Huge Canadian political defection

[Beirut]

Any of you Canadian-types see this?

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/05/17/canada.ap/index.html

This is a Canadian political earthquake. She was a high ranking member of the Conservative party, and now, in the bottom of the ninth, she's defected to the Liberal party and may help them survive being overthrown on Thursday in a vote of non-confidence sponsored by the Conservative party and Bloc Quebecois (seperatists) alliance.

Go Belinda!

Go liberals! (Even though they're a lying pack of unmentionable thieves, they're still light years better than the rest.)

[Don Corleone]

Hell hath no fury, eh? What exactly was the issue she left over? Or did she come clean and admit it was payback for not being elected Conservative party leader?

[Don Corleone]

Not for nothing, but could somebody give me the 5th grade explanation of how a parlimentary system works? You 'call for elections', they're not regularly scheduled?

[Byzantine Prince]

Good for her. She's pretty damn beautiful too.
https://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9254/Stronach.jpg

I believe the issue was that she didn't want to push an election and that she didn't like the direction the conservative party was being taken to.

[Crazed Rabbit]

"I regret to say that I do not believe the (Conservative) Party's leader is truly sensitive to the needs of each part of the country and just how big and complex Canada really is,"

Apparently, she thinks the conservatives aren't sensitive to the bigness of Canada... ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused: . Man, I can smell the BS through my computer screen.

Or maybe, she just wants to get lots of pork so she ca get elected again:


Two weeks ago, Stronach warned that defeating the federal budget in the confidence vote might backfire. She said critical portions of the budget -- particularly the billions of dollars promised for municipal infrastructure -- were extremely important to her north Toronto constituency.

Anything, it seems,to stay in power and raise herself up.


Go liberals! (Even though they're a lying pack of unmentionable thieves, they're still light years better than the rest.)

And I thought US politics were bad...

And are Canadian conservatives really that bad?

Crazed Rabbit

[Kurando]

We had our provincial election out here in B.C. today, eh. There wasn't much to choose from in my riding so I voted green. There is a good chance that the green party may get a seat or two out here this time around. Their leader, Adrain Carr, is a real tiger + she totally punked our current Liberal Premiere during the televised debate.

You'll get a kick out of this Beirut. I almost crapped an egg the size of a volleyball when I saw it... http://www.annexationbc.com/

[Don Corleone]

Dude, one thing you need to understand... as American Conservatives, we're the bottom of the barrel. ~:) I think she's a conservative with a small c, less government interference, period, which I think I actually would do quite well in. But they don't take hard lines on social issues.

Just out of curiousity, sure, this will help her feather her nest with goodies from her new friends. But is her constituency going to take this well? Was she a conservative in a socialist neighborhood (the rare personality candidate) and the change will be welcomed? Or is North Toronto looking for a "small 'c' conservative" and going to be upset?

[LittleGrizzly]

but could somebody give me the 5th grade explanation of how a parlimentary system works? You 'call for elections', they're not regularly scheduled?

well ill give you the answer in british terms im thinking canada works on something similar ?

once elected the goverment has 5 years before they have to call another election but they can call one anytime before that if they want.

[Don Corleone]

Okay, but if you're able to put together a ruling coalition, how can a party not in that coalition, such as the conservatives in Canada, force a vote? I thought I understood all this quite well, and a party leaving a majority forming coalition in a minority could cause all of this. But how could a minority party, or a minority coalition, force a new vote before the 5 years are up?

[Crazed Rabbit]

You'll get a kick out of this Beirut. I almost crapped an egg the size of a volleyball when I saw it... http://www.annexationbc.com/

That'll never happen! California, for one, would never except it because of the competition with their lucrative marijuania market.

Crazed Rabbit

[LittleGrizzly]

Okay, but if you're able to put together a ruling coalition, how can a party not in that coalition, such as the conservatives in Canada, force a vote?

well from the article it appears the canadian pm is using his budget as a vote of confidence, to pass or fail the budget has to go through parliment, canada has 308 mps so if 155 people vote against it the budget fails and the pm agreed to call new elections.

With Stronach's move, the Liberals and their allies now appear to have 153 seats in the 308-member House of Commons who will vote in favor of the budget. The Conservatives, aligned with the French-separatist Bloc Quebecois, appear to have 152. There is one vacancy and two remaining independents, whose votes now are crucial.

[Byzantine Prince]

Just out of curiousity, sure, this will help her feather her nest with goodies from her new friends. But is her constituency going to take this well? Was she a conservative in a socialist neighborhood (the rare personality candidate) and the change will be welcomed? Or is North Toronto looking for a "small 'c' conservative" and going to be upset?
I doubt she even cares. She was the second in turn to become the leader of the conservative party when the elections for this new party of ours hapened. ~:eek: So she's definetly consevative. Then again so am I, I just can't stand the Conservative that are now in power who want to ally themselves with the Bloq and want to destroy our health care system and want to have closer ties to the US (disgusting! :sick:)


Also she's incredibly rich. I believe she's number 2 in Forbes most powerful business women in the world ~:eek: so I doubt she cares wether she wins or not.

[Don Corleone]

BP, I appreciate the insights, I really do, but either I didn't phrase my question right, or you missed the point....

Is she representing the will of her constituents or is she doing this for personal reasons (you already excluded financial gain, fine). ?

[Byzantine Prince]

The CBC showed some people were really dissapointed from her home but also some liked what she did and some would for her anyways. So it's anyone's guess wether she made an impact there or not. It's only a small part of the liberal and they win there here and again so that wouldn't make that much of a difference.

What does make a difference is her not being a conservative.

[sharrukin]

Okay, but if you're able to put together a ruling coalition, how can a party not in that coalition, such as the conservatives in Canada, force a vote? I thought I understood all this quite well, and a party leaving a majority forming coalition in a minority could cause all of this. But how could a minority party, or a minority coalition, force a new vote before the 5 years are up?


