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Gawain of Orkeny
05-26-2005, 02:14
Saran Wrap for ‘Safe’ Teen Sex?
Janice Shaw Crouse (archive)

May 24, 2005

Years ago, the whole country got a laugh out of The Total Woman’s recommendation that wives occasionally spice things up by greeting their husbands wrapped only in Saran Wrap –– the clear, flexible plastic film meant to cover food in the refrigerator.

Today, right-thinking adults should be outraged by the recommendation in the latest “comprehensive” sex-education materials from Planned Parenthood that, for “safe” sex, 8th graders should use Saran Wrap as “protection” when engaging in oral and anal sex.

Excuse me! How did we get to the point where it must be assumed that 8th graders are going to be “performing” oral and anal sex and we have to equip them to do it “safely”? This wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that the sex education lobby — in its supposed superior wisdom — has been pushing to strip kids as young as kindergarten age of their innocence by insisting that they be taught about every kind of deviant sexual practice long before they are emotionally ready for such information.

Why in heaven’s name should teachers be providing curious 8th graders with ever more detailed information that is bound to encourage the more adventurous or emotionally needy ones to experiment sexually? Why talk about oral and anal sex to children, period? The unspoken purpose is clear and has the fingerprints of the gay lobby and NAMBLA all over it. The FBI publishes A Parent’s Guide to the Internet. Note well how it describes the modus operandi of pedophiles: “These individuals attempt to gradually lower children's inhibitions by slowly introducing sexual context and content into their conversations.” And millions of parents are letting so-called sex-education experts do exactly this to their children in the classroom without raising any objection. Unbelievable!

It distresses me to think that any sane, caring adult would want classroom discussions of casual oral and anal sex to be a child’s introduction to such a powerful drive as sex. As a woman I am outraged at the idea that anyone — least of all, a teacher — would want to encourage an adolescent girl to be “used” in such a blatantly sexist way by either young boys wanting to experiment or older guys looking for someone gullible enough to give them momentary pleasure?

Eighth-grade girls should be learning the basic elements required for successful adult relationships; good manners, social etiquette, the give and take of negotiation and conflict resolution –– how to respect themselves and each other; not how to use and abuse the opposite sex in throw-away, disposable, meaningless, fast-food-type couplings.

The Saran Wrap recommendation ought to remove any remaining doubts about Planned Parenthood’s agenda and its qualifications to have a voice in determining our school’s sex-education curriculum. Added proof, the interim president of Planned Parenthood, Karen Pearl, complained that President Bush wanted to increase funding for “dangerous abstinence-only programs by nearly 25 percent.” Without a shred of evidence and contrary to numerous studies, Pearl also asserted that these programs “don’t work” and that the President is catering to “ideological extremists.”
Adding further confirmation of the Left’s disgusting agenda and its callous disregard of children’s well-being, a coalition of organizations from the ideological Left recently mobilized a campaign to stop federal funding for abstinence programs, though abstinence funding is already a minuscule amount of the total federal money allocated to sex education.

The real “ideological extremists” are those groups who show that they really have not a shred of concern about children’s well-being by pushing programs that encourage risky behavior in the short run that will compromise our children’s long-term future prospects for a good and decent life. Nothing could be clearer than the fact that the programs they design, and try to bully parents into accepting, serve only to short-circuit the development of discipline and character formation, and undermine our children’s ability to learn the delayed gratification and self-restraint needed for a productive, happy life.

Janice Shaw Crouse, Senior Fellow, Concerned Women for America, writes regularly on social and cultural issues.

Is this wht you want taught in your kids school?

Papewaio
05-26-2005, 02:17
Well I understood about the birds and the bees at about 4.

But I can't say when I ever got taught about the uses of Saran Wrap... must be an American penchant... ~:cool: ~D ~:eek:

PanzerJaeger
05-26-2005, 02:38
Why talk about oral and anal sex to children, period? The unspoken purpose is clear and has the fingerprints of the gay lobby and NAMBLA all over it.

Shes on the right track. :bow:

Kids shouldnt be taught anything about sex in school - be it abstaining from the act or using saran wrap for protection.

The government has no place in discussing sex with kids- thats the parents job.

By allocating any money at all for "sex education", they have opened themselves up to be used by disgusting groups like Planned Parenthood.

Language, mathematics, science, and history are the jobs of the school system - lifestyle choices are family affairs. (Thats not an Arkansas joke.)

Adrian II
05-26-2005, 02:41
What's the fuzz? Just some column by a hysterical Hausfrau without a clue. I had a closer look at the PP site and their material seems good, if anything they effectively warn kids against paedophiles.

ichi
05-26-2005, 02:55
I spent a lot of time searching the Planned Parenthood site looking for where they advise 8 year olds to use Saran Wrap, but I couldn't find it. I did find where they advise adults to use a condom, or if a condom isn't available, Saran Wrap or other plastic.

What I did find looking in the Just for Teens section of the Planned Parenthood website was


What is the best protection?
The best protection is NO SEX. The second best protection is a condom and a hormonal birth control method used at the same time.

