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Arthurian TW Preview 26th June: Campaign Map
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Arthurian : Total War is a mod project I have, based on Barbarian Invasions xpack.
Action will take place during Britain dark ages, in Britain and in Northern Gaul. I have choose 481 AD for the starting date, and it will end in the VIIIth or late VIIth century.
Featured region :
https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/bdhh/britain2.jpg
For this time I have choosed those factions :
- 11 Britons factions, like Domnonia, Gododdin, Gwynedd or Rheged...
- 3 Irish factions, Dal Riada, Mumainha and the Ui Neills
- the Picts
- 3 Anglo-Saxons factions : Saxons, Angles and Juts.
- the Franks
COMPLETE FACTION LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=810478&postcount=43
Another map I have made (continental provinces not showned) :
https://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5167/map032go.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
COMPLETE PROVINCES LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=810478&postcount=43
Britons will have very good units and an extended territory but will have to fight on every fronts : rebels kingdoms, Scots of Dal Riada, Picts, Angles, and Saxons.
If you choose Domnonia, you can own Arthur at the beginning of the game (there is no historical evidence but Arthur might have be from Domnonia, and became Amherawdyr 'Imperator' of Britain, or High-King, a successor of the romans governors).
The north Britons will got strong warlords like Urien Rheged, Rydderch Hael of Strathclyde, or Maelgwn Gwynned.
But Saxons will have Cerdic and Scots Aedan mac Gabran.
So Britons will have strong cavalry, romans-like soldiers, and 'Clan Warriors'.
Germans will got a powerful infantry, berserkers and axemen.
Picts will got terribles warriors, with not a good defense but very strong attack, and will be experts at ambush.
Irish will got tribal warriors, lancers, and a lot of javelinemen.
COMPLETE UNIT LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=848250&postcount=86
Fortress will be hillforts, roman cities, etc...
MOD PROGRESS :
We have done a lot in historic researchment.
Faction research : we got 20 factions, factions descriptions are to done.
Symbol research : we got symbol ideas, but none are done yet.
Units research : we have done a lot of Britons units. We need help to find some ideas (historically accurate if possible) for AoR/unique units for the Britons, for more saxons and pictish units, for franks and wisigoths units, and to complete all of our descriptions.
Skinning/Modeling : we need skinners and modelers.
Mapping : map_heights is done.
Codding/texting : none is done.
So if it interest you and if you have not mod project for this summer and/or this autumn please told me ~D
WE ARE RECRUITING MODDERS, ESPECIALLY SKINNERS AND MODELERS !
Our team :
Agraes : project leader, historical research, maybe latter codding.
Ian : historical research, maybe latter codding and mapping.
Ranika : historical research
Thrashaholic : historical research
Spongly : historical research
Original thread on esprit-str : http://forums.esprit-str.com/viewtopic.php?t=14392&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
My article on Arthur (in French) : http://membres.lycos.fr/paladinceltique/Arthur.htm
A very good website on the celts (in French) : www.arbre-celtique.com
And in English, this site : www.earlybritishkingdoms.com
Ianofsmeg16
06-05-2005, 13:19
sounds good, read bernard Cornwell's warlord chronicles, its about arthur and is actually very historical, I could help with history, i'm like that.
Hey can i just say PLEASE MAKE THIS OR GET SOMEONE IN WHO CAN!!!!
If i can help in any way i will. Being a Welshman and living about 5 miles from a debated spot of Arthurs last stand on the river Ogmore its something i have grown up being interested in. I have no modding abilities but if theres anyway you feel i can help let me know although you seem to have the historical research fairly well done. Just to let you know i am anout to graduate with a degree in Ancient and Medieval history. Dne a bit of work on Welsh history and also the roman occupation etc
Well, I got a good knownledge of the V and VIth Britain (and Britanny) and I have a lot of book to read this summer ~D
But if we are several working on gathering informations the mod will be better ~;)
And if somebody is a specialist of Picts, Irish, or Saxons in the darkages it will be very interesting for me.
I have also read Warriors Chronicles, very good novels ! If only the last movie on Arthur have take a such scenario...
Yes, I had to tell you that there wouldn't be any sarmatian warriors in this mod ! May be sarmatian's inspired cavalry, with their particular spear, and bowmen with composite bow.
