View Full Version : Campaign map development
Myrddraal
03-05-2005, 14:46
Here I will post some images of the map and also some previews of the region layout etc.
Work in progress:
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/6835/map3af.jpg
Myrddraal
03-06-2005, 20:53
bump
Nice. Map isn't too empty either. For roads what level are you going to let each faction get?
Myrddraal
03-08-2005, 09:34
I think all levels of road will be availiable to all, but I suggest we don't allow roads to be built in places like Caralain grass. These provinces are in contact with so many other provinces that it simply looks stupid.
looks good. aiel factions and trollocs too should not have the top road building techs.
We should let most regions have at least basic road level in start, I think. The wot world is more developed then the roman.
Myrddraal
03-09-2005, 11:43
Not the caralain grass, seriously, it makes this tiny village look like the center of the world...
Yes, but I wrote most ~;) And what I meant was that they should have roads when we started the game.
al'Callaendor
10-10-2005, 13:56
it's a good beginning.~:)
well you could always have just one road or two running through it
just do what they did with Rhegium in Italy with the road, it borders three different provinces but the road only goes to one.
al'Callaendor
10-10-2005, 17:54
soibean, just once is sufficient...
heh - well yeah, places like the Caralain Grass are basically wasteland - I agree... no need for roads there.
Maybe a few slight restrictions? Like Murandy and Altara not getting top level roads?
Also a thing to consider is, changing the balance of the roads a bit. Make paths easily buildable, because almost all the civilized parts have them. But actual paved roads are much rarer, so maybe make them more expensive and time-consuming, but a big trade impact...
sorry about that, for whatever reason the site was being very slow and I got frustrated and clicked the button repeatedly for some effect.
SMZ has a good idea
Does anyone know off hand the bonuses that a road/paved road/high way gives to movement? Something like extra 1/4 move or some such if you're following me? If thats the case you can give a path some tiny bonus and a much larger bonus for paved road.
cdaulepp
12-09-2005, 18:55
Hey Myrdraal,
I really like the campaign map shot. Can you take some more shots like the one in this thread and post them for us?
I noticed in the screenshot you posted that you misplaced "So Tehar". You have So Tehar way far north east of Ebou Dar, but it is just north of the city.
You may wish to download this map I've found. The Author researched all of the cities and placed them on the map. (s)he also placed other things like stedding, waygates, and all the armies present locations at the end of Knife of Dreams.
http://webpages.charter.net/newname/WoT%20Map%20with%20Armies%20by%20New%20Name.jpg
You'll need to open the picture in a picture editor like Paint or something to see the fine detail, but it is quite a nice piece of work.
If you haven't read Knife of Dreams then I suggest not downloading the map because the army placements have some spoilers in them.
Anyway, I thought this would help. Please take some screenshots like you did earlier and post them.
cdaulepp
know you said it a long time ago - but good idea soibean - I was wondering the other day if it was possible to have two types of roads in one province... ie: one main road - and other lesser paths...
and nice job on the link cdaulepp - some have seen it, some haven't - but you're right - it's a very nice tool - props to its maker
Hello...
Right now I am the person working with the camp. map, to convert it for BI. I have some problems, but I think I solved most of them yesterday. If I get it working, I might be able to give you some nice screens.
And I beat you about the map, posted it in dev area almost two weeks ago;) (And it is a he). It is nice, but it has some flaws.
Edit: And I was right, the map now works for BI. Screens will come.
cdaulepp
12-10-2005, 16:29
"New_Name" over at wotmania.com claimed the original map had a couple of errors which he? fixed recently. The link I gave is to the newest version. If you downloaded his version from 2 weeks ago I think that might have been an older version of the map.
Might be worth checking. The newest version of the map has Salidar right on the river Elbar and has So Habor correctly placed to the south of Abila.
I can't wait for the screenshots. Those will be awesome!!
cdaulepp
I have the latest version:P
And IIRC, it is a he:P Anyway, there are amtters with the army numbers and stuff like that, but those are more a matter of the wotmania faq, since that where the numbers are from.
cdaulepp
12-11-2005, 05:06
which army numbers on New_Name's map do you disagree with?
Post screens now11111111111111111111111111111111!.
