"Kissing Cousins"

[GoreBag]

Did anyone else here read about the marriage that was refused in Pennsylvania?

Kissing Cousins (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/24/AR2005042401406.html)

It was in the paper this morning. I couldn't resist the urge to check the Backroom for discussion about it, thinking that it must be old news in Amurrica, but I guess I'm the one to start it. Just for reference, consanguineous marriage is also legal in Canada.

[King Edward]

Thants just wrong....

[Fragony]

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/04/24/PH2005042401419.jpg

Seems like they are holding up a family tradition.

ugly people shouldn't breed.

[King Edward]

She does look like a bulldog chewing a wasp.......

[monkian]

lol - The first paragraph contains the word 'trailer park' and their Mothers are Sisters... :dizzy2: :dizzy2:

[GoreBag]

That's actually the first thing I thought too. In the article in the paper, Andrew was quoted as to having said "..we was.." to a reporter. I'd link, but an online subscription is required.

[English assassin]

They settled down in their blue-and-white mobile home with three dogs, a cat, two guinea pigs named Beavis and Butt-Head, and an iguana that loves to eat kiwi.

Andrews collects disability payments from the government. Amrhein works at the courtesy desk at Wal-Mart.

"I tell people I married her for the health benefits and the Wal-Mart discount card," Andrews said, only half-joking.

They kid each other a lot and share many interests, such as camping and fishing. They agree to disagree on other things. He smokes Jacks 100's; she prefers Marlboros.

Boy oh boy oh boy.

Still, part of me thinks, why ruin two families. I've a feeling cousins can marry in the UK too, in fact I think its compulsory in Norfolk ...

[ICantSpellDawg]

the floodgates have opened

if we cant stop one travesty, the moral base has eroded and will be unable to stop another

there are even less reasons why family cannot marry than there are for homosexuals

[King Edward]

Lol EA, you want to see some of the true locals in the Channel islands! 25 mile sqr island results in some 'interesting' characteristics among the populous. I think mainlanders were brought in specifically to widen the gene pool! :eeeek:

[Al Khalifah]

Perhaps America's downfall will come the same way as that of Sparta... too much imbreeding...

[LittleGrizzly]

I could understand it if his cousin was a model or something....

[ICantSpellDawg]

Perhaps America's downfall will come the same way as that of Sparta... too much imbreeding...

actually, it is called inbreeding

where are you from, al?

[Goofball]

This was my favorite bit:


Six years ago, he proposed to her at the jewelry case in Wal-Mart after they spied a pair of wedding bands on sale.

[Husar]

I married her for the health benefits

Erm, yes, especially those of your ugly children... :dizzy2:

[Fragony]

Ok if you want to see something really scary, follow this link

http://www.telefoongids.ptt-telecom.nl/

It is the dutch telephone book, go to the green part. At 'wie' type 'Koelewijn'(name) and at 'plaats' 'bunschoten-spakenburg' (town).

I cannot stress enough that idyllic town has only 10.000 residents.

Be afraid.

[Byzantine Prince]

Why is this called "kissing cousins"? I kiss my cousin, we're not sick or anything. That's what you're suposed to do with family.

I find this hillarious though.

[Ja'chyra]

I thought this kind of thing was encouraged in Utah and certain Hebridean islands

[Don Corleone]

I think they should release a "Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee" style video and every legal jurisdiction in the country should own a copy. It would be the perfect alternative to the death penalty for serial rapists. After watching Two-ton-tessie and her cousin Bojo going at it, you wouldn't even be able to think about sex. It would fry your entire hypothalmus... problem solved.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

It's Pennsylvania, what do you expect?
I can say that because I live here!

[DemonArchangel]

Inbreeding.
I'd rather have gay marriage thank you very much....
At least with Gay Marriages, I don't have to look at the kids.

[Don Corleone]

Yeah, I kinda have to agree. This one goes beyond my 'legal marriage only' boundary of gay marriage. This one falls under "you should never be allowed to marry anyone for even thinking like this". Inbreeding just makes my skin crawl, and my cousins are actually kinda hot.

[Goofball]

Inbreeding just makes my skin crawl, and my cousins are actually kinda hot.

Tall, strong, athletic guys, are they?

~D

[Don Corleone]

Hey, they were the belles of the ball at my wedding. My buddy from work got in a LOT of trouble for oggling more than was wise towards the end of the evening. Cousins didn't mind the attention, but his live-in girlfriend sure had a thing or two to say about it.

[Al Khalifah]

actually, it is called inbreeding

where are you from, al?
Sorry my 6th finger slipped onto the 'm' key by mistake, damn inbreeding...
I'm from England, but I move around a lot due to the nature of my work - hell I was in Iraq two months ago (the two nouns in that sentance should probably be reversed). In case you're trying to claim I'm inbred I should just point out I'm not from Cornwall/Wales.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Cornwall/Wales.

North Wales...

[ah_dut]

Inbreeding.
I'd rather have gay marriage thank you very much....
At least with Gay Marriages, I don't have to look at the kids.
Good point...seriously though, don't go there...incest is wrong for many reasons...homosexuality doesn't disrupt the gene pool much but incest royally creates new issues let's just leave it at that

[Oaty]

For 1 it is illegal for first cousins to marry, So they are at least second cousins are better.

When I was 5 and realized girls were different....... well anyways I raised amok for grabbing my cousins boobs and asking what they were

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Good point...seriously though, don't go there...incest is wrong for many reasons...homosexuality doesn't disrupt the gene pool much but incest royally creates new issues let's just leave it at that

Come on ah_Dut. The Backroom has already decided that two consenting adults can do whatever they want, no matter how it affects society.



When I was 5 and realized girls were different....... well anyways I raised amok for grabbing my cousins boobs and asking what they were
LoL. My cousins are pretty attractive, I have to admit. In fact, there was a slightly similar situation to Don Corleone's wedding. Slightly.

[Spetulhu]

Cousins may marry here, but I think they have to get an extra license for it.

It's mostly an issue in rural villages anyway. People don't want outsiders gaining a foothold on the farm or they want to (re-)unite some farms. Or they simply can't find a spouse outside the village since they're unwilling to leave.

[mercian billman]

I think I heard somewhere that the chances of a inbred couple having a child with a genetic defect was only 6% compared to %4 for non cousins. In addition both partners must carry the reccesive gene for it to take effect, that being said these two getting together is just gross.

[DemonArchangel]

Still... Inbreeding is disgusting.

[BDC]

LoL. My cousins are pretty attractive, I have to admit. In fact, there was a slightly similar situation to Don Corleone's wedding. Slightly.

Much better to just go after the daughters of the father-of-the-bride's old school friends.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Still... Inbreeding is disgusting.



hahahaha

some moral codes never cease to amaze me
would it be disgusting if these people were hot and well spoken?

we are all related

[Byzantine Prince]

hahahaha

some moral codes never cease to amaze me
would it be disgusting if these people were hot and well spoken?
That would be considered cute(as in cute couple ~D ).

Although I have a very attractive cousin I'm afraid the people around me would look at me weird if I made a move. Hell people would never talk to me if I did that.

[ICantSpellDawg]

That would be considered cute(as in cute couple ~D ).

Although I have a very attractive cousin I'm afraid the people around me would look at me weird if I made a move. Hell people would never talk to me if I did that.

but honestly
who cares?

they love one another and they are physically attracted to one another
they are consenting adults

we are all related

to be honest - if gays should be married, this is a no brainer

[AggonyKing]

Honestly I don't have a porblem with inbreeding. Let them marrry each other if they want too, none of my business.

I'm sure they know the risks when it comes to having a kid


and yeah I have a hot cousin too @_@

[bmolsson]

I can't see anything wrong with this. If they are both consenting adults, let them be.....

In the case of inbreeding, it's up to the people in question to take the risk. The insurance company on the other hand should be able to put a condition for any medical risks.......

[Byzantine Prince]

The only thing wrong with that picture is that they are so damn ugly and common. Gah! If they were better looking we wouldn't make such fuss over them.

I personally find nothing wrong with it, although I would doing it myself for fear of being seen the wrong way( people calling me a degenerate etc. ).

[GoreBag]

For 1 it is illegal for first cousins to marry, So they are at least second cousins are better.

Not so much.

I think that it can be generally agreed that everyone has a hot cousin, kind of like how everyone has an uncle who smokes pot (or is an uncle who smokes pot).

[Al Khalifah]

Surely if this is allowed, it's only a matter of time before brothers start falling in love with sisters. Give them an inch and they take a mile...

[Steppe Merc]

I think that it can be generally agreed that everyone has a hot cousin, kind of like how everyone has an uncle who smokes pot (or is an uncle who smokes pot).
Yup. ~D
Well he used to smoke pot, he was a hippie, after all (and my aunt...) Not sure if he still does... he used to be an alcholic too... Oh wait, my other uncle probably does as well. He owns his own farm.
And all of my cousins are either over 7 years older, or like 10 years younger than me... One is married, and she's certaintly hot. But I was too much of a coward to dance with her at her wedding...

[Ja'chyra]

Well he used to smoke pot, he was a hippie, after all (and my aunt...)

Your uncle's also your aunt??? ~:eek: Or did I read that wrong ~D

[GoreBag]

Surely if this is allowed, it's only a matter of time before brothers start falling in love with sisters. Give them an inch and they take a mile...

Who are you kidding? 1 in every 100 women in the US has had sex with her older brother. If they're not falling in love now, will they ever?

Besides, consanguineous marriage was already legal in Maryland. These people, white trash, ugly and stupid thought they may be, are not the first people to marry within their family.

[Al Khalifah]

1 in every 100 women in the US has had sex with her older brother.
Please tell me thats not true... PLEASE PLEASE tell me that just isn't true.

[King Edward]

Thant is one of the most disturbing statistics i have ever heard.......

[Ser Clegane]

Thant is one of the most disturbing statistics i have ever heard.......

That's it? That was your "truly inspirational post to hit my 1,000 post mark"???

I have to say, I feel a little bit empty now... ~:handball:

~D

[AggonyKing]

so how did you come out with this statistic?

[King Edward]

:laugh4: Its almost time to go home from work and I'm tired so it was about as inspirational as i could get! also I've posted more than i normally do and am running out of things that i feel i know enough about to comment on! (not that any of my posts have been inspirational in any way today!)

But you have to admit, it is a disturbing statistic :uneasy:

[Al Khalifah]

Yeah, but where did it come from?

Or is it one of the 33.7% of statistics made up by more than half the population on the spot.

[doc_bean]

The statistic does sound very high, on the other hand, I think things like that happen more than you'd expect, that's why in the old days, they made sure to keep the boys and girls separated.

And I don't have a problem with people marrying their cousins, it's done in a lot of cultures, that don't seem to have degenerated.

[ah_dut]

Come on ah_Dut. The Backroom has already decided that two consenting adults can do whatever they want, no matter how it affects society.

LoL. My cousins are pretty attractive, I have to admit. In fact, there was a slightly similar situation to Don Corleone's wedding. Slightly.
It does affect society...inbreeding causes more genetic errors than usual no? Well that's what I learnt in my biology lesson last week ~:eek: They were teaching us how to breed aggresiveness etc outta rats...apparantly incest is the way forward :dizzy2:


Thant is one of the most disturbing statistics i have ever heard.......
indeed

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think I heard somewhere that the chances of a inbred couple having a child with a genetic defect was only 6% compared to %4 for non cousins. In addition both partners must carry the reccesive gene for it to take effect, that being said these two getting together is just gross.

I believe that our gene pools have been so mixed that inbreeding no longer is the risk it once was. Its if you keep it on doining it over and over generation after generation where in the problem lies. Today in reality the laws against cousins marrying are pretty meaningless as far as the reason their enforced goes. Its a taboo not really a health risk. Homosexuality is far more of a health risk. At least if your active and even if your not.

[Steppe Merc]

Your uncle's also your aunt??? Or did I read that wrong
Good lord, no. My Mom's sister (my aunt), was a hippie, as was her husband (my uncle). Though I have difficulty imagining him in a Fu Manchu moustache, long hair and bellbottoms as he's now bald. And he's from France (though he grew up in America), and I really don't think of much French people as being hippies...

About the inbreeding, not sure. If that was common in the family, it would probably have some nasty side effects down the line. But as a whole, the gene pool is a lot more diverse now as it was when Kings married their sisters and stuff.

[mercian billman]

I believe that our gene pools have been so mixed that inbreeding no longer is the risk it once was. Its if you keep it on doining it over and over generation after generation where in the problem lies.

Agreed.



Today in reality the laws against cousins marrying are pretty meaningless as far as the reason their enforced goes. Its a taboo not really a health risk. Homosexuality is far more of a health risk. At least if your active and even if your not.

How is homosexuality a health risk if your not active?

I don't think homosexuality itself is more of a health risk, the problem is a lot of homosexual men tend to have multiple partners, and anal sex, which in itself is a health risk.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Originally Posted by me
Come on ah_Dut. The Backroom has already decided that two consenting adults can do whatever they want, no matter how it affects society.

LoL. My cousins are pretty attractive, I have to admit. In fact, there was a slightly similar situation to Don Corleone's wedding. Slightly.

It does affect society...inbreeding causes more genetic errors than usual no? Well that's what I learnt in my biology lesson last week They were teaching us how to breed aggresiveness etc outta rats...apparantly incest is the way forward
I was kidding, mostly. Its kind of a reference to the same-sex marriage battles we've had in the backroom. ~:cool:

[Papewaio]

but honestly
who cares?


Double the rate of birth defects and handicapped.

Is it morally right for someone in lust to create retarded children?

If a child is retarded we as a society should do our best to look after them. But with double the amount it means either half the resources do the job or taking away from other parts of the health care system.

So should we shut down the cancer ,maternity or elderly wards first to look after the kissing cousins inbred offspring?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

How is homosexuality a health risk if your not active?

Mental health. Check the suicide rates and depression.

[DemonArchangel]

Err... Gawain? Too much pot and conservatism there man.

I think the suicide rates and depression are the result of oppression from folks like you, not from homosexuality itself.

And if they were hot and well spoken, I would think even less of them. At least rednecks know no better.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think the suicide rates and depression are the result of oppression from folks like you, not from homosexuality itself.

Excuse me? How do I oppress homosexuals? Also what are folks like me? You dont think that believing you have say a womans brain in a mans body might cause you some depression? Stop trying to play the homophobia card . Its old and boring.

[LittleGrizzly]

Excuse me? How do I oppress homosexuals? Also what are folks like me? You dont think that believing you have say a womans brain in a mans body might cause you some depression? Stop trying to play the homophobia card . Its old and boring.

i think he has a point (barring the you part) some people would treat you badly for being gay especially in school, i think he's saying they are the cause of higher suicide rates and depression, i would agree.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

i think he has a point (barring the you part) some people would treat you badly for being gay especially in school, i think he's saying they are the cause of higher suicide rates and depression, i would agree.

And they do it because your fat or short or ugly or tall or any number of other reasons. Neither of you have addressed ny question. If you believed you had the mind of a girl in a mans body that wouldnt deppress you? Lets talk common sense here. Peer pressure or not that sure to have a negative affect on your physcy.

[Byzantine Prince]

Gawain what are you ranting about. Geays are not womans's brains in man's bodies. They just like to have sex with other men. They don't think they are women. Those are transexuals!
And no even they are not that depressed. The reason gays become depressed is that people like you tell them they are not natural and that they are freaks. That why they kill themselves.

[LittleGrizzly]

And they do it because your fat or short or ugly or tall or any number of other reasons.

exactly!!

Neither of you have addressed ny question. If you believed you had the mind of a girl in a mans body that wouldnt deppress you?

not all gays believe their women trapped in mens bodys, theres been both gay and straight people who have believed they were in the wrong gender body.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And no even they are not that depressed. The reason gays become depressed is that people like you tell them they are not natural and that they are freaks. That why they kill themselves.

You dont think that you would natuarly think your different by being attracted to the same sex when society and all around you are straight? No one has to tell you your different or that this is not the way nature intended . Call me anything you like Im not about to kill myself. Dont go trying to blame me.

[AntiochusIII]

You dont think that you would natuarly think your different by being attracted to the same sex when society and all around you are straight? No one has to tell you your different or that this is not the way nature intended . Call me anything you like Im not about to kill myself. Dont go trying to blame me.Hmm...but these gays did not just recieve a single insult once, or twice. Unfortunately, what happens seems to be:
-continuous personal attacks on the gays depresses them.
-actually, some people acts madly when they realize their close relatives are gays. Imagine a really close relative (whom you really love - in a way that doesn't cross into incest, by the way) calls you a freak just because you are what you are.
-those who show their gay tendency early (hence, not actually "abundant", but not freaks as you *seems* to think) were bullied in school. This kind of bully is dangerous in the long run.
-those who hides their gayness were as depressed as any other person hiding major parts of themselves from the world. It is depressing.
-why - calling people freaks once in a while won't kill them. But the gay issue is very high right now and many radical, loud, "gay are freaks" people speaking in media are harmful to one's mind.

etc.

Back to topic: these incest people are sick...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Back to topic: these incest people are sick...

I find homosexuality far more sick. Incest is far more natural. Laws were only made against it when it was found to cause birth defects not because it was considered unatural or immoral. I thank god I never had a good looking sister. Or ant sister at all for that matter ~:)


Hmm...but these gays did not just recieve a single insult once, or twice. Unfortunately, what happens seems to be:

Well dont go around bragging your gay then. Look I dont beleive this is really the case here anymore anyway. Im shooked at the college where I work at all the rainbow coaltion papwers hanging up all over the campus. You wouls definetly realise that gays out number young republicans on campus by a large margin ~;) How is it young republicans arent killing themselves as they get far worse treatment on campus than do gays ~D

[Laridus Konivaich]

I think that we should allow consanguinious/incestuous marriages, but at a price: mandatory removal of reproductive organs from both parties. This will certainly deal with the problem of birth defects, since there will not be any births by the marriage. The added bonus is that these people are not passing their genes on to the next generation, so...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think that we should allow consanguinious/incestuous marriages, but at a price: mandatory removal of reproductive organs from both parties.

Why when the probability of defects is almost identical to others who are not related?

[bmolsson]

Why is everyone so concerned over getting gays "cured"? Just let them be....

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Why is everyone so concerned over getting gays "cured"? Just let them be....

Gays cant have children by their union so what are you trying to say? Theres is no concern over them having children through intercourse.

[mercian billman]

Theres is no concern over them having children through intercourse.

Aint that a relief ~D

[Papewaio]

Why when the probability of defects is almost identical to others who are not related?

From the article:


The study, published in the Journal of Genetic Counseling in April 2002, found that the risk of birth defects ran about twice as high -- about 6 to 8 percent -- for cousins, compared with about 3 to 4 percent for unrelated couples.

Twice the chance of defects.

[Laridus Konivaich]

Why when the probability of defects is almost identical to others who are not related?
Because incest tends to run in families, or socio-economic groups within certain areas. The chance of defects increases with each generation that engages in incest.

[bmolsson]

Gays cant have children by their union so what are you trying to say? Theres is no concern over them having children through intercourse.

The modern marriage has very little to do with children in a modern society.

My point was that people here still seems so engaged in the "curing" of the gay flu spreading over the world. Since you cant' catch it (regardless if it's a choice or genetic thingy), why worry ? Just let them be....

[bmolsson]

Because incest tends to run in families, or socio-economic groups within certain areas. The chance of defects increases with each generation that engages in incest.

Isn't it also a fact that if you have a high level of geniouses in the family, the chance of getting another genious will increase as well ??
It's not only defects that increases...... ~;)

[GoreBag]

so how did you come out with this statistic?

The public library, actually. A friend of mine had found this book that had a big, parabol involving a couple who decided to clone themselves instead of having kids (for whatever reason). Eventually, the husband began to feel more and more attracted to his "daughter", even though she was just a clone of his wife.

At the end of his apparently sick fantasy tale, the reader discovers that the "son", actually the clone of the husband, had been having sex with the "daughter" for quite some time. The whole thing was meant to evoke disgust about incest even though they're technically not related at all.

After the little story, the author explains why he wrote it, and then presents statistics on incest in the US. 1 in every 100 American women has had sex with her older brother (I assume that it means 1 in every 100 American women who have an older, no 1 in EVERY 100), and that 1 in every 50 American women has had sex with her own father. He went on to present that the statistics aren't skewed because of the South - they're just as common, if not more common, in big, modern cities as with whom are generally considered hicks.

I never checked the bibliography; I was too busy laughing in a fit of shock. I'll see if I can find it again - it's been a while, but I distinctly remember the numbers, as I related them to my friends for a while until they were all as surprised and confused as I first was.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Twice the chance of defects.

Its still only a 3 or 4 % difference

[Don Corleone]

Okay, in another thread, KiwiTT was saying he was hoping to win a debate with Gawain. Well dude, here's your chance. Big G is arguing that 'bah, so what if a few of the kids come out looking like uncle fester, first cousins should be able to hit it when the mood hit". If you can't win this one, I'll be a monkey's uncle.

Gawain, just for the record, DID you happen to stray with a cousin at some point? You seem particularly invested in this issue...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Gawain, just for the record, DID you happen to stray with a cousin at some point? You seem particularly invested in this issue...

Nah Im just playing devils advocate . Someones got to stick up for these people. I do have a few nieces Id like to shag though. ~;)

[AntiochusIII]

Its still only a 3 or 4 % differenceA difference, nonetheless. And I doubt you would like to be in that 3-4% difference that borns with defects. As you yourself once stood for (during the Schiavo controversy) that a life matters - a single 0.1% difference that decides a human's life matters. Incest is sick, for this matter.

[Byzantine Prince]

How is incest sick? Who cares as long as you love the other person. A 4 percent difference is negligent IMO. I don't get what the big deal is. You don't HAVE to have kids. Or you could have just one later on and that would be a very high chance it's gonna come out normal.

[Papewaio]

Its still only a 3 or 4 % difference

Or double the number of handicapped...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Incest is sick, for this matter.

I fail to see any reason why incest is sick if its between two consenting adults. I was just messing aroumd with birth defect stuff but Im serious about this. A good looking intelligent woman is always attractive to me. I may not have sex with her because there is a taboo against it but not because I dont want to.

[AntiochusIII]

How is incest sick? Who cares as long as you love the other person. A 4 percent difference is negligent IMO. I don't get what the big deal is. You don't HAVE to have kids. Or you could have just one later on and that would be a very high chance it's gonna come out normal.Those who practice incest often lack the knowledge of its danger, or ignorant of it, or neglecting it. Thus, they won't care and most likely will have children. Actually - a few percentage of increased defection possibilities matters if that is the fault of incest.

[Byzantine Prince]

Yep, but the chance is only 6% which makes it almost the same as normal rate. The fact is most people don't practice incest so the number of handicapped is so small it's negligent really. It doesn't really make a difference mathematically.

Also I'm sure people who practice incest know what is going on quite well. If they are educated they do anyways.

Also what is it out there that says you have to have kids or even marry to have sex. What kind of world is this? I thought we lived in a liberal society that allows sex between anyone.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Those who practice incest often lack the knowledge of its danger, or ignorant of it, or neglecting it

How do you know this? I think most people learn it in school if not from their parents and churches.


Thus, they won't care and most likely will have children.

? Incest has nothing to do with having children.

You havent answered the question why is incest sick yet .

[Papewaio]

Yep, but the chance is only 6% which makes it almost the same as normal rate. The fact is most people don't practice incest so the number of handicapped is so small it's negligent really. It doesn't really make a difference mathematically.

Also I'm sure people who practice incest know what is going on quite well. If they are educated they do anyways.

Also what is it out there that says you have to have kids or even marry to have sex. What kind of world is this? I thought we lived in a liberal society that allows sex between anyone.


found that the risk of birth defects ran about twice as high -- about 6 to 8 percent -- for cousins, compared with about 3 to 4 percent for unrelated couples.

Normal is half that of cousins. While brother-sister etc would be even a higher amount.

In essence first cousins marrying mean twice as many birth defects. It means twice the cost to the health system or half as much resources for the handicapped.

The only negligent thing is thinking that something that is twice as bad is equal.