View Full Version : Iranian democracy in action
Adrian II
05-22-2005, 23:10
Today the Council of Guardians finished vetting the Iranian presidential candidates (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4571495.stm) and surprise, surprise, nearly all of them have been eliminated because they lacked moral values and tangible enthusiasm for the islamic government system.
Among this year's losers of course is the choice of the largest reform party, Mr Mostafa Moin, who should be grateful that he gets away with his life. Oh, and all women are blocked from running, after all they're only fifty five percent of the population.
Good night from democratic Tehran. ~:handball:
Templar Knight
05-22-2005, 23:14
The Iranian government and authorities don't seem to like women ~:pissed:
Krusader
05-23-2005, 00:15
Skin-democracy in action!!
Byzantine Prince
05-23-2005, 00:18
nearly all of them have been eliminated because they lacked moral values and tangible enthusiasm for the islamic government system.
So same thing as America except it's not Islamic but Chrsitian Right, lol. Those damn Democrats and then immoral values!:laugh:
Also in America it's even worse because they can't blame it on a theocracy, only themselves for voting that way.:sad:
Adrian II
05-23-2005, 00:23
Also in America it's even worse because they can't blame it on a theocracy, only themselves for voting that way.:sad:That explains why so many Americans apply for Iranian green cards.
Templar Knight
05-23-2005, 00:27
who do you think will win? ~:)
Adrian II
05-23-2005, 00:30
who do you think will win? ~:)In the end? The women! ~D
Proletariat
05-23-2005, 00:32
Do we get to invade yet?
Byzantine Prince
05-23-2005, 00:37
Do we get to invade yet?
You little bloodthristy communist, you. ~D
Adrian II
05-23-2005, 00:41
Do we get to invade yet?Let the women soften them up first. ~D
Proletariat
05-23-2005, 00:42
*sigh* Fine.
Today the Council of Guardians finished vetting the Iranian presidential candidates (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4571495.stm) and surprise, surprise, nearly all of them have been eliminated because they lacked moral values and tangible enthusiasm for the islamic government system.
Among this year's losers of course is the choice of the largest reform party, Mr Mostafa Moin, who should be grateful that he gets away with his life. Oh, and all women are blocked from running, after all they're only fifty five percent of the population.
Good night from democratic Tehran. ~:handball:
you say all of this as if it is some sort of 'sacred truth' that democracy - as defined by a government system bent on turning society into an evil cesspool of immorality in which all manner of evil runs rampant - is a universal idea that must be shoved down the throats of every society in existence
to that i say - incorrect!
that form of democracy is much worse than what Iran currently has. i applaud Iran for choosing to remain moral and reject evildoers who would have turned their society into a sewer akin to North America and Europe.
Gawain of Orkeny
05-23-2005, 04:52
So much for fair and balanced ~D Anyone still think these guys should have nukes?
that form of democracy is much worse than what Iran currently has. i applaud Iran for choosing to remain moral and reject evildoers who would have turned their society into a sewer akin to North America and Europe.
Choosing to remain moral?
Maybe I've spent too much time in the great sewer, but that's just plain crazy talk.
Iran: Torture Used to Obtain ‘Confessions’
Judiciary’s Secret Squads Whitewash Repression, Incriminate Political Detainees
(New York, December 7, 2004) Secret squads operating under the authority of the Iranian judiciary have used torture to force detained Internet journalists and civil society activists to write self-incriminatory “confession letters,” Human Rights Watch said today.
" The Iranian government shouldn’t think for a minute that anyone will believe in the authenticity of these letters. They’re fooling no one. With stunts like these, Tehran is rapidly losing its already meager credibility on human rights. "
Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch
Contribute to Human Rights Watch
Evidence obtained by Human Rights Watch confirms that secret squads of interrogators—primarily former intelligence officers purged in the late-1990s by President Mohammed Khatami but now employed by the judiciary—forced the detainees to write these “confession letters” under extreme pressure as a condition for their release on bail. In an attempt to cover up the government’s illegal detention and torture of detainees, interrogators have coerced them to write self-incriminatory letters that describe detention conditions as satisfactory and confess that civil society organizations are part of an “evil project” directed by “foreigners and counter-revolutionaries.”
“The Iranian government shouldn’t think for a minute that anyone will believe in the authenticity of these letters. They’re fooling no one,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “With stunts like these, Tehran is rapidly losing its already meager credibility on human rights.”
Human Rights Watch has documented an extensive pattern of forced confessions by political detainees who have later retracted their statements, which they have attributed to their interrogators. The Iranian government continues to pursue a project to strangle critics and activists, one that Human Rights Watch documented in the report, “Like the Dead in Their Coffins.”