Ok, if you want that....
Screen one: The black hills and a part of the Border.
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload4/camp._prev1.gif
Screen two: Struggle for the almoth plain (please provide with settlement names if you can):
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload4/camp_prev3.gif
More screens will come, I guess. Maybe a screen with one of the brilliant diplomacy responses SMZ has written:)
An interesting note about the map: One I simulated a couple of rounds on the map, it was like seeing how the feelings the different natiosn has towards each other evolved. Tarabon and Arad Doman was involved in a war pretty soon, over the almoth plain. Tear fought Illian at the plains of maradeo and andor at far madding, Andor expanded quickly for all sides. Pretty fun to watch:san_cheesy:
cdaulepp: Well, for one as was said by someone in the dev area, seanchan could not field a million men at this side of the ocean, and have troops left at home. Also, the logisitics for that many troops and settelers would have been impossible to manage, and there for that must be both settlers and soldiers. Also, I disagree with the postiton of the saldean lances at caemlyn. I think they have been moved by now, probably to illian or arad doman.
this is so dope I'm giddy... lol
ten woots for Myrddraal and Andreas
wordums... *has other 3 or 4 diplomacy's done in record time*
Antagonist
12-11-2005, 16:44
The campmap is looking really good, nice work Andreas and Myrrdraal!
About the names for settlements on Almoth Plain, the only suggestion I can think of is maybe naming Almoth Upper after the Paerish Swar (Darkwood) which is apparently the name of the forest which covers that area, though of course it's not really a settlement. I get the impression that Almoth plain is all but deserted by then, with nothing larger than tiny nameless villages... Anyone else have suggestions?
Good job again,
Antagonist
Myrddraal
12-11-2005, 16:49
May I emphasise that this map is quite an early version and has been kicking around for a while. The final map will be more 'zoomed in' which is to say the scale will be larger. More map squares per mile if you like. If you want more info on why, read the Demo Info thread
Edit: Town names is one of the reasons I've put very large provinces for the unpopulated areas. Another reason is that we don't want them to have as much potential for growth.
There is always the option of having unconquerable regions with no town (yes this is possible), but would that actually be good?
Werthead
12-11-2005, 16:58
Hi guys. First post here. Been lurking for a while and am really impressed with the progress you guys are making. I'm actually looking forward to playing this more than reading A Memory of Light (yeah, kind of burned on the series, but love the worldbuilding and I love Rome, so here I am).
One question for the mapmakers: do you have access to The Prophecies of the Dragon, the RPG expansion? It has a series of adventures set on Almoth Plain and Toman Head complete with town names approved by Robert Jordan.
Ostin Falls is a town on Almoth Plain just east of Toman Head. It seems to be a crossroads between Tarabon and Arad Doman north-south and Katar-Falme east-west. Aturo's Orchard is a town further south but still near Toman Head (perhaps near the bay at the southern end of the head?). I'd suggest moving Almoth Upper further north-west and renaming it Ostin Falls, whilst Almoth Lower could be moved slightly further west and renamed Aturo's Orchard. Aturo's Orchard is located near a forest called the Bramblewood and there is a small highland region nearby called the Old Hills.
Also, if you wanted to subdivide Toman Head, there's another village called Tobin's Hollow which is on the headland itself, west of Aturo's Orchard.
Hope that helps. PS I though Lake Somal was the big lake between the mountains and the Darkwood? Ituralde seem to imply it was near Katar in Crossroads of Twilight.
Antagonist
12-11-2005, 16:59
May I emphasise that this map is quite an early version and has been kicking around for a while. The final map will be more 'zoomed in' which is to say the scale will be larger. More map squares per mile if you like. If you want more info on why, read the Demo Info thread
I was just wondering about that. Nice to hear that it's still on, it's an excellent idea that should give the mod a more unique tactical feel, and make it more evocative of the kind of tactical planning prevalent in the books. ~:cool:
Antagonist
Even in the winter this is looking so hot!!
but any news about the demo and when it's coming out.. ( no delays?)
May I emphasise that this map is quite an early version and has been kicking around for a while. The final map will be more 'zoomed in' which is to say the scale will be larger. More map squares per mile if you like. If you want more info on why, read the Demo Info thread
Edit: Town names is one of the reasons I've put very large provinces for the unpopulated areas. Another reason is that we don't want them to have as much potential for growth.
