View Full Version : ZHAN GUO Mod, Warring States in China
sephodwyrm
05-31-2005, 08:38
CHF and PILLAR MODDING TEAM proudly announces:
ZHAN GUO TOTAL WAR
https://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3305/logo6bt.jpg
http://img247.echo.cx/img247/5395/cavalrybreaksthroughinfantryun.jpg
The year is 480 BC.
The feudal Zhou dynasty has lasted for nearly 6 centuries, and it groans under the weight of the years.
The feudal order of the Etiquettes are collapsing on all fronts. The great sage Confucius nears the end of his life, lamenting the corruption of social order, where the lord is no longer a lord, a servant no longer a servant, where son slays father, and father does not spare his son.
The once great state of Jin is but a mere shadow of its former self. Her great houses of Zhao, Wei, Han, Zhi, Fan and Zhong Hang， plot and war against each other. The house of Tian now has complete control over the governance of Qi, and the 3 Huan of Lu monopolizes state politics. The age of dukes and barons are over. A new age of kings is approaching.
To the south, the native people of Wu and Yue have molded their states into powerful kingdoms after the great states of the Central Plains. The king of Wu, Fu Chai, leads an invincible army to contest the title of Supreme Lord, trained under the legendary Sun Wu himself. The Yue under king Gou Jian acts as a vassal, but secretly plots to destroy their master.
The warfare will not end. It has not ended since it started in 770 BC when the Son of Heaven was slain at Li Mountain.
Only 1 state will call for an end to this unending strife, and the only way is war.
This is Warring States, Total War.
Zhan Guo MOD is a project done by Rome TW enthusiasts and is led by drackla and the pillar team. Many members also participated in the Great Qin Empire mod. This mod will have a historically accurate Chinese map and 14 playable factions (which might be subject to change).
PILLAR MOD LEADER
- Drackla 德拉克拉
CHF leader of the MOD
- General Zhaoyun, founder and admin
- Sephodwyrm, English language spokesman, Concept Artist, Historian, Translator
15% of the units are done.
General layout and outline of maps are done.
Basic concept arts for major Chinese states are done. Moving on to expanded series.
VISIT our HEADQUARTERS
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3996
CHF HEADQUARTERS
http://game.ali213.net/showthread.php?thre...30&pagenumber=2 (http://game.ali213.net/showthread.php?threadid=342523&perpage=30&pagenumber=2)
YOUXIA HEADQUARTERS
I entertain all questions about this era of Chinese History on CHF or here. I check this thread less often though.... ;)
sephodwyrm
05-31-2005, 08:39
http://img205.echo.cx/img205/807/rometw20050524232412206xb.jpg
http://img205.echo.cx/img205/7498/rometw20050524232436648dh.jpg
http://img205.echo.cx/img205/9413/rometw20050524232608710os.jpg
http://img205.echo.cx/img205/4291/rometw20050524234136068nu.jpg
http://img205.echo.cx/img205/9568/rometw20050524235208210ea.jpg
SCREENSHOTS
sephodwyrm
05-31-2005, 08:40
http://img128.echo.cx/img128/125/0036ck.jpg
http://img201.echo.cx/img201/6121/001small3la.jpg
http://img285.echo.cx/img285/9268/0047sk.jpg
http://img285.echo.cx/img285/3715/0054js.jpg
CONCEPT ARTS
Spartacus
05-31-2005, 18:23
Very nice looking units. Great skinning also can't wait for the campaign map screenies aswell as this mod looks promising.
Sundjata Keita
05-31-2005, 19:35
Very good concept art you have there, the units also look very good although I suggest changing the face slightly so it looks less generic. Good luck with it.
Tulius Hostilius
05-31-2005, 22:37
Wonderful! I really new idea!
And the concept art looks promising…
shifty157
05-31-2005, 23:12
impressive. keep us updated. id like to see where this goes.
sephodwyrm
06-01-2005, 01:46
Thanks guys. I'll provide a few details to this MOD.
Well, basically, after playing RTW, a bunch of college kids and young office workers decided to get together and make a MOD that will provide:
1. a solid entertaining experience
2. an opportunity to provide an immersion in the period that gave birth to many things that people would recognize as Chinese right now
3. a historically accurate representation of the period (limited by the engine) and hence a history lesson
These are basically what I think Shogun TW has done extremely successfully.
~:cheers: So we settled the time period to start from 480 BC. The introduction provided in the first post explains the situation pretty well. The Zhou dynasty has been around for 6 centuries. Yes, and the dynasty is basically SCREWED. I can delve into history lectures another day. We have to get to the main point.
:charge: There are numerous feudal lords at this time. Apart from a few non-Huaxia (Huaxia was the people that we would consider the Central Plains Chinese) kingdoms, the feudal lords have various titles and holdings. You play as one of them and hopefully change the situation.
~:) So there, a very basic introduction. We are planning
- at least 14 Houses
- possibly some non-standard factions (Qiang, Xiongnu, Baiyue etc)
- at 1 unique unit per House
- Chinese...and not accented English (as in RTW). I always played Shogun TW in Japanese because it gives atmosphere
- Yeah, talking about atmosphere. Our own music (hopefully)
- Unique building sets, tech trees, ships
These are pretty standard I guess. I'd be heading the translation department once the Mod is done since we're doing all the work in Chinese.
Btw, thanks very much for the enthusiasm and suggestions. I will be talking to the 3D team about generic faces.
IrishMike
06-01-2005, 02:35
Looks like a great mod. Are u planning to include a senate type faction, or wait to the realease of the x-pack where you don't have to have a senate type faction.
sephodwyrm
06-01-2005, 03:26
From friend Coldknight:
Looks like a great mod. Are u planning to include a senate type faction, or wait to the realease of the x-pack where you don't have to have a senate type faction.
~:) Well, there'll be a senate type faction...in fact, if we go for history authenticity there'll be a rather complex relations.
The biggest state of China at that time is the the dukedom of Jin. Jin herself has to answer to what remains of the central authority of Zhou dynasty. Within Jin, however, it is divided into 6 great houses. So we have these 6 houses answering to the duke of Jin who in turns answers to the Son of Heaven (the Zhou dynasty) with a bunch of other dukes.
Not sure how we are going to implement that though. However, Jin would fracture into 3 states of Han, Zhao and Wei before 400 BC. The game starts in 480 BC, so you have about 80 years to make or break the state either as the Duke or as a Chief of a major House.
Samurai Waki
06-01-2005, 04:00
sounds interesting, did RotK mod die out?
sephodwyrm
06-01-2005, 04:13
I don't really know about the RotK Mod. You got any links?
~:cheers: hihi , here is waitcu from china , i am a teammate of the pillar mod team , nice to meet everybody here . if you want to provide some help to us and give us some sponsor, please contact me , foxadams@21cn.com or waitcu@hotmail.com :charge:
Monkwarrior
06-01-2005, 08:13
Good luck with the mod, mates. ~:cheers:
Keeping it in Chinese would make the whole mod kind of a niche product. It looks to me as though you all are doing a good job, but I won't play it if I don't know what my messages say.
sephodwyrm
06-01-2005, 19:32
Well, if you played Shogun TW, that's is what we meant. We want the events, unit orders, music and sound etc to be authentically Chinese.
As for user texts etc, the translation department (me included) will make sure that everything is provided in clear and correct English. ~:cheers:
So, chances are that the game would be approachable for any English using gamers here. I personally would be using the English mode because my computer can't read Chinese...(I just see question marks all day).
If my English ability is in question, feel free to pelt me with questions about the mod. I'll answer them to the best of my abilities in English... ~D
Well, if you played Shogun TW, that's is what we meant. We want the events, unit orders, music and sound etc to be authentically Chinese.
As for user texts etc, the translation department (me included) will make sure that everything is provided in clear and correct English. ~:cheers:
So, chances are that the game would be approachable for any English using gamers here. I personally would be using the English mode because my computer can't read Chinese...(I just see question marks all day).
If my English ability is in question, feel free to pelt me with questions about the mod. I'll answer them to the best of my abilities in English... ~D
I loved Shogun and I understand your concerns surrounding atmosphere. Shogun felt better to play than the others do..
Alright, then, you have my full support.
sephodwyrm the units look great I like how you done to the cavalry with those spear. They should be accurate, also the spearmen should be having those kind of spear IMO because that is what they use in those day. The peasant could be change to have a little more variety of unit in it, for example have them carry different weapon since they are make up of citizen so not all of them have the same weapon type. The swordman armour look like those of legionary though, so it will be much more accurate if they wearing the same type of armour from the cavalry. Overall I look forward to the release of this mod, does it also work with the client kingdom mod? Or I have to install the freshly vanilla in order to play? :bow: ~:cheers:
sephodwyrm
06-02-2005, 01:15
From friend vale
sephodwyrm the units look great I like how you done to the cavalry with those spear. They should be accurate, also the spearmen should be having those kind of spear IMO because that is what they use in those day. The peasant could be change to have a little more variety of unit in it, for example have them carry different weapon since they are make up of citizen so not all of them have the same weapon type. The swordman armour look like those of legionary though, so it will be much more accurate if they wearing the same type of armour from the cavalry. Overall I look forward to the release of this mod, does it also work with the client kingdom mod? Or I have to install the freshly vanilla in order to play?
I agree. I almost got into an argument with the team when they decided to give peasant soldiers ploughs. They should be wielding short spears. Only rebel peasants who don't have access to weapons use ploughs.
The swordman armor is actually accurate (or as accurate as I can make them)...I designed them after the terracotta army heavy infantries. The cavalry units wear light armor, but there was a stone armor and helmet that was unearthed nearby the Terracotta Army pits that point to heavy armor as well.
I personally think the biggest eye candies would be the 4 horse chariots. ~;)
we will find the all the history information and show you a completely Chinese civilization before you . not just so 3d models . :charge:
Sephodwyrm, I have seen some of the early version of your work in chf it was pretty impressive. Anyway think you can upload the units so I can try them out with my julii faction? I will be producing only those units. Oh when your mod is complete it will going to be awsome, and the pict post by hansioux is really impressive.
yes i must say nice units ~;)
sephodwyrm
06-05-2005, 08:30
Hansioux has a picture post?
Well, I have a new image to share.
http://img206.echo.cx/img206/6215/fallofchugeneralsmall9nt.jpg
sephodwyrm
06-05-2005, 19:21
Good news today.
My sloppy works have attracted a great deal of attention from the true masters. We are now trying our best to make them participate in our MOD.
Expect improvments if we're successful.
If we're not, expect slightly better works. I am trying hard to improve.
WORK OF TRUE MASTER
http://game.ali213.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=4035811
This also called three kingdom so why don't you guys team up with the China: Total War - Three Kingdoms
BassV2
they just have a different name and also their project is dying as well. :*(
hey guy , this is a complete different form mod three kingdoms,
the three kingdoms's period is A.D 220-A.D 280 , why the three kingdoms is dying .because the mod team didn't know how to creat a new china's map ,and not this team is disband . and now ,this technology is broke through.and the work is continue by a man just a man in charge . our team is helping him to contiune it .
ZHAN GUO Mod, it use china's map , china's nations , china's real history (B.C 475─B.C 221), china's classical music etc . so i tell you this is a new game of total war not just a mod game .so please make clear the china's history
here is a web you can find the period out .
http://www.coinculture.com/Images/history/10s.htm
and we won't give up the work of this mod , it's won't die in any way i promises you .
