View Full Version : Is John McCain being groomed to run for President
I watched the John McCain biography movie tonight - Faith of my Father.
Made me wonder is he being sold to the American People before the next election to provide even more name recongition then any other possible candidate?
Byzantine Prince
05-31-2005, 06:22
He's so liberal even JAG would vote for him. ~D
He's so liberal even JAG would vote for him. ~D
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0061103
So is he a liberial or a moderate?
I think his record shows that he is a moderate, with postions in both the liberial agenda and the conservative agenda.
Byzantine Prince
05-31-2005, 06:33
I've seen him on the John Stewart show, he seemed like a pretty moderate honest person. He'd make a great president. Then again one never knows about these things until they hapen.
I watched the John McCain biography movie tonight - Faith of my Father.
Made me wonder is he being sold to the American People before the next election to provide even more name recongition then any other possible candidate?The guy is such a media darling- it's practically nauseating. As I've said before, he'll never get my support or my vote.
The most horriffic thing I could imagine would be a race between him and Hillary.... I think I'd have no choice that I could live with other than voting 3rd party.
He's so liberal even JAG would vote for him. ~D
You know from what I have seen of him, he is not a liberal but I would contemplate voting for him. He seems a hard working, honest bloke who is not on the extreme christian right of his party and in the pocket of that lobby. He does also seem to have some views which are just common sense and completely correct - on the financing of Presidential and other political campaigns.
Most definitely one of the best Republican candidates out there, imo.
PanzerJaeger
05-31-2005, 07:37
He seems like a Jimmy Carter to me. A nice, easy talking, common sense guy who doesnt have the balls for the white house. (Yes I know hes a war vet, those arent the balls im talking about)
It seems to me he would have a hard time making tough decisions and sticking to them. He seems a bit indecisive, and of course way too moderate.
There was a piece in the Sunday Times mooting the same idea. It does not seem serious. The killer points seem to be (a) he's too moderate to be nominated by the Republicans; (b) he's too old [In the UK, being over retirement age now seems to disqualify people from leading the country.]
doc_bean
05-31-2005, 11:02
I thought he should have been president 8years ago.
Now I'm not sure, I think Condi should run, she's even more a media darling (her views on the use of torture are rather unfortunate though.).
But whoever runs against Hillary is bound to win, so what does it matter ?
4 more years !
(always back the winner)
Gawain of Orkeny
05-31-2005, 13:46
Any chance he had to run went down the tubes with his recent deal on the filibusters.
Hurin_Rules
05-31-2005, 16:31
I hoped he would get the nod in 2000, as he's one of the few Republicans I would ever vote for. But he's too centrist to win the Republican nomination, unfortunately.
ICantSpellDawg
05-31-2005, 16:37
if he is who the republicans run for president i will of course vote for him
and it might not be such a bad idea
hillary is seen as a liberal dog of war
a "moderate" republican would hopefully trounce her
but personally, ive never been a fan of his politics
mercian billman
05-31-2005, 16:37
I didn't watch Faith of My Fathers, but I asked myself the same question Redleg did.
While he would make a good presidential candidate, he won't win the nomination of his party because he's to old and too moderate. That being said, I really can't think of anybody else the Republicans could run in 2008.
Proletariat
05-31-2005, 17:03
The guy is such a media darling- it's practically nauseating. As I've said before, he'll never get my support or my vote.
Most enjoyable thing about the filibuster non-sense was watching this moron castrate his chances for any shot at '08. I was deadwrong a few weeks ago when I mentioned he was much more right wing than people thought.
Maybe he has already decided to skip the Republican primaries and just run as a 3rd party candidate. (Which really blows since that's probably the only way Hill could have a snowball's chance at this thing.)
Byzantine Prince
05-31-2005, 17:16
Most enjoyable thing about the filibuster non-sense was watching this moron castrate his chances for any shot at '08.