Is there any way I can be 100% positive I won’t contract an STI?
YES! By having no sex at all.

of course, this isn't nearly as shocking or alarming or upsetting as the shocking news that Planned Parenthood trying to help people, including kids, who are probably going to have sex anyway, that they are at risk of pregnancy and STDs, and they reduce the risk of getting pregnant or sick by abstaining or if abstention isnt going to hold out against their 'throbbing biological urges' to protect themselves.

But its more fun when you only tell one of the story.

ichi :bow:

GoreBag
05-26-2005, 03:41
This is overblown and ridiculous. NAMBLA...yeah, right.

No, the 8th-graders are having oral (especially) and anal sex because they want to have sex. To cite a personal case, there was a large cohort of girls at my high school who, almost like a trend, took it only in the butt because "they won't get pregnant". Even more disturbing (if you think that kind of thing is disturbing) is that these girls were all in grade 9 - they had started this trend during their last year in middle school and the rumours followed them in.

Oral sex is less of a problem as I see it. It's much safer than anal sex, and if they're only doing it with other grade 8 kids, there's less chance of contracting any STDs, and a ridiculously small chance of getting pregnant.

Hurin_Rules
05-26-2005, 03:47
How is Saran Wrap any different than a dental dam? They're basically the same thing.

This part made me laugh:


Eighth-grade girls should be learning the basic elements required for successful adult relationships; good manners, social etiquette,

Looks like someone is in a time warp, watching one too many 50s self-help videos. I can see them now: "Girls, here's how to land a husband. Be quiet, polite and cook good meals!"

PanzerJaeger
05-26-2005, 04:11
Its a sad day when learning..


successful adult relationships; good manners, and social etiquette,

...is laughed at.

The world would be a much nicer place if people treated eachother respectfully.

GoreBag
05-26-2005, 04:14
Its a sad day when learning..



...is laughed at.

The world would be a much nicer place if people treated eachother respectfully.

Only that has really nothing to do with using saran wrap as protection during oral and anal sex.

Gregoshi
05-26-2005, 04:18
I wonder when Saran Wrap will come out with a ribbed version? ~:)

AntiochusIII
05-26-2005, 04:18
Yeb. I just toured the website from the link Gawain just gave. I think it's quite selective here - the whole thing is about warning and trying to protect the unprotectable. There's "NO SEX IS BEST" sentences here and there in that website.

Edit: NeonGod, it is disturbing when sexual intercourse among the youngster (I AM still young, by the way) is considered a fashion among students and a must-do-for-those-who-wants-to-be-in-the-crowd rather than a well-calculated personal decision in relationships.

GoreBag
05-26-2005, 04:23
Yeb. I just toured the website from the link Gawain just gave. I think it's quite selective here - the whole thing is about warning and trying to protect the unprotectable. There's "NO SEX IS BEST" sentences here and there in that website.

Edit: NeonGod, it is disturbing when sexual intercourse among the youngster (I AM still young, by the way) is considered a fashion among students and a must-do-for-those-who-wants-to-be-in-the-crowd rather than a well-calculated personal decision in relationships.

Trends come and go. Theft one year, blowjobs in the bathroom the next, anal sex after that...

I think that as long as no one gets hurt (even though the dumb girls undoubtedly will, since they won't bother to look up how to do it properly), anal sex is fine and dandy, maybe even enlightening.

GodsPetMonkey
05-26-2005, 04:32
Why talk about oral and anal sex to children, period? The unspoken purpose is clear and has the fingerprints of the gay lobby and NAMBLA all over it.

How male centric... obviously she has never had her.... ummm, let your imagination fill in the rest. Lets just say you don't have to be male to receive some oral loving.


Eighth-grade girls should be learning the basic elements required for successful adult relationships; good manners, social etiquette, the give and take of negotiation and conflict resolution


Looks like someone is in a time warp, watching one too many 50s self-help videos. I can see them now: "Girls, here's how to land a husband. Be quiet, polite and cook good meals!"

Less sex ed, more home ec! After all, the only skills a young women needs is how to cook a good roast meal every night, and mend her man's clothes!
Who says domestic servitude is dead?

Seriously, by 8th grade, I, and my peers, knew more about sex then we would be taught in sex ed, and it wasn't that long ago. Hell, I remember everyone cracking anal sex jokes back in primary school, but that doesn't mean we did it.

Sounds like some bitter house wife that wants today’s teenage girls to end up living the crappy life she choose for herself. Maybe she should cook less turkeys, and live a little more.

AntiochusIII
05-26-2005, 04:32
anal sex is fine and dandy, maybe even enlightening.*note: Antiochus's evil attempt at choosing selective evidence to unrightfully accuse NeonGod of perversion*

...

~D

Aurelian
05-26-2005, 05:25
This is just another one of the many hysterical "culture wars" stories that the radcons put out to keep their base foaming on about liberal perversions. Once you look into it a bit, there isn't anything to it.

Fragony
05-26-2005, 05:33
Most people have sex when they are 15, what do you want more teenage pregnancies? Educate them, we get sexual education at the age of 13/14, and no teenage pregnancies over here.

bmolsson
05-26-2005, 07:59
I also heard that they don't warn teenagers against masturbation either. I mean come on, do we want our children get hairy hands and impaired sight...... ~;)

Byzantine Prince
05-26-2005, 08:18
Well I am a huge advocate for anal sex. I can't help it, it's in my genes. ~;)

I am however against sex ed. Period. I don't even think parents should teach children about it, let alone complete strangers. If you don't know something is doable(have exact instructions, not a bunch of dirty jokes) then chances are heavily that you won't ever do it unles you really push yourself.