ZHAN GUO Mod, Warring States in China will show you the greatest civilization at the time in the world.
here i post the map , don't make any rumour guy :furious3:
http://img296.echo.cx/img296/6899/4cf4144c8f4f64771f38bd28b67374.gif (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img296.echo.cx/img296/511/mapclimates2tl.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img296.echo.cx/img296/6691/maproughness6if.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img296.echo.cx/img296/5676/mapgroundtypes5ju.th.jpg (http://img296.echo.cx/my.php?image=mapgroundtypes5ju.jpg)
http://img210.echo.cx/img210/2340/6a75de79861142b483ea173b33c5c3.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img210.echo.cx/img210/3493/9b17fe9d092a4ddbb0f806c9a0efb8.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img210.echo.cx/img210/915/320c7d388e5d417a95ea6d7e3b3d43.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img210.echo.cx/img210/5978/85427e51203d48dabad33e5870c081.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img210.echo.cx/img210/6091/d5b61c6cc3d14cda9a1b9ca8b0a6de.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img210.echo.cx/img210/4055/pic10596268759961zh.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
shifty157
06-07-2005, 04:21
Thats some very impressive work. Awesome job.
Are you sure the ladder thing can be used though? And wont the catapult need a new skeleton?
What did china have in the way of explosives by this time period?
Keep up the incredible work.
http://img97.echo.cx/img97/9086/53wt.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img97.echo.cx/img97/8796/mapregions1ii.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
do you know the china's civilization at the time ? if you want to get some information please to
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com
in fact china have many incredible things at the time ~:cheers:
swordolf
06-07-2005, 05:17
http://bbs.netshowbbs.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=341714 ~D
http://bbs.netshowbbs.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=370737 :book:
sephodwyrm
06-07-2005, 05:23
Thats some very impressive work. Awesome job.
Are you sure the ladder thing can be used though? And wont the catapult need a new skeleton?
What did china have in the way of explosives by this time period?
Keep up the incredible work.
For the ladder, it was said to be the work of the legendary craftsman Gongshu Ban. The ladder cart is a combination of mobility, cover, and ladder and allows elite troops to quickly ascend walls quickly.
The catapult is designed to be such so that it could switch directions quickly without the need of adjusting the whole engine.
As for the way of explosives, I don't think the entire world came up with explosives at that time. Pots of burning oil is probably the closest thing to it. We do have defensive incendiaries including molten copper and iron (we call them metallic water) as well as boiling wax and oil (pretty standard). We also covered logs with oil soaked hay and set them alight and rolled them down siege ladders to dissuade attackers.
shifty157
06-07-2005, 05:53
For the ladder, it was said to be the work of the legendary craftsman Gongshu Ban. The ladder cart is a combination of mobility, cover, and ladder and allows elite troops to quickly ascend walls quickly.
Thats very interesting. But what i meant was can the ladder be used in the game? i dont know very much about modding but i dont think its possible. i may be wrong though.
Offtopic but when was the mongol invasion of china?
it can be use , we are making it let it come true
sephodwyrm
06-07-2005, 07:32
The Mongol Invasion of China takes place more than a millenia after this (around 1276-1279 AD). It took the Mongols several campaigns and the death of a Khan to accomplish this. However, this has little (next to nothing) to do with the MOD.
In any case, during the period of Warring States, the Xiong Nu rose as the most powerful northern nomadic tribe as the tribes of Di were defeated one by one by the state of Jin. The Xiong Nu would periodically launch incursions into the Central Plains and became a serious menace by the height of the Warring States. The state of Zhao had a famous general Li Mu that defeated a huge Xiong Nu invasion force. After the unification, the emperor Shi Huangdi sent general Meng Tian with an expeditionary force of 300000 and defeated the Xiong Nu in a decisive battle, forcing them to retreat for 300 km up north. The newly unified China thus reclaimed the Loop Region of the Yellow River.
Meng Tian would maintain garrison there and increase the fortifications already there. This would be known as the great wall project initiated by the First Emperor. His task was mainly to join together the walls that were already built by the states of Yan and Zhao. Contrary to popular belief, the Great Wall is not the border of China and the Xiong Nu. In fact, it was built within Chinese territory. The Great Wall does, however, represent the first line of defense.
Samurai Waki
06-07-2005, 09:04
Wow. Map is looking really good. This will definantly be a top priority download when it becomes available. I love this era in Chinese History.
Yeah china do have many bloody war over it course history, the three kingdom is not really the bloodiest but to me it consider one. Anyway the mod is look really awsome and I can't wait to get it once it out, oh the Qin is really one of my favorite state though. However, during this period it really just a lot of disunity and every city is kinda ruled by some faction or house though. The ladder is going to work like a fire truck right? cause when it arrive near the wall the ladder should be able to extent like the one in the chf showed. ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
here post another pic
http://img212.echo.cx/img212/8413/12rn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img212.echo.cx/img212/8168/door8to.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
here i want to find some help with the file *.BPI
we find that this file is control the behavior of soldier attack the city ,like capture the wall , attack the door etc, but we don't know how to edit these file . could somebody tell me ? because it relate to our work of the screenshot up there .
Just a quick suggestion - you may want to consider having the Chinese displayed in Pinyin. It could be a useful bridge between Chinese-only speakers and English-only speakers. It is certainly helping me to learn Chinese.
Even if you don't, if you provide English translations, for many things I would suggest transliteration rather than full translation; transliteration to Pinyin gives a romance language speaker a chance to pronounce the words.
I can't help with translation, my Mandarin is horrible, but I can help you with transliteration, if you are interested.
well thank you for your suggestion . i think , we will provide a game two langues both chinese and english , the city will display in pinyin and china's character . i think that's a easy work to do , but if you can help us to create the soldiers models it would be useful ~D ,what's more could you help us to enlarge the map ?? i have ever use your team's tool , but not complete understand the function :) :charge:
if so please contact me
foxadams@21cn.com or waitcu@hotmail.com
shifty157
06-07-2005, 23:18
Those walls are VERY impressive. This mod is VERY impressive.
When you say "your team's tool," are you referring to MrHide's TiME? The map editor? I'm really a newbie when it comes to map editting, I just play around with TiME. I do the code integration for Europa Barbarorum. I would be happy to help however I can, though.
sephodwyrm
06-08-2005, 03:12
Just a quick suggestion - you may want to consider having the Chinese displayed in Pinyin. It could be a useful bridge between Chinese-only speakers and English-only speakers. It is certainly helping me to learn Chinese.
Even if you don't, if you provide English translations, for many things I would suggest transliteration rather than full translation; transliteration to Pinyin gives a romance language speaker a chance to pronounce the words.
I can't help with translation, my Mandarin is horrible, but I can help you with transliteration, if you are interested.
Don't worry about it. Everyone in China knows HYPY. In the mainland, the whole pronounciation system was romanized several decades ago.
I would be leading the translation department. I would ensure that everything is understandable. ~:cheers:
Wow, this is looking really good, guys. Keep it up.
yes that's the tool , could your team can help us to create models and enlarge the map ???? if so , i will sent you the soldiers' script pictures to you .
you know , many code files we should finish by ourself at the same time when making the mod :)
btw, do you have RTW 1.2 unedit files at \Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data\text ? if you have please make a pack and sent it to me .
foxadams@21cn.com
i have a rtw mod like realism mod need to translate in english . and release later . we got a big success in this mod in china :) here i sent some works to show you .
http://img293.echo.cx/img293/2803/soldiers4po.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
hey everybody here i post a link , it's a rome movie make by our teamate . enjoy it
http://www.cgmv.net/movie/playWMV.asp?id=107
Hey I can't get the video does it work with some kind of special internet stuff? :help:
.
here is another downlorad link , try it
http://219.239.217.133/down/luxiang/yhdgse.rmvb
oh , it's a link from china . i will try to sent to a taiwan's friend, and use their server to be a download add.
That picture of all those models is from a mod in chinese?? Those models look nice!!! So it's like the Rome Total Realism Mod ???? More info! more screenshots! Release for english readers, speakers!!
so is this zhan gou going to work the vanilla 1.1 or do I have to patch the second 1.2? I got the cheat enable in my rome total war. so I won't be able to use it if it only work with 1.2 ~D
yes , this models all done by chinese , and the systems like zor system has been researched by ourself, what's more you can built all temples in one city . there are many amusing elements in this mod , i can't say it's better than realism , but it won't worse than it :)
cheat?hahahha,our mod is base 1.2 , actually 1.2 can use the cheat for no limit , just edit a file.if you want to do this my mod will done it .
in fact we release this mod want to get some sponsor for our zhanguo mod's developmaent . we got about 20 mens to develop this mod ,if we get nothing to encourage my teammates , i think they will disband .so that's i don't want to see . also do you .
hey guy , i will make a new fourm in here later , and post all the screenshot , what this mod's content . please wait . this mod will soon release , and become another top download like realism . btw , do you think the rtw's fans will give us some sponsor ?
hey guy , i will make a new fourm in here later , and post all the screenshot , what this mod's content . please wait . this mod will soon release , and become another top download like realism . btw , do you think the rtw's fans will give us some sponsor ?
i mean the mod up there is the mod like realism not zhanguo mod ~:eek:
sephodwyrm
06-08-2005, 16:49
Alright, the PILLAR team is responsible for 2 mods.
The PILLAR MOD (the one with expanded Rome TW units, etc) which is pretty much done...
and the forthcoming ZHAN GUO mod.
If you are an expert in 3d Studio or PS please contact us. :help:
swordolf
06-09-2005, 05:07
good
beauchamp21
06-09-2005, 14:11
:jawdrop:
AWSOME!!!!!
Im so glad im not a modder, that looks like it took forever!!!
machine working in game enjoy it :)
[url]http://img107.echo.cx/img107/9394/2af926f30bdf4588835f944270f05a.jpg[url]
NagatsukaShumi
06-12-2005, 17:26
All looking very promising, I love the concept art btw lads.
Top job
keep this up man, think you are doing fine and a bright promise future for this game :)
sephodwyrm
06-13-2005, 05:30
Why aren't you guys pelting questions yet??
I remembered years ago before MTW came out I was arguing the case for Zhan Guo TW in the Off Topic section. People got really cross about the idea....XP
Samurai Waki
06-13-2005, 08:05
Perhaps then was not the time. :bow:
Perhap it will be nice if you guys can show us more of those picture, like a battle betweens the two factions will be good :duel:
http://img1.echo.cx/img1/7845/clipboard52vr.jpg
NagatsukaShumi
06-13-2005, 14:04
Questions aye.....
What are you modelling this modification on? The actual historical events of the "Three Kingoms" or are you using the Romance of the Three Kingdoms as your reference?
How much variety between the units of each faction can we expect? Rather than the STW style of all factions have same units etc?
Any famous generals?
shifty157
06-13-2005, 16:31
The mod isnt in the same time period as threekingdoms.
Actually, if im correct i think its in the same time period as the movie 'Hero'.
no, actually I believe this time period happen after the qin dynasty broken down.
sephodwyrm
06-13-2005, 17:51
OK. Finally some questions I can answer and some assumptions I can correct.
Questions aye.....
Aight.