If this guys is a moron then what does that make George Bush, a chimpanzee? :laugh:
The funniest part about that is that W's face actually resemble's a chimp's. ~D
ICantSpellDawg
05-31-2005, 17:26
If this guys is a moron then what does that make George Bush, a chimpanzee? :laugh:
The funniest part about that is that W's face actually resemble's a chimp's. ~D
very clever
GWB became president
mcain blew his chances (so some think)
that is what the "Moron" reference is to
plus, Bush has a ton of money and is the president
and he won a re-election
he is doing something right
ive always thought that the moron thing was a cover
Proletariat
05-31-2005, 17:32
Gratze.
Byzantine Prince
05-31-2005, 17:42
he is doing something right
ive always thought that the moron thing was a cover
As for doing something right, can't argue there. He's very apealing to people like him, chimp-like low-intelligence bible thumpers.
As for him talking and looking like a moron being a cover, I must object. Look, the man almost flunked Yale! Yale! How dumb do you have to be to almost flunk out something so guaranteed? Oh wait, I almost forgot, Dick Cheney flunked twice.:laugh:
doc_bean
05-31-2005, 17:47
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious
day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last
and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
--- H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
BTW what did McCain do or say in the filibuster debate that ruined his chances ?
Did he read the phone book live on C-Span ?
Proletariat
05-31-2005, 17:47
As for doing something right, can't argue there. He's very apealing to people like him, chimp-like low-intelligence bible thumpers.
As for him talking and looking like a moron being a cover, I must object. Look, the man almost flunked Yale! Yale! How dumb do you have to be to almost flunk out something so guaranteed? Oh wait, I almost forgot, Dick Cheney flunked twice.:laugh:
Yeah, that big cake walk Yale.
:dizzy2:
As for doing something right, can't argue there. He's very apealing to people like him, chimp-like low-intelligence bible thumpers.
As for him talking and looking like a moron being a cover, I must object. Look, the man almost flunked Yale! Yale! How dumb do you have to be to almost flunk out something so guaranteed? Oh wait, I almost forgot, Dick Cheney flunked twice.
Wow- totally off topic as well as offensive. You've outdone yourself. ~:rolleyes:
Gawain of Orkeny
05-31-2005, 18:12
BTW what did McCain do or say in the filibuster debate that ruined his chances ?
Did he read the phone book live on C-Span ?
He sabotaged his own party.
As for doing something right, can't argue there. He's very apealing to people like him, chimp-like low-intelligence bible thumpers.
And you wonder why people call you a Troll.
ook, the man almost flunked Yale! Yale! How dumb do you have to be to almost flunk out something so guaranteed?
First off he didnt almost flunk out. Secondly I doubt that you could ever even make it to Yale nevermind have a chance to flunk out.
This moron also received a Master of Business Administration from Harvard
Business School
Byzantine Prince
05-31-2005, 18:15
That's the thing, once you're in Yale, it's almost impossible to flunk out. Ask anyone who's gone there.
Dick Cheney is so smart he flunked twice. Bush got off with a C-. Some leaders.
Hurin_Rules
05-31-2005, 18:44
Bush got into Yale as a 'legacy' student-- meaning his dad went there so they let him in. Anyone who knows anything about the Ivy League knows that pretty much everyone gets A's. A B is a very bad mark. A C- is almost unheard of. My friend who was working at one of these was so disgusted by it all, and the sense of entitlement the students had, that she quit.
In short: getting C- as a legacy student at Yale is not at all difficult; getting in is the hard part, and if you're daddy went there and/or has a lot of money, that is not very difficult either.
Now, a Harvard MBA is something quite different. The standards there are quite high and it does take some work and intelligence. That carries far more weight with me than an undergrad from Yale.
What I can't understand is how anyone got into Harvard's MBA program with a C- average. That just doesn't make sense.
PanzerJaeger
05-31-2005, 18:47
As for doing something right, can't argue there. He's very apealing to people like him, chimp-like low-intelligence bible thumpers.
