What Factions

[ShadesWolf]

Know we have decided on a name and a time period, it is time to decide on what factions should be included in our mod.

So come on guys make some suggestions ?


http://www.shadesmtw.com/map2.jpg

http://www.shadesmtw.com/map1.jpg

http://www.shadesmtw.com/map3.jpg

http://www.shadesmtw.com/map4.jpg

These are some maps we can work from as examples, these were ones that DJ has worked on when we were developing the Two Crowns mod

[Duke Malcolm]

France
England
Scotland
Lordship of the Isles
Burgundy
Ireland
Norway
Milan
Genoa
Switzerland

[ShadesWolf]

England
France
Burgundy
Flanders
Brittany
Navarre
Scotland
Swiss
Brabant
Upper Lorraine


The question of Italy
- Genoa
- Milan
- Venice
- Savoy

[Duke Malcolm]

How far north will the map go?

Your list seems pretty good, but if it goes north to the Western Isles, you can includ the Lordship of the Isles, and maybe Norway and Denmark if it goes that far East

[King Ragnar]

Wales and Irealand

[Duke Malcolm]

The second map seems a good choice, but the Western Isles aren't on where they should be.

[Templar Knight]

are the lordship of the isles going to be in? if so make the isle of Skye their stronghold ~:)

[Duke Malcolm]

There are islands missing off the coast of Skye, which the Isles had; Lewis, Harris, North/South Uist, Barra. These have been missed off of the 2nd map

[ShadesWolf]

As I stated these are just a starting point, we will need to add a number of things, but this gives us something to develop from.

To be added

coast of Skye
Channel islands

etc

[ShadesWolf]

This is the current list of Factions that have been put forward.....

France
England
Scotland
Lordship of the Isles
Burgundy
Ireland
Norway

Milan
Genoa
Switzerland
Flanders
Brittany
Navarre
Brabant
Upper Lorraine
Venice
Savoy
Wales
Denmark

Can we please discuss them and make anymore suggestions. I have highlighted the ones I believe have a chance of being in the mod.

Could we all please make an input.

We will then need to make a decision on which factions is to be the ROME faction, and what that factions three children will be.

[Templar Knight]

put Tiree in, my family's from there ~:)

[kreig]

What about maybe the holy roman empire, as a minor faction,
and or maybe Aragon, just so we have a little more are covered

[Sauron the Great]

I think the four proposed playable factions would be the best choice in regards to the suggested time period of the mod. Would all the others then be non-playables and rebels? That would would be good, cause it would give Burgundy some room to expand and not at the expense of the French and English early in the game.

How about making the senate faction the English parliament. Just give them no revenue so they won't be able to muster armies. They could tell the English King what not to do (which is what they spent most of their time doing as they controlled the taxes of the realm) if thats possible. The only problem would be what province to give them. The idea of a non controllable English faction having London wouldn't be to pleasing. But you could just wipe them out early on. The pope would also be an obvious choice, especially as RTW isn't really concerned with religion. The pope was always trying for peace between England and France by sending bishops and cardinals to try and mitigate the situation. Just some suggestions to get the ball rolling.

[ShadesWolf]

I had a slightly different idea for the Rome faction, I was thinking about making it Royal France. (Which we could give it Paris/ Ile De France.

For the other three factions I was thinking about maybe

Burgundy
an Armagnac faction
and A.N.other faction, maybe Flanders.

This would then allow for us to have the Duchy of Brittany as in independant faction.

[The_Doctor]

Why do we need Denmark and Norway?

[The_Ferret]

espagnol

[Templar Knight]

England
Scotland
Lordship of the Isles
France
Duchy of Burgandy
Duchy of Britanny
Savoy
Brabant
Kalmar Union (Denmark, Sweden, Norway)
Switzerland
Navarre
Ireland
Milan
Genoa

[Sauron the Great]

I think Flanders should be an independent faction at the start of the game as Edward III used it as a beach head/staging area (with the permission of the Flemish) to start his first campaign of the war.

[Meneldil]

Well, I don't want to sound nationalistic or something like that, but there's should be more than 2 french factions (Burgundy and 'France').
The political situation was much more complex, and tough you don't have to add all the small duchy and county (ie. Auvergne), some were still major powers, almost as powerful as the dauphin.

You might have changed your mind, but I don't really see why the Kalmar Union should be in. It's not really revelant to the HYW.
As for the French faction, I think you should have something like the The Armagnacs, Provence, Britanny, Burgundy and The Kingdom of France.
Castille and Navarre were also important early in the war, and thus might deserve to be a faction on their own (but Castille wouldn't really fit on the map I think).

[ShadesWolf]

As for the French faction, I think you should have something like the The Armagnacs, Provence, Britanny, Burgundy and The Kingdom of France

Thankyou for your input.

Which way do you think would fit better

Royal France (Rome)
- Burgundy
- Flanders
- Brittany

or

Royal France (Rome)
- Burgundy
- Armagnacs
- Another French faction

Then we have brittany and Flanders as independant kingdoms/ Duchys.

[Templar Knight]

I prefer the first one

Royal France (Rome)
- Burgundy
- Flanders
- Brittany

[Sauron the Great]

I would opt for the second choice, as Brittany and Flanders were to important to overlook as independent factions. It's just what could make the third French faction?