There is always the option of having unconquerable regions with no town (yes this is possible), but would that actually be good?
I didn't know you could have regions with no towns - I really like that idea. Things like the Caralain Grass and Haddon Mirk - should just be hindrances to deal with... make you consider which directions to attack more if you knew going across the Grass was just going to be months of travel with no reward - which fits the books better... I really like that concept
One question for the mapmakers: do you have access to The Prophecies of the Dragon, the RPG expansion? It has a series of adventures set on Almoth Plain and Toman Head complete with town names approved by Robert Jordan.
Ostin Falls is a town on Almoth Plain just east of Toman Head. It seems to be a crossroads between Tarabon and Arad Doman north-south and Katar-Falme east-west. Aturo's Orchard is a town further south but still near Toman Head (perhaps near the bay at the southern end of the head?). I'd suggest moving Almoth Upper further north-west and renaming it Ostin Falls, whilst Almoth Lower could be moved slightly further west and renamed Aturo's Orchard. Aturo's Orchard is located near a forest called the Bramblewood and there is a small highland region nearby called the Old Hills.
Also, if you wanted to subdivide Toman Head, there's another village called Tobin's Hollow which is on the headland itself, west of Aturo's Orchard.
Hope that helps.
That was great info, thanks. I can use that:)
Myrddraal: I have a sollution for that, but it contains sensetive information about the mod(:san_cool: )... I take it with you some day.
cdaulepp
12-11-2005, 19:42
Andreas,
That looks really great. I really appreciate your hard work. Is it possible to move Falme to the end of Toman Head? In the books it was at the very tip, near the ocean.
Is it possible to do the same with Bandar Eban?
I have a comment about Myrdrraal's question about 'should we have unconquerable regions with no cities'...
All of the land in the Wheel of Time is inhabited. Some places like the Caralain Grass don't have huge cities, like they used to, but they have villages and smaller cities spread throughout. The same goes for Almoth Plain, Haddon Mirk, the Plains of Maredo, and the area east of Tar Valon (between Cairhien and Shienar).
Although they are not as heavily populated as they once were they still have small cities. There's an example of one in the region to the east of Tar Valon in The Great Hunt when Rand gets stuck in the time loop.
What has happened is we haven't had their names mentioned in the series yet, but they are there. One area where we do have a bunch of names is Altara. We see there are cities spread all over the countryside. Let me name the ones we have read of throughout the series: Samaha, Tallan, Fyall, So Eban, So Habor, So Tehar, Malden, Cormaed, Sehar, Jurandor, Coramen, Alkandar, Weesin, Mosra, and Remen. That list doesn't include all the new cities' names we learn of in Knife of Dreams that are in northeastern Altara.
So my point is that even though we don't know the names of some of the cities in the looser populated areas, we know they exist. My preference would be to put cities in each region.
I totally understand your concern about keeping the potential of the less inhabited regions low. Is it a solution to this poroblem to make cities in these areas with the minimum amount of population possible?
cdaulepp
Werthead
12-11-2005, 21:18
Actually I think Caralain Grass has an extremely low level of population. Perrin, Egwene, Elyas and the Tinkers don't seem to encounter anyone whilst they are trudging across it in Eye of the World. Maybe small villages are on the plain further to the north (especially towards Tar Valon and the Black Hills where we know villages are located from Path of Daggers), but even so nothing very large.
I'm guessing people have access to the Big White Book for things like flags and details of armies and that sort of thing? It says pretty bleakly in there that population levels have fallen really low and certain areas including Almoth Plain, Shadow Coast, Caralain Grass, Plains of Maredo and Haddon Mirk have been depopulated to the point where they cannot support nations or even cities (Far Madding being an obvious exception).
N.B. Is Shadar Logoth going to be in the game? Don't quite know how you'd do it with the Rome rules though.
Andreas,
That looks really great. I really appreciate your hard work. Is it possible to move Falme to the end of Toman Head? In the books it was at the very tip, near the ocean.
Is it possible to do the same with Bandar Eban?
I have a comment about Myrdrraal's question about 'should we have unconquerable regions with no cities'...
All of the land in the Wheel of Time is inhabited. Some places like the Caralain Grass don't have huge cities, like they used to, but they have villages and smaller cities spread throughout. The same goes for Almoth Plain, Haddon Mirk, the Plains of Maredo, and the area east of Tar Valon (between Cairhien and Shienar).
Although they are not as heavily populated as they once were they still have small cities. There's an example of one in the region to the east of Tar Valon in The Great Hunt when Rand gets stuck in the time loop.
What has happened is we haven't had their names mentioned in the series yet, but they are there. One area where we do have a bunch of names is Altara. We see there are cities spread all over the countryside. Let me name the ones we have read of throughout the series: Samaha, Tallan, Fyall, So Eban, So Habor, So Tehar, Malden, Cormaed, Sehar, Jurandor, Coramen, Alkandar, Weesin, Mosra, and Remen. That list doesn't include all the new cities' names we learn of in Knife of Dreams that are in northeastern Altara.
So my point is that even though we don't know the names of some of the cities in the looser populated areas, we know they exist. My preference would be to put cities in each region.
I totally understand your concern about keeping the potential of the less inhabited regions low. Is it a solution to this poroblem to make cities in these areas with the minimum amount of population possible?
cdaulepp
I agree with you, especially the point of altara. there are cities everywhere but since no main character has been there, we do not hear about them. But I know of ways to restrict it, so i say go settlements everywhere...
And I should be able to do that with Falme, yes:)
Werthead: Even if they cannot support a nation, they can support small cities. About the caralian grass, remeber that they had Elyas as guide, and he would probably want to avoid people. And I do not think Shadar Logoth will be in as a city.
Myrddraal
12-12-2005, 01:00
In the books we are told the Almoth plain is swarming with dragonsworn, which implies that there is some level of population, whereas Caralain grass has hardly any population at all - a huge borderlander army can march through there completely undetected. The same goes for the Black Hills and Haddon Mirk, and some others. So what we are thinking of doing is including a couple tiny towns (and I mean tiny) in the Almoth plain for Tarabon and the Domani to fight over. What we're thinking of doing is including very small settlements in semi-deserted regions like the Black Hills which cannot develop very much - eg very starting population, limits on the amount of farming and other population boosting buildings, possibly high squalor.
However, Caralain grass, Haddon Mirk and the like are utter wildernesses and so I reckon they'd have no major cities, and in practice can't be conquered - you can put armies there but there's nothing to occupy
cdaulepp
12-12-2005, 04:26
I slightly digress with you Myrdrraal. When Mat and Rand first hitch a ride with Bayle Domon in Eye of the World, Domon has been up in Maradon buying stuff. He got on his ship and sailed south along the river Arinelle and then he sailed east and southeast where the River Arinelle meets the River Manetherendrelle (those two rivers meet just east of Baerlon on the book cover).
There would have to be cities along the entire river supporting the river traffic. The riverboats that go up and down those rivers would have to be able to buy food and get supplies to fix their crafts if they broke down or needed repairs.
Looking at the map on the book flaps, Domon's path from Saldaea south to where he joined the Manetherendrelle River isn't actually in the Caralain Grass. It occupies the forested area northwest of the Caralain Grass. But I think my point is there have got to be cities, some of fairly decent size like we see in Altara. I think the only difference is that we haven't had any of the story take place in that part of the world to see how many cities there are and how large.
The cities we see in Altara are in pretty remote locations, yet they are still sizeable cities. Last, but not least, the Tairens who rebelled against Rand and fled to Haddon Mirk would have had to of been able to supply their men with food, etc. If there were no cities in Haddon Mirk, then Darlin would have been able to simply cut off their supply chain with his armies camped outside of Haddon Mirk. But since it was impossible to bring the rebel Tairens out of Haddon Mirk it tells me there are cities there that can and did support half of the Tairens while they were in rebellion against Rand. Those cities had to be large enough to feed their own and all the rebels troops.
I want to say that I am really impressed with all your work. It is great and I'll support you in whatever decision you make.
cdaulepp
12-12-2005, 20:08
Give us more screenshots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :san_grin:
This is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RedPanther1
12-12-2005, 20:52
I think Shadar Logoth should be a wonder. That'd be kool.
Maybe gives units -1 morale, and commanders +1 versus shadowspawn? hm.
Well, here is a new screen... I updated the previous view of Falme after your remarks:
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload5/new_prev.gif
What do you think?
Also, here you can see one of the religious icons. Cheers!
More screens will come.
Antagonist
12-12-2005, 21:26
Looking better all the time. :san_cool:
I like the religious icons too. Has the list of what religions will be used been finalised, or can you tell us that?
Antagonist
cdaulepp
12-12-2005, 21:44
Looks great. Take 10 pictures or so and upload them. I want to see the whole continent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :san_grin:
cdaulepp
al'Callaendor
12-12-2005, 22:53
WOW!!! very nice!!!:san_cheesy: :san_cheesy: :san_cheesy:
Werthead
12-13-2005, 00:16
Glad to be of help :) Although I still think Lake Somal should be the name of the big big lake near Katar (some evidence in Crossroads of Twilight, Ituralde fought a battle near Somal around the same time he 'reminded' the Lords of Katar they were part of Arad Doman).
Love the idea of Shadar Logoth as a Wonder. That could work really well. You could have the two Choedan Kal statues, the spire in the Black Hills, maybe even the Artur Hawkwing statue in Caralain Grass and the Talidar monument as wonders as well. Tower of Ghenjei? Probably going too far :)
Is Rhuidean going to be in the game as one of the Aiel cities?
Myrddraal
12-13-2005, 00:24
Love the idea of Shadar Logoth as a Wonder. That could work really well. You could have the two Choedan Kal statues, the spire in the Black Hills, maybe even the Artur Hawkwing statue in Caralain Grass and the Talidar monument as wonders as well. Tower of Ghenjei? Probably going too far :)
Why would that be going to far, there is a method for having as many wonders as you like...
Is Rhuidean going to be in the game as one of the Aiel cities? Rhuidean will be a wonder in the Flame of Tar Valon era (possibly with the effect of making your generals better), in the Dragon's Fang era we may make it a city as it does become inhabited.
I think the Golden Bowl or whatever it is in the Waste should also be a wonder...
moreb_benhk
12-13-2005, 01:33
Its looking good sofar. I do have one slight question. Is the final version of the map going to have greater variation/detail in the geography than we have seen in the screenshots. Currently it looks a touch bland, and may lead to too many battles fielded on plain old flat plains, or treeless hills or suchlike.
I can't think of the official names of the statues and if werthead mentioned them I apologize, but what about the two statues that only a man can use and some anonymous female can use to channel the power?
those enourmous statues that people didnt know about and the aes sedai thought were used as a device by the Forsaken?
... anyone know what Im talking about? :san_shocked:
Lord Winter
12-13-2005, 03:10
I can't think of the official names of the statues and if werthead mentioned them I apologize, but what about the two statues that only a man can use and some anonymous female can use to channel the power?
those enourmous statues that people didnt know about and the aes sedai thought were used as a device by the Forsaken?
... anyone know what Im talking about? :san_shocked:
I belive u mean the chosen kal
Myrddraal
12-13-2005, 03:54
the map you see there is a very basic one. Its not much more than an outline of the world
cdaulepp
12-13-2005, 05:01
I know I'm slow so bare with me. You mentioned there were religious icons in the map. Where? I'm not familiar with where to look.
Actually, Soibean and Destroyer of Hope, the statues are sa'angreal, but Rand and Nynaeve use access ter'angreal which allow them to safely channel the huge amount of power that flows through the sa'angreal. They are called "Choedan Kal".
right beneath each city it has an Aes Sedai symbol to show that they worship the light :)
other faiths are the Shadow and the way of the leaf I believe - there is a limit of three on the number of faiths, hardcoded I believe
The religions are: Belief in the Light, ji'e'toh, Belief in the Shadow and Way od the Leaf. The last one will not affect unrest though, that is what is hardcoded.
And I will not give you that much:P I will find a new part of the map for you today or tomorrow:)
IceTorque
12-13-2005, 16:59
G'day all. I see you already have a working map.
May I ask how big it is ? and is there anything I might be able to do to contribute ? with the map side of things.