It's called a 'vote of non confidence' and in Canada this takes place in Parliament. It is like your Congress except the President attends as a Congressman and has to answer questions when addressed (sometimes). If a bill is voted down by Parliament that the party in power designated as a 'confidence' motion then they are obliged to call an election. They sometimes do this to get their own party members to vote for a bill they might otherwise vote against. The opposition party can also call a 'vote of non confidence' but if the party in power has the votes it goes nowhere. Sometimes though they do have the votes as some ruling party members might not be too happy with their own party.
If enough Republicans were upset with Bush they could bring the government to another election if things were done this way in the states.

[Don Corleone]

Thank you BP. Sounds like she's a female version of Jumpin Jim Jeffords.

Sharrukin, thanks. Fascinating!!! You guys play Russian roulette when you send bills that are questionable!

[sharrukin]

Thank you BP. Sounds like she's a female version of Jumpin Jim Jeffords.

Sharrukin, thanks. Fascinating!!! You guys play Russian roulette when you send bills that are questionable!

Not all bills. They get bills voted down all the time. It has to be "designated" as a 'non-confidence' motion. I think IIRC that ALL budgetary bills are 'confidence' motions but I am not sure if that was just tradition or law?

[Don Corleone]

Yeah, no I get that. But... if I'm a wily PM, I have to decide just how strongly the guys in my coalition oppose a bill I'm trying to shove down their throats (like reducing their salary). I can play double or nothing and tell them 'vote for it, or you're kicking our party out of the PM and starting a new election', or I can play it safe and say 'muh, okay, vote or don't'.

I could see myself sending everything over as a vote of confidence, just to remind them who alpha dog is.

[sharrukin]

Yeah, no I get that. But... if I'm a wily PM, I have to decide just how strongly the guys in my coalition oppose a bill I'm trying to shove down their throats (like reducing their salary). I can play double or nothing and tell them 'vote for it, or you're kicking our party out of the PM and starting a new election', or I can play it safe and say 'muh, okay, vote or don't'.

I could see myself sending everything over as a vote of confidence, just to remind them who alpha dog is.

You might not like the answer you get as to who is alpha dog. After all they are elected by the people and you could be quickly replaced which has happened on occasion

[lars573]

Thank you BP. Sounds like she's a female version of Jumpin Jim Jeffords.

Sharrukin, thanks. Fascinating!!! You guys play Russian roulette when you send bills that are questionable!

Doesn't happen all the time. Budgets are always non-confidence votes. I'm fairly certain that it's law. As the provincal governments have non-confidence votes for budgets. Here in Nova Scotia the rulling Progressive conservatives have a minority. The budget is also coming up and they PC's are trying to get support from either the Liberals or the NDP to pass the budget. But when it does happen it has been called a caucus rebellion, it's what forced Margert Thatcher out of office in the late 80's.


Not for nothing, but could somebody give me the 5th grade explanation of how a parlimentary system works? You 'call for elections', they're not regularly scheduled?

Well a rulling governments mandate is 4 years here in Canada. Essentially after 4 years the PM has to call an election. He/she has to go to the Governor General and ask that him/her officially dissolve parliment for an election. To use US terms in a parlimentary system the legislative and executive branches can be one and the same. If the US had an parlimentary government the president could have about as much power as Queen Elizabeth of Great Britain, or as much as the president of France. But for the sake of argument lets say that the US had a UK style parlimentary system. If that was true then the house majority leader would have the real executive power of the state. Which ever party had the most seats in congress would be asked by the president to from a government for the next 4 years. The leader of said party will become the house majority leader and pick the persons to fill the secretariates (defense state treasury what ever) they could only be drawn from duelly elected congressmen. Also I have no idea how congress seats are mapped out but in the parlimentary system they would drawn by units of population about 50000 or so. Senate seats would be handed out by patronage appointments. You get tapped by the house leader to sit in a senate seat till you die or turn 75 which ever comes first. Also once your in that senate seat in near immposible to get rid of you. Every state sends a certain number of senators, how many is based in the number of years in the union. So a tiny state like Delaware will have more senators than a huge populus state like California.

[Don Corleone]

Thank you Lars. That was a huge help.

[Beirut]

Lars573 pretty much nailed it.

One thing he did not go into depth about, is the very low esteem in which we hold our Senators. Hell, Lyin' Brian Mulroney, our former Prime Minister (and most hated man in our history) gave a Senate apointment to a doorman at a hotel he used to get drunk at. Fat paycheck, fat pension, and legislative powers. Our Senators are tax fattened toilet cleaners who show up for work whenever they want to. Some show up to vote only twice a year, once for the yearly roll call, and once to vote themselves a pay raise. Seriously!

But oh, how Ottawa is hopping now. Can't wait to see what is next!

At least this ain't boring. ~D

[PanzerJaeger]

Great!

Interesting news in the backroom that has nothing to do with the US!

Thank you Beirut, you surely understand other countries can be interesting too.. :bow:

[Byzantine Prince]

Bottom line is she's to damn hot to be in politics! ~D
Although I've seen a lot of other good looking conservative MPs out there.

[UglyandHasty]

I just hope she will lose so badly in the next election, that she will look like the fool that she is. What a backstabber ! She is an opportunistic ... ' i'll restrain my words, i'm too polite to call a lady bad names, but anyway. How can the people trust such a women after that ? But i wouldnt be surprise she be elected, we elected Liberals with no ethics and no morals, she will fit right in !!!

That's just prove how corrupt the Liberals are. The have thrown 5 billions in the maritimes provinces and NewFounland in the last month, trying to buy the next election. They are doing the same in Quebec. Spending billions of OUR money to buy themself seat in the parlement. They have no shame at all ! And that while they under investigation(dont have to dig very far) for corruption!!! Their corruption bill(under Gomery investigation) is now to one billion dollar ! Gah !