What are you modelling this modification on? The actual historical events of the "Three Kingoms" or are you using the Romance of the Three Kingdoms as your reference?
Romance of the 3 Kingdoms takes place a full 6 centuries after this MOD. To give you a good understanding:
Eastern Zhou dynasty (770-256 BC, vanquished by the state of Qin)
Qin dynasty (221-206 BC, vanquished by peasant leader Liu Bang)
Han dynasty, established 202 BC, by peasant leader Liu Bang
Three Kingdoms usually starts in 180 AD when the Yellow Turbans rose against the government.
Zhan Guo MOD starts at 480 BC.
How much variety between the units of each faction can we expect? Rather than the STW style of all factions have same units etc?
Well, its going to be a mix of STW and MTW style. According to our historical knowledge of the era, we have divided China into 4 main cultural spheres (going deeper we actually have 7 small cultural spheres). Each of the 4 cultural sphere would have a unique unit, and we also try to give each state a unique unit as well.
Any famous generals?
You asked for it. :book: :book:
1. Sun Wu. OK, this guy has already became a hermit again. However, his legacy still remained in the troops he had trained for the state of Wu. Due to his extreme fame, people also call him Sun Zi (and this would resonate for millenia to come) :charge:
2. Wu Qi. This is a person that is portrayed as the most unemotional and unfeeling person throughout the Central Plains. When the duke doubted him for having a wife from another state, it is said that he killed his wife and took her head to the duke. He's not only a great general (defeating the state of Qi leading the armies for the pathetic state of Lu), he also went to Wei and helped seize the He Xi territories from Qin. He then left for Chu and reformed the entire state. However, when the King of Chu (who trusted him) died, his enemies at the Chu court raised an army and attacked him. He died under a shower of arrows.
Wu Qi also had a legacy and hence he is also called Wu Zi. Like Sun Zi he also had an art of war dedicated to him.
3. Sun Bing. Also had an Art of War and is said to be the descendant of Sun Wu. He defeated the Wei army led by Pang Juan and paved the way to Qi supremacy in the East (the other contender would be Qin in the west). He is named such because he was framed for treason while he is in the state of Wei by his ex-classmate Pang Juan and had his knee-caps removed (the Bing punishment)
Like his ancestor he also wrote an Art of War and probably expanded the original works.
4. Le Yang. Great general of Wei who helped to overpower the foreign Di state of Zhong SHan (the Zhong Shan state is composed of the Di people who sinicized themselves). History goes that the Zhong Shan captured his son and threatened to boil him alive in a huge couldron. Le Yang was not stirred but ordered the Wei army to assault, capturing the Zhong Shan fortress but losing his son in the process.
5. Le Yi. Descendant of Le Yang. Like many generals of his time, he is also not only a military leader but a great politician. He helped the state of Yan under King Zhao to reach a great power and led a 5 state alliance against Qi, annihilating the Qi army, capturing the capital and started to besiege the only 2 remaining fortresses at Ju and Ji Mo. However, court suspicions and distrust from the new King of Yan forced him to flee for his life.
6. Tian Dan. One of the Qi defenders that held out at Ji Mo when the Yan seized almost the entirety of Qi. When he heard that Le Yi has fled from the Yan army and a new replacement named Qi Jie arrived, he started a series of strategem to stir up the emotions of the people of Ji Mo. Using a night assault of 5000 warriors dressed in vivic colors and war-paint, as well as armored bulls covered with spears and knifes and set on fire (causing them to charge against the Yan army which panicked), he routed the Yan army and proceeded to liberate the entirety of Qi.
7. Bai Qi. Perhaps the generals with highest bodycount in Chinese history. He started off in the Qin army as a footsoldier and worked his way up (thanks to the new merit system introduced by Shang Yang). Bai Qi was recognized for his efficiency, brutality and no defeats in his record and promoted to be a general. He defeated a Han-Wei alliance with only 80000, capturing the princes that led them and seizing 240000 heads. He was thus promoted to the State's Marshal as well as the Great Fine Builder of Qin (Da Liang Zao). He would attack Chu 3 times, the first time seizing the Chu second-capital by directing the river waters to flood the fortress, the second time he seized the Chu capital and the 3rd time he occupied the ancestral tombs and great Temples of Chu and destroyed them. The areas occupied were made into provinces under Qin jurisidction. Bai Qi would have many other campaigns, but his greatest campaign would be the Campaign at Chang Ping in which he trapped the Zhao army of 400000 men. After 46 days without food, the Zhao army surrendered. Bai Qi then ordered them give up their arms in exchange for food and wine. In the night he told every Qin soldier to wear a white turban and kill everyone in the Zhao camp. Generals Meng Ao and Wang Jian led the cavalry patrols to make sure no one escaped. If anyone has reached the legendary status, it is the Marquis Wu An of Qin (Bai Qi's highest title in his career).
8. Lian Bo. The Zhao general that was famous for his stubborness to acknowledge that he's old. However, his initial defensive strategem at Chang Ping made the Qin army ran out of ideas and they couldn't advance. Qin General Wang Jian knew that the men were losing heart and quickly appealed to the king of Qin for solutions. The resulting strategem was replacing Lian Bo has general of Zhao using rumors and bribery.
9. Wang Jian. The generals of Qin mostly started their careers as the rank and file soldier. Wang Jian is also one of them. He would continue to campaign until his old age, destroying Chu with 600000 men under the reign of King Ying Zheng of Qin.
10. Wang Ben. The son of Wang Jian and destroyer of Wei. The fortress of Da Liang stood strong before him, and like Bai Qi, he directed river waters to flood the entire fortress.
Shogun_01
06-14-2005, 02:59
great map. most likely the best mod in developement. really looking foward to this
yep, their map is impressive can't wait till it come out though :)
~:cheers:
~:) :bow:
Looking forward to this!!!!!!!!!!
swordolf
06-14-2005, 13:37
Igo(weiqi) Game was also came into being from wars between states in Chunqiu & Zhanguo Age. Weiqi is base on Great stratagem ,but Chess and chinese xiangqi(china chess) is base on tactics.
:duel:
swordolf
06-14-2005, 13:42
Western Zhou 西周 (11th cent.- 770 BC)
Eastern Zhou 東周 (770-221 BC):
---Spring and Autumn Period 春秋時代 (770-475 BC)
---Warring States Period 戰國時代 (475-221 BC)
The Zhou Dynasty is probably the dynasty that reigned for the longest period not only of all Chinese dynasties, but of the whole world. Of course, such a long period contributed to a certain image of the Zhou rulers and their institutions as the guideline for all later people. The founders of the Zhou Dynasty, the Kings Wen and Wu (abbreviated to the couple Wen Wu 文武), and the Prince Regent Duke Dan of Zhou 周公旦, were seen as the ideal monarchs and even as patrons and inventors of every kind of arts. The Confucianists venerated these rulers as guided by morality, humanity and righteousness.
But 900 years of history were also times of profound changes that took place. The first kings of Zhou enfeoffed their fellowship and relatives with large domains that later developed to kingdoms themselves: the central government lost its authority, the "feudal system" (fengjian zhidu 封建制度) similar to the Western Middle Age system of enfeoffment disintegrated. The once venerated kings of Zhou, people like King Cheng 成王 and Kang 康王, lost their central position as the Heaven-approved sacrosanct ruler and were challenged by feudal lords that overtook the leadership of the Chinese world.
The Zhou kings had to flee from their western capital to the east, forced by "barbarian" tribes that invaded the Zhou territory. This was the begin of Eastern Zhou period. It is divided into the Spring and Autumn period, called following the seasonal recordings of the annals, and the Warring States period when the six most powerful kings fought against each other. Only the state of Qin was to defeat her enemies.
The Zhou time was also the time of the hundred schools of philosophers and thinkers. The important Confucian classical writings find their beginnings also in this historical epoch.
What happened in the rest of the world?
Greece: Sparta dominates the Peloponnesian Peninsula. Palestine: Israelian kings David, Solomon around 1000 BC. Empires of Urartu, Phrygia and Lydia in Minor Asia. Neo-Assyrian kingdom. New Egyptian dynasties, attacks of the "Sea Peoples". The Iron Age replaces the Bronze Age. Etruscian kingdoms in Italy. India: Late Vedic time of the Aryan people.
Greek town states; colonisation of the Black Sea region and of southern Italy. Literature (Homeros' epics and poems, Hesiodos' tales) and philosophy (pre-Socratian nature philosophers); development of written law and constitution, Draconian law 624 BC, Athenian democracy: Kleisthenes. Foundation of Rome 753, period of Roman kings. Kingdoms of Israel and Juda, destruction of Jerusalem 578 BC by Babylon (king Nebukadnezzar). Persian king Kyros conquers Minor Asia and the Near East.
Highlight of Greek culture: dramatists (Sophocles, Aischylos, Aristophanes), philosophers (Socrates, Platon, Aristoteles), historians (Thukydides); Athenian democracy: Perikles; Peloponnesian War. Alexander the Great conquers Minor Asia, Persia, Egypt 333 BC; division of his empire among generals. Rome becomes master of Italy, adoption of republic state form. Wars with Carthago, Hannibal, Rome conquers the western part of the Mediterranian area until 202 BC. Gautama Buddha preaches his religion of enlightenment, died 483 BC; Jaina religion. Maurya emperors Chandragupta and Ashoka, a Buddhist emperor. The Persian Achaimenid kings Dareios and Xerxes in vain try to conquer Greece. Persian religion founder Zarathustra. Late Egyptian empires, endangered by Persians and Greeks.
:book:
swordolf
06-14-2005, 13:49
Some giants of Chunqiu warring states age
[/INDENT]
swordolf
06-14-2005, 13:59
hi,Iam a chinese TW game and East Zhou dynasty history fan.China base Map be made by me--swordolf, it's me that provide the map to china MODgroup, .I am making full china map, even full Euoasia map!!
swordolf
06-14-2005, 14:07
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/history.htm :book: ~:cool:
swordolf
06-14-2005, 14:10
An Outline of Western Zhou History
The Western Zhou (Xizhou 西周) period is a highlight of moral government and enlightened rule in the thinking of the Confucianists. In the Zhou Dynasty's eyes, heaven-appointed King Wen "the Cultured" 周文王 received the heavenly mandate (tianming 天命) of overthrow the depraved last king of the Shang Dynasty.
Shang oracle bones and careful examination of the historical texts instead show that the conquest of the Shang area was mere a result of the general eastern expansion of the Zhou people. Myths of the moving of the capital from Bin 豳 (or 邠) to Qishan 岐山 or Hao 鎬 are proved archeologically. Around 1150 BC, the Zhou moved from the Fen River 汾水 valley in modern Shanxi to the Wei River 渭水 valley in Shaanxi where they settled among the Rong 戎 and Di 狄 barbarians.
After overthrowing the Shang Dynasty (a defeat that must have come quite suddenly for the Shang), Zhou rulership was in no way assured. It was not a foreigner who now acted as the enemy, but King Wu's 周武王 own half-brothers that challenged his rule. It was only after the defeat of his own family that the Zhou king could establish a reign that expanded rapidly beyond the old political borders of the Shang states.