[ShadesWolf]

I also prefer the second, I was thinking of maybe Normandy, basically due to its size, and the fact that once conquered by England, after Agincourt, it would have been eliminated and have no input into the French civil war.

It would be an easy target for English conquest, and be perfectly situated between Flanders and Brittany. Also if my history is right, was in not controlled by one of the French Kings sons.

[Duke Malcolm]

I agree with Shadeswolf

[Sauron the Great]

Yeah, Normandy sounds good. Anouther suggestion would be Anjou. But Normandy would be a good choice.

[Meneldil]

I can't really help for the romans factions, but my vote would goes to

The Kingdom of France (as the Senate Faction, with Rome being Paris)
- The Armagnacs
- Burgundy
- Duchy of Provence

Furthermore, the best solution would be to have the 3 roman family being The king of England, the Armagnacs and Burgundy, but then they couldn't fight right from the start, which would be silly.

My knowledge about the HYW isn't that good, but I think a mod taking place during this period should show the political situation of France : a country where the king had barely enough power to lead his retainers, whose throne was claimed by a lot of different factions.

[King Ragnar]

Im sure it was discussed that the War of the Roses was to be included, how would the two factions be included?

[ShadesWolf]

Im sure it was discussed that the War of the Roses was to be included, how would the two factions be included?

What i was thinking about was having another scenario which would be war of roses time period.

We would keep the English faction as the Lancaster faction and then just add another one to cover York . In the same time period in europe we would have France, Burgundy, Scotland, The swiss and all the Italian factions.

[Sauron the Great]

How about the Yorkists emerging as a rebellion. The conduct of the War of the Roses would be satisfied through this because the battles of the wars were fought to sap the man power of the other army to neutralize it as a political threat. There fore if the Yorkists are rebels, then a lancastarian player's objective would be to wipe them out, which would be historically accurate. If the Yorkists started with provinces then seiges would have to be fought and land re-conquered, historically this wasn't the case. The only problem with this is, there would be no option to play as the Yorkists in the campaign game.

[Duke Malcolm]

If it is possible to make factions appear, like the Golden Horde in MTW, then we could do that.

[Sauron the Great]

That would probably be the best option, a rebellion does seem slightly temperamental.

[ShadesWolf]

Then this might cause us a problem ,As I dont think you can make a faction appear at a given date, This is somethimg we will need to look into.

[Duke Malcolm]

What caused the War or the Roses, then? Perhaps we could set several armies to appear when those conditions have been met?

[Templar Knight]

was the war of the roses not caused because of the weakness of the government following the hundred years war defeat?

[Sauron the Great]

In a nutshell yes. After his defeat in the HYW, Henry VI began to deterioate mentally. Through a series of well calculated political moves Richard Duke of York became the kings chief advisor and in simple terms grabbed the thrown. His ambitions lay with a animostity he had towards the Lancastarian dynasty for sending him to Ireland to become the lieutenant there.

N.B The Lieutenantship of Ireland was normally seen as a military apprenticeship for young nobels (such John Talbot), but for a man Richards age it was just a way of keeping him out of the political scene.

[Sauron the Great]

Oh and and of course Richard was a Plantagnet (they generally didnt like the Lancastarians, probably because of the whole usurping thing ~D ). Duhhhhhhhhhhh. :oops:

[ShadesWolf]

Below is a list of the factions that I think we should include. we only now need to decide on which Italian ones to use, if any?


#France
- Burgundians
- Normans
- Armagnacs

#Brittany
#Flanders
#England (York)
#England
#Scotland
#Lordship of the Isles
#Navarre
#Swiss
#Brabant
#Genoa
#Milan
#Savoy
#Venice

[Duke Malcolm]

Genoa, Milan, and Savoy.

[Moros]

First off all you couldn't use flanders as one of the french faction as it was Britons ally and France enemy since they wanted independence. Later by marriage it became burgundy's cause the leader (Don't know the proper englisch word) had only one daughter.

second: Brabant? Don't know your not going to find much info about this believe me! therefor I think rebel is a better option so Flanders could conquer something without having to fight directly with the much bigger french factions. This wasn't even independant I think in that time period.

Third: Burgundy wouldn't follow French commands from paris since they wanted only to become more powerfull even if an alliance with britons was needed. And they became even verry hostile when trying to connect their properties in flanders with those of burgundy and wich faction would be between those two do you think?
France.

[ShadesWolf]

Ive been doing quite a bit of reading over the last few days about the history of Burgundy for this period and its has opened up a few more avenues for factions.

Does anybody have any objections to adding a few Iberian factions, ie Castile and Aragon as we have space on the map to cover part of the kingdoms ?

[Sauron the Great]

Thats sounds good. I believe that some of the Iberian factions had an involvement in the French civil war, so its appropriate to include them. Especially if theres room. But is there room for there own set of units?

[Marcus Furius Camillus]

I support the idea of at least one Flemish faction. But why not adding Brabant to Flanders ? Margaretha, daugther of Jan III , duke of Brabant was married to Lodewijk van Male, count of Flanders ( however Johanna, her sister, got the duchy and was married to Wenceslas, duke of Luxemburg )



Vlaenderen den Leeuw !

[Ludens]

The last posts in this forum but four where 19 months ago. This mod has been dead for quite a while.