As for him talking and looking like a moron being a cover, I must object. Look, the man almost flunked Yale! Yale! How dumb do you have to be to almost flunk out something so guaranteed? Oh wait, I almost forgot, Dick Cheney flunked twice.
Jealousy? You can insult Bush and his supporters all you like, that doesnt change the fact that they are already more successful in life than you will ever be. ~;)
Big_John
05-31-2005, 19:10
hmm, since many conservatives are pissing themselves in anger over this guy.. he can't be all that bad.
hmm, since all the conservatives are pissing themselves in anger over this guy.. he can't be all that bad.
Personally I like McCain - he is more in line with what I think a national leader must be - A moderate and center. I just saw the movie - which I thought was okay, not to much pat on the back.
doc_bean
05-31-2005, 20:12
He sabotaged his own party.
That's a stupid reason, people seem to do that all the time in the US (mostly democrats though, I guess). Clinton would have been impeached if it wasn't for those 10 (iirc) Republican senators.
I find the (almost) lack of party politics one of the best things about the US system.
Why are you blaming McCain for doing something he believes in ?
Aurelian
05-31-2005, 21:05
Short answer, yes, he is being groomed to run for president. At least by himself. He's run before, and there doesn't seem to be any reason that he wouldn't run in 2008.
His big problem is that his persona is probably too moderate to win the Republican nomination.
Also, let's remember that he fathered an illegitimate black baby, and that he's too unstable from his POW experiences to be president. Of course, he didn't REALLY father an illegitimate black baby, and he's not REALLY crazy, but that's the way the radcon smear merchants went after him in 2000... so it's a good bet that we'd see the same charges or worse if he ran again. Maybe in 2008 we'll 'find out' that he had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam, or that he passed nuclear secrets to the Vietnamese. Maybe we'll get to see commercials sponsored by the "Hanoi Hilton Veterans for the Truth". That would be fun.
If McCain did get through the primary process, I think he might have a decent shot at winning the general election. There are enough moderates and moderate Democrats that like him that he might be able to seize the middle. The far right base might not be as pumped as usual, but who would they vote for? Hillary? I don't think so. From a Republican standpoint, at least McCain is pro-life and pro-war. Just think, unlike Bush, he actually could be a uniter, not a divider.
Plus, regardless of what Dobson, Rush, or any of the others are saying, the compromise on the filibuster isn't such a bad thing for the Republicans. Think about it, there were only 10 (?) judicial nominees that didn't get confirmed during Bush's first term. The agreement by Senate moderates ensures that three of those will get through on a second pass. That's an incredibly high success rate for judicial nominees.
It really is a good thing that McCain and the other moderates were willing, in this instance, to look past purely partisan agendas and seek a compromise that keeps Senate rules and traditions intact. The whole purpose of the Senate is to slow down debate, prevent majority tyranny, and give the minority a place to oppose extremist measures. In order to achieve their agenda, the Senate majority leadership was willing to overthrow not only the rule that 60 votes are needed to end debate (the rule that allows filibusters), but to violate the Senate rule that 67 votes are required to change the rules themselves. In order to get around the 67 vote rules change requirment, the Republican leadership was going to argue that they were not 'changing the rules', but were instead setting a new precedent. If that sort of maneuver had succeeded, and the Senate leadership was able to change rules by simply denying that they were doing it, there would be essentially no checks against majority power. That is of particular concern in the current situation where one party holds both houses and the presidency (and has a 'win by any means' mentality).
So, McCain and the others actually did something useful. I'm not terribly thrilled with the man overall because he supported Bush... after being defamed by him in 2000, and after Bush's various nods to torture and extra-legal imprisonment. A man who spent years being tortured by the North Vietnamese should really be more outspoken against his own government employing similar methods. Still, sucking up to your party's leader is expected if you're going to being running for the top job yourself down the road.