Isn't it much more fun to discover it later on in life, when an individual is mature enough to take it seriously and not as just another game. Kids that date early and have sex early are liable to take the whole "finding a mate" thing as a big game and end up never settling down. You know like those pathetic women on that show Sex and the City.

bmolsson
05-26-2005, 08:28
I am however against sex ed. Period.


Still have a trauma after the first times fumbling, huh...... ~:grouphug:

Husar
05-26-2005, 12:01
Well I am a huge advocate for anal sex. I can't help it, it's in my genes. ~;)

I am however against sex ed. Period. I don't even think parents should teach children about it, let alone complete strangers. If you don't know something is doable(have exact instructions, not a bunch of dirty jokes) then chances are heavily that you won't ever do it unles you really push yourself.

Isn't it much more fun to discover it later on in life, when an individual is mature enough to take it seriously and not as just another game. Kids that date early and have sex early are liable to take the whole "finding a mate" thing as a big game and end up never settling down. You know like those pathetic women on that show Sex and the City.

Wow, I can fully agree with you. ~D ~:cheers:

Duke Malcolm
05-26-2005, 12:17
Most people have sex when they are 15, what do you want more teenage pregnancies? Educate them, we get sexual education at the age of 13/14, and no teenage pregnancies over here.

Maybe that's why we have so many teenage pregnancies, we get sex education at about 10 here, until we leave school, and every few months or so from

I don't exactly understand how the Saran Wrap (which, I presume, is what some people do with cling film) is used, nor do I understand what 8th grade relates to (presumably the 8th year in school, however; equivalent to S1/1st Year, over here).

An effort to reduce teen pregnancies and rocketing STIs has been to teach sex education earlier. I have been led to believe that it is now taught to those around 8. Since it has been taught early, and indeed taught at all, teen pregnancies and STIs have increased greatly, and I am sure some are aware from previous ramblings of mine, Dundee has the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe. Sex education is most certainly to blame for this, especially since it also allows parents to blame the schools for not teaching enough about it, which is entirely wrong.

doc_bean
05-26-2005, 12:19
Sex ed (at grade 6) here was pretty boring, just the technicalities of 'normal' sex and then a whole lot of warnings about std's.

I remember my cousin back when he was 11 or something thought you needed a condom to masturbate, that's how far we have pushed safe sex education here.

And BTW Frag, the average age of first sexual intercourse seems to depend a lot on where you live and your social 'class'. But all statistics point out that the average is higher than 15.

I say there is again a need for sex polls, I think the results will be surprising to those who think we are all a bunch of degenerates now.

In an ideal world sex education would be given by parents, but the sad fact is that most won't talk about sex with their children, and sometimes, since they were never properly informed, they just give wrong information. I believe sex education should focus on the risks of sex (STDs, pregnancy) rather than on techniques (you can learn those yourself). Kids should be aware that sex isn't all fun and games. And it would be nice if they pointed out that the average age people start having sex is 17-18 (in Belgium anyway), so they don't go through teenage life too frustrated.
Social skills should be taught by parents, we did have another course (in our religion class) about relationships and the emotional side of things (grade 10 I think).

Overall I'm pretty happy with the situation here, none of the UK or US excesses seem to be as pronounced here, but maybe that's just on the surface, I hope not.

English assassin
05-26-2005, 12:25
Trends come and go. Theft one year, blowjobs in the bathroom the next, anal sex after that...

Boy oh boy, the kids in the "theft" year really got the short straw there didn't they?



It distresses me to think that any sane, caring adult would want classroom discussions of casual oral and anal sex to be a child’s introduction to such a powerful drive as sex. As a woman I am outraged at the idea that anyone — least of all, a teacher — would want to encourage an adolescent girl to be “used” in such a blatantly sexist way by either young boys wanting to experiment or older guys looking for someone gullible enough to give them momentary pleasure?

Well here's someone who is comfortable with her own sexuality, eh. Sex is dirty, girls, boys "use" you. I think we just discovered the previously unsuspected common ground between the religious right and Andrea Dworkin.

But obviously a fact based discussion of oral and anal sex in a controlled environment mediated by a responsible adult is a truly appalling way for children to be introduced to sex. Why can't they make do with misunderstood rumours before marrying some similarly clueless gimp and enjoying a lifetime of sexual unfulfilment, after all it made Janice the woman she is today....

What a total shmuck.

Steppe Merc
05-26-2005, 12:49
A lot of kids in the middle school of my town are doing anal and oral...
A lot more um adventerous than I was there... I think.
And this person certaintly is looking for zombies where they don't exist. And do they really think that 8th graders don't already know about sex? Gimme a break.


Boy oh boy, the kids in the "theft" year really got the short straw there didn't they?
In my school, it's the arsonist year... :dizzy2:
About 5 fires started so far...

And in Middle school (at least when I was there), it's all about STDs and stuff...

Ja'chyra
05-26-2005, 13:01
I think this all comes back to the "Dad's Dating Rules" thread, this is the province of parents not school.

