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Spoonfrog
03-08-2005, 18:57
Anouncing the Sicilian campaign map....

EDIT: The campaign is now finished. Download here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily.zip).

EDIT 2: For discussion about version 2 of the Sicilian campaign map, starting in 410BC, featuring Carthage, the Greek Cities and the Siculi (native Sicilians), see page 2 of this thread and onwards...

This is noway near a total conversion mod, just an extra campaign map for the normal game. The map is a campaign for the island of Sicily, starting in 264BC, the beginning of the First Punic War. The map contains 25 regions and has three playable factions; Rome (the senate), Carthage and the Greek Cities. The central region of the map starts under the control of the rebels.

Here are some screenshots of the map in its current state (click to enlarge):

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen1_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen1.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen2_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen2.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen3_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen3.jpg)

Carthage starts with a large portion of western Sicily and the Aeolian Isles (north of Messana), but many of her cities are not very big and have small garrisons. Carthage starts with a large navy and some good cities in the extreme west of the island. The Senate starts with only three provinces, two of which are on mainland Italy. The roman cities are quite well-developed at the start but the romans do not have a very large navy. The Greek Cities are somewhere inbetween, with less regions than Carthage but more than the Romans, and an average strength navy.

EDIT: By Myrddraal, I have corrected the image link.

Monkwarrior
03-08-2005, 19:36
Good job! ~:cheers:

Is the map fully playable at the moment? Which region is the hidden Latium?

Are you considering to modify the duration of each turn?
I think with the dimensions of Sicily, 6-month-turn isn't too much realistic. Perhaps 1-month turn?

Good luck with this project! ~;)

Spoonfrog
03-08-2005, 19:58
Yes, the map is fully playable but there are a few more things to sort out before it is ready for release. There is no "Latium" region, the only repurcussions of this are that clicking on the "faction" button results in CTD (crash to desktop), which in my view is not serious (and is a handy way of quiting the game quickly whilst editing the map!) The AI seems to be coping fairly well with the different map, but can be slow to attack. I'm not too sure about how to change the period of a turn but I agree it would be better to have shorter turns if possible.

Myrddraal
03-09-2005, 21:33
What do you mean: The period of a turn? Do you mean the number of turns a year?

If so, see this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44648)

Spoonfrog
03-09-2005, 21:50
More screens (click to enlarge)...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen4_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen4.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen5_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen5.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen6_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen6.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen7_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen7.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen8_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen8.jpg)

Added forests and improved the heights. Also defined the mercenary areas:
Western Sicily: Numidian, libyan and balearic mercs
Central Sicily: Barbarian, peltast and hoplite mercs
Eastern Sicily: Peltast, hoplite, rhodian slinger and cretan archer mercs
Southern Italy: Samnite and hoplite mercs

The only things left to sort out are the radar maps for faction selection and the water depths.

Would anyone be interested in trying out the map for me and making suggestions on where it could be improved as a kind of beta test. What I particularly need to know whether factions should start with more/less units and whether some cities are too developed/undeveloped at the start of the game.

Spoonfrog
03-09-2005, 21:54
Ooo thanks Myrddraal that is exactly what I wanted I didnt realise it had already been finished.

Myrddraal
03-10-2005, 11:57
You should smooth out the shores, they look too jagged.

Spoonfrog
03-10-2005, 17:23
I do not believe it is possible to have smoother shores, as map_regions.tga only measures 100x60 pixels. I have not seen any other campaign maps that have smoother shorelines.

Duke John
03-10-2005, 17:29
Edit the height map. As long as you are 1 or 2 pixels off it doesn't really matter much.

Myrddraal
03-10-2005, 17:34
Yes, in fact the regions and the heights don't need to be related at all, it won't cause a CTD, though it will have some very very weird effects as I found out the hard way...

map_regions doesn't actually determine the shape of the land, map_heights does.

caesar44
03-10-2005, 18:06
Anouncing the sicilian campaign map....

This is noway near a total conversion mod, just an extra campaign map for the normal game. The map is a campaign for the island of Sicily, starting in 264BC, the beginning of the First Punic War. The map contains 25 regions and has three playable factions; Rome (the senate), Carthage and the Greek Cities. The central region of the map starts under the control of the rebels.

Here are some screenshots of the map in its current state (click to enlarge):

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen1_thumb.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen2_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen2.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen3_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen3.jpg)

Carthage starts with a large portion of western Sicily and the Aeolian Isles (north of Messana), but many of her cities are not very big and have small garrisons. Carthage starts with a large navy and some good cities in the extreme west of the island. The Senate starts with only three provinces, two of which are on mainland Italy. The roman cities are quite well-developed at the start but the romans do not have a very large navy. The Greek Cities are somewhere inbetween, with less regions than Carthage but more than the Romans, and an average strength navy.

EDIT: By Myrddraal, I have corrected the image link.

why greek cities and not hiero of syracuse
:book:

Spoonfrog
03-10-2005, 21:44
Well, I intended this to be just a campaign map to be used with the original game not a full blown mod - though it would be great to make native sicilian tribes and so on I do not have the skills...

What I have done is on the faction selection screen it says "Syracuse" not "Greek Cities" and the faction blurb reads like this:

"Syracuse had long maintained her position at the crossroads of the Mediterranean, and long wars with Carthage had done nothing to dislodge her. However, the days looked dark indeed in 264BC when Carthage was in possession of more than half of Sicily. The Roman occupation of Messana brought a third spark to the bonfire of Sicily, and that was enough to start the blaze. You must choose either to repel the roman invaders or make an alliance with them so that they can help you destroy the Carthaginian presence on the island."

If there are any Sicilian history buffs reading please feel free to correct my mistakes lol.

caesar44
03-11-2005, 14:45
nice
~:cheers:

Spoonfrog
03-15-2005, 18:59
Latest screens.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen9_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen9.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen10_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen10.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen11_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen11.jpg)

The map is basically finished now I am just ironing out some things before release. I am also having problems finding web hosting. Still need some testers if anyone else is interested.

dclare4
03-16-2005, 00:49
Sure count me in! Is it meant to run from the provincial campaign option? I can be reached at:

lordclare516 AT yahoo DOT com

Cheers,
Clare

Laridus Konivaich
03-19-2005, 21:33
Spoonfrog,

Have you tried to send me the campaign yet? Because I have not received anything.

Thanks,

~Prince Laridus Konivaich

Kraxis
03-20-2005, 01:14
This should be possible to add on top of the normal game, just with another campaign. A very userfriendly addition I must say. ~D

Anyway, the only thing I missed was the city of Drapana, but I guess it it too close to Lilybaeum.

Spoonfrog
03-21-2005, 21:36
Yes, I think Drepanum is the port of Lilybaeum.

Spoonfrog
04-05-2005, 22:01
Sorry no updates for a while, but the sicilian campaign is now ready for download:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily.zip

The campaign can run with the normal game without affecting anything. The imperial and proloque campaigns remain untouched and the sicilian campaign runs under the provincial campaign option. It has not been tested with any mods but it is possible that it might work with a mod if it includes the senate, the greek cities and carthage...

Known issues:
- The senate AI is not very aggressive
- Clicking on the faction button results in CTD
- Very occasionally, initiating a battle results in CTD (regular autosaving stops this being too much of a problem).
- Storms seem to happen alot (I think this is a rather good effect, but entirely accidental).

If this campaign turns out to be popular, I will consider making some updates/improvements...

Laridus Konivaich
04-09-2005, 16:55
I am not sure if this a problem with the campaign, or more likely just a game quirk, but I present everyone with 'The Well Defended City':
http://img111.exs.cx/img111/5666/multiwalledcity1py.th.jpg (http://img111.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img111&image=multiwalledcity1py.jpg)
The weird thing was that there were two sets of walls in the city when I conquered it. The wooden wall in the build menu was unbuildable for me, and went away as soon as I clicked to build stone walls. I checked on the battlemap, but (un)fortunately nothing unusual was going on with the walls there...

Magnus Imperator Maximus
04-10-2005, 09:44
Hi,
I am going to test it with RTW 1.2 and RTR 5.4.1 and i will let you know soon if it will work.

Spoonfrog
04-11-2005, 16:23
Oops I thought I had fixed the city with two walls!

Another known issue:
-Sometimes the game starts with the message: Carthage Victorious. Try restarting if this is the case.

Wishazu
04-12-2005, 04:28
ive saved the campaign to desktop. how do i install it to my game?

Wishazu
04-12-2005, 04:57
ok i got it working. read the read me :) good effort mate, this campaign is the first time ive played a regular rome campaign since installing RTR. very well done ~:cheers:

Spoonfrog
04-12-2005, 17:45
Thanks ~:)

Just to let you know, the map will be more realistic with the "four turns a year" script. This can found on the Guild somewhere, I will post a link...

EDIT: here it is: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44648

hannibal_barca
04-14-2005, 21:23
i have always wished someone would make a mod like this(I suck at modding, I have been working on a carthage and numidia fix for rtr 5.4 for two days and then when making a new city I created a fatal error and had to star over :furious3: )

Wishazu
04-14-2005, 23:14
Thanks ~:)

Just to let you know, the map will be more realistic with the "four turns a year" script. This can found on the Guild somewhere, I will post a link...

EDIT: here it is: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44648

are their instructions on how to incorporate this script. im a complete noob with these things, ive got the standard 2 turns a year one working. also will this new script mean i have to start a new sicily campaign?

Myrddraal
04-15-2005, 10:51
The instructions are on the first page, but apparently there have been problems with the script generator, I will have a look though...

SicilianVespers
04-28-2005, 12:39
I finally gave in, and installed RTW. This is the first mod I am "trying" to install (it's so different from MTW), so be gentle, I am not really a noob :dizzy2:


First, thanks Spoonfrog, you must have been reading my mind. If you need any help at all, just let me know...cities, leaders, history, etc...

Right off the top of my head, you could give the Siculans (Sicels or Sikels) the interior of the island. Ducetius was their King, and was one of the last, and most dangerous native leaders before Siculan culture was completely Hellenized. He really gave the Greeks alot of trouble. I would have to check the date, he may be too early for the time period.

Now to my technical difficulties.

I followed the directions in the readme.

1) Created the Sicily folder (empty), and copied your files into it.

2) Copied the Sicily_can't_remember_the_rest into the regular RTW text folder.

3) added the text to the other file, just copied and pasted in notepad.

now the problem...

When I select a faction, any faction, it CTD's....what did I do wrong?

SicilianVespers
04-28-2005, 14:34
Here some information concerning Ducetius:

Ducetius of Sicily (http://www.livius.org/do-dz/ducetius/ducetius.html)


Ducetius (†440 BCE): native Sicilian leader who founded a state similar to that of the Greek tyrants on his island.

The story of Ducetius is told by Diodorus of Sicily, a Greek historian of the late first century BCE. He uses an earlier source that can be identified with Timaeus of Tauromenion, again a Greek author. The inevitable result is, of course, that Diodorus's story is told from a Greek perspective. Ducetius is presented as a national leader of the native population of Sicily, the Sicels, and his career is seen as some sort of insurrection against the Greek settlers. This is probably incorrect. Ducetius's successes were possible because he copied Greek methods. He did not resist Greek culture, but was part of it.

Among Ducetius's examples must have been the famous tyrant of Gela and Syracuse, Gelon. Together with Theron of Acragas he had started to unify the Sicilian towns in two big territorial states. In 480, the two tyrants had defeated their main opponents, Terillus of Himera and his Carthaginian ally Hamilcar, near Himera. One of Gelon's instruments to divide his opponents and tighten his grip on conquered territories had been to resettle people in newly founded towns. It had been very successful and although Gelon had died in 478, his brother Hiero continued this policy. After Hiero's death in 467, Syracuse became a democracy.

There were some accompanying troubles, for example when war broke out between Syracuse and its former colony Catana. In 461/460, the Syracusans attacked the settlers, and received help from Ducetius, who bore a grudge against the Catanans as well, because they had occupied Sicel territories. The united armies captured Catana and divided its land. Its inhabitants were resettled in Aetna, southwest of Mount Etna.

Ducetius proceeded to found a city of his own, called Menai, and occupied Morgantina. In 453/452, he had united almost all of the interior of Sicily in a new federation. The crowning achievement was another new city: Palikê, near the shrine of two geyser gods who were venerated by the Sicels. Palikê must have been an impressive site with very strong walls, and grew rapidly because runaway slaves were released once they had reached the sanctuary.

After capturing Aetna, Ducetius made incursions into the territory of Acragas. By now, he had been active for some ten years and Acragas and Syracuse, old allies, decided to intervene (451). The first battle was undecided. In the next year, however, Ducetius was forced to flee, entered Syracuse -an unexpected action-, entered the market place, and sat down at the altars of the gods. The Syracusans felt uneasy. Ducetius had once been their ally and had done them nothing wrong; on the other hand, they could not leave him alone, because he was too powerful. He was therefore left alive, and sent to Corinth, the mother city of Syracuse. The Syracusans even paid his expenses.

In 448/447, Ducetius escaped and returned, rose to power again, and started to pay attention to the north, understanding that Syracuse in the east and Acragas in the southwest were better left alone. (The two towns, without common enemy, immediately started a war.) Ducetius founded Kalê Aktê ("fair promontory"), which included not only Sicel settlers, but also Corinthians. This suggests that the city where he had been exiled supported his action. In 440, he fell ill during an attempt to unite the people of northern Sicily. His state disintegrated and his capital Palikê was sacked.


I haven't had the opportunity to look at your map yet, but Acragas is the Roman Agrigentum, my home town in Sicily.

The Siculi would be a good name for this faction, if you decide run with it.

Laridus Konivaich
04-28-2005, 14:40
try going to data/world/map/campaign/sicily/ and if there is a file named map.rwm, then delete it. This may clear up the problem, otherwise I don't knwo what could be wrong.

SicilianVespers
04-28-2005, 14:58
Thanks, I'll try that when I get home.

I think I will just delete it all, and start over.

Laridus Konivaich
04-28-2005, 15:32
Well, basically you delete map.rwm because if there were any changes in the campaign since it was last generated, the campaign will crash. I don't know if the initial map causes problems, because I just deleted when I installed the map.

I am not sure if deleting everything will help - that depends on where/what your problem is.

SicilianVespers
04-28-2005, 18:24
Deleting the map.rwm fixed it.

Thanks for your help.

One thing I spotted on the map, Herclea Minor should be called Herclea Minoa, it was named after the Cretan king Minos (he was buried there after he died in Sicily).

SicilianVespers
04-29-2005, 20:36
Is it very difficult to get rid of the winter snow?

The only place you really find snow is on Mount Etna....

Do I just edit the map_climates.tga ?

Laridus Konivaich
04-29-2005, 22:47
Yes, you just need to edit map_climates.tga

use RGB 0 114 188 to get a non-snowing climate, same one as in Greece on the Imperial Campaign map, for a suggestion. The other climates are listed in one of the map tutorials...

SicilianVespers
04-30-2005, 15:44
Thanks, it worked.

I used the Mediterranean RGB 236, 0, 140. Is there a difference between winter and summer with 0, 114, 188?

I would like to find one that has a lush green winter and a dry summer.

I want to try to get snow appear on the top of Mount Etna next.

This is a great map, but I am biased of course. I am getting ready to push the Romans out of Messana.

Laridus Konivaich
04-30-2005, 16:32
Well, the climates are:

Sub-Arctic - Dark Green RGB(0, 166, 81)
Alpine - Green RGB(57, 181, 74)
Highland - Light Green RGB(141, 198, 63).
Swamp - Yellow RGB(255, 242, 0)
Deep Temperate Forest - Light Orange RGB(247, 148, 29)
Light Temperate Forest - Orange RGB(242, 101, 34)
Infertile Temperate Grassland - Red RGB(237, 28, 36)
Fertile Temperate Grassland - Dark Pink RGB(237, 20, 91)
Mediterranean - Pink RGB(236, 0, 140)
Semi-Arid - Blue RGB(0, 114, 188)
Sandy Desert - Dark Purple RGB(102, 45, 145)
Rocky Desert - Mauve RGB(146, 39, 143)

I think that the ones in bold are the most likely options, but I am using Semi-Arid currently for Greece, and it seems pretty lush to me!

But I can' t think of any climates that really do what you described (lush winter, parched summer), so I'm no sure if that is possible.

about Mount Etna: I am not sure if snow will actually appear ON the volcano, but try the alpine or highland climate types for the area around it, since they are probably the best bets.

UltraWar
05-06-2005, 18:53
This MOD is ace and i like what i saw :gring: ~:cheers:
I LOVE THIS MOD!!!

Spoonfrog
05-07-2005, 11:55
Hey thanks for your support guys...

As for creating a native sicilian faction, I am not a modeller so I can't really do that :embarassed: But if anyone else wants to create a sicilian faction or try to turn this into a proper mod they are welcome to do so. I am happy to make a "version 2" of this map (I know there were many mistakes with the first one), so could people please post a list of corrections/imporvements they would like to see in the next one?

~:cheers:

Laridus Konivaich
05-07-2005, 14:19
Do these if this is to remain a plug-in campaign:

1) The province with Enna or Henna should be split into two provinces.

2) Include a sicil Faction. This should not require modeling,depending on what you do with it, but will involve skinning and other image editing. Are there any factions that could be used for Sicils with minimal changes? Dacia has about the color sceme that I would want the Sicils to have, so maybe use them. If you can get away with it, only have one or two units for them that are unique. If there are only a couple of units, leave the other campaigns alone, by creating a new hidden resource, sicily_camp and puttig it in every region of your campaign map.

3) Add a victory region to the map. I don't know which one this should be. This is so the game won't CTD if you click on the faction menu

4) Replace the Senate with the Julii. Same, as the Senate faction menu causes CTD

5) Change the climate so that the whole island does not get snowy in winter

//

6) Since this is in 1.2 (I think), see if you can use the mod:MY_MOD feature, so that you can change more stuff about the Sicils faction without effecting other parts of the game.

7) If you decide to go with 6) and it works, and a sicilian history buff who can design the new faction for us.

8)

UltraWar
05-09-2005, 17:43
you could add malta to it if you wanted to edit the map more also replace SPQR with Scipii and add in faction descriptions in v2.0 if you are making it :book: :duel: :charge:

SicilianVespers
05-10-2005, 12:47
I can help with the native "Siculi" faction information, if you need it.

The more I think about it, a Siculan faction probably wouldn't be a great idea this late 270's BC? We were pretty much Hellenized by this time.

A second campaign set around 400 BC with Syracuse, Acragas (Agrigentum), Carthage, the Siculi, and the Brutii (not the family, the tribe in the toe of Italy) has some possibilities.

I have the original Siculan names for many of the Sicilian cities, in my research papers somewhere. For example Syracuse was originally Suraka, and PLK is correct Enna should be Henna.

I also have the Siculan names for their gods. Hadranus was the War god, The Palici were twin volcanic gods.

Just let me know what you need....

Spoonfrog
05-11-2005, 19:45
That is exactly what I was thinking... except I would have had Bruttium as held by rebels... If we could get hold of a modeller to make a few units for the native Sicilians... SicilianVespers - what regions/settlements could there be in central Sicily other than Henna?

SicilianVespers
05-13-2005, 20:40
I'll have to dig out my maps, I'll will try to get you a list over the weekend.

SicilianVespers
05-14-2005, 14:46
Here are a few possibilities:

Engyum - Half way between Henna and Halaesa, but west of both.

Motyum - West of Henna, and half way between Henna and Akragas.

Inycum - North west of Akragas.

Paropus - South of Himera and Thermae, and east of Hippana.

How many cities are you looking to add?

Concerning Agrigentum, if the campaign is pre-Roman, the name should be Akragas. It's name was changed (latinized?) to Agrigentum after it became a Roman colony, so if you make a 400's BC campaign, I would call it Akragas.

If I can do anything else, just let me know.

Spoonfrog
05-16-2005, 18:35
Here is a rough idea of a possible map for the 400'sBC campaign:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicilymap.jpg

The factions will be the Greek Cities, Carthage and the Siculi, probably represented by the Gauls unless we can get someone to model and skin some units.

SicilianVespers
05-17-2005, 13:28
Looks good! We should also add Palike, this was Ducetius' capital. I believe it would be located in the south east of Henna, and northern part of Camarina.

It would be good if we could find someone to do the skins. I would envision the Siculi/Sikels as a Hellenized barbarian faction. They were in contact with Greece & Anatolia since before Minoan times, and were not really barbarians. Maybe something like Thrace?

I am not sure how much you know about early Sicily, so here is some background for anyone interested.

There were three native tribes in Pre-Greek Sicily:

Siculi - Greeks called us Sikels, lived in the east. Italic related to the Latins.
Sicani - Lived in the west. Legend says they were from Iberia, but the material culture and archeology is same as the Siculi. Just to clarify, It wouldn't be proper to give them Iberian units at this time.
Elymi - Supposedly descended from Trojans or at least Aegeo-Anatolian peoples, lived in the north west. Eryx, Entella, Panormus, & Hippana area.

A fourth tribe could be added, the Morganti. They were a cremating Italic people that came after the 1200 BC some time. They didn't make a great impact on Siculan culture, was limited to Lipari and Milazzo area in the NE. By this time I don't think they can be distingished from the Siculi.

There were two waves of Indo-European Italic in Italy. An earlier inhuming (burying dead) and a second, later cremating group.

Even though the myths say they came from diffenent areas, the culture was the same for all three tribes. The Siculan culture was heavily influenced by the Aegeo-Anatolian cultures. rock-cut tholos (bee hive) tombs, palaces, etc. I was actually able to get into one of these 4,000 year old tombs, so cool.

The Sicilian Greeks should be called Sikeliots, and they called the island Sikelia.

Latin - Siculi & Sicilia
Greek - Sikels & Sikelia

Siculan Gods:
The Palici/Palikoi - Twin Volcanic/Geyser Gods.
Hadranus - War God, similar to Ares/Mars.
Would have to find my papers to get more....

Enough schooling, (I am currently writing a book on the Pre-History of Sicily, so I can't help myself)

MiniKiller
05-18-2005, 05:12
i to cant get this to work. i select a faction, hit begin campaign and its a ctd.

Laridus Konivaich
05-18-2005, 05:29
First, try going to \data\world\maps\campaign\sicily and deleting the file map.rwm, this is usually the problem.

MiniKiller
05-18-2005, 18:22
Thanks I'm trying that now...oh also is thjeir a description for the campaign? I copy pasted the stuff from the readme where it told me to but when I select the campaign it just says no description. no biggie tho...neway....

yup that worked. thanks. Im so dumb, when I posted this reply last night I didnt even realize there was 2 pages of replies lmao.

Spoonfrog
05-18-2005, 20:56
There is no way (that anyone has discovered yet...) to get faction descriptions to work :(

Anyhow, here's the start of the 400 BC campaign:
The Italian section looked rather too big for just the two regions so I did a google search for Greek colonies in Bruttium (or Magna Graecia) and added some extra cities. Strictly speaking Kaulonia should probably be just off the map to the east but I thought I'd squeeze it on there anyway... Annoyingly, the radar is squashed because the map has different proportions to the imperial campaign. Interestingly, the prologue campaign gets round this - anyone know how to get the minimap to display like the prologue one?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen1.jpg

Spoonfrog
05-18-2005, 21:04
And in winter:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen2.jpg

By the way, ignore the Messana bit of the map visible on the left - I have only done the Italian bit so far...

Monkwarrior
05-19-2005, 00:56
There is no way (that anyone has discovered yet...) to get faction descriptions to work :(

Anyhow, here's the start of the 400 BC campaign:
The Italian section looked rather too big for just the two regions so I did a google search for Greek colonies in Bruttium (or Magna Graecia) and added some extra cities. Strictly speaking Kaulonia should probably be just off the map to the east but I thought I'd squeeze it on there anyway... Annoyingly, the radar is squashed because the map has different proportions to the imperial campaign. Interestingly, the prologue campaign gets round this - anyone know how to get the minimap to display like the prologue one?


The description that doesn't work is that of the campaign. Faction descriptions are fine.

For the radar map, you have two options:
1) delete radar_map1 and radar_map2 from the imperial campaign to eliminate the background full map

2) prepare two new radar_maps of Sicily with the correct dimensions (see the tutorials). Depending on the size, it will be shown with no distorsion, although either too small or too big (some part won't be visible).

Spoonfrog
05-19-2005, 07:37
Yeah sorry I meant campaign description not faction description :dizzy2:

Thanks for the help I'll try that...


EDIT: Worked...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen3.jpg

Thanks monkwarrior

cunctator
05-19-2005, 18:23
A greeks vs. carthage campaign is a great idea.

A few suggestions:
Have you ever thought about expanding your map to the west to include a part of africa with carthage?
Also I think Messana was still named Zankle at this time.
Start the campaign in 410BC when carthage intervented in the conflict between segesta and selinunt. The first of many greek carthagininan wars after 70 years of peace.

SicilianVespers
05-19-2005, 18:52
That's correct Messana was still called Zankle. It means sickle in the Siculan language, I believe it had to do with the shape of the harbor.

The name of Gela is also Siculan, Gela means freezing or cold in Siculan.

Spoonfrog
05-20-2005, 12:15
Ok thanks for the corrections guys, Messana renamed to Zankle.

I did think about including Carthage, but it would have made that faction too powerful. My next project might be an extension of the prologue map to the south and to the west, which add northern Tunisia, Corsica, Sardinia and the rest of Sicily to the prologue map.

What faction should be used for the Sikels? I was thinking the Gauls or the Spanish...

EDIT: or Thrace, having looked at what you said previously...

Monkwarrior
05-20-2005, 12:45
My next project might be an extension of the prologue map to the south and to the west, which add northern Tunisia, Corsica, Sardinia and the rest of Sicily to the prologue map.

Have a look at this.
Perhaps somebody is working on this direction.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=47793

SicilianVespers
05-20-2005, 13:31
hmm, I would stay way from the Gauls. We do have red-heads, but a whole army of red-headed Sicilians would be odd.

I would lean to the Thracians since they are already a Hellenized faction. You already have a mix of Greek & Barbarian type units.

Mercenary units should include Sikels, Gauls, and Iberians.

KingJo5
05-20-2005, 16:47
I sucsessfully have a good map of the whole of Italy, sardinia, corsica and southern gual, its in good working condition, and im perfecting it for my small modification, its looking very good so far, and is perfect for my ITALIA ~ TOTAL WAR and SPARTACUS ~ TOTAL WAR
im more then pleased to perhaps help you out, if we come to some sort of deal,
with the help of monkworrior i enlarged the map,
at the moment its stands at 200 by 200
however, i plan to add even more,
thanks and cheak it out please,

Spoonfrog
05-20-2005, 21:48
Well I had just envisioned a map covering the same area as yours but set before the First Punic War, with factions as Carthage, Greek Cities, Gauls, Senate and one other Roman faction. It was just an idea, I already have the Sicilian campaign map and the Troy: Total War campaign map to work on at the moment.

Spoonfrog
05-23-2005, 19:17
Map showing regions and starting positions:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen4.jpg

Starting cities of Carthage:
-Motya
-Lilybaeum
-Drepana
-Panormus
-Melita

Starting cities of Syracuse:
-Syracuse
-Akrae
-Leontini
-Helorus
-Kamarina

Starting cities of the Siculi:
-Henna
-Engyum
-Motyum
-Inycum
-Paropus

Screens of the actual map to follow as soon as I have sorted out resources...

Spoonfrog
05-23-2005, 21:14
The western end of the island:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen5.jpg

Malta:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen6.jpg

GoreBag
05-28-2005, 22:10
I'm really anxious to play V2 of this mod. I'd never had an interest in the indigenous Sicilian population before, but now I'm fascinted. Don't get too distracted with Troy, there; you have a bit of a fanbase for Sicily growing.

Fabius
05-29-2005, 04:27
Thankyou Spoonfrog .I Like your map ..it reminds me of V.I expansion because of its size.Its refreshing to see a smaller map for a change unlike most mods.Keep up the good work. ~:cheers: Are you planning on more for this mod? I hope so ~D Has anyone tried this ovr RTR? I ask because i want the units an skins.