Big_John
05-31-2005, 21:13
Personally I like McCaincorrected. ~:)
PanzerJaeger
05-31-2005, 22:03
So, McCain and the others actually did something useful. I'm not terribly thrilled with the man overall because he supported Bush... after being defamed by him in 2000, and after Bush's various nods to torture and extra-legal imprisonment. A man who spent years being tortured by the North Vietnamese should really be more outspoken against his own government employing similar methods. Still, sucking up to your party's leader is expected if you're going to being running for the top job yourself down the road.
Maybe he understands the difference between what the raving leftists are whining about and real torture. :bow:
Also, let's remember that he fathered an illegitimate black baby, and that he's too unstable from his POW experiences to be president. Of course, he didn't REALLY father an illegitimate black baby, and he's not REALLY crazy, but that's the way the radcon smear merchants went after him in 2000... so it's a good bet that we'd see the same charges or worse if he ran again. Maybe in 2008 we'll 'find out' that he had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam, or that he passed nuclear secrets to the Vietnamese. Maybe we'll get to see commercials sponsored by the "Hanoi Hilton Veterans for the Truth". That would be fun.
He doesn't need any right wing Republicans smearing him, when the left-wing like yourself does a rant like this about the man.
If McCain did get through the primary process, I think he might have a decent shot at winning the general election. There are enough moderates and moderate Democrats that like him that he might be able to seize the middle. The far right base might not be as pumped as usual, but who would they vote for? Hillary? I don't think so. From a Republican standpoint, at least McCain is pro-life and pro-war. Just think, unlike Bush, he actually could be a uniter, not a divider.
First decent thing I have ever seen you write about any Republican - so way the venom in the first paragraph.
So, McCain and the others actually did something useful. I'm not terribly thrilled with the man overall because he supported Bush... after being defamed by him in 2000, and after Bush's various nods to torture and extra-legal imprisonment. A man who spent years being tortured by the North Vietnamese should really be more outspoken against his own government employing similar methods. Still, sucking up to your party's leader is expected if you're going to being running for the top job yourself down the road.
Papewaio
06-01-2005, 01:20
Given that alot of the presidential race is determined by media profile... what is Paris Hiltons chance of winning when she turns 40?
Alexander the Pretty Good
06-01-2005, 02:17
Given that alot of the presidential race is determined by media profile... what is Paris Hiltons chance of winning when she turns 40?
It's 35...
~:eek:
Productivity
06-01-2005, 03:26
He doesn't need any right wing Republicans smearing him, when the left-wing like yourself does a rant like this about the man.
First decent thing I have ever seen you write about any Republican - so way the venom in the first paragraph.
I got the impression the venom was directed at the Republican system, and how it uses venom on people, rather than McCain. Sarcastically coming out with everything he expects the republicans to come out with as such.
I got the impression the venom was directed at the Republican system, and how it uses venom on people, rather than McCain. Sarcastically coming out with everything he expects the republicans to come out with as such.
Which makes him just as guilty of doing what he accuses the Republican Party of doing.
like I have stated - if McCain runs I will vote for him, unless a better moderate is also in the race.
Aurelian
06-01-2005, 05:44
Also, let's remember that he fathered an illegitimate black baby, and that he's too unstable from his POW experiences to be president. Of course, he didn't REALLY father an illegitimate black baby, and he's not REALLY crazy, but that's the way the radcon smear merchants went after him in 2000... so it's a good bet that we'd see the same charges or worse if he ran again. Maybe in 2008 we'll 'find out' that he had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam, or that he passed nuclear secrets to the Vietnamese. Maybe we'll get to see commercials sponsored by the "Hanoi Hilton Veterans for the Truth". That would be fun. - QUOTING MYSELF
He doesn't need any right wing Republicans smearing him, when the left-wing like yourself does a rant like this about the man. - QUOTING REDLEG
No, I wasn't smearing McCain. I was simply pointing out that some of the same people involved with the "Swift Boat" attack campaign went after McCain using the 'illegitimate black baby' and 'crazy POW' charges. The charges were vile madeup crap, and I'd fully expect them to come after him with some other vile madeup crap if he ran again. That wing of the party doesn't want McCain to be president, so they'd go after him the same way they went after him in 2000, and Kerry in 2004. By "that would be fun", I meant fun in the same way that a root canal is fun, i.e. not fun.
