Ridiculous... read it and laugh

[Reverend Joe]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/2913621023/qid=1110696295/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9523709-0229513?v=glance&s=books

Take a look at this. This is the most ridiculous crap I have ever seen.

If you actually start to fall for it, just take a look inside and read the first 10 or so pages- the guy actually manages to discredit himself.

I decided to post this at Europa Barbororum because, being historians, you will all enjoy a good laugh at this book.

[The Stranger]

64 books ~D

[eadingas]

Yeah, heard of it. Amazing what makes a bestseller these days..

[conon394]

"empirico-statistical methods"

I like that, sounds real nifty, wish I thought that one to peg onto my CV.

[shifty157]

And tell me why you discredit his theories so quickly? Could you yourself in your limited knowledge possibly disprove every one of his points with sound undisputable evidence? If you can do so then you can discredit him. Until then keep your closed-mindedness to yourself.

Have you ever read George Orwell's 1984? I would suggest it.

[BDC]

Well the 900 year old Churches in my town with their original paintings still intact appear to show conventional history.

But you never know eh? You can make statistics show anything you want though.

[Byzantine Prince]

Yeah, these days you can use facts to prove anything. It all depends on what you want to beleave.

[Dux Corvanus]

Don't be so harsh. The other day I met Saint Thomas Becket at the supermarket, and said the same as him... poor man, I told him not to get back London so soon... Those tories... :cry:
:rolleyes:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Could you yourself in your limited knowledge possibly disprove every one of his points with sound undisputable evidence?

I can't definitively prove that invisible goblins don't exist. Doesn't mean I believe in them, though.

[The samnite]

Don't be so harsh. The other day I met Saint Thomas Becket at the supermarket, and said the same as him... poor man, I told him not to get back London so soon... Those tories... :cry:
:rolleyes:

Good one Dux... ~:)

[Big_John]

Don't be so harsh. The other day I met Saint Thomas Becket at the supermarket, and said the same as him... poor man, I told him not to get back London so soon... Those tories... :cry:
:rolleyes:cool. i saw samuel beckett at the gym yesterday. he was lifting and i went up to him and said, "hey, shouldn't you be waiting for godot?", then i laughed. apparently he didn't get the joke because he told me to go f*** myself. i bet he would have laughed if i had made a joke about endgame.. :sad:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

cool. i saw samuel beckett at the gym yesterday. he was lifting and i went up to him and said, "hey, shouldn't you be waiting for godot?", then i laughed. apparently he didn't get the joke because he told me to go f*** myself. i bet he would have laughed if i had made a joke about endgame.. :sad:

~:joker:

I'm now sitting in a pool of my own urine, congratulations.

[Proper Gander]

I can't definitively prove that invisible goblins don't exist. Doesn't mean I believe in them, though.

how would you prove that then?

[Reverend Joe]

Geez, I thought I would find people who believed this crap here...

All you have to do is think about it. How could you possibly believe that all of civilization suddenly "appeared" about a thousand years ago? The guy is even shaky ith his own dates: first he claims civilization is 1000 years old, then he claims Jesus was born in 960 bc, etc... which is it, conspiracy boy?

If you still believe him, take a good look at the reviews: there's one from last year (I think it's in march) written by one of Fomenko's fellow professors. The man points out how this book is the only one of Fomenko's so far that has been even remotely credible, the rest being wierd books about a russian global empire, etc.

Personaly, I think the whole thing is hilarious- especially a global church conspiracy to erase history... may I remind you, dear Fomenko, of a little thing- from your hometown, in fact- called the "Orthdox church"? Started in Consantine Rome? Ring any bells? ~D

(Fomenko): ~:confused:

Sorry- I couldn't resist. Besides, the idea of a mathematician bumbling aound wth history is just so funny to me.

[Reverend Joe]

By the way- invisible goblins do exist. Their sceechings torment me at night.

[eadingas]

I'm confused about all the Amazon reviews, though. Who writes these things? Five stars from everyone??

[Reverend Joe]

I'm confused about all the Amazon reviews, though. Who writes these things? Five stars from everyone??

Most of the reviewers probably aren't that... well... smart. Others are smart but gullible. That goes for both sides (unfortunately for the historians).

I posted a review myself- it's under Joseph Kelly. Not the best, I know, but I did my beat to refer to reviews that did a better job of destroying Fomenko's argument.

[Sheep]

how would you prove that then?

he doesn't have to, the burden of proof is on the person who claims they do.

[Seydlitz]

And tell me why you discredit his theories so quickly? Could you yourself in your limited knowledge possibly disprove every one of his points with sound undisputable evidence? If you can do so then you can discredit him. Until then keep your closed-mindedness to yourself.

Have you ever read George Orwell's 1984? I would suggest it.


I have. And it is my favorite book :), but what it is refering to is a totalitarian state that changes history to make people believe it, ie. 'He who controls the present controls the past and the future' and that type of stuff. Now, the book dosn't have any massive conspiracy theory, and the facts havn't been changed that much in the book. Capitalists have always been ridiculed as being fat men dressed well and in top hats, and that is how they are pictured in 1984. But then again, how did Winston know that he was actually even alive?!?! HOW DO WE KNOW WE ARE ALIVE????

ARE WE REALLY THINKING??

ARE THINGS AROUND US REAL???

What do you know, they teach this kind of stuff in High School right now. If you are doing the International Baccalaureate you are required to take a course known as Theory of Knowledge who's basic foundation is "How do we know what we know?". And the more I listen to it, the more of a load of crap I think it is. It has basically been evolved into a way to stump arguments, and is the stupidest way to argue, from a productivity point of view. It is a way to try and get us to accept other people's views of the world, to get rid of racism and everything....but to me it has evolved too far beyond that. Point is, it dosn't get anything done.

By this whole idea of not having proof, I can therefore claim that Hitler's purge of the Jews, or any such other touchy subject envolving mass slaughter and/or other nasty stuff, was completely acceptable because the Nazi's thought it was a valid theory. How do you know Jew's aren't inferior? How do you know the Aryan's aren't the superior race? Can you disprove me?! (Aside from the fact they lost the war ~;) ).

The only truth there is is that there is a way to make everything work for the best of everyone called reality. Personally, I don't even think some of the morales we live by are realistic, but reality is that history did happen as it did. It is the only thing that exists, and through observing history one can decipher what reality is. There is no question that it can't exist, or else society will collapse. So what is the pointing of questioning if there are no answers? The search for real truth is the search for answers, and if there is no answer the questioning they teach in Theory of Knowledge for example cannot possibly be true, since you can't possibly find any answers.

- Seyd

[Urnamma]

Anyone ever heard of the calender? The sumerians had this nifty system based on cycles of venus, that allow us to predict everything within a 64 year tolerance from the 30th century B.C. onwards. This is a crock of shit, and as a historian, it just makes me rather angry, to tell you the truth.

[Valens]

I've seen this before on the History Channel. Some religious fanatic that thinks God made the universe a thousand years ago. I didn't bother reading the 10 pages of this book so I dunno if it's the same idiot, I only read the back cover. Frankly it's not worth my time. This is trash, absolute trash. Whoever published this book should be ashamed of themselves.

No hard evidence that anything existed before the 11th century? I wonder how much research he did into Chinese history. Maybe only that half of the world existed before 900 years ago, the Earth was like a sliced orange and Europe didn't exist. Write a book about that!

Asia didn't have a dark age. Japan was largely unchanged for centuries, with countless pieces of artwork and even whole buildings such as temples that date back WELL before the 11th century. Myself, I'm Korean. The temple in my grandparents' village near Pusan has stood since the 8th century. There's 1,300 year old manuscripts in vacuum-sealed display cases to prove it.

But I guess this doesn't count, because it's not in Europe.

So maybe Asia used to be a different planet! And it collided with Europe after God made it, and now it's all one big happy planet! Yeah, write a book about that too! In fact, this man has inspired me to write a book about how toasters will one day take over the world. I'm sure in the world's treasure trove of documents I can pick apart enough piecemeal little bits and pieces of evidence and compile them together to support my theory like this guy did.

This book is insulting. I'll steal 100 copies of it so I can make a bonfire out of it. I don't condone stealing, but I don't want my money to end up in this fool's pockets.

[eadingas]

I don't think this one's about religion and world creation, though I could be wrong... he just says there were no ancient times and early middle ages, or rather, that all this has happened over much shorter period of time than is 'assumed'. And that our dating of artifacts is wrong. So your proofs could be as well disproven by him, saying 'how do you know it's 1300 year old?'
Of course the main question in all this should be: why would anyone bother? Why should there be any sort of 'conspiracy' among world historians to hide the truth from all of us? What's there to gain, and who cares?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

What worries me much more than this book is the popularity (#217 on Amazon) of the Politically Incorrect Guide to American History. Written by a junior college professor, it totally rewrites US history. And it's not supposed to be a joke book or anything. - "Suffice it to say that the book asserts that the American Revolution was no revolution at all; that the Civil War was not about slavery; that the so-called robber barons made America great; that the New Deal made the Depression worse; that the war on poverty made poverty worse; that Clinton's intervention in Bosnia was a waste of taxpayer money. Not only does Woods reduce complex events to these kinds of simplistic interpretations, he doesn't even acknowledge that rival interpretations exist."