Krusader
05-26-2005, 13:23
@PanzerJager:
I agree with what you say!!

However, I've seen first-hand what happened to some hometown girls who didn't know about sex, as they hadn't been taught anything at home, except that it was bad. Pregnant at 16...ain't that fun?

There are many parents who don't tell their kids about sex and what it entails. My impression is that they either ignore it and hope the subject goes away/kids learn other places, or tell them that sex is bad and they shouldnt do it.
If they do the latter one their children will be definetly more interesting in doing it, since they want to know why it is bad.

And in Norway, there's sex-ed in high school from around when you become 13-14 years old.

Grey_Fox
05-26-2005, 13:42
The plain sad fact of the matter is that blowjobs are now the norm amongst teenagers who are 13 and over where I live (Ireland). The average age for intercourse is 14-15. If these kids don't know about safe sex and don't practice it very much, you will have a rapid increase in teen pregnancies and STI's.

Also, puberty is occuring at an earlier age than before. The reasons for the earlier instances of puberty could be due to all the chemicals pumped into food nowadays or just nature.

Also about sex education. The kids out there already know about sex (or at least how it happens). I knew what it was when I was 10. My parents never talked to me about it. My teachers never talked to me about it. i just knew it, and kids nowadays know about it at an even younger age.

Kraxis
05-26-2005, 14:03
I just remembered something.

In the 50s and 60s there were plenty, and I mean a very high percentage, of marriages where the child was born after 6-7 months after the wedding. Remember it was a time of gossip and pointing fingers so there were plenty people to figure those things out.
I can see how no sex ed benefited them, they learned fast that they needed to get married, and just suck down all the strange stares and pointed fingers. Yes let us return to that please.

I think we have had sex ed since the late 60s or something like that, and last many years the first timers are getting older and older, I think they are about 18 now, older than most in the 50s if I'm not mistaken.
Stupidity abounds in any society, and you will always find those that do what has been mentioned. Rather they know what is going on than try and find out themselves an do something wrong, for people that don't know certainly WILL do.

Idaho
05-26-2005, 15:26
I think most of you are talking crap. Except Aurelian - who you are all unworthy to share a thread with.

Now go and beat yourselves for having impure thought - preferrably a hard thwack on the testies with a bible.

BDC
05-26-2005, 15:43
I think you should let kids be kids. It's not right.

I never leant anything from sex ed. It's hardly as if this sort of information is hard to come accross anyway. There's no great taboo in talking about sex.

Kraxis
05-26-2005, 16:00
I think you should let kids be kids. It's not right.

I never leant anything from sex ed. It's hardly as if this sort of information is hard to come accross anyway. There's no great taboo in talking about sex.
That is the point... They will search out the info themselves. But then there is the uncertainty of how it is presented.

ichi
05-26-2005, 16:26
I think most of you are talking crap. Except Aurelian - who you are all unworthy to share a thread with.

Now go and beat yourselves for having impure thought - preferrably a hard thwack on the testies with a bible.

wow, that's harsh, cause Aurelian said


This is just another one of the many hysterical "culture wars" stories that the radcons put out to keep their base foaming on about liberal perversions. Once you look into it a bit, there isn't anything to it.


long after I said


of course, this isn't nearly as shocking or alarming or upsetting as the shocking news that Planned Parenthood trying to help people, including kids, who are probably going to have sex anyway, that they are at risk of pregnancy and STDs, and they reduce the risk of getting pregnant or sick by abstaining or if abstention isnt going to hold out against their 'throbbing biological urges' to protect themselves.

But its more fun when you only tell one of the story.


No offense meant to Aurelian, but Adrian and NeonGod and even Grego got in some good stuff that was quite worthy.

ichi :bow:

ps I can't find my Bible so I whacked myself with a Victoria's Secret Catalog

Gawain of Orkeny
05-26-2005, 17:12
Planned parenthood is nothing more than an abortion clinic for profit. From the teen section


Look for a health center that will give you complete information about your options. If you need help, call your local Planned Parenthood. If you would like to have confidential pregnancy options counseling at the nearest Planned Parenthood health center, call toll-free 1-800-230-PLAN. Beware of so-called "crisis pregnancy centers" that are anti-abortion. Some of them advertise free pregnancy testing, but

* They may perform your pregnancy tests without medical supervision.

* They won't give you complete and correct information about all your options.

* They will try to frighten you with films that are designed to keep you from choosing abortion.

* They will lie to you about the medical and emotional effects of abortion.

* They may tell you that you are not pregnant even if you are, to fool you into continuing your pregnancy. The delay would make abortion more risky and keep you from getting prenatal care.

* They will discourage you from using the most reliable methods of birth control.

Its a blantant ad. And dont tell me they go out of their way to discourage abortion and try to convince the mother not to abort.

English assassin
05-26-2005, 17:46
You must be pot, I'm kettle. My, you're sooty.

Is it ok to push an agenda on teens so long as its the right one? Or is it not OK to push any agenda?


And dont tell me they go out of their way to discourage abortion and try to convince the mother not to abort

OK, I won't. Because that would be wrong of them if they did.

monkian
05-26-2005, 18:05
Trends come and go. Theft one year, blowjobs in the bathroom the next, anal sex after that...