First decent thing I have ever seen you write about any Republican - so way the venom in the first paragraph.
I also like Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and my grandparents. ~D
Ironside
06-01-2005, 08:09
Maybe he understands the difference between what the raving leftists are whining about and real torture. :bow:
Actually those accusations of torture is comprehensive with what's classified as torture for other countries.
If that isn't torture, then many dictorships havn't performed torture. :dizzy2:
PanzerJaeger
06-01-2005, 14:34
Its easy to level accusations when youve been trained to do it. ~;)
Ironside
06-01-2005, 23:09
Its easy to level accusations when youve been trained to do it. ~;)
Yes, I choosed that word to include everything. That also includes convictions and leaked documents on "convincing" policy, for example. Most of it is on a Abu Ghraib level though.
The IACHR has received allegations of torture and other physical mistreatment of both political and non-political prisoners. Among the methods of torture cited were beatings with fists and rubber hoses, electrical shocks to sensitive parts of the body, simulated executions, and sexual abuse in the case of female prisoners.
. . . "blows with a rubber hose; first blows to stomach and chest,"
. . . "long questioning under strong lights without sleep,"
. . . "electric shocks to the vital parts of the body, the ears, genital organs and the anus" that made him feel his insides were bursting,
. . . "hanging by the wrists and acted out executions with blank cartridges" so that each time he did not know whether he was alive or dead.
Sound familiar? ~;)
Although I haven't red anything about faked executions in any US case (but I havn't studied very careful either).
REPORT ON THE SITUATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS IN PANAMA, from 1978 (http://www.cidh.oas.org/countryrep/Panama78eng/chap.2.htm)
Unlike the mass detentions followed by beatings and other mistreatment intended to intimidate and punish, but stopping short of killing, a considerable number of individuals have been arrested and subjected to more systematic forms of torture in the offices of the Defense Forces Intelligence–G-2–and in those of the security forces as DENI (National Investigations Department). The Commission has accounts of the use of electric shock on various parts of the body, including the genitals, of people hung by their wrists, the use of masks, the removal of all their clothing, prolonged sleep deprivation, being kept in handcuffs or bound for long periods of time, cold showers in cold rooms, and solitary confinement.
Another example of arbitrary arrest is the case of Alberto Conte, who was held for 94 days without trial or charges and denied his right of defense. Finally, after he declared voluntary departure, Mr. Conte was deported.3
These ones is from 1989, when Noriega was ruling...
REPORT ON THE SITUATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS IN PANAMA 1989 (http://www.cidh.oas.org/countryrep/Panama89eng/TOC.htm)
PanzerJaeger
06-01-2005, 23:20
Unsubstantiated, unproven, allegations.
The only proof I have seen comes via Abu Garib, and I wouldnt consider 99% of that stuff torture.. more like an interrogative hazing. But nonetheless, those people have or are being punished.
If I had an axe to grind against you I could sit here and claim you kicked my dog. If I had been trained what to say beforehand, im sure i could provide some pretty graphic and convincing details of the bruising and loss of hair you caused my dog. That doesnt make it so. :bow:
Ironside
06-01-2005, 23:50
more like an interrogative hazing
AFAIK some people died of this "hazing"...
And congratulations of proving my point better than what I could ever do. ~;)
The only proof I have seen comes via Abu Garib, and I wouldnt consider 99% of that stuff torture.. more like an interrogative hazing.
Actually those accusations of torture is comprehensive with what's classified as torture for other countries.
If that isn't torture, then many dictorships havn't performed torture.
those people have or are being punished.
Yes luckily does the US military atleast try to uphold a democratic (=high) standard when it comes to HR.
If I had an axe to grind against you I could sit here and claim you kicked my dog. If I had been trained what to say beforehand, im sure i could provide some pretty graphic and convincing details of the bruising and loss of hair you caused my dog. That doesnt make it so.