[Crazed Rabbit]

Ah, politicians. Can't live with them, and they tell us we could't live without them. Though, we would probably be a lot better off...

It will be interesting to see if she gets re-elected...

Crazed Rabbit

[lars573]

Lars573 pretty much nailed it.

One thing he did not go into depth about, is the very low esteem in which we hold our Senators. Hell, Lyin' Brian Mulroney, our former Prime Minister (and most hated man in our history) gave a Senate apointment to a doorman at a hotel he used to get drunk at. Fat paycheck, fat pension, and legislative powers. Our Senators are tax fattened toilet cleaners who show up for work whenever they want to. Some show up to vote only twice a year, once for the yearly roll call, and once to vote themselves a pay raise. Seriously!

But oh, how Ottawa is hopping now. Can't wait to see what is next!

At least this ain't boring. ~D

Well it was late and I knew a lumberjack like you could do a better job. :bow: Also if Paul Martin came to your door and said he wanted you to be a liberal senator for Quebec would you say no? I know I wouldn't say no. Why well you said so yourself, fat paycheck, fat pension, legislative powers. Plus best of all no elections. ~;) Didn't know that story about lyin' Brian. But I was only 10 when he left office. Or I should say he ran from the angry mod with torches out side the house of commons. :hide:

[Duke Malcolm]

HM and Phil the Greek turned up in Canada, and apparantely, their whole trip will have to be changed if some vote, or something happens in the Canadian, umm... Meeting hall. I'm sorry, I don't take too much interest in colonial affairs...

But I will now, so I shall read up on what type of government we gave Canada...

[lars573]

HM and Phil the Greek turned up in Canada, and apparantely, their whole trip will have to be changed if some vote, or something happens in the Canadian, umm... Meeting hall. I'm sorry, I don't take too much interest in colonial affairs...

But I will now, so I shall read up on what type of government we gave Canada...

It's some arts celebrations in Saskatchewan (f**k that's hard to spell). It's called house of commons same as yours, don't be an ass. I forgot about that if she's in the country she has to be on the throne in the house for an important vote like that. But unlike yours parliment isn't split into house of commons and house of lords. It's the commons and the senate. Essencially we cut and pasted your constitution/government for our own. Big difference is that we have a fedeal system. Where there are legislative assemblies and leftennat governors in each province. Also the monarch is represented by the governor general most times.

[UglyandHasty]

But I will now, so I shall read up on what type of government we gave Canada...

~:rolleyes:

[Beirut]

It's some arts celebrations in Saskatchewan (f**k that's hard to spell).


You ever hear this one?

George and Martha are visiting Canada and driving across the country. They get lost and stop to ask directions from a man standing on the sidewalk..

"Excuse me, we're a bit lost, could you tell me where we are please?"

"Saskatoon, Saskatchewan."

George sneers at the man, rolls up his window and drives off in a huff. "Damnit Martha, they don't even speak English here!"

[GoreBag]

HM and Phil the Greek turned up in Canada, and apparantely, their whole trip will have to be changed if some vote, or something happens in the Canadian, umm... Meeting hall. I'm sorry, I don't take too much interest in colonial affairs...

But I will now, so I shall read up on what type of government we gave Canada...

That's not arrogant at all.

The funny thing with all of this 'Liberal thief' bunk is that the programs they're using to misuse funds were actually started by the Conservatice government under Mulroney. We're just as selective with our political misinformation broadcasts as the Americans are. Well, sometimes..

That being said, I see no merit in having Martin run the country. I liked Chrétien, personally. Why did everybody hate the guy?


Is she representing the will of her constituents...[?]

I've actually never heard of that happening on a Federal level. Despite the system being based around constituencies, people rarely consider their constituency as the centre of attention when they vote on a Federal or Provincial level.

[Duke Malcolm]

I didn't mean to offend by saying Meeting hall. It's just because I didn't know what it was called, except that every one is some meeting thing, like a parliament is a group of owls, or congress is a group of baboons. Canada is an intriguing dominion, especially since the front bitty (where the Tattoo is held) of Edinburgh Castle belongs to Nova Scotia, and a lot of the people of Canada are of Scottish descent...

[lars573]

Well for the first 50 years of our nation we had 2 kinds of PM's.
1.Scotsmen
2.Frenchmen



I didn't mean to offend by saying Meeting hall. It's just because I didn't know what it was called, except that every one is some meeting thing, like a parliament is a group of owls, or congress is a group of baboons. Canada is an intriguing dominion, especially since the front bitty (where the Tattoo is held) of Edinburgh Castle belongs to Nova Scotia, and a lot of the people of Canada are of Scottish descent...

Which is where I'm from and still live. Not of scots decent myself but a fair number of people I've met in 24 years are. One of my community colledge professors was named MacPherson, a wild out there highlander if ever you met one. He actually gave me a good way to differentiate the 2 types of scotsmen you'll met
1.Scottish prebiterians "We dunnae have the devil brew here lad"
2.Scottish catholics *hick* "Whens the last time ye were sober mate"

[Don Corleone]

Time out for a second: Are there any Catholics left in Scotland itself? I thought they were all Presbytarian (Church of Scotland) or Anglican. I thought Catholics got thrown over to Ireland.

[Duke Malcolm]

Oh, no, it's been quite a while since abstinence was practiced by the presbyterians here. Everyone (except the muslims, from what I believe) is more of the second one

[lars573]

It was just a joke you know. ~;) There are some catholic Scots left, not as many as in times past but a fair number.

[Hurin_Rules]

If there weren't any Scots Catholics left, no one would be attending Glasgow Celtic games.

As for Stronach, I was stunned. Happy, but stunned. She ran for the leadership of the conservative party. Its like if John McCain, rather than Jim Jeffords, had been the one crossing the aisle to give the senate to the Democrats.