I think that as long as no one gets hurt (even though the dumb girls undoubtedly will, since they won't bother to look up how to do it properly), anal sex is fine and dandy, maybe even enlightening.

Hmmm... my girlfriend has just asked me if theres anything new I'd like to try in the bedroom... ~D

PanzerJaeger
05-26-2005, 20:57
@PanzerJager:
I agree with what you say!!

However, I've seen first-hand what happened to some hometown girls who didn't know about sex, as they hadn't been taught anything at home, except that it was bad. Pregnant at 16...ain't that fun?

There are many parents who don't tell their kids about sex and what it entails. My impression is that they either ignore it and hope the subject goes away/kids learn other places, or tell them that sex is bad and they shouldnt do it.
If they do the latter one their children will be definetly more interesting in doing it, since they want to know why it is bad.

And in Norway, there's sex-ed in high school from around when you become 13-14 years old.

Parental irresponsibility is no reason to have the government teach kids about sex. It is a personal issue that is dealt with extremely different in families. Some may feel their child shouldnt have sex at all while others feel they should explore or whatever.

If girls get pregnant.. well too bad. We have no social responsibility for idiocy.

Therefore sex should not be discussed by teachers at all. :bow:

And to allow a disguised abortion clinic into the classroom is disgusting. I would never send my child to public school - for this and many other reasons.. :no:

Big King Sanctaphrax
05-26-2005, 21:03
Parental irresponsibility is no reason to have the government teach kids about sex.

So your attitude is 'Well, your parents are too lazy/ill-informed/embarrassed to teach you about sex-too bad. It's not my problem'? Because this seems rather irresponsible to me.

If all parents provided their offspring with all of the information they needed to have a safe sex life, I would agree that the need for sex education courses would be minimal-we would still need to teach children the science behind it, but that is something for biology. However, this is patently not the case, and to ensure that all children recieve at least a modicum of education it must be taught in schools.

Adrian II
05-26-2005, 21:05
If girls get pregnant.. well too bad. We have no social responsibility for idiocy.I believe Mrs Atkins of 'baby factory' fame is still available. The two of you would make a credible couple.

GoreBag
05-26-2005, 21:43
Hmmm... my girlfriend has just asked me if theres anything new I'd like to try in the bedroom... ~D

Try it outside of the bedroom, maybe?


Boy oh boy, the kids in the "theft" year really got the short straw there didn't they?

Depends on what they stole...


Also, puberty is occuring at an earlier age than before. The reasons for the earlier instances of puberty could be due to all the chemicals pumped into food nowadays or just nature.

Improved nutrition, actually.

PanzerJaeger
05-26-2005, 21:48
If all parents provided their offspring with all of the information they needed to have a safe sex life, I would agree that the need for sex education courses would be minimal-we would still need to teach children the science behind it, but that is something for biology. However, this is patently not the case, and to ensure that all children recieve at least a modicum of education it must be taught in schools.

Following in that same line of thought - If parents decided to be lazy and not pay for their children's clothes or medical care - we as society should be taxed more to pay for their irresponsibility.

The problem lies with the parents - and there is a point where people need to get off the government tit and stop relying on it to teach things that may make them embarrassed, and then getting pissed off when their child comes home with a condom or a pamphlet telling them not to ever have sex before marriage. Thats what you get when you replace basic parenting with government programs.

Sex isnt rocket science, and if a girl is too much of an idiot to figure things out for herself than her parents should have her locked in the house. Family failure is not society's responsibility.

Im very tired of people feeling that a person's self inflicted misfortunes are everyone's fault but the actual person's. Childhood pregnancy is no-ones fault but the people directly involved - the children and the families.

GoreBag
05-26-2005, 21:52
Following in that same line of thought - If parents decided to be lazy and not pay for their children's clothes or medical care - we as society should be taxed more to pay for their irresponsibility.

The problem lies with the parents - and there is a point where people need to get off the government tit and stop relying on it to teach things that may make them embarrassed, and then getting pissed off when their child comes home with a condom or a pamphlet telling them not to ever have sex before marriage. Thats what you get when you replace basic parenting with government programs.

Sex isnt rocket science, and if a girl is too much of an idiot to figure things out for herself than her parents should have her locked in the house. Family failure is not society's responsibility.

Im very tired of people feeling that a person's self inflicted misfortunes are everyone's fault but the actual person's. Childhood pregnancy is no-ones fault but the people directly involved - the children and the families.

The families are indirectly involved. In any case, the bottom line is that the dumb girl or dumb guy or dumb both didn't know. That's the premise behind sex education. Not "we feel the need to tell your kids what to think", but "well, since not all parents are going to be responsible, someone else needs to tell the kids".

PanzerJaeger
05-26-2005, 22:01
The families are indirectly involved. In any case, the bottom line is that the dumb girl or dumb guy or dumb both didn't know. That's the premise behind sex education. Not "we feel the need to tell your kids what to think", but "well, since not all parents are going to be responsible, someone else needs to tell the kids".

And thats my point.

How long are we, the responsible, going to subsidized the irresponsible. This question transcends this specific issue and goes to the heart of the welfare system and many other aspects of the government.

GoreBag
05-26-2005, 22:13
And thats my point.

How long are we, the responsible, going to subsidized the irresponsible. This question transcends this specific issue and goes to the heart of the welfare system and many other aspects of the government.

It's not "we"; you're obviously not doing it. Besides, it's a reactionary philosophy - shouldn't you like it? Kidding.

As long as you can guarantee that people don't need sex ed, then you can get rid of it. Until then, it's not really your business.

Big King Sanctaphrax
05-26-2005, 22:17
And thats my point.

How long are we, the responsible, going to subsidized the irresponsible. This question transcends this specific issue and goes to the heart of the welfare system and many other aspects of the government.

This isn't about subsidizing the irresponsible-if the parents' failure to teach their children possibly affected on themselves, I can see what you might be talking about-I think it's a rather callous way of thinking, but I can see where you'd be coming from. However, getting rid of sex education because it's 'subsidizing the irresponsible' is punishing the children-who are totally blameless-for the shortcomings of their parents. That's not right.

Gawain of Orkeny
05-26-2005, 22:24
Is it ok to push an agenda on teens so long as its the right one? Or is it not OK to push any agenda?

Well thats what planned parenthood does and most here seem to support that. As long as sex ed in school needs parental approval I see no problem with it. As a parent though I want to know whats going to be taught in this class. The agenda to be pushed is how to avoid teen pregnancy and STDs but it should be up to the parents how or what agenda they want pushed on their children.


OK, I won't. Because that would be wrong of them if they did.

So now trying to talk someone out of killing an innocent life is wrong? Thats a disgusting position.

Big King Sanctaphrax
05-26-2005, 22:32
The agenda to be pushed is how to avoid teen pregnancy and STDs but it should be up to the parents how or what agenda they want pushed on their children.

Who wouldn't want their children to avoid STDs and underage pregnancy?

PanzerJaeger
05-26-2005, 22:51
It's not "we"; you're obviously not doing it. Besides, it's a reactionary philosophy - shouldn't you like it? Kidding.

As long as you can guarantee that people don't need sex ed, then you can get rid of it. Until then, it's not really your business.

Someone doesnt understand the how the government works. ~;)

You sound like a child who has just been talked down to size - "Its none of your business!" As long as i am paying taxes i have a say in what the government does with my money.



This isn't about subsidizing the irresponsible-if the parents' failure to teach their children possibly affected on themselves, I can see what you might be talking about-I think it's a rather callous way of thinking, but I can see where you'd be coming from. However, getting rid of sex education because it's 'subsidizing the irresponsible' is punishing the children-who are totally blameless-for the shortcomings of their parents. That's not right.

It may be callous but in the long run its a better strategy. When these kids grow up they will expect the government to teach their kids about sex and what else? We shouldnt keep going down the road of handing over our responsibilities to the government.

Its called personal responsibility - and if these kids' parents dont have it then sadly they should have to learn it themselves the hard way or else they never will and they will grow up expecting entitlements and the government to do what they should do themselves.

Big King Sanctaphrax
05-26-2005, 22:53
How is denying these kids the information that could prevent them getting pregnant and/or full of venereal disease going to teach them anything?

PanzerJaeger
05-26-2005, 23:01
It allows more time for things like science, language and math to be taught - school is only 7 hours over here, if that, so taking time to teach kids how to have sex properly must take away from something right?

And more importantly when they get older they will not shirk their own responsibilities in favor of the government.

Goofball
05-26-2005, 23:16
Anal?!? Oral!?!

Where were all these girls when I was in junior high? The best I was ever able to talk a girl into at that age was allowing me to attempt some awkward, sloppy, and thoroughly unskilled nipple-play...

Damn!

Big King Sanctaphrax
05-27-2005, 00:55
It allows more time for things like science, language and math to be taught - school is only 7 hours over here, if that, so taking time to teach kids how to have sex properly must take away from something right?

And more importantly when they get older they will not shirk their own responsibilities in favor of the government.

Seems to me it would just make them pregnant and ill.

PanzerJaeger
05-27-2005, 01:05
We managed well enough for hundreds of years without sex-ed.

ichi
05-27-2005, 01:18
We managed well enough for hundreds of years without sex-ed.

Yes, for thousands

We've always had teen sex, abortion, STDs, and all the rest.

While I agree that it isn't the job of schools to teach kids about sex (that's what family and social institutions are for), information is power. To think that by not telling kids about sex we are protecting them is ludicrous. Ignorance may be bliss, but teens will have sex if they can and it's better for them to be informed about how to protect themselves from STDs and pregnancy.

suggesting that they are better off ignorant basically denies some simple facts.

Do you really think that if all of the sex-ed programs were outlawed that kids would stop?

ichi :bow:

PanzerJaeger
05-27-2005, 01:30
suggesting that they are better off ignorant basically denies some simple facts.

Do you really think that if all of the sex-ed programs were outlawed that kids would stop?

You must have misread what I wrote.

My opinion is that it is not the government's responsibility to teach kids how to have sex, its the parents.

I never said that they were better off knowing nothing.

Papewaio
05-27-2005, 03:59
And if the parents fail to educate the kids who looks after the grandkids?

Do we let the grandchildren repeat the problems and create a spiral downwards?