When King Wu died, he wanted his half-brothers Duke Dan of Zhou (Zhou Gong Dan) 周公旦 and Duke Shi of Shao 召公奭 to assist the young ruler King Cheng 周成王 in government. The later tradition sees in Duke Dan a founder of Chinese civilisation, more than the kings themselves. The Duke was said to have invented historiography, the strucure of government (see the Classic Zhouli), the divining by milfoil stalks (shi 蓍), and much more. The Zhou rulers had two capitals, Zongzhou 宗周 (near Xi'an/Shaanxi) in the east in their homelands, and Chengzhou 成周 (or Luoyi 雒邑; near Luoyang/Henan) in the east where the Shang culture had its cradle. The Zhou were successful in subduing the Shang people and the tribes to the east. Their rule stretched from modern Shaanxi to the Shandong peninsula and the Peking area. But the "barbarians" (Non-Chinese) of the south and the west were strong enough to repel the Chinese Zhou. The Xu 徐 people of modern Jiangsu even attacked the eastern capital during the reign of King Mu 周穆王, King Zhao's 周昭王 southern campaign against the peoples of Chu 楚 failed. An attack of the Quanrong 犬戎 or Xianyun 玁狁 at the begin of the 8th century BC forced the Zhou elite to leave the western capital and to settle down east in Chengzhou (near modern Luoyang), an event that for the first time proved the superiority of the steppe warriors over the settled agriculturist Chinese. The following later half of the Zhou period is called "Eastern Zhou" (Dongzhou 東周).
King You and the End of Western Zhou Period
Although the Confucianists see the Western Zhou period as a time of glory, humanity and perfect government, it was a hard time for the Zhou rulers to survive the attacks of the southern and western tribes. But for more than two centuries, they reigned without severe interruption. The case of King You 周幽王 gives nourishment to the Confucian writers who blame him to have followed the words of his consort Baosi 褒似, thus making him equal to King Zhou 商王紂 of the Shang Dynasty and tyrant Jie 夏王桀 of the mythical Xia Dynasty. King You had established a warning system of towers that had to light a fire when the barbarians would attack. Baosi abused this system just for fun. When the Quanrong nomads 犬戎 really attacked, nobody hurried to the weapons. The fleeing Zhou elite had to dig their precious bronze vessels in hoards, a great luck for today's archeologists.
Spring and Autumn - A Period of Disintegration
One of the oldest traditional texts of China is the chronical of the state of Lu 魯, beginning in 722 BC and stretching down to 481 BC. It covers political events not only of the mere small state of Lu itself but also of the major states of Qi 齊, Jin 晉, Qin 秦 and Chu 楚 that dominated the politics of these three centuries. The entries in the Lu chronicle are regulary noted down per year and per season, thus giving the whole historical period the name of "Spring and Autumn" (Chunqiu 春秋時代). Historically seen, the period started when the Zhou 周 rulers had to flee from their western territories in 770 BC and moved their base from Zongzhou 宗周 to Chengzhou 成周 (or Luoyi 雒邑/modern Luoyang) in the Yellow River Basin, furthermore not being able to expand their domains. The end of the period came, when the few states taking over the de facto rule of old China, disintegrated by intern quarrels and gave up their decade-long politics of (almost) peaceful coexistence during the middle of the 5th century BC.
The second great historical writing of the Spring and Autumn period is the collection Guoyu 國語 "Discourses of the States", which accounts anecdotes of the states Zhou, Lu, Qi, Jin, Zheng 鄭, Chu, Wu 吳 and Yue 越. Said to be a composition of Zuo Qiuming 左丘明 (because much of the material is similar to the Annals of Zuo 春秋左傳, a kind of complement to the Spring and Autumn Annals), its oldest parts must have been compiled at the end of the 5th century BC. See a table of the feudal lords (zhuhou 諸侯) of the whole Zhou period.
The ba 霸 Hegemonial System: From Lord Protector to Overlord
The fleeing Zhou elite had no strong foothold in the eastern territories. The Zhou kings had to rely on the help of their neighbour states not even to protect themselves from raids by other powers but also to solve intern power struggles. The first lord to help the Zhou kings was Duke Zhuang of the state of Zheng 鄭莊公 (r. 743-701). He was the first to establish the system of hegemonial rulers (ba 霸), which was intended to keep up the old feudal system once founded by King Wu of Zhou 周武王 in the 11th century BC. Later historians said it was intended to protect the original Chinese states from the intruding barbarian tribes Man 蠻, Rong 戎 and Yi 夷. But in fact, all states of old China had a multi-ethnic population, which could not really be divided into Chinese and Non-Chinese. Tribes that were ethnically and culturally different from the ruling elite were scattered all over the country.
After Duke Zhuang's death, the two dukes Huan of Qi 齊桓公 (r. 685-643) and Wen of Jin 晉文公 (r. 636-628) made a step further in institutionalizing the system of the hegemon. The protecting task of the overlord gradually lost its original intention to become a system of hegemony of one major state over weak satellites of Chinese and "barbarian" origin. The attitude to help small states during internal quarrels changed to regular intervention into political affairs to the advantage of the great states. The two states not only perfected their own strength but repelled the southern State Chu whose ruler had proclaimed himself king and whose armies step by step intruded into the Yellow River Basin. The contending states Qi, Qin, Jin and Chu finally met for a disarmament conference.
During the relatively peaceful 6th century, the two southern coastal states Wu 吳 and Yue 越 emerged as new powers. After defeiting king Fuchai 吳王夫差 of Wu, king Goujian 越王句踐 of Yue (r. 496-465; actually a "barbarian") became the last overlord. The hegemons are also called Wu Bo 五伯 ("Five Counts"), identified as Duke Huan of Qi 齊桓公, Duke Wen of Jin 晉文公, Duke Mu of Qi 秦穆公, Duke Xiang of Song 宋襄公, and King Zhuang of Chu 楚莊王.
During the Spring and Autumn period, more and more land was made arable by implementing the system of rotating crops, thereby enhancing the general nourriture. Additionally, iron ploughshares became widespread during the 5th century. The peasants who had to render a slavelike civil and military service to their lords, worked the so-called well-fields (after the character for well jing 井) with nine compartiments. The fruits of the central field had to be rendered to the lord. Theoretically, all fields belonged to the king, but even in the several independent states, a crop tax of a nominal tenth was gradually introduced.
Iron was thought to be an inferior metal and thus only used for ploughshares, not for weapons. Industrial production of ceramics and bronze tools became widespread during the Spring and Autumn period. Interstate relationship was not only conferred to war and peace conferences, but there was also an intensive trade between the different regions. As commerce slowly emerged, it was also necessary to produce and to standardize coins.
The Era of the Warring States
A very intensified warfare, not in number of battles, but in length and professionalism of the particular campaigns gave this period its name. The old army of a fighting aristocracy was replaced by a general led infantry (similar to old Greece and Rome and the European Middle Age), with peasants pressed to be human material and commanders almost being independent from their lord. New weapons like halberds and crossbows came up, chariots and archers supported the armor and iron helmet protected infantry. The warring states erected garrisons and walls along their frontiers, military advisors tried to defeat foreign armies, and wandering persuaders (the most famous being Su Qin 蘇秦) proposed the best alliances with other and against other states. In this time of political division, a great diversity of thinkers (called the "Hundred Schools" baijia 百家) tried to persue different rulers to make their best way.
Coalitions to Rule the World
The Warring States Period began with the brutal extinguishing of the ruling house of Qi (the Jiang 姜 clan) by the house of Tian 田. The Tian clan took over the rulership of Qi in 481 BC. In the small state of Lu 魯, already in 562 BC the three Huan 桓 families had replaced the house of Ji 姬. At the begin of the 5th century, five families in the state of Jin 晉 began to engage in a civil war for the rulership of this state. Three of them, the clans Wei 魏, Hann 韓 (written with two "nn" to distinguish it from the Han 漢 Dynasty) and Zhao 趙, finally overcame their rivals and founded their own states, dividing Jin. In 424 BC they mutually recognized their independence. The king of Zhou only recognized this partition in 403 BC.
A century later, when the different states had already begun many of their interal strucural reforms, marquis Hui of Wei was the first ruler to call himself king (wang 王): King Hui the Benevolent of Liang 梁惠王. Besides the "barbarian" (Non-Chinese) states of Chu 楚, Wu 吳 and Yue 越 in the south, he was the first ruler to disrespect the traditional position of the powerless kings of Zhou. One by one, the other states followed.
But they were in no case united against the kings of Zhou: the Zhou rulers were not more than the lords of a small territory. Warfare became the normal situation for the next century. Seven major states, Qin, Wei, Hann, Zhao, Yan 燕, Qi and Chu, fought in ever changing coalitions (zongheng 縱橫) against each other. In the end, only the well-reformed and half-barbarian state of Qin was able to overcome the others, being "like a wolf or a tiger". King Ying Zheng 贏政 of Qin conquered one state after the other and proclaimed himself the First Emperor in 221 BC, having unified the whole territory of ancient China.
at last, How to reply pic?I can't
swordolf
06-14-2005, 14:11
The Kings of Eastern Zhou (Dongzhou) 東周 part I (770-475 BC): Spring and Autumn Period (Chunqiu shidai 春秋時代)
Capital: Luoyi 洛邑 (modern Luoyang 洛陽/Henan) or Chengzhou 成周
dynastic title
personal name
time
Zhou Pingwang 周平王 Ji Yijiu 姬宜臼 770-720 BC
Zhou Huanwang 周桓王 Ji Lin 姬林 719-697 BC
Zhou Zhuangwang 周莊王 Ji Tuo 姬佗 696-682 BC
Zhou Xiwang 周釐王 Ji Huqi 姬胡齊 681-677 BC
Zhou Huiwang 周惠王 Ji Lang 姬閬 676-652 BC
Zhou Xiangwang 周襄王 Ji Zheng 姬鄭 651-619 BC
Zhou Qingwang 周頃王 Ji Renchen 姬壬臣 618-611 BC
Zhou Kuangwang 周匡王 Ji Ban 姬班 612-607 BC
Zhou Dingwang 周定王 Ji Yu 姬瑜 606-586 BC
Zhou Jianwang 周簡王 Ji Yi 姬夷 585-572 BC
Zhou Lingwang 周靈王 Ji Xiexin 姬泄心 571-545 BC
Zhou Jingwang 周景王 Ji Gui 姬貴 544-521 BC
Zhou Daowang 周悼王 Ji Meng 姬猛 520 BC
Zhou Jingwang 周敬王 Ji Gai 姬[勹+亡] (i.e. 丐) 519-476 BC
Already during the Spring and Autumn Period, the Zhou kings had fully lost their authoritative position. Enfeoffments and politics were all made by the local rulers, especially by the few powers that were successful in gaining the overlordship over the smaller states. The five hegemons (wuba 五霸) of the Spring and Autumn period had taken over the supra-state role of a judge, an appeaser and an executor that once was observed by the kings of Zhou. When the seven great powers (qiguo 七國) of the Warring States Period (Zhanguo 戰國) proclaimed themselves kingdoms, the Zhou rulers had lost their last administrative role. They were not more than the scions of a once mighty house, and the only thing they had to perform were the ancestral rites and the worship of Heaven and Earth. Shortly before the occupation of the small Zhou territory by Qin 秦, it was divided into a western (Xizhou 西周: Henan 河南) and an eastern branch (Dongzhou 東周: Gong 鞏). The last years of the Zhou rulers are still not clear to historians. The Kings of Eastern Zhou 東周 (Dongzhou) part II (475-249 BC): Warring States Period (Zhanguo shidai 戰國時代)
Capital: Luoyi 洛邑 (modern Luoyang 洛陽/Henan) or Chengzhou 成周
Dukes of West Zhou (Xizhou 西周)
dynastic title
personal name
time
Zhou Yuanwang 周元王 Ji Ren 姬仁 475-469 BC
Zhou Zhendingwang 周貞定王 Ji Jie 姬介 468-441 BC
Zhou Aiwang 周哀王 Ji Qubing 姬去病 441
Zhou Siwang 周思王 Ji Shu 姬叔 441
Zhou Kaowang 周考王
Xizhou Huangong 西周桓公
Ji Wei 姬嵬
Ji Jie 姬揭; brother of King Kaowang
440-426 BC
Zhou Weiliewang 周威烈王 Ji Wu 姬午 425-402 BC
Zhou Anwang 周安王
Xizhou Weigong 西周威公
Ji Jiao 姬驕 401-376 BC
Zhou Liewang 周烈王 Ji Xi 姬喜 375-369 BC
Zhou Xianwang 周顯王
Xizhou Huigong 西周惠公
Ji Pian 姬扁 368-321 BC
Zhou Shenjingwang 周慎靚王 Ji Ding 姬定 320-315 BC
Zhou Nanwang 周赧王, the last king of Zhou Ji Yan 姬延 (or Dan 誕) 314-256 BC
Xizhou Wugong 西周武公
Dongzhou (Gong 鞏) Huigong 東周惠公
Ji Jiu 姬咎
Ji Ban 姬班; both sons of Xizhou Huigong
The Lord of East Zhou (Dongzhou Jun) 東周君
Xizhou Wengong 西周文公
255-249 BC
swordolf
06-14-2005, 14:14
Enfeoffed by the Zhou Dynasty kings as Dukes (gong 公), Marquises (hou 侯) and Count (bo 伯) of different territories, these feudal lords (zhuhou 諸侯) gradually became independent from their liege lord. Dukes started to call themselves kings, and marquises rose to the rank of duke or king. In the ruler lists, rank increasings are written in bold types. Personal names - as reported - of the feudal rulers are written in brackets behind the posthumous temple name, e.g. Liang Huiwang 梁惠王 (Ji Ying 姬罃).