Can anyone tell me what's happening in BC? I haven't been following the election very closely, but didn't BC used to have a Conservative party? When did they collapse? I mean, they're barely beating out the Marijuana party in today's election.

I can't help but laugh when I wonder how Gawain, Redleg, Devastatin Dave et al. would vote in BC: you're choices are Liberals, the NDP (even more left wing than the liberals), or the Greens. hahah... oh, that would be hilarious.

[lars573]

Something like this probably, they go the polling station get a ballot go to the cardboard "booth". And "Hey I don't see a PC box, wait there ISN"T ONE NOOOOOOOOOOO *head explodes with the fury of a 1000 suns* JK ~;)

As for Stronach crossing the house the actual moment surprised me but when you sit and think about it it's not that surprising. She is a so called red conservative or center right.

EDIT: NDP is code for socialists.

[Duke Malcolm]

It was just a joke you know. ~;) There are some catholic Scots left, not as many as in times past but a fair number.

Really? I thought that they were words of wisdom. They would have been true a decade ago...

[GoreBag]

Well for the first 50 years of our nation we had 2 kinds of PM's.
1.Scotsmen
2.Frenchmen

Which is where I'm from and still live. Not of scots decent myself but a fair number of people I've met in 24 years are. One of my community colledge professors was named MacPherson, a wild out there highlander if ever you met one. He actually gave me a good way to differentiate the 2 types of scotsmen you'll met
1.Scottish prebiterians "We dunnae have the devil brew here lad"
2.Scottish catholics *hick* "Whens the last time ye were somber mate"

Except for good ol' John A. and D'arcy McGee.

Basically all of the east coast is Scottish by decent, or was at one time. Other popular ancestries are Irish, and in the case of New Brunswick (AKA Neu Braunschweig) German.


If there weren't any Scots Catholics left, no one would be attending Glasgow Celtic games.

Can you explain that statement, please? My family is Anglican, though I am not, and I attend the Highland Games every year.

[Duke Malcolm]

No, he means the football team, Glasgow Celtic, not the celtic/highland games.

[Hurin_Rules]

Can you explain that statement, please? My family is Anglican, though I am not, and I attend the Highland Games every year.

The fans of Glasgow Celtic are predominantly Catholic, and the fans of Glasgow Rangers are predominantly Protestant. This is one of the reasons their rivalry is one of the most intense in professional sports. My cousin (a Rangers fan) once gave me a pair of white tube socks with a green stripe; he said there was no way he could ever wear them because they were green and white!

[lars573]

Except for good ol' John A. and D'arcy McGee.

Basically all of the east coast is Scottish by decent, or was at one time. Other popular ancestries are Irish, and in the case of New Brunswick (AKA Neu Braunschweig) German.

Actually New Brunswick is just a name most German settlement in here in the east is in Lunenburg. I think that when Nova Scotia was split into New Brunswick PEI and rump NS the name New Brunswick was chosen because it resembled the Hanovrian Braunswheig territories. The people in NB that aren't English are either Acadien or Irish. My mom is from NB so I spent a good amount of time there growing up. Also gool ol'John A was born in Glasgow IIRC. There is also a quirk of our history that people with Irish names are actually French. Happened as when some Irish came to Canada they would die on the way and their children were adopted by French Canadian familes but they were alowed to keep their Irish names. So lyin' Brian Mulrony was French with an irish name.

[GoreBag]

Actually New Brunswick is just a name most German settlement in here in the east is in Lunenburg. I think that when Nova Scotia was split into New Brunswick PEI and rump NS the name New Brunswick was chosen because it resembled the Hanovrian Braunswheig territories. The people in NB that aren't English are either Acadien or Irish. My mom is from NB so I spent a good amount of time there growing up. Also gool ol'John A was born in Glasgow IIRC. There is also a quirk of our history that people with Irish names are actually French. Happened as when some Irish came to Canada they would die on the way and their children were adopted by French Canadian familes but they were alowed to keep their Irish names. So lyin' Brian Mulrony was French with an irish name.

Who would know if the hills looked like Hanoverian territory? Germans, I suppose. ~;p

Now, being from NB myself, with both of my parents being from NB, and so on, and considering how the only the names of my ancestors are all Scottish (mostly), German and Dutch, I would say that English, Acadians or Irish are the exclusive names. There is a great deal of Scottish influence on the area, as well as German.

Ah, yeah, those Heritage Moments are great, aren't they?

[lars573]

But half of them have craptacular acting. The ones playing the Irish kids didn't even try to sound Irish.


Who would know if the hills looked like Hanoverian territory? Germans, I suppose.

And where were a lot of the British royal family from when they created NB, Germany. Seriously I think the that NB got it's name from NB forrests=black forrest.

[Hurin_Rules]

Looks like the government just survived the vote. More in a minute.

[Redleg]

I can't help but laugh when I wonder how Gawain, Redleg, Devastatin Dave et al. would vote in BC: you're choices are Liberals, the NDP (even more left wing than the liberals), or the Greens. hahah... oh, that would be hilarious.

Wouldn't be hard for me at all - would have to pick the candidate that came closest to my views and voted for them.

Kind of what I had to do in this last election in the states - pick the individual that came closest.

Had to do it at several level of government elections.

BTW I have been know to vote for Democrates, Independents, and others if their views are close to mine verus the other oppenents.

[Goofball]

Looks like the government just survived the vote. More in a minute.

By one vote. If Stronach hadn't have left, they would have lost.

[Hurin_Rules]

Motion carried. The Liberals government has survived.

[Xiahou]

By one vote. If Stronach hadn't have left, they would have lost.Is that pun intended? ~;)

I don't claim to be intimately familiar with the situation, but it seems to me that she was essentially bought off for a position.

[Goofball]

Is that pun intended? ~;)

I don't claim to be intimately familiar with the situation, but it seems to me that she was essentially bought off for a position.