Or does society have to step in and fix the issue?

Surely prevention is cheaper then cure...

And why draw the line at health education, why not have parents teach the rest of the courses.

Gawain of Orkeny
05-27-2005, 04:48
And if the parents fail to educate the kids who looks after the grandkids?

Do we let the grandchildren repeat the problems and create a spiral downwards?

Well looking at the welfare system prior to reform it sure looked like liberals favored that.


Or does society have to step in and fix the issue?

Surely prevention is cheaper then cure...

And why draw the line at health education, why not have parents teach the rest of the courses.

Why stop there? Why not just turn our kids over to the government to bring up to be proper citizens . Thats where all this is going with daycare centers and the like. We take our most precious possessions, our children and pack them off to liberal indoctrination everyday. Then they get in the real world and it takes another 30 years of work and conservative indocrination to straighten them out.

Papewaio
05-27-2005, 04:59
Funny I always saw kindergarten as a place for people who valued money over family... neither conservative or liberal.

PanzerJaeger
05-27-2005, 06:05
Society has managed for hundreds of years without having such personal family issues taught in school.

Handing over that responsibility to the federal government is anything but progress. It signals a fundamental breakdown in the family unit that quick fixes like making teachers do the parental dirty work will eventually be unable to fix.

Gawain has been posting articles like this for a while and all the left does is laugh but he and many other people have woken up to the fact that the family unit is in trouble and the government tit isnt the answer. :bow:

Papewaio
05-27-2005, 06:15
Parents should always be the primary teachers of their children.

School should be there to cover the gaps.

BDC
05-27-2005, 09:56
Funny I always saw kindergarten as a place for people who valued money over family... neither conservative or liberal.
I just saw it as a place working parents sent their kids because they couldn't afford to take time off work due to extravagant house prices.

I see your point though. I think it's beneficial to interact with people from a young age, just maybe not all the time.

doc_bean
05-27-2005, 09:57
It allows more time for things like science, language and math to be taught - school is only 7 hours over here, if that, so taking time to teach kids how to have sex properly must take away from something right?


It took one afternoon (2 hours, we only have 5 hours in elementary school), hardly a gigantic waste of time and/or money.



And more importantly when they get older they will not shirk their own responsibilities in favor of the government.

Yes, people do seem to have a problem with blaming everything on the 'government' or 'society' for problems they created. But I think the demise of the family unit is what prompted the need for government intervention. Not the other way around.

Idaho
05-27-2005, 12:15
wow, that's harsh, cause Aurelian said
...
long after I said
..
No offense meant to Aurelian, but Adrian and NeonGod and even Grego got in some good stuff that was quite worthy.

ichi :bow:

ps I can't find my Bible so I whacked myself with a Victoria's Secret Catalog

Goddamn it - you don't actually expect me to read these threads properly do you? :dizzy2:

You didn't whack hard enough - go back and try again. And sponge down that keyboard.

Idaho
05-27-2005, 12:20
We take our most precious possessions, our children and pack them off to liberal indoctrination everyday.

Oh my god Gawain you are so right! Yesterday my son went to nursery for the morning and do you know what those cwazy wiberals did to him? They exposed him to a stream of propaganda but cleverly dressed it up as a beekeeper teaching them about bees. Bees eh? Bees.. birds and bees - birds.. wings.. evolution.. birds take care of their young.. look after their welfare .. don't you see? It's so clear!

Gawain my hit is wearing off and you've been hogging that crack pipe all morning - pass it over will ya?

Steppe Merc
05-27-2005, 12:48
It allows more time for things like science, language and math to be taught - school is only 7 hours over here, if that, so taking time to teach kids how to have sex properly must take away from something right? PJ, almost all of school is pointless. Besides, in my school it's a marking period instead of Gym (you go to Health instead of Gym). Nothing is being lost, and any break from the pointlessness is a positive, not a negative.


Why stop there? Why not just turn our kids over to the government to bring up to be proper citizens . Thats where all this is going with daycare centers and the like. We take our most precious possessions, our children and pack them off to liberal indoctrination everyday. Then they get in the real world and it takes another 30 years of work and conservative indocrination to straighten them out.
I disagree. School is indoctration to brainwash people into thinking that they need to have the highest grade, waste the most time out of their day, and to make people think that they need to compete with each other. Grades are pointless, and only create strife and worsen people's overall preformance.

Big King Sanctaphrax
05-27-2005, 13:04
Grades are pointless, and only create strife and worsen people's overall preformance.

Er...surely you agree that we do need some method of assesing children's progress?

As for school being pointless, I'm fairly sure both you and I would be a bit different without the education we've had-and which we take for granted.

Steppe Merc
05-27-2005, 13:07
Well I mean the grading style that we currently have... I don't understand why we need to be so god damn competitive... I really don't see what grades indicate. Certaintly not intelligence...

Big King Sanctaphrax
05-27-2005, 13:14
Well I mean the grading style that we currently have... I don't understand why we need to be so god damn competitive... I really don't see what grades indicate. Certaintly not intelligence...

I can't really speak about the grading style in American schools, but at A-level in Britain we're graded A through E. As a general rule, if you work hard you will get high grades, if you don't you will get low grades. I don't really see what the problem is.