For Western Zhou and the Spring and Autumn Period, Chinese historians accept 13 official feudal lords (incl. Wu), for the Warring States Period 6 (with Qin 7) although the smaller states were still existing.
The feudal lords are listed by state and by time, the states can be chosen from the dynamic maps below, the time lists (only in Chinese and without date) from the small table to the right.
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Zhou/feudallords.html
Western Zhou and Spring and Autumn Period: ZHOU 周 Qin 秦 Chen 陳 Yan 燕
Lu 魯 Chu 楚 Cai 蔡 Wu 吳
Qi 齊 Song 宋 Cao 曹 (Yue 越)
Jin 晉 Wey 衛 Zheng 鄭 [Ba 巴 and Shu 蜀]
Warring States Period: ZHOU 周 Hann 韓 Chu 楚 Yan 燕
Qin 秦 (Zheng 鄭) Yue 越 Qi 齊
Wei 魏 Zhao 趙 (Cai 蔡) Song 宋
Wey 衛 Zhongshan
中山 Lu 魯 [Ba 巴 and Shu 蜀]
swordolf
06-14-2005, 14:17
Chinese and Western historians call the type of government of the Zhou Dynasty a kind of feudal system (fengjian zhidu 封劍制度) because in many parts, the custom of enfeoffment was similar to Middle Age Europe.
The basic structure of Zhou government is said to be described by the Zhouli Classic 周禮, a book compiled during the 3rd century BC.
The king was assisted by the Three Dukes (Sangong 三公: Grand Preceptor Taishi 太師, Grand Mentor Taifu 太傅, Grand GuardianTaibao 太保) and the Three Solitaries (Sangu 三孤).
The rule over the outstretched area of Zhou China made it necessary to give a large part of the territory as feuds (guo 國; the rest was the royal domain) into the hands of trustworthy people (called feudal lords zhuhou 諸侯). The territories of Lu 魯 (Shandong), Jin 晉 (Shanxi), Cai 蔡, Cao 曹 and Wei 衛 (all Henan) were given to relatives, the far territories of Qi 齊 (Shandong), Chen 陳 (Henan), and Yan 燕 (Peking) came into the hands of generals. The domains to the west and south (Qin 秦 and Chu 楚) were ruled by peoples more distant to the Chinese of the Yellow River Basin. All of them were bestowed with different grades of nobility, called the five ranks (wujue 五爵: "duke" gong 公, "marquis" hou 侯, "baron" bo 伯, "count" zi 子, "viscount" nan 男), all with an appending territory.
The vast area made it necessary to establish a bureaucracy to manage the government. The general administration was in the hands of six ministers (qing 卿), surveying the six ministries (Liubu 六部): Ministry of State (Tianguan 天官, headed by the Chancellor Zhongzai 冢宰), Ministry of Civil Administration and Social Welfare (Diguan 地官, headed by the Minister of Education Situ 司徒), Ministry of Rites (Chunguan 春官, headed by the Minister of Rites Zongbo 宗伯), Ministry of War (Xiaguan 夏官, headed by the Minister of War Sima 司馬), Ministry of Justice (Qiuguan 秋官, headed by the Minister of Justice Sikou 司寇), and the Ministry of Works (Dongguan 冬官, headed by the Minister of Works Sikong 司空).
The officialdom was divided into three ranks (ministers qing 卿, grand masters dafu 大夫, and servicemen shi 士) and nine honors (jiuming 九命 or jiupin 九品, each of the ranks divided into upper, ordinary and lower shang zhong xia 上中下). The office of the scribe (shi 史) became more and more important. From the personal rule of the shaman king of Shang times, the rule changed to a king that was simply the head of many officers among whom the ministers, intendants and provisioners became more and more important. Even military affairs had to be handed to the authority of generals. With the younger generations, the relatives became more distant and had to be enfeoffed with their territories. These territories would become more and more independent from their king in the course of centuries. Sometimes like during the reign of King Xuan 周宣王, succession struggles in the small states had to be solved by the king himself.
The feudal system established by the first Zhou rulers had disintegrated during the Spring and Autumn period. The enfeoffed lords became rulers themselves. Among the multitude of big and small fiefdoms, a few gained hegemony over the smaller ones, including the territory of the Zhou kings. The permanent warfare made it necessary to build up standing armies and to create a centralized state. The most succesful state in reorganising its political structure was Qi under the guidance of Guan Zhong 管仲 (d. 645). "Master Guanzi" 管子 divided the territory into administration units and likewise organized traders, artisans, soldiers, citizens and peasants in units controlled by officials, that were rewarded or punished according to their effectiveness. This kind of centralized state would be much more capable to cope with all matters that required a strong organisation like war and public work. Guanzi was the first Legist, a thinking school that should later be fundamental for the founding of the Chinese Empire. The other states one by one copied this system, giving up the old kinship official system. Instead of ministers (qing 卿) and secretaries (dafu 大夫), related to the lord's family, a class of professional officials called shi 士 took over the state service, additionally gaining high specialized knowledge in both military and civil service. Confucius mourned his life long for the old elite and their rites that now suffered a social downward. As a crucial person in the new administration, some prime ministers (xiang 相) could dominate over the whole state, making the ruler a simple puppet in their hands.
But it was not only the bureaucracy that caused a drastic change in state affairs. Becoming independent from their former lord, the king of Zhou, the dukes (gong 公) of the great states enfeoffed their own followers with new territories. Several of these families could gain independence from their lord, like the families Zhao 趙, Wei 魏 and Han 韓 (sometimes written "Hann" to distinguish it from the great Han 漢 Dynasty) in the state of Jin. The feudal system with the king of Zhou at the top thereby dissolved gradually.
swordolf
06-14-2005, 14:18
The Zhou culture is apparently a mixture of different cultures of peoples that lived in the Wei River walley. After leaving the Zhou plain to expand their realm, the Zhou people adopted keenly the culture of the subdued Shang people. Oracle bone divination, bronze casting for sacrificial purposes and burying rites were almost the same as the Shang rulers used to impose. Writing was first used to comment divination results on bones and to write down enfeoffments and events of great importance upon bronze vessels that were buried with the deceased nobles together. But the Western Zhou also developed their own style in decorating vessels. Ornaments and vessel types became quite different from the Shang motifs earlier.
But historical events during the Western Zhou period were also written down upon bamboo strips, that did not survive, but whose texts were transmitted through the centuries. The most important texts to the Zhou tradition became also the core texts of the later Confucian classics: The "Books of Documents" (Shangshu 尚書 or Shujing 書經, literally "Texts of the Old") is a collection of speeches and discussions from the mythical Xia and the Shang Dynasty to the end of Western Zhou period. The "Book of Songs" (Shijing 詩經) is a collection of hymns, critics and popular songs from the Western Zhou and Spring and Autumn periods. The third great text is the "Book of Changes" (Yijing 易經), a manual for milfoil divination said to have been compiled by King Wen or the Duke of Zhou.
The Hundred Schools of Thought (baijia 百家)
In a time of warfare and state reforms, practical advisors were the most wanted teachers. Very successful were the Legists or Legalists (fajia 法家) who were the most respectless to enforce the ruler's authority. Almost all of them were engaged in the state of Qin who should be the winner of the great war centuries: Guan Zhong 管仲, Lord Shang Yang 商君鞅, Li Kui 李悝, Shen Buhai 申不害, Shen Dao 慎到 and finally Han Fei 韓非.
Another practical school was that of Military treatises (bingjia 兵家), with the examples of the famous Sunzi 孫子 The Art of War, Sun Bin 孫臏, Wuzi 吳子, Yu (Wei) Liaozi 尉繚子, the books Sima fa 司馬法 and Liutao 六韜.
The third practical school was that of Coalition persuaders (zonghengjia 縱橫家), meaning geographical vertical coalitions and horizontal coalitions, with or against the state of Qin in the west. The most important book is the Stratagems for the Warring States Zhanguoce 戰國策 (also translated as "Intrigues"), including many anecdotes of persuaders, making it a novel-like work of very attractive character. The book Yanzi Chunqiu 晏子春秋 is also a book of this category.
The most known school outside of China is the Confucian one (rujia 儒家). Confucius (Kongzi) 孔子 did not create new things, but he said his duty is to hand down old good knowledge and customs. In his eyes, the sage rulers of old had enough humanity and righteousness to gather the people in their domain and to rule without weapons and punishments. His follower Mengzi 孟子 assumes that man is good by nature. Nonetheless, social division in upper and low, reigning and serving is the only way to avoid chaos and war. The youngest Confucian, Xunzi 荀子, on the contrary, assumes that mankind is naturally evil and therefore has to be guided by ritual and rules. The collection of Confucius' sayings is called the Analects or Lunyu 論語.
Rivals of the Confucians were two schools of thought, that are not very known outside of China. The first is the school of Mohists (mojia 墨家) with the only representative Mozi 墨子. Mozi castigates not only the lavishness of his contemporaries, fighting against expenditures for burials, rites and music. His greatest merit as "the oldest socialist" was the proposal of an all-sided love that would overcome murder and war, poverty and envy. The second school is that of the Divine Farmer (nongjia 農家), proposing the equality of everyone, thus forcing even a king to engage in farming.
The second great religion of China, after Confucianism (means ancestral ritus), is the Taoism (daojia 道家), whose most important pre-Han books are the Daodejing 道德經 of Laozi 老子 and the book Zhuangzi 莊子. All of them show as an integral concept of Taoism the withdrawal from the worldy affairs and the self-cultivation. The latter concept results in the seek for eternal life with different methods like herbal drinks or meditation, leading to the development of alchemy. The Zhuangzi even sees a throughout relationship in every existing thing that one has to overcome, making the Taoism similar to Buddhism.
The many other schools of thinking like the Sophists (mingjia 名家) Hui Shi 惠施, Deng Xizi 登析子 and Gongsun Long 公孫龍 or the Hedonist Yang Zhu 楊朱 cannot be separated from either Mohist thinking nor from Taoism. Most of their theories are only scattered (three examples of Sophist debating: "A white horse is not a horse", statements of Hui Shi and "Zang has three ears"; examples for Hedonist thinking) in different books like the collection Lü Shi Chunqiu 呂氏春秋, whose structure shows the Correlative Thinking of the two principles Yin and Yang 陰陽 and the Five Phases or Elements (wuxing 五行). The relationship between the Hundred Schools and their difference is mostly shown in their unlike interpretation and emphasis of underlying terms like tao 道 ("way"), de 德 ("virtue"), ren 仁 ("humanity"), yi 義 ("righteousness"), li 禮 ("etiquette") and li 理 ("order").
Recently many unknown books have been unearthed from Warring States tombs. These texts evidently show how important philosophical schools were to help a ruler to survive in a difficult time.
Except the Hundred Schools, there is still existant an abundant library of books from the period of Warring States. Almost all books said to have been composed during the Zhou Dynasty, were only written down in the last centuries of it. Among these are geographies (the book Shanhaijing 山海經 refers to many magical animals in different regions), books of ritual, historical and poetical character (like most of the so-called Confucian Classics, the Book of Documents Shujing 書經, the Book of Poetry Shijing 詩經, the Book of Changes Yijing 易經 and the Book of Etiquette and Rites Yili 儀禮. A very interesting book is the Poetry of the South (Chu Ci or Chuci) 楚辭 (ascribed to Qu Yuan 屈原), that shows the mystical, nature-bound character of the southern thinking.
Very very nice, this will be another one I'm looking out for. ~:cheers:
swordolf
06-15-2005, 03:27
序（一）
序（二）
围棋本源
一、话“游戏”
二、说“田”
三、话“模仿”
四、说“天文”
五、话“地理”
六、说“建筑”
七、话“韧”
基本术语
八、话“术语”
九、说“劫”
十、话“气”
十一、说“形”
十二、话“厚”
十三、说“断”
十四、话“筋”
十五、说“腾挪”
十六、话“应手”
十七、说“打入”
十八、话“定形”
十九、说“弃子”
二十、话“复盘”
棋艺纵横
二十一、话“味”
二十二、说“美”
二十三、话“节奏”
二十四、说“线”
二十五、话“序化”
二十六、说“时机”
二十七、话“转换”
二十八、说“借径”
二十九、话“分寸”
三十、说“品”
三十一、话“四艺”
三十二、说“入神”
纹枰思维
三十三、话“易”
三十四、说“因果”
三十五、话“经纶”
三十六、说“逻辑”
三十七、话“模糊”
三十八、说“感觉”
三十九、话“现象”
四十、说“阴阳”
四十一、话“玄”
四十二、说“数”
四十三、话“心理”
四十四、说“静功”
四十五、话“棋道”
四十六、说“韬略”
枰外功效
四十七、话“忘忧”
四十八、说“境界”
四十九、话“中医”
五十、说“人文”
五十一、话“礼”
五十二、说“企管”
五十三、话“公关”
五十四、说“五得”
小结
五十五、话“定义”
五十六、“围棋与人生”对应录
what with all the numbers and names? are those the provinces from the map
swordolf
06-15-2005, 08:20
No,they are some Igo's nomenclature word.:)
swordolf
06-15-2005, 08:25
秦
齐
晋
楚
赵
魏
韩
宋
燕
吴
越
周
鲁
郑
陈
蔡
卫
中山
匈虏－－西戎＼北狄＼山戎（北戎）＼
东夷－－九夷＼淮夷＼东莱＼州来＼荆舒
南蛮－－骆越＼扬越＼寿糜＼夜朗＼且兰＼苍梧＼僰＼
叛军－－陆浑戎（允，严）＼骊戎＼茅戎＼东山皋落氏＼赤狄（甲氏＼咎如．．）
........
Qin
Qi
Jin
Chu
Zhao
Wei
Han
Song
Song
Yan
Wu
Yue
Zhou
Lu
Zheng
Chen
Cai
Wei
Zhongshan
Xionglu
Dongyi
Nanman
Slave
.....
swordolf
06-15-2005, 08:28
Please tell me how to reply with pic-map?
Myrddraal
06-15-2005, 13:21
Hey swordolf, to post a pic, you first need to upload it. I suggest www.imagesshack.us (http://www.imagesshack.us/).
Then, put tags around the link to that image.
So for an example, click on quote my message to see how I did it:
Myrddraal
06-15-2005, 13:22
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/rtw/forge5qw.jpg
swordolf
06-15-2005, 13:35
:furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:
Myrddraal
06-15-2005, 13:51
not working?
sephodwyrm
06-15-2005, 17:53
To swordolf:
Click reply.
This would bring you to a new screen with all the options and the reply window.
Click on the Yellow Square with Mountain button. This is the image input button. The image you want to post should have been uploaded already. If it is still not possible, I think you can post the picture at You Xia and then I'll post it for you here.
swordolf
06-16-2005, 01:37
I see
swordolf
06-16-2005, 01:39
http://bbs.netshowbbs.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4178703#post4178703
swordolf
06-16-2005, 01:43
http://bbs.netshowbbs.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=4178759
swordolf
06-16-2005, 01:45
http://bbs.netshowbbs.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=4178784
sephodwyrm
06-16-2005, 17:43
Also, be sure that you don't have chinese characters in the filename because I don't think English based boards support it.
swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:18
http://img24.echo.cx/my.php?image=11il.jpg
Chunqiu warring states age
swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:20
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=xizhou16vb.jpg
xizhou 1
swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:27
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=xizhou21cx.png
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=xizhou38vl.png
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=13zl1.jpg
swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:32
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=17dv1.jpg
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=10yx1.jpg
sunwu
swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:34
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=wu3pr.jpg
house
swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:43
disasters
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=disasters1sy.jpg
map_features
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=mapfeatures6ua.jpg
grounds
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=mapgroundtypes9bs.jpg
map_regions
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=mapregions9wv.jpg
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=mapregions3kz.jpg
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=radarmap20ek.jpg
swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:51
Taiwan of CHINA ~:cheers: ~:grouphug:
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=00006ke.jpg
shanghai
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=00014oq.jpg
Tibet altiplano
:duel:
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=00025jt.jpg
swordolf
06-18-2005, 09:56
up!!!! :help: :furious3: ~:eek: :dizzy2: ~:cool: ~:cheers: :book: :charge: ~:confused: ~:handball: :duel:
Any new units you guys are creating or have completed?
Type Name Here
06-18-2005, 22:54
Where does one go about downloading this mod?
Type Name Here
06-18-2005, 23:14
Also, I notice that the game interface in the screenshots are in chinese, can someone with another language play it, or will i have to spend the summer learning?
The mod is not complete yet, the chinese text will be put into both the city will display in pinyin and china's character. This way you can read it just like english.
Type Name Here
06-18-2005, 23:27
Cool ~D
swordolf
06-19-2005, 05:59
by hanben.
the river's width have be increased.so the navy can run on the main riverway, you can stay on some keypoints of rivers to stop your enemy. the river's stratagem value will be show. China's DEM is very different from euopea's. great mountains and rivers and passes can effect on your great stratagem!
http://img187.echo.cx/my.php?image=11ct.jpg
http://img280.echo.cx/my.php?image=23oo.jpg
http://img280.echo.cx/my.php?image=30ge1.jpg
http://img280.echo.cx/my.php?image=40mz.jpg
http://img280.echo.cx/my.php?image=77ee.jpg
http://img280.echo.cx/my.php?image=87wl.jpg
The Great wall, the famous Pass and so on will show on the map. let's waitting together for China-Warring states Age. :duel:
http://img280.echo.cx/my.php?image=11nr.jpg
swordolf
06-19-2005, 06:07
ChinLong is coming! ~D :duel:
http://img292.echo.cx/my.php?image=14mp.jpg
swordolf
06-20-2005, 14:28
up ! :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:
Type Name Here
06-20-2005, 15:13
So when is the predicted time of a beta, or release?
may be 2 month later , a beta will release . the final version will release with the new version of B:RTW
Type Name Here
06-21-2005, 14:50
Will a cross-bowmen unit be available? I'm pretty sure they existed in this time period.
sephodwyrm
06-21-2005, 16:48
FYI, even repeater crossbow units would be available. We have checked for authenticity. An archaeological digging unearthed a repeater unit in the Yue region.
There'll be regional advantages. For example, the southern states would have an advantage in ranged attacks. According to the records, the Qin clan of Chu came up with the crossbow and they have been using that weapon system ever since.
The northern states would have an advantage in cavalry and mobility. The central plains would have an advantage in infantry toughness and chariot tactics. There's also state advantages. So this is going to be a pretty deep game.
Type Name Here
06-21-2005, 16:50
:) I'm so anxious for screenshots! China is probably the least represented empire in gaming history.
Myrddraal
06-21-2005, 19:26
Guys, if your going to have the rivers made using sea so that boats can travel up them, how can you have bridges?
Guys, if your going to have the rivers made using sea so that boats can travel up them, how can you have bridges?
I think that they're just using thin portions of sea-water to represent rivers. At least, I'd do it.
:) I'm so anxious for screenshots! China is probably the least represented empire in gaming history.
Agreed, along with some Indian factions.
------------------------------------------
This mod is looking good from what I could see. Is this mod based on historical accuracy ? No fantasy units allowed. ~;)
NagatsukaShumi
06-22-2005, 12:55
Bridges been absent wouldn't really both me that much, I mean, if you were in a state of war, your bridge wouldn't be able to be crossed by your foe anyway, using boats means you'd have to sail your forces across (Chi Bi is on example I do believe where boats were used on a river, I can't remember the exact details, not in the period they are depicting but it was done).
I prefer been able to sail my forces up and down a river than march them down to a bridge which could be miles away really.
Yeah, I guess there should be more game made about china history; since it history can even be more violent than the history of europe.
Myrddraal
06-22-2005, 15:46
I think that they're just using thin portions of sea-water to represent rivers. At least, I'd do it.
Yes that is what they're suggesting, but you'd have to sacrifice bridges to do it. If thats what you want though. It might be of interest for you to check out the ferries thread in the general forum, though I doubt they'll be able to get it to work.
sephodwyrm
06-24-2005, 01:26
Yes that is what they're suggesting, but you'd have to sacrifice bridges to do it. If thats what you want though. It might be of interest for you to check out the ferries thread in the general forum, though I doubt they'll be able to get it to work.