Ianofsmeg16
06-05-2005, 16:35
about the map, extend the dal radia's holdings a little north, i believe they held land to the north of the isle of skye.
i would like to help you in any way i can (even if you are a heathen frenchman ~D ) doing reserch of the military of that period etc... and i can do very basic text editing(changing the names of factions and whatnot)
Well the map wasn't made for the mod but for my article on Arthur ~D
So, I have just post few hours ago and there is a several enthusiastic people that have answered me, I think that we can begun with the faction and unit discussion :knight:
(even if you are a heathen frenchman )
Yeah I am ~D
But remembers the Llydaw's Blackshields if you have read the Armes Prydein Vawr from the Book of Taliesin ~:cool:
Llydaw = Letavia = Britanny ~D
This is the banner I have made :
http://img291.echo.cx/img291/6380/atwbanner4yk.jpg
and in a smaller version :
http://img291.echo.cx/img291/728/atwbannersmall0np.jpg
Ianofsmeg16
06-05-2005, 19:00
About factions; the terms, south britons and north britons seem to general, if possible, due to faction limitation of 21, have dumnonia, powys, reghed (preferably north and south) and Gwynedd. Saxons are easy, angles, saxons maybe jutes (jutes are kinda small so maybe make a rebel province). North picts, south picts and Dal radia up in scotland, dunno bout ireland about 3 factions there. if my count is correct we have spaces left for more factions, e.g Gwent and Manau, hopefully manau so us manx can kick saxon butt.
sound good?
Ianofsmeg16
06-05-2005, 19:43
good map and region sit
http://www.kessler-web.co.uk/History/FeaturesBritain/BritishMap.htm
I have think about it in the past, and finally I have choosed to do 2 Bretons factions between 4 possibilities :
- a lot of Britons factions, for each main kingdom like you said : Domnonia, Rheged, Powys, Dyfed, Ebrauc and others, including Domnonée, Kernyw and Bro-Erec in Brittany. But if I choosed that the starting date would be 530 AD, when Arthur is dead. The problem is that the bretons factions will not be very differents each others, and at the beginning they will control very few provinces. And will we do the same for Irish and Picts eventualy.
- 3 Britons factions : North, South, and Britons of Brittany.
- 2 Britons factions
- only one briton faction
I think you love the idea of a manau faction ~D
I have plan to make it a rebell province, for all I know your isle have been sometime under Breton control (Gododdin, Rheged, Strathclyde, Galloway ?) and sometime under Scot control, befoire the Viking Invasion.
So I ask the question to everybody : would you like a lot of Britons factions, with a beginning at the death of Arthur, or only two bretons factions, and controling Arthur ?
I have also read a preview of BI on heavengames, it is said that a faction can emerge from another faction (the redactor take the exemple of the Goths from the Ostrogoths).
I think it will be very fine to begin with Arthur and one or twice Britons factions, and when he is dead, a lot of rebellions and the emergence of new kingdoms, if the expansion can make it !
Ianofsmeg16
06-05-2005, 19:59
well, if BI does allow factions to emerge then i will go with you, we need to be sure however and if we find out it doesn't then we should go for many factions (inc. manau ~D ) with dumnonia under arthurs control.
and also if you look of that kessler web map, click one of the countries and it'll give you a history
This map will be very good for our mod ~D
But there is no historical evidence with a lot of informations given, far of it ! There is a cruel lack of source for this period... we didn't called it Dark Ages for nothing ! ~;) And the king lists have been wrote between the XII and the XVth century.
Some historians believe that Arthur was only a warlord, or a local king, others that he was the High King or the Amherawdyr of Britain, successor of Emrys Gwledig, and this is my favorite theory !
A very good website with the Gododdin, the Book of Taliesin, the Welsh Triads, Nennius, Gildas and more : http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/celtic/ctexts/index.html
Ianofsmeg16
06-05-2005, 22:30
I agree with Arthur only being a warlord and historical sources tell us that at that period many people named there sons either Arthur or Arturius after a prominent WARLORD ath that time cant remember where i read that.
And btw i found info that says the isle of Man (or ynys manaw) was independant under Manannan and his offspring from 500 until about 650-675 A.D so an independant manx country isnt so far fetched.
~:cool:
See below for an updated list
FACTION LIST
BRITONS (Christian)
- South Britons, and if we can those who follows we be put as emerging factions during the game : Dumnonia and/or Powys and/or Dyfed and/or Gwent plus 2-3 continental kingdoms
- North Britons, the same with Gododdin and/or Ebrauc and/or Elmet and/or Gwynedd and/or Strathclyde and/or Rheged
IRISH (Christian)
- Gaëls
- Scots
PICTS
- North Picts ? (Pagans, converted by Columba around 550)
- South Picts ? (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)
GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Jutes ? (Pagans)
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)
- Wisigoths ? (Aryans Christians)
OTHERS
- Gallo-Romans ? (maybe only rebels)
So we got 8 basic factions, who can be extended to 21.