It's funny you know, because Stronach's views mirror my own quite closely. I am a card-carrying member of the Conservative Party of Canada, and when Stronach was running for leadership of the party, I campaigned actively for her. The Conservative party was at that time a fledgeling party, and the choice of its first leader was very important. I wanted Stronach because like me, she is a "small c" conservative. Socially liberal, but fiscally responsible.

Unfortunately, Harper won the leadership, and took the party in a more "American-style" conservative direction. That, I believe, was untimately bad for the party. It turned off a lot of moderates who might have otherwise supported the party.

I don't hold Stronach's move against her. I agree with her that Harper is taking the party in a direction that the majority of Canadian conservatives are not comfortable with.

As to charges that she is "feathering her nest," they don't really hold water. She is in her own right most likely the wealthiest Member of Parliament that Canada has, with the possible exception of the PM.

At any rate, because of Harper's leadership, I will most likely vote for the Liberal Party in the next election. They are truly the most centrist of any of the options.

[lars573]

You know I think the reason the Alliance ate the PC party was to get it's credibility in the national scene. Which they could have done if they had elected someone like Stronach as party leader. But they elected Steven "doorknob" Harper, and it seemed (at least to me) that this was the Reform party with another new name and the PC caucus. That is why they can never get votes in Ontario.

[Hurin_Rules]

That is why they can never get votes in Ontario.

Exactly.

I used to live in Ontario, and still frequently spend the summers there, and I'll tell you there is a big difference between conservatives in the East and out here on the praries. The central problems is that the western conservatives are way more socially conservative than the eastern ones. If the western conservatives got into power, they'd probably try to limit abortion rights, cut down on socialized medicine, spend more on defense, etc. Eastern conservatives are more liberal socially-- they care more about balancing a budget, cutting taxes, promoting economic growth, etc. The marriage of these two groups is bound to be a stormy one.

[Beirut]

As long as anyone in the Conservative party speaks kindly of Lyin' Brian Mulroney, they will be forever damned. To hear Harper say that he calls him regularly for advice is insane. Mulroney was the biggest criminal SOB PM the country ever had. He's dirty from head to toe and the most hated man in the country. What is Harper thinking when he says things like that?

And that's why I vote Liberal every single time.

[UglyandHasty]

C'mon Beirut, you have admit it yourself a fair number of time on this forum, you are paint in red from toes to ears. Whatever bs the Liberals may do, you will always defend and vote for them.

Who give a heck about Mulroney ? He is gone and gone. And never been found guilty of anything by the way. We'll see if its the same results with The Liberals Mafia at the end of the Gommery commission.

I agree though that the Conservative have an image problem with Harper at the helm. Too bad because many Quebecois would be ready for an alternative to the Bloc. What many Canadian dont seem to understand with the Bloc popularity, its that a fair % of the vote they got is not from people who want the independence of Quebec. It's a protest vote against the Liberals, and without better option, the Bloc will keep cruising. Dont think a vote for the Bloc is a vote for the independence, many like me just see them as clowns. But, another Liberal government may just give the right push the Party Quebecois(Provincial level) need to gather enough support for the independence. Underestimate insastisfaction of the Quebecois may just lead us to a big ugly surprise...

[Goofball]

As long as anyone in the Conservative party speaks kindly of Lyin' Brian Mulroney, they will be forever damned. To hear Harper say that he calls him regularly for advice is insane. Mulroney was the biggest criminal SOB PM the country ever had. He's dirty from head to toe and the most hated man in the country. What is Harper thinking when he says things like that?

And that's why I vote Liberal every single time.

*picks self up off of floor after laughing fit*

Oh, yeah. The Liberals are corruption-free paragons of virtue.

Have you read a Canadian newspaper or watched any of our news lately? There's this little thing called the Gomery Inquiry going on right now investigating the depths of Liberal corruption and theft of taxpayer dollars. You might want to read up on it, it's quite interesting.

:book:

[Hurin_Rules]

I agree though that the Conservative have an image problem with Harper at the helm. Too bad because many Quebecois would be ready for an alternative to the Bloc. What many Canadian dont seem to understand with the Bloc popularity, its that a fair % of the vote they got is not from people who want the independence of Quebec. It's a protest vote against the Liberals, and without better option, the Bloc will keep cruising. Dont think a vote for the Bloc is a vote for the independence, many like me just see them as clowns. But, another Liberal government may just give the right push the Party Quebecois(Provincial level) need to gather enough support for the independence. Underestimate insastisfaction of the Quebecois may just lead us to a big ugly surprise...

Very interesting. I had no idea about this. Thanks for the info.

[Byzantine Prince]

Ok about the so called corruption, 100 million dollars is peanuts compared to what countries surplus is. Not that that makes it ok, but it doesn't make that much of a difference.

As far as the conservatives go I don't think they shouldn't running their mouths as much as they do because they have commited even worse crap then this government. You'll say it's in the past, well so is the Jean Cretien gov/ment that was involved in the whole sponcorship crap.

[Goofball]

As far as the conservatives go I don't think they shouldn't running their mouths as much as they do because they have commited even worse crap then this government.

Really? Since the Conservative Party of Canada has only been in existence since December 2003 and has never held power, I wonder what you are basing that statement on.

The Liberals have not only been stealing Canadian taxpayers' money, which is bad enough in itself, but have been using that money to get themselves reelected. That is even worse.

At any rate, I'm becoming more and more disenfranchised every day. Here are my choices of who to vote for in the next election:

NDP: I hate their fiscal policies, but I like their social policies and believe Jack Layton is a pretty honest guy.

Conservative: I hate their social policies and I think that Stephen Harper is a moron, but I like their fiscal policies.

Liberal: I like both their fiscal and social policies, but the putrid depths of their corruption are very stinky to me, and I while I believe Paul Martin was unaware of most of the corruption, the fact that he was finance minister at the time makes me believe he is an inept bumbler.

Great choices...