Well, there's no major bridges across the great rivers. So ports would make a great deal of sense.
sephodwyrm
06-27-2005, 04:50
http://img68.echo.cx/img68/3500/xiongshi9zk.jpg
This is the elite late era trooper of the Chu state.
They are armed with sword, crossbow, halberd and shield.
They are also the most heavily armored soldier of the southern states.
swordolf
06-28-2005, 06:39
http://bbs.netshowbbs.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=455196
many new pic have be out! ~:cheers:
It's looking good, sephodwyrm. :bow:
sephodwyrm
06-30-2005, 23:59
http://img65.exs.cx/img65/5373/wuzu0ao.jpg
I shouldn't ignore you guys. Btw, visit the exclusive Zhan Guo subsection at TWC.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72
hey I heard there is a qin mod, know where we can find it?
thanks TWC to give us a sub-fourm , everybody can find more information in here
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72
this fourm support us a complete own space to display all thing there .
King of Atlantis
07-02-2005, 07:10
Is everything in this mod going to be in chinese?
there will be a english version .
more building screenshot here
https://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5525/00073pm.jpg
https://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8234/15pl.jpg
https://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4941/00044xa.jpg
https://img63.imageshack.us/img63/566/00339au.jpg
https://img63.imageshack.us/img63/7915/00390ks.jpg
https://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2504/00415pv.jpg
https://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9692/00422rv.jpg
want more information and more history , and more online chat about this mod please go to our sub-fourm in TWC
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72
the new feature are getting better everyday :)
wow -like new game
where i can download this mod
Geoffrey S
07-07-2005, 20:37
Looking very good, although the buildings could do with some more vibrant textures. But that's just nitpicking, keep up the good work!
the mod is developing , 20% have completed
20% have completed -I think need long time for finish
yes , our mod is complete different from other mod , if you need a mod just have new factions and new units , that will be more easy and take a few time to finish it . we are doing many thing , not only create the units but buildings and movie . so it must the biggest mod in the world .
Wow this seem to take forever only 20% in four month :)
new music mod have been done.this mod is made of more the ten film's muisc
music come from movie list
Taegukgi (Korean movie)
Backdraft
Troy
Pearl Harbor
King Arthur
Kingdom of Heaven
Black Hawk Down
Gladiator
The Rockets
Brave Heart
Alexadnder
Band of Brothers
list of music
01_-_Main_Theme1.mp3
01_taegukgi_(Prologue).mp3
02-Woad_To_Ruinp1.mp3
02-Woad_To_Ruinp3.mp3
08_Hans_Zimmer-War.mp3
11_James_Horner_-_The_Love_of_a_Princess.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(02)young_alexander.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(03)titans.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(13)across_the_mountains.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(16)dream_of_babylon.mp3
03-Do_You_Think_Im_A_Saxon1.mp3
05_James_Horner_-_Attack_on_Murron.mp3
09_-_The_Slave_Who_Became_A_Gladiator.mp3
09-Hector's_Death.mp3
Backdraft07-You_Go,_We_Go.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(12)preparation.mp3
01_-_Opening-Beginning_The_Battle.mp3
02-Woad_To_Ruinp2.mp3
03_-_Barbarian_Horde.mp3
03-Do_You_Think_Im_A_Saxon2.mp3
06_James_Horner_-_Revenge.mp3
06-Budget_Meeting1.mp3
08_teagukgi_(Combat).mp3
10_-_The_Trap.mp3
10_James_Horner_-_The_Battle_of_Stirling.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(04)the_drums_of_gaugamela.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(05)one_morning_at_pella.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(07)eastern_path.mp3
07_-_Secrets.mp3
09_-_Caravan In The Desert.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(06)roxane's_dance.mp3
vangelis_-_alexander_ost_-_(08)gardens_of_delight.mp3
03_-_Jade.mp3
Hans_Zimmer_-_(09)Of_The_Earth.mp3
03_-_Earth.mp3
05_Hans_Zimmer_&_Lisa_Gerrard_-_Sorrow.mp3
11_-_Not_Yet.mp3
13_-_Maximus.mp3
this mod is about 130m big , so i need some place to upload this mod . please give me a link .
Create by Waitcu from Pillar mod team
our Zhanguo mod sub-fourm in TWC(in here you can get more information more than here)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72
vale , rome is not build in a day , what's more , this mod is complete a new game . many things must be done . and now ,the unit is complete in 30% ,well because , many of our memebers should earn their living , and in June July August , are the most busy months in china for company . so reacently the works of mod get some delay . please understand our difficulties that one is reluctant to mention
pezhetairoi
07-20-2005, 06:19
Hey, if you need help with 'breaking out' of the niche language limitation by providing alternative versions in English, I'll gladly do the translation; I'm effective bilingual in both languages.
But... can you use jian ti instead of fan ti Chinese (sorry, I don't have my Chinese software with me now)? It's kinda hard to read the traditional form of Chinese cos some future Zhanguo players will have been schooled in the simplified version...
But apart from that, it looks really cool, and I'm quite happy to see that at last there's a mod that will be able to factor the present Senate's function in and make it fit into the historical context.
Oh, on a lighter note, the sight of hastati fighting on Chinese city walls amused me no end :-)
A question: The Warring States armies were massive, often in hundreds of thousands. Given this what's unit size going to be like? Wil you still preserve the 240-maximum size, or will you go on to even greater numbers?
well thanks for you help , add my msn waitcu@hotmail.com
the unit size i think that's no way to change /////
break through of RTW "pass" come true
camping map
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/3.jpg
battle map
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/1.jpg
Geoffrey S
07-24-2005, 15:41
Nice; I'm looking forward to this mod more and more. Good character portraits too.
i forget to explain of those new photo
It's a mountain pass, with a fort stuck in the pass. That way, to get through to the city you can't simply walk around the fort, rather you have to attack it.
Thank you for the explaination waitcu, thing are looking really good here; keep up the good work guys.
wlesmana
07-25-2005, 16:44
Good god. Total conversion indeed. Can hardly wait to play this.
RollingWave
07-28-2005, 09:15
Heh why you using the names of those cities during 3 kingdom period though? not to meantion the general pics and faction names etc........
because this mod is three kingdom mod , we are also developing this mod too
Two mods at once? A three kingdoms mod and a zhan guo mod?
I believe that a zhan guo mod is more practical and fits the themes of total war better. Three Kingdoms games should focus on personnel management and individual heroes. The concept of total war lies in mass armies and collective conquest under command of generals - therefore zhan guo fits better.
the name of this mod in chinese is zhan gou but if you translated it back to english it will be three kingdom :)
wlesmana
08-01-2005, 07:32
uh... zhang guo actually means "middle kingdom" which is what chinese people call China. So Zhang Guo Total War = China Total War.
I'm a bit confused now. Is the mod based on the rise of the han dynasty (Liu Bang's exploits) or the Three Kingdoms era. Or both? Or is it the rise of the Chin dynasty, the first unified china?
sephodwyrm
08-01-2005, 07:59
Zhan Guo = Warring Kingdoms (States)
Zhong Guo = Middle Kingdom
Zhong Yuan = Central Plains
I hope this clears up your confusion.
We'll be using Hanyu Pinyin romanisation in the translations. Wade Giles romanisation is insufficient for our needs. Btw, it is also the system used by PRC and Singapore. It is poised to replace the clumsy Wade Giles system.
Game takes place 480-190 BC (speculative). In any case, it covers the end of the Spring and Autumn era to the Warring States to unification under Qin dynasty, the Chu-Han wars and the consolidation of the Han dynasty at the capital of Chang An under Emperor Hui of Han (after Liu Bang).
i hope everybody can to our sub-fourm , in there , we post many history , hand draw etc ,we are waiting for you .
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/mengnan1.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/diwen.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/savage.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/soldier.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/cow.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/building1.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/building2.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/building3.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/building4.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/building5.jpg
https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b117/waitcu/building6.jpg
Dutch_guy
09-16-2005, 19:15
This looks great waitcu ! good job on the map, loks very good.
Hopefully this mod I'll be released / translated in English too
Succes with the modding ~:cheers:
:balloon2:
wow it been like 5 months right? ~:cool: ~:cool: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
Geoffrey S
09-17-2005, 10:46
Keep up the good work!
wow it been like 5 months right?
yes , because many reasons , the works delay . but i promise we will complete the Zhanguo mod .
Great structures & units waitcu. I'm very impressed. I love the buildings. ~:cheers:
Elephant
09-19-2005, 03:38
WOW!
Mountain passes, great textures, and ancient Chinese technologies, what more can I ask for? Oh wait, I know: please release soon to satisfy my urges. ~;)
But one question, according to speculations, the Great Wall was only meant to discourage barbarians from coming through by making it harder to leave with their loot. So, will you guys make those wall sections attackable and/or passable?
great wall will add in game , that's the history . so i need to do it:)
al'Callaendor
10-09-2005, 16:57
WOW!!!! very good! Great job:bow:
tuesmall
10-09-2005, 23:27
Yet another mod i have to look forward to <sigh> :) looks good guys im a huge fan of RoTK and those pics look great.~:cheers:
i have been release some units screenshot in here go to have a look LOL
http://generalscollective.com/forums/index.php?board=45.0
what's more the three kingdom mod sub-fourm have been settle down in
generalscollective.com , welcome to you :)
https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/sephodwyrm/JIANGJUN.jpg
tuesmall
10-10-2005, 22:52
Nooooooooo! your horrible! <shakes fist> how im being teased so!
Waitcu, why have you not answered my message here?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54675
It is disrespectful to the entire modding community to inform us that you have made a breakthrough, but then not even bother to tell us how we can do this for ourselves.
As far as I know there is no mod that directly "competes" with you in covering the area of China, so you can't even use the excuse that somehow your mod would be harmed by telling us how this is done.
Please inform us how we can do the things you have shown us. You do not need to complete a tool in order to tell us what that tool does; which files are affected, and how they should be changed.
General_Sun
10-10-2005, 23:41
khelvan, he probably doesn't check this forum very often and hasn't seen your question. I guess you can always private message him.
khelvan about the break through that allow the soldier to fight on the tower. They haven't release the detail is because it is new, and there probably many bug and other stuff they must work out to release the data on how to do it. Now instead of malign them why don't you wait a little while? There is a thread that like you complain about them in twcenter, you can read all about it here.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33820&highlight=major+break
hope that help
I'm not maligning them, I'm asking for a simple, bare-bones explanation of how something was already achieved (or the screenshot could not have been taken) two weeks ago. I'm not calling for the release of a buggy tool, I just want to know what files they manipulated and a basic, one or two sentence explanation of how they affect those files.
I don't need a full tutorial. We're all modders here, we don't need to have our hands held. Just a simple statement (we take file X and we do Y to it) would be nice. Hell, I could even accept the explanation in Mandarin.
I'll try PMing him.
i am sorry , i haven't on guild these days . so busy . i have reply in https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54675
https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/sephodwyrm/ADV/good6.jpg
https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/sephodwyrm/art.jpg
Geoffrey S
10-11-2005, 15:40
I like those models. Looks good.
kataphraktoi
10-16-2005, 18:08
Kataphraktoi likes Byzantium, but as a Chinese, Kataphraktoi likes the way Zhan Guo mod is coming along.