PROVINCES LIST
BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - ?
- Fidach - ?
- Ce - ?
- Circind - ?
- Fotla - ?
- Fortiu - ?
- Fib - ?
- Orkney - ?
BRITAIN, Scots :
- Dal Riada - Dunad?
- Iona - Iona
maybe the differents 'Cenell' like Cenell Gabrain, Cenell Aengus...
BRITAIN, Gwyr y Goggled :
- Strathclyde - Dun Breatann
- Galwyddel (Galloway) - ?
- Manau - ?
- Gododdin - Din Eidyn
- Bryneich - ?
- Caer Wenddoleu - Caer Wenddoleu
- Ebrauc - Caer Ebrauc/Eboracum
- North Penines - ?
- South Penines - ?
- North Rheged - Carlisle
- South Rheged - ?
- Goddeu - ?
- Elmet - ?
- Gwynedd - Dinas Emrys or Din Conwy
- Rhos - ?
- Ynis Manaw - ?
- Mona - ?
BRITAIN, South Britons :
- Dumnonia - ? (lot of differents interestings places)
- Kernyw (for me only exist after the battle of Dyrham, about 570 ) - Isca or Tintagel
- Llyonesse (a bit too legendary ?) - ?
- Glastenning - ?
- Ynis Weith - ?
- Caer Baddan - Badd/Baddon/Badon/Aquae Sulis
- Caer Gwinntguic - ?
- Caer Celomion - ?
- Caer Lundein - Caer Lundein/Londinium
- Caer Ceri - ?
- Caer Gloui - Caer Gloui/Glouvia
- Pengwern - ?
- Gwent - Caerleon-upon-Uisc/Caer Legionis
- Ergyng - ?
- Glywising - ?
- Dyfed/Demetia - Caer Myrddin/Carmarthen
- Brycheiniog - ?
- Ceredigion - ?
- Builth - ?
- Powys - Luggvale?
BRITAIN, Saxons :
- Regia - ?
- Sussex - ?
- Wessex - ?
- Kent (Juts) - ?
- Tanet Island (Juts) - ?
- Colun?
BRITAIN, Angles :
- Anglia - ?
- Fens - ?
- Mercia - ?
- Lindsey - ?
- Deira - ?
IRELAND, Scots :
- Uladh
+ differents cenells
IRELAND, Gaëls :
- Laigin -
- Connacht -
- Mide - Tara
- Mumhan - ?
GAUL, South Britons :
- Cornouailles/Kernyw/Civitas Ossismi (maybe 2 provinces) - Vorgium/Carhaez
- Domnonée/Civitas Coriosoliti - Alet
- Bro-Erec/Civitas Veneti - Vannes/Gwened (stay independant to the early VIIth century)
GAUL, Franks and/or Gallo-Romans
- Civitas Riedones - Rennes/Condate
- mmm much others civitas, as you can see there :dizzy2: http://img30.echo.cx/img30/8679/gaule4dk.jpg
GAUL, Wisigoths :
- Civitas Namneti - Nantes
- Civitas Pictones - ?
Ok, this is for the moment, I will add unit list later.
Ok, first unit list ! Keep in mind that we must modify it when we got the unit list of BI for Romano-British, Celts, Saxons and Franks !
See below for an updated list
UNIT LIST
BRITONS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Heavy cavalry
- Contus cavalry (Sarmatian's inspired cavalry with long spear but no shield and heavy armor)
- Mounted skirmishers
- Light cavalry
- Dumnonian cavalry (need to control Domnonia)
- Llydaw cavalry (need to control Brittany)
- Clan cavalry
Infrantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Clan spearmen
- Clan warriors
- Foederati Infrantry (unit of the expansion, armed with spear)
- Britons Legionnaries
- Llydaw Blackshields (need to control Brittany)
- Peasants
Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Bowmen
- Skirmisher
- Slinger
- Mountain raider (like the Welsh Bandit of Viking Invasion)
IRISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Clan cavalry
- Light cavalry
- Fianna cavalry ?
Infantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Pikemen
- Gallowglasses
- Clan warriors
- Clan spearmen
- Highlanders?
- Bonnachts
- Fianna infantry ?
Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Kerns
- Dartmen
- Slingers
PICTISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Pictish cavalry
- Light cavalry
Infantry :
- Spearmen
- Berserkers like's Warriors
- Clan Warriors
- Highlanders ?
- Pictish Peasants
- Pictish females
- Miathi Warriors
Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Crossbowmen ?
- Pictish bowmen
- Pictish Skirmishers
- Miathi Skirmishers
WISIGOTHS UNITS :
Mmm no real idea for the moment.
FRANKS UNITS :
Same, will see with the units of the xpack !
SAXONS/ANGLES UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Light cavalry
- Saxon raiders
Infrantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Berskerkers
- Axemen
- Fyrdmen
- Ulfserks
- Huskarls (general unit)
Skirmishers :
- Skirmisher
- Slinger
Others :
- War Hounds
MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS :
- Frison Pirats
- Juts Warriors
- Irish Warband
- ...
Some pictures will come...
Myrddraal
06-06-2005, 15:02
I started work on a campaign map for an arthurian mod ages ago. I'll see if I can find it for you. It went north up to the wall north of hadrians wall (whats it called?), down so that it included Aremorica and the north of the Franc territory, and half of Ireland
Epistolary Richard
06-06-2005, 15:34
I think that's the Antonine Wall.
Ianofsmeg16
06-06-2005, 17:01
The wall of antoninius pius, oooh go me! :book:
I started work on a campaign map for an arthurian mod ages ago. I'll see if I can find it for you. It went north up to the wall north of hadrians wall (whats it called?), down so that it included Aremorica and the north of the Franc territory, and half of Ireland
Looks very interesting, but we will need entire Ireland and Pictland also ~D
And that's very kind of you ~D
But the map can be extended West, I will ask Supertw for it. Aniway we cant finish the map before BI is out.
King Ragnar
06-06-2005, 18:26
You could make Hadrians Wall A landmark on the campaign map, the wall further north was only made from wood and earth, in 161 tho they left the wall and went back to Hadrians wall.
The vallum of Antonius was a little one but this line got a very strategic role to keep the Picts north ! With the 2 fortress of Dumbarton and Din Eidynn. The area between the 2 walls was owned by Britons foederati likes the Votudani of Cunedda, allied with the Romans, and in late Vth century here were the kingdoms of Strathclyde and Gododdin.
thrashaholic
06-06-2005, 18:46
Agraes I made a Welsh unit list for the MTW 'Fury of the Northmen' mod a while back, and did some research regarding provinces, names etc. if you want to have a look PM me or something.
Good luck with your mod, I'll look forward to playing it.
I have send you a MP trashaholic, thanks for your help ~D
For the moment I need to find the differents cities of each province.
I need also subjections for the unit lists.
And finally, this is the bretons factions that I suggest :
- As a main faction : South Britons, who will own Domnonia, Kernyw, Gwent, and some other territories.
- For another main faction, I will keep North Bretons, they will own Rheged, Goddeu, Penines.
For emerging factions (if possible)
- Llydaw (Brittany)
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel ~D
Featured Historic Battles
A list of some of the battles we can include in the mod.
- The Battle of Mynidd Baddon (Badon Hill), fight around 500 AD (several historians believe 496, but the Welsh annals give 516) between Arthur and the Saxons. A supposed place is Little Solsbury Hill, near the modern Bath. This battle seems to be a feature of the expansion.
In the Historia Brittonum, Nennius write that Badon was the 12th battle of Arthur, and during the journey he kill 960 men :dizzy2:
The Welsh annals said that Arthur wear the christian cross during 3 days and 3 nights.
- The Battle of Camlann : death of Arthur and Medrawt (the annals didn't said that Arthur and Medrawt were allied or ennemis), in 537 (or 542).
- The Battle of Arderydd between Peredur and Gwrgi ap Ellifer and Gwenddoleu of Caer Wenddoleu, in 573, this last one died and his bard Myrddin flee in the Celidon forest.
- The Battle of Catterick, between Britons and the Angles of Bernicia. The XIIth century welsh poem 'Y Gododdin', attribued to Aneurin (who lived in the late VIth century), tell this battle, it is said that only one Briton came back to Din Eidyn.
- many others battles... ~D
Well, interesting screenshots from Barbarian Invasions :
http://img234.exs.cx/img234/8892/thebiansmall7rm.jpg
On this one you can see a saxon army facing the Romano-Briton cavalry crossing a river
http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/618/618344/rome-total-war-barbarian-invasion-screens-20050523040931603.jpg
CountMRVHS
06-08-2005, 22:15
Awesome ~:cheers:
Keep at it, guys. Too bad BI is so far away!
