Wwi:tw

[The_Ferret]

World War 1 total war mod is off to a good start and on discovery of this site, I thought it should also be here. I am team leader of the project and a coder for the units and buildings.

If any animators, moddelers, skinners, coders, or anyone who can edit ANYTHING in the game, visit the WWI:TW forums (http://s9.invisionfree.com/WWI_Total_War/index.php?act=idx) Enlist or just discuss the mod itself. We are currently getting a 'tommy' skinned and animated to carry a bayonet on a rifle. Trenches have already been sorted. As have aircraft and zeplins. However, we only have concepts currently, we need people to enlist so we can take these concepts further.

It can work and it has been proven. In fact, it will be very easy. We know it will be quite easy so please dont start flaming it here. Any volunteers are welcomed with open arms.

SO, MODDERS
THE MOD
NEEDS YOU

[Bwian]

No intention of flaming...but I do have a few questions about how you plan on implementing certain things.

Machine guns.... having tried to make archers fire more quickly, I don't see how you are going to do this. Are you planning them as siege type weapons, or variations on archers?

Firearms ( in general ) ... how do you plan on getting round the silly loopy shooting of arrows and the 'volley fire' thing that all the archer animations use? Volley fire would not be a feature of WW1 battles in the majority of cases. The speed of re-load and fire of a Lee Enfield .303 was such that organised volleys were not needed.

Planes ... How ? If you are using cavalry or elephant type units and just moving the models up high, how have you got around the effect they have on the ground troops they pass over or through ? Also...unit size. The smallest units are elephant, and they still end up with 6 as a start size. Use anything else and you have more planes in a unit than ought to be there.

Ship combat... I know it exists...but have you found a way to improve it, or have you just replaced the bireme/trireme with destroyer / cruiser etc. with new stats. Not that Naval combat actually did a great deal in terms of surface warfare. The German High-Seas fleet only put in a few indecisive major appearances. The bulk of the rest was U boats, blockades, and surface raiding by small groups or single ships such as the Emden.

Tanks I can understand. Give the British proper Mk IV's in male, female and hermaphrodite versions, and maybe add a Whippet too. Germans can have A7V's and the French can use FT17's, St Chamonds and Schneiders. Dominion troops may or may not get them.

Trenches...yep, easy enough. Same with the wire. Siege guns would be directed to cut wire before an attack, so by making barbed wire 'walls' that should work well. The MG nests and strongpoints would be 'towers'.

Have you considered gas shells ? Maybe a variant on the flaming missiles from the catapults.

Could be interesting if you can crack the technical problems of firearms :charge:

[The_Ferret]

I've asked GodsPetMonkey if he'll give us a bit of a hand as he has developed single shot muskets so with a bit of editing that'll be sorted. I suppose following the principle of a repeating ballista would be the best way around the machine guns. Wire walls and trenches are sorted and just need to be moddeled. Planes are spy type units, only they are visible on the campaign map, zeplins are assasins exept they only have the sabeutage option. The ships will just be fleets yes. Except we hope to alter move points to be more realistic. Bear in mind this mod will be played in days or half weeks. Machine bunkers are towers yes. And gas will be used as a variation on the fireball, but we'll have to alter the damage area. We more or less have it all sussed up to now. We are currently most interested in getting all the concept ideas done and get the firearm production out of the way.

Would you be interested in joining as a researcher/animator/moddeler/coder/skinner etc. Bwain?

Anyone who is visit the site. Bear in mind it is mostly still concept and we only have one working unit in the pipeline, that is a guy with a bayonet so not much progress yet. We need people to join if this is ever going to get beyond a concept. :help:

[The_Ferret]

Animators And Moddelers Needed Desperatly.

[Sundjata Keita]

Don't expect people to react instantly. There are a real shortage of modelers and skinners so you can't just presume you will get one in about 3 hours. (no bumping allowed)

Now I know this is flaming a bit but the entire concept is completely flawed. I have seen the thread at TWcenter and I know some people there have doubted it straight away, some of them with very little modding experience. However the concept of trench warfare even when they used old battle techniques (charging in etc.) does not fit the RTW engine at all. Haveing a few thousand men sitting in a trench for 5 hours while you watch them is not fun, there is not enough strategy involved in this kind of warfare.

Also the diplomatic issues are completely wrong for a WW1 conversion, it is a lot more complicated and you would need to be able to write complicated documents, play about with tradeing agreements, workers rights and manage the industrial revolution.