In its latest phase, the government has resorted to forced “confessions” to pave the way for the prosecution of reformist politicians and leaders of civil society organizations. By obtaining self-incriminating confessions, the government is attempting to destroy individuals’ reputations, sow discord among activists and ultimately shut down all independent voices and organizations.
Most recently, Human Rights Watch verified independently the contents of a document published anonymously last week by an official working for the Iranian judiciary. In his letter, the official describes the location of secret detention centers and the torture and mistreatment of detainees, including lengthy solitary confinement. The official published this letter in response to the Iranian government’s denial of secret detention centers and the mistreatment of detainees.
Human Rights Watch called on the Iranian government to dismantle and prosecute secret squads operating within the judiciary, end arbitrary detentions, release all political prisoners, and comply with its human rights obligations under international treaties.
“The judiciary is more worried about protecting its secret squads from later prosecution than ensuring the rights of those detained”, said Whitson.
lets see, if I had to choose I'd say that allowing people the freedom to enjoy themselves is more moral than oppressive violence.
But hey, that's just me. You may feel that brutality in the name of morality is somehow acceptable.
ichi :bow:
Gawain of Orkeny
05-23-2005, 05:17
Iran: Torture Used to Obtain ‘Confessions’
Judiciary’s Secret Squads Whitewash Repression, Incriminate Political Detainees
Looks like their a sure fired bet to be invited as the newest members of the UN commision on human rights.
Adrian II
05-23-2005, 11:16
(..) an evil cesspool of immorality in which all manner of evil runs rampant (..)Well, that's theocracy for you. Don't say you weren't warned.
Are Navaros and BP just joking??
English assassin
05-23-2005, 12:08
So much for fair and balanced Anyone still think these guys should have nukes?
Yes but that's not the question.
Not a helpful development I grant you. We shall see whether the desire for reform will come out in some other way.
There isn't any reason why an iranian democracy should look exactly like a western one, and a body such as the Council of Guardians doesn't strike me as inherently objectionable, (not that i would want one myself,) although this particular exercise of their power would seem to be excessive.
OK, so the iranian government needs to go. Are the iranian people doing anything about this, and is there anything we can do to aid them?
Adrian II
05-23-2005, 12:18
Are the Iranian people doing anything about this, and is there anything we can do to aid them?Who is we? If you mean the U.S. the answer is simple: yes, go away.
I would think deposing the iranian regime would be doing something better.
Adrian II
05-23-2005, 12:44
I would think deposing the iranian regime would be doing something better.Not if you (still supposing you mean the U.S.) do it. They hate you.
They hate you for supporting the shah for thirty years.
They hate you for supporting Saddam in his eight-year war against them.
They hate you for occupying a neighbouring country and threatening to bomb and occupy them.
Did I mention they hate you?
Go away. Stay away for at least twenty five years and six blandly smiling, noncommittal U.S. Presidents, and then maybe they'll serve you tea.
English assassin
05-23-2005, 12:47
You forgot to mention for having previously overthrown a popularly elected Iranian government.
The best way to make the Iranians love a repressive theocratic regime would be to engineer regime change. That would be the mother of all insurrections.
Gawain of Orkeny
05-23-2005, 12:47
Recent Report by Amnesty International
Amnesty: Iran Has Executed Tens of Thousands in 16 Years, Associated Press, May 30
Iran has executed tens of thousands of suspected government opponents in the last 16 years and kept large numbers of political prisoners languishing in jail, Amnesty International said Wednesday.
Opposition activists have been targeted for attack over the past 18 months and even Iranian dissidents who fled abroad are not safe, the London-based rights group said in 17- page report.
Despite Iran's refusal to allow human rights investigators into the country, Tehran has not been able to hide its "appalling human rights record,"Amnesty said.
Over the past 15 years, scores of dissidents living outside Iran have been "assassinated in circumstances suggesting they may have been extrajudicially executed by Iranian government agents," it said.
The report cites cases of long-term political prisoners held without trial, and suspected executions of government opponents both inside and outside Iran by government agents...
Four leaders of religious minority groups _ three Christians and a Sunni Muslim _ were found dead recently in suspicious circumstances, believed killed by Iranian government agents, the report said..
More LINK (http://www.iran-e-azad.org/english/hr.html)
Best way to overthrow it would be to drop millions of pictures of the Council of Guardians burning Korans and hiring prostitutes and stuff, that'd destroy their credibility.
Probably considered unethical though.
bmolsson
05-23-2005, 13:01
Sigh...
Gawain of Orkeny
05-23-2005, 16:30
Who is this Council of Guardians ? It seems like Hitlers inner circle or the Communist party. They make sure all candidates tow the party line. Whats the use in an election in those circumstances?
I can see how they can look at the US in much the same manner as every president has been a christain.
I think Iran is seriously ripe for another revolution. Between this 'no reform party candidate' BS, democratic elections in neighboring Iraq and the massive protests that have taken place over the last 5+ years you can bet there are some revolutionary feelings bubbling beneath the surface that have the potential to go volcanic in the near future.
Proletariat
05-23-2005, 17:18
I think Iran is seriously ripe for another revolution. Between this 'no reform party candidate' BS, democratic elections in neighboring Iraq and the massive protests that have taken place over the last 5+ years you can bet there are some revolutionary feelings bubbling beneath the surface that have the potential to go volcanic in the near future.
I'm not falling for that bs again. If they're such a 'red state' like everyone says, they can do it on their own.
Tribesman
05-23-2005, 22:51
Ayatollah Khamenei has asked the Council of Guardians to reconsider .
"It is appropriate that all individuals in the country be given the choice from various political tendancies"
But will they listen to their "supreme leader" ?
Oh, and all women are blocked from running
Adrian , would it be more accurate to say the 89 women on the list of potential candidates have been blocked from running
How long was America a "Democracy" before it gave the vote to women and other races.
However, Iran is a "Theocracy" not a "Democracy", so Iran's actions are not surprising. BTW: The Vatican is also a Theocracy.
Adrian II
05-24-2005, 09:07
Adrian , would it be more accurate to say the 89 women on the list of potential candidates have been blocked from runningIt would be even more accurate to call it another pathetic, corrupt, power-grabbing scam of the beards that be.
Papewaio
05-24-2005, 09:10
How long was America a "Democracy" before it gave the vote to women and other races.
However, Iran is a "Theocracy" not a "Democracy", so Iran's actions are not surprising. BTW: The Vatican is also a Theocracy.
Very good point and how many women get to vote and/or lead in the Catholic Church?
So should we invade the Vatican?
They dress in body covering garb.
Follow an ancient religion.
Sexist in their idea that only men can lead and teach the holy word.
They even have mercenaries.
:dizzy2: :help:
sharrukin
05-24-2005, 09:36
Japan and Germany were once our enemies as was the Soviet Union. Iran could be a very valuable western ally and a better one than some of the creeps we currently call friend.
Iran was hostile to the Taliban and supported the Northern Alliance just as the Americans did. And not a single Iranian citizen was found amongst the thousands of members in Afghanistan which is something Saudia Arabia nor the United States can claim. After the attack on the two towers Iran and Israel were the only middle eastern nations where crowds came out onto the streets against the attacks. In Iran candle-light vigils were held.
Majlis Speaker Mahdi Karrubi and some other Iranian leaders have spoken out against the terrorist attacks on the United States. Iran does support terrorist groups but then so do Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and that doesn't stop the Americans from allying with them.
Iran is at least trying to be a semi-democratic state which is more than most middle eastern nations are doing.
Tribesman
05-24-2005, 22:25
woo hoo progress ~D after Khaneinis pleas the council has reconsidered and let two more candidates go forward . Maybe with a few more pleas he can get the Guardians to reconsider the eligibility of the other 1,006 candidates ~;)
Adrian II
05-24-2005, 23:08
woo hoo progress ~D after Khaneinis pleas the council has reconsidered and let two more candidates go forward . Maybe with a few more pleas he can get the Guardians to reconsider the eligibility of the other 1,006 candidates ~;)This is what IRNA reports:
9th Presidential Election-More Candidates
Iran's Guardian Council (GC) Tuesday gave disqualified Mostafa Moin and Mohsen Mehralizadeh the green light to stand in the June 17 presidential election. The change was made in response to an order from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
The Secretary (Head) of the Guardian Council, Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, writing to Ayatollah Khamenei said, "As you consider it desirable that all people in the country from different interests have the opportunity to take part (in presidential election), the competence of Mr Moin and Mr Mehralizadeh by the GC is recognized."
Imagine Mr Jannati's surprise that the elections should somehow involve people of 'different interests'.
Tribesman
05-24-2005, 23:20
Imagine Mr Jannati's surprise that the elections should somehow involve people of 'different interests'.
Thats what happens when you bring religeous ideals into politics , the nutters try to rewrite the rules based on their own narrow viewpoints .
Imagine if fundamentalist got in power in the West...
i applaud Iran for choosing to remain moral and reject evildoers who would have turned their society into a sewer akin to North America and Europe. ~D ~D ~D
I could start a nice business selling rocks at public stonings though , bound to be a great market for it , it sure beats reality TV ~;)
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