I sent you an Pm which should contain the info you need ATM. That kind of stuff isn't public:san_lipsrsealed: ..... :san_grin:
Anyway, tomorrow will you get those screens I promised, been working with the religons today so I hadn't time to do it.
The way the whitechokes think is kind of a religion, but if you can only add 3 religions never mind.
They are just an extreme form of the light, really. Like an exterimist. That will be accounted for with traits. Ji'e'toh and the way of the leaf is completely other ways to think.
Werthead
12-14-2005, 01:25
Actually, I meant putting the ToG in might be a Wonder too far since it would be difficult to give it a bonus that makes sense (although since the Finns grant wishes and answer questions, then you could have it granting bonuses to pretty much anything, trade, population rate increase etc).
There is one thing I'm interested in seeing: the city map for Tar Valon. Is it possible in the RTW engine to make something approximating the city as seen and mapped in the novels? Or would it just be a generic-looking RTW city sitting on a big island. I can imagine assaulting it would be fun. And is it possible to get the White Tower or equivalent in there? Or is that purely dependent on what the owner of the city builds?
On the campaign map front, will the Ogier/steddings play a role? A stedding could just be a forested region in which channeler units have reduced attacks (if it's possible to limit them by terrain like that).
Well, we are not at the point of adding wonders just yet, so we will have to see on that in the future.
And it is possible to make Tar Valon look a bit different then other cities, yes. If the white tower will be in it is a question for later. The work of making battlefield buildings specific for one city will not be the most prioritated subject, I am afraid, since IMO it is more important to do the stuff that makes the game playble:san_rolleyes:
Spanish inquisition I suppose
New screen you will get today... this time, the malkeir borders at summer an winter. Remeber that this is only a beta map.
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload6/border_winter.gif
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload6/border_summer.gif
Very nice.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought Malkier was more towards the right of Shienar.
Antagonist
12-14-2005, 21:39
Looks very nice (although the Mountains of Dhoom don't look very imposing or scary) Still, beta map etc. Nice work.
Antagonist
very nice, I thought Malkier was more to the right also - I remember Lan remarking that Shienar wasn't a true Borderland until Malkier fell - so I assumed Malkier was a buffer between Shienar and the Blight...
and you could possibly call the city the Seven Towers?
I like tho - but I second Antagonist - Dhoom should look doomish, ehh?
Andreas i cant see the screens you posted
boastj: They work fine for me
And others: Yes, Malkeir is a bit off-place but thst isn't to hard to change. And the Mountains of Doom will be raised a bit, maybe?
Geoffrey S
12-15-2005, 19:52
Looking good.
boastj: They work fine for me
And others: Yes, Malkeir is a bit off-place but thst isn't to hard to change. And the Mountains of Doom will be raised a bit, maybe?
Sounds good.
Well, our goal is to make a game as close to the feeling of the books as we can, and countries "of place" wouldn't do:)
yeah - it's too bad I haven't seen anything official about where Malkier was or it's size - has anyone else?
all I know is what I already mentioned - it being between Shienar and the Blight... we have some figures about the number of soldiers it could muster... maybe that could be used to figure the size?
cdaulepp
12-16-2005, 01:13
SMZ -
If you look closely on the book flaps you can see Malkier outlined with tiny dots. It isn't easy to see, but the outline for Malkier is drawn on the covers.
cdaulepp
4th Dimension
12-16-2005, 01:55
Malkier should be accoring to books betwen blight and Shenar and Arfael. Those two countries wouldn't border with Blight. Also I think M should control Tarwin's gap.
Three main mountain ranges (Mountains of doom (to the north), Spine of the world (to the east) and Mountains of the Myst) should be realy high (expecialy Spine of the world in the region of jangai pass). The should have passes but not too much of them (Spine has only three (one by the Myaene, Jangai pass and one in shienar)). mountains of Myst should be impasable (we don't want Arad domain armies looting and burning trought andor). For mountains of doom I sugest apart from Tarwin's gap which should be a pretty vide valy, there should be one or two passes per borderlander border teritory.
thanks cdaulepp! I don't know why I never saw that before...
oh an 4th - doesn't look like it covers Arafel to me - just goes about halfway between Shol Arbela and Arafels' border with Shienar... so Arafel still borders the Blight
You are so right, fellow team member. It goes to exactly the point you mentioned, no more...
And yes, those mountains will be pretty high...
Werthead
12-16-2005, 22:52
There are passes leading through the Mountains of Mist from Almoth Plain to Ghealdan and the Two Rivers (our heroes pass through one in The Dragon Reborn and loads of refugees arrive in the Two Rivers from Almoth between The Shadow Rising and Lord of Chaos). However, I agree that the mountains should be kept impassable in the game. A few small groups slipping through the mountains is different to a large army equipped with baggage trains forcing its way through.
How about calling the Shadow's main town Thakan'dar (as that's where the Trollocs and Myrddraal based near Shadar Logoth seem to live and forge their weapons) and have a huge volcano behind it as Shayol Ghul? Or have a city named Shayol Ghul with the volcano behind it as close as possible?
Interesting tidbit from the World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel Time (aka The Big White Book): there is a mountain range along the southern border of Cairhien called the Maraside Mountains. There is only one pass through these mountains, the Jolvaine, which terminates at a town called Endersole, destroyed in the climatic battle between Artur Hawkwing and Guaire Amalasan. Hope that helps with the campaign map.
4th Dimension
12-16-2005, 23:37
Ah yes, Dragonmount and SG as werry tall vulcanoes are a must. They do not need to erupt. Just to be there and show on battle map, as when you battle in sicila and can see that volcano.
cdaulepp
12-17-2005, 00:12
Also from the Big White Book (if you have it, look on page 147). There are 5 passes from "Randland" into the Aiel Waste.
1. Tarwin's Gap (in Malkier) "lies in the valley between the Mountains of Doom and the Dragonwall."
2. There are a series of foot paths on the southern edge of Shienar, called the Niamh Passes, that traverse the Dragonwall into the Aiel Waste.
3. Jangai Pass (in Cairhien)
4. An unnamed Pass on the eastern edge of Haddon Mirk. (north of Stedding Shantai)
5. It's possible to go south around the Dragonwall and enter the Aiel Waste (northeast of Mayene) but the Big White Book says going that route is dangerous. The Drowned Lands are an unexplored area and filled with wild animals (I'm thinking boas, pythons, and crocodiles). The Big White Book also says that if someone makes it past the Drowned Lands they would enter the part of the Waste where there is no water at all. I'm thinking an army would die from thirst if they tried to go this way from the way it is described in the Big white Book, so for the game you may wish to make it impassable.
4th Dimension
12-17-2005, 01:12
All in all Jangai and that in Shienar are Army passable. Haddon mirk is a jungle, it would be like moving an army trough Amazon. And that way Aiel will also bother Tear which is kinda unrealistic. Beter leave only passes in Shienar an Jangai passable.
Myrddraal
12-17-2005, 03:22
Also from the Big White Book (if you have it, look on page 147). There are 5 passes from "Randland" into the Aiel Waste.
1. Tarwin's Gap (in Malkier) "lies in the valley between the Mountains of Doom and the Dragonwall."
2. There are a series of foot paths on the southern edge of Shienar, called the Niamh Passes, that traverse the Dragonwall into the Aiel Waste.
3. Jangai Pass (in Cairhien)
4. An unnamed Pass on the eastern edge of Haddon Mirk. (north of Stedding Shantai)
5. It's possible to go south around the Dragonwall and enter the Aiel Waste (northeast of Mayene) but the Big White Book says going that route is dangerous. The Drowned Lands are an unexplored area and filled with wild animals (I'm thinking boas, pythons, and crocodiles). The Big White Book also says that if someone makes it past the Drowned Lands they would enter the part of the Waste where there is no water at all. I'm thinking an army would die from thirst if they tried to go this way from the way it is described in the Big white Book, so for the game you may wish to make it impassable.
We're one step ahead of you there, all those passes are already represented on the map, I won't reveal to you yet which will be passable, though you can probably guess...
There are passes leading through the Mountains of Mist from Almoth Plain to Ghealdan and the Two Rivers (our heroes pass through one in The Dragon Reborn and loads of refugees arrive in the Two Rivers from Almoth between The Shadow Rising and Lord of Chaos). However, I agree that the mountains should be kept impassable in the game. A few small groups slipping through the mountains is different to a large army equipped with baggage trains forcing its way through.