I have worked on Arthurian-era mods for my own enjoyment; they just used the VI map, I added some factions and tweaked the units, but it was fun. Best of luck; I'll be looking for this mod when you finish!
Ianofsmeg16
06-08-2005, 22:46
BRITAIN, Gwyr y Goggled...
- Ynis Manaw - ?
Ynys manaw - Either Bally Cashtal(castletown) or Cashtal Rosien(Castle Rushen, which is the citadel in castletown)
As people on TWC also ask me to put several briton kingdoms I will do it ~;)
This is the scenario : Arthur is the new king of Domnonia, but he is also the high king of the Britons ! But a lot of others britons kingdoms have claimed their autonomy since the death of Emrys Gwledig, the uncle of Arthur and the last high king, or Amherawdyr. Arthur - and his successors - have to re-unite south britain under one king, to face Saxons !
The Domnonians will control Domnonia, Kernyw, Gwent, Glywising, Caer Lundein, Caer Glew, and Brittany !
I think give to this faction the control of continental territories seems interesting, cause they will got another main front facing Franks and Wisigoths.
Ianofsmeg16
06-09-2005, 12:13
Sounds good to me! all we need now is the map and we can get started proper, oh and a skinner etc...
Well I think that we cant finish the map before BI is out, cause there will be several modifications added by CA in BI, but I hope we can begun the work on it (on the .tga).
If somebody want to skin some units, he can also do it... but for the moment, not the main units who may be presents in the x-pack. I have ordered 3 Osprey books (Pictish Warrior, Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars, Anglo-Saxon Thegn) and I will probably order 3 history books (but there are a little expensive ~D ) :
- Age of Arthur, John Morris
- Arthur's Britain, Leslie Alcock
- Origines de la Bretagne, Léon Fleuriot
And as I have said, I need :
- Pictish specialists
- Saxons specialists
- Irish specialists
but I also accept any welsh specialist in the team. So say clearly if you want to join my team and what you wanna do in the team (historical research, codding, skinning, mapping, modeling...). You can contact me on MSN (agraes1@aol.com) or on my mail adress : agraes@wanadoo.fr
And remember I am also working at this time on Gallia : Total War, based on RTW vanilla ~D
beauchamp21
06-09-2005, 14:06
Awsome, idea, i think we should have a constant like Druidic/pagan vs. incoming christian feud, like in mists of Avalon
Erps, no more pagan remaining in Britain at this time ! Or very few ones, but all the druids of Britain were slained by the Romans in Mona around 50 AD. Britons (except thoses of Strathclyde and Gododdin) at this time were romans and christians.
Irish were christians also, South Picts have been converted by St Ninnian few time before, North Picts by Columba around 550, Franks under Clovis reign, Wisigoths were aryan christians, only Saxons and Angles stay pagans, to the late VIIth century if I remember ~D
Ianofsmeg16
06-09-2005, 16:48
well Agraes, count me on the team for research, any research you want i'll do ( i have a large library near me so i can go there) ~:cheers:
The city list given by Nennius in his 'Historia Brittonum', Xth century.
Caer Guorthigirn : Vortigern's Fortress (=Dynas Emrys ?)-> for Gwynedd ?
Cair Guinntguic : Winchester (Venta Belgarum) -> for Guinntguic
Cair Mincip : Verulamium ?
Cair Ligualid : Carlisle -> for North Rheged
Cair Meguaid : Lindisfarne -> for Bryneich/Bernicia
Cair Colun : Colchester ? -> for Colun
Cair Ebrauc : York -> for Ebrauc
Cair Custoeint : Constantin's Fortress
Cair Caratauc : Caradoc's Fortress
Cair Grauth : Cambridge -> ?
Cair Maunguid : Manchester -> ?
Cair Lundein : London -> Lundein
Cair Ceint : Canterbury -> Kent
Cair Guiragon : Canterbury ?
Cair Peris : Llanperis ?
Cair Daun : Doncaster -> ?
Cair Legion : Chester (Deva) -> Gwynedd ? South Rheged ?
Cair Guricon : Wroxeter -> ?
Cair Segeint : Caernarvon -> ?
Cair Legeion Guar Uisc : Caerleon-Upon-Uisc -> Gwent or Glywising
Cair Guent : Caerwent -> Gwent ?
Cair Brithon : Dumbarton (Dun Breatann) -> Strathclyde
Cair Lerion : Leicester ?
