Feudal: Total War

[Ignoramus]

This is a suggestion for a mod for this team to do after Citadel. I sent the idea to Uesugi Kenshin, and he thought it was a good idea too. However this thread is to see what people think.

Time Frame: 955-1205

Factions
Catholic Culture:
Saxon England
Germany
Leon
Poland
Hungary
Scots
Viking Culture:
Danes
Norse
Varangarians(East Vikings or Russians)
Papal Culture:
Papacy
Italian States
France
Normandy
Byzantine Culture:
Byzantine Empire
West Islamic Culture
Moors
Fatamid Caliphate
East Islamic Culture:
Abbisad Caliphate
Arabs
Seljuk Turks

These are some of the possible units

Scots:
Peasants
Gaelic Militia
Lowland Spearmen
Clansmen
Archers
Scottish Spearmen
Broadswordsmen
Highland Broadswordsmen
Lowland Cavalry
Scottish Nobles
Normans:
Peasants
French Militia
Men-at-Arms
Norman Men-at-Arms
Norman Foot Knights
Archers
Brenton Cavalry
Norman Knights
Leon:
Peasants
Spanish Town Militiamen
Men-at-Arms
Leon Spearmen
Spanish Heavy Swordsmen
Bidets(javilineers)
Mudejars(archers)
Aragonese Ginetes(missile cavalry)
Spanish Knights


Possible Features:
Papal Crusades
Jousting Tournements
Medieval Fairs

Will psot more later.

Post your opinion NOW!

Thanks!
Ignoramus

[Saranalos]

Good idea but we should concentrate on completing Citadel first. And if theres going to be scots I think you should include Ireland.

[Ignoramus]

Good Idea! Should we change the Norse to Ireland, and put Ireland into the Viking Culture? I mean, the Scots were in Norhtern Ireland, so we could put the Irish in Eastern Ireland.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think Ireland should definately be a faction in that mod, but we should finish CTW first. If we did this would everyone stay on the team? (this would be after CTW)

We could reuse much of the material. This thread seems to be mainly dreaming of what we could do...

[Ignoramus]

I think we could reuse most of the stuff, quite a few nuit models used for Citadel, could be used in Feudal, they would just need different names.
Here are some more suggested units:
Irish Units
Peasants
Gaelic Militia
Irish Warriors
Clansmen
Broadswordsmen
Gaelic Broadswordsmen
Galloglaichs
Javilineers
Gaelic Cavalry
Gaelic Nobles
Princilipality of Poland:
Peasants
Polish Militia
Slavic Swordsmen
Polish Infantry
Lithuanian Tribesmen
Polish Heavy Infantry
Archers
Lithuanian Cavalry
Polish Knights

More will follow.

[Saranalos]

How about giving the Irish legendary heroes like Fionn and Oisin and maybe giving them the use of Tuatha de Dannan merc units. ~:) ~:) ~:)

Or the Fianna which had a little entry examination first "No man was taken until he could defend himself from within a large hole in the ground up to his belt, with only his shield and a length of hazel rod. While nine warriors having nine spears and being a distance of ten furrows away from him let fly at him together. If he let anything past his guard and got hurt he was not accepted" ~D ~D

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I have a bunch of info from Ranika about Ireland. I would post it here but it is pretty long, when it comes time to do this I can give it to everybody, he has done a lot of research on Ireland and has a bunch of unit ideas. Just as an example of a unit he mentioned a unit that used bodyarmor that was like a bullet proof vest (not as good obviously) and used axes or something, I don't remember too well but I have his pms saved in my pm box and will keep them there.

[Ignoramus]

The reason that France, Normandy, and the Italian States, would have the Senate/faction relationship, is because these three had the biggest ties to the Pope.
See if you can get more historians and modders to come forward.

[Ignoramus]

Also, I will try to get a list of mercenaries in various areas of Europe+North Africa.

[Yggdrasill]

I think that a very similar mod is already in developement, try asking at the offical forums, modding subforum, or browse throug these boards. I know I saw somewhere screenshots of a battle of Hastings 1066, so something is definitely in the works.

[Gangstaman590]

They're barely done with C: TW why would they want to start thinking about a new one? I saw that all the efort should be put into this mod, then once it is out and done you guys can start thinking about a new one. I just really want to see alot of effort being put into the mod because I've have seen a bunch of mods just stop because they became preoccupied or lost interest. :embarassed:

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I agree we should focus on CTW, but it never hurts to have a thread where we can all spend 5 or less minutes a day dreaming. A nice change from the grim 3D art situation of CTW....

[Ignoramus]

Althougth the focus of the units should be on chain-mail.

[Ignoramus]

Italian States Units:

Serfs(I decided that we should replace the name peasants to serfs to enhance the feudalness of it)
Italian Communal Militiamen
Italian Seamen
Pavian Infantry
Venetian Swordsmen
Italian Heavy Infantry
Archers
Lombard Cavalry
Italian Knights

Don't think I am trying to take the focus of Citadel! It is just nice to plan ahead. And Uesugi, anything concerning Citadel you want me to do?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I dont know yet, I have to e-mail SR again because I do not seem to have gotten his stuff. If there are any factions that you see do not have unit lists you can work on that, I do not have much time tonight because my brother took half of it so I cannot look right now myself, if I have time I will do it tomorrow.

BTW for anyone Saranalos did not notify he is sick so he may not be on for a while.

[Ranika]

The units I PMed you with would be soldiers from the period of the Victorian conquest onward. Irish warriors in the middle ages went through a big change, since the Irish kings, moving toward unification, they went to try to imitate the iron age Irish armies, which were vastly more organized than the dark age armies (which had a big collapse in organization around 300 AD). Irish soldiers all wore shoulder cloaks, with a number of colors to designate their rank (as did Scots at the time, the kilt is a later variant of this cloak, worn around the waist), few wore pants, preferring to wear a long shirt called a leine.

Ireland was headed toward being a united power (not unlike the results of the wars in Britain for power that led to England) in the mid-to-late 900s. However, Brian Boru's death, Norman invasion, and subsequent events, prevented this, though if the initial resistance to the Normans had been more successful, things may have been different, so the Irish are a plenty viable faction in the late dark ages and during the middle ages.

The level of armor employed by the Irish is often misrepresented, especially during the time of the Norman invasion. The idea was proliferated that they fought unarmored or in old-fashion scale leather armor, and some did, but the majority of actual armies fought with leather brigadines, padded coats, and chain armor. Normans were the largest detractors of what the Irish were using, mostly to make them appear more barbaric, as to justify conquest. However, this is erroneous; Irish arms (swords, particularly, but also axes) were the favored weapon of several kingdoms, Irish chain was considered some of the finest in Europe (built off of both dark age Gaelic chain, as well as Norse chain, creating a solid amalgam), Irish religious scholars were some of the most respected in Europe, and Irish literature, songs, and poetry were valued even by the Byzantine Empire as some of the most beautiful available. However, the 'Norman' view of the Irish in this period is often what gets proliferated (largely due to the fact that most Irish accounts are untranslated, something being remedied; those that are translated are more often condensed). From Irish texts, it's plainly stated the favored weapons were the sword and spear, not the axe (as according to the Normans), Irish soldiers outfitted themselves with thick padded coats, leather caps, or iron helmets (not unarmored, or old-style scale), and the western Irish had actual professional horsemen, though the Normans were mainly fighting easterners, who had few. However, Norman invasion caught the Irish at a bad time, great amounts of war were being fought (as such, the Irish king of Leinster took this too his advantage, bringing Norman allies to try and establish himself as king of Ireland). The Irish armies were in great disarray, and were badly annihilated by the Normans in repeated engagements, until the Irish grew familiar with Norman weapons and tactics. The Irish rebuilt their army, and if the king, Ruairi, had not proposed the Treaty of Windsor, and attacked the Normans, he could've retaken all of the island; the Normans were in a bad position, Strongbow was no longer near the threat he had been (his tactics had been learned, and he had almost been captured at Waterford after a series of disasterous events). The treaty essentially ruined the king's own position, and he was the one to propose it. This is when an Irish faction becomes unusable, in the 1200s, which is long after the Irish began to adopt Norman manners in the east, which was in the 1100s, in a slow trickle. The invasion, however, actually SLOWED the proliferation of Norman-styled soldiers. Despite Norman accounts, recent digs and burial findings imply that the Normans were fighting, in many places, Irish soldiers nearly identical to their own, with similar shields, helmets, armor, and weapons. However, the Norman accounts are understandable. After their ally's death, they had to legitamize their invasion; the Irish were well-liked by much of Europe. So, the Normans passed off the invasion as an attempt to civilize a barbaric people, which was possible to frame up, because few actually went to Ireland, most of the time, it was the other way around. Irish traders and such left the country to go elsewhere, usually most of the immigrants were of a religious nature, and either spent the rest of their lives in Ireland, or, when they wrote, were writing on religious topics. However, the Irish provide elaborate full accounts of themselves, which are readable, but need translated to get them more heavily proliferated. They describe in depth their soldiers, weapons, armor, government (which is probably best known of all their accounts of themselves, their account of the government and law), etc. The Norman accounts are often the most readily accepted, without much post-cursory research. Irish soldiers rarely had many axes in this period, many Irish burials have chain armor and various styles of swords, etc. However, Irish (and Scottish, for that matter) 'medium infantry' and 'heavy infantry' SHOULD be more expensive than other factions equivalents. Their infantry was just as well, often, but it was rarer. However, the idea of abscence of armored soldiers is completely false, the Irish (and Scots) fielded armored soldiers regularly.

As for reforms of arms and armor, the Marian reforms in vanilla don't occur at the proper time, so if the military reforms of this period happen earlier/later, that shouldn't matter. It's all hypothetical history anyway.

[Ignoramus]

I haven't received a PM from you.

[Ranika]

I'm sorry, I meant Uesugi Kenshin, who said he'd recieved a PM from me. Was about later Irish soldiers, renaissance and such.

[Ignoramus]

That's ok!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Oh whoops, I forgot it was for Renaissance..... WoW that was a bit of a brain fart.....

Well I saved it anyway, didn't want to throw away so much great info....

Thanks for the additional info Ranika. It will be very helpfull.

I do not have time tonight to try and track down the unit lists but next weekend at the latest I should have lots of time to do that, as in 10 pm to 2 pm and even later if I need to.

[Ignoramus]

I tried to revive the Feudal thread on RTWHeavengames, but no success as yet............

[Ranika]

Oh, and the Scots were not in the east of Ireland, the Scots weren't anywhere. Scotland didn't exist in 955, the Gaels in modern Scotland consolidated as the kingdom of Alba when Dal Riata took control of southern and northern Pict kingdoms; the kingdom of the Hebrides would be formed though, controlling the Hebrides, Ynys Manaw, and the Orkneys and parts of northern and western modern Scotland; Scotland as a faction wouldn't look quite the same in 955 as one might think it would look. Additionally, the eastern kings in Ulaid, Midhe, and Laigin, none of them were beholden to foreign lords in 955; only Midhe had any foreigners in it, in Dublin (which occassionally conquered Midhe and parts of Ulaid, and puppeted Laigin for a while), which was eventually subverted to the control of Irish rule anyway. If Ireland were a faction, Ireland should have 4-5 provinces, and start with control of Muma (Munster) and Connaght, which were under control or otherwise protection of the Dal Cais of Muma (which eventually spawned the 'Imperator Scrotorum' Brian; that is, he called himself 'Emperor of the Irish', due to his position as ruler of most of Ireland, though Dublin was claimed by his successor, since he died at Clontarf in 1014). The eastern half would be rebels, though if you do five provinces, could MAYBE give Dublin/Meath/Midhe to a Norse faction of some manner, but it was actually pretty indepedent.

Having 4-5 provinces in Ireland may make you worry it'd be too powerful, but one must recall, historically, Ireland was never united completely, though it was nearly. A fully united Ireland is a pretty big kingdom at the time (would be similar in scale to British kingdoms like England), and Ireland is fertile. It should just be a severe pain to unite it, with strong rebels in the rebel provinces, forcing the Irish into a long war to gain control of the island. A united Ireland would have good ports, so good trade to be had, good farming, precious metals, marble quarries in Connaght, semi-precious stones, alcohol trade, etc. A united Ireland would not be hurting for money, but Ireland should have a number of disadvantages. The west was undeveloped in comparison to the east, having been decimated repeatedly by war, and would have little money, as well as starting soldiers would be relatively weak soldiers, so it'd be a hard uphill fight to get going.

[Ignoramus]

Alright, thanks for that! So I take it that it would be best if the Irish faction was in the western poorer part of the Island, with strong Serfs(Rebels) in the more populated, richer east? Why don't you post a list of the Irish and Scottish units on the thread, as you seem to know quite a lot about their armies in this time period.

[Ranika]

The eastern half of Ireland would have armies in it; each province had indepedent kings, with their own armies, not just peasants. And serfs don't exist in Gaelic society (to note, lowland Scotland is NOT Gaelic society after Norman invasions, it's a Norman imitation society, so the presence of lords and nobles like in England is NOT what Gaelic society is like; though I'm not abject to Serfs in place of Rebels because it fits for most of Europe). In Gaelic society, a tuath (clan) is pledged to a chief, several chiefs pledge to a chieftan, several chieftans pledge to a ruire, and in a united Ireland, the ruire all pledge to the ardruire or Scotum Imperator. In Alba, the ruler is the Righ, but it otherwise works the same way. Chiefs are elected, as are judges, Brehons. Arras (nobles, like the ruire) have little legal power, they simply control the military and administrate tuath. They do not own land, a tuath actually owns the land, and any decision to do anything to it goes to a vote.

'Marian Reforms' could be the proliferation of Norman arms and armor (or simply general military reforms, this would heavily affect the Irish and Scots), or the general modernization of weapons and armor.

Essentially, it works like this: Fianns (Freemen) are beholden to the Arras (Nobles) who are beholden to Brehons (Judges) who are beholden to the Fianns. In lowland Scotland though, the Norman model was imitated, as was Norman military organization. To really show a historical model of these kingdoms (and most others, for that matter) you'd have to confine most types of soldiers to specific regions. Basic shared stuff (Marked with a * is a professional soldier, and wears a padded coat or boiled leather brigadine, unless noted otherwise; Scots preferred leather, but both used leather or padding alternatively; confine these to Ireland and highland Scotland):

Kernbannal (lochaber ax or spearmen; light infantry, cheap, low quality, much of Gaelic militaries feel into this, should probably use the spearmen, they also carried darts/javelins)

Kernsotabannal (bowmen; poor bowmen, just levied archers, cheap though)

*Cleighnaght (swordsmen; as described, medium infantry)

*Lewnaght/Ridire (two-handed swords; as described, heavy infantry, chain armor; Ridire would be heavier armored, Ridire were noblemen)

**Tannaighnaght (axemen; these could vary widely, light-to-medium infantry, potentially professionals; Iobnaght were levy axemen)

*Batanaght (macemen; good quality macemen, medium infantry with AP trait; causes armor piercing attacks)

*Ordamhnaght (hammermen; just as easily represented with Batanaght, and Batanaght model could be used for other soldiers anyway, maces were popular)

*Gaenaght/Bonnaght (spearmen; use a single throwing spear, with another for melee; medium-to-heavy infantry, wearing an iron helmet)

*Sleanaght (pikemen; use two-handed pikes, potentially use phalanx formation?)

Muirchadan (horsemen; basic Gaelic cavalrymen, mounted Kern; light cavalry), also called Marcachan (modern Marcach)

Irish specific; confined to Ireland:

Tuathanaght; Irish peasants, essentially, outfitted with spears (Irish law, all members of a Tuath had to make spears and be ready to fight)

*Dalcassian Knights; Two-handed swordsmen with chain shirts, elite heavy infantry, possibly be the Irish general unit (Brian Boru was a Dal Cais, and fought like one despite being king), could even use the same model as the Lewnaght to save space; if trainable, only trainable in Munster

*Dublann Cleighnaght; Cleighnaght with chain armor...excitement, heavy infantry

Could be a lot more regional stuff, and others, but this is a slight start, and maybe enough. Don't know how much you'd want.

Scot/Alba specific; confined to Scotland; not using Scottish spellings because in 955, they still spoke what was essentially Ulaidi-Goedelic (old Ulster-Irish):

*Bognaght; professional archers, less horrible in melee than Kernsotabannal, and better range (Kernsotabannal should be flat-out terrible)

Gaiomnaght; highland clansmen, use a huge variety of weapons, really just levy peasants from the north, usually used clubs though since they're cheap and available

*Moarmor; 'swordsbearers', chain armored, iron helmet swordsmen with large shields, possibly Scottish general unit, personal guard of the kings and chiefs

*Aramoarhadan; mounted nobles, could also be a general unit, heavily armored spearmen on horseback, use swords in melee, large round shields

Sighandahnaght; don't know if these could actually be implemented, these men fought with a three-section staff akin to those in eastern martial arts (the sighandah is a Scottish weapon, possibly of Pictish origin). It was essentially a wooden flail.


Later soldiers, 'Marian reform' stuff for Gaels, confined to heavily 'Norman influenced' areas, that is, eastern Ireland and Scottish lowlands. As I recall, the 'Marian reform' trigger can be applied to any faction's units, all factions should then have some 'post-Marian stuff', as such, here's some for the Irish/Scots (Norman stuff would be a bit lower defense, but better armor, maybe slower), until these reforms, lowland Scotland should only produce the basic Gaelic shared units, not the Scot-specific units, except Bognaght;

Normano-Gaelic Militia; spear armed light infantry with no armor, small shields

*Normano-Gaelic Spearmen-at-Arms; spearmen with targe-style shields, iron helmets, leather or padded coats, medium infantry

*Normano-Gaelic Line Spearmen; spearmen with Bayeux-style shields, iron helmets, chain armor, heavy infantry

*Normano-Gaelic Macemen-at-Arms; macemen with targe-style shields, iron helmets, leather or padded coats, medium infantry, AP trait

*Normano-Gaelic Batariadh; flail or macemen with Bayeux-style shields, iron helmets, chain armor, heavy infantry, AP trait

*Normano-Gaelic Swordsmen-at-Arms; swordsmen with targe-style shields, iron helmets, leather or padded coats, medium infantry

*Normano-Gaelic Cleighriadh; swordsmen with Bayeux-style shields, iron helmets, chain armor, heavy infantry

*Normano-Gaelic Archers; more generic regular archers, Norman influence caused the adoption of regular archers into Gaelic armies, shortswords in melee

*Normano-Gaelic Horsemen; mounted spear, mace, or swordsmen (whichever, they were all used)

*Normano-Gaelic Knights; mounted spearmen, armored in light plate armor, with lances, and swords in melee

*Daoibricleighnaght; two-handed lowland swordsmen, heavy infantry, wear chain armor, iron helmets, Scottish only

*Righanaght; Gaelic footknights, using a mace or longsword, a throwing spear, and a large round shield, wearing good quality chain armor, iron helmets, not confined to Norman influenced regions (these were adopted into the general armies, and had little actual Norman influence, they were an outgrowth of Gaelic warrior society, a product of extra wealth among the nobles, a latter Gaelic innovation more than product of outside influences)

*Hobilar; Mounted lesser Arras(nobles), with strong spears, javelins, swords, and hand axes. Possibly just mount the Gaenaght and skin it proper, medium-to-heavy cavalry, Irish only

*Bogmarcach; Mounted Normano-Gaelic archers, fairly rare, though Irish chroniclers do state their use, but can be overlooked. Sub-par horse archers (but horse archers all the same), Irish only


I know that may look like a lot of units, but the unit limit is now 500, and the real limiting aspect is models, and they could share a number (batanaght for example would work as numerous 'mace' units). Creative skinning could pull this all off I believe.

[Ignoramus]

Excellent! That's great. I think the system of implicating Norman armour is an excellent idea, however, I am not yet sure if it is possible. But yes, any historical info and/or unit names plus desrcitions would be very much appreciated.

[Ranika]

To my understanding, when select factions (IE: Romans in vanilla) reach a certain city size, the 'Marian reforms' occur. I believe one can simply change it so once ANY faction reaches that size, the 'reforms' event occurs. You can set units in the building file to require it to be turned on/off. The Gaelic units would never be turned off, but after this point they'd gain access to the Norman-influenced units in appropriate regions. Other factions would also have their military reforms at the same time (since it's only one event), so all armies would be 'modernized', with new units, some may no longer use 'pre-reform' units (though the Gaelic factions would use all the same units, in the appropriate areas, in western Ireland and northern Scotland, and then in eastern Ireland and southern Scotland, get Normano-Gaelic units in addition to the old units). Norman things for Gaels should probably be a bit more costly than their old units, but the benefit of high quality Norman armor would be necessary for any invasion outside of their own territories.

Updated my original post, removed precursory units (since added new list post), and added more history; that is, Irish and Norman relations, since it's often confused what exactly was going on with the Irish before the Norman invasion, because of the Norman account, which is horribly skewed to make the Irish look more barbaric, to justify the invasion after their Irish ally (Diarmuid Mac Murchada) died. He had brought them originally as his support, but they came for land after he died, and their account of the Irish is less than complimentary, saying Ireland was irreligious, even pagan sometimes, that they fielded armies of rabble, etc.; little of which was actually true, as explained above. One of the big Norman and Irish debacles was southern and eastern chiefs and princes giving gifts to Henry II. The Normans, feudallists, saw this as tribute, and thus subjugation. The Irish viewed it as a gift to a powerful king, but implied nothing about submission to him; that's common of Irish Arras in the feudal period, giving gifts to powerful enemies, to show a respect for them. This kind of misconception eventually led to pretty much anarchy in the Norman controlled regions of Ireland.

Some other notes; Irish names, no Fitzanything. Fitz is a post-Norman prefix, Gaelicized Normans, and would appear only toward the end of the period you've selected. Gaelic names are like Ui Neill or Satchenan, and similar. Irish flag is not a green field with a gold harp (nor had it ever been, that's the flag of Leinster); it varies, but in this period, the blug flag with a gold harp was used a lot. Also, the western half of Ireland was not poorer, as in, the territory was not poorer. Connaght produces green marble (connemara), a very lucrative trade substance in the period, and both Connaght and Muma produced high quality alcohol, as well as arms and armor, that were exported for a fair amount of money. However, due to wars with eastern kingdoms and against the 'Danes' (vikings of numerous stripes), they were in a bad position at the time, with funds bled dry trying to maintain an already decimated, and thereby subpar, army, amid trying to rebuild badly damaged infrastructure. The Irish faction's first concern would be rebuilding their lands, so as to benefit from what SHOULD be good trading products, and to rebuild the army, then to invade and conquer the rest of Ireland. The Irish faction should be an extremely slow moving faction to use; capable of expansion but requiring a lot of work to get themselves in order for invading exterior territories off the island. Their medium and heavy infantry should be of fair-to-good quality, but a bit more expensive than equivalents in other factions to make them rarer (the same goes for the Scots). Means that, to have an actual formidable force, they'd need to exploit all they can from the land they control, and try to eliminate extraneous expenses. At first, both Irish and Scots should have little ease or luxury. Building up their cities and armies should be a slow, lengthy process, ultimately rewarding though; later units should be good quality, particulary anything in chain, or Normano-Gaelic anything. Irish/Scottish units should have good morale, relatively compared to most (not all) other factions. Not fantastic, but generally better (dark age Irish were particularly well motivated, but you're trying to cover the medieval, and they were fairly well motivated, but not as much as they had been).

Oh, and of the Fianna; disbanded looong before the 900s. The Fianna were a pagan religious order, and disbanded after Ireland was Christianized. However, similar warrior bands existed, but were generally indepedent (as were the Fianna), and not really viable as a trainable unit. They fought to defend Ireland from outsiders, and weren't beholden to any of the kings or tuath. However, certain berserker-type bands, Catholic Irish fanatics really, who were versed in extensive warrior philosophies and traditional martial arts, were used, but VERY rare, and if those were desired as a unit, they should reasonably be no larger, as a unit, than 10 or so men, very expensive, and very rare. The only exceptional is the Gael-Gaedhil, but they weren't religious fanatics, nor really considered Irish by the Irish; they were criminals, and sometimes employed by Irish armies to raid the British coast. Not to actually gain anything, but to get the Gael-Gaedhil killed, because they were so hated.

[Urnamma]

Count on the help of the resident Byzantine Scholar (myself) for info on the Byzantines! (Ranika pointed me this way). If this starts in 955, I'm extremely interested.

[Ignoramus]

Count on the help of the resident Byzantine Scholar (myself) for info on the Byzantines! (Ranika pointed me this way). If this starts in 955, I'm extremely interested.

Thanks! We really need help for this mod after Citadel is finished. You can be our Byzantine Historian. Finding all relevent general names relevent units plus descriptions, and territory allocations.

Yes, it wil start in 955 for a few reasons: 1. The Battle of Leichfield(sp?) was fought between the HRE and Magyars(Hungarians) which cruched the Magyar power.
2. It is the emergence of important factions such as Normandy.

I haven't worked out an end date, but around 1220 or 1230 is probably looking good.

[Wah_fish]

Ignoramus directed me here. I can do research on anything anybody needs and I love all history time periods, so I have a wide range of information that I already know.
Any questions, just ask away.

Forwand and into battle... CHARGE :charge:

[Ignoramus]

Eurpoean Units excluding Scotland and Ireland. Plus generals at the moment.

[Wah_fish]

First bit of info about units:

Housecarls

Were well-trained, full-time Anglo-Saxon soldiers who were paid for their services. They wore a short mail-coat called a byrnie. The sleeves were left short to enable freedom of movement in battle. They wore a pointed helmet to help deflect blows from sword attacks. Their main weapon was the battle-axe. The heavy curved blade and long handle meant that the weapon had to be held with both hands. Housecarls also used a long double-edged sword with a shallow grove running along the blade on both sides to make it lighter.

Famous usage in the Battle of Hastings.

Second bit of info Relms/Regions:

Gwynedd (North Wales)
Dumnonia (South West England)
Wessex (South coast including isle of white)
Mercia (Central England)
Rheged (North west England)
Dalriada (West Scotland + Islands)
Northumbria (East England)

[Wah_fish]

I have loads of infomation of Cities if it is required? But I will look into the units and generals for you.

Actualy on second thoughts here is a link with the citty stuff on it:

http://historymedren.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=historymedren&zu=http://www.britannia.com/history/ebk/articles/nenniuscities.html

[Wah_fish]

This is a list of most of the Kings and Roilty as such I could find.

Founders
Emperor Magnus Maximus
King Vortigern Vorteneu
King Eudaf Hen
King Coel Hen
King Aed Brosc
King Lot Luwddoc
King Cunedda Wledig
King Ceretic Guletic

Brittany
King Conan Meriadoc
King Gradlon Mawr
Prince Branwaladr
King Aldrien
Prince Bican Farchog
Prince Illtud Farchog
Prince Sadwrn Farchog
Lord Crallo
Prince Constantine Waredwr
Prince Ambrosius Aurelianus
King Budic I
King Maeliaw
King Rivod
Prince Amon Ddu
Prince Samson Sant
Prince Umbraphel
King Erich
King Budic II
King Hoel I Mawr
Princess Gwen Teirbron
Lord Cadfan
Princess Canna
Prince Rumon
King Tewdwr Mawr
Prince Trillo Sant
Prince Tugdual Sant
Prince Armel Sant
Prince Derfel Gardarn

Brycheiniog
King Brychan Brycheiniog
King Rhein Dremrydd
Princess Gwladys
Princess Keyne Wyry
Princess Eiliwedd
Prince Nectan
Princess Marwenna
Princess Menfre
Princess Morwenna
King Rhigeneu
King Idwallon
Princess Ceindrych
King Cloten
King Rhein
King Tewdr
King Elisedd
King Tewdr Brycheiniog
King Gryffydd

Bryneich
King Garbonian
King Dumnagual Moilmut
King Bran Hen
King Cuncar
King Morcant Bulc
King Coledauc
King Morcant

Buellt
King Pasgen

Caer Goch
Lord Cynyr Ceinfarfog
Lord Cai Hir
Lady Danhadlwen
Lady Wenna Sant
Lady Non Sant
Lord Ewryd Sant
Lady Mugain

Caer Wenddoleu
King Gwenddoleu

Calchfynedd
King Cynwyd Cynwydion
King Cadrod Calchfynedd
King Yspwys Mwyntyrch

Ceredigion
King Ceredig Ceredigion
Prince Sandde
Prince Dewi
Prince Cungar
King Seisyll
King Gwrgan
King Cadell

Cerniw
King Merion
King Mark
King Salom Sant
King Fracan Sant
Prince Cybi Felyn

Cornouaille
King Conan Meriadoc
King Gradlon Mawr
Prince Branwaladr
King Aldrien
Prince Bican Farchog
Prince Illtud Farchog
Prince Sadwrn Farchog
Lord Crallo
Prince Constantine Waredwr
Prince Ambrosius Aurelianus
King Budic I
King Maeliaw
King Rivod
Prince Amon Ddu
Prince Samson Sant
Prince Umbraphel
King Erich
King Budic II
King Hoel I Mawr
Princess Gwen Teirbron
Lord Cadfan
Princess Canna
Prince Rumon
King Tewdwr Mawr
Prince Trillo Sant
Prince Tugdual Sant
Prince Armel Sant
Prince Derfel Gardarn

Cynwydion
King Cynwyd Cynwydion

Din Eitin
King Clydno Eitin
King Mynyddog Mwynfawr

Dogfeiling
King Dogfael
Domnonée
King Guitol
King Riothamus
King Deroch II
King Riwal Mawr Marchou
King Jonas
King Judwal
King Haeloc
King Judicael
King Judoc
Prince Winnoc Sant
Dumnonia
King Caradoc
Prince Mauric
King Donaut
Princess Ursula Sant
King Conan Meriadoc
King Gadeon
King Guoremor
Prince Cadfrod
Prince Cadgyfarch
Prine Gwrfael
King Tutwal
King Conomor
King Constantine Corneu
King Erbin
Prince Dywel
Prince Piran Sant
King Gerren Llyngesoc
King Cado
Prince Justin Sant
Prince Selevan Sant
Princess Breaca Sant
Prince Cyngar
King Constantine Sant
King Gerren Sant
King Bledric
King Clemen
King Petroc Baladrddellt
King Culmin
King Dungarth
King Gerren
King Dungarth

Dyfed
King Anwn
King Ednyfed
King Clotri
King Triffyn Farfog
King Aircol Lawhir
King Gwrthefyr
King Arthwyr
King Cloten
King Rhein
King Tewdos
King Owain
King Hyfaidd
King Rhodri

Ebrauc
King Coel Hen
King Ceneu
King Mor
King Arthuis
King Eliffer Gosgorddfawr
King Peredur Arueu Dur

Edeligion
King Edelig Edeligion

Elmet
King Mascuid Gloff
King Llaenawc
Prince Arthuis
King Gwallawc Marchawc Trin
King Ceretic

Ergyng
King Peibio Clafrog
Princess Efrddyl
Prince Dyfrig
King Cynfyn
King Gwrfoddw Hen
King Gwrgan Fawr
King Athrwys

Fferreg
King Cawrdaf

Galloway
King Tutgual
King Senyllt

Glywysing
King Owain Finddu
King Mor
King Solor
King Glywys Cernyw
King Gwynllyw Farfog
King Cadog Ddoeth
Princess Maches Sant
Prince Pedrog Sant
Prince Bedwyr Bedrydant
King Meurig
King Erb
King Tewdrig Sant
King Meurig
Prince Athrwys

Gododdin
King Lot Luwddoc
Princess Thaney Sant
Prince Gwalchafed
King Gawain Gwalltafwyn
Prince Medraut

Gorfynedd
King Merchwyn Wylt

Gwent
King Gwerthefyr Fendigaid
Princess Madrun Sant
Princess Anna Sant
Princess Afrella Sant
King Ynyr Gwent
King Iddon
King Caradog Freichfras
Prince Ceidio
King Meurig
King Erb
King Tewdrig Sant
King Meurig
Prince Arthwys

Gwerthefyriwg
King Gwerthefyr Fendigaid
Princess Madrun Sant
Princess Anna Sant
Princess Afrella Sant
Gwerthrynion
King Pasgen
Gwynllwg
King Gwynllyw Farfog
King Cadog Ddoeth
Gwynedd
King Constantine
King Cunedda Wledig
King Einion Yrth
King Cadwallon Lawhir
King Maelgwn Hir
King Rhun Hir
King Iago
King Cadfan
King Cadwallon
King Cadfael Cadomedd
King Cadwaladr Fendigaid
King Idwal Iwrch
King Rhodri Molwynog
King Caradog
King Cynan Dindaethwy
King Hywel Farf-Fehinog
King Merfyn Frych
King Gruffudd ap Cynan
King Owain Gwynedd

Llyn
King Einion

Lyonesse
King Meliodas
King Tristan
King Tristan the Younger

Maelienydd
King Brydw
King Mael Melienydd

Meilirion
King Meilir Meilirion

Meirionydd
King Meirchion Meirionydd
King Cadwaladr
King Gwrin Farfdrwch
King Gwyddno Garanhir
King Idris Gawr

Pennines
King Pabo Post Prydein
Southern Pennines
King Sawyl Penuchel
Prince Madoc Ailither
Prince Asaph Sant
Northern Pennines
King Dunaut Bwr
Prince Deiniol Gwyn
Prince Aneirin Gwodryd
Prince Cynwyl Sant
Prince Deiniolen Fab

Penwith
King Teudar Mawr

Penychen
King Pawl Penychen
King Cadog Ddoeth

Poher
King Conomor

Powys
King Cadeyrn
King Cadell Ddernllwg
Prince Gwynllyw
Lord Beuno
Lady Gwenfrewy
King Cyngen Glodrydd
King Brochfael Ysgythrog
Prince Tysilio Sant
King Cynan Garwyn
King Selyf Sarffgadau
King Manwgan
King Elisedd
King Cyngen Powys

Rheged
King Gwrast Lledlwm
King Meirchion Gul
South Rheged
King Elidyr Llydanwyn
King Llywarch Hen
Prince Sandde
Prince Guriat
Prince Merfyn Frych
North Rheged
King Cynfarch Oer
King Urien Rheged
King Owein
Prince Kentigern Garthwys
Prince Rhun
Princess Riemmelth

Rhos
King Owain Danwyn
King Cynlas Goch
Prince Einion
Prince Seiriol Gwyn
Prince Merryn
Prince Caradog

Rhufoniog
King Rhufon

Selcovia
King Senyllt
King Nudd Hael
King Dingat
Prince Eleri Sant

Strathclyde
King Ceretic Guletic
King Cinuit
King Dumnagual Hen
King Cedic
King Tutgual Tutclyd
King Riderch Hael
King Constantine Sant
King Neithon
Prince Elidyr Mwynfawr

Vannetais
King Caradog Freichfras

Ynys Manaw
King Tutgual
King Senyllt
King Neithon
King Anllech
King Mermin Mawr
King Anaraud Gwalchcrwn
King Iudgual
King Sandde
King Guriat
King Merfyn Frych

Ysfeilion
King Ysfael Gwron
King Meilir Meilirion

This link has indeapth information on MAPS and RELMS

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/index.html

Anything else needed?

[Ignoramus]

Good, do you know of any French units/generals?

[Saranalos]

Hmm. Theres already one or two mods out there like this, I would rather create something entirely new like Aztec:Total War which I think no-one has created yet ~D .

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I don't think we would have enough info about the Aztecs for a mod on them.

Anyway lets try to keep focused on CTW for now. If people want to find general names we could use them for CTW as well...

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I don't think we would have enough info about the Aztecs for a mod on them.

Anyway lets try to keep focused on CTW for now. If you want to find general names we could use them for CTW as well...



Edit: Whoops, oh well..... Guess 2what this is my first double post that IO know about! Pretty good 750+ posts and only one double....

[buujin]

If u guys are looking for something feudal, why dont u check out

www.stratcommandcenter.com/chivalry

the medieval mod.

Chivalry mod will start in 1071 and goes on right up to the end of the era (1600).

Silver Rusher had his heart set on the renaisence period when he started this mod and considering the pace at which its now progressing i would say starting a new project now would not be very constructive...

If 1071 sounds a little too late for you early era fans why not check out the viking era mod for rome, that one looks good too.

Im not sure if u guys were already aware of chivalry total war, but a public beta should be available within the next week or two, and im pretty damn sure u wont be dissapointed.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yeah, thats what I have been saying, we need to finish this one first. It doesn't hurt to put in a few ideas every now and then, but we do not need unit lists or other research for this. We need those for CTW.

[Urnamma]

As long as we don't start debating about including fantasy units from MTW, we're ok. ~:cheers:

Models (different skins for different units of course):

S1 - Archer (Bow/Sword)
S2 - Heavy Cavalryman (lance/mace)
S3 - Heavy Cavalryman (bow/mace)
S4 - Light Cavalryman (spear/sword)
S5 - Heavy Infantry (axe/hurlbats)
S6 - Light Infantryman (spear)
S7 - Heavy Infantryman (sword/javelins)
S8 - Skirmisher (spear/javelins)
S9 - Slinger
S10 - Pikeman

(probably 2 more, depending on how late this mod ends. If it ends in the 13th century there are some gun troops that could be added)

A lot of these could be shared with other factions, insofar as models go!

Byzantine Unit List:

Scholae Tagmata - Elite Medium Cavalry: S2
Athanatai Tagmata - Elite Heavy Cavalry: S2
Excubitors Tagmata - Elite Heavy Infantry: S7
Klibanophoroi - Elite Heavy Cavalry: S3
Kataphraktoi - Elite Heavy Cavalry: S2
Hippotoxotai - Horse Archers: S1
Varangian Guard - You know what these guys are: S5
Trabzonoi (not sure of the name yet) Toxotai - (the only MTW unit that was accurate): S1
Themata Stratiotai - Theme Infantry
Themata Hippeis - Theme (Regular) Cavalry
Peltastai - Skirmishers
Trapeziatoi - Elite Light Cavalry
Hippeis - Light Cavalry (often Armenian)

Gotta run to class, will finish later.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

If you want to help with CTW for now that would be great but we will not be doing any real serious planning for Fuedal or any models until we finish CTW.