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Lonely Soldier
04-04-2005, 08:53
The Concept

The human race is spreading across the face of the Earth. Clans and alegiances are forged and broken. The armies of Rome march across Europe. In the East, the Chinese states are restless, the forces of Japan grow stronger and the Indian lords consolidate their reigns. In the Americas the Incas and Maya develop their civilisations.

Will all of this remain?

Or will one mighty power rule the world?

Through more than two thousand years of history, you will guide some of the greatest civilisations the world has ever seen. From the Iron Age and into eras not yet come.

This is:
http://img146.echo.cx/img146/7/aombanner9fy.gif

Mod Team:

Texture Artist: richyg13

Modeller: kornsoadhts

Mapper: irish_own

Concept Artist: BishopSix

Researcher and Concept Artist Specialising in the Americas: CplTony

Researchers: GaugamelaTC, ianofsmeg16

Researcher, Director: Lonely Soldier

Positions Available

Supplementary Texture Artists - European faction unit and building skinner.

Modellers (2)

Anyone else who wishes to help - Please Apply ~:) !

Myrddraal
04-04-2005, 19:28
Covering the whole world? Will you make a huge map, or reduce the scale dramatically?

shifty157
04-04-2005, 21:33
wow. I think the word ambitious applies nicely to this. The whole world and the whole of recorded history. Wow. Good luck with this one. If you pull it off you will be amazing.

Lonely Soldier
04-04-2005, 22:22
Myddral - The world map will probably end up being an expanded version of the current map in RTW, but movement speeds in relation to the time taken up by turns will be more accurate - a Roman army could march 30 miles a day, so I think they'd be able to get from Tarentum to Rome in less than 6 months!

shifty157 - It'll probably be from about 50BCE to 2150CE - though whether or not the kind of warfare present in the twentieth century will be applicable remains to be seen. If not, the mod will probably end in about 1900 - or there abouts.

We will probably end up using alot of the work of other mod teams (if they'll let us ~:) ) - such as Napoleonic units from Napoleonic total war 2 etc.

GaugamelaTC
04-04-2005, 22:23
I like the idea. Will you still be doing custom battles.
If so how will you implement this? Will you just put all the units from all the ages under the faction they correspond? Or will you be making eras like MTW?

Lonely Soldier
04-04-2005, 22:26
GaugamelaTC - Eras are a definite possibility for custom and multiplayer - you couldn't really pitch a tank battallion against hoplites!

GaugamelaTC
04-04-2005, 22:52
That's definitely good,because in multiplayer battles people would obviously go for the most modern and powerful units,whereas in custom battles people might impose a certain amount of self-discipline.
I also have some questions regarding your plans for unique units and a unique look and feel to each faction. Games like Rise of nations let me down in that sense. They only had a few unique units(although admittedly they did have a degree of uniqueness to their buildings and unit skins)
SO for example if you were the greeks (which I'm assuming will be in here), will we be getting 4,5,6 unique units for each era?
Also any idea on factions, and eras.
sorry for the long post just really excited about a human history mod that will actually be good.

knoddy
04-05-2005, 01:35
i have one question a mod of this size u would expect there to be alot of factions right. did u know there is a hard coded faction limit of 21. how will u get past this???? i dont mean to deflate ur bubble or anything but u cant just leave peeps out. actually one idea i had was with ur suggestion of chinese city states at war. u could have one or two major chinese factions and have the rest set as rebels and make it so that the chinese have to fight rebels and only rebels to gain control of china before venturing out into the world. Other than that it sounds good VERY ambitious like shifty157 said. a total conversion mod takes alot of time and effort but good luck and cant wait for a look see at it =)

Lonely Soldier
04-05-2005, 07:15
GaugamelaTC - One of my main inspirations for this mod was the lack of decent effort which went into the cultures in RoN. Hopefully, by the end of the process, every culture will have their own almost entirely unique style and units - where applicable ~:) .

knoddy - I will be putting a draft faction list up in the next few days. I welcome help and comments from any interested people!

I will also be putting up draft lists of new features etc. which the mod will use.


THIS IS A CALL OUT TO ANY INTERESTED MODDERS!!!!!!

If anyone is prepared to help with this mod in the graphical aspects I would be much obliged to them!

MY ROLE:

I will be the main researcher on units, tactics, architecture and history and general director on the mod, as my skills in modelling etc. are far too basic for anything like this. I also have some ability in music editing, so hopefully I can contribute in this capacity as well!

I think this mod could turn out to be something truly incredible, as long as we get enough modders taking part!

Sundjata Keita
04-05-2005, 08:19
I think it is possible to condense the factions into about 20, RoN managed to do it (well before the expansions). It doesn't have to be ultra realistic, anything like RoN would be amazing to play with the total war engine. It would be great to send your ancient era troops against 5000 medieval era knights. I can't help but good luck with the mod.

GaugamelaTC
04-05-2005, 19:14
Well I'd like to help in anyway I can publicity and ill see if there are any free skinners about. Try twcenter.com thats a good place to get publicity. If you get one of those cool signature things for your mod down the line Ill put it on both my accounts.

Lonely Soldier
04-06-2005, 05:03
Sundjata Keita - You raise a good point regarding realism. I think the factions in the mod should be inclusive of as many civilisations as possible - e,g. having maybe two or three African tribes rather than the hundreds that really exist.

GaugamelaTC - Thanks so much for the offer!!! I will definitely take you up on it! ~:cheers:


I now have a thread at the Strategic Command Center: http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8104

and at the TWC: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?act=Post&CODE=08&f=58&t=27054&p=1812043374&st=

Though this thread will remain the central one for the mod!

Lonely Soldier
04-06-2005, 05:03
Factions and Symbols

Here is the second draft - I have altered the European factions thanks to advice from GaugamelaTC:

The Roman Empire (may include Egypt - and their units in the appropriate provinces - depending on starting date) - Red

The Hellenistic States - Pale Blue

The Chinese Kingdoms - A single province faction representing the Emperor and his capital will act as a senate, there will be a second Chinese faction which will be analogous to a unified Rome.

The Isles of Japan - Dark Red
http://img243.echo.cx/img243/4287/japanese19my.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

The Mongols - Brown

The Indian Princedoms - Gold

The Polynesian Tribes - Green
http://img243.echo.cx/img243/7238/symbol16zr.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

The Mayans/Meso-Americans (Aztecs may feature as a sub-culture) - Turquoise

The Incas (Amazonian tribes will be included as rebels - Incas can train these unit types in the appropriate provinces) - Gold may be better for this faction than for India.
http://img228.echo.cx/img228/3606/incasymbol8cp.th.jpg (http://img228.echo.cx/my.php?image=incasymbol8cp.jpg)

http://img228.echo.cx/img228/4066/incasymbol21id.th.jpg (http://img228.echo.cx/my.php?image=incasymbol21id.jpg)

The North American Tribes - Iriquois, Crow and Apache

The South-East Asian States (name not final ~:) ) - Jungly Green

The Slavic States (Russia etc. Eastern Europe) - Grey

The Celtic and Germanic States (Western Europe) - Blue

The African Tribes (Zulu, Masai ~:confused: ) - undecided colour

The Persians - Purple (maybe)

Remember that this is only a draft list and that I welcome any feedback or ideas. Pretty much any culture that doesn't make this list will be featured, either within a faction or as rebels.

Also, some faction names will refer only to the geographical location and not to the culture/s. This mod does not aim to be totally realistic - having a single faction for all of western Europe (between ancient enemies) for example - but each faction will have the full cultural range of its component nations.

IMPORTANT NOTE - Unless otherwise stated these colours are only to be used for banners and border lines - they are not to be used for unit colours except if explicitely stated!

Remember that this is a work-in-progress: check back regularly for alterations!

GaugamelaTC
04-06-2005, 22:50
These are just suggestions so take them or leave them.
Perhaps you could replace Briton with a western european faction with benelux, france, britain and ireland, spain, germany and portugal. Then instead of northern europe you ould have a faction comprising of eastern europe, russia and scnadanavia. Will the australians be included with the polynesians? For your african tribes maybe you should include something for egypt or north africa. In south america, you could have a faction apart from the incas based on the people who live in the rainforest? Some ideas for north american tribes: Inuids, aztecs/mexico, carribean states?

thelordskinner
04-07-2005, 04:48
WOW ~:eek:

This sounds like a great mod Please Tell Me when it is released!! ~D


:duel:

Yours The lords skinner!

Lonely Soldier
04-07-2005, 06:35
GaugamelaTC - Most of your suggestions seem sensible - especially those reagarding Europe. In terms of the Americas and Africa, it all depends on the starting date - which is yet to be decided on. Many of the factions (Incas/Mayans for example) will incorporate the minority cultures. Yes - Australian unit types will be trainable for the Polynesian faction, but only in the Australian provinces.

thelordskinner - Just keep on checking on these forums! Does the word skinner in your name relate to graphical skinning?

Lonely Soldier
04-07-2005, 06:42
Technological Era Placeholder

In the mod various reforms or technological inventions will allow for a faction to gain access to the next "Era's" (or Age's) units and structures.

The following list is very rough (no dates etc.) and is, as are all other lists, open to improvement and suggestions:

Iron Age (IA)

Steel Age (SA)

Medieval Era (ME)

Gun Powder Age (GPA)

Renaissance (R)

Age of Reason (AR)

Industrial Age (NA)

Information Age (FA)

Space Age (PA)

And probably one or two more (depending on how ambitious we feel :charge: )

Certain factions will recieve technologies earlier than others (China getting gunpowder etc.) - the others will have to trade for them.

Check back here often for updates!

Lonely Soldier
04-07-2005, 06:44
Units Placeholder

This is a list of possible new units - please refer to the Eras post for abreviations:

The Roman Empire

Cataphractarii

Patrician Knights (MA)

The Hellenistic States

Phalanx Musketeers (GPA-): Musketeers who carry large shields and form a phalanx formation from behind which to load and fire.

Bomb Ballistas - Ballistas which hurl explosive canisters.

The Chinese Kingdoms

Crossbowmen (IA)
http://img214.echo.cx/img214/125/bjngxbowrcn2sa.th.jpg (http://img214.echo.cx/my.php?image=bjngxbowrcn2sa.jpg)

Repeating Crossbowmen (SA)
http://img214.echo.cx/img214/5939/repeatingcrossbowisometric16di.th.gif (http://img214.echo.cx/my.php?image=repeatingcrossbowisometric16di.gif)

more reference shots of this weapon are available by request.

Imperial Gaurdsmen (only available with a Monarchy - and in the Imperial Provinces - All Ages)

all purpose Shield reference
http://img214.echo.cx/img214/2991/terracotta20army2010001268tm9f.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Swordsmen - Upgrades available in each age - All Ages

Spearmen - Upgrades available in each age - All Ages
http://img214.echo.cx/img214/1135/spear18zl.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Archers - see Spearmen

...

The Isles of Japan

Ashigaru (all ages)

Yari Samurai (IA-)

Yumi Samurai (Longowmen) (MA-)

No-dachi (MA-)

Mounted Yari Samurai (IA-)

Mounted Yumi Samurai (MA-)

Katana Samurai (MA-)

Warrior Monks (requires Buddhism)

...

The Mongols

Peasants (all)

Archers (all)

Spearmen (all)

Steppe Cavalry (with spears/swords/bows) (all)

Mongols also have access to some Chinese influenced units after SA.

...

The Indian Princedoms

Elephants - various stages
(http://www.imageshack.us)
[IMG]http://img245.echo.cx/img245/9564/elephantarmour0yx.th.jpg (http://img245.echo.cx/my.php?image=elephantarmour0yx.jpg)

Sikh Swordsmen (elite unit) (requires a Sikh Temple)

Sikh Cavalry (elite unit) (requires a Sikh Temple)
http://img259.echo.cx/img259/3287/7b5zo.th.jpg (http://img259.echo.cx/my.php?image=7b5zo.jpg)

Archers (IA-)

Cavalry

Tibetan Cavalry (only available in Tibetan Provinces SA-)
http://img245.echo.cx/img245/6336/armourtibetanhorse4sf.th.jpg (http://img245.echo.cx/my.php?image=armourtibetanhorse4sf.jpg)

Tibetan Horse Archers (only available in Tibetan Provinces IA-)

Chariots (possible General's unit SA-)
http://img245.echo.cx/img245/5409/warancientindia20fq.th.jpg (http://img245.echo.cx/my.php?image=warancientindia20fq.jpg)

All-Purpose References
http://img214.echo.cx/img214/3994/armourindian26pr.th.jpg (http://img214.echo.cx/my.php?image=armourindian26pr.jpg)

This is a good weapons page: http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/indianarms.htm
...

The Polynesian Tribes

Mauri Warriors (IA-)

War Boomerang Throwers (only available in Australian provinces IA-)

Spear Throwers (IA-) - upgrades available at each age

Spearmen (IA-) - upgrades available at each age

Easter Islanders - only available in Pacific Island Provinces

Warriors

Spear Throwers
etc.

...

The Maya
(http://www.imageshack.us)

Spear Thrower reference
[img=http://img258.echo.cx/img258/6229/webpageimagefatlatl6ly.jpg] (http://www.imageshack.us)

Warriors:

Jaguar Warriors, Spearman, Captain
[IMG]http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5010/aztec20warriors2039mc.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztec20warriors2039mc.jpg)

Mexica Cuahchic, Warrior Priest, Alliance Warrior
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5338/aztec20warriors2051or.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztec20warriors2051or.jpg)

Bowmen (SA-)

Standard Weapons
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/1710/armas2cb.th.gif (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=armas2cb.gif)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/1681/aztec20weapons2fn.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztec20weapons2fn.jpg)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/7548/aztec20warrior20weapons2018rl.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztec20warrior20weapons2018rl.jpg)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/246/lanzas4tj.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=lanzas4tj.jpg)

Shields and Banners
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/2286/aztec20shield2012je.th.gif (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztec20shield2012je.gif)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/7898/aztec20shield2026du.th.gif (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztec20shield2026du.gif)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/273/pendant19di.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=pendant19di.jpg)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/1276/shield7dr.th.gif (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=shield7dr.gif)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5019/aztecs365kp.th.gif (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztecs365kp.gif)

Province Specific units - Tlaxcalans:

Tlaxcalan Captain (may use a simplified version as a standard unit type), Texcocoan Captain (ditto)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/1118/tlaxcalan20warriors2014fe.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=tlaxcalan20warriors2014fe.jpg)

Bowman, Soldier and Elite Warrior of Tlaxcala
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/4433/tlaxcalan20warriors2027ys.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=tlaxcalan20warriors2027ys.jpg)

Other
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5862/aztecbattle11kd.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztecbattle11kd.jpg)

The Inca

Warriors:
Chinchaysuyu Warrior, Quechua Slinger, Chimor Warrior
http://img250.echo.cx/img250/5797/inca20warriors2014dn.th.jpg (http://img250.echo.cx/my.php?image=inca20warriors2014dn.jpg)

Inca General (may be used as a captain), Chinchayasuyu General (more likely to be used as a Faction Leader), Inca Axe Warrior
http://img250.echo.cx/img250/5071/inca20warriors2029tn.th.jpg (http://img250.echo.cx/my.php?image=inca20warriors2029tn.jpg)

General's Armour
http://img250.echo.cx/img250/7647/000000036du.th.jpg (http://img250.echo.cx/my.php?image=000000036du.jpg)

Sun Warriors - requires temple to the Sun God

Amazonian Tribesmen - various - Only available in Amazonian Provinces
http://img250.echo.cx/img250/6519/indianspic44gz.th.jpg (http://img250.echo.cx/my.php?image=indianspic44gz.jpg)

The North American Tribes

Tomohawk warriors

Spearmen

Rock Throwers

Spear Throwers

Club Warriors

Archers
http://img246.echo.cx/img246/9946/indianarcher3oy.th.jpg (http://img246.echo.cx/my.php?image=indianarcher3oy.jpg)

Post-European Great Plains Cavalry
http://img246.echo.cx/img246/9352/indianhorseman2wq.th.jpg (http://img246.echo.cx/my.php?image=indianhorseman2wq.jpg)

Breastplate
http://img246.echo.cx/img246/256/indianbreastplate4005ch.th.jpg (http://img246.echo.cx/my.php?image=indianbreastplate4005ch.jpg)

various tribe specific warrior types...

The South-East Asian States

Elephants

Cambodian Warriors

Vietnamese Warriors
etc.

The Slavic States

Boyars

Sabre Warriors...

The Celtic and Germanic States

Longbowmen

Welsh Longbowmen

Knights

Billmen

Spearmen

Claymore Warriors

Woad Warriors etc.


The African Tribes

Zulu Warriors

Masai Warriors etc...

The Persians

Horse Archers

Murabatin Infantry

etc. etc. etc.

More to come...

Some unit types will be trainable for any faction - though only in particular provinces. For example: Spartan type units will be trainable in sparta for most factions etc.

Lonely Soldier
04-07-2005, 08:47
Features

The mod will have several new features created for it in order to accomidate new gameplay needs. Again, none of this is set in stone! The main concept of the mod is to see how various cultures would have developed theoretically, had they not been conquered etc. So, the mod will aim to be as realistic as possible, though not at the expense of gameplay, within its own, somewhat fantastical (though still based in reality), scope.

The list so far is:

- Technology trade system (new technologies can be traded for - or stolen by spies - from more advanced factions. For example: Gunpowder can be traded from the Chinese etc.)

- Governmental systems (when the conditions in a faction's settlements drop below a certain level, a different system of government can be put in place at the capital by constructing the desired system's required structure.)

- New trade systems: railways, air freight etc.

- Dynamic faction and settlement names: Londinium becoming London at the appropriate date etc. Slavic states becoming the Soviet Union - if they are Communist.

- Dynamic factions and settlements: The Celtic and Germanic states may split at some point. The Aztecs may appear in central America and their capital (Tenochtitlan) with them - this will probably prove to be impossible, so don't get your hopes up!

- Religious fervour system: similar to that in Medieval: TW, factions will be able to train representatives of their religion to try to spread it to other settlements.

- Dynamic Wonder system: New wonders can be built when the time is right. Also certain wonders may be automatically destroyed at certain dates - E,g. Pharos in the Middle Ages etc.

more to follow... Watch this space!

Myrddraal
04-07-2005, 11:42
How do you plan this?

- Technology trade system (new technologies can be traded for - or stolen by spies - from more advanced factions. For example: Gunpowder can be traded from the Chinese etc.)

Lonely Soldier
04-07-2005, 13:06
Myrddraal - Probably in the form of a diplomatic treaty - like trade rights, alliance etc.

GaugamelaTC
04-07-2005, 13:50
Can I have some historical clarification please, did the persians(or arabians) use gunpowder before those in europe?