Cair Drathou : Drathou Fortress
Cair Pensa vel Coyt : Penselwood fortress
Cair Urnac : Urnac Fortress -> Ynis Mona ?
Cair Celemion : Celemion Fortress -> Celemion
Cair Luit Coyt : Wall-by-Lichfield -> ?
well Agraes, count me on the team for research,
Ok, nice ~D
So Team :
- Agraes (Project Leader, Historical research & codding)
- Ian_of_smeg16 (Historical research)
-> contact me on MSN
Ianofsmeg16
06-10-2005, 10:18
The city list given by Nennius in his 'Historia Brittonum', Xth century.
Cair Daun : Doncaster -> ?
Will be in south rheged(sp?), lol include it cos i was born there
Well, I'd be happy to be a Pictish and Saxon expert - Saxon stuff is a hobby, but my degree is "MA (Hons) Celtic Civilisation, and I did a few courses on the Picts.
Speaking of which, the evidence that Columba ever converted the Picts is slim - Bede says he did, but the Life by Adomnan of Iona says no such thing, and no later tradition to that effect exists in the north either.
Also, for units for all sides, I would consider them according to their social position rather than equipment. For example, having "Saxon Ceorls", and "Thegns", "Hall Thegns", "Gesithas" and so on is much better than "light and heavy spearmen", in my opinion - also, huskarl is a much later Danish term for a household warrior. A King's bodyguard or companion is a "heorthgeneat" or "gesith".
Picts should get a nice pike phalanx too - I'll try and dig out some pics of the Aberlemno stone to show you what I mean on that.
Anyway, sorry to babble, but I'd be very enthusiastic about helping out with this on the research front, so if you need any help, give me a shout!
Ianofsmeg16
06-10-2005, 21:52
wow, i feel humbled, theres this guy with a masters history and all i have atm is a 'C' grade in my Mock GCSE history exams. oh and a library... :book: ~D
Ianofsmeg16
06-10-2005, 23:35
Agraes, i added you to my msn, i hope you dont mind
It sounds really nice, Spongly ! For the moment I have only put 'standarts' for all faction. Thrashaholic have PM me for Briton units, so now with you we have Briton/Welsh, Saxon and Pictish specialists. Really good !
We only need now an Irish specialist, but I have contacted one.
Ianofsmeg16
06-12-2005, 13:49
so hows the mod coming??
I have spoke with Ranika, member of EB and specialist of the Celts, he have wrotten really interesting posts on the dedicated Age of Vikings and Fanatics forum for the Gaels. He is very busy but he will try to help us, so the team is now :
Team :
- Agraes (Project Leader, Historical research & codding)
- Ian (Historical research)
- Spongly (Historical research - Saxon and Pictish specialist)
- Thrashaholic (Historical research - Briton/Welsh specialist)
- Ranika (Historical research - Irish specialist)
I will edit faction, provinces and unit lists with some changes tomorow. This is the work we have do done in the following weeks :
- Finish provinces discussions by adding others kingdoms and find all cities.
- Discuss units, if you have you can post some pictures associated.
Scots should be called Dal Riadans, Scotland wouldn't exist for a very long time from the start of this period (and not even within this period); the Irish and Dal Riadans should share the same units for the most part. Dal Riada is seen just as a kind of tribe in this early period, only around 500 AD is it recognized as a seperate kingdom. I offer the same unit list for age of vikings and fanatics; they really changed very little in this period. The clothing worn by both; a long shirt to the knee (kilts didn't exist yet), a shoulder cloak (covers just the shoulders and upper chest), boots that come up over the ankle, a belt.
For factions, I recommend; Dal Riada, the Ui Neill, and the Mumainha (if you have the space). The Mumainha also paint themselves with blue dye, so remember that in addition to the information above when doing their skins. An important thing to bear in mind; the Dal Riadans considered themselves Irish, not a seperate group, in this period. They used pretty much all the same traditions and soldiers, many of which (like slingers, berserkers, etc.) they dropped later on or used substantially less. Also, while almost all of these units have throwing spears, unless mentioned, they don't fight as skirmishers.
Kernbannal ('Levy Troop'; unarmored club or spear militia with darts, fight as skirmishers) -
Description - The hierarchy of Gaelic societies is a bit unusual; it lacks feudal nobles and the subsequent varying ranks of nobles and peasants. However, Kerns tend to fall near the bottom. Without much money or inherent fighting ability, they cannot afford good equipment, nor are they likely to be sponsored by an arras (aristocrat). However, that matters little. Most of the time, a kern is just a man called up to form a militia in times of strife, and fight with whatever is on hand; usually hunting spears or solid clubs, accompanied by light, small javelins, often called darts. Later, kerns would become the basic soldier of Irish armies, but in this period are only militia.