Very high quality modding present in the screenshots.
Kataphraktoi feels happy that there are Chinese TW fans out there. He feels like crying right now because he's so happy that he's not alone...sounds gay doesn't it? :duel:
Kataphraktoi recommends that Waitcu be awarded 20,000 taels of Silver...
~ Hao! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
So when the demo of this mod come out I wonder, I have been enticipated the release of a beta so I can test it ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
al'Callaendor
10-22-2005, 03:31
very nice!~:)
tuesmall
10-22-2005, 18:26
indeed :)
al'Callaendor
10-22-2005, 18:58
it is for when?
https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/sephodwyrm/Zhanguo%20building%20show/door.jpg
https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/sephodwyrm/Zhanguo%20building%20show/tower.jpg
https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/sephodwyrm/Zhanguo%20building%20show/palace2.jpg
everybody , please come to our new sub-fourm here
http://generalscollective.com/forums/index.php?board=45.0
i update all new screenshot there . enjoy it :)
shifty157
10-24-2005, 02:53
I hope youre keeping track of your polygons. Those buildings look a bit excessive. And very amazing.
General_Sun
10-24-2005, 13:04
Yep, the detail in those buildings looks amazing, I just wonder if we have enough time to appreciate them though.
al'Callaendor
10-24-2005, 21:53
Wow!!!
al'Callaendor
10-24-2005, 23:10
more wallpapers!!!https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/sephodwyrm/Zhanguo%20building%20show/palace.jpg
al'Callaendor
10-26-2005, 23:16
what is the release date?
al'Callaendor
11-20-2005, 14:20
for when the demo???
Geoffrey S
11-20-2005, 20:01
You may want to check TW Center; the team actually seems to be posting updates there.
al'Callaendor
11-20-2005, 20:18
ok~D
Sun Tzui
11-22-2005, 00:22
Spectacular!
Is there a release date?
al'Callaendor
11-22-2005, 02:07
it is "Sun Tzu", no?
Sun Tzui
11-23-2005, 00:45
What? my nick?
I wanted it to be but it was taken, so.....just added an i at the end.
al'Callaendor
11-24-2005, 00:11
ok, I understand.~D
Shigawire
11-28-2005, 03:17
Very impressive mod gentlemen! I've been reading about ancient chinese history of warfare, and siege engines recently.
Two questions:
1)The siege artillery, does it work with new animations?
If so, could you share this discovery with us?
2)Have you been able to modify or add siege engines yet? I wish to know if it's possible to change their models, and if there's a way to change the "siege point" value of each machine.. So for example the "siege tower" can cost 200 siege points. Siege points are allocated at the beginning of a siege.
If you don't understand what I am saying, I'll try to rephrase.
Withmyspearandmagichelmet!!!
12-02-2005, 19:35
What can I say boys and girls? Your mod looks fantastic and I have to say I'm seriously considering getting BI just so that I can play this mod when it's finally completed. I hope that the Zhan Guo will be every bit as good as it looks.:bow:
Perhaps the most ambitious Total War mod to date!
Just a quick question: The Zhuge-Nu/Chu-Ko-No won't be in the game, right? If I'm not mistaken, it was invented during the Three Kingdoms period, but I'm not sure. Just wondering.
al'Callaendor
12-11-2005, 23:34
new screenshots!:san_cheesy: :san_cheesy: :san_cheesy:
http://generalscollective.com/forums/index.php?topic=291.0
al'Callaendor
12-14-2005, 15:08
the mod is for RTW 1.2, RTW 1.3 or BI?
sephodwyrm
12-18-2005, 06:49
We're trying to make it work for BI.
Btw, merry Christmas and happy holidays!!!
Geoffrey S
12-18-2005, 11:40
Just checked some of the more recent updates, and it's looking rather good. Keep it up!
al'Callaendor
12-18-2005, 14:32
We're trying to make it work for BI.
Btw, merry Christmas and happy holidays!!!
ok, BI 1.4?
Myrddraal
01-07-2006, 01:30
Any news on this? It would be good to get an update...
al'Callaendor
01-08-2006, 02:27
Just a new screen...
https://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5043/heavyhorse9lg.jpg
Geoffrey S
01-08-2006, 13:35
Still looking very promising.
Is there any truth to the rumours that the team won't release the mod outside China (or at least, in English), or is that just the case for the tools they've developed for creating this mod?
sephodwyrm
01-11-2006, 17:21
What type of rumors are that?
I have to demolish their rear.
In any case, there will be an English version (I'm in charge of that).
And it would be released to as many forums that will host it as possible.
https://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3879/z148vl.jpg
You know, sometimes its rather hard to drive a chariot and carry the torch at the same time.
al'Callaendor
01-12-2006, 00:04
WOW! beautiful!
Geoffrey S
01-12-2006, 18:14
Looking as excellent as ever!
In any case, there will be an English version (I'm in charge of that).
And it would be released to as many forums that will host it as possible.
Very glad to hear that indeed. It didn't seem likely it wouldn't be released outside of certain regions, but I've seen that kind of thing happen with other projects so I was wondering about it.
tutankamon
01-15-2006, 11:59
Wauw amazing.. I have a friend who studies chinese he would love this mod :2thumbsup: when do you plan to release it?
al'Callaendor
01-15-2006, 20:29
news screenshots
https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5365/182he.jpg
https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4263/228zh.jpg
https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/627/278wz.jpg
https://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1985/285lv.jpg
Minister of Fear
01-15-2006, 23:45
Those screenshots look magnificent. I can't wait to play this. God, I love the total war series and its mod community. It seems that seiges will be more fun then ever in this mod. Can't wait, really, I can't!
sephodwyrm
01-16-2006, 00:23
Thanks a lot friend al'Callaendor for posting screenies for us.
Really appreciate it. :sweatdrop: :sweatdrop: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
We're making starting movies...and the testing package is now over 200 MBs...for a DEMO...
al'Callaendor
01-22-2006, 14:44
New screenshots!
https://img5.imageshack.us/img5/869/259rt.jpg
https://img61.imageshack.us/img61/2191/261pr.jpg
https://img30.imageshack.us/img30/701/16vo.jpg
https://img30.imageshack.us/img30/701/22as.jpg
https://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1029/59ak.jpg
AquaLurker
01-25-2006, 06:59
Will the english version of this mod be release on 29th of Jan or later? I am really desperate for this mod! I hope its 29th already!!!
beauchamp
01-26-2006, 18:36
Thank God someone started working on a Chinese mod :2thumbsup:
Kudos!
al'Callaendor
01-28-2006, 19:02
the demo is coming soon!
The Zhanguo Demo is about 400mb(may be more) inculding 5 facions , one style system of chinese building , a new campaign map of a part of china (about 40 cities) , new images (faces , events ,UI images etc) , 3 factions intro movies , 1 openning movie . about 6 new musics .
The Zhanguo Demo is mixing under the BI 1.4 version
sephodwyrm
01-29-2006, 00:27
https://img77.imageshack.us/img77/4214/49gw.jpg
Interface screens.
https://img77.imageshack.us/img77/7123/54fv.jpg
https://img77.imageshack.us/img77/7351/66no.jpg
To be released within 24 hours...this thing has costed new years eve celebration for the hardcore MODDers of the Pillar Team...
Salute! :2thumbsup:
Wow! Congratulations to the Zhang Guo Team!
Harlechman (Zulu Total War)
kataphraktoi
01-29-2006, 09:58
GOng Xi Fa Cai to all Chinese members.
richyg13
01-29-2006, 12:54
Dont mean to sound pesemistic cus this mod looks stunning! but is it gna be released with an english translation??
AquaLurker
01-29-2006, 15:47
Damn I can't read traditional Chinese...but I will try my best! Only 400mb more to go...bite fingers sweating...
al'Callaendor
01-29-2006, 15:54
AquaLurker, it is normal.
Warrning .if you install the demo's chinese texts files , your may not see any words in BI .because your RTW and BI have no chinese words store system in it . so if you want to enjoy the demo first without the texts . you can save your menu_english.txt and diplomacy.txt in other folder of RTW\BI\DATA\TEXT , after install the demo just copy that two files back into the RTW\BI\DATA\TEXT .
Yes they are making an English version but its not done yet. Its not the easiest thing to do translate an entire text
sephodwyrm
01-30-2006, 09:32
Download your Chinese version of the DEMO (as in a real DEMO meant as a Beta) here today!!!
http://www.badongo.com/file.php?file=ZHANGUOMOD__2006-01-30_Õ½¹úÈ«ÃæÕ½ÕùÖ®Îâ³þÕù.rar
Not today...I mean now!!!!
Unzip and copy and paste the files into RTW directory.
You need a clean RTW and BI install...so that's version 1.04.
Patricius
01-30-2006, 21:43
Most demos just offer battles. If this will have 40 cities, I cannot imagine how many the full demo will have.:dizzy2:
My jaw dropped when I saw these screenshots and now I cannot find it:embarassed: .
The download speed is okay. I hope the files merge fine.
If there are any mirrors for the files please do list them.
Moinllieon
02-01-2006, 01:14
Hmm, don't know why it's not on this forum yet, but:
Zhanguo - Total War Demo has been released.
BT download:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showpost.php?p=775908&postcount=11
English patch:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42859
Uh, from experience, it seems like the BT will download faster on BitComet or Thunderstorm.
Duke John
02-02-2006, 17:06
When is the Zhan Guo mod team going to release some info on how they got the new wall buildings to work? The rest of the modding community would be very gratefull if you participate in sharing discoveries. After all it's already a pain that CA does not release much info.
sephodwyrm
02-04-2006, 01:55
We actually shared discoveries, but there's problems with the wall BPI files right now.
al'Callaendor
02-04-2006, 02:52
The demo is wonderful!!!
Lord Adherbal
02-04-2006, 11:04
We actually shared discoveries, but there's problems with the wall BPI files right now.
have you found out how to make simple "collision box" BPI files ? so that units can't walk through building models. That'd be a good start.
simple "collision box" BPI files?
i am not sure what are you mean .......
fallen851
02-14-2006, 06:38
This mod looks great, I'm looking forward to it as much as a finished version of EB!
Is this for RTW 1.5? 1.2? BI 1.6?
Duke John
02-14-2006, 07:30
How did you make it possible to have a different gate than the original one from R:TW? To change how the men can walk on the walls/gate you need to be able to change a few files and that no other mod has been able to achieve that. Most major mods do want to do that. So that is why we keep on asking wether you share your discovery.
If you don't know what BPI files are, ask your teammate :wink:
Edit: Just saw the intro movie of the mod. It's a masterpiece! Well done!
i know bpi files but not sure with that whole sentence ""simple "collision box" BPI files? ""
@ your question i had been answer in your reserch post :)
any questions , please sent me the email . waitcu@hotmail.com
i will answer asap if i know :)
beauchamp
03-13-2006, 22:19
Great work! look forward to playing your mod, but im wondering if you guys are working on a 3 kingdoms mod?
Avicenna
03-13-2006, 22:46
I think they split their team into two: one half continues on the Warring States the other goes on and does the Three Kingdoms.
Personally, I'd think it would be great if you could burn ships in the Three Kingdoms like in the real history. I hope these kind of ingenius tactical feats will be included.
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