[Byzantine Prince]

Since the Conservative Party of Canada has only been in existence since December 2003 and has never held power, I wonder what you are basing that statement on.
You know very well what I'm basing that on.


The Liberals have not only been stealing Canadian taxpayers' money, which is bad enough in itself, but have been using that money to get themselves reelected. That is even worse.
Give the Canadian people some credit. People don't make decisions based on colorful signs.

[UglyandHasty]

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050421/nease.jpg

[Goofball]

You know very well what I'm basing that on.

No, I don't. That's why I asked.


Give the Canadian people some credit. People don't make decisions based on colorful signs.

So is it your position that the millions (billions?) of dollars political parties spend on polling, advertizing, focus groups, etc. have no impact on who gets elected?

If so, I think you need to serve yourself up a nice triple scoop of reality flavored ice cream with some wake up and smell the coffee flavored sprinkles...

[Byzantine Prince]

So this is a cartoon war is it?
http://cartoons.diberardo.com/eds04/summer_political_cartoons/large_cartoons/hiddenagenda.jpg

[UglyandHasty]

You need to sit in front of the TV, and watch that commision seriously. Its a soap opera that last for weeks now, and that's why i sound so pissed off. It was an institutionalized fraud within the Liberal party. Each day its a new horror story.

[UglyandHasty]

Dont want to brag, but you wouldnt win a cartoon war. And its not a war, because i dont give a *bip* bout Harper or others clowns.

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/050518/graston.gif


On this nice view, have a nice weekend gentlemans, i'm out of town till monday for Granma birthday, her 90th ~:cheers:

[Xiahou]

As to charges that she is "feathering her nest," they don't really hold water. She is in her own right most likely the wealthiest Member of Parliament that Canada has, with the possible exception of the PM.
Well I was thinking that it was more for political power than money. Pretty much every US President in recent history has been a millionaire and taken a pay-cut to get the job.

So she doesnt get a party power position she wanted and jumps ship to the one's that will give her a higher position, and likely promises of even better ones.

[lars573]

No, I don't. That's why I asked.

Well You see the Conservative party is sadded with 2 large archor chains round their necks.
1.The legacy of lyin' Brian Mulrony's PC government of the 80's, and Joe Clark
2.The legacy of Preston "pest from the west" Mannings Reform party, and Stockwell "Doris" Day's Canadian Alliance party

I think that it's the Albertan conservative yankophiles who need a nice triple scoop of reality flavored ice cream with some wake up and smell the coffee flavored sprinkles, to ripoff Goofball. A lot of people see them as a threat to our way of life in many ways. Granted this is a bit extreme and fanciful but some people feel that way.

[PanzerJaeger]

Vote Conservative Goof.

I wouldnt be too concerned about their social agenda. Down here we control the whole government and cant even ban gay marriage or abortion.. a sad state of affairs indeed.

But it should be an example to you as to how hard it is to change such social things... and if they do mess with them theres always another election right?

[Goofball]

Vote Conservative Goof.

I wouldnt be too concerned about their social agenda. Down here we control the whole government and cant even ban gay marriage or abortion.. a sad state of affairs indeed.

But it should be an example to you as to how hard it is to change such social things... and if they do mess with them theres always another election right?

I'm inclined to agree with you. But I've changed my mind so many times in the past few weeks that I'm getting dizzy now. I probably won't end up making up my mind until I'm actually in the voting booth. And there's no telling when that might be now.

[Beirut]

*picks self up off of floor after laughing fit*

Oh, yeah. The Liberals are corruption-free paragons of virtue.

Have you read a Canadian newspaper or watched any of our news lately? There's this little thing called the Gomery Inquiry going on right now investigating the depths of Liberal corruption and theft of taxpayer dollars. You might want to read up on it, it's quite interesting.

:book:

Oh for goodness sake, don't be so boobish my West Coast friend. I know perfectly well the Liberals are horrid, dirty-lying thieves. They are welchers and degenerates and drunks and perverts.

But they are still light years better than the Conservatives. Remember Brian Mulroney? Do you remember how he took the Conservatives from a historic majority of 211 seats in Parliament and by the time he left had that reduced to two seats? Perhaps you might want to read up on that. You think there was a reason why the Conservatives lost 209 of 211 seats? You think maybe Canadians realized what an unprecedented bunch of bastards they were?

Well Stephen Harper is taking advice from Mulroney! The Liberals could be selling nuclear weapons to North korea and be involved in slavery and they still would not come close to the sleaze and theft committed by the Conservatives under Mulroney. And lots and lots and lots of those same people are still serving in the backround behind harper. Including the devil himself - Mulroney.

The Liberals may be dirtbags, scumabags and thieves, but they're still better than the Conservative Party by a mile.

[Goofball]

The Liberals may be dirtbags, scumabags and thieves, but they're still better than the Conservative Party by a mile.

I disagree. But don't get me wrong, I am certainly not saying the Conservatives are shining beacons of leadership. I just found it quite funny that you were railing at them about corruption while supporting the Liberals. It's like arguing over who is a more upstanding citizen, the guy selling crack in the elementary school playground, or the child pornographer...

:dizzy2:

[GoreBag]

I disagree. But don't get me wrong, I am certainly not saying the Conservatives are shining beacons of leadership. I just found it quite funny that you were railing at them about corruption while supporting the Liberals. It's like arguing over who is a more upstanding citizen, the guy selling crack in the elementary school playground, or the child pornographer...

:dizzy2:

That depends. Is the child pornographer selling the photography or simply keeping it? If it's the former, then the pornographer is more upstanding on the grounds that he's contributing to the economy in his own little way.

[Beirut]

They're all scum. Liberal, Conservative, all shmucks, shmoos, and shlemiels.

The way I see it, the Liberal scum support more of the basic Canadian values than the Conservative scum.

[GoreBag]

I think we need a Rhinoceros party again.