Spoonfrog
05-31-2005, 20:58
Sorry no updates for a while, I am still working on this, I just need prodding into activity every now and again... ~:)

After testing the map as it is, I have found that the gameplay doesnt really get exciting until about 10+ turns in - this is because the factions do not start close enough to each other, so the first few turns are taken up by capturing annoying rebel regions. I think the best way of solving this would be to spread the greek cities' regions out, giving them lots of isolated provinces like in the imperial campaign.

Some more screens:

Current starting position of the greek cities - too bunched in my opinion...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen7.jpg

Starting position of Thrace (Siculi)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen8.jpg

Mount Etna and some rebel cities
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen9.jpg

:book: The campaign will start in 410 BC, when Carthage owned just a small section of the island, and Syracuse had influence over almost the whole island. What happened in history was that a city called Segesta and a city called Selinus (both in western Sicily) had a dispute, and each called in powerful allies (Segesta, Carthage and Selinus, Syracuse) to settle the matter. A war between Carthage and Syracuse thus started, which resulted in large parts of western Sicily becoming Carthaginian. :book:

Here are some sites about the history of the war:

http://www.livius.org/sh-si/sicily/sicily03.html#Fifth
http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/carthage-sicily.htm

As for new units, all I can do is make campaign maps... If anyone else could bring any other skills such as modelling or skinning to this project it I am happy to work with them, but at the moment the plan is just another mini campaign.

Epistolary Richard
06-01-2005, 10:15
Looking good, spoonfrog :rtwyes:

GoreBag
06-01-2005, 19:27
Bummer. If I had any skinning ability, I'd offer my help...seeing the Sikels was the most exciting part for me.

Spoonfrog
06-04-2005, 11:56
Does anyone have an ideas as to what the Siculi faction symbols should look like?? I can't really find anything suitable, most sites are in Italian too.

Revamped central Sicily:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily2/screen10.jpg

Laridus Konivaich
06-04-2005, 14:29
Map is looking very good, and better, now, but I think that you may not have enough elevation change? Due to the increased scale, the spaces seem really big to me, I would suggest adding some more forests to the map southeast.

SicilianVespers
06-06-2005, 13:56
The oldest symbol of Sicily, I know of, is the Trinacria (Triskelion):

http://www.grifasi-sicilia.com/iltriceledel1932.jpg

I believe this one is from Roman times, with a Godess' face in the center (Demeter?).

Originally it had a Medusa face with the three leg (representing triangular Sicily).

I will dig around for something purely Siculan.

SicilianVespers
06-10-2005, 12:51
Take a look at this URL, for a Sicanian bull symbol:

http://www.valdikam.it/en/valdikam.htm

Alexander the Pretty Good
06-29-2005, 20:05
It looks like you have many factions that are not implemented. May I suggest that you use them to represent the largest city states not aligned with Carthage, Syracuse, or the Siculi? I don't actually know what city-states were large and independent at the time (heck, I know just about nothing), but I think you should take advantage of the number of factions you have available.

Just an idea, since most mods can only wish for enough factions. A mod of this scope lets you use whole faction slots to represent smaller groups and peoples, and I like the idea.

Can't wait for V2 to come out. :book:

Spoonfrog
07-01-2005, 22:44
I'm kind of losing motivation for this... I'll be going to France for a week or so but when I get back I'll see what I can do... I'd really need some other people to help - at least a skinner and a coder/text file editor if this can be anything more than just a campaign map.

I really like the idea of the city states, Akragas and some other were certainly very independant at the time.

:help: Anyone who is interested in helping please post here or pm me... :help:

charo74
09-20-2005, 03:00
The island of Cossyra (allied of Carthage) was also a naval power in that period, why don't include it?

TheSilverKnight
10-19-2005, 23:30
I just downloaded the map, and I can't play it with the RTW version 1.3 (installed with the installation of Barbarian Invasion). Can someone verify this, or is there something wrong with my installation? ~:confused:

al'Callaendor
10-19-2005, 23:34
nice...but it is very little.

Kraxis
10-19-2005, 23:55
nice...but it is very little.
Bigger isn't always better.

al'Callaendor
10-19-2005, 23:59
maybe...or not. :hide:

GrimSta
10-20-2005, 17:21
i just offerd Spoonfrog help with the skins, just hope he chesk's his PM's ~D

ill have a play around and make a faction symbol for the Sikels, SicilianVespers if you could tell me what you think!, ill upload when i have finished it ~;)

EDIT: Here ye goes!! the 128pixel version of the Siculi icon - this is that bull patera thingy SicilianVespers posted, but i added a border and re-scaled it, i tell thee it was hard work :P

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b190/noxo_cube/128-sicicon.jpg

ill start work on the smaller ones in a mo.....