It is good of you to try to do a mod like this but walking in, having little or no experience with the RTW engine and saying your going to do the most ambitious project the community has ever seen and it is going to be really easy.

I don't want to stop you doing this at all as I like to encourage a wide variety of mods but you need to think a bit more before you post.

[The_Ferret]

I've been modding for a long time. I just never posted here before. Anyway. The whole point in the RTW is to simulate BATTLES. If you knew anything about WWI you'd know that battles weren't fought firing from side to side. And it wasnt just fought in trenches. Passendale ridge, both sides were out of a trench for the best part. You doubt it too much. We have ONE modeller and ONE skinner so I'm not realistically thinking that they are easy to get. But you've gotta try and grab whats there eh? We have the whole mechanics of things sorted. We know its possible we just need someone who wont mess it up. if you're interested anyone, above link. ~;) It will be really easy, and one member of our team is already set to post a sort of progress report. We almost have a soldier already. Honestly, it will be easier than anyone anticipated, even us.

[Reverend Joe]

Sunjata Keita- you may need some more experience with Great War era fighting. There were a LOT of battles fought partially or fully out of the trenches. The Russian front, for example, was only fought about half the time in trenches, and there was much more mobility. Only on the isolated French-Belgian front was there the almost-fully static trench battles people usually associate with the Great War, and even then there were constant, almost daily skirmishes between the two sides.

Also- a question for the modders: the Great War was one of the most bloddy, horrific wars in history... so how are you gonna show that? Or is it impossible?

[Sundjata Keita]

Actually I know quite a bit about WW1 trench warfare because a few years back as part of the British education system I had to do a project on it (I know its not anything to get me a degree but I'm not totally in the dark ~;) ). All along the western front generals would send there men across no mans land in one sweeping manouver to try and capture the opponents trech. If you knew anything about RTW you might realise this is not going top be an easy mod at all.

You say only half the battles on the Russian front were fought in trenches, probably less then that actually but it still means trench warfare. And lets not delude ourselves here, with the political stress and failure of Tsar Nicholas II in Russia during the time Russia was getting its butt kicked. Russia couldn't even beat Japan (who at the time were not a great power).

WW1 was all about politics and you won't be able to successfully simulate this in the camaign.

[shifty157]

WW1 was all about politics and you won't be able to successfully simulate this in the camaign.


Every war in history was all about politics. War is an extension of politics. Regardless politics in a game like this is impossible, unnecessary and unwanted. CA tried to throw politics into vanilla with the senate and the 3 factions but we see how well that worked. When was the last time you were more excited about your general getting a spot in the senate than your general gaining another command star? We want battles not politics. Maybe thats why they called it "total war" and not "total politics".

Anyway.

It seems you guys are off to a good start. I look forward to see how this mod progresses.

Good luck.

[Sundjata Keita]

True, politics are a part of every war. I'm just saying that the era around WW1 requires a more complex set of politics due to new national laws. How are you planning to include the USA?

[Bwian]

Of course the Great War wasn't entirely fought by soldiers sitting in trenches....

The trench system was a defensive fortification. The vast bulk of the war was also NOT spent in large set piece battles. Troops occupied trenches. Occaisionally, small scale raids were conducted, usually at night. Shellfire was swapped regularly, as were sniper bullets. Trenches were shelled....destroyed...repaired. And so it went on. Sometimes, if a perticularly useful shell-hole appeared, sappers would dig trenches out to it, to occupy it as a strongpoint. If you have ever seen some of the 'trench raiders' wepons...NASTY. Clubs wrapped in barbed-wire, axes, knives. Trench raids were a common tactic to get prisoners, information, and to strike fear in the enemy.

Then, every now and again, Field Marshal Haig would get the urge to re-site his drinks cabinet a few feet closer to Berlin, and a 'Big Push' would happen. Massive bombardments with millions of shells fired ( and about 2/3rds probably actually going bang... ) in abortive attempts to cut the wire. German WW1 wire was wicked stuff... ANd their dugouts were so deep the shells seldom damaged them. Then, over the top. A slow walk forward through bullets and counter-fire. If enough men were still alive when you got to the enemy trench, you might take it. If the reserves got up before the counter-attack, you might even hold it.

The big battles like Somme, Verdun, Ypres ( 1,2 and 3) were this sort of affair. There actually weren't that many 'big' battles. The death tolls in such offensives took a long time to recover from.

On the Russian front, though, the terrain was VERY different. IT was a lot more rugged, and far less suited to defending trenches. The terrain here ranged from mopuntainous regions through to swamps and marshland. Not places you could..or would...dig in!

Realistically...you would be foolish in the exteme to try and re-create this picture in it's entirety. Far better to take the START point of WW1, and use it's military advances to guide the development of the thing. You will have a lot of problems trying to follow either the economic or political background to WW1. Princip's assasination effort was both the catalyst and the excuse for war, in the light of a very complex political mess. The RTW AI is far too simplistic to do a good job of following the events.

The other area you are going to have BIG problems is with enemy battlefield AI. It has a rudimentary understanding of the basic weapon types. It thinks in terms of swords and spears, and will only really try to close into close quarters. If you attack it across no-mans land at the charge..it will counter charge. That would NEVER happen. There is also the archers tendancy to 'retreat' and keep firing. Again...in trench warfare, you would hold your ground and stay where the cover was best. I haven't seen any mods that really change the AI behaviour in these respects....

[The_Ferret]

You can change the AI people just cant be bothered. We will. Anyway, Total War games have the concept of letting you fight your own war. We aren't being tied down by what DID happen as it will be repetitive and boring. We'll start it as it started and you take it from there.

The USA will be a bit of a trade resource other than a faction, it will be non-playable.

Also, we wont get too bogged down in politics. We'll put in a few more modern options but thats it. It is after all, a WAR strategy game. Were going for as close to the war as possible but not too far from the TW concept.

[Triggerhappy Nun]

Planes are not necassary. They were novelties.

Thanks can easily be elephants. Cavalry can also be changed into armored cars, while the lighter ones can stay as cavalry. Machineguns can work as if they were seige units. Volley-fire owuld not be terribly inaccurate. And trenches can work like walls.

[The_Ferret]

We are re-moddeling forts to be trenches, with barbed wire as walls, and wire cutters using the principle of a ram, only with a different animation.

[Sundjata Keita]

wouldn't that mean mean they could only cut the wire at one place (the gate), maybee you could use the ladders instead?

[The_Ferret]

You've never used a ram on a wall? Well yes, as the settlement gets bigger it will have a wall of some variety, from there we may just let you shell it to hell.

[shifty157]

How many men will you have per standard group of infantry?

Also any thoughts on snipers?

[Sundjata Keita]

How will you create gas? How will you make units move at different speeds? How will you make units fire at completely different times? When are we going to see some screenshots?!?

[The_Ferret]

Gas, a quick alteration to fire (mustard gas)
Snipers, maybe for Germany
Different times, happens anyway
Differents speeds, we'll use horde formation
Men, not too many, but not too few
Perhaps a battalion or so (100 men) Remember, the battle filed will only focus on a small section of the front
Screenshots, one of our members will post our plans and the only unit we have so far, over the weekend.

[The_Ferret]

Just a quick request for any animator, experienced or inexperienced. We need animators. As soon as you apply at our forums (see link in sig) then we will have your first, hopfully simple assignment of getting us a bayonet animation.
Sorry if this is spam, but how else do you advertise without spamming someone elses thread? ~;)

[Sundjata Keita]

If people are interested in your mod they will hopefully find the link in the forums without you bumping it. If you are bumping it at least be a little bit subtle. ~;)

Just a few points. Even in horde formation the units still all run together. Units can't fire while on the run using the RTW engine so how are you going to represent this? Units can only fire in volleys even if with a random alteration to the time - I suggest having a look in the game mechanics forum. Good luck with the gas - I'm not a coder but it sound tricky

[The_Ferret]

It will be tricky, but our few (5 now ~D ) staff are determined to make this work. Sorry for the bump/spam but hey...

Anyway, any takers for the above advert? Moddelers, skinners, Animators (especially), Map Editors, coders any modder is welcome.

BTW- @Sundjata Keita- Your Zulu mod is going very nicely.

OH! and if you want to join, dont do what one person did and ask for payment ~;)

[Sundjata Keita]

I'll do it for money! ~;)

I am working on some firing animations for the Zulu mod so I might be able to help you there, no promises though. Have you got rapid fire weapons to work yet? We will need a rapid firing gatling gun for the Zulu mod, just wondering if it is possible

[The_Ferret]

since machine guns were more or less fixed and slow to move. We will base the MGs on the repeating ballista, we'll just reanimate and speed up the process. Guns are our biggest block, so if we can get an animation that looks like twising a bolt ten times, firing ten times, then reloading, then starting agin so it fires about 15 shots per minute, it would be great. But this will probably need to be sorted in the latter stages of development