible solution to the problem. But it still won't be the same (not as aesthetically pleasing to the eye) if you know what I mean? Now people like myself, who like using HA's have to live with a javelin unit, great, just great!!! :angry:
Hopefully you guys will figure out a way to keep the Horse-Archers the way they were, or we can always revert back to the previous patch and just fix all the “buggy” things ourselves! Either way I’m still really mad at ActiVision and CA for rushing out a product before it was completely and thoroughly tested! :furious3:
No, I think you have misunderstood. I believe the in-game animation will still appear to be of a bow. The model isn't changing. It is just the user interface/tooltip icon changes to a javelin when you hold it over the enemy unit, not a bow.
No, I think you have misunderstood. I believe the in-game animation will still appear to be of a bow. The model isn't changing. It is just the user interface/tooltip icon changes to a javelin when you hold it over the enemy unit, not a bow.
Hmm, I still don't know if I like this, I guess I'll have to try out your fix to determine whether I can live with the changed icon? Btw, is the fix already done for this bug?
QwertyMIDX
02-09-2005, 21:51
Yeah it's done, check out this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=690417#post690417
The icon when you go to attack is a jav not a bow but other than that nothing seems to change. Apparently the elephants are having similar, if less severe problems, I haven't done any work with them yet but hopefully someone will figure it out.
Man, you steppe lovers are a picky bunch, ain't ya? You should have read Steppe Merc's posts after the patch was implemented... :charge:
:clown:
Steppe Merc
02-10-2005, 01:24
Haha, you're just jealous that of our speed and horses! ~;)
Sadly, the thing with the javilens, while it works perfectly for the HAs, does nothing for the elephants... poor elephants.
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