TheSilverKnight
10-20-2005, 23:07
I've tried again, and I still can't get it to work. Perhaps it's an issue with RTW 1.3?? I'm not sure what to do...does anyone have an idea? :dizzy2:

Alexander the Pretty Good
10-21-2005, 01:44
When does the game crash?

TheSilverKnight
10-21-2005, 02:01
When does the game crash?

I can't even get it to start. Have you tried installing it with RTW 1.3?

Alexander the Pretty Good
10-21-2005, 02:29
Can't say that I have, just trying to guess what the problem is.

Does it start up to the point where the little RTW box comes up in the middle of the desktop, then go to the CA credits screen, and then die?

:book:

TheSilverKnight
10-21-2005, 02:46
Can't say that I have, just trying to guess what the problem is.

Does it start up to the point where the little RTW box comes up in the middle of the desktop, then go to the CA credits screen, and then die?

:book:

I can start the game fine, I can actually play every aspect of the game fine except for this Sicilian campaign map. When I start it, then go to select faction, the game just crashes and quits. iuno what the prob. is! :dizzy2:

GoreBag
10-21-2005, 03:45
There's a problem with playable factions in RTW 1.3. New (vanilla unplayable) factions need entries in a certain file to give them campaign descriptions, or they simply won't work.

I hope this mod picks up speed again. I always liked the idea of it.

TheSilverKnight
10-21-2005, 21:28
There's a problem with playable factions in RTW 1.3. New (vanilla unplayable) factions need entries in a certain file to give them campaign descriptions, or they simply won't work.

I hope this mod picks up speed again. I always liked the idea of it.

What file has to be modified? Do you know?

GrimSta
10-21-2005, 21:32
campiagn_descriptions i think, in your data/text folder


at least thats what you need to edit for the all factions mod ~;)

CoX
04-06-2006, 01:09
Any update or news with this mod i just liked this mod alot! :sweatdrop:

Vegas_Bear
05-30-2006, 09:35
I have a working version of this map for RTW 1.5 and BI 1.6. Waiting for a reply from Spoonfrog, sent him a PM on 05/15/06.

methoz
06-01-2006, 14:02
making for rtw1.5 ? and ca. release?

Vegas_Bear
07-04-2006, 11:37
I made several attempts to contact Spoonfrog for his permission to release the ported version for RTW 1.5. But I didn't get a response. I talked w/ Myrddraal about this. He told me to go ahead and post it since the map wasn't edited, just the files w/ it to make it playable.

All credit for this mod belongs to Spoonfrog. I really liked the map and didn't want his effort to slip away for those patched to 1.5.

Changes to desc_strat file:
-fixed error in some resources locations and them not appearing on map
-added family tree to each faction (Faction leader died = game over)
-added diplomacy section
-fixed start location of some characters

misc changes to file names so they will work with RTW 1.5

for download-

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?catid=96

Look for Sicily map.

Deadhuntr
11-18-2007, 10:02
Where can I download this mod? The link above dose not work.

Fallen Angel
11-29-2007, 13:31
Please update your links. Both the DL forum and the DL link in this thread don't work.

Fallen Angel
11-29-2007, 13:41
Please update your links. Both the DL forum and the DL link in this thread don't work.


Try this:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&id=193&catid=96

Myrddraal
12-05-2007, 19:55
That seems to work fine for me Fallen Angel...

kwatchy
02-15-2010, 20:12
Anouncing the Sicilian campaign map....

EDIT: The campaign is now finished. Download here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/sicily.zip).

EDIT 2: For discussion about version 2 of the Sicilian campaign map, starting in 410BC, featuring Carthage, the Greek Cities and the Siculi (native Sicilians), see page 2 of this thread and onwards...

This is noway near a total conversion mod, just an extra campaign map for the normal game. The map is a campaign for the island of Sicily, starting in 264BC, the beginning of the First Punic War. The map contains 25 regions and has three playable factions; Rome (the senate), Carthage and the Greek Cities. The central region of the map starts under the control of the rebels.

Here are some screenshots of the map in its current state (click to enlarge):

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen1_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen1.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen2_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen2.jpg)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen3_thumb.jpg (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vingilot/sicily/screen3.jpg)

Carthage starts with a large portion of western Sicily and the Aeolian Isles (north of Messana), but many of her cities are not very big and have small garrisons. Carthage starts with a large navy and some good cities in the extreme west of the island. The Senate starts with only three provinces, two of which are on mainland Italy. The roman cities are quite well-developed at the start but the romans do not have a very large navy. The Greek Cities are somewhere inbetween, with less regions than Carthage but more than the Romans, and an average strength navy.

EDIT: By Myrddraal, I have corrected the image link.

The link doesnt work, can you update it?