That's why you investigate those charges. To see if they stick.
I hear that McCain "had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam"
McCain is his own refutation. He will never make it through the Primary Process even with the open field for 2008.
Kralizec
03-08-2008, 01:39
Interesting...thanks Lemur.
btw, if it came between Obama and McCain, who'd you vote for?
Sasaki Kojiro
03-08-2008, 01:46
I hear that McCain "had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam"
McCain is his own refutation. He will never make it through the Primary Process even with the open field for 2008.
Funny ~D
woad&fangs
03-08-2008, 03:16
Congrats to Redleg the Sage.
I think it is hilarious the Republicans have selected a nominee that JAG apparently likes. McCarthy must be rolling in his grave.
btw, if it came between Obama and McCain, who'd you vote for?
Man, I'd be torn. Ask me again in November. Right now I'm feeling pretty good -- of the three remaining contenders, only one makes me break out in hives. So long as she isn't in the final mix, I'm gonna be happy.
Tribesman
03-08-2008, 04:34
He doesn't need any right wing Republicans smearing him, when the left-wing like yourself does a rant like this about the man.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
A classic Redleg once again , I knew you hadn't lost the lost it touch:2thumbsup:
Anyway McCain may be too old , but at least he isn't Clinton , she is a lunatic .
Thread necromancy!Must be nice to be able to search the backroom. I've often wanted to be able to dredge up people's past comments.... :shame:
The most horriffic thing I could imagine would be a race between him and Hillary.... I think I'd have no choice that I could live with other than voting 3rd party.How prophetic. Clearly the words of a wise man. I'd also like to pat myself on the back for 3yrs of consistent disdain for McCain. :beam:
Senators have a track record of making bad presidential candidates. What did we do to end up with 3 of them as our only choices? :wall:
Must be nice to be able to search the backroom. I've often wanted to be able to dredge up people's past comments....
I was just reading some of the oldest threads still cached, seeing what we were yammering about in 2005. If you're unclear on how to do this, just check the bottom of the Backroom screen, where you can choose what age of threads to display. If that's too vague, just PM me, and I'll walk you through it.
That was on the last page? Huh, well that was propitious....
Second or third from last, if I remember correctly. I was poking around, seeing if there was anything at all that could be related to what's going on now. I was in the mood for necromancy ... but aren't we all?
Second or third from last, if I remember correctly. I was poking around, seeing if there was anything at all that could be related to what's going on now. I was in the mood for necromancy ... but aren't we all?
Yes.
https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7123/necromancyiy6.jpg
Carry on then. :bow:
Nice job, Redleg.
I was about to say this belongs in the convention thread, but i realized it's from about 3 years ago. 3 years ago... wow, quite a long time ago.
One thing becomes obvious when you click through 2005 -- we went completely poll crazy for a while. Pages and pages of polls ...
For some reason I believe that the backroom was more active back then, but by comparing the 'last post' dates I am not so certain anylonger..
Woah, thought I hadn't seen this before, clicked to open the first post and then thought BP was back etc until I looked at the post dates somewhere on page 2. :dizzy2:
I guess by now we all hope that Obama and Huckabee win, right? :sweatdrop:
Vladimir
03-08-2008, 23:37
You don't groom a 71 year old for anything. You buy them a toupee.
Interesting post by me all that time ago - blimey 2005!!! ;) - and I guess what I said still holds true, though the more you find out about the guy and the changing political problems of the present, the less it rings true.
Back then it was looking at radical right wing Presidents - or at least Presidential nominees, from the Republicans - or looking at something less radical in the form of McCain, and in a contest between Bush and McCain, I know who I would vote for. But in the present political context, with Iraq so important and with the possibility of the social situation in the States as well as the general political direction, moving to the left - I don't think I would contemplate voting McCain for more than a few seconds. Though after all it is all irrelevant as I can't and probably never will, have the opportunity to vote in the US Presidential election! :clown:
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