Soikernbannal ('Levy Archer Troop'; only Gaelic archers they would have, levy archers with knives, hooded cloaks, hide in tall grass, but not really much good) -
Description - Gaels rarely employ professional archers as soldiers, except mercenaries. They, personally, see little value in archers. However, when they do employ their own, they tend to be simple levies of hunters, who, while proficient with their bows, are not soldiers, and easily chased off of a battlefield if engaged not properly defended, or if engaged in a melee.
Sleanaghta (Spearmen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather vest/coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The slea or gae (spear) is the preferred weapon of most Gaelic soldiers. Accompanied with heavy throwing spears and a solid Gaelic targe, these spearmen form the backbone of any Gaelic army. They are professional soldiers, who either bought their equipment, or were sponsored by a wealthier member of society. They are intended to hold positions, and are often placed around missile troops to defend them from cavalry and any other threats that might occur.
Tuanaghta (Axemen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The tua (axe) is one of the oldest and most favored weapons of the Gaels. The Gaelic axe has a particularly weighty head, meant to crush helmets and smash shields. With it, like most Gaels carry, are carried two heavy throwing spears, thrown into an enemy position before a charge. The Gaelic axemen act as a kind of bridge between medium and heavy infantry.
Claiomhnaghta (Mid-length swordsmen with javelins, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The claiomh, climh, or clom (sword) is an expensive weapon, but generally well made. Faster than an axe, and generally more wieldy than a spear, it allows the soldier using it to manuever into position for thrusts and slashes. The typical Gaelic sword is shorter than a longsword, but not a shortsword. It generally has a leaf-shaped blade, meant to offer wide, sheering cuts, and devestating thrusts that open wide, gaping wounds. It is accompanied with a heavy Gaelic targe, and three light throwing spears; these spears are favored for swordsmen, so to enhance the mobility of these soldiers, but keep them able to fight in the traditional Gaelic manner.
Gaemornaghta (Spearmen with long, two-handed spears (not actually pikes though), maybe use phalanx, or schiltron, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The Gaemor or Gaemhor (great spear) is a lengthy spear generally used in two hands. It is used in a tight formation as an anti-cavalry and anti-infantry measure; it is difficult to manuever past a wall of spear heads. While in use for centuries, this type of soldier grew increasingly more common among the Gaels as the dark ages and middle ages drove on; a response to the growing importance of cavalrymen.
Guirran (Horsemen with javelins, and an axe/spear in melee, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
Description - Gaelic light cavalry sticks to the common methods of Gaelic combat. They are skirmishers by default, meant to ride toward an opponent, throw javelins, and retreat, ad infinitum. Training and experience has made them fairly good at this, and the Guirran (horsemen), later called hobblers or hobilars, became a staple of English and French armies as well.
Amguirran Ridire (Gaelic heavy cavalry with axes/swords, and lance, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, should be a bit late period) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Ridire are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On horseback, they form the Amguirran (heavy horsemen); Gaels don't tend to use much heavy cavalry, but when they do, they form a powerful reserve on the field for mowing down enemy infantry.
Ridire (Gaelic heavy infantry with axes, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, throwing spears) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Ridire are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On foot, they form heavy infantry soldiers, with throwing spears, like most other Gaelic infantry, to disrupt an enemy line before charging. When defending, they use a tight shieldwall, to absorb charges.
Arras (Gaelic general unit, foot nobles with swords, scale armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, javelins) -
Description - Gaelic 'nobility' are drawn from numerous places; everyone from the lowest chief to the high king are considered Arras, as well as indepedent, wealthy merchants and traders. They can afford the best training, the best equipment, and the best soldiers to support them. Like other Gaels, they carry javelins to throw at their enemies before charging, and form a tight shieldwall-like formation to absorb an attack. They use long slashing and thrusting swords, which are fairly rare among Gaels. The heavy Gaelic targe, good quality scale armor, and a well-made iron helmet, provide them great protection against their enemies.