Exactly. Then the passes between Murandy and Altar is more interesting, IMO since they apparently really restricts army movement.
How about calling the Shadow's main town Thakan'dar (as that's where the Trollocs and Myrddraal based near Shadar Logoth seem to live and forge their weapons) and have a huge volcano behind it as Shayol Ghul? Or have a city named Shayol Ghul with the volcano behind it as close as possible?
As I have gotten it, it is the valley that is named Thakan'dar, since Demandred when he arrives at Shayol Ghul watch a smith take a prisoner and bring her into the smithy, just at the slopes of the mountain, which would imply that they are the same palce.
Interesting tidbit from the World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel Time (aka The Big White Book): there is a mountain range along the southern border of Cairhien called the Maraside Mountains. There is only one pass through these mountains, the Jolvaine, which terminates at a town called Endersole, destroyed in the climatic battle between Artur Hawkwing and Guaire Amalasan. Hope that helps with the campaign map.
That could be of great help! Where did you find that anyway (in what passage)...?
And the volcanos are there, trust me:)
Werthead
12-17-2005, 13:41
It's on page 105 of the big white edition, under the chapter 'The Second Dragon and the Rise of Artur Hawkwing'.
"Artur Hawkwing was moving south out of Tova, across the Maraside Mountains, (along the present southern border of Cairhien), to join the fighting in Khodomar." The mountains can be seen in the colour endpaper maps extending along Cairhien's southern border.
Other mountain & hill ranges: the Nemarellin Mountains along Illian's west coast, the Doirlon Hills on Illian's eastern border, the Venir Mountains in southern Altara (along the headland east of Ebou Dar), the Banikhan Mountains along Saldaea's western border (just inland from World's End), the Tunaighan Hills in Andor (just south of Caemlyn), the Hills of Absher in Andor (between Baerlon and Whitebridge), and the Hills of Cumbar along the Andor/Murandy border (deep breath). There's also the Damona Mountains along the Altara/Murandy border, which I'm guessing are the ones on the map that blend into Garen's Wall and also the ones mentioned where Pedron Niall fought a great battle (Jhamara) in the Whitecloak War.
This may also be of help: apparently Robert Jordan gave a scale to the RPG designers whilst they were working on the RPG sourcebook. On the colour endpaper maps in the hardback editions of books 6-11, approximately 1 inch=400 miles.
cdaulepp
01-03-2006, 02:56
More pics please. The whole map!!!!! One pic every two or three weeks is weak.
cdaulepp
haha - *bugs Andreas for you*
Myrddraal
01-03-2006, 04:36
you'll get a demo soon... Only 2 models to go before we have all the units for the demo. Some of you have said you like Pedron Niall, well soon you'll be able to lead or fight his armies. If you still want pics after that, I'll go throw myself off a bridge or something...
Woha, for you to get the whole map would be pretty stupid, eh;) Then you would have nothing to wait for in the full game later:)
4th Dimension
01-03-2006, 13:32
Well we'll be satisfied with screens of pieces of map then. Just something to make our waiting easier.
Werthead
01-03-2006, 23:08
The demo is nearly done? Wahey! ~:thumb:
GreyHuntr
01-04-2006, 10:10
Hooray, I can't wait to play as the Children. I think I'm one fo the very few people in the world that likes them. At an RJ book signing, a buddy and I showed up in armor and white cloaks with the sunburst and everything, ROFL.
4th Dimension
01-04-2006, 13:03
Because of likes of you I feel less wierd :D
Myrddraal
01-04-2006, 22:57
Hi there GreyHuntr :grin: Welcome to the forums and its always good to see another WoT fan out there :smile:
GreyHuntr
01-06-2006, 10:36
To see the look on RJ's face was worth it. To quote him, we weren't his "favorite group of people".
Good to hear that the demo is coming, keep it up.
4th Dimension
01-06-2006, 21:37
To see the look on RJ's face was worth it. To quote him, we weren't his "favorite group of people".
Ahh that's why Pedron Nial had to die. Pedron Nial for DR.
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