Lonely Soldier
04-07-2005, 23:49
GaugamelaTC - Well the turks did use cannon to destroy the walls of Constantinople quite early on, around the14th century I believe, which is somewhat earlier than the Western Europeans used it.

On another matter, could someone tell me how to create one of those signiature banners and upload it? Thanks in advance!

Lonely Soldier
04-08-2005, 00:09
Government Systems and Religions Placeholder

This is the first draft list of potential government types, ideologies and principles - these are in no particular order:


Systems:

Monarchy - Monarch elect/birth right

Oligarchy/Aristocracy

Tyranny

Democracy

Theocracy

Dictatorship/Police State

Republic

Fascist State

Valeoist State - officials elected based on fitness and ability for the position.


Sub Systems

Caste system


Economic Models:

Capitalism

Communism


Principles:

Internationalism

Nationalism


Religions

Christianinty - may include several denominations

Islam - several variants

Buddhism - several variants

Hinduism

Taoism

Aetheism

Olympian Greco-Roman Religion

Ancient Egyptian Religion

Animism

Mesoamerican Religions

Shintoism

Incan Religion

Nordic Religions

Voodoo

Several African Religions

Judaism

Polynesian Religions


The religions and systems on this list can be accessed at certain points in the campaign and will grant certain bonuses (these will appear on this list shortly).

GaugamelaTC
04-08-2005, 12:16
Not sure how to upload it but if you take a screenshot of some skins in action when it gets going and then use paint or something else to put some writing over it (preferably the mod title) that seems to be what everybody else is doing.

GaugamelaTC
04-08-2005, 12:44
I think the faction list is pretty much perfect for me, I can see your point on the amazonian tribes, I researched and there wasn't much war etc. Can I ask how and why the celtic and germanic states would split?
Religion wise, perhaps you could start by giving native americans and probably the celts, germanics and slavs animism for their religion. (there probably are other factions that should start with it but I'm not sure).
Regarding religions will they stay only to the age that is relevant (eg egypt starts with the ancient gods but as time goes on converts to Islam.) Or can we choose not to have to convert, and take Osiris and Ra and the others to glory!!! For systems you could perhaps include the Caste System for India to start with.

Lonely Soldier
04-09-2005, 00:46
GaugamelaTC - Any faction can choose to convert or stay with their current religion as they choose - so yes, the Egyptian gods could still be worshipped in the 21st century! Different religions will grant different benifits and most will have their own bonus units. Animism will probably feature more in Africa and the Americas, after all the Celts and Slavs had their own deities etc. which doesn't really fit with animism.
What I meant by the celts and Germans splitting is that this would have to occur if you wanted World War I or II etc. This is by no means a certain feature, I think new and original civilisation development and gameplay is a higher priority than recreating actual history. Also the caste system is a good suggestion, and could probably be used for several cultures. What would happen is that a new faction would emerge (say Britain) and automatically take over the appropriate provinces (or something like that anyway).

I will soon be starting to add units to the Unit Post. These will be those that need to be added to the game rather than a comprehensive list at this stage.

Lonely Soldier
04-10-2005, 06:50
New Wonders

This includes a new type of wonder: Natural wonders

The Great Wall

The Grand Canyon

The Pillars of Hercules

The Great Barrier Reef

More to come...

Simetrical
04-10-2005, 07:13
Um . . . perhaps you should look into how much is possible with the engine? You can't implement new diplomatic options, for instance. And you can only include 255 models, with at most one skin per model per faction, and only one arms/armor layout per model. And you can't include all twenty factions unless you want to run into issues with Roman hardcoding—you're limited to seventeen, or nineteen if you don't mind three sharing FoW. And, well, the list goes on. You'll have to cut back your plans a little, at least.

-Simetrical

Lonely Soldier
04-10-2005, 08:59
simmetrical - Thanks for the heads up.

dimitrios the samian
04-10-2005, 15:39
Hi Lonely ,,,
Why don't you start by making one part of it ? ... keep it simple .
I reckon the Maya Mod would be awesome and not to difficult to pull off .
I have seen it mentioned once for MTW but nothing came of it .
I beleive many people would be more interested in this as opposed to a Total Age Mankind one you propose , as it borders on fantasy :charge: and would take tens of thousands of hours of work .
History around Central America is still fuzzy .. So a lot can be done without having to be 100% correct - ofcourse their isn't any cavalry and troop types are somewhat limited but variety can still be had and battles would still be exciting and colourfull .
The thought of a totally new world to conquer excites me !! and if the opportunity arises I would become involved - but Iam not a modder just a Total War player who someday would like to see Central America , South East Asia , and Mesopotamia be touched on.
~:cheers: to all

Lonely Soldier
04-11-2005, 06:48
dimitrios the samian - Maybe you're right... Though I would hope that the mod would not be seen as fantasy - I prefer the term theoretical history.



General Announcement

If there truly is no way to get around this model limit and all the other limitations of this "most mod friendly total war game ever" - perhaps the expansion will help with this, though considering CA's recent efforts, I doubt it - then it'll probably end up not being made. My main aim is to do something original, exciting and innovative. But now that I seem to have been thwarted in this aim I may need to conceed to a massively truncated version of the original concept or not doing the mod at all.

buujin
04-12-2005, 14:15
There is also no such thing as religion in rome, and afaik u cant make new cultures.

No offence, but its all fine and dandy having an imaginative idea, but have you actually researched much into what can and cant be done with the rtw engine?

Also are u skinner, and moddeller and scripter ? or do u expect other people with those skills to jump on your bandwaggon and do all the hard work.

The_Ferret
04-12-2005, 16:45
You said you'd like to use the work of other mods if they'd let you... We'll let you use our WWI:TW mod if and when it finishes For the Early 20th century. ~:cheers:

Simetrical
04-13-2005, 04:02
And, of course, RTR would let you use any of our work with permission and attribution. So would almost all the mods, come to that, at least after they release it themselves.

-Simetrical

Lonely Soldier
04-13-2005, 05:35
Simetrical and the Ferret - thanks!

buujin - I am not a skinner, modeller or scripter. That is why I posted on my role in the mod and on my limitations. What am I supposed to do if I have an idea - and some of the skills required -, but I don't have all the technical know-how? What would you do if you found yourself without talent or inclination in these areas? Would you slave away yourself and produce crap work? Or would you do as much as you could with what you had and ask interested and willing people to assist you? Also, why can you build temples etc. if there is no religion in Rome? This is all that I meant by my comments on religion. The fervour thing could just be an effect on loyalty.


I have thought about the model limit thing - even if we have 9 eras and 19 factions, each one will get 3/4 units per era, and that's without model double ups - which should give us a lot more to play with!

buujin
04-13-2005, 09:46
If i really wanted something to be created, i would teach my self how and what needs doing, and then start the project on my own.

Once people see a work in creation rather than just what u want them to do, im sure they would be more inclined to help out and become part of a team.

I doubt anyone would be willing to put the hundreds of hours required into working on this mod, while having you dictate what they should do and evenually claim responsibility for the finished product.

Whoever has these formentioned talants and actually puts in their time and effort should claim lot more credit and have a lot more power in the project than the person who's original plan it was.

Sorry to dishearten you, but almost anyone can come up with a good idea.

Besides all of this, i suspect 99 percent of the decent moddellers and skinners for rome out there are already engaged in other very time consuming projects, this is why so many people's " ideas for a great mod " never go any further than that, an idea.

My Advice: teach yourself to mod , and then start modding.

Lonely Soldier
04-14-2005, 06:37
Anyone and everyone who worked on the mod would be appropriately credited.

I would not want to be seen as dictating, so much as focussing the teams efforts (I know I'm putting a positive spin on this, but it is closest to what I would want to be).

"Whoever has these formentioned talants and actually puts in their time and effort should claim lot more credit and have a lot more power in the project than the person who's original plan it was."

What if the idea had never been had anyway? The modellers etc. wouldn't have even had any work to be credited for. I agree that they should have considerable weight in decision making, but they are not being forced to do any of this work. If they were being paid an unfair salary then I could see your point, but the work anyone does on a community project is purely voluntary. Have you actually read the whole thread? It seems that you are making judgements about my input without having any notion as to what it entails.

Also, if I were to teach myself to model/skin (which I have found myself to be inept at ~:) ), would I also have to fill the position of scripter etc. myself?

I also agree that people would be more interested if they saw something in the works. I also agree that most of the modellers and skinners are already on other projects - don't you think that new people might turn up?

I would rather that this thread not descend into a two-way conversation, so please PM me if you wish to continue this discussion.

General Announcement

I will soon begin work on the new campaign map - I have almost finished learning the basics - Thanks to Mr. Hide over at the TWC for his excellent program, though I am also teaching myself manual (.txt file) editing.

Lonely Soldier
04-16-2005, 02:17
The first section of the mod will probably be the Asian component, an Americas component will be released seperately after that.

The release of the mod will probably run along in this way until we find ways to get around some of the more fatal limitations of the engine, so we can release the entire world map version.

I will also be adding concept art and further units to the unit post, we will choose the best of these to feature in the mod.

GaugamelaTC
04-17-2005, 17:37
Will you still have units from all ages?

Lonely Soldier
04-18-2005, 11:38
GaugamelaTC - I should have specified: the mod will either be released in geographical sections (Americas, Asia etc.) with multiple eras, or as a whole world map version with maybe only 1 or 2 eras.

Lonely Soldier
04-20-2005, 09:59
I have added some concepts for the Incas to the Units post. (they turned out really huge ~:confused: ... is their a way to reduce the display size?

Ianofsmeg16
04-20-2005, 14:27
hi, are you going to include a map of north America? cos i have a great map of the positions of North American Tribes if you want it?


:duel: :charge: :charge: :duel:

Lonely Soldier
04-21-2005, 07:09
ian_of_smeg16 - Thanks! That would be most useful ~:) !

In terms of the size of the map, I will aim for a good balance between epic scale and performance - if having a huge map kills the performance on the average player's system then the benifits of a large map may be outweighed by the negatives.

The campaign map will probably also feature new texturing and features - different kinds of desert, jungle etc. if it turns out to be possible...

Regarding the UI: the ultimate result would be for every faction (or at least culture) to have their own unique UI suitable for their aesthetic style. But, as this was not present in the original game, it is probably impossible.

Ianofsmeg16
04-22-2005, 15:06
haus019[1]

This may or may not work cos i am shamefully a newbie :embarassed: , therefore had trouble figuring out how to insert the pic

richyg13
04-22-2005, 17:12
hey, your idea is promising in my opinion but your realy gonna need a team for this one. I'm making my own mod based just before the Vinilla RTW is set (fictional setting) where you start with very basic troops and can develop more hardy troops as your cities get bigger but everyone has the same troop base so everyone is equal. My mod lacks depth however and i dont expect it to provoke too much interest... your mod however is lending much more depth.



I have thought about the model limit thing - even if we have 9 eras and 19 factions, each one will get 3/4 units per era.


remember you can use the same model for several factions if not all except with different skins, its more the unit limit you should be concerned with (i think its 300) but again you can use the same unit for several similar factions.

Mongol, Chineese and Japanese Peasants can use the same unit definition for example giving you 2 extra units to play with.

I'm a fairly experienced texture artist (4 years just about off and on) so i could lend a hand if you want. You'll have to find some1 to supply me with models tho cus im a terrible moddler :P

GaugamelaTC
04-22-2005, 22:00
Wow that's great news richyg- that means there could be very different looking units. I was thinking for any possible boomerang warriors, which animation would you use lonely soldier. I think you might be able to use the slinger one, but make the boomerangs only move back and forth, as if they were aiming and warming up?

Lonely Soldier
04-23-2005, 00:21
ian_of_smeg16 - You have used the right code, but you need to have the image hosted on a web page - here is a good, free image hosting page:
http://www.imageshack.ws/ .

richyg13 - Great! I will definitely take you up on that offer once we have found a good modeller! You may be able to do something with those concepts I posted for the Incas (we just need to decide which pre-existing model would make a good template).
And thank you for reminding me of the multiple skins option! The 3 Chinese factions would all have similar units to one another (cutting down considerably on model use!) and, depending on which direction we go in terms of design, other factions may end up with quite similar units/unit types to one another.
Also, we will probably be able to use many of the models already present in the game as templates.

GaugamelaTC - I tend to agree, the slinger animations would probably be the closest, and therefore would require the fewest changes.

The new version of Mr.Hide's map editor is out! I will now start to make the new map!

I have also added some more reference shots: for the Chinese and Indians.

richyg13
04-23-2005, 15:36
I've started work on the Inca Slinger texture using the Barbarian Slinger model. Only trouble is i cant create the whole tunic idea with no trousers therefore they're gonna have to wear trousers for now.

http://img208.echo.cx/my.php?image=slinger3yz.jpg

I've done my best to get a good skin tone, i think it still needs to get darker. I have no idea what design to do for their shirt so if some1 wants to make a suggestion... I need to pull the hair over the ears to make them look more authetic so I'll try that soon.

Lonely Soldier
04-24-2005, 04:43
richyg13 - Looking good so far! Such quick work too!
Do the Carthaginian slingers wear trousers? I'm not sure that they really need a design for their shirts... It depends if we want to have the armies all coloured based on history or on the faction colours we assign them. I personally would lean towards having faction colours only appearing on borders and banners, and having the units coloured in a more individual manner. This would allow for more vibrant and interesting looking battles.

I'll start putting up some possible faction symbols soon. They will be in the Faction list post on page 1.

Lonely Soldier
04-24-2005, 06:10
Architectural Reference

This is a placeholder for architectural reference shots. There will be a seperate post for individual building designs later - this is just for general style.

The Roman Empire
Don't need changes immediately.

The Hellenistic States
Don't need changes immediately.

The Chinese Kingdoms
(http://www.imageshack.us)

The Isles of Japan
Similar to China.

The Mongols
Lots of yurts ~:)
[IMG]http://img216.echo.cx/img216/1028/yurts0kv.th.jpg (http://img216.echo.cx/my.php?image=yurts0kv.jpg)

The Indian Princedoms
http://img160.echo.cx/img160/5848/city5fn.th.jpg (http://img160.echo.cx/my.php?image=city5fn.jpg)

The Polynesian Tribes
Lots of carved wood...


The Maya
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/950/19ta.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=19ta.jpg)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/1470/cwarrior0bk.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=cwarrior0bk.jpg)
http://img216.echo.cx/img216/2835/teotihuacanarchitecture0zs.th.jpg (http://img216.echo.cx/my.php?image=teotihuacanarchitecture0zs.jpg)

Palace
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5342/palace10ev.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=palace10ev.jpg)

http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5203/mexi19yn.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=mexi19yn.jpg)


The Inca
http://img216.echo.cx/img216/9448/incaarchitectureterraces4vd.th.jpg (http://img216.echo.cx/my.php?image=incaarchitectureterraces4vd.jpg)
Baths
http://img216.echo.cx/img216/6849/incabaths11fx.th.jpg (http://img216.echo.cx/my.php?image=incabaths11fx.jpg)

http://img216.echo.cx/img216/8134/macchupicchu15cj.th.jpg (http://img216.echo.cx/my.php?image=macchupicchu15cj.jpg)

The North American Tribes

The South-East Asian States
Indian and Chinese influences...

The Slavic States
Islamic and European influences...
http://img216.echo.cx/img216/3074/russarcannun1sk.th.jpg (http://img216.echo.cx/my.php?image=russarcannun1sk.jpg)
[img=http://img216.echo.cx/img216/7831/russia26cj.jpg] (http://www.imageshack.us)

Church
[img=http://img216.echo.cx/img216/1660/russianchurch6wp.jpg] (http://www.imageshack.us)

The Celtic and Germanic States

The African Tribes

The Persians

GaugamelaTC
04-24-2005, 09:47
I love all the concept art Lonely and co.! This is gonna be a great mod! Btw Richyg hope you find a way to get rid of the trousers, because those slingers look great! I have a question regarding the North and South American peoples:
How will you balance their units pre columbos period without any cavalry?

richyg13
04-24-2005, 18:28
Using Eqyptian Slinger Model :D

http://img112.echo.cx/my.php?image=slinger7ol.jpg

I can start on shading the tunic etc. when i know how you want the tunic to look.

richyg13
04-24-2005, 21:01
Preview of Inca Spearmen
[img=http://img220.echo.cx/img220/4138/spearmen5ev.th.jpg] (http://img220.echo.cx/my.php?image=spearmen5ev.jpg)

Lonely Soldier
04-24-2005, 23:55
GaugamelaTC - Thanks ~:) ! I believe the North Americans had horses all along, or at least the tribes of the Great Plains had them (correct me if I'm wrong!). for the South Americans: I'm not really sure... they will probably just end up having more powerful strike troops or something. You do raise a good point though, this is something to be considered more fully.

richyg13 - Those new slingers are much better! And the Spearmen preview looks excellent too! I assume that the tunic will be altered later. I'll see if there is a model without a shield - though I don't think there is... Once we get a modeller we will make the shield more like the ones in the pictures or remove it, but your work more than suffices! I see that you've altered the hair, its looking great!
I think the tunics are basically fine as they are - after all they are only lowly slingers.

shifty157
04-25-2005, 01:00
I believe the North Americans had horses all along, or at least the tribes of the Great Plains had them (correct me if I'm wrong!).

Nope. Horses only arrived in the Americas with the europeans. As well as the wheel.

Lonely Soldier
04-25-2005, 01:43
shifty157 - Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification. But the Aztecs did have the wheel before the Europeans arrived - they never adapted it for practical use though - it featured on several toys found at Aztec sites.

General Announcement

At this stage I think it would be better to set the mod between the 400s CE and the Renaissance - this would allow for a great deal of variety while providing fewer potential issues - rather than from 20BCE to the present. This is not to say that later, and earlier, eras will not be covered eventually, they will simply be later additions to the project. Within this time frame there is still room for dramatic progressions in technology for all factions, and the current faction list would still be applicable ~:) . This decision is by no means final! Please make any comments or queries you wish. The opinions of the community are all important to a mod, and we will be happy to take on new ideas and people.

Lonely Soldier
04-25-2005, 03:38
Music

This is a placeholder for ideas for music. This should be one of the most fun things to mod! Early on the factions will probably be grouped into general cultural styles for music, but eventualy each faction will have its own complete score. You may notice some anachronisms in the music, my view is that we should use the most iconic and exciting music available for that culture - history be damned!

The Roman Empire
No immediate changes required. Maybe some Carmina Burana. More Latin anyway!

The Hellenistic States
No immediate changes required. Shut that bloody bazooki up!

The Chinese Kingdoms
We need to decide whether they have semi-westernised music (Crouching tiger, Hidden Dragon/Hero) or whether we go pure traditional, or for a mix.

The Isles of Japan
From Shogun: TW. Roll out those battle drums!

The Mongols
From Mongol Invasion - Mmmm throat singing...

The Indian Princedoms
Who doesn't love Indian music?

The Polynesian Tribes
Steel drums? Maori Haka?

The Mayans
hmmmm... If only they hadn't been wiped out :help: .

The Incas
Aha, an excuse to load up a Total War game with some of that awesome South American folk music!

The North American Tribes
There should be some good stuff available here!

The South-East Asian States
An interesting musical region!

The Slavic States
Sabre Dance battle yay, Moussorgsky w00t!

The Celtic and Germanic States
Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Holst, and many more!

The African Tribes
Lots of drums.

The Persians
Maybe some from Medieval TW.

I will also investigate the possibility of date dependant music - having the right music for the right era. Probably another hard-coded aspect, though this one is not too hard to take ~:) .

richyg13
04-25-2005, 14:18
Spearmen with NO SHIELDS!! :D Whos the daddy??!!

http://img251.echo.cx/my.php?image=spearmen8da.jpg

I used the alpha channel to remove it... if you havnt noticed, the arm looks like its bulging out at the top... i can either remove this using alpha channels or i can add in a sleeve. I leave you to decide.

richyg13
04-25-2005, 16:27
Inca Spearmen v1.0
http://img104.echo.cx/img104/4629/spearmenv10card0im.th.jpg (http://img104.echo.cx/my.php?image=spearmenv10card0im.jpg)

New Tunic, No Shield, Corect Unit Stats, Unit Card, Unit Info Card, Correct Descriptions.

Inca Slingers v1.0
http://img104.echo.cx/img104/3695/slingerv10card4up.th.jpg (http://img104.echo.cx/my.php?image=slingerv10card4up.jpg)

New Tunic, Belt around waist for ammo bag, Correct Unit Stats, Unit Card, Correct Descriptions

Lonely - I can compile these versions together if you want to add them to the running mod.

GaugamelaTC
04-25-2005, 17:36
Lonely Soldier I think you should go from the Roman Republic days to the renaissance and if you have the chance, till the Napoleonic era. 400BCE I believe is still in the dark ages (I'm not sure on BCE and CE), so you won't have the variety of the units while the romans were at their height.

richyg13
04-26-2005, 13:30
I'm lost as what to do next...

I'm working on finding existing models to make Amazonian Archers and Warriors(which would essentially be used as rebels but recruitable in amazonian provinces) but finding it hard to find a good model at the moment. I could start doing either North American Units (could essentially lead to creating an Americas Demo) or making a Persian Army from the exisiting Persians in the game.

If you want to talk to me directly add me to MSN richard_garlick_2004@hotmail.com

@GaugamelaTC:
Why dont you join the team as an additional researcher?? we could do with some additional research material.

@Lonely Soldier:
We desperatly need that moddler or we need to ask other mods to have permission to use some of their models. The Moddler would be beneficial cus we can create the things we realy need, like i need a model for the Inca General. I was going to have a go at it myself but the CAS importer/exporter isnt compatible with my version of 3D Studio Max.

Should we apply to have our boards hosted here?? would probably attract more interest and we do abide the rules to have shown a start (we have 2 essentially finished units).

richyg13
04-26-2005, 14:44
Amazonian Archers (wearing leather armour)
http://img165.echo.cx/img165/4728/amazonarchers3oo.th.jpg (http://img165.echo.cx/my.php?image=amazonarchers3oo.jpg)

this is only a quick version i could come up with, again realy needs a new model.

GaugamelaTC
04-26-2005, 18:10
Ok well I'll have a go! I might be getting less free time with my exams and my new mod (looking for support but I'll use some spare time to help! Any requests for what you want me to research?

richyg13
04-26-2005, 19:08
ah! exams! I hated them :P
Whats your mod about butt?? I'll see if i can help... im officially a bum at the mo :P so i have crap loads of free time until a job comes up.

GaugamelaTC
04-26-2005, 19:15
Well its the animal:total war one. The mod focuses on having animals play a much larger role. Its right by this thread lol. check it out if you want.

richyg13
04-26-2005, 21:41
Right i got something for you to research... see if you can find us some material for north america specifically for the early ages. The current unit listings are quite poor so we need more resources here. Any documentation on their style of fighting or combat tactics will also be appreciated... plus, what was the final verdict on the use of cavalry pre-columbus??

Lonely Soldier
04-27-2005, 05:51
richyg13 - Those Inca units are sweet! I would remove the bulge in the arms - unless they are body builders its a little creepy ~D . Sorry about the unit lists - they are pretty crappy at the moment... I too have had muchos school work recently and haven't had much time to research etc.

Spearmen without shields!!!! I really appreciate the work you're doing! And yes I think we should apply for hosting here, I hope they accept us! It would be really useful to have extra threads available for all of the different components of the mod - Its going to get really complex really fast. I'll act on that suggestion shortly. Also I'll have a look round for a modeller but it will probably be quite hard to find one.

I've put up about 15-20 pictures for the Mayans (actually pictures of Aztecs - but they are very similar - almost identiacl weapons and warrior types), and some new unit ideas - though no pictures yet. I also put up some more Indian reference shots and a link to a good general reference page.

Regarding the finished units (good cards btw ~:) ): could you post their descriptions and stats? If we are hosted we will have a section in each faction's thread for units and descriptions which I would edit periodically based on the feedback of the team and the community.

GaugamelaTC - Thanks! Your help will be invaluable!
BC = BCE (Before Common Era). AD = CE (Common Era). I'm not sure about starting so early... It depends how much work we want to do. Going from Republican Rome to the Napoleonic Wars (nearly 2100 years!) would be a huge amount of work for the team at its current size.

General Announcement
Depending on feedback we may end up changing the Maya faction to a Meso-america faction - with Aztecs etc.

richyg13
04-27-2005, 12:27
Inca Spearmen

Armed with only a spear, these brave warriors are amass and show no fear. However, they wear no armour and are therefore quite vunerable to enemy missiles.

Unit Size: 60
Attack: 5 (Spear - gives bonus vs cavalry)
Charge Bonus: 2
Defence: 4 (vunerable to missiles)
- Armour: 0
- Defensive Skill: 4
- Shield: 0
Morale: 4, Normal, Untrained
Ground Types: Strong in Forest, Weak in Desert and Snow
Attributes: Hide in Forest, Hardy (Good Stamina), Canterbarian Circle (removes war cry)
SP Cost: 200
MP Cost: 200


Inca Slingers
Armed with a sling and a small shield, these warriors wear down the enemy pelting them with stones from afar. Their only defense is their small shield used to defend them from enemy missiles while skirmishing. Slingers are trained only in these arts and are not accustomed to close combat, they carry a knife only for self-defense.

Unit Size: 20
Attack: 4 (Ranged) / 1 (Melee)
Charge Bonus: 1
Defence: 3 (vunerable to missiles)
- Armour: 0
- Defensive Skill: 1
- Shield: 2
Morale: 2, Low, Untrained
Ground Types: Strong in Forest, Weak in Desert and Snow
Attributes: Hide in Forest Improved
SP Cost: 100
MP Cost: 100


Upkeep costs have to balanced, I havnt done anything with the SP elements yet as we have no basis on which they can be tested with the lack of the new world, any progress on that??

I've started a little work on the persian army, just got to do some major colour alteration, probably make their main colour light blue and secondary white.

I think i know of a model to make Tomahawk Warriors with for the North Americans and I can make Zulu Warriors with something i found accidentally.
I cant progress any more with the Incas as it stands. I've made my own unit reference chart in a spreadsheet so i can what we have done and what needs doing, it also displays the ages in which each unit is used to i can see if we have a good balance. I'll add you new unit suggestions to the table.

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

GaugamelaTC
04-27-2005, 18:39
Apparently On the plains of the United States, they have found axes made of stone, and some evidence that stones were used in combat (throwing, carved into weapons) Bow and Arrows were used, with three decorative feathers traditionally, they replaced the throwing spear before them

Large wooden clubs have also been found to have been used in combat. From what i read most American tribes used just the club, and not anything sharp attatched on to it. It seems there weren't horses there at the time.

There was also something called a rabbit stick, whcih looks a lot like a boomerang, I looked it up and I couldn't find much information on it.

The spear was the main hand to hand weapon. Some NAtive Americans had decorative shields and such. Most spears were short on the plains used for slashing and stabbing.

Summary:
Stones perhaps being thrown (didn't find much on slings there)
Bow and arrow should evolve from throwing spear
Rabbit stick I will look more into
Wooden clubs used

Remember this is only for tribes and clans on the plains, I will look up canada and the coasts soon.

richyg13
04-27-2005, 20:48
first off, thats some good research, gives us a good unit selection for the first 3 ages (IA to MA) need some pictures so i can get them accurate.

Converting what you've found we can make stone throwers and spear throwers (stone thrower can use spear thrower animation), these can be available in the IA to SA, Bows can then replace them completly by the MA (can also be available in SA). Clubs will require a new model i think, cant realy convert any existing model into one. You'll have to find out more on the rabbit stick cus ive never heard of it, could be interesting for a special unit.

In summary we can have:

Spearmen (IA to GPA) - Shields?? you mentioned decorated shield so i guess so
Stone Throwers (IA to SA)
Spear Throwers (IA to MA)
Bowmen (SA? to MA)
Wariors (Clubs) (IA to MA) - 1 hand with shield or 2 handed?? we could have both?? would have to be used as general's bodyguard too.

=============================

Also, i have started some work on the Mayans thanks to Lonely's new images, im using a common colour scheme for them of yellow and green but this is only used on borders of their tunics etc. I'll post pics of the spearmen once ive got all the LODs working, currently the new shield looks wrong from a distance.

richyg13
04-27-2005, 23:27
Mayan Spearmen Preview
http://img6.echo.cx/img6/7571/spearmen3bz.th.jpg (http://img6.echo.cx/my.php?image=spearmen3bz.jpg)

Still working on this along with the other Mayans... Some of them I cant do without new models so I'm doing what i can for now. For Clarification, I'm replacing Britons with Incas and Gauls with Mayans. I'll replace Dacia with the North Americans when it comes to it.

So you know... we have 78 units currently named

if you have MSN please add me richard_garlick_2004@hotmail.com

Lonely Soldier
04-28-2005, 06:46
GaugamelaTC - That's some very useful stuff you've found there!

richyg13 - Cool signiature banner! Once we've got a super advanced looking concept (Sci-fi sort of thing) it would be cool to have them facing off on the banner! That stuff for the Inca Slingers is good too ~:) . I think we might be able to use the Egyptian Peasent model as the base for our standard Mayan Warrior (in the picture with all the weapons around him). This model could also be our Peasant model for the Africans, Indians, Polynesians and South-East Asians.
In regards to the Persians (and all the faction colours) I will soon be posting in the Faction lists. As always, feel free to comment.
The shields on the Mayans look good so far too. I'm not sure yet about which way to head with the colours... I'll post about them shortly. When I have a little more time on my hands I will also re-format the Units post in Age order, I've done a bit on this already - I'll just polish it a bit more.

I'm having some difficulties in making a large enough map (I'm still learning though) - I would appreciate feedback on what you guys think: scaled down (would help performance) or full size (much more detailed and interesting, but a big drain for all but the fastest systems).

Another thing we should remember about the skinning and modelling is that some of these units will not make the final release - not because of lack of quality, but because of limits imposed on us by the game engine. We will eventually have to consider the units of all the different ages and which ones are best to keep once we have a lot of them done. Of course most of the units produced will be used - no one wants to waste people's time here - but we should be aware that some may eventually not make it into the release.

You can reach me at sabishiisamurai@hotmail.com

richyg13
04-28-2005, 11:55
Yeh i was gonna do that for the banner, i did something like you describe for a game i was gonna completly code from scratch but i didnt have the resources to do it at the time.

I've tried doing a new map but i think im jumping in too far ahead of myself and i should learn a few things before i go so far. What i was gonna do is make a map for the americas. Using the same world size currently available in the the game and scale it accordingly so that we could release an americas demo (obviously the game would be limited to pre-columbus cus this will never "happen", although the event could be non-predetermined) in which the Incas, Mayans and North-Americans can feature.

I can work on the Mayan warrior today and I can probably get a Mayan Spear Thrower done perhaps cus im going out at 4:30

richyg13
04-28-2005, 13:47
Mayan Spear Throwers Preview
http://img202.echo.cx/img202/8307/spearthrowers5hl.th.jpg (http://img202.echo.cx/my.php?image=spearthrowers5hl.jpg)

The egyption peasant wont do it for the Mayan Warrior, in fact i cant find any light swordsmen models that are applicable (only barbarian ones). Therefore thats another model we need. The need for the moddler is becoming greater, if you cant find one by next week I will try and get a .CAS importer/exporter for my version of 3DSMax from somewhere and see what i can do... that or nag my bro who can model quite well.

Ianofsmeg16
04-28-2005, 16:57
god i hope this works otherwise i may look like a fool
north American tribes map

:charge: :duel: :duel: :charge:

Ianofsmeg16
04-28-2005, 17:00
http://img175.echo.cx/img175/6540/haus01913ei.th.jpg (http://img175.echo.cx/my.php?image=haus01913ei.jpg)

ah ha!! by george i think i have it!
~:cool:

GaugamelaTC
04-28-2005, 18:30
From what i gathered the club could be used for both 1 handed and two handed, if you wanna use them as heavy infantry, give them 1 handed clubs, other wise they'll be easily beaten.
I couldn't find any images at all, are there any sites you reccomend?

Lonely Soldier
04-28-2005, 23:46
ian_of_smeg16 - Thanks for the map!

richyg13 - I will have a look round for the modeller - the Mayans definitely need new models! I assume that those colours are temporary - they are a little bit fluorescent at the moment ~:) . If I can work out how I will post a poll about the unit colourings etc. Thanks for starting out on the map - I'm not sure if the current map proportions are suitable though...
I think we could base one of the North American factions on Dacia - use of horse-archers (post-European contact), trousers etc.

GaugamelaTC - We could do with some heavy (powerful assault) infantry for the North Americans, so I think using the club in two hands (like a falxman) would be suitable. A one-handed club warrior would need to have a shield to be heavy infantry I think.

richyg13
04-28-2005, 23:47
@GaugamelaTC:
yeh one handed with a shield then seems best then cus we need a heavy infantry unit. Lonely seems to be scanning images from a book i think, so i dunno if he can get us anything... check round the net is the best bet. search engines etc.

@Ian
Thats a good map, thanks! :D
Gonna help for locating each type of unit to each province we create. ~:cheers:

richyg13
04-28-2005, 23:56
I think we could base one of the North American factions on Dacia - use of horse-archers (post-European contact), trousers etc.


our current focus is unfortuantly pre-european contact i think cus we want a good unit balance to show off for all the americas factions

Yeh ive made them yellow for now based on the resource images... can easilly be changed to whatever u want.

richyg13
04-29-2005, 00:11
Got some awesome news!
I've managed to get the CAS import/export to work for my 3dsmax :D

so im gonna have a go at some modeling :D

any requests on what to try modelling??

GaugamelaTC
04-29-2005, 21:53
Wow good luck! Here is some research I got on the indegenous peoples of Canada. Again stone was extremely important and all the weapons found from the tribe called the Tornit all were made of stone and were mostly knives. However there have been harpoons found so perhaps either thrown or used in battle, it's up to you. Large stone blades were also used by tribes further north. Ivory may also have been used(from elephant seals or something) but not as much in battle, more in domestic situations.
Summary:Inuid Harpoon men for definite
Stone blades and knives
possible ivory weapons

http://img242.echo.cx/img242/2912/tools9kw.jpg

That's the link to the image

Lonely Soldier
04-29-2005, 23:53
GaugamelaTC - To upload:
1. Go to an image hosting site like http://www.imageshack.ws/ .
2. Follow the prompts, and then copy and paste one of the Thumbnail/Hotlink for Forums addresses into your post.

I think we should keep all of the unit concepts in one place though - so once you upload them I will put them in the unit post ~:) .

richyg13 - That's great news about the modelling - I will keep looking for a modeller though. You could try the Mayan Warrior Priest (with the black and white spotted costume) or just to do the obsidian edged clubs. By the way, the colours you have selected are fine for prototypes ~:) . Until we have banners etc. (I might start working on those shortly...) having colour coding on units is probably the easiest way to keep track of the factions.

I think you are right about focussing on pre-European America. If we can get a good range of units without resorting to cavalry we will have much more to play around with for the later eras.

I've put up a few basic pictures for the North Americans.

Also (I'm not sure if this is possible), but we may need to do some extra terrain types - particularly jungle, tundra etc. As well as this we would obviously need new trees etc. Without this stuff the South Americans would have to settle for dense forest.

Lonely Soldier
04-30-2005, 09:07
Provinces, Settlements and Maps
These maps show the basic territories of the factions. A date will be provided when available:

The Roman Empire

400CE
http://img256.echo.cx/img256/2268/romanemp400ad54de.th.jpg (http://img256.echo.cx/my.php?image=romanemp400ad54de.jpg)
(Teal areas may end up as Greek, except Egypt...)

Fall of the Roman Empire
http://img256.echo.cx/img256/4481/barvarianinvasions60ny.th.jpg (http://img256.echo.cx/my.php?image=barvarianinvasions60ny.jpg)
(Anglo-Saxons = Celtic and Germanic States)

The Hellenistic States
Athens, Constantinople/Byzantium, Sparta, Corinth etc.

The Chinese Kingdoms (Chin Dynasty and the Emperor)
Please note that this arrangement for China is not chronologically correct, and hence not ideal - but it seems to be the best way to manage the region for gameplay:

Territories and Cities
http://img222.echo.cx/img222/8638/mapofancientchinabestone4wu.th.jpg (http://img222.echo.cx/my.php?image=mapofancientchinabestone4wu.jpg)

https://img311.imageshack.us/img311/4415/chinmap11gb.th.gif (https://img311.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chinmap11gb.gif) (China c.400CE, territories of the Chin Dynasty)

http://img49.echo.cx/img49/4295/dynastyshuweiwu9cp.th.jpg (http://img49.echo.cx/my.php?image=dynastyshuweiwu9cp.jpg)

Modern Regions/Prefectures
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/1829/china883hk.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=china883hk.jpg)

The Isles of Japan
Edo, Hiroshima, Kyoto, Niigata etc. Sado Island is a must include!

Rough Territories of the Yamato in 400CE
http://img49.echo.cx/img49/2894/roughyamatoterritoriesyamatore.th.gif (http://img49.echo.cx/my.php?image=roughyamatoterritoriesyamatore.gif)
Yamato = Red, Rebels = Blue

The Mongols

The Indian Princedoms (Gupta Empire)
https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3071/guptaempire400ad3wj.th.gif (https://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=guptaempire400ad3wj.gif) (India c.400CE, under the control of the Gupta Empire)

The Polynesian Tribes

The Mayans -or- Meso-Americans (Aztecs may feature as a sub-culture)
Tenochtitlan

https://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8077/centralamericaref012hk.th.jpg (https://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=centralamericaref012hk.jpg) (Meso-America height/roughness reference)

https://img237.imageshack.us/img237/236/americanempiresaztecc1500ce7vk.th.jpg (https://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=americanempiresaztecc1500ce7vk.jpg) (American Empires (Aztecs c.1500CE, if the territories shown for the Aztec Empire are taken by the Meso-American Alliance then Aztec units will be recruitable and Aztec structures buildable in these provinces after the appropriate date)

http://img222.echo.cx/img222/2020/mayanmap28tm.th.gif (http://img222.echo.cx/my.php?image=mayanmap28tm.gif)

The Incas (Amazonian tribes Included)
Machu Picchu

Inca Empire 1
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/7047/incaexpansion13vv.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=incaexpansion13vv.jpg)

South American Outline Map
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/1853/southamericaoutlinemap4cl.th.gif (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=southamericaoutlinemap4cl.gif)

The North American Tribes (Iriquois, Crow and Apache - maybe)
Outline Map 1
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/9936/northamericaoutlinemap4hr.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=northamericaoutlinemap4hr.jpg)

The South-East Asian States (The Champa Empire)
Angkor Wat etc.
https://img311.imageshack.us/img311/7198/vietnamchampa9vi.th.jpg (https://img311.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vietnamchampa9vi.jpg) (Territories of the Champa Kingdom c.400CE)

The Slavic States (Russia etc. Eastern Europe)
Moscow etc.

The Celtic and Germanic States (Western Europe)
London, Paris, Berlin etc.

The African Tribes
Great Zimbabwe

Modern Regions 1
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/5321/afrmap0ja.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=afrmap0ja.jpg)

Climate 1
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/6214/afnewlnd8ai.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=afnewlnd8ai.jpg)

The Persians (The Sassanid Empire)
Baghdad etc.
https://img311.imageshack.us/img311/4709/mapsassanidempire7sb.th.jpg (https://img311.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapsassanidempire7sb.jpg)

General Maps

Climate/Terrain Type Map 1
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/1/earthphoto14jr.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=earthphoto14jr.jpg)

Modern Political 1
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/4779/geopolitical14ke.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=geopolitical14ke.jpg)

Moden Political 2
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/6183/politicalreference16jw.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=politicalreference16jw.jpg)

Asia Modern Political Outline 1
http://img142.echo.cx/img142/1469/mapsofindiaasiaoutline9yg.th.jpg (http://img142.echo.cx/my.php?image=mapsofindiaasiaoutline9yg.jpg)

richyg13
04-30-2005, 18:21
Still working on new models, trying to learn how to do it properly.

I'm gonna start the new map. Americas only, ive been trying to work out province distribution thinking ahead to when we're gonna have the whole world. Primarilly i think the best way to divide them is by countries in the modern world. South America divided into - Brazil, Peru, Chile etc. North America would have to be divided into groups of modern states/areas of American Indian control as it were, about 5/6 provinces perhaps?? keeping in mind that the max is 200.

RedCoat
04-30-2005, 18:58
It's worth mentioning, I thinkl, that the Hungarians aren't Slavs and it's actually quite offensive to refer to them as Slavs.

richyg13
04-30-2005, 19:15
Hungary along with other nations will start as independent nations (aka. rebels)

Lonely Soldier
05-01-2005, 03:36
RedCoat - When did we make mention of Hungarians? Of course we do not wish to offend anyone or any ethnic group. Hungarian units would probably be available to the Slavs (or Eastern Europeans if you prefer) without being classified as Slavic. If the term Slav is deemed by anyone to be racially offensive I apologise and it will be removed from the mod. There is no garrauntee that Hungarian land will not make up a part of the Eastern Europeans' territories - but it will all depend on the starting date anyway ~:) . If the Hungarians were a major group in 400 CE then they will be included as rebels in their own independant nations as richyg13 pointed out.

richyg13 - I will put up some major city names in the Map post and from those we can choose which to include. The limit should not be too hard to deal with I think. I'm not sure that they should be divided up according to modern borders though... If one of these American Nations took over the world I doubt that they would have drawn the same borders... But if the modern borders are all we have to go by then by all means use them ~:) .

Speaking of Faction names: calling the Celtic and Germanic States the Anglo Saxons may be more appropriate? Also, the Slavs could be called Eastern European States and the Maya the Mesoamericans? Please offer feedback.

GaugamelaTC
05-01-2005, 10:16
Would anglo saxons, really cover all of Western Europe. Why not simply call them Western Europeans. Also have you found my picture of Canadian early tribal weapons and tools? I think Mesoamericans would be a good idea because the Aztecs were a major civilization and I think they do deserve to be included in some way.

Lonely Soldier
05-01-2005, 22:46
GaugamelaTC - The Western Europeans or Celtic and Germanic States are probably more suitable names ~:) .

I have put up a few new map pictures.

Lonely Soldier
05-04-2005, 08:16
Historical Battles
This post is organised by region. Many of these will not be applcicable for our mod (any involving combat between say France and England will be probably be impossible). Feel free to make suggestions:

Europe

The Somme (if we get that far ~:) )

Hastings (1066)

Las Navas de Tolosa (1212)

Agincourt (1415)

Bosworth Field (1485)

Crecy (1346)

Poitiers (1356)

Bannockburn (1314)

Chalons (451)

Roncevaux (778)

Stamford Bridge (1066)

Tours (732)

Ascalon (1099)

Nancy (1477)

Wakefield (1460)

Ad Decimum (533)

Akroinon (740)

Aljubarotta (1385)

Angora (1402)

Arbedo (1422)

Arsuf (1191)

The Middle East


West Asia
Battle between Alexander and Porus - Hellas vs. India

East Asia
Sekigahara - Japan 1 vs. Japan 2

North Eurasia
Kursk - Western Europeans (German) vs. Eastern Eurpoeans (Russian)

North America
Various Civil War Engagements (If possible)

South America


The Pacific

richyg13
05-04-2005, 16:41
Preview of Mayan Warriors (Swordsmen)
http://img256.echo.cx/img256/3535/warrior9mk.th.jpg (http://img256.echo.cx/my.php?image=warrior9mk.jpg)

First look at the mayan warriors, this is a "new" model, basically edited from the existing carthaginian infantry model. This is my first EVER character ive got to work in a any game :P so it does look kinda boring :P

notice ive tried to get the sword to look a bit like that in the picture.

Whats the final word on the mayan's colour scheme?? because i'll change everything to fit that now and get them completly finished. I'll add archers to their army selection soon.

GaugamelaTC
05-04-2005, 19:38
Hey guys great work richyg and the new maps I expect will help you alot Lonely Soldier. I've managed to post some of those tools and weapons for canadian tribes. If you wanna put them with all the rest Lonely then that's up to you.

richyg13
05-04-2005, 20:04
I'm struggling to get a working campaign map at the moment. The outline of america is done so its a case of getting the regions etc. on and painting heights and terrain types onto it.
Currently it wont load so im working out whats wrong with it.

richyg13
05-04-2005, 22:28
http://img201.echo.cx/img201/416/warrior20td.th.jpg (http://img201.echo.cx/my.php?image=warrior20td.jpg)

shot of the warriors in the requested turquise colour... personally i prefer the yellow so please have your say.

Lonely Soldier
05-05-2005, 06:53
richyg13 - I like those clubs - almost exactly right ~:) !

Colours: The faction colours listed are only for borders and banners (that teal is real ugly in game - my bad!). All the units will be coloured as they really were: black with white spots for Aztec Warrior priests etc. Do not worry about lowly units being simple colours; it befits their status within the society. All I'm saying is that the units are to be their historical colours. It won't matter if all of the low level units in the mod wear bland colours. The armies must look vibrant and exciting without being the colour of their faction - except banners of course.

Campaign Map: I too have been unable to get a Campaign map to load unfortunately.

I will put up a topographic/terrain map for the Americas when I get a chance.

Ianofsmeg16
05-08-2005, 09:52
y'know if theres anything else involving research i'll do it, why? cos i am bored and have an extenxive book collection :book: :book: ~:cool:

richyg13
05-08-2005, 17:37
I have some kinda sad news...

I'm gonna be a unable to do much work in the coming month or so cus im moving out of my parent's house to live with my friends and we're not gonna have internet there for a little while so the only time i can do work is when im here on saturday nights.

Hopefully we're gonna have the internet put in down there soon enough so i can continue my work, ill take my PC down there then.

Lonely Soldier
05-08-2005, 22:27
ian_of_smeg16 - Thanks! We still need more information on the North Americans, so anything you can find on them would be useful.

richyg13 - Hope the move goes well ~:) ! By the time you return to the thread there should be a lot more concepts up to be worked on.

pyradyn
05-09-2005, 01:27
Hey sounds like a great mod i can help with African tribes mainly Zulu I lived in South Africa for a year and have some Zulu friends that could help oh and about politics and religion i think it would make the game more playable if u could choose ur religion and politics and have the computer just fallow history for every 1 else like have an area where u change religion and politics it would probly add some time on construction of the mod but it would make the mod its slef better than RTW

Lonely Soldier
05-09-2005, 08:35
pyradyn - Thanks for the offer of assistance! It would be most useful! ~:)
With regard to politics and religion - you will be able to choose both. Monarchy will be available from the start but fascism and communism will only become available later (as history dictates). The AI will (if its possible) follow history, or (if it is not) they will do what is best under the circumstances. Also, choosing a new system of government may (we haven't decided for certain yet) only be possible if the average loyalty of your settlements drops below a certain level.

Religions will be chosen by building the appropriate worship structure, and different religions and denominations will become available at the accurate dates - and also in the appropriate regions, but this aspect will probably prove to be very difficult to implement!

Myrddraal
05-09-2005, 10:30
About the unit skins, any clothes that start with such bright colours soon get dulled. Go over them in PS or PSP, make them a bit dustier or browner, and add some shadows to them, they will look 100 time better. :smile:

Lonely Soldier
05-10-2005, 06:43
Myrddraal - If we choose to go with that colour we will definitely go along the path you suggest.

Ianofsmeg16
05-15-2005, 16:31
hi,
what american indian Faction(s) are you going to put in the mod. this'll help me greatly reaserching for them. cheers!

:charge: :duel: :duel: :charge:

GaugamelaTC
05-15-2005, 17:10
Love the new skins! btw ian of smeg I think they prefer native americans.
Have you made any decisions on that unit colour. I don't like the teal, its really is too bright.

Ianofsmeg16
05-15-2005, 17:13
ok then Guagemala, what Native American factions will you be using? lol
:charge: :duel: :duel: :charge:

Lonely Soldier
05-16-2005, 06:31
ian_of_smeg16 - We will be using the Crow, Apache and Iroquois tribes.

GaugamelaTC - As I said: "Colours: The faction colours listed are only for borders and banners (that teal is real ugly in game - my bad!). All the units will be coloured as they really were: black with white spots for Aztec Warrior priests etc. Do not worry about lowly units being simple colours [browns and tans etc. as those basic Aztec warriors will be]; it befits their status within the society. All I'm saying is that the units are to be their historical colours. It won't matter if all of the low level units in the mod wear bland colours. The armies must look vibrant and exciting without being the colour of their faction - except banners of course."

General Announcement:

I'm increasingly of the opinion that this mod would be more succesful with the expansion - new features, more units etc. This is not to say that we should stop working on it before then as almost everything in the Expansion should be backwards compatible!

Also, Imperial Glory crashed and then restarted my computer ~D .

Lonely Soldier
05-25-2005, 06:47
Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I've had a lot on recently. Please start posting your ideas for the mod people. This applies to anyone!

Ianofsmeg16
05-25-2005, 20:24
Apache The Apache tribes had evidently drifted from the north during the prehistoric period, probably along the eastern flanks of the Rocky Mountains. When Coronado encountered them in 1540 under the name Querechos, they were in eastern New Mexico and western Texas, and they apparently did not reach Arizona until after the middle of the sixteenth century. They were first called Apache by Onate in 1598. After that time their history was one succession of raids upon the Spanish territories, and after the United States Government had supplanted that of Mexico in the Southwest, the wars with the Apache constituted some of the most sensational chapters in our military annals. Except for some Apache in Mexico and a few Lipans with the Tonkawa and Kiowa in Oklahoma, these people were finally gathered into reservations in New Mexico and Arizona.

CrowA Siouan tribe forming part of the Hidatsa group, their separation from the Hidatsa having taken place, as Matthews (1894) believed, within the last 200 years. Hayden, following their tradition, placed it about 1776. According to this story it was the result of a factional dispute between two chiefs who were desperate men and nearly equal in the number of their followers. They were then residing on Missouri river, and one of the two bands which afterward became the Crows withdrew and migrated to the vicinity of the Rocky mountains, through which region they continued to rove until gathered on reservations. Since their separation from the Hidatsa their history has been similar to that of most tribes of the plains, one of perpetual war with the surrounding tribes, their chief enemies being the Siksika and the Dakota. At the time of the Lewis and Clark expedition (1804) they dwelt chiefly on Bighorn river; Brown (1817) located them on the Yellowstone and the east side of the Rocky mountains; Drake (1834) on the south branch of the Yellowstone, in lat. 46º long. 105º. Hayden (1862) wrote: "The country usually inhabited by the Crows is in and near the Rocky mountains, along the sources of Powder, Wind, and Bighorn rivers, on the south side of the Yellowstone, as far as Laramie fork on the Platte river. They are also often found on the west and north side of that river, as far as the source of the Musselshell and as low down as the mouth of the Yellowstone."
According to Maximilian (1843) the tipis of the Crows were exactly like those of the Sioux, set up without any regular order, and on the poles, instead of scalps were small pieces of colored cloth, chiefly red, floating like streamers in the wind. The camp he visited swarmed with wolf like dogs. They were a wandering tribe of hunters, making no plantations except a few small patches of tobacco. They lived at that time in some 400 tents and are said to have possessed between 9,000 and 10,000 horses. Maximilian considered them the proudest of Indians, despising the whites; "they do not, however, kill them, but often plunder them." In stature and dress they corresponded with the Hidatsa, and were proud of their long hair. The women have been described as skilful in various kinds of work, and their shirts and dresses of bighorn leather, as well as there buffalo robes, embroidered and ornamented with dyed porcupine quills, as particularly handsome. The men made their weapons very well and with much taste, especially their large bows, covered with horn of the elk or bighorn and often with rattlesnake skin. The Crows have been described as extremely superstitious, very dissolute, and much given to unnatural practices; they are skilful horsemen, throwing themselves on one side in their attacks, as is done by many Asiatic tribes. Their dead were usually placed on stages elevated on poles in the prairie.
The population was estimated by Lewis and Clark (1804) at 350 lodges and 3,500 individuals; in 1829 and 1834, at 4,500; Maximilian (1843) counted 400 tipis; Hayden (1862) said there were formerly about 800 lodges or families, in 1862 reduced to 460 lodges. Their number in 1890 was 2,287; in 1904, 1,826.

The Crows have been officially classified as Mountain Crows and River Crows, the former so called because of their custom of hunting and roaming near the mountains away from Missouri river, the latter from the fact that they left the mountain section about 1859 and occupied the country along the river. There was no ethnic, linguistic, or other difference between them. The Mountain Crows numbered 2,700 in 1871 and the River Crows 1,400

the sioux history will come in a minute

:charge: :duel: :duel: :charge:

Ianofsmeg16
05-25-2005, 20:28
well, i made a mistake in the other post. This is the history of the IROQUOIS tribe.

The original homeland of the Iroquois was in upstate New York between the Adirondack Mountains and Niagara Falls. Through conquest and migration, they gained control of most of the northeastern United States and eastern Canada. At its maximum in 1680, their empire extended west from the north shore of Chesapeake Bay through Kentucky to the junction of the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers; then north following the Illinois River to the south end of Lake Michigan; east across all of lower Michigan, southern Ontario and adjacent parts of southwestern Quebec; and finally south through northern New England west of the Connecticut River through the Hudson and upper Delaware Valleys across Pennsylvania back to the Chesapeake. With two exceptions - the Mingo occupation of the upper Ohio Valley and the Caughnawaga migration to the upper St. Lawrence - the Iroquois did not, for the most part, physically occupy this vast area but remained in their upstate New York villages.

During the hundred years preceding the American Revolution, wars with French-allied Algonquin and British colonial settlement forced them back within their original boundaries once again. Their decision to side with the British during the Revolutionary War was a disaster for the Iroquois. The American invasion of their homeland in 1779 drove many of the Iroquois into southern Ontario where they have remained. With large Iroquois communities already located along the upper St. Lawrence in Quebec at the time, roughly half of the Iroquois population has since lived in Canada. This includes most of the Mohawk along with representative groups from the other tribes. Although most Iroquois reserves are in southern Ontario and Quebec, one small group (Michel's band) settled in Alberta during the 1800s as part of the fur trade.

In the United States, much of the Iroquois homeland was surrendered to New York land speculators in a series of treaties following the Revolutionary War. Despite this, most Seneca, Tuscarora, and Onondaga avoided removal during the 1830s and have remained in New York. There are also sizeable groups of Mohawk, Oneida, Cayuga, and Caughnawaga still in the state. Most of the Oneida, however, relocated in 1838 to a reservation near Green Bay, Wisconsin. The Cayuga sold their New York lands in 1807 and moved west to join the Mingo relatives (Seneca of Sandusky) in Ohio. In 1831 this combined group ceded their Ohio reserve to the United States and relocated to the Indian Territory. A few New York Seneca moved to Kansas at this time but, after the Civil War, joined the others in northeast Oklahoma to become the modern Seneca-Cayuga Tribe of Oklahoma.

i've got some names of villages somewhere

Lonely Soldier
05-26-2005, 06:26
ian_of_smeg16 - this is brilliant information ~D ! Really useful and in-depth stuff! The names of those towns will be really useful too!

Ianofsmeg16
05-26-2005, 16:23
sorry had to f-disk my pc losing all my files so i lost the village names, it may be some time till i get more info on Native American Villages.
if theres anything else in the meantime, involving research (or basic text editing) i will be happy to help

:charge: :duel: :duel: :charge:

Lonely Soldier
05-26-2005, 23:41
ian_of_smeg16 - Crap about your PC! I'll do a bit more hunting round myself ~:) . I'll put up some new unit ideas in a little bit as well.

Ianofsmeg16
05-31-2005, 18:40
ian_of_smeg16 - Crap about your PC! I'll do a bit more hunting round myself ~:) . I'll put up some new unit ideas in a little bit as well.
if you want me to reaserch different tactics of Native American
warriors, or the warriors themselves that'll be fine. If theres any other reaserch you want me to do i'll do it

Lonely Soldier
06-02-2005, 06:39
ian_of_smeg16 - every little bit helps ~:) !

GaugamelaTC
06-04-2005, 21:29
Hello everybody. I'm back. I haven't been on for a while coz of revision on my break and stuff. But im back for a bit and are there any areas you would like me to research?

Lonely Soldier
06-05-2005, 06:22
GaugamelaTC - Nice to hear from you Gaug! We could do with some more details on what kinds of warrior the North Americans had. From this information we can start to introduce technological eras to that basic style to make our units for later ages.

Lonely Soldier
06-18-2005, 02:13
I think that we should initially focus on having the whole world in play and implement the technological eras later... What does everyone else think?

PS - I found a useful site for civilisation comparison: http://www.bruichladdich.com/timeline.htm

swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:05
Great!!!

darkragnar
06-18-2005, 18:08
What i would really like to know is How on earth are you going to get City Names and LOcation of the Whole Globe Right? i mean there could be about 1000000000 citys in the world in a given era, while ur mod covers diff eras how u plan to make new citys like Washington DC, or old citys that got destroyed like Troy, or Atlantis , i would also like to know how you plan to do citys for the Native Indians ,coz they lived in Tepees

It would also quench my Curiosity to know how are you going to handle the wonders, i mean wonders shift from age to age , for eg you didnt have the Statue Of Liberty until the French Built it for the Americans, or the Taj Mahal wasnt there unitil Shah Jaha built it for Mumtaz ???? ~:confused: ~:confused:

Chilly5
06-19-2005, 02:26
i dont know wat ur talking about (didnt read entire thread) but i suppose that this mod will be played out somewhere along the lines of civilization? where not every faction presented will not be too hisotorically acurrate? ie-aztecs didnt exsist in 50 BC. also i suggest that the "eras" be changed with the marian reforms, but u probally already thought of that . . . and lastly, i suggestr that u stop, or at least postpone it. a mod of this magnitude is too much to be done by one team . . . i highly suggest that ur course of action be this: wait until a lot of the MM are out (as just about the entire world is being modified if u look at all the mods out there) and download them, and with permission from the makers, combine the most important factions and make the merged mod. i.e. aztecs and iroqios from the native america mod (founded by me! ~:cool: ), japaese from sengoku jida (forgot name), romans from rtw (or a rome mod), greeks from a greek mod (age of hellas?), persians (will be included?) from persia tw, napoleon from napoleon tw, WWI from a WWI mod if anyone makes one (the original died), WWII from alliesvs axis, chinese from china tw etc. but yeah . . . . maybe i'm talkin giberish, but i didnt read ur whole thread . . . watever, good luck! :bow:

Lonely Soldier
06-19-2005, 09:28
darkragnar - Hi. We are going to put in the most important cities and use their most well known or longest used names. A lot of native americans built mud-brick structures but we are still working it out... In Rome the Scythians have cities even though I think they were nomadic. Also the number of cities in Rome vanilla is hardly accurate.

Chilly5 - The Aztecs will be a division of the Mayans when it is appropriate to include them - the mod is likely to start around 400AD anyways. Depending on how much work there turns out to be it seems inevitable that we will combine forces with other mod teams - this mod could be seen as a huge collaboration project ~:) .

Swordwolf - ~D .

Lonely Soldier
06-20-2005, 06:55
I just wanted to set a few things straight:

Factions -
Factions will generally be defined by culture - Eastern and Western Europe seperate, Japan and China seperate, India and South East Asians seperate etc. Though this means that there will never be an American Civil War or World War I or II the factions will be more strongly defined and variable. There will still be potential for Sino-Japanese wars, Russo-Japanese wars, Anglo-African wars, Anglo-American wars etc. Note: new factions may be introduced mid-game like in Medieval where factions would re-emerge - this may become possible in the Expansion.

Cities and Regions -
Only cities which meet certain criteria of population and geographic and historical importance, will be included. For example Chang'An, Edo, London, Paris, Teotihuacan and Cuzco etc. Note: the number of available cities may change if more of the game is opened to modding.

Units -
Most famous military orders will be included as sub-sets or sub-factions. For example the Western Europeans will have access to Conquistador type units in its Spanish provinces, the Mayans will have access to Aztec Warrior Priests etc. in what would be Aztec provinces. So, there will effectively be more than 21 factions if special units are counted. Note: we only have about 300 unit slots, at least until the expansion, so if we leave anything out, please tell us if we do, but we may not be able to put it in.

General Announcement:
We are still most definitely looking for more people to join the mod - our modeller (richyg13) has not been in a position to work on the mod for some time and unless we get more people this project will not come to fruition.

DeadRunner
06-27-2005, 11:11
when is released ??

Lonely Soldier
06-28-2005, 01:11
DeadRunner - Well... We still don't even have a modeller, our skinner has disappeared and we have about 10,000 things to change in the game. So not for a while yet ~D !

Just a correction: we now have a mapper/modeller who can spare some time to help with the mod! Welcome aboard irish_own!

Lonely Soldier
07-17-2005, 08:18
Well, irish_own hasn't gotten in touch for a while. No one has posted for ages and the mod seems largely impossible. If anyone wants this thing to be made please give us a hand, we need you!

irish_own
07-17-2005, 22:50
I apologize for not being around, as I don't come here very often among other things. I sent you a PM at SCC.

Lonely Soldier
07-21-2005, 06:52
irish_own - No problem ~:) . I was just having a bad day is all.

Lonely Soldier
07-24-2005, 03:01
Hi all!

irish_own is nearing a rough (pretty much only outlines so far), but still playable version of the campaign map ~D . We are yet to finalise cities and a finish date, but we are making good progress.

Once again, a B I G thank you to irish_own!

richyg13
07-25-2005, 00:10
eherm :) hello gang!

Im REALY REALY REALY sorry for disappearing on you like i did :( had some serious changes in my life but they're all sorted now! :) thank god!

kinda like totally finished with the girl i was sposed to marry, kinda sucks, but its probably for the best cus i aint got her nagging me every ten minutes for money (thieving *****).

im with a new girl now and we're very happy (plus she earns proper money so she aint nagging for mine lol) and she dnt nag to see me that much so im home most nights... but not always sober :)

so anyway, i think in my ermm "grand wisdom" lost alot of the work i done for the mod plus i dnt think anyone has any backups so im gonna have to do alot of work from scratch agen. i wanna get back into this work cus my (newly found) friend has incited me to restart working on this stuff (shes into skinning too).

so i think i can probably lend my services agen if you want me back??

Lonely Soldier
07-25-2005, 07:05
richyg13 - Wonderful to hear from you! We definitely want you back ~D ! You are an indispensible member of the team!
Sorry to hear about all that stuff with the girlfriend and all, but I'm glad things have worked themselves out ~:) .
We have a new team member working on the map and some modelling, irish_own, which is very good news, but your help is still invaluable!

Anyway, welcome back! (If you want a run-down of any changes we've made, just PM me and I'll try to catch you up).

richyg13
07-25-2005, 12:54
i have good news!

ive found all the textures i made before :) i did keep a back-up after all :P but i lost the coding files, so ill have to put them all back into the game when i get chance tonight.
i still have the mayan warrior model too (it needs adjusting of course).

nice ot hear we have a mapper :D makes things much easier :D

he working on getting us a demo map of the americas??

Lonely Soldier
07-25-2005, 21:53
richyg13 - Great news about the textures! irish_own is working on the complete world map at the moment, so I thought we could release that (using the standard R:TW factions) as a kind of teaser for the mod. We could, of course, include any units we had already made and re-name the factions if we so wished.

I think a good step to take with the factions would be to make their faction icons. I'll post some more ideas in the Factions Post in a while.

richyg13
07-26-2005, 00:14
ok well i can have a bash at making us some faction icons, im a little dubious on how to get them to work in game cus i was playing bout with them before but ill have a proper go dnt worry.

oh so i can confirm, what factions are replacing what?? will help in getting it sorted :)

Lonely Soldier
07-26-2005, 07:30
I've PM'd you richyg13 and forgot to give you a full and complete list :embarassed: !

Here it is - the current names (and previous names in brackets) for the factions are:

The Roman Empire

The Hellenistic States

The Celtic and Germanic States (Western Europe)

The Slavic States (Eastern Europe)

The Sassanid Empire (Persia)

The Gupta Empire (India)

The Champa Empire (Southeast Asian States)

The Polynesian Tribes

China - a unified Rome-like faction and a Senate-like power

Japan (the Isles of Japan)

The Apache

The Iroquois

The Crow

The Meso-American Alliance (the Maya) - will include Aztecs in the appropriate provinces and after the appropriate date

The Inca Empire (the Incas)

The Mongols

TOTAL - 17

Factions yet to be pinned down:

The African Tribes (between 1 and 3) - they might not make it into the final game...

TOTAL - 18-20

note: we now may be able to seperate Britain, Germany and France! We'll have a bit more of a look though! We will at least be able to seperate Germany from Western Europe.

Another note: I have my doubts about using historically specific names, so, if anyone else thinks they should be more general e,g. India instead of Gupta Empire, please let me know and I will happily change them.

I've also updated the Maps post (on page 2 I think) with a bunch of new/updated material. I'm starting to think that the 400CE start date is perfect!

richyg13
07-29-2005, 23:33
i was bored and made a new banner very quickly. what u reckon??

https://img248.imageshack.us/img248/534/aombanner26uj.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

I'll report back with the units work soon.

shifty157
07-29-2005, 23:50
I havent looked at this mod in a while and im glad to see that its still alive and progressing well. Good job to everyone on the team.

One small note though. I think the colors on the tunics of the mayans and the incans are far too bright. Tone down the brightness and theyll look alot better.

richyg13
07-29-2005, 23:56
i just had a thought, im slightly against the idea of having an african tribes faction... no african country (excluding South Africa i spose) in the real world has amounted to any great significance. The african tribes units can be rebels/mercenaries/recruitable units.
I think it would be better suited to spilt say the Celtic and Germanic States into 2 seperate factions (The Celtic Sates and The Germanic States). Europe has been the centre for many great wars over time and it would be greater to have more factions here and let them build their empires into africa like what happened historically.

Just my opinion :)

richyg13
07-29-2005, 23:58
I havent looked at this mod in a while and im glad to see that its still alive and progressing well. Good job to everyone on the team.

One small note though. I think the colors on the tunics of the mayans and the incans are far too bright. Tone down the brightness and theyll look alot better.

Yeh they are too bright at the moment (my problem to fix hehe) its cus ive done no shading work on these skins yet. It'll be fixed in due time. there are still graphical glitches to fix with them at the moment, you cant see them in the screenshots but u'll quickly notice them if you played a battle with them.

Lonely Soldier
08-01-2005, 06:54
shifty157 - Thanks! None of the units (or pretty much none) will actually have their faction colours present in their outfits. We were just trying to get a WIP shot up. I hope for all the colours to be historically accurate.

richyg13 - I'm liking the new banner! I'll put it in my signiature ~:) . We aren't actually going past 1900 though.. I still reckon its pretty cool. We could eventually have one for every faction: a sort of early and late comparison in the style you're using. Then people could have their favourite faction in their signiatures! We might want to do a timeline version as well: highlighting the early, middle and late unit types.

You might be right about Africa... if we are going to include an African influence, it could be one faction, a kind of tribal coalition. This would also allow for more deliniation of factions in Europe.

Also, what do you think of the new faction names? They seemed very atmospheric and fitting when I put them up, but now I'm not sure if they're general enough.

richyg13
08-01-2005, 12:37
no they are fine, as you say they are atmospheric so keep them.

i persoanlly still want the mod to have the potential of going into the 1900's cus i was trying to work out how modern warefare could be implemted and thinking about it still can even if its not 100% accurate.

the focus should still be on the early stages for now, working our way up.

I like ur idea for different banners, find me images and ill make banners from them ~:)

i would realy like the germanic/celtic to split into 2 factions persoanlly but thats just me :bow:

ill be back with more work soon.
ive got alot of the unit back in the game, im gna remodel and skin the amazonian archers soon.

Lonely Soldier
08-02-2005, 08:31
richyg13 - Here are some pictures for the Japanese banner:

IJA Soldier - https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2801/soldierjapsnlflander3if.th.jpg (https://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soldierjapsnlflander3if.jpg)

Samurai - https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5964/250pxsamurai7zl.th.jpg (https://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=250pxsamurai7zl.jpg)

richyg13
08-02-2005, 14:44
Japanese Banner:

https://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8981/aombannerjapan5ww.jpg

richyg13
08-02-2005, 15:59
I'm working on producing a web-site so that the mod can be shown in its entirety in place, save navigating this thread.


its located here ---
http://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/

its still in progress cus theres lots to add to it.

Lonely Soldier
08-03-2005, 06:16
richyg13 - How very exciting! I like the Japanese banner too! I'll see if I can rope in a friend of mine to do some concept drawings for the non-historical units. I'll write up the faction descriptions as they'll appear in game and e-mail them to you. Also, once we get the site a little more polished we can get a profile on the Mod Database for a little more publicity! Come to think of it, I might as well get the profile now ~:) .

richyg13
08-05-2005, 10:44
Update:

The following units are in game (they are NOT the final versions but are good enough for now)

The Inca Empire
Inca Spearmen
Inca Slingers
Amazonian Archers (needs new model if to 100% correct)

The Meso-American Alliance
Spearmen
Spearthrowers (needs a unit card image)
Alliance Warriors (going to be given unique skin)

we need a decent moddler, my attempts keep getting knocked back by my lack of knowledge of 3DStudio Max.

we could also do with a more advanced coder than myself, they can sort of game balance issues then too.

Another Skinner to work on another end of the mod would be nice. simply give them the chinese army to do as its a big job.

more updates soon.

Lonely Soldier
08-06-2005, 00:24
richyg13 - Great to see that update! I've established a profile at the mod database ( http://mods.moddb.com/5620/ ), but in order to add people to the team they need to register there. Once I add you, you can update the profile, add images, delete posts etc.

richyg13
08-06-2005, 13:38
im registered there now as RichyG13, i guess u have to add me to the team??

nice to see some true progress now :)

Lonely Soldier
08-07-2005, 01:52
richyg13 - you are now registered with medium control over the profile: you can add news posts, images etc. (the only thing you can't do is add or remove team members), you are head texture artist, and texture artist for the American Factions (I figure we'll get an artist for each region - one for Europe, one for the Middle-East, one for Asia (including Polynesia)).

On a side note I have started working on the soundtrack for the mod - which will largely be drawn from classical music. Each faction will have its own set of six campaign tracks, six 'mobilise' tracks, 4 battle tracks, 4 tension tracks, a win battle track, a draw battle track, a lose battle track and a track for winning and losing the campaign (a total of twenty-five pieces for each faction).

I will most likely complete the Roman and Slavic soundtracks first (as there is a lot of music available for both), I will then follow up with Japan, China, Britain and Germany.

Lonely Soldier
08-13-2005, 02:46
Richg13 - Here are some possible faction icon images for the mesoamericans:

This one's a little garish...
https://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2622/maya20age8nf.th.gif (https://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maya20age8nf.gif)

I am quite partial to this one though...
[img=https://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2653/aztec19mt.th.png] (https://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aztec19mt.png)

shifty157
08-13-2005, 04:22
Is it just me or is that guy wearing someone else's skin?

Regardless you can use them both. One for the icon, the other for the battlefield standard.

Lonely Soldier
08-14-2005, 03:05
shifty157 - That's a good point. I don't think that the guy is wearing someone's skin (though that did happen), I think he's a general or commander or something.

Lonely Soldier
08-23-2005, 07:01
We now have a concept artist: BishopSix ~D !
You can see some of his work here: https://photobucket.com/albums/v20/bishopsix/Portfolio/ .

I will be adding a faction feature soon which will come out forttnightly or so, detailing the armies etc. for the factions.

Lonely Soldier
09-05-2005, 08:58
Could someone tell me what a good program to create technology trees would be? I've pretty much got the information I'm going to include, so I just need a good program to do it in...

Any thoughts?

ExcaliburFIN
09-05-2005, 20:26
Is this mod still running? Dead/alive? How much done?

alpaca
09-06-2005, 00:57
Do you need a program that generates the tech-tree code for R:TW or something that you can use to make bubbles and stuff?

Lonely Soldier
09-07-2005, 05:37
ExcaliburFIN - Status: alive. Progress: not great, but getting there.

alpaca - I've got Publisher, but I think I will need to make a larger sheet. Any ideas.

alpaca
09-07-2005, 13:06
Well, that depends.
I found that UML tools can be used to create tech trees. But if you don't know about UML it's highly frustrating and bewildering. The benefit would be that you have basically as much space as you want and also have the full drawing options. If you want to try it, Poseidon for UML is free for non-commercial use (you have to register though), available at www.gentleware.com

You need a Java Runtime, too, available at www.java.com

Bishop Six
09-08-2005, 20:05
Hey, everyone. The concept artist finally produces some concept art. ~:)
This is an idea of a cannon that the mesoamericans might have produced if they had ever done so. I don't believe they ever did, especially since they lacked any metalworking skills(correct?). So, I also included a style of cannon made from a tree trunk.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/bishopsix/AoM/meso-cannon.jpg

Lonely Soldier
09-08-2005, 23:42
Bishop Six - :jawdrop: ! The tree trunk option I particularly like! An excellent first concept! Soon, when we have a modeller, we may be able to see it in action! And you are right, the Maya were not skilled metal workers, they didn't even use metal tools, which makes their pyramids even more impressive.

Fantastic work :bow: !

shifty157
09-09-2005, 01:42
Very nice concept work. And no the americas did not have gunpowder until the europeans came. Even then the mayans/incans/etc never developed gunpowder weapons. They were wiped out too quickly.

I would highly suggest adding some small wheels to the bottom of that. If for no other reason than in RTW all equipment is mobile.

This mod doesnt have a modeler? I always thought it did. But you say that soon youll be getting one which is good. Hopefully then youll be able to get off the ground a bit and start moving.

shifty157
09-11-2005, 05:44
Hows this?

https://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5097/cannon9gd.jpg

I just made it. The concepts looked interesting so i thought why the hell not. Theres some minor stuff i need to tweak and then ill send you the .cas and such. But thats for tomorrow. At the moment im rather dead.

Lonely Soldier
09-11-2005, 06:05
shifty157 - ~:cheers: . I'm not sure what to say... That's great ~D ! I'll have to post that on the ModDb! And don't worry, you will be credited as a supplementary modeller, unless you wish to make your services available more permanently...?

Announcement
I have put up an advertisement for three modelling positions on the polycount.com website's message board. One for the Americans, one for the Europeans and one for the Eastern factions. If anyone else is interested in applying, PM or Email me at sabishiisamurai@hotmail.com .

Lonely Soldier
09-12-2005, 04:45
Big news! Shifty157 has gotten the first model for our mod in-game! Check out the "cannon" thread for screenies (I'll post them at the ModDb profile in a while.

richyg13
09-14-2005, 17:54
i made a crew skin for the cannon (looks like the others cus i aint bothered chaning anything yet). add the following so that the cannon has the new crew.

>> to descr_model_battle.txt >>
type aom_maya_crew
skeleton fs_dagger
indiv_range 40
texture gauls, data/models_unit/textures/mayan/unit_mayan_crew.tga
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_carthage_crew_high.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_carthage_crew_med.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_carthage_crew_low.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_carthage_crew_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite spain, 60.0, data/sprites/spain_carthaginian_crew_sprite.spr
model_sprite numidia, 60.0, data/sprites/numidia_carthaginian_crew_sprite.spr
model_sprite carthage, 60.0, data/sprites/carthage_carthaginian_crew_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

>>>>>>

>> export_descr_unit.txt >>

change the soldier model your using to aom_maya_crew

>>>>>>

add the texture located here (http://dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/unit_mayan_crew.tga.zip) to data\models_unit\textures\mayan\

cannon with crew... can have some real crew standing next to the cannon now in the screenies :)

----------

Real Life has still got a major hold on me at the moment but i thought i'd may aswell add this since it didnt take long (20mins).

shifty157
09-14-2005, 21:16
nice richyg13. Ill put that in and get a screen or two up. Im still working my through the various seige engine/projectile/etc effects to get the cannon looking and working the best that i can.



Heres the cannons with their new crew.

https://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9282/cannoncrew0wt.jpg


Nice skin richyg13.

Lonely Soldier
09-15-2005, 00:45
Nice one!

Bishop Six
09-15-2005, 07:49
Excellent! We'll see how well the Spaniards can conquer the Mesoamericans this time around. ~:)

richyg13
09-15-2005, 08:04
you can see theres a join problem on the face, im getting it on all the new skins ive made, its something to do when im cropping to make the lower mip-maps.

The skin aint finished... i could have a play with them all soon to try and get them finished, fully shaded etc.

hope you can get the effects working good cus i like lots of smoke on a battlefield :)

Right i got to go to work now :| im so skint its unreal so im working any hours i can get so im well exhausted :P plus i got football training tonight, nice to be back after 9 months (didnt kick a ball for 6 months :|).

C u all soon.

Lonely Soldier
09-17-2005, 00:49
Bishop Six - Yes, the Spanish won't be expecting these to be wheeled out ~:) .

richyg13 - Thanks ~:) .


General Comment
I've been thinking about how to guide the development of the factions in terms of technology (Mesoamericans and cannon for example), and I think the best way to nudge the factions down the historical path is to make that path the most appealing financially. So, for the Mesoamericans, religious and agricultural development would be the easiest way to go. We would also make it attractive to have large but not particularly advanced military bodies.
Just a thought... Of course, developing along the other roads would be possible, just slightly more demanding financially.
What do others think?

richyg13
09-20-2005, 22:34
RAAA! Hello again! :)

Richy brings you some progress.

I've started work on the Mesoamerican's Standard and also started some shading on the spearmen (it looks a little untidy in places at the moment).

https://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1482/mayans16yd.th.jpg (https://img400.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mayans16yd.jpg)

I can change the shape of the standard to anything you want so if you think it should be different just shout ~D

-----

@Lonely Soldier
I'm not sure how the scripts work for RTW but it maybe possible to use them to construct a tech-tree which therefore trigger the next age to exist for a faction (using the same principles as the marian reforms event) dsicover gunpower and you enter the gunpowder age.
-----

EDIT: Image now hosted on imageshack, my brother's web-space has trouble externally linking

Lonely Soldier
09-21-2005, 00:04
richyg13 - The picture hasn't loaded/won't display, but I'm glad to see some progress ~D !

Reforms etc.
I think that will be the easiest way to do it, as long as there can be multiple and triggered reforms for any faction.

richyg13
09-21-2005, 15:10
It should be more than possible to do that. end of the day its just an event and it not hard-coded cus i checked.

the image is fixed now, im using imageshack to host it instead.

Also, i think my aim now is to try and get the meso-american army done up to the gunpowder age (means we need muskets/rifles made) so i need a list of units that are needed up to this age. To date we have...

- Spearmen [Spearmen]
- Spearthrowers [Missile/Skirmisher]
- Alliance Warriors [Heavy Infantry]
- Trunk Cannon [Artillery]

Alot of units will become obsolete after the Gunpowder age, Spearmen become Pikemen, Spearthrowers/Bowmen get replaced by rifles etc. (Gunpowder Age is the transition stage). If i can ill nag my bro to make me a musket cus he can model weapons quite well.

richyg13
09-22-2005, 00:06
Possible Inca Icon:
https://img353.imageshack.us/img353/8122/incasymbol15yb.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Say whether you think i should use this throughout.

and...
Mayan Icon:
https://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1834/mayansymbol6vo.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

actually appears on the loading screen and in faction selection screens.

Lonely Soldier
09-22-2005, 00:23
richyg13 - I like the Mayan icon a lot! I'll try to get a list of units out to you in a while ~:) . Also, I'll ask Bishop Six to do some possible musket concepts for us and I'll send him the unit list as well to see what he can do with it.

richyg13
09-22-2005, 11:04
Before i do too much with the interface graphics I want to once again clarify the factions cus i dnt think theres much of a balance here.

The Americas: - 3 factions
The Meso-American Empire - Confirmed!
The Inca Empire - Confirmed!
The North-American Tribes - We doing these are a single faction or multiple factions?

Europe: - 4 Factions
Celto-Germanic - I realy would like these seperated into 2 since the Britsh and Germans have such a history.
Rome - Must have so Confirmed!
Slavic States - Confirmed!
Hellas - Who are these? im probably just stupid but i dunno lol.
--- (What about Greece and Egypt? Europe was a rife battlefield throughout history yet we only have 4 factions here.)

Asia - 6/8
The Chinese Kingdoms - Ok so theres a senate plus one other faction? or should we have more?
The Japanese - Confirmed!
Champa Empire - Errr i think we could actually make these rebels to be honest but still make units for them.
The Gupta Empire (India) - Yeh Big influencal nation so Confirmed!
The Polynesians - I know its not realy asia but this lot are realy out on a limb so should we bother?

Total Playable Factions - 14/16 (19 possible)
plus the Senate

richyg13
09-22-2005, 11:24
North American Icon:
https://img385.imageshack.us/img385/6077/northamicon3hl.gif (https://imageshack.us)

Roman Empire Icon:
https://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5253/romansymbol6fa.gif (https://imageshack.us)

dont like them I'll scrap them :)

Lonely Soldier
09-23-2005, 01:40
richyg13 -

The Americas: - 5 factions
The Meso-American Empire - Confirmed!
The Inca Empire - Confirmed!
The North-American Tribes - Apache, Iroquois and Crow (so the icon you have for them is very appropriate). - not yet confirmed, may be too difficult to come up with enough units... but I s'pose the barbarians in Rome are pretty interchangeable.

Europe: - 6 Factions
Franks, Germans and Britons - what do you think?
Rome - Must have so Confirmed! - I like the Icon by the way! Could we make the gold a little richer?
Slavic States - Confirmed!
Hellas - the Greeks, or rather the heavily Greek influenced Eastern Roman Empire, they will be independant and in control of everything west of the Italic peninsula pretty much.

Asia - 6/7
The Chinese Kingdoms - Ok so theres a senate plus one other faction? or should we have more? - seeing we're going to be releasing this after the expansion (which doesn't require a Senate) we may be able to have only one faction here. But the Chinese were very advanced technologically, much more so than Europe, so we might need to limit their initial expansion some what.
The Japanese - Confirmed!
Champa Empire - Errr i think we could actually make these rebels to be honest but still make units for them. - whatever's easiest really, but I do like their architectural style etc. somewhere between Indian and Chinese.
The Gupta Empire (India) - Yeh Big influencal nation so Confirmed!
The Polynesians - I know its not realy asia but this lot are realy out on a limb so should we bother? - hmmm, maybe rebels for them too then, I would like to see the Brits facing off against a Maori army at some stage though ~:) .
The Mongols ~:confused:

Total Playable Factions - 17/18 (19 possible)
plus the Senate

One thing I should point out is that the expansion will allow for factions to emerge when certain parameters are met - I think that's how the Romano-Britons will appear - so maybe we could have some factions work like that - though I don't think they could be playable.

Also, regarding the interface graphics, the expansion allows for multple HUD styles!

richyg13
09-23-2005, 02:47
looks like i need to splash out and get the expansion then :P im sure its worth it. Im just strapped for cash at the moment, just came out of debt today! whoo lol. I kinda smashed my ex's front door window the other day so ive got a bill for £210 to pay, whoops lol.

I like the Britons, Franks and Germans Split :)
China as one is fine with me, you can limit their expansion by making the surrounding rebel provinces very hard to capture.
3 North American Tribes cool with me, icon ive made can be used for the Crow. (the 5 barbarian factions for vinilla can be used for all the american factions - I've done Gaul and Maya and Britons as Inca at the moment)
I understand Hellas now and thats good in my books.
Champa, yeh I'll give you it, gives good threat to the chinese and indians early on.
I realy dnt like the idea of polynesians, i can still make the units for them tho if it comes to it so we could make "Historial Battles" for the mod featuring these.

For clarification I'll make all interface graphics to fit these here named factions. I wont work on the HUDs til i have the expansion.

If the expansion allows for more than 19 factions then maybe we can have emerging factions.

Lonely Soldier
09-23-2005, 07:25
richyg13 - Sounds good ~:) ! I'll be happy enough if the Polynesians make it in only as rebels, they never really made concerted attempts at conquest anyway.

richyg13
09-23-2005, 13:28
ok I've updated the site that i was making, it now has a progress chart and ive done descriptions for all the factions that we've announced so far.

http://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/

Note ive put in units we havnt discussed, these are my own ideas and it makes the sire look a bit more fulfulling. Any additions/removals just say and i can do it within a few minutes. I'm going to try and get more faction icons done this afternoon.
A bit of good news too, I'm going to have to learn how to use Maya for this course im starting in uni next week so i should be able to model something in about 3 months time. It also means i get a free copy of Maya :D im not sure if theres a DDS plugin available for it however so I'll have to find a way to get them into 3DSMax if i can.

Looking too, we can use the same unit/model for all the north american factions for most of their units meaning our unit/model count will come down alot there :)

Also i worked out i should be able to afford the expansion for when it comes out next week as long i dnt go boozing at all this week :) its only £15 on play.com

richyg13
09-23-2005, 23:04
More Faction Symbols

http://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/pics/factionicons/germanicon.gifhttp://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/pics/factionicons/britishicon.gifhttp://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/pics/factionicons/frenchicon.gifhttp://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/pics/factionicons/iriqicon.gifhttp://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/pics/factionicons/apacheicon.gif

German, British, French, Iroqious and Apache Symbols respectivly.

richyg13
09-24-2005, 00:05
Mayan Bowman
https://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7792/largebowman5hk.gif (https://imageshack.us)

some more eye candy i guess :P not much work involved here since i just copied the same skin from the spearmen, seemed to have cleaned up the shading a bit and its looking realy nifty :)

I may try to completly replace the gauls with the meso-americans now so you can see how they play in the campaign. Granted the buildings are wrong but thats not important yet.

Just thinking, we aint heard from Irish_Own for a long time, he still working on the map??

Lonely Soldier
09-24-2005, 00:42
richyg13 - Nice bowman! I'm afraid the faction icons aren't showing up again... but I can see them on the site. I think they are a little too modern, so I'll have a scout around for something a little older, while still being identifiable. I'm not sure what's happening with Irish_own... He said he had nearly done all the land masses, though without the map heights. Its really :furious3: me off! I'll advertise for a mapper at the ModDb in a few days if nothing happens.

richyg13
09-24-2005, 00:53
They work if you right-click and press show picture.

i choose them cus i couldnt find anything truly fitting for these nations, plus if you think about it these are the nations they will develop into by the end of the game so they could still be worth keeping, up to you tho, they dont take very long to make.
I just made the Inca's Unit Banners too using the same symbol as shown before.

Id like to annouce too that if there are any rookie skinners looking to learn id be happy to take them under my wing, the only way to learn is to try as i found out when i started (u'd laugh at my early skins :P), they can have a go at skinning some roman units for me since the models are already there except i want the colours slightly changed with the added task that we need an early spearman for the romans (no armour) used as a peasant in essence.

Lonely Soldier
09-24-2005, 02:30
richyg13 - I quite like the way you've made the three North American faction icons black and white - good symbols too - so they have continuity. I think the German Icon is good, largely because the black eagle is quite an antiquated looking design. Perhaps the Franks could have a similar tri-colour format but with a Fleur-de-lis in the centre? The Britons I'm still not sure of, though I get your point about that being what the faction ultimately becomes... I think we will need to decide if the Britons start with scotland and Ireland or not, perhaps, if they don't, we should use the red cross on the white background..?

I s'pose the main consideration with the icons' symbols is how long they were used. The current British flag is the product of a relatively recent union being formed with Scotland and Ireland, as you of course would know, so perhaps using the royal flag of one of the British dynasties would be good? Maybe the Tudor Rose?

At present though, I am very happy with the icons ~:) .

I looked at the units you've got for the factions. They look good to me! I think the Hellas should have some Naptha unit/s though. We could also consider putting Panzers on the German list. Also, it might be a good idea to look at some of the units in Napoleonic: TW as well to get some ideas for the Industrial Age/Age of Reason.

A faction I left off - The Sassanid Empire - VITAL


I found a possible faction icon for the Japanese: https://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3905/japanese20imperial2nx.jpg
Here's one for the Sassanids: http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/thumb_31286.jpg
one for the Gupta: http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/thumb_31285.jpg
and one for the Slavic States: http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/thumb_31284.jpg

richyg13
09-24-2005, 11:58
Thanks for complimenting my work :P

Yeh i personally like that myself... I'll make the German unit banners either brown or yellow with that eagle in the middle.

I think with the scale of the world we wont be able to seperate Scotland from the rest of britain from the rest of the world but we wont know til the map is made. I would prefer it to be a unified flag cus otherwise your making the english (im not english by the way, im very much welsh and theres a big difference) Ireland can be made a seperate region i think :). I like the idea of the tudor rose tho.

can you find me an image for the Fleur-de-lis?

I'll add Naptha Weapons to the Hellastanic Empire, Infantry maybe some kinda Naptha encased shell for a Cannon?

by Panzers you mean their Tanks of WW1 and 2? I havnt put listings in for the modern ages yet realy, only got as far putting a few renaisance units in which ive marked being not in out first release.

At what kinda dates do you propose the Industrial Age and Age of Reason to begin? gives me a guide to what weapons are used (i know my history as you get into these ages).

The images you've provided are realy useful so I'll put them to use tonight when i get home (Swans are playing Notts Forrest this afternoon and the stadium is sold out :)).

Can you give me some background on what the Sassanid Empire are? region, culture, units etc.

I was looking too, i think we have room to add another influencial faction to the game too, the spanish, could realy have the spanish conquest of the mayans then. they can share alot of units with european factions so they wont exceed the model unit.

richyg13
09-24-2005, 22:36
Japanese, Sassanid, Gupta and Slavic Faction Icons have been added to the site for your viewing.

I've made shading improvements to the Alliance Warriors and Mayan Spearmen, they're looking quite a bit better now.

Lonely Soldier
09-25-2005, 03:18
richyg13 - Good to hear about the shading stuff ~:) . I like the Slavic icon! The Japanese one I think is good in green, I never would've thought to have it any other colour than red, but I prefer it green!

The Sassanid Empire emerged around 400CE along the Tigris-Euphrates and the Caspian Sea coast, eventually expanding into modern Turkey etc. so roughly where the Parthians and the Seleucids are in R:TW. They were also quite close to the Indians so we should get some interesting conflict there! They will essentially become the Ottoman Turks and Arabs, though for the mod they will be united.

Here's a Fleur-de-lis (it was used as a royal symbol in France for a long time): http://www.embroiderysa.co.za/raggsenrich/images/Free_Fleur-de-lis.jpg feel free to do an image search for other versions.

Also, the expansion is going to have more than a hundred new units, so there are going to be some more models to play with.

The city limit is unlikely to change, as the expansion is going to have fewer settlements than Rome. I think Rome's limit is 300 or so. The good thing about the Earth's cities is that there are vast areas with no habitation, so I think even mainland Britain will be divisible 2 or three times, so Wales might even get to be its own province!

Yes, by panzers I do mean the tanks of the two World Wars, though of course other nations will have tanks.

The Age of Reason begins at the end of the Renaissance, and we may just remove it as it was quite short... I'll give you the dates soon (I don't have them to hand.) It was the era when the Parliamentarians and the Royalists fought in Britain I believe ~:confused: .

snevets
09-25-2005, 04:29
I don't understand how this mod works. RTW doesn't have technological advances, accept for the marian reforms. These are hardcoded. Basically the only modding you can do to RTW is graphic, and basic text editing. You guys are trying to make a whole new game. Honestly im sorry but I don't think this is at all possible. You're moving along making units, but I don't understand the point.

Lonely Soldier
09-25-2005, 04:56
snevets - well, whether we use the Marian system or a simple building related advance system, I think it'll be OK especially with the extra functionality of the expansion. If I'm honest I'd be satisfied with simply having started and worked on something original, instead of a rank and file mod, like the infinite RTR clones out there.

Comrade Alexeo
09-25-2005, 05:10
If I'm honest I'd be satisfied with simply having started and worked on something original, instead of a rank and file mod, like the infinite RTR clones out there.

Amen to that :)

Lonely Soldier
09-25-2005, 05:56
Comrade Alexeo - ~:cheers:

RichyG13 - I think I will add the Spanish, it'd be kinda dumb not to after all that talk of the Mesoamericans winning battles against them!

Here's the Spanish flag to base their icon on: http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/water_31321.jpg

I also found this picture for the Chinese Icon, but I would put some more colour in... probably a yellow dragon on red or vice-versa. Here it is: http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/water_31322.gif
Maybe you could make one of each? In a way the yellow on red would make more sense (the Emperor was the only person allowed to use yellow, and the Chinese people identify themselves with the colour red), but it might not look as good that way.

I had a look for an icon for the Champa Empire, and I reckon the Cambodian State Flag is good (do a google image search for it or ask me to post) as its got the angkor ruins in silhouette on it, though the colours might need to change... perhaps we could have the ruin motif in black on a gold background?

The only thing I would suggest with the icons, namely the Japanese, German, Frankish and British ones, is to make them slightly glossier, like the Mesoamerican one. The others are all great, I especially like the Slavic one, you have brought out the richness of that red very well so it looks different enough to the Roman red.

richyg13
09-25-2005, 11:45
@snevets
I think Lonely summed it up as this being some different. I'm happy that we're trying to do something different. I've looked at your mod a few times and your art work is good i must admit but all your doing is providing a new part of the roman era, im not saying i dont think this is good but I think you should give your support where its due.

We're not the only one wanting to use an advancement system cus from what ive seen the Medieval mod ive seen wants to advance through the 3 ages from Rome's prequel.

@Comrade Alexeo
Thanks for the support, if you want to beta-test for us in the future then just keep an eye out here :)

@Lonely Soldier
Right I'll redo the french symbol, the fleur-de-lis on a blue background. I havnt tried to make alot of these symbols "glossy" yet cus thats the bit that takes time, on some it seems to come natural.

I'll add the spanish and a unit list for them to the site later today as well as make their symbol.
I'm redoing the units screen for all factions so that'll look very different when u see it next plus ive started to write a timeline progression page for each faction, which shows what units are available in each era and what they replace and get replaced by (if anything).

Can i suggest changing the Age of Reason to the Imperial Age then?? this would cover Napolean's era and that. gives a transition from Gunpowder to Rifles. Industrial Age then covers WW1 and 2, Information is modern day.

I'll make a start on introducing the Sassanids to the site too then if i can come up with some units.

I have made myself a campaign map using the default imperial campaign and just convert all the factions to ours using our units. I realy want that mapper! :P

richyg13
09-25-2005, 14:41
Right since some people dont believe :P ive done some research. its a rather crude way of getting it to work but we can create a technology advance system using a script (its gna take me fecking ages mind lol). Scripts allow buildings to be force built at given dates, granted this doesnt allow for true advancement alone but i believe i can convert this to use a tech points system which increases every turn, when you reach a given level you advance to the next age. The only thing im contemplating an issue with is how to determin how many points per turn you get, something to do with the number of cities i suppose, id have to look into using global parameters.

richyg13
09-26-2005, 00:09
Updates today (they can be viewed on the site):
- did more of the roman interface
- did the roman banner
- roman hastati complete to V1.0
- roman triarii complete to V1.0
- new french faction symbol

site updates:
- french units list
- romans unit list
- mayan tech-tree

aint had chance to add spanish or chinese faction symbols im sorry.

I've come up with an industrial age standard units list.
we may have to divide it into 2 im not sure.
basically each factions needs -
- Rifle Infantry Squad
- Assault Infantry Squad
- Tank Hunter Squad
- AT Gun
- Infantry Gun
- Howitzer Section
- Mortar Section
- Heavy Machine Gun
- Light Tank
- Medium Tank
- Heavy Tank (not realy needed for all)
- Assault Gun
- Tank-Hunter Tank

Faction Specific Additional Units i can think of off-hand
Germans -
- Panzer VI
- Tiger
- MG42
- Pak 40mm AT Gun

British -
- Churchill
- Vickers .303 MG
- SAS Team (instead of Tank Hunters?)
- 3inch Mortars

North American Factions (US Army units) -
- M4 Sherman
- T10 Tank Hunter
- .50cal Browning MG
- 60mm Mortars

Slavic States (Russians) -
- T-34
- K-2
- Anti-Tank Rifles
- Maxim-Machinegun

I need to look up French and Italian stuff, can also get details for China, Japan and India quite easy.

Lonely Soldier
09-26-2005, 07:05
richyg13 - Your a machine! The Sassanids, for the medieval age, can basically use the units that the Almohads, Turks and Egyptians have in M:TW. The expansion has the right era of the Sassanids for the first few ages already, we'll just need to tone down their skins.

Those later units look good! The symbols are fine as they are, the gloss is a luxury really. I like your idea of progressing with Technology points! Age of Empires III works a little bit like that. And there's probably some way to get the game to display an info box when you do gain the next advance too.

richyg13
09-26-2005, 08:21
yes i read that that sassanids are in friday's release (im ordering that later). I wont get to making any units for them until after the expansion ill. I'll have to .zip everything thursday to make sure all additions ive made dont get erased by the expansions install.
I took an idea too for the unit info cards out of Total War: The Middle Ages mod. He is using full screens for his unit info cards so im implementing the same idea with eventually a facy border around the image. Theres no messy erasing to do then. Take a look at that mod too, hes an exceptional 2d artist, looks pretty good at 3d work too.
- Total War: The Middle Ages (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54437)

I've got a busy day ahead of me today, need to go enroll for uni (thats gna take a while, my friend picking me up at 10) plus need to go to bank and transfer some money grrrrr.
Hopefully i should be able to work on something tonight.

The gloss effects will come i promise :) its just not a priority right now. Oh, for some fun factor, come up with some things you'd like to see on the loading screens.

Lonely Soldier
09-26-2005, 11:39
RichyG13 - I do like that style, as its something new. The archers themselves look good too! I like how the bow is so straight (I've always been keen on long bows, but their hard to come by, and illegal, in Australia) showing just how hard the pull is. The good thing, as you mentioned, is the ability to apply borders, which could obviously be faction specific.

I also thought of a special unit the Sassanids could have (exclusive to Arabia province): there is a special camel based police force which patrols the border of the United Arab Emirates. It was founded by Laurence of Arabia, so they could have those after the Industrial Age ~:) .

I think the loading screens should be of a consistent style, as R:TW's are, so, bearing that in mind, we could have pictures of the different cities, armies fighting, all sorts of stuff. We could also doctor some photos of real places, like Macchu Pichu, Teotihuacan, various castles etc. making the edges a little pixelly or something to make them look like the in-game graphics.

The expansion should provide us with basically all we need to make the first few eras for the Europeans thankfully, but I can see the influence of Sega creeping in with those lurid skins, we can just tone 'em down and make them more mild (and therefore realistic) for AoM.

Something for the Mongolian faction icon: http://www.sulinet.hu/tovabbtan/felveteli/2001/8het/tori/mongol.jpg
We could either isolate one of the horsemen on a coloured background or use a part of the whole image but make it look a little more convex for the icon.

Sassanid Empire Description (for the site):
The Sassanid Empire rose to power along the Tigris-Euphrates and the coast of the Caspian Sea, eventually spreading down into the deserts of Arabia and to the west as far as Turkey. The majority of their soldiers are lightly armoured, the Sassanids relying on skilled archers to wear down the enemy, sending in light foot soldiers to mop up. Later, they will develop advanced steel working techniques, far surpassing those of the Europeans. The Sassanid lands will later bring forth Islam.

Spanish Description:
The people of the Iberian peninsula will eventually come to be known as Spaniards. Historically, they were heavily influenced by Celtic culture, then by Roman control, and later by invading Arab forces which had conquered north Africa. The Spanish have always absorbed the best of their invaders' cultures, and so will become one of the great powers of Europe: Toledo will become a swordsman's object of pilgrimage for its un-rivalled weaponsmiths.

richyg13
09-26-2005, 21:16
Yeh my plan was indeed to have faction specific borders. You know im kinda scared cus its actually leagal to shoot a welshman with a longbow within the county of nottinghamshire lol.

kwl ill add the camel riders as well as some other units than come to mind such as Ottoman Infantry, i loved them in Cossacks.
I'll update the site laterz with the faction descriptions too.

Yeh the loading screens you suggest are a good plan, ill try it out soon.

I can indeed carve out a horseman here and create siluette (spelt wrong) on a yellow/gold background.

As for the toning down, im going to minimize the amount of faction colour they have eg. brown leggings, leather armour has no colour (made brown). Shields and tunics can have an element of colour, i think the northern european tunics may become mainly brown too tho i think.

Lonely Soldier
09-26-2005, 22:42
richyg13 - The toning down I think will work well, obviously some factions/units will have bright colours, though these should not be as bright as they are in Barbarian Invasion ~:eek: , most Roman units will probably wear a lot of red and knights and so on will have bright coats of arms and things.

snevets
09-27-2005, 01:59
Don't take me wrong. I think this is a very interesting mod, my question was purely a technical one, as in, how are you going to do it? Specifically, are you going to have planes and such in the mod? The only way I can think of you completing this mod is to have multiple campaigns (unless you plan to somehow add new buildings only constructable after a certain date or the marian reform trigger.

Sorry I don't understand your comment about giving support where its due, are you talking about your mod or mine?

richyg13
09-27-2005, 09:11
@snevets
its where you say "I dont see the point", its rly hard to hear some1 say that when u've done alot of work. so just give us a little support, think about the fact we're trying. I have a post made stating how i think it can be done.

Planes as concerns being on the battlemap i dnt think is possible, my alternative was to have them as strategic peices on the battle map, bombers namely, when they are ordered to "attack" an enemy then they cause variable/random damage to all units in the army, somehow giving a random chance to destroy buildings and reduce population.
I want a way of doing paratroopers, will have to work like boats somehow that allow you to travel over land. Alot of this is speculation and things that will be worked on over time. Obviously, off-map artillery is another feature to try and work on.

We'll see how this goes.

And so you know im genuine about being fair and supportive, I am looking forward to playing your mod too. Mods keep games alive, so keep up the good work and give us something we can all enjoy ~;) ~:cheers:

Lonely Soldier
09-27-2005, 11:09
snevets - No hard feelings ~:grouphug: .

richyg13 - I like your plan for Planes etc. and I heartily agree that mods keep games alive! Paratroops would be cool too!

richyg13
09-27-2005, 13:21
French Spearmen:
https://img386.imageshack.us/img386/1767/spearmen3sm.gif (https://imageshack.us)

The German and British will have the same unit with a different shield and different hair colour.
Could use this unit for the Slavs too. Cuts down on model count.

Summary of Units to Date:
- Inca
-- Spearmen
-- Slingers
-- Amazonian Archers
- Maya
-- Spearmen
-- Alliance Warriors
-- Bowmen
-- Spearthrowers
-- Trunk Cannon
- Rome
-- Hastati
-- Triarii
- France
-- Spearmen

Since we have the lack of a mapper i think a european demo maybe an option to give a good look on the mod as its going (i know the mayans and inca wont be present but they still be there for custom battles and multiplayer) even if its only the Iron and Steel Ages that can be played.

richyg13
09-27-2005, 17:21
Had an idea for an emerging faction. If a european faction holds the province of "Washington" or whatever we call it then the Independent Americans could emerge. Just a thought.

richyg13
09-27-2005, 21:29
British and German Spearmen:
https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1690/spearmen2tr.gif (https://imageshack.us)https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2575/spearmen4hb.gif (https://imageshack.us)

I want to make the archers but none of the models realy fit what i want them to look like. Dacian Archer looks too light (needs a shirt), Chosen Archers are too bulky and all the other archers dnt have leggings so kinda stuck for that :|

richyg13
09-28-2005, 00:19
I'm having trouble getting this model to work in game. its my attempt at getting a musketeer into the game so wondering if someone would have a lookat it for me?? ... its in both max and cas format (dunno if the cas will work as is)http://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/musketeer.zip

Lonely Soldier
09-28-2005, 04:39
richyg13 - I love those skins! The level of colour is just right for the rank-and-file troops! The idea for the emerging faction is also very attractive, though some would say the world would be better without the USA, I think it would be good to have them even if they weren't playable.

Here's the Champa icon idea: http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/thumb_31388.jpg

and here are two possibilities for the Hellenistic States' icon (not sure about the yellow though...): http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/water_31387.jpg
http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/water_31404.gif

richyg13
09-28-2005, 08:11
Champa symbol is pefect :) id go with the top one for hella, i can tone down that yellow. Haha, yeh know what u mean there bout the USA hehe, nah they're great people ... led by idiots :P joking.

I'm working today so no modding will get done today proabably, unless i can get something done tonight.

Oh, I also faced off the Spearmen againt each other, 1 unit on 1 unit and it lasted ages so i think the game balance is good, they were actually have melee fights one on one and stuff, looked awesome, especially since the colours were all dull and that.
I came up with a plan too, if i can get this muskteer to work it means i can transpose weapons between models, archer on that spearman model? :D minus the shield of course. U reckon Shifty will look at that model for me? i guess i should PM him.

great, got 9 hours of f***ing work now grrrr. its so boring but i need the money so badly, pays for great games like this tho :bow:
laterz all!

Lonely Soldier
09-28-2005, 08:48
richyg13 - yup, work sucks, money is good. Its the age old problem, we want the money, but the work takes away our time to use what we spend the money on :dizzy2: !

I can imagine how good they'd look fighting! The colours, as I say, are great. The last thing we want them to look like is extras from a colourised 30s movie. Glad to hear the balance was good. I think that model would be fine for the archers, with maybe a slightly modified arm texture for an arm gaurd?

richyg13
09-28-2005, 18:24
yeh arm guard sounds good, i think its possible to attach it to the model as an extra just like the quiver, that way it will be one arm only, otherwise you got the problem of it appearing on both arms cus the textures mirror.

Lonely Soldier
09-29-2005, 06:55
richyg13 - Sounds good! I've had a potential offer of a mapper from a Chivalry: TW team member (he says he might be able to help after their next release). I'll post a list of the factions' starting cities (3 or 4 each sound good? That's obviously just to start with!) in a little bit, as well as other cities we should include.

richyg13
09-29-2005, 07:57
I thought maybe it'd be a little more challanging if you made each faction start with one, some could have more if they start in infertile lands.

China - one or two east china provinces
Japan - could have both the north and south islands i guess (2 provinces)
Champa - starts in Korea?
Gupta - southern india province (plus on depending on fertilty ratings)
Mongols - near china (one or two)
Sassanid - start in turkey
Romans - Rome!
Hellastanic - greece or one of the greek provinces (not Troy!)
Slavic States - where modern Moscow is
Germans - where modern Berlin is
British - England (Wales and Scotland must be fought for)
Franks - where modern Paris is (normandy is controlled by the normans at the start of the game i reckon)
Spanish - northern spain (portugal plus 2 other provinces on the penisula can be captured)
Iroqoius - control area of east coat of NA
Apache - south west of NA, near mexico
Crow - north west coast of NA
Mayans - top of south america (dont start in mexico)
Inca - control Peru perhaps? not the amazon provinces

a little game feature i think would be cool, you start the game in the Iron age as an emerging leader. you have no children and no parents, the game dynamics should then create the children itself (you have a wife), the faction leader starts young (in 20's).

Europe needs to be divided up the most since its one of the most densley populated regions on the planet, china can be well divided up too.


Excellent news on the mapper. i take it he'll have a map for chivalry: total war too, is he going to make a complete world map or a european map?

Lonely Soldier
09-29-2005, 09:01
richyg13 - Re: mapper: he hasn't said he will do any yet, but when Chiv is released he said he could do something for us.


Europe needs to be divided up the most since its one of the most densley populated regions on the planet, china can be well divided up too.
Definitely!

In terms of dividing up the provinces (two-hundred is the limit I believe) we should decide (and maybe I'll post a poll) on whether we want inter-faction conflict from the start or not. Historically, the Eastern and Western Roman Empires were under quite heavy assault in 400CE, and I imagine the Mongols and Chinese weren't too friendly either. In fact the Byzantine empire was under pressure from the Germans and Sassanids. In some cases the factions should be surrounded by rebels, the Gupta for example. I posted a whole bunch of maps on the earlier pages showing the faction territories at around the right date, so I think we should stick with those wherever possible myself.

Provinces my recommendations:
China - Beijing, Shang-Hai etc. two or three in the east
Japan - could have both the north and south islands i guess (2 provinces) - I'm thinking Kyushu, Shikoku and the western half of Honshu (the main island) which would be ruled from Kyoto (which literally means Western Capital), so 3 provinces in my opinion. Rebels would hold the rest of Japan: Tokyo/Edo and Hokkaido. I also think Sado Island should be its own province (just for fun ~D )
Champa - starts in Korea (should be rebel)? Actually in modern Vietnam.
Gupta - southern india province (plus on depending on fertilty ratings) - I think more central India (as my map of the Gupta Empire in 400CE shows), rebels North and South.
Mongols - near china (one or two)
Sassanid - start in turkey - I was thinking Babylon or Arabia
Romans - Rome! - Plus Carthage, Syracuse and Tarentum I reckon, they should be strong!
Hellenistic - greece or one of the greek provinces (not Troy!) - No, certainly not Troy! As they are essentially the Byzantines, I think they should start with Constantinople/Byzantium, Athens, Sparta, Ancara (in modern Turkey), Jerusalem and Memphis. They should be stronger, at the beginning, than their Western cousins.
Slavic States - where modern Moscow is - sounds good
Germans - where modern Berlin is - sounds good
British - England (Wales and Scotland must be fought for) - sounds good
Franks - where modern Paris is (normandy is controlled by the normans at the start of the game i reckon) - sounds good
Spanish - northern spain (portugal plus 2 other provinces on the penisula can be captured) - sounds good
Iroqoius - control area of east coat of NA - sounds good
Apache - south west of NA, near mexico - sounds good
Crow - north west coast of NA - sounds good
Mayans - top of south america (dont start in mexico) - They did actually originate in Mexico though, well, on the Yucatan Peninsula actually, and the Maya were established for some time before 400CE.
Inca - control Peru perhaps? not the amazon provinces - sounds good

richyg13
09-29-2005, 16:35
I got BI! hehe

its realy gonna help the mod, its got crossbowmen for a start, something we forgot to add to the lists for many factions :P and a new chariot balista, perfect model for our future tanks :D

all in all ive got to convert our mod to be bi friendly now, something thats gna take much of this afternoon up. I'll get what i can in soon.

Sykotyk Rampage
09-29-2005, 17:51
Hi

Where are you at for a working map? Are you looking for a map of the world? I am at the beginning of putting one together for Barbarian Invasion for a personal mod I am slowly getting together - will be a little faster when I am done working on Blue Lotus.
This is what I put together last night, so it is still a mess but it works in game -for Rome- when I get BI tommorrow it will be transfered over to BI.

PM me.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sykotykrampage/europe.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sykotykrampage/heightdesaturated.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sykotykrampage/northamericaelbowtree.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sykotykrampage/regionsnew.jpg

SKR

Helgi
09-29-2005, 18:50
"Faction Specific Additional Units i can think of off-hand
Germans -
- Panzer VI
- Tiger
- MG42
- Pak 40mm AT Gun

British -
- Churchill
- Vickers .303 MG
- SAS Team (instead of Tank Hunters?)
- 3inch Mortars

North American Factions (US Army units) -
- M4 Sherman
- T10 Tank Hunter
- .50cal Browning MG
- 60mm Mortars"

Since you have the SAS, as a Faction Specific unit, will the SS and the Rangers
be as such?

richyg13
09-29-2005, 19:02
@Helgi
Having the SS and Rangers are both feasible options to add, it depends on unit count at the end of the day.
Just an additional idea for all faction will be partisans, useful as a rebel/merc/peasant unit.

@Sykotyk Rampage
We dont have a map :P in fact, we need a mapper! period!!!! :P
ive been begging Lonely Soldier to get one after our last one disappeared on us, if you wish to come aboard as the mapper ur more than welcome :) I'm doing all the strat map graphics once ive got at least one iron age unit available to all factions.

Helgi
09-30-2005, 18:05
@Richyg13
"Just an additional idea for all faction will be partisans, useful as a rebel/merc/peasant unit".
That would make sense, The Lordz in NTW 1 have a miltia & rebel unit to replace the peasant unit; so it would make sense to create a partisan unit to fill that role.

richyg13
09-30-2005, 18:43
@Helgi
Yeh we will need to have militia for our Gunpowder,Renaisance and Imperial Ages, probably generic for each region (Europe, Asia, North America, South America).

@Lonely Soldier
ok BI have two features we can take advantage of.
1) religion - you said you wanted religions, well there are 3 in the game we can mod for our use, i think having 3 is hard-coded.

2) culture - there are 6 cultures and they are not hard coded to a faction :D we can use these to define regions, ill leave you decide who goes into what region, just remember that architecture, portraits, interfaces, voices etc. are linked to culture.


Sykotyk Rampage has contected me via PM too, he will give us his tgas for making a campaign once he's completed them all. However, i have to re-map the regions and city locations myself.

On the unit progression note, the franks, germans, britons and romans now have archers, they're each at about 80-90% complete.
I've redone the british faction icon too, its now a white rose on a red background.

also a summary of faction replacement so far with the colours ive used...
goths = germans (Balck and Yellow)
franks = franks (Blue and White)
romano british = britons (Red and White)
west empire = romans (Red and Gold)
sassanids = sassanids (not decided - default for now)

Lonely Soldier
10-01-2005, 00:08
richyg13 - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 ~:) ~D ~:eek: :duel: ~:cheers: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My God! So much progress!!!! Unit ideas and everything!! But above all: A MAP!!!

With just a bit of polish we could release it with all the current faction work as a teaser!

FANTASTIC ~D !!!

Just one query. Is the map any larger than the original? If not we could scale it up a little (the RTR map is about 50% bigger I think.

Glad to hear about the features in the expansion! I'd better get it myself!

I think three religions is probably enough... We'll see how we go. We definitely need Christianity and probably Islam.

richyg13
10-01-2005, 00:19
apparently its huge... well you can see above from those images the scale, britain is small, very small, well actually in the real world britain is small compared to much of the world. He hasnt used the full range of regions there, i can increase those for our personal use. I know how to code the descr_strat.txt too so that will help alot. Currently im working on a European teaser map using the packaged BI map and just relocating the factions and giving them our units.

to come back to one of my points, how u want to go about the 6 cultures? its easy to set them to a culture, its one line in the descr_sm_factions.txt where the colours are all set etc.

P.S. like the new sig idea? i can make them for all factions already started.

Lonely Soldier
10-01-2005, 00:31
richyg13 - I do like the sigs, it'd be great for fans to be able to have the banner for their favourite faction!

I'll think about the cultures thing a bit and get back to you.

richyg13
10-01-2005, 00:40
got bored so i made the chinese faction symbol

https://img321.imageshack.us/img321/9166/chinaicon3cv.gif (https://imageshack.us)

its not as good as id like so it will be replaced/upgraded.

Lonely Soldier
10-01-2005, 00:47
richyg13 - Looks good for now, I can see the potential!

Bishop Six
10-01-2005, 02:32
A lot of activity in here lately. Nice sigs and faction icons, Richy!

Lonely Soldier
10-01-2005, 05:38
Bishop Six - Indeed!

Culture Seperations: - First Draft

East Asian -

Japanese, Chinese

Central Asian -

Gupta Empire, Champa Emprire, Sassanid Empire

European -

Britons, Germans, Franks, Slavic States, Spanish

Graeco-Roman -

Roman Empire, Hellenistic States (maybe Europeans too?)

Nomadic -

Mongols, Apache, Iroquois, Crow

South American -

Inca Empire, Mesoamerican Alliance

richyg13
10-01-2005, 10:50
Nice draft, i think i can go with that so I'll allocate those this afternoon.

according to my calculations we have scope for an additional 2 factions (there are also 2 hidden factions but i dont know how to work with them).

If you want your favoured faction sig made just give me a shout.
also ive made a mod team page, if you want to disclose your information then post here or PM me (ie. Real Name, Age and Location) otherwise it will remain undisclosed.

My aim today is to get some greeks/hellastanics into the game as well as finish off alot of interface stuff, including the unit banners.

Also, i experimented with some game balancing, in the open field the romans win battles very easy unless they get broken up. They, however, struggle against castle defenders so it means defending castles for the europeans gives great advantages.

richyg13
10-02-2005, 00:11
Hellastanic Archers and Hoplites
https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2231/archers0lo.gif (https://imageshack.us)https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1377/hoplites7sz.gif (https://imageshack.us)

unfortuantly this is all ive managed today cus i forgot i was going to watch the swans play (we won 3-2 ~:) ).

I have started to get that musketeer in game but the gun is suffering from some texture issues at the moment but it IS working :) meaning i should be able to get us some simple models done, but i am a very poor modeller :P

I got work tomoz, so very little will get done but I'll do what i can in the evening.

Lonely Soldier
10-02-2005, 07:31
richyg13 - Those Hellenistic units look great! Perhaps the Hoplite could have the Eagle on his shield? Or the P?

If you make more of the sigs, along the lines you've started with, I'll start posting 'em on the ModDb and the other sites!

Oh, and Richy, I found this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54858) on the editing involved in adding a new religion in BI, I'm not sure if this means we can have more than three, but here's hoping!

I also found this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=42918) (though the techniques may have changed for BI) on creating unique interfaces for each culture!

richyg13
10-02-2005, 09:45
Browsing that religion thread and lookign at the screns it seems possible to add as many religions as we like! :D a great advantage to our mod i think :D will take some time to code them all tho i think but indeed possible.

The Eagle on the shields will not be possible but i can get the cross on there without the P, its a matter of how the textures are overlapped.

I got work now so I'll see what i can do tonight.

Lonely Soldier
10-03-2005, 06:38
RichyG13 - Two hidden factions you say? Perhaps one should be a second Chinese faction? I'll post a map and some info explaining in a while, as well as some other maps for different regions, but I'm a tad busy at the moment ~:) .

I'll also post around some request threads for a modeller.

richyg13
10-03-2005, 07:43
I understand the busyness :P cus im in the same boat :P i didnt get anything done yesterday im sorry but i did find the interface grapjics and had a browse on how they are edited. looks simple enough.

2nd chinese faction is possible, plus maybe a combined Austro/Polish/Hungarian faction?
- Austria were important during the napoleonic period (our imperial age), Poland and Hungary were important in the Medival age.
or Egypt perhaps?
or Carthage?
sorry im very europe fixated :P

ok got uni now, ill be back late tonight. im learning how to model there :D

Lonely Soldier
10-03-2005, 07:56
richyg13 -
im learning how to model there :D Yay :balloon2: !
I've posted in the requests thread here for modellers and skinners (I reckon one of each for each region could be good) and I've said about how you wouldn't mind helping some beginners.

By the way, are you going to be able to tidy up that map a little yourself or should I get someone to help us out? Its fine either way for me.

Historically Carthage and Egypt were provinces of one or other of the Roman Empires, but China was actually split into two kingdoms in 400. I like the idea of the Austro-Hungarian/Polish faction though, maybe we could have both?

I thought I should give the diplomatic information for all the factions at the start:
Allies:
China and Japan?
Rome and Hellenistic States
Germans and Austro-Hungarians?

Enemies:
Rome and Hellenistic States and Germans, Franks, Britons

Neutral:
The rest of 'em

richyg13
10-03-2005, 19:19
a second chinese faction is easy enough, unit/model count doesnt increase cus of the same units being commonly used. I rly like the idea of either a austro-hungarian or even including polish in with them, its rly down to what u and others think would be coolest... we could well leave them out and add them as expansions? gives us scope to add to the mod in the future.

The mapping i can sort out, it isnt too difficult, i need some1, however, to assist in effects coding or a moddler who can code effects cus we need explosions, musket/connon fire etc... i have had a half offer from my bro saying he'll help out do the modern and future eras but he has no interest in these early eras (he can model weapons to exceptional detail).

what start date do you rly want for this mod? cus it kinda decides to initial diplomacy, i wouldnt mind leaving all factions neutral personally as a way of allowing the civ gameplay element.
we can however have starting diplomacies for the campaign versions that start at future dates (ie. start in the imperial age etc.)

Lonely Soldier
10-03-2005, 22:05
I'll try to find someone to do those effects (I've emailed you about that sort of thing a few moments ago actually), 'cos we really do need 'em.

The idea of updates is definitely attractive. It keeps people coming back!

I'm of the belief that the best start date is 400AD: The Roman Empire was about to fall (in 475 I think), the Gupta came to power, the Chinese were split, Japan had just been united by one ruler, the Maya were on the way up in the world, the Sassanids were coming to power etc. etc. etc. I'll need to examine the diplomatic side a little more perhaps, though I think the Romans and Hellas should be allied, otherwise they would both have far too much to worry about: three or four barbarian factions to the west and north and the Sassanids to the east!

This doesn't rule out multiple campaigns with different starting dates though! We could even have several regional campaigns perhaps simply using the units we will have made but with a different/more focussed campaign map.

I'll enquire about forum hosting here to try to get more publicity for us. We've done considerable work since I first asked. We've got, what, some twenty units, pretty much all the factions sorted out and now even a campaign map. What do you reckon? Of course the site would run in tandem, the forums would be about discussion and the site about final presentation. The other hosted mods have a fair whack of stuff now, but when most of them started out, they didn't have as much as we do.

richyg13
10-03-2005, 22:19
The diversity of this mod does allow for any focus we want but obv the aim is to create one giant campaign... thinking about it then i can rule out a few units i had planned for this campaign, allows for me to add more detail to the units in the later periods. I think it makes my Triarii and Hastati obsolete tho doesnt it? cus this is post reforms? if so ill make the Legionaires soon to replace them. Thinking about it too i need to make Medieval Archers to replace the basic Iron Age Archers.

400AD sounds good to me then. play 2000 years of history... 400 to 2400? or something like that.

dnt think your mail came thru tho man.

yeh if you can get us some forums it will allow for more public discussion.

Lonely Soldier
10-04-2005, 07:14
richyg13 - I'll ask Myrrddral if we can get hosting then.

No email huh... Oh well, I was basically just saying that we should focus on making any units which are specific to our mod, over ones we might be able to get from Napoleonic Total War etc.

Oh, on the site you know the World link? What were you planning to put there? I've got some maps which we could use to show the starting positions if you want 'em? Also, when we get the map to play with we can put up some screens of it (or at least our modified version of it) there.

Here's a map of China I found for the right time frame (5th century AD) it shows the two faction names I'd like to use as well: The Kingdom of Wei and the Kingdom of Qi. http://depts.washington.edu/chinaciv/1xardivi.jpg

richyg13
10-04-2005, 12:09
we will still need to produce alot of units for this era anyway, we will still need chinese, japanese, mayan, incan, north american etc. riflemen, the only ones we can take will be french, british, prussian (german), spanish, russian and austrian.


Oh, on the site you know the World link? What were you planning to put there? I've got some maps which we could use to show the starting positions if you want 'em? Also, when we get the map to play with we can put up some screens of it (or at least our modified version of it) there.
- yeh you've got it in one, thats basically the idea along with a description on the area.

I think the china split is well worth it, as it adds another force to the East and prevents the chinese dominating.

richyg13
10-04-2005, 14:22
read this thread, extremly useful if it can truly done...
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=943595&posted=1#post943595

Lonely Soldier
10-04-2005, 22:44
RichyG13 - I'll get those descriptions going and edit some maps to show the starting locations.

More cultures!!! That would be great, and the initial results do sound positive!


the only ones we can take will be french, british, prussian (german), spanish, russian and austrian. Yes those will be the only one's from Napoleonic, but I should have specified that we would haveother mod's models too, like Chivalry:TW and Zhanguo etc.

richyg13
10-04-2005, 23:21
The issue remains that we have to convince these mods to allow us to use their models (textures not so important, and it is unlikely they'll give us them before they release their own mods. meaning ur gna have to do some PR and see what they will give us, we're lucky with Sykotyk giving us a map (of course he gets full credit as he is the mod's mapper essentially since no one else will be working on it apart from myself but i dnt want to take credit for too much stuff.)

Bishop needs to come up with some conceptual designs for the america's higher ages since they never existed for them, the faces can be transposed from my existing units.

Essentially they need...

Medieval Age:
Swordsmen - well armoured, shield, good sword (attack), good charge
Spearmen - fair armour, shield, good defence skill (modded version of current units)
Archers good range, fair attack, unarmoured

Gunpowder Age:
Musketeers - slow reload time (30 to 60 seconds), poor melee, unarmoured
or
Aquebusiers - slowest reload time (45 to 60 seconds), not so poor melee, armoured, shorter range
Cannons - slow reload time (since its an early cannon anything up to 90 seconds), innacurate, low range (done for mayans)

Renaisance:
Pikemen - long pikes, good defence skill, unarmoured

Imperial Age:
Line Infantry - poor reload time (30 to 45 seconds), weak melee, unarmoured
Fusiliers - poor reload time (30 to 40 seconds), average melee, unarmoured, better shot
special type (like chasseur) - average reload time (20 to 40 seconds), weak melee, unarmoured, excellent shot
Artillery - poor reload time (30 to 45 seconds), longer range

All Infantry carry 30 shots, Cannons carry 20-25
Cavalry is perceptual since the americas dont have horses.

Lonely Soldier
10-05-2005, 05:44
RichyG13 - I'll have a scout around for some willing teams.

In regard to those units, I think we should have some factions which automatically lag behind somewhat. I'm just not sure if we need to produce equivalents for every faction. It was probably just a misunderstanding, but the idea of developing equivalents is still an interesting and valid one, and it may end up being what we do anyway! Either way, they are good ideas~:) .

richyg13
10-05-2005, 11:43
You cant have the other nations lag behind totally cus it will make the whole mod pointless, the idea being that these factions could have survived, they therefore need these units for completion.

im in uni now so ull get back onto more detail when im home.

Helgi
10-05-2005, 18:15
"special type (like chasseur) - average reload time (20 to 40 seconds), weak melee, unarmoured, excellent shot" With the British Green Jackets (Chosen Men) and the French Chasseur (this mostly applies to the Green Jackets though), each man was expected to fire off 3 shots in a minutes time and do it without a powder burn on their faces. I do agree with 20 seconds for such unit's but 40 secends for either unit would be unacceptable to both their Generals, CO's and Sgt's. 40 seconds is great for a Fusilier or Line Infantry, but not for a British Green Jacket (Chosen Man) and a French Chasseur.
:charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge:

richyg13
10-05-2005, 18:44
yes i did know that the green jackets were expected to get off 3 rounds a minute, i didnt know it applied to other army's equivelents, so yes in which case a 20 second reload time is good.

wether or not we have scope to add more special units to each faction i dont know at this stage but adding the option for British Light Infantry sounds cool as well as Highlanders and Irish Regiments. For the French they could do with having the Voltiger too.


I am correct in saying that the green jackets were primarilly skirmishers yes? if so then their unit size will be very low.

I dont know what the Prussian equivelant is cus i never realy researched much about the prussian army.

getting back to the equivlence talk tho, the 20 sec reload time for these units could be seen as a benefit these factions have over others. so the factions requiring equivelances could have longer reload times.

It would be nice to have grenadiers too but i dont its possible to simulate cus of Rome's 2 weapon system, grenadiers would require 3 (rifle, bayonet and grenades).

Lonely Soldier
10-05-2005, 22:09
richyg13 - I agree with you then, you've made a good case, and indeed reminded me of what I originally wanted. Sorry about being so pig-headed ~:) ! So, just to be clear on my position, equivalents = good, lag behind = bad.

That is very useful information on the reload times guys! And having different units (like certain elite regiments) with superior loading would be cool!

Region Descriptions

South America – The mighty Andes Mountains run north-south along the east Coast of this continent. This is where the Inca make their home, constructing roads and bridges through the treacherous height of the mountains and cutting massive terraces in which to grow maize, the region’s staple. In the west, the Amazon Jungle covers the vast expanse beyond the mountains, the Amazon River flows through this dense jungle, bringing forth a plethora of flora and fauna found nowhere else.

Mesoamerica – Mesoamerica joins the northern and southern Americas. Here in the humid rainforests the Maya, and many other tribes, have settled and prospered, drawing on the region’s fertility and abundant natural resources to sustain themselves.

North America – North America is a remarkably varied landmass, from rolling plains to towering mountains and lush forests, it is a land of diversity. In the south-west, desert dominates and in the near-constantly frozen north pine-forests spring up. In the east are the Iroquois, to the north the Crow and in the south are the Apache.

Europe – Europe’s fertile soil and agreeable climate have made it a hub of social development throughout history, particularly around the Mediterranean coast. Europe is a small area geographically, but is still highly varied: the heat of Italy and Greece is in stark contrast to the bitter cold of northern Europe and Britain. The Western Roman Empire and the Hellenistic world both began and live on here, while the barbarian tribes – Britons, Franks, Spaniards, Germans and Hungarians – hold back waiting for a time to strike.
Several of Europe’s landforms are ideal defensively: Italy is defended to the north by the Alps, Britannia by the Channel and the Black Sea by the Hellespont.

Oh, and some more units for a few of the armies (if you've already got something similar, just use that):

Rome - Patrician Knights (Medieval Age)

Franks - Pavise Crossbowmen (Medieval Age)
- Bombards (Gunpowder Age)
- Mortars (Gunpowder Age)

Slavic States - Just one swap: the Murabatin infantry and Sparabara should be Sassanid.

Japanese - Naginata Samurai (Medieval Age)
- Naginata Cavalry (Medieval Age)
- No-Dachi Samurai (Medieval Age)
- Cannon (Industrial Age)
- Imperial Riflemen (Industrial Age)
- Imperial Cavaliers (Industrial Age)

Also, if we need any more unit ideas for the Medieval Age in Europe, we could just use stuff from Medieval: TW in my opinion.

Helgi
10-05-2005, 22:59
"I am correct in saying that the green jackets were primarilly skirmishers yes? if so then their unit size will be very low"(richyg13)
Totally correct, they were scouts, & skirmishers. don't remember the size of the Green Jackets/Chosen Men. about the size of a company, I think?
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