[Navaros]

Belinda has always been a hypocrite. a liberal masquerading as a Conservative. this is not a huge defection and should come as no suprise to anyone smart enough to be able to see hypocrisy

this is not even news. the only thing is that the radical leftwing extremist Canadian media sensationalizes a hypocrite coming full-circle with her hypocrisy for the sake of promoting that extremist agenda on the airwaves

[Hurin_Rules]

Belinda has always been a hypocrite. a liberal masquerading as a Conservative. this is not a huge defection and should come as no suprise to anyone smart enough to be able to see hypocrisy

this is not even news. the only thing is that the radical leftwing extremist Canadian media sensationalizes a hypocrite coming full-circle with her hypocrisy for the sake of promoting that extremist agenda on the airwaves

Can I nominate this as post of the year? Navaros has outdone himself here. Any comment on my part would be superfluous.

[Beirut]

Belinda has always been a hypocrite. a liberal masquerading as a Conservative. this is not a huge defection and should come as no suprise to anyone smart enough to be able to see hypocrisy

this is not even news. the only thing is that the radical leftwing extremist Canadian media sensationalizes a hypocrite coming full-circle with her hypocrisy for the sake of promoting that extremist agenda on the airwaves

Wow. That's quite some post.

So you're saying you were smart enough to know she was going to defect? When did you know and why didn't you tell us?

Could you provide an example of our "radical leftwing extremist Canadian media" please?

And what, pray tell, is the political "extremist agenda" you speak of?

[UglyandHasty]

The way I see it, the Liberal scum support more of the basic Canadian values than the Conservative scum.

the irony !

[lars573]

Well in a demmocratic system you vote fot the least bad choice rather than the best choice.

[Hurin_Rules]

I've always felt that Canadians don't so much vote governments in as vote them out: Brian Mulroney being the prime example.

[UglyandHasty]

So they should vote the Liberals out. But that wont happen.

The irony was about the basic Canadians values. It is so sad to read crap like that, i have though a while before answering here. I cant believe its basic Canadian value to allow fraud and corruption in Quebec and to look elsewhere. I still hope the Canadians will wake up at the last moment, even if dont have much hope. Because if they dont, that will say a lot...

Just imagine the kind of reaction if that had happen in Ontario or Alberta...

[Beirut]

So they should vote the Liberals out. But that wont happen.

The irony was about the basic Canadians values. It is so sad to read crap like that, i have though a while before answering here. I cant believe its basic Canadian value to allow fraud and corruption in Quebec and to look elsewhere. I still hope the Canadians will wake up at the last moment, even if dont have much hope. Because if they dont, that will say a lot...

Just imagine the kind of reaction if that had happen in Ontario or Alberta...

Uh, actually, the values I referred to were things like socialized medicine and women's rights. Not fraud and corruption. those are not Canadian values, they are political values.

Of course, there are always the Quebec values of complaining, whining and snivelling. But I blame the separatists for holding those values so near and dear. They are the most embarrassing species I have yet to come across.

[UglyandHasty]

There's whinners everywhere. The percertange of whinners is not higher here than in Ontario or Alberta. But maybe you call whinning things you dont like to hear. You can blame separatist for all the vice in the world, but when its time stand for justice against your own party its another story. You should be embarass by the fraud in the Liberal Party, not blaming separatist.

[Beirut]

There's whinners everywhere. The percertange of whinners is not higher here than in Ontario or Alberta. But maybe you call whinning things you dont like to hear. You can blame separatist for all the vice in the world, but when its time stand for justice against your own party its another story. You should be embarass by the fraud in the Liberal Party, not blaming separatist.

I'm not embarrassed by the fraud, I didn't do it. I'm angry. They're the ones who did it. I'm not defending the Liberal party, I know what an incredible bunch of bastards they are. I'm just saying they're less a bunch of bastards than the Conservatives.

I'm certainly not blaming the separatists for the fraud, I'm blaming them for being the most snivelling, whinning bunch of losers ever to inhabit the Earth.

[Adrian II]

I'm not embarrassed by the fraud, I didn't do it. I'm angry. They're the ones who did it. I'm not defending the Liberal party, I know what an incredible bunch of bastards they are. I'm just saying they're less a bunch of bastards than the Conservatives.

I'm certainly not blaming the separatists for the fraud, I'm blaming them for being the most snivelling, whinning bunch of losers ever to inhabit the Earth.

:singer:
With us in our studio tonight is Lumberjack Beirut, social commentator and honorary President of Dogwatch. Mr Beirut, who would you say are the incrediblest of incredible bastards, the Quebec separatists or the Liberal Party?

*ducks*

[Beirut]

:singer:
With us in our studio tonight is Lumberjack Beirut, social commentator and honorary President of Dogwatch. Mr Beirut, who would you say are the incrediblest of incredible bastards, the Quebec separatists or the Liberal Party?

*ducks*

:singer: "Good evening Mr. AdrianII, thanks for inviting me to your show. I guess I should clarify my previous statement and say that both the Liberal party and the separatists are incredible bastards. The difference being that the separatists are treasonous, traitorous scumbags as well.

And as the President of Dogwatch, I would like to thank you for the ducks. they were delicious."

[Adrian II]

:singer: "Good evening Mr. AdrianII, thanks for inviting me to your show. I guess I should clarify my previous statement and say that both the Liberal party and the separatists are incredible bastards. The difference being that the separatists are treasonous, traitorous scumbags as well.

And as the President of Dogwatch, I would like to thank you for the ducks. they were delicious.":singer:
Do you mean to say, Mr Beirut, that the bastards are incredibly Liberal or... My, but that is a charming young lady you have brought with you. Why don't you come and sit next to my great big microphone, Miss Beirut... Oh look, now your Doberman is smiling at me... and a fine set of teeth it is...
:sweatdrop:

[Beirut]

"Woof-woof-woof-woof-woof!"

