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khelvan
04-30-2005, 07:45
Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!

As you know, leading up to the release of the open beta, we are highlighting a different faction every week. For those of you who are concerned: No, it will not take 20 weeks to release the beta. However, we cannot yet give you a definitive date. I will announce a release date to everyone when the team is ready to do so.

Please forgive the lack of attributions here; Prometheus and Adherbal worked on a good number of these, but this is a team effort. All of our artists are all very talented, and each artist will be properly recognized for contributions in our readme files. Also, please forgive both the unfinished look of some of the units, and the improper grammar/spelling - these are all considered WIPs. Today the focus is on the faction.

http://img252.echo.cx/img252/7213/carthage5shield12848248vr.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)http://img252.echo.cx/img252/8826/mapcarthage8zt.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

This week we are proud to present Tsorim: The people of Kart-Hadasht.

Some units in action:

http://img252.echo.cx/img252/5978/actiontsorimadvance5vw.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img252.echo.cx/img252/1402/actiontsorimunderfire4fn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img177.echo.cx/img177/73/actionforbaal1dc.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img177.echo.cx/img177/7185/actionhastatibiteit1lp.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img252.echo.cx/img252/7905/actionmilitiatriarii1ru.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img252.echo.cx/img252/2616/actionpoorequites8rh.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img252.echo.cx/img252/6371/actionpoorhastati29ar.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img252.echo.cx/img252/1803/actionpoorhastati7ri.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img252.echo.cx/img252/3228/actionprincipessurprise9io.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

(Unit camera shy!)
The Phoenician citizens of Carthage decided long ago that they were too few in number to make up a major part of the regular army of the city. Their wealth made it possible for them to hire vast amounts of mercenaries to fight for them. Because of this, most Carthaginian citizens only fight when there is a need for the defense of Carthage itself. When they do fight, they fight as a particularly well armored militia phalanx. They wear linen armor and attic style helmets, copied from the Greeks of Sicily. The Carthaginian citizens favor the light and handy ovular thureos shield instead of the large bronze hoplon. Still, they are militia, and should not be expected to hold crucial portions of the battle line for any significant amount of time. They are brave, but it is a bravery borne of desperation. They will not hold long if flanked or if hit with a better Phalanx.

Historically, a Carthaginian citizen phalanx was of poor quality. They lived pampered lifestyles in comparison to citizens of other nations, and their abilities reflect this. Carthage did not use citizens outside of elite military units unless there was a dire need to do so. They were used during the Roman invasion in the first Punic War and at the battle of Zama to little effect. Citizens who wished a martial career could join the cavalry or the Sacred Bands. There was little incentive for merchants to fight wars…

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/2180/unit8caetratii3am.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Iberians are famous the world over for their extremely versatile and excellent quality light infantry. Both the native Iberian chieftains and the Carthaginians take advantage of these falcata and buckler (caetra) armed men. They carry excellent quality swords and are armored with good bronze helmets and a bronze breastplate. These men are a step above normal light infantry, and they can be relied upon to defeat far more heavily armored opponents in battle. They are vulnerable in the extreme to cavalry though, due to their lack of armor and anti-cavalry weapons.


Historically, Iberian Caetratii were among the most feared opponents of the Romans. With their martial art of sword and buckler fighting they were excellent in single combat and were often able to ambush and kill Roman soldiers in this manner. In unit combat, they were almost as fierce, easily equaling the Roman Hastati. They were generally drawn from the poorer classes, since those who had more money would become Scutarii. Hannibal lavished upon his Caetratii, and many of them wore white linen tunics with a crimson border, whereas the poorer Iberian Caetratii wore off-white wool tunics.

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/7481/unit9scutarii0pp.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Iberian Scutarii are the rank and file heavy infantry of both Carthage and the Iberian tribes. They are armed with spears and two solifera. They wear good quality leather armor with a bronze disc (in the Gallic style) protecting their chest. The Scutarii carry an ovular shield, showing obvious Celtic influence. They also have good quality bronze helmets that protect them from the rigors of battle. When all this equipment is put together you are left with an extremely versatile and quick heavy infantry. The Scutarii fight in a densely packed formation, much like the Romans they most often fight. The Scutarii have the advantage of speed over their Roman enemy, an advantage that they exploit in the sort of hit and run warfare that characterizes the combat in the hills of the Iberian Peninsula. The only real difference between those in Carthaginian service and those in Iberian service is that Carthaginian commanders issue white tunics with crimson borders to differentiate them and make them appear uniform with the rest of a Carthaginian army.