Rastriagha (Berserkers, use a cudgel or hammer, round shield, probably wearing a crucifix (they were fanatics of different saint cults, and also generally trained soldiers), no armor) -
Description - The Gaels have their own berserker tradition, stemming from pagan times, but adapted well into the Christian era. The Irish are generally very fervent people; the most fervent soldiers tend to belong to saint cults, such as the cult of St. Finbar. Their devotion to their people and the Church keeps them constantly training. Many even join monastaries and are actually monks or priests. In battle, they enter a kind of religious-inspired frenzy, and kill anyone they see as a threat to Ireland or Christianity.
Inishnaghta (Irish islanders from the satellite islands of Ireland, with heavy cloaks, no armor, large round shield, bipenne axe (two blades), heavy throwing spears, leather helmet, painted skin regardless of faction, Ui Neill and Mumainh only; available in the western provinces of Ireland only) -
Description - The islanders of Ireland live among the many sattelite islands. They fight with a version of the Gaelic axe, with two blades, and carry heavy throwing spears. They still paint their skin, and are some of the bravest soldiers in Ireland, though they wear no armor, but a helmet, and instead use a heavy cloak as defense.
Maiobhanaghta (Gaelic slingers with knives and a small round shield, padded armor, leather helmet, better than their archers, and slings are substantially longer range than a normal bow) -
Description - The sling is still a popular weapon among the Gaels. It is far longer range than a regular bow, and a sling bullet of clay or stone is surprisingly deadly. Slingers in use by the Gaelic often are used to harass an enemy from great distance. Further, they are professional soldiers, not levies like Gaelic archers.
Caeisornaghta (Gaelic macemen, with a round-headed mace {not flanged, like medieval period mace} or modified work hammer, round shield, throwing spears, leather helmet, padded armor) -
Description - The mace is an old, simple weapon. While popularized widely in Europe by the advent of plate armor, Gaels, the Irish particularly, have used the mace for centuries, with a smooth spherical or egg-shaped head, or a hammer head. They are another arm of Gaelic infantry, and fight like axe or spearmen, with heavy spears thrown before a charge. The mace is essentially a glorified club, but it is very effective against most types of armor and any shield.
On Gaelic structures; the Gaels built stone-faced ring walls around their largest towns and cities, called cashels. The center of the settlement is generally the local chief, chieftan, or king's personal residence, or that of a powerful judge, businessman, or clergyman. This can be a manor, but the most extravagant were generally large stone towers. The Gaels built less permanent dirt paths, but also more permanent wood 'highways', and raised roads in swamps. Gaels built round structures mainly.
Place names in Ireland; Meath is Midhe, capitol is Teamhaidh/Teamhair (Tara), Ulster is Ulaid, and is divided into three regions (Oirgaillia/Airgallia; East Gaels, capitol of Eahmain Macha, with Armagh in the south, actually the southern region of Ulster, Ulaidh, capitol of Raithmhor; takes up the eastern side of Ulster; Ui Neillia, the western side of Ulster, capitol of Cenell, depending on period), Leinster is Laigin, capitol of Dun Ailinne, Connacht is in two; Connaght (the northern 2/3rds; capitol of Cruachu) and Tuad (the southern 1/3rd, capitol of Killardan; eventually became Tuadmumu), Munster is in two; Desmumu (eastern half, capitol of Caiseal), and Eoghanaght (western half, capitol of Orliglin). Other potential regions (give the scale of the map); Inisharanna (capitol of Inishmhor), and a whole mileu of clan regions.
Remember that Ireland and Britain are much more heavily forested in this period, and both are covered in rivers.
UPDATE
FACTION LIST
Playables
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia
- Rheged
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel
- Gwent & Glywysing
- Dyfed
IRISH (Christian)
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada
PICTS
- Picts (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)
GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Juts (Pagans)
FRANKS
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)
So 20 factions for the moment. Hoping we will have enought slots !
PROVINCES LIST
* I need somes capitals as you see (but for the Britons it will be easy to find few ones, exemple capital of Lundein = Caer Lundein/Londinium)
* If you want others provinces (I don't have put the provinces of Gaul yet, I will add them later), tell me.
BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - Catichean
- Abron - Abrondihanna
- Fidach - Craig Phadrig?
- Ce - Cechean (Keith)
- Circind - Aberlemno?
- Fotla - Restenneth
- Fortiu - Dundurn?
- Fibb - Abernethy
- Domon - Foncehean
- Aerdrognan (Orkney) - Aerdrognan
BRITAIN, Dal Riada :
- Cenell Baetain - Iona?
- Cenell Loairn - Dun Maoth
- Cenell Gabrain - Dunadd
BRITAIN, Britons :
- Strathclyde - Dun Breatann (Dumbarton)
- Cumbria - ?
- