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khelvan
05-14-2005, 01:21
Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!

We hesitated presenting this faction to you this week. We're not quite sure how we will top this preview. However, we felt the time was right to reveal these units. As usual, we have a mix of artists working on the units, as well as many people involved in their creation, and everyone will be given proper credit when the mod is released. However, this week special thanks goes to Spartan Warrior.

This week, the EB team is proud to present:

http://img242.echo.cx/img242/262/logobaktria1medium6sv.jpg

http://img204.echo.cx/img204/1743/baktria3shield12848247gb.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)http://img204.echo.cx/img204/7074/baktriamap19pz2ac.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

"Of all the frontiers of the ancient world, none has endured so long in the poetic imagination as the kingdom of Baktria. In those distant haunts of the Hindu Kush, nearly three thousand miles east of Athens, the Hellenes imagined a never-never land untouched by civilization. Rivers of honey oozed on the Baktrian frontier; fierce griffins guarded the precious gold mined by giant ants; people had ears the size of an elephant's, ate their parents, and lived for centuries." According to tradition, the god Dionysos was the first to tame this land, then Herakles, and finally Alexandros. The realities of the kingdom of Baktria are more difficult to come by however, and the influence of the Iranian peoples played a larger role than the legends reveal. While the history and culture of the kingdom of Baktria is obscured in the mists at its home near the top of the world, it is known that at its largest extent it encompassed an area consisting of all of Turkmenistan, Tadzhikistan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, up to the Indus.

The forces of the kingdom of Baktria are an exciting mixture of Hellenic and Iranian (and if you choose to expand there, Indian), and you will not lead them to glory on the field of battle without utilizing the best of both worlds. Mainland Hellenes straight from Thessaly and Athens served with Hellenized Iranians and locals throughout Baktria's realms. Hellenistic phalangites and Iranian spearmen will make up the core of your infantry. From the lightest armed local levies in Hellenic and indigenous panoplies to the successor state phalangites, you will have many different types of infantry from which to choose. Any Baktrian king will strive to quickly recruit a royal foot unit suitable for this kingdom and will find that the mobile and elite Baktrian hypaspists, whose equipment and style is a curious mix of a Hellenic unit adapting to the terrain, climate, and fighting styles of Transoxiana, will turn the tide of many battles. You will have to rely heavily on your countless varieties of cavalry, including regional javelin and bow mounted units of varying abilities, Median and Baktrian medium cavalry, as well as Hellenistic and uniquely Baktrian cataphract cavalry. The cavalry are supplemented by Indian elephants, which Baktria supplied in large numbers to the Seleukid empire before its independence. A variety of skirmishers are also available, including well armored and elite units as well as the Baktrian Doryphoroi, whose spears and bows make them one of the most intriguing units available anywhere.

The kingdom of Baktria was constantly harrassed by nomads and Sakai from the north, and the Seleukids did not let Baktria go without a fight. The relationship with Parthia is stormy and you will need to choose your path with them carefully; good relations can help to stave off the decaying Seleucid influence in the region, but even then they are a threat that Baktria will have to deal with if they are to move west. The Hindu Kush provide a monumental barrier to the southeast, but any enterprising king must lead his forces across the top of the world to make India his own, and the Bactrians are better poised to do this than any other faction. With India at your back and the barbaric nomads to the north contained the dream of Alexandros' Brotherhood of Man can become a reality that sweeps across the eastern world!



Here we have the Baktrians in action.
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/9089/aagemaattack8jw.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/6876/aagemafight6fm.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/3971/aarchersfight9lw.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/3102/aarchersfire9mr.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/9819/aphalangitaiadavance8rm.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/7138/apheriaspidaifight8jt.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/6186/akataphraktoicharge0mk.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Of course, the units:
http://img204.echo.cx/img204/1169/upantodapoi9nu.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Pantodapoi Phalangites are the standard levy of the Seleucid Kingdom and others influenced by the Successors, including Pontus. They are tough and reliable infantry, but are prone to rebellion and discontent and are hence more expensive than their Macedonian contemporaries. They are mostly levies of Jewish, Syrian, and Persian descent that are co-opted into the army. They fight as pikemen, with a soft leather cuirass, pikes, round Illyrian style shields and Phrygian caps. This makes them a viable pike unit, though they are less disciplined and more prone to flee than more reliable Greeks and Macedonians that make up the Pezhetairoi. They can be counted upon to present a solid wall of spear points to the enemy, but their lack of discipline and intensive training makes them even more prone to a flanking attack.

Historically, the Seleucids and others used pike levies from their various subject peoples to make up parts of the battle line that were facing the enemy’s least valuable troops. They gave decent accounts of themselves at many battles, but were the first line to break in the disasters at Raphia against the Ptolemies and in Macedonia against the Romans. They made up more and more of the Seleucid battle line as time went on, due to the dwindling number of Greek recruits that the army could draw upon for the pike units (most went to the more elite units), and more and more Asiatic peoples were put into the Pezhetairoi class and given land grants, to make up the loss. Still, these more unreliable formations were still used in many places.

http://img204.echo.cx/img204/8949/upezhataroi6st.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Pezhetairoi are the bread and butter military unit of the Successor States. They are well disciplined and highly motivated pikemen that are armed and armored to the teeth. They are armored in a linen cuirass, a Thracian cap, a bronze greave on the right leg, stout boots, good bracers, and reinforced shoulder pads made from hardened linen (due to their experience with the deadly curved swords of Thrace). They have Illyrian style round shields attached to their bodies by leather straps that help support the weight of the shield and keep their hand free to grasp the sarissa. They are defensive infantry par excellent. They are the anvil of the two part Macedonian system of warfare, the heavy cavalry being the hammer. They should be used to anchor enemy soldiers while the Theurophoroi harass the flanks and the heavy cavalry smashes into the flanks and rear.

Historically, the Pezhetairoi are the classic Alexandrian phalanx. They were used to great effect against the Persians, Medes, Bactrians, Indians, Phoenicians, and many, many others. They are an effective force and have not changed much over the centuries. The Romans were able to defeat them as easily as they did for two main reasons. One, the Roman army was at a high state of readiness and tactical prowess after defeating the Carthaginians. Two, the heavy cavalry arm of the Successor armies had degenerated to the point where they were no longer able to field significant numbers to fulfill their part of the hammer and anvil tactic of Alexander. There were many small reasons, numbering among them the misuse of the Thureophoroi, the underuse of Peltasts, and the lax state of warfare that the Successor states were used to. In any case, the phalanx was not as anachronistic or inflexible as widely believed; it was simply used in the wrong way. In the thirteenth century onwards, pikemen in similar formations were able to work wonders with more capable generals and a better cavalry arm. Do not under appreciate pikemen, for they are still a war winning force.

http://img204.echo.cx/img204/1916/udoruphoroi9kl.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Armed with spear and bow these troops are not well regarded by their Greek masters having formed the bulk of the Old Persian army defeated by Alexander the Great. Seen as skirmishers and auxiliaries with the heavy Greek infantry forming the battle line. These Iranian Spearmen are recruited from the eastern reaches of the Iranian plateau and are very common in the armies of Baktria. They are the backbone of the traditional tribal militia and form a major part of the Baktrian tribal levy. They are armed with the traditional Iranian weapons, an 8' spear and a composite foot bow. A large decorated brown leather quiver of arrows would be slung on the left side with the bow case on the right. A long plain yellow tunic with close fitting sleeves at the wrists. The tunic would be held with an narrow embroidered Parthian linen belt. Trousers are worn under the tunic and are close fitting. Soft felt ankle shoes are secured with leather or fabric straps.

Historically, the vast Iranian plateau gave rise to a form of infantry rarely seen in the west. Armed with 8' spears and composite short bow these infantry are well suited to conditions in the east facing nomadic enemies relying on long range archery to which they men are well able to respond. Nomadic cavalry is reluctant to engage close order troops and these men can fill both roles. They are versatile and can be dangerous if used properly. They are however no match for heavily armored infantry. Individually, they are skilled but not outstanding warriors, but their versatility ensures that they will be useful to any commander. These men however, prefer to rely on archery to inflict harm on the enemy. They can hold the line against weaker infantry and cavalry but they cannot be relied upon to put up an extended fight if the situation is not in their favor.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/3307/uindogreek3yk6jl.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Indohellenikoi Hoplitai: After the kingdom of Baktria attacked and seized its Indian possessions, it found the Greeks who had been living there had adapted somewhat to native ways. Gone was the close phalanx formation and the long spear, replaced by a somewhat looser but more skilled melee formation. They adopted a Phrygian style helmet, light cotton Thracian trousers, and javelins, in addition to a smaller and lighter shield. This allows them to be excellent elephant killers, as well as defeat the more lightly armored infantry of the east. They can be used as a good medium infantry, to screen the flanks and protect against elephants and cavalry while the Thureophoroi deliver the fatal melee blow.

Historically, the Indo-Greeks adapted quite well to the environment of India and prospered. Many became Buddhists, though they still remained fierce warriors, true to their Hellenic forbearers. They are an excellent medium infantry, well able to compliment other troop types and provide a versatile unit against light cavalry and elephants.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/391/upheriaspidai9rb.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Baktrians, not being a proper successor to Alexander’s legacy, had no force of elite shock infantry to draw upon after their split from the Seleucid empire. To take the fortresses of their mountainous homeland, they were forced to develop such a force of heavy infantry. Armored in lamellar and scale, they are a force of heavy infantry to be reckoned with. They have stout iron greaves and helmets, and are armed with xiphoi and javelins. This infantry can be used as a shock assault infantry par excellence. They are best when right in the middle of the action.

Historically, Baktria was a mountainous land, filled with hill tribes and fierce peoples, raided constantly by steppe nomads and ferocious peoples to the south and west. They developed this sort of heavy infantry to man and rapidly deploy from their mountain fortresses, protecting the legendary fertile valleys of the Baktrian kingdom.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/1512/uagema0pk.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Baktrion Agema are the result of the adapting of the Hypaspists, a fast moving phalanx formation of elite troops, with Baktrian climate and topography conditions influencing several changes in the unit, including a distinctively "Oriental" look. They are a Royal bodyguard unit and are elaborately decorated and equipped. They are made up of the elite of the Baktrian phalangites and are a very expensive unit to maintain.

As with all Hypaspists, they are not a regular line unit, but are designed to strike quickly at weak points or support areas in the line in dire situations. Their speed also makes them more effective when dealing with nomadic troops. These elite troops may have had some religious or sacred significance too, as they are equipped with the insignia of Anahita Artemis in numerous locations on their gear.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/8148/ubactrainjavelin0lq7ai.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Armed chiefly with javelins these horsemen hail from Arachosia, Bactria, Sogdiana and similarly equipped light cavalry were also supplied by the levy from Persis and Media. Their flexible nature makes them well suited to the fluid, aggressive style of warfare so common on the eastern frontiers. Mounted on a swift horse, armed with nothing but a small crescent-shaped 'Taka' shield, short spear, and a handful of javelins these swift moving horsemen can be deadly. Their small, nimble ponies can negotiate most terrain easily, and they're capable enough to survive contact with the enemy, but their strength remains in maintaining their loose style of fighting.

Historically, cavalry of this kind was supplied by both nomadic and settled populations on the eastern marches of the old Achaemenid Empire and kept fighting for and against the states that succeeded it. Equipped with javelins, they would advance on their target at less than a gallop. As each rank came into range, these warriors would turn away, hurling their javelins at the target, and retire to safety before the enemy could retaliate. The result was often a swirling mass of charging and counter-charging horsemen as they reformed to attack again.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/8447/ubactriancav7mc9rd.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
The Baktrian cavalry under Greek rule is much the same as the Baktrian cavalry under the former Persian rule. They are tough lancers; able to punch holes through most enemy lines, and are among the best cavalry of their type. They are armed with a long kontos and an axe, making them versatile heavy cavalrymen.

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/3898/ukataphraktoi7nb.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
After suffering heavy losses to the Parthian and Armenian Cataphracts, the Seleucid and Bactrian empires produced their own versions of these heavy horsemen, both adapting the unit to Greek technology and using superior metalwork to make them even more heavily armored. They are armored in an expensive combination of lamellar armor and chain, with heavy felt sandwiched in the middle. The resulting armor is tough and flexible, but offers outstanding protection. They are to be used as heavy shock cavalry, and have staying power in melee because of the sheer weight of their armor. They are slightly heavier than their Parthian counterparts, but lack the deadly maces that the Parthians carry and also the élan of their elite Parthian counterparts. Their horses are as heavily armored than those of the Hetairoi, but they lack the characteristic fierceness and discipline of the elite successor cavalry.

Historically, Hellenistic Kataphraktoi were at least as good as their Parthian enemy, but most Seleucid commanders did not quite understand how to use this cavalry. They won great victories over the Parthians when supporting the heavier and more elite Hetairoi, compelling the Parthians to settle for a peace treaty and suzerainty over some of the Seleucid eastern possessions. They passed into history when most of the unit was bribed by Pompey during his conquest of the east. They formed the basis for the Roman cataphracts of later ages.

Here, we have a few treats from Teleklos:
http://img29.echo.cx/img29/5839/logobaktria1small7oi.jpg

http://img217.echo.cx/img217/415/baktriawallpaper28in.th.jpg (http://img217.echo.cx/my.php?image=baktriawallpaper28in.jpg)

We hope you enjoyed this week's update.

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our news posts are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and will do so long after our initial release.

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them would be here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Or here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us who provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

-the EB team

Wishazu
05-14-2005, 01:28
VERY GOOD!!!! some of the best looking skins ive seen so far from you guys. so when is it available again???? lol

Sarcasm
05-14-2005, 01:33
Was I right, or was I right?

Big_John
05-14-2005, 01:44
haha wow! some of those skins are outlandishly cool!

4 of the baktrian units are in my personal top 10 best looking EB units, so far. :bow:

who skinned the elite shock infantry, btw? that skin is simply AMAZING!!!

edit: thanks for posting it so soon in the weekend, btw. ~;)

Teleklos Archelaou
05-14-2005, 01:58
who skinned the elite shock infantry, btw? that skin is simply AMAZING!!!I did the initial description, Seydlitz did a remarkable concept art rendering, and of course Spartan Warrior did the unit (and helmet), with lots of help from Urnamma at all points along the way. Urnamma did most of the unit descriptions (I think) with lots of help from sharrukin for the non-Hellenic units.

I should also add that Dux Corvanus did the absolutely gorgeous icon. ~:)

Sheep
05-14-2005, 01:59
Something tells me the Baktrians will be conquering the world in the near future...

Big_John
05-14-2005, 02:12
I did the initial description, Seydlitz did a remarkable concept art rendering, and of course Spartan Warrior did the unit (and helmet), with lots of help from Urnamma at all points along the way. Urnamma did most of the unit descriptions (I think) with lots of help from sharrukin for the non-Hellenic units.

I should also add that Dux Corvanus did the absolutely gorgeous icon. ~:)well hot damn, keep it up guys!

http://www.forumshq.com/images/smilies/rockon.gif

runes
05-14-2005, 02:37
what is that (celtic?) unit in the very first screen?


also, it looks great, but i just can't get over those duck helmets on the Agema

Steppe Merc
05-14-2005, 02:59
They are just fighting them.
About those "duch helmets", I thought it was pretty funny to, but it's accurate.

Sheep
05-14-2005, 03:00
what is that (celtic?) unit in the very first screen?

Apparently an extremely lost bunch of Irishmen.
(https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46312)

That's what happens when you drink too much with your friends... one minute you're all stumbling across the Irish countryside looking for a convenient tree to urinate on, and before you know it you and your mates have somehow ended up in Baktria going head-to-head with some pikemen wearing ducks on their heads.


(edit: corrected spelling)

Pycckuu
05-14-2005, 03:06
they look great :D

Acutulus
05-14-2005, 03:09
I've never seen a boeotian helmet like that. Could you guys post an example?

Teleklos Archelaou
05-14-2005, 03:26
I've never seen a boeotian helmet like that. Could you guys post an example?It's a more conservative version of a strange "Boiotian" helmet (the normal type of which was very popular among Hellenic Baktrians) that is found here (http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/ucd/clasp01.jpg). Hard to see them, but there are four of them on both of the figures (only one shown on that link). The horse ears are traditonally found on most Boiotian and other type helmets of Baktrian kings and are found on the link above's helmet as well. But the "barnacles" on the helmet above puzzled us to no end. It was clear that they were painstakingly molded onto the figures and so we thought they should be included. We love the helmets! I'm still pushing for their inclusion in another Baktrian unit (unfortunately some of the other best ones weren't even included in this preview), but we'll just have to wait and see on that. ~D

edit: *After* unit creation we found an artist's recreation of the unit in a book on the Baktrian military. They changed the helmet up more than we did, and didn't get a few details I think we got, but it wound up exceedingly similar to ours. ("Baktrian Royal Foot Bodyguard") (http://img98.echo.cx/img98/4701/baktrionagema15uk.jpg)

Acutulus
05-14-2005, 04:44
Very interesting, a little off setting at first, but I must say they're growing on me. Great job yet again. ~:cheers:

Birka Viking
05-14-2005, 09:34
Very good job again EB. I think this faction will be among the strongest.... ~:cheers:

cunctator
05-14-2005, 09:42
Bartix! Great work. Nice to see horsese with saddles.

Proper Gander
05-14-2005, 10:41
*dribble*

damn beta COUNTDOWN....

spirit_of_rob
05-14-2005, 11:24
so.... theres not really much point anyone else makin a mod if it wont be ready before EB is there! ;)

Orda Khan
05-14-2005, 13:30
To the EB Team........
I have followed this project and been very impressed with the work you have produced but this time you have surpassed yourselves.
Every single thing about this faction looks truly amazing and I am not surprised they appear to have become the favourite faction!

I am totally stunned!! I am champing at the bit to try this Mod!! Please don't prolong the torture too much, the waiting is agony ~;)

........Orda

The Stranger
05-14-2005, 13:37
oooooohhh

Alexander the Pretty Good
05-14-2005, 15:06
Sweet Sean Hannity! Best Countdown ever!

I'm just sad that little Bactria gets so little land to start with. I guess I'll have to fix that.

:charge:

Furious Mental
05-14-2005, 16:19
Awesome

BDC
05-14-2005, 17:56
Wow, lots of work went into this.

Maybe Sega will hire you...

Steppe Merc
05-14-2005, 18:03
No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game.

GoreBag
05-14-2005, 19:22
I really enjoyed this update; it has piqued my interest in Baktria. However, I noticed that the description for the Pezhetairoi still says "greave on right leg". ~;p

Sheep
05-14-2005, 19:46
No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game.

How do we know? Have they ever tried?

Viking
05-14-2005, 21:00
Cool stuff indeed! ~:cool:

But this is countdown to Beta, how about fullversion, will it come next month or this month?

As you might see, I`m a completely newbie to mods.

alman7272
05-14-2005, 21:16
Full version will probably come a few months after the open-beta.

runes
05-15-2005, 04:17
"No, they don't know how to make a good historically acurate game."

Steel Panthers
Close Combat

Salazar
05-15-2005, 09:20
Exactly, most Games by Sega that i played were quite fun, well balanced, not too buggy (at least not as excessive as RTW) and if they were meant to be they were also most often quite historical. Spartan total Warrior of Course is more Fantasylike.

Ps: Eb will of course be more fun, Bug free, historical etc ~D

Rodion Romanovich
05-15-2005, 19:02
Man, I love the fact that you decided to include Baktria in your mod! The pictures above made me want to perhaps play Baktria before I play the Sarmatians as I had planned... Apart from all the nice units, I also happened to notice that you'd done a great job on the terrain - much better terrain than in vanilla R:TW imo. The Baktrion Agema deserve extra credits :). The first in action screenshot, and the in action screenshot of all the archers who had just fired their arrows, really got me into the athmosphere.

The Wizard
05-15-2005, 23:15
The Baktrians are one of my favorites just because of their location... all those Greek colonies lost out in Transoxania and the Hindu Kush... just plain Romanticism!

And those Indo-Greeks... even though I saw them a good while before you guys did, I still ain't over them! They're amazing! That shield! OMG I'm gonna faint :fainting:



~Wiz

Teleklos Archelaou
05-15-2005, 23:27
The Baktrians are one of my favorites just because of their location... all those Greek colonies lost out in Transoxania and the Hindu Kush... just plain Romanticism!
And those Indo-Greeks... even though I saw them a good while before you guys did, I still ain't over them! They're amazing! That shield! OMG I'm gonna faint :fainting:
~WizFrom Bactria he entered Sogdiana
Across the fertile pastures of Ferghana,
The hunting lands of arrow, spear and sabre,
Of Ghengis Khan and Tamerlane and Baber.
His Macedonian coins still come to hand
In Merv, Bukhara and in Samarkand.
V. Mersey, Alexander of Macedon

And here's a great story about the discovery of the largest gold coin ever minted in the ancient world - from Bactria of course ~;) :


In fact, no single Bactrian coin has ever caused such a stir as his great gold masterpiece. This massive 20-stater coin is of the standard Eucratides type, with portrait of the king on the obverse wearing a commander's cloak, a royal diadem and a great plumed helmet decorated with the ears and horns of a bull. The reverse offers the king's usual type, two mounted horsemen—the heavenly twins, the Dioscuri of Greek legend—charging to the right. Eucratides's usual titles appear on the coin as well. It is not the style, exceptionally fine though it is, which makes this, in the words of one expert, "the rarest coin in the world"; it is the extraordinary size. At 63 millimeters in diameter (2½ inches) and more than 169 grams (six ounces) of Bactrian gold, it is the largest such coin ever minted in the ancient world, apparently to celebrate the king's conquest of Demetrius of India. There is only one specimen known in the world today—but that such a huge coin could escape the melting pot at all is amazing luck for us.

The unusual story of this coin's discovery can be tracked down through various newspaper accounts from over a century ago. In June of 1867, a French numismatist associated with the British Museum was dining with a group of collectors in London. One of the guests told about a strange encounter he had had that day with a shabby beggar trying to sell an ancient coin. He described a gold piece so large that all at the table agreed it must be a forgery. Yet, as the conversation drifted to other numismatic topics, the French expert could not get the gold coin out of his mind. Finally, in what he called "a fit of numismatic fever," he excused himself and set out to follow the trail of the beggar. When the two finally met late one night in a ramshackle London flat, the expert demanded to see the coin at once. The beggar explained that he had come all the way from Bukhara, where he and six others had found the coin. In a matter of minutes, he said, daggers were drawn and five of the men were dead. The two survivors agreed to smuggle the prize to Europe and share whatever price it brought. Then, his story told, the mysterious fellow took off his old coat, his shirt and his undershirt; he lifted his arm and pulled from his armpit a filthy, sweaty leather case with the gold coin sewn inside.

With an "electric shock," the numismatist held the coin and convinced himself that it was no forgery—but he knew that he must conceal his enthusiasm as he bargained down the price. The traveler from Bukhara insisted upon £5000 for the giant coin; the expert handed it back and wrote a check ... for £1000, adding coolly that this was his offer for the next 20 minutes. After that, he said, "I'll give you only £800, and so on until I get to £500. If you don't close the deal tonight, tomorrow I will not take the coin at any price."

They stared at each other for more than 19 minutes. Then the beggar snatched the check for £1000, and handed over the coin.' "This," reported the numismatist to the new papers, "is the rarest coin in the world, and the one for which the highest price has been paid. Since it cost the lives of five men, I do not think anything more was paid for it than it was really worth. It ought to have been saved for the delectation of numismatic amateurs in all times to come, even had fifty or one hundred lives been sacrificed."

If you have in mind some numismatic delectation of your own, however, do not ask to see the coin at the British Museum. Though associated with that great institution, the buyer was a Frenchman first of all. Through the special attentions of Emperor Louis-Napoléon, the 20-stater gold piece of Eucratides was immediately purchased by the Bibliothèque Impériale, now the Bibliothèque Nationale, in Paris.
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/199403/a.history.in.silver.and.gold.htm

Big_John
05-15-2005, 23:36
And those Indo-Greeks...yeah, that skin is ridiculous! i love the bears (?) on the breastplate and that patterned shirt and shield.. who did those? there are some skinning masters on this mod team. strange thing about that shirt, i hardly notice the "crotch"-stretching problem i've seen on other skins.

pezhetairoi
05-16-2005, 04:16
Ah, modifying factions is one thing, but creating another one altogether is a feat indeed. Good job! Now...what about the Indians? :-)

Valens
05-16-2005, 08:10
Holy crap those archers have spare bows! Cool

jerby
05-16-2005, 11:05
wow, great. really

about those Indohellenikoi Hoplitai there are both skirmishers and melee. but the discription reads that thureophoroi should be used to finish it off in melee. does this mean that the Indohellenikoi Hoplitai are inferior to thureophoroi?

the heavy assault units looks great, whats it called? lov ethe shield size.

wich reminds me. will al hoplite shield be that big? how big will pikemen shields be, like in the pic. or is it wip?

Steppe Merc
05-16-2005, 13:17
Ah, modifying factions is one thing, but creating another one altogether is a feat indeed. Good job! Now...what about the Indians? :-)
They won't be their own faction. Not enough of our map includes them to warrant an entire faction.

Mongoose
05-16-2005, 15:17
They can't add factions, they had to axe numida.

But it was worth it ~:)

jerby
05-16-2005, 15:55
numidia sucked anyway. hated them. only had like 9 units.

Furious Mental
05-16-2005, 16:37
Well if the EB crew did Numidia they'd no doubt have about a million ideas for Numidian units.

Sfwartir
05-16-2005, 18:31
I'll make this first posting of mine a salute to the EB team.
May your lives be long and prosperous ones, may your Hondas never break down in traffic and may you always be accompanied by 'appreciative camp followers'.

Baktria really does look astonishing..guess it'll be Baktria first for me, once EB is all done and ready to go. Whooo-hooo!

By the by, the Baktrion Agemata's 'duck' helmets, aren't they what the Hetairoi also wore in real life? Looks familiar.

tibilicus
05-16-2005, 19:52
Wow first real look at EB and it is truley as awsome as people have said ! Might even take this and not bother with BI when its out.

jerby
05-16-2005, 20:19
BI? whats that?

alman7272
05-16-2005, 21:08
BI? whats that?

The RTW expansion, Barbarian Invasion.

Big_John
05-16-2005, 21:25
Wow first real look at EB and it is truley as awsome as people have said ! Might even take this and not bother with BI when its out.i think it's safe to say that EB will be the reason i buy the expansion, if it enables EB to improve their mod.

Sheep
05-16-2005, 22:19
i think it's safe to say that EB will be the reason i buy the expansion, if it enables EB to improve their mod.

Fo' sho'

Ancientgamer
05-16-2005, 22:30
Ya, im looking forward to what the modders will do with the expansion more so than what creative will do. Heh, they dont care as long as I fork over the dough.

alman7272
05-16-2005, 23:36
i think it's safe to say that EB will be the reason i buy the expansion, if it enables EB to improve their mod.

You're not the only one.~:cheers:

pezhetairoi
05-17-2005, 04:37
Hey Sfwartir, welcome to the org!

You're right, the Agemata helmets were a common Alexandrian accessory, possibly second only to the Phrygian-style helmets. 'Duck' helmets, though, completely eludes. They don't look so much like ducks as curtains draped across the temples.

LegVIIGemina-Tarraconense
05-17-2005, 14:06
Just to say hello. This is my first message in this forum. As far as I can see from the posts, most of you are from the US, and very few people come from the Roman Empire (Hispania, Galia, Italia, Britania, etc). This is curious, at least. By the way, your mod looks fantastic, much better than RTR which I am playing now. Many greetings from Barcino, Tarraconense (today Barcelona ~:)

eadingas
05-17-2005, 14:12
What makes you say that? Most of EB team is, IIRC, from Europe, or of European descent...
and where do you all Iberians come from, honestly! another one!

Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2005, 14:34
Just to say hello. This is my first message in this forum. As far as I can see from the posts, most of you are from the US, and very few people come from the Roman Empire (Hispania, Galia, Italia, Britania, etc). This is curious, at least. By the way, your mod looks fantastic, much better than RTR which I am playing now. Many greetings from Barcino, Tarraconense (today Barcelona ~:)In fact, there are 5 Iberians on the team (I am one of them) and most of the team is from Europe, although we have quite a few citizens of the USA.

Dux Corvanus
05-17-2005, 14:41
In fact, there are 5 Iberians on the team (I am one of them) and most of the team is from Europe, although we have quite a few citizens of the USA.

Sarcasm, Angadil, Aymar and me... Who's the fifth? ~:confused:

BTW, Tarraconense, greetings from Gadir/Gades... ~:wave:

Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2005, 14:44
Sarcasm, Angadil, Aymar and me... Who's the fifth? ~:confused: Well, then I was wrong. There are 6 Iberians in EB. To that list you have to add [cF]Hanbaal and Deadrunner, both Portuguese.

eadingas
05-17-2005, 14:48
and isn't there one American of iberian descent?

Dux Corvanus
05-17-2005, 15:25
Well, then I was wrong. There are 6 Iberians in EB. To that list you have to add [cF]Hanbaal and Deadrunner, both Portuguese.

Lusitania 4, Celtiberia 2...

Pedro, bring the muskets! :laugh4:


and isn't there one American of iberian descent?

In fact, many American EB members are also somehow represented in the game... ~;)

Ellesthyan
05-17-2005, 15:42
extremely interesting story, Teleklos. Though the site where it is seems a little... overinterested in mythical places. It does beg the question wether there are no Indian sources on Bactria? Apparently they've bashed at least the north west of India quite and should've left some impression. White colored, powerful troops from such a backward place as Bactria would have been noticed, I think, by the Indians.

jerby
05-17-2005, 16:42
never would have guessed sarcasm is iberian. where is khevlan is american isnt he?

Teleklos Archelaou
05-17-2005, 16:56
extremely interesting story, Teleklos. Though the site where it is seems a little... overinterested in mythical places. It does beg the question wether there are no Indian sources on Bactria? Apparently they've bashed at least the north west of India quite and should've left some impression. White colored, powerful troops from such a backward place as Bactria would have been noticed, I think, by the Indians.Frank Holt, the guy who wrote the article, is the most trustworthy source that has yet written on Baktria (IMHO). He's done a lot to break down the myths of Baktria without constructing something else that's imaginary. Mostly a numismatist. The part about India and their impression there is very interesting, but virtually nothing survives in the climate (stone being an exception) and outside of oral history that was later transcribed and word of mouth that reached the greeks (Plutarch knew of Menander-the great Baktrian-Indian king, but didn't write a history of his life), there is little to go on. Maybe some archaeology will help clear it up one day, but it will always remain obscure. A century or so after arriving, the Baktrians were mostly absorbed into Indian culture as a whole. Art historians have had a blast with stone sculptures though and some big controversies have occurred over greek influence on early indian sculptures of Buddha and other religious themes. I highly recommend Holt's book "Thundering Zeus", even Tarn's or Sidky's histories of Baktria if you can't get Holt.

The Wizard
05-17-2005, 17:30
Just to say hello. This is my first message in this forum. As far as I can see from the posts, most of you are from the US, and very few people come from the Roman Empire (Hispania, Galia, Italia, Britania, etc). This is curious, at least. By the way, your mod looks fantastic, much better than RTR which I am playing now. Many greetings from Barcino, Tarraconense (today Barcelona ~:)

We have plenty of Europeans on the team... Iberians, Britons, Germans, etc... to use the ancient terms. ~;)

Personally I'm from the Netherlands, or Germania Inferior (mostly; everything outside Germania Inferior is periphery anyways...). But I do Parthia along with sharrukin and Steppe Merc, who're from the US (?). You don't need to be from the place to know a lot about it, and be correct about what you know. If anything, it helps you be unbiased and open to many opinions about the subject.

Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.



~Wiz

Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2005, 17:56
never would have guessed sarcasm is iberian. where is khevlan is american isnt he?khelvan, not khevlan. And yes, he is an US citizen.

Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-17-2005, 18:14
Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.The area has seen it's share of conflict throughout the ages. Just in the middle ages, Charlemagne and successors, French, Burgundians, English, Spanish, etc...

IIRC, Spanish intervention there was motivated by those Habsburg heritages scatered all over Europe during Charles V's empire. That was not an easy domain to manage for a small country like Spain that had colonies scatered in the americas too.

Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V%2C_Holy_Roman_Emperor)

And you must remember that Portugal was not involved in the process. Read some of our stories in the Indias against you Dutch pirates... :wink:

Besides, remember the Spanish tercios? They did make the Dutch's fight for independence a very hard task.

Dux Corvanus
05-17-2005, 18:59
Those silly Iberians... tried to dominate the Burgundian Kreis... or, well, the modern Netherlands.

I see the Duke of Alba's shadow is a long shadow... ~:rolleyes:


That was not an easy domain to manage for a small country like Spain that had colonies scatered in the americas too.

Well, scattered is not the word. Apart from the Low Countries, half Italy and the Philippines, Spain dominated all America from North California, Texas and Florida to Patagonia, except that big sick jungle full of head hunters and mosquitos... how is it? ~;)

Besides, around that era, and for a century, we also tried to dominate -without much success- a small country that had colonies scattered in Africa and SE Asia, opening European commerce to Japan and China... ~;p



Besides, remember the Spanish tercios? They did make the Dutch's fight for independence a very hard task.


And among the bravest in the Tercios, no few Portuguese fought against the heretic scum.
Iberia rules! ~:cheers:

khelvan
05-17-2005, 19:06
never would have guessed sarcasm is iberian. where is khevlan is american isnt he?是,我是美国人

Dux Corvanus
05-17-2005, 19:13
是,我是美国人

So hard-headed. That's why we call him kevlar. ~:joker:

Mmmm, Chinese characters look like tiny TV antennas to me... ~:confused:

TheTank
05-17-2005, 19:15
是,我是美国人

A Japanese American?!

Dux Corvanus
05-17-2005, 19:17
A Japanese American?!

He just committed seppuku!!! ~:joker:

khelvan
05-17-2005, 19:28
A Japanese American?!
我不是日本人

TheTank
05-17-2005, 19:42
我不是日本人
I am not the Japanese..........?!

Babelfish ;-)

是,我是美国人=Yes, I am an American

This is funny game ~;)

:bow: :bow: :bow:

DemonArchangel
05-17-2005, 19:45
So you're Chinese Khelvan? Or did you use a translator?

khelvan
05-17-2005, 19:54
Neither. :bow:

我学中文

Furious Mental
05-17-2005, 19:59
You study Chinese too? Tones are my nemesis!

TheTank
05-17-2005, 20:01
Neither. :bow:

我学中文

Do you study mandarin or kantonese or both languages?!

khelvan
05-17-2005, 20:13
Mandarin. However, the characters are universal - the meaning, at least. A Mandarin and Cantonese speaker can communicate with no misunderstandings through the written language. The meanings are the same, the pronunciation much different. Even some Japanese characters are shared, so a Chinese speaker may be able to decipher some small portion of written Japanese.

Furious Mental
05-17-2005, 20:17
I think Zhongwen refers to Mandarin.

Han
05-17-2005, 21:55
haha I am chinese and learning to write chinese, that is...Mandarin, oh ya I also speak a bit Fujianese but I understand(listen) it very well, one of the hardest provincinal languages in China ~D

Idomeneas
05-18-2005, 01:01
units as whole are of very high quality. But allow me some notices (i know there is work to be done yet).
The metal surfaces could use alittle more work in meshes and gradients.
the horses nostrils(sp?) of Bactrian Cataphracts seems to be too close to each other reducing the perspective width of horse head. Its a detail but details compile the whole ~:)
BTH did you saw Blue Lotus mod horses? They look very very good. How about borrowing them ~;)

Aymar de Bois Mauri
05-18-2005, 02:33
Well, scattered is not the word. Apart from the Low Countries, half Italy and the Philippines, Spain dominated all America from North California, Texas and Florida to Patagonia, except that big sick jungle full of head hunters and mosquitos... how is it? ~;) Ah! Yes. That little piece of land that only encompasses 70% of total area and has about 60% of all economical wealth of South America. It's called by some tree that only appears there, right? :thinking: Is it something like... ...Brasil? :wink:


Besides, around that era, and for a century, we also tried to dominate -without much success- a small country that had colonies scattered in Africa and SE Asia, opening European commerce to Japan and China... ~;p And you only got 3 kings here because they were cousins of the deceased and heirless D.Sebastião. :wink:

Let's not delve in to Portugal-Spain warfare or we'll be here all night...


And among the bravest in the Tercios, no few Portuguese fought against the heretic scum.
Iberia rules! ~:cheers:Watch out for The Wizard's reply... :scared:

Furious Mental
05-18-2005, 07:28
Do you use pinyin to help learn characters? I find it rather helpful.

Dux Corvanus
05-18-2005, 14:34
Let's not delve in to Portugal-Spain warfare or we'll be here all night...

Why worry? You won them all...


Watch out for The Wizard's reply...

They also won in the end...

And Albion is to be blamed! :inquisitive:

Idomeneas
05-18-2005, 14:53
hmmm.... Better we should talk about portugal spain things i guess...

Angadil
05-18-2005, 15:59
extremely interesting story, Teleklos. Though the site where it is seems a little... overinterested in mythical places. It does beg the question wether there are no Indian sources on Bactria? Apparently they've bashed at least the north west of India quite and should've left some impression. White colored, powerful troops from such a backward place as Bactria would have been noticed, I think, by the Indians.

The Graeco-Bactrians and Indo-Greeks, under the names of Yavanas and Yonakas (=Ionians, i.e Greeks) did leave some traces in Indian sources, though its usefulness is limited. Some examples:

The most extensive and better known is, of course the Milindapanha (Milinda's Questions). A buddhist treatise where the Indo-Greek king Milinda (Menander I Soter) maintains philosophical conversations with the buddhist monk Nagasena. There are references to the structure of Menander's army (prominence of cavalry, inclusion of elephants and a doubtful mention of chariots), and to a possible 500-strong royal boydguard.

The Mahabharata also mentions Yavana mounted warriors and we hear of 3.000 Yavana riders, "highly honored among the heroes". In cavalry-rich Bactria the "Companions" might have been that many

In the Agnimitra, an Indian drama by writer Kalidasa, there is an account of a battle between a Yavana king (seemingly Menander I again) and king Vasumitra, of the Sunga dynasty that might have taken place on the banks of the Indus around 150 BCE. The Yavana's king cavalry is mentioned, but no other troop types.

And that's pretty much all I know of. It does seems to match, however, the prominence of cavalry on the Bactrian military that we can infer from other sources (the 10.000 horsemen at the Arius River in Polybius, frequent depictions of horsemen and of the kings as riders or with cavalry gear in coins).

Turin
05-18-2005, 22:39
Hey Khelvan, are you actually Chinese then?

Anyway, to test your theories about Japanese and Chinese compatability:

貴方は中国人でしょうね?どうでもいい...
とにかく、中国人ではありませんでしたら、貴方の中国語が本当に凄いですよ!

And just for the record:

我也不是日本人!
湖南,长沙,毛泽东的老乡!

The Wizard
05-19-2005, 14:26
Besides, remember the Spanish tercios? They did make the Dutch's fight for independence a very hard task.

Don't forget I'm supposed to be Dutch... I don't have any national pride. ~;)

So I acknowledge that we only won the Eighty Years' War because Spain was way too busy fighting Ottomans, French and others... psyche!

Turns out I'm from Curaçao... ~D

Once the watergeuzen took Brielle, the dam was busted and not even the duke of Alva nor his successor could stop the tide. You guys (talking to the Spanish here -- loosely, not implicating anything ~;)) got pwnd hard -- both your armadas and your armies, both under Stadhouder Maurits! ~D

Before Brielle, Willem van Oranje actually was in a very tenacious position, both with the duke of Alva going around cowing the protestants from revolting and joining the geuzen. Our current national anthem was actually a piece of propaganda made in a desperate time for the Prince -- he needed followers, bad.

But then some opportunists took Brielle! Guess what? There's actually bread to be made fighting the Spanish! Let's go lads, for freedom!

Gotta love the Dutch espiritu mércantil, if you catch my drift. ~;)

And Aymar, Charles V was actually very Burgundian in his way of ruling his empire. He was born and raised in the upper Low Countries (Belgium), and had his court there. He was there for most of his rule, and gave the crown to his son there as well.

Now, Philip II, that was a Spaniard. Not sure if he was born there, but raised certainly. And like any self-respecting Spaniard at the time, he was a deeply catholic man. His decisions against the people of the lower Low Countries (Netherlands) after they trashed the churches and destroyed the statues of saints etc. (we call it Beeldenstorm) were at first succesful, but then reversed as he got involved in other conflicts, and as more and more people started to resist him. His giving out rewards for anyone that killed Willem van Oranje succeeded, but unfortunately for him, Maurits was a very capable military commander, the best in Europe at the time, and with him came a generation of Dutchmen that launched our Gouden Eeuw. Too determined, skilled and vigorous for the busy Spaniards (who nevertheless had a large military presence in what their greatest ruler considered his heartlands).

But let's not have any hard feelings over this, eh? ¡Vamos a la Tropicana, bibiremos mucho ron, fumaremos cigarros cubanos, y bailaremos con las mujeres bonitas, mujeriegos!



~Wiz

Dux Corvanus
05-19-2005, 14:47
Forgive us, I guess we just liked it too much to leave. ~:cheers:

The Wizard
05-19-2005, 15:07
Sure -- 'we' didn't like leaving Indonesia either. ~;)



~Wiz

Moros
05-19-2005, 15:36
You know I had an exam of the eighty years war yesterday : I'm Belgium one of the ones that lost :( , stupid spaniards :p.
btw: the "beeldenstorm started in what now is called Belgium (not far from the coast, but I don't know anymore wich city started.)
but hey without the spaniards I'd be dutch! ~:confused: so the spaniards weren't that bad :p

"gggedverdamme (op z'n Hans Teeuwen), dan was ik hollander gggeweest,heb ik gggeluk gggehad!" (plaaggg,plaagggg)

Ellesthyan
05-19-2005, 17:48
I wouldn't call that luck, Gertgregoor. Belgium became a playground for the European forces; though I doubt the french would have backed of if the Southern Netherlands would've become dutch, but probably a few other wars would have been fought somewhere else. Furthermore, the native language of the Walons, dutch, was through french occupation and colonization made extinct, and the once richest region of Europe with the once most important port had to give away its position and fell down a deep hole.

No, it was not exactly the best scenario for Belgium...

The Wizard
05-19-2005, 22:04
Bah, Antwerp... we should just block off the Schelde with a new part of the Deltawerken and say we're protecting Belgium and Zeeuws-Vlaanderen from flooding. ~D



~Wiz

Moros
05-20-2005, 16:21
Bah, Antwerp... we should just block off the Schelde with a new part of the Deltawerken and say we're protecting Belgium and Zeeuws-Vlaanderen from flooding. ~D



~Wiz
you little basterds :p

-btw: I know it ruined our once very good economy and big ports (first brugge later Antwerps) but I was just teasing the dutch. wich are in quite big numbers here.
I know al of that,( my exam:12/13 woohoo!) but it came all just fine didn't, we might not be a major power, we might even be a small dot on the map with no big things but still I'm proud to be a belgium!

jerby
05-20-2005, 17:42
well, now that you mention it. there indeed are quite a few dutch. *grin*

antiochus epiphanes
12-01-2005, 05:57
god i love this preview!

Casmin
12-02-2005, 17:58
I love the detail on the hoplon interiors! Keep up the great work guys!~:)

jerby
12-05-2005, 20:28
but still I'm proud to be a belgium!
this i hear so seldom, i shoudl put it in my sig..