Historically, the Scutarii were present at many major battles throughout the Punic wars and the guerilla campaigns in Iberia after the Carthaginian presence there was extinguished. They gave a good account of themselves and were much feared by their Roman enemy. The Romans incorporated the design of the javelins they used into their own pilum.

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/8571/unit10libyanspearmen9pw.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img260.echo.cx/img260/6949/unit12libyanheavyspear3yz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Due to the practical unwillingness of its citizen body to fight, the Carthaginians have trained and equipped these Libyan peasants to fight as reliable spearmen. In the early part of the third century, they were re-equipped to fight in the same manner as Greek Thureophoroi. They are armored with good linen, Thracian style helmets, and do not tire easily. They have sturdy spears and good javelins, but lack the élan and professionalism of the Greek Thureophoroi. Battle tested Libyans can prove themselves against the deadliest of foes, however. For all this, they are not a good match for heavier infantry or good heavy cavalry. They can be relied upon as good medium infantry, able to skirmish and fight with their spears to good effect.

Historically, Libyan spearmen were recruited by the Carthaginians in large numbers. They came from both client kingdoms under the proverbial Carthaginian thumb and the Libyan peasantry that worked Carthage’s fields. They were not particularly prone to rebellion and civil strife, but there are notable exceptions (after the first Punic War, for example). Carthage relied upon these men quite extensively, and they usually formed the backbone of the infantry when Carthage conducted campaigns in Africa.

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/6353/unit3lpinf1lk.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Liby-Phoenicians are a result of a mixing of Phoenician and Libyan races, and are the product of many a Phoenician lord ‘dallying’ with his peasants and slaves. There were a huge number of these half-breed men, so the Carthaginians used them in the army. They were armed and armored much the same as their Greek enemies on Sicily. They were armored in a linen cuirass, Thracian helmets, and bronze greaves. They have the traditional round shield of the Greek hoplite, but use longer spears with the underhand thrust, much like the reformed hoplites of the Greek mainland. They are a quality phalanx, able to stand up to both Romans and their Greek counterparts. They lack the heavy armor necessary to provide a huge amount of staying power on the battlefield against heavier infantry, however. This is a problem that led to the adoption of mail armor later.

Historically, the Liby-Phoenicians were present at every major battle of the Carthaginian wars. They gave good accounts of themselves against Romans, Libyans, Italians, Greeks, and Iberians. They were and are great phalanx spearmen, well able to stand up to most other regular infantry. They were later armored with captured or copied Roman style armor.

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/527/unit6lpheavyinf9gp.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Liby-Phoenicians are a result of a mixing of Phoenician and Libyan races, and are the product of many a Phoenician lord ‘dallying’ with his peasants and slaves. There were a huge number of these half-breed men, so the Carthaginians used them in the army. They were armed and armored much the same as their Greek enemies on Sicily. They were armored in a mail shirt, Thracian helmets, and bronze greaves. They have the traditional round shield of the Greek hoplite, but use longer spears with the underhand thrust, much like the reformed hoplites of the Greek mainland. They are a quality phalanx, able to stand up to both Romans and their Greek counterparts. These Liby-Phoenicians have been re-armed with mail shirts, allowing them to take a role as a heavy phalanx infantry. Additionally, their training has improved due to Greek advisors and better Phoenician commanders, so they are well able to double as sword-armed close combat infantry as well.

Historically, the Liby-Phoenicians were present at every major battle of the Carthaginian wars. They gave good accounts of themselves against Romans, Libyans, Italians, Greeks, and Iberians. They were and are great phalanx spearmen, well able to stand up to most other regular infantry. They were later armored with captured or copied Roman style armor.

http://users.skynet.be/Carthaginian/EB/eliteafr6.jpg
The elite African Infantry represent both an adaptation to Roman tactics, and a force of extremely well trained and motivated soldiers whose purpose is to fight as a tough and seasoned heavy infantry. They wield good Iberian short swords, carry Iberian Scuta, and wear Roman mail armor with greaves and bracers. They fight much like Roman legionaries, but with a level of Élan and discipline rarely seen in any army. They’re made up of tough Liby-Phoenicians or poor Carthaginian citizens who made a career for themselves in the Army. They’re extremely loyal and simply vicious in attack or defense. They are also experts at ambushing enemy soldiers. These men are at the top of their class, and can be relied upon in any situation. If they have one weakness it is the same as the Roman soldiers they most often fight, heavy cavalry.

Historically, these men were used to great effect in the momentous battle of Cannae. They surrounded and slaughtered the Roman soldiers in what is today recognized as the classic double envelopment. Without the tremendous skill and élan that these men were possessed of, it would simply have been impossible. Their heavy handed guerilla tactics proved to be a constant thorn in the Roman side. They were deserving of the moniker that Livy gave them: ‘The flower of the Carthaginian army’.

http://img177.echo.cx/img177/3425/unit5eliteafricaninf9hz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Elite African Pikemen are two things: an elite infantry of picked men and a reply to the Successor's tactics. Although recruited from the Carthaginian population to be part of their infantry, these men are the ones that distiguished themselves in battle in many occasions. As very experienced and prized veterans, they are supported by the state, and as such, have extremely good equipment. Like most of the Successor's battle line, they fight as Macedonian-style phalangites weilding the long sarissae. They are a nearly impervious wall from the front, and, although like any phalangite unit, vulnerable from the sides or back, can hold their own in closer combat due to their proficiency with swords. Even the heaviest cavalry is no match for the Elite African Pikeman as long as they’re presenting their spears in the direction of their attacker. Only a flanking maneuver by heavy cavalry or heavy infantry has a chance of breaking them in a melee.

Historically, together with the famed Elite African Infantry, these men were used to great effect in many important battles. Their imperviousness, esprit de corps and élan secured many times the Carthaginian line. Their rareness did not allow them to distinguish themselves in more situations against the Roman opponent. Had they been trained in greater quantities and used in a more frequent and supported role, history would, perhaps, say otherwise. In any event, they were deserving of the moniker that Livy gave to their bretheren: ‘The flower of the Carthaginian army’.

http://img177.echo.cx/img177/2003/unit2citizencav8qs.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Carthaginian citizens have a tradition of fine cavalry from the lower nobility, and these men are the embodiment of that tradition. They are good horsemen with good equipment, enough to put them on a par with most other medium cavalry. They are armed with a lance (a Greek xyston), which makes their charge deadly in the extreme. They are disciplined and have high morale, for they are fighting for their homeland. For all this, they cannot stand up against heavier cavalry or good spearmen for very long, due to their lack of a shield and their light linen armor. They are best used as a medium shock cavalry, and since their fast horses are crossbreeds of Iberian and Numidian breeds, they are able to run down most fleeing soldiers.

Historically, these men were of great use in the Mammertine War that followed the first Punic War. They were able to hold the flanks at tremendous odds. They were a well trained group of lancers who formed a reliable medium cavalry for the Carthaginian State.

http://img177.echo.cx/img177/5079/unit4sbinfantry3iy.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Sacred Band are an elite infantry of a different kind than the Elite Africans. Trained from a young age to be tough phalanx spearmen, these men are from wealthy Carthaginian families, and as such have extremely good equipment. They are trained from birth to be great warriors and they are able to afford high quality armor and weapons. They fight as a traditional Phalanx organized in the Spartan style. They are a nearly impervious wall from the front and are extremely hard to flank due to the fact that they are as proficient with their swords as with their spears. Even the heaviest cavalry is no match for the Sacred Band as long as they’re presenting their spears in the direction of their attacker. Only a flanking maneuver by heavy cavalry or heavy infantry has a chance of breaking them in a melee. They are good with their swords as well, often able to provide an elite assault infantry when required. They’re really too heavy for the role, but can excel as a shock infantry when needed.

The Sacred Band was a group of soldiers that were dedicated to Baal, the great father God of the Phoenician/Canaanite pantheon. They were all members of the nobility, and were called upon to fight their country’s wars as an elite unit that formed the right wing of the phalanx. They were all slaughtered in Sicily by the armies of Syracuse in the fifth century BC, but many records speak of an elite unit that fought on the right wing of the Phalanx long after their demise. Perhaps the Carthaginians simply did not wish to tempt fate with a name like the Sacred Band again…

http://img177.echo.cx/img177/5571/unit11sbcav6tq.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Sacred Band Cavalry are trained from birth to be a superb heavy cavalry force. Their superbly bred Iberian horses are barded with fine lacquered lamellar and are trained by the finest Iberian horse trainers. The men themselves are picked at birth from noble families to serve the priesthood of Astarte and are trained from the outset as horsemen. Their training and discipline is such that they can be included among the world’s finest heavy cavalry. Armed with finely forged lances and falcate swords they are nearly irresistible in the charge and versatile in melee, though not so versatile as the heavy Iberian cavalry. They usually do not use the shield in mounted combat, preferring to sling it over the shoulder and use both hands to manipulate their fearsome lance. Their lack of a shield is made up for by their superb training and fine lacquered steel breastplates, bracers and greaves. They fight with a level of élan and ferocity that is seldom matched, if ever.

Historically, these men served in small units during every one of Carthage’s major campaigns. They were kept out of the battle of Zama due to the machinations of the anti-Barcid party in the Senate. Had the thousand strong Sacred Band been present, the battle might have turned out very different…


Some surprises may be found in Carthaginian territory:

http://img228.echo.cx/img228/2101/balereasscreen19qn.th.jpg (http://img228.echo.cx/my.php?image=balereasscreen19qn.jpg)

Finally, Teleklos has put together some wallpaper as a little bonus for the fans:

http://img41.echo.cx/img41/13/carthagewallpaper16lj.th.jpg (http://img41.echo.cx/my.php?image=carthagewallpaper16lj.jpg)

We hope you enjoyed this week's preview and look forward to our faction showcase next week.

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our news posts are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and will do so long after our initial release.

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them would be here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Or here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us who provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

-the EB team

Big_John
04-30-2005, 08:31
well, i wanted iberians.. so this is almost as good. ~:)
love the new skins, especially the scutarii and sacred band cavalry! the diversity of units in the mods is going to be breathtaking..

i'm a bit confussed by something though, the picture you show for the elite african infantry (http://img177.echo.cx/img177/3425/unit5eliteafricaninf9hz.jpg) is nothing like what we've seen before (http://img115.exs.cx/img115/6581/eliteafr67sk.jpg). what happened? the description talks about scuta and short-swords, but it looks more like a phalanx unit. :help:

other than that it's all so beautiful. :bow:
great stuff.

khelvan
04-30-2005, 08:47
I made a mistake - I shall correct it.

Big_John
04-30-2005, 08:59
cool.. so, what is that phalanx-looking unit with the cool shield pattern then anyway??

Sheep
04-30-2005, 10:22
So I guess the Carthaginians will be making a lot of use out of the Marian reforms trigger, huh?

Going out on a limb here...

Libyan Spearmen --> Libyan Heavy Spearmen
Liby-Phoenician Infantry --> Lib-Pho Heavy Infantry
Elite African Pikemen --> Elite African Infantry

...after the Reforms trigger? Is that right?

Ergion
04-30-2005, 10:30
Greetings!

Only a sentence for EB team:

I love you.

Conqueror
04-30-2005, 11:22
Great looking models there, can't wait to see them in action ~:)

A question about the sacred band cavalry: they prefered to use their lances with both hands but the screenshots show them with shields equipped? Are you going to make them always use the shields or is there a way to make them switch between lance & shield and lance only (like primary/secondary weapon switch with Alt-attack)?

The Stranger
04-30-2005, 12:05
this is great

Proper Gander
04-30-2005, 12:31
no more praise from me! enough of that! get back to work instead of reading this post of mine!
:whip:

Alexander the Pretty Good
04-30-2005, 15:46
I'm still holding out for some pics with the new animations. But I should be patient. Looks very nice, and I have a new faction icon to put on those darn buttons.

You know, this is becoming one of the highlights of my week. :book:

Furious Mental
04-30-2005, 15:48
Awesome. Does Carthage have a reasonable amount of territory at the start of the game? I hate the fact that in RTW they always seem to get crushed by Spain, Numidia and Rome within about five minutes.

Moros
04-30-2005, 17:21
about the cyclopean monuments it says 2 times public order bounus due to happines and in the description it says rlations in stead of I guess relations (last readable line on the picture)

But its really looking good!

Teleklos Archelaou
04-30-2005, 18:30
about the cyclopean monuments it says 2 times public order bounus due to happines and in the description it says rlations in stead of I guess relations (last readable line on the picture)

But its really looking good!Actually, the bonuses it has listed there will not be the exact same ones in the game. That's why it looks a little strange. We still have not gone over all the descriptions for proofreading and editing, but thanks for catching the rlations thing though.

Prof
04-30-2005, 18:47
will there be elephants too?

Craterus
04-30-2005, 18:54
Why are they called Tsorim and not Carthage?
But the units look great! ~D ~:cool:

GoreBag
04-30-2005, 19:16
This is really cool stuff, but I couldn't help but think that the Caetratii's feet were comically large. Is it just me?

khelvan
04-30-2005, 19:18
Awesome. Does Carthage have a reasonable amount of territory at the start of the game?http://img252.echo.cx/img252/8826/mapcarthage8zt.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
~:handball:

Of course there will be elephants.

Tsorim is the Phoenician word for the people of Kart-Hadasht (Carthage).

Dooz
04-30-2005, 20:25
I'm almost afraid to ask this question... but here goes... khelvan, do you think you guys can release the game with the option of having unit, city, etc. names in English rather than the original language? I know it's supposed to be authentic and whatnot, but options are always better than no options, and I assume it would be relatively simple to implement this particular one.

Divinus Arma
04-30-2005, 20:45
EB:

One of the few reasons for me to return.

Great work. And outstanding fan support.

khelvan
04-30-2005, 21:13
I'm almost afraid to ask this question... but here goes... khelvan, do you think you guys can release the game with the option of having unit, city, etc. names in English rather than the original language? I know it's supposed to be authentic and whatnot, but options are always better than no options, and I assume it would be relatively simple to implement this particular one.I assume that if there is enough demand for it (about one out of every 20 comments I get about this are "please don't change names") someone will make a mod to do this. As you say, it is relatively easy, and only a few files are affected.

Birka Viking
04-30-2005, 21:14
wow great job AGAIN EB. Can´t wait for the open beta.
:barrel: :medievalcheers:

hellenes
04-30-2005, 21:19
I assume that if there is enough demand for it (about one out of every 20 comments I get about this are "please don't change names") someone will make a mod to do this. As you say, it is relatively easy, and only a few files are affected.

Well for me it will ad few challenging campaign at the begginning until i figure out what is what so please change names....
For the hellenic factions I dont care anyway since ill understand 90% of it...
BTW you make me vomit over the dump clickfest fantasy that the vanilla game is...

Hellenes

TheTank
04-30-2005, 21:32
Kelvan is the next "countdown to open beta" Gaul or another "barbarian" faction ?!
I like to see some "barbarians" next week.

PS: Nice update ~:)

khelvan
04-30-2005, 22:22
It depends on what factions are the most ready to be shown. We may be able to show Gaul, but I suspect that the Seleukids are a more likely choice. We'll see.

Craterus
04-30-2005, 22:33
I'm almost afraid to ask this question... but here goes... khelvan, do you think you guys can release the game with the option of having unit, city, etc. names in English rather than the original language? I know it's supposed to be authentic and whatnot, but options are always better than no options, and I assume it would be relatively simple to implement this particular one.

I'd second that. I'm fine with the individual unit names, I just prefer faction names as they were. Except if you are going to change Parthia to Persia.

khelvan
04-30-2005, 22:48
In many cases, the names were not descriptive at all. When talking about Germanic tribes, for instance, "Germania" means nothing, as there was no unified nation. In some cases, these names are left in as we have nothing more descriptive to use: "Iberia" will remain "Iberia," as the tribes of the Iberian peninsula who at times united together to face a common foe had no name that they called themselves, collectively. In other cases, the native tribal name will be used, or the native name of the nation or confederation of tribes. "Aedui" will be the confederation of Gallic tribes led by the Aedui, controlling about half of what we know as Gaul.

Wishazu
05-01-2005, 04:47
can you give us a rough date as to when this is gonna be available, as rtr 6.o is coming in about 2 weeks, i doubt i`ll have the time to play both mods :(

Crazed Rabbit
05-01-2005, 05:19
It gets more and more amazing! ~:eek:

My only quibble is that I think Kart-Hadasht sounds better than Tsorim. But that's just me.

Also, I noticed the Carthraginian Citizen calvary has a rectangular sword and scabard...is that a WIP?

I'm keeping RTW on my hardrive for this one!

Crazed Rabbit

Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-01-2005, 13:06
It gets more and more amazing! ~:eek:

My only quibble is that I think Kart-Hadasht sounds better than Tsorim. But that's just me.Kart-Hadasht was the name of the capital, not the name that the Carthaginins called themselves.


Also, I noticed the Carthraginian Citizen calvary has a rectangular sword and scabard...is that a WIP?Yes.

jerby
05-01-2005, 13:36
i saw the peltast having spears up in combat. does that mean they stab overhead in one-on-one combat? or were they throwing?

khelvan
05-01-2005, 21:05
It wasn't a peltast, it was the Libyan Spearmen, and yes, they stab overhand.

Ellesthyan
05-01-2005, 21:52
Khelvan; that is great news. Are you planning to implement that on every other hoplite formation?

Shigawire
05-01-2005, 22:27
khelvan, do you think you guys can release the game with the option of having unit, city, etc. names in English rather than the original language? I know it's supposed to be authentic and whatnot

In my opinion, names should never ever have to be "translated" - as they are the unique tag for someone's identity, and not a label. If it were a label, it would have a meaning, and that meaning would naturally have to be translated.

Tsorim was the name people in Phoenician colonies referred to their kinsmen. Tsorim means "Tyrians", as Tyre was the capitol of the original Phoenicians.
Tyre is another example of a location name which has been badly transliterated and badly translated.

I reiterate what I mentioned earlier. The translation of "Tsor" to "Tyre" is also unfounded. It is best to call the cultures each by their own respective names. It's not always about being historically accurate, sometimes it's about respecting each culture, and not one above the rest. Like having latin names for all cultures, just because they happened to become the rulers after the dust settled. Nothing is etched in stone in the annals of history! ~:cheers:

Dooz
05-01-2005, 23:22
Here here! ~:cheers:

Idomeneas
05-02-2005, 13:11
we want more! we want more!

The Stranger
05-02-2005, 16:36
In my opinion, names should never ever have to be "translated" - as they are the unique tag for someone's identity, and not a label. If it were a label, it would have a meaning, and that meaning would naturally have to be translated.

Tsorim was the name people in Phoenician colonies referred to their kinsmen. Tsorim means "Tyrians", as Tyre was the capitol of the original Phoenicians.
Tyre is another example of a location name which has been badly transliterated and badly translated.

I reiterate what I mentioned earlier. The translation of "Tsor" to "Tyre" is also unfounded. It is best to call the cultures each by their own respective names. It's not always about being historically accurate, sometimes it's about respecting each culture, and not one above the rest. Like having latin names for all cultures, just because they happened to become the rulers after the dust settled. Nothing is etched in stone in the annals of history! ~:cheers:

that's all oke but keep it on a normal letter type, i don't really like too go and translate greek units. oke,

jerby
05-02-2005, 16:45
wont happen, since 60% of EB itself cant read it..
i am in favor of the original names it gives a touch of history too it, and even some educational value. names like torikatai, argyraspygids and thureophoroi. its teaching me something.
i too got scared when RTR did this partially, but when you keep looking at the pretty pictures you will remember it easily

Steppe Merc
05-02-2005, 20:35
can you give us a rough date as to when this is gonna be available, as rtr 6.o is coming in about 2 weeks, i doubt i`ll have the time to play both mods :(
When we're done. ~;)

And why do you want transalted names? That's so boring. Why don't you just play vanilla for goodness sakes if you want bland names?

Vercingetorix
05-02-2005, 21:01
I only hope that all the names will be given a pronunciation key. I hate not knowing how to pronounce all these names otherwise I like them.

khelvan
05-02-2005, 22:25
Updated.

Dooz
05-02-2005, 23:18
When we're done. ~;)

And why do you want transalted names? That's so boring. Why don't you just play vanilla for goodness sakes if you want bland names?


...'cause EB offers a lot more than re-translated names... ~:)

Dooz
05-02-2005, 23:20
Updated.

God this board makes me feel so stupid... what exactly is updated?

In the meantime, I'll go get a bit more edumakated... :book:

shifty157
05-02-2005, 23:35
God this board makes me feel so stupid... what exactly is updated?

The elite african pikemen now have a unit description.

khelvan
05-03-2005, 00:19
Plus I have given a picture for the Elite African Infantry.

Dooz
05-03-2005, 05:52
Thankyousirs.

Shigawire
05-03-2005, 08:02
that's all oke but keep it on a normal letter type, i don't really like too go and translate greek units. oke,

So what are you complaining about? ~;p
So far we've only been using latin fonts, so I don't see where you are going with this. We won't be using authentic alphabets and writing systems. So far, we have been using the latin font, plus transliteration. How much easier can it get?

If TSORIM was written in Phoenician, it would look like this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/35px-Phoenician_sade.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/19/35px-Phoenician_res.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a8/35px-Phoenician_yodh.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3b/35px-Phoenician_mem.png

The letters above:
Sade (Ts) , Res (R), Yodh (I, sometimes E), Mem (M)
Ts-R-I-M

Are you saying we shouldn't be using the latin font + transliterations? ~;)

Copperhaired Berserker!
05-03-2005, 22:06
I would love to help Eb but i know sod all about skinning and all that stuff... maybe I should get 3ds and start making skins for practice..:book:

Simetrical
05-04-2005, 05:18
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/35px-Phoenician_sade.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/19/35px-Phoenician_res.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a8/35px-Phoenician_yodh.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3b/35px-Phoenician_mem.png

The letters above:
Sade (Ts) , Res (R), Yodh (I, sometimes E), Mem (M)
Ts-R-I-MOf course, read backwards as well. The rightmost character is Sade (however you want to transcribe it), the second from the right is Res, etc. How do you pronounce the word in Punic, by the way?

-Simetrical

Davros Vader
05-04-2005, 15:11
I say change faction names for historically correct ones, the way EB is shaping up it will be like a differant game with heaps of new stuff to check out(we might even learn something).
Will there be new wonders or advantageous locations added in EB and will wonders still have faction wide effects?
Another thing I was thinking is that it would be cool to have more control over protectorates....there is little reason to get them in vanilla version.
Congrats to the EB team these screenshots look awesome

khelvan
05-04-2005, 17:28
We have many unique buildings/locations, but none have faction-wide effects. It is because of these that we removed the Vanilla wonders.

Davros Vader
05-05-2005, 14:26
Will the vanilla wonders be removed completely or just the faction wide effects?
Would it be possible to have localised effects from wonders and/or unique locations/buildings? I especially like effects that give units experience and think that there should be more ways to gain it than just battle experience or when they are first created, like maybe retraining (at specialised facillities ) or just through length of service.
~:cheers: Once again I must say I'm astounded by whats on the horizon ~D

Simetrical
05-06-2005, 19:17
Will you be using the proper attributive form? I mean, if you hover over a Carthaginian stack, will the popup say "Tsori Army"?

-Simetrical

khelvan
05-06-2005, 19:21
Will you be using the proper attributive form? I mean, if you hover over a Carthaginian stack, will the popup say "Tsori Army"?

-SimetricalYes, assuming that is the proper attributive form. ~:)

Urnamma
05-06-2005, 19:58
Tsorim.

Phoenician has similar plural endings to hebrew. The plural of mamzer is mamzrim, etc. Tsorim is a bit irregular, but it works.

Benny Moore
05-16-2005, 11:24
Say, haven't there been much discussion about the hoplon? I'm no expert, but the general consensus seems to be that a hoplon wasn't a shield, and that the thing that is called a hoplon is actually an aespis or something. Yet, in one of the unit descriptions in this thread, the hoplite shield is called hoplon instead of aespis.

Santos
10-23-2005, 16:33
hello!!! PLEASE i need help to know where can i get the Mod"europa barbarum"!!!
CAN ANYONE HELP ME?????????:help:

Forgus
10-23-2005, 16:53
It is not out yet. we are still waiting for the open beta to be out. Should be soon. And don't shout.

Sahran
10-28-2005, 19:06
It wasn't a peltast, it was the Libyan Spearmen, and yes, they stab overhand.

So, pardoning my lack of knowledge, the Libyan's fight in Classical hoplite manner, not phalangite? They are a heavy infantry that fights as a spearmen and not in the phalanx formation?

The preview seems to lack a number of the pictures in it. is there any way they might be returned? Or a link be provided to a full preview?

QwertyMIDX
10-28-2005, 22:45
They fight more like Thureophoroi than any sort of Hoplite. The Liby-Phoenicans fight in phalangite style IIRC.