[UglyandHasty]

Anyway you can bash separatist to avoid the talk about the Liberals fraud, in the end it will hurt the Canada a lot more than it will have help. The Sponsorship Program was made to fight against separatism, but the Liberals have abuse the trust of the Canadian People by breaking the laws(federal & provincial) they were suppose to protect. Like it or not, french speaking Quebecois are also Canadians, and all that sponsorship fraudulous crap is write down in red ~D on the Liberals bill.

And if you want to bash to Conservatives, you would be way more credible by attacking them on their Alliance heritage, instead of the Mulroney heritage. In case you dont know, there's no one left of the old conservative government in that new merged Conservative Party. Mulroney have no influence left. He is done and gone.

Marijuana Party is to way to go ! Or Marxist-Leninist ? We had a Marxist candidate last Federal election...

[Beirut]

Anyway you can bash separatist to avoid the talk about the Liberals fraud...

Where did I avoid discussing the fraud the Liberals have perpetrated? I've called them thieves, liars, bastards, and scumbags. What else do you want me to do, attack them with a 2X4?

Hey wait, that sounds pretty good...


Like it or not, french speaking Quebecois are also Canadians, and all that sponsorship fraudulous crap is write down in red ~D on the Liberals bill.

Being a Quebecer all my life and mostly educated in French and working in French, I know very well that les Quebecois sont les plus Canadiens de tous les Canadiens.


And if you want to bash to Conservatives, you would be way more credible by attacking them on their Alliance heritage, instead of the Mulroney heritage. In case you dont know, there's no one left of the old conservative government in that new merged Conservative Party. Mulroney have no influence left. He is done and gone.

Then why does Stephen Harper say in public that he regularly speaks to Mulroney on matters of policy?



Marijuana Party is to way to go ! Or Marxist-Leninist ? We had a Marxist candidate last Federal election...

The Marijuana Party, fine. The Marxist-Leninist Party? Not in this or any other lifetime would I vote for those commie rats.

[UglyandHasty]

What else do you want me to do, attack them with a 2X4?

Now you're talking !!! ~:cheers: Took you 4 pages !



Then why does Stephen Harper say in public that he regularly speaks to Mulroney on matters of policy?

Seriously mate, do you really think Mulroney powerfull and evil enough to influence Harper into some evil scheme back from the 80's ? Hmmm well maybe... We should ask George Bush dad, Mulroney was an honored guest his last birthday party. heheheh



The Marijuana Party, fine. The Marxist-Leninist Party? Not in this or any other lifetime would I vote for those commie rats.

You should have seen the pictures of the err lady who was the Leninist candidate, that was a classic !!!

[GoreBag]

Being a Quebecer all my life and mostly educated in French and working in French, I know very well that les Quebecois sont les plus Canadiens de tous les Canadiens.


Comment ça?

[Goofball]

Being a Quebecer all my life and mostly educated in French and working in French, I know very well that les Quebecois sont les plus Canadiens de tous les Canadiens.

Nice!

C'est qui, ton père?!?!

(I love that line. One of my Quebecker buddies taught me that a while ago and it always makes me laugh.)

[Beirut]

Comment ça?

Because I'm biased and I think Quebec is best province in Canada and the greatest place on Earth. ~:cheers:

[GoreBag]

Because I'm biased and I think Quebec is best province in Canada and the greatest place on Earth. ~:cheers:

Evidemment, tu n'as jamais visité Nouveau-Brunswick.

[Beirut]

Evidemment, tu n'as jamais visité Nouveau-Brunswick.

Bientot, mon ami, bientot.

J'ai seulement visitez Ontario, Alberta, Colombie Britanique, et le Yukon.

Main mon coeur apartient a Quebec. :smitten:

[lars573]

Ous Novelle Ecosse.

[Goofball]

Man, would Ms. Andersen (my grade 8 French teacher) ever be upset with you guys...

:furious3:

[GoreBag]

Man, would Ms. Andersen (my grade 8 French teacher) ever be upset with you guys...

:furious3:

There's actually nothing wrong with my French. I'm simply too lazy to dig up the character map for the accents for the capital letters, which are a new development, anyway. I'm too old school for that.

Ha, le Yukon avant Nouveau-Brunswick? Ça n'a aucun sens...

En tout cas, c'est beau chez nous aux Maritimes.

[UglyandHasty]

Nos meilleurs vacances à moi et ma femme, on les a passés dans les maritimes. Nouveau Brunswick, Nouvelle-Écosse et Ile du Prince Edouard pendant 2 semaines. J'avoue que j'ai préféré l'ile du Prince Edouard parcequ'il y avait moins de touriste mais tres bien recu partout. Ça roule lentement par contre ~;) C'est aussi là que j'ai découvert la Moosehead et la AlexanderKeith ! ~:cheers:

[GoreBag]

Nos meilleurs vacances à moi et ma femme, on les a passés dans les maritimes. Nouveau Brunswick, Nouvelle-Écosse et Ile du Prince Edouard pendant 2 semaines. J'avoue que j'ai préféré l'ile du Prince Edouard parcequ'il y avait moins de touriste mais tres bien recu partout. Ça roule lentement par contre ~;) C'est aussi là que j'ai découvert la Moosehead et la AlexanderKeith ! ~:cheers:

Ach! Jamais avoir bu Moosehead!? C'est fou! As-tu bu Alpine pendant les vacances?

Même si je suis né aux Maritimes, je préfère les bières Unibroue.

[UglyandHasty]

Alpine for sure ! I had un ami du New-Brunswick who used to, quand on étais to universtity in Rimouski, bring back to his amis des pack de 24 de Alpine ~:cheers:

[Beirut]

Un de les chose that I find most wonderful est L'abilitee a changez de langue plein en middle d'une sentence.

Nous somme very civilized. ~D

[lars573]

I just saw 2 Yankee heads explode with that last exchange.