Steppe Merc
05-27-2005, 13:21
It's probably my school, cause it's very competitive. But a lot of it seems more like memorization of information that will help no one and regurjitating it, rather than actually contributing helpfully. And yes, someone who works hard ought to get good grades. But a lot of people work hard, and still do horribley.


As for school being pointless, I'm fairly sure both you and I would be a bit different without the education we've had-and which we take for granted.
Yes, I probably went to far. But it seems to me that a lot of the stuff that is taught is very specific and none to helpful in the real world, or for becoming educated about real issues. Education is important, but not forced education of stuff that almost everyone will forget.

doc_bean
05-27-2005, 14:48
It's probably my school, cause it's very competitive. But a lot of it seems more like memorization of information that will help no one and regurjitating it, rather than actually contributing helpfully. And yes, someone who works hard ought to get good grades. But a lot of people work hard, and still do horribley.


Yes, I probably went to far. But it seems to me that a lot of the stuff that is taught is very specific and none to helpful in the real world, or for becoming educated about real issues. Education is important, but not forced education of stuff that almost everyone will forget.

You need to have a reasonable level of intelligence AND work hard to get high grades, essentially, good grades mean good results, which means you are 'efficient' or 'productive' , which is what society needs from most people, we (or our governments) can't provide for education tailer made for each student.

I actually think the Brittish/US system of education is better than the continental system (well the belgian system, but I think it's pretty much the same all over Europe). Students get to select individual courses based on their interest and get to take more advanced courses in certain subjects. In our system you have to choose a certain 'direction' like math-science, and you than get a predetermined set of courses (government set hours and 'goals'). This certainly adds to the mass production feeling.

Of course, it does seem to have an affect on the difficulty, since most of the time US education is considered bad, because they let everyone pass, they seem to have higher standards here.

I think both effects are correlated, but it might just be coincidence.

ah_dut
05-27-2005, 15:17
It's probably my school, cause it's very competitive. But a lot of it seems more like memorization of information that will help no one and regurjitating it, rather than actually contributing helpfully. And yes, someone who works hard ought to get good grades. But a lot of people work hard, and still do horribley.

I really think it's the same all over the world...there is plenty of pointless stuff to do in school. I mean what is the use of most of our lessons? We know we'll drop a good few subjects by next year ~D

Give us more physical activity lessons! Drop ART ~D :duel: Well for me anyways as I am not allowed to take it anyways


Anal?!? Oral!?!

Where were all these girls when I was in junior high? The best I was ever able to talk a girl into at that age was allowing me to attempt some awkward, sloppy, and thoroughly unskilled nipple-play...

Damn!
welcome to 2005...I am serious, know the right kinda girls and anything goes :duel: unfortunately I don't seem to :furious3:

Kraxis
05-27-2005, 15:54
I suddenly remembered an article that was posted either here or on another forum.

It was about a young German couple that simply couldn't get children. Coming from a deeply religious community they had a hard time talking about it, but eventually they contacted a fertility clinic.
When they had done the forms the doctor came out and sat down with them and asked calmly:

"Have you tried sex? It might help the problem."

And in fact they hadn't. They had never been taught that sex was what creates children, only that it is bad. And being good christians they adhered to the teachings. They had thought that children was a result of marriage itself.

So, while I don't think that people here have claimed that ignorance to sex is good, it is a good indicator of how silly it can get.

lars573
05-27-2005, 16:22
Is this wht you want taught in your kids school?

It's what (and when) I was taught in school. I got sex ed in grade 8. Most uncomfortable class ever.

doc_bean
05-27-2005, 17:24
I suddenly remembered an article that was posted either here or on another forum.

It was about a young German couple that simply couldn't get children. Coming from a deeply religious community they had a hard time talking about it, but eventually they contacted a fertility clinic.
When they had done the forms the doctor came out and sat down with them and asked calmly:

"Have you tried sex? It might help the problem."

And in fact they hadn't. They had never been taught that sex was what creates children, only that it is bad. And being good christians they adhered to the teachings. They had thought that children was a result of marriage itself.

So, while I don't think that people here have claimed that ignorance to sex is good, it is a good indicator of how silly it can get.

I'm pretty sure this is an urban myth.
There is a similar story about a couple of gypsies who couldn't get children because they always used the 'wrong' hole ~D

Funny, but most likely untrue.

ichi
05-27-2005, 17:48
There is a similar story about a couple of gypsies who couldn't get children because they always used the 'wrong' hole

There's a 'wrong' hole?

I knew I should have been paying attention in sex-ed!!

Adrian II
05-27-2005, 17:50
There's a 'wrong' hole?

I knew I should have been paying attention in sex-ed!!This whole thread is fast going down the wrong hole. And don't we love it! ~D

Fragony
05-27-2005, 18:56
This whole thread is fast going down the wrong hole. And don't we love it! ~D

aldus de ridder van de rode ster ~;)

KukriKhan
05-27-2005, 19:22
This whole thread is fast going down the wrong hole. And don't we love it! ~D

I agree. We've gone from "Sex Ed: Right or Wrong?" through "All School is Dumb" to Urban Legends. No way out of this but down.

We thank all contributors for their insights; further discussion should be in new threads. This one is closed.