[Ellesthyan]

Although the guy puts up an interesting question, his theory is near impossible. Now, if anyone would like to read a similar book, but a lot better and with proof (though debatable), I'd advice them Erich von Dänigen. He has created a theory, saying that god(s) were aliens, having come to earth 8000 or 7000 BC... It is a very interesting book, and it has a lot of questions were few historians will find a satisfying answer on.

For example: there is a pillar in Delphi (India) that has stood there according to research for thousands of years; still it is made in a way that we, in our time, don't even know how to make it ourselfs! Now many would say that there are perfect explanations for that, and I assume that they exist, but if you put all these little strange, unexpected things together like von Dänigen has done, it becomes pretty unbelievable.

[eadingas]

Darn, I thought this was going to be a surprise, but now we have to admit it: we're going to have Pyramid-building aliens wandering about in EB! ;)

[Ellesthyan]

~;) Indeed!

[Big_John]

Darn, I thought this was going to be a surprise, but now we have to admit it: we're going to have Pyramid-building aliens wandering about in EB! ;)i knew it!!
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=19893&st=12
(middle of the third post)

[AntiochusIII]

Darn, I thought this was going to be a surprise, but now we have to admit it: we're going to have Pyramid-building aliens wandering about in EB! ;)

Oh! So THAT's why they'll remove wonders. It's just plain stupid to let those puny buildings be called wonders while the real architects are still around ready to build these "wonders" everywhere on Earth, in a minute! ~;)

However, I warn you people, and this is dead serious. The professor who wrote this book is evil. He is on his way to create an evil cult that, when the next millenia comes, will say that the Earth at that time, and the universe as a whole, is 900 years old!

According to Amazon's 5 star reviews...

How sad, and you, Eadingas, will be discredited because people will think you - a wandering historian - is a liar to say something as ridiculous as there is a Roman Empire!!! ~D

[Valens]

that the Civil War was not about slavery

Well in truth the Civil War wasn't about slavery. But still, he's a quack.

[Reverend Joe]

He has created a theory, saying that god(s) were aliens, having come to earth 8000 or 7000 BC...

THIS is the kind of theory I take seroiusly. The gods are aliens thing is a little shaky, but I personally think that there is a strong possibility that Civilization is a lotolder than we think. I personally beieve that one day we will be able to prove that the first civilizations appeared in the last ice age, and that they ave been going through a cycle of buildup and destruction ever ince, the latest cycle having ended in the global dark age in the 400's. Perhaps the nly reason we have advanced farther is because Civiization survived in pockets, such as Consantine Rome and China... think about it.

I know, this sounds like a quack theory- but hey, it still sounds better than Jesus and El Cid being the same person.

[Reverend Joe]

Could someone please edit the spelling corrections in my post? This is what happens when I try to write when I'm excited.

[ShellShock]

I know, this sounds like a quack theory- but hey, it still sounds better than Jesus and El Cid being the same person.

What d'ya mean - they're not the same person!!!

[Valens]

I personally beieve that one day we will be able to prove that the first civilizations appeared in the last ice age, and that they ave been going through a cycle of buildup and destruction ever ince, the latest cycle having ended in the global dark age in the 400's.

I don't think it's a quack theory at all, even though there's no evidence to support it I believe it's entirely possible. Men are wretched creatures, we have a tendency to destroy ourselves for any number of reasons and there's no reason to think civilization didn't exist far before what we currently believe.

This theory has also been applied to the universe as a whole, alot of scientists believe that instead of just one big bang that created the universe out of nothing that there have been in fact an uncountable number of big bangs going back quite possibly to infinity, that there was no beginning it's always been there. From what we know of the universe, all the matter in it (galaxies, planets, stars) are all expanding outwardly away from the center due to the big bang. It's believed though that at the core of the universe there's some sort of supercondensed matter that everything kind of revolves around, and every few hundreds of billions of years the outward motion of the galaxies stops and everything goes right back in, condensing to the point where it all explodes again causing yet another big bang.

Heh, that was completely unrelated but still I think it's pretty cool :)

[Reverend Joe]

Shellshock- the Jesus- El Cid theory is actually in the book. That's part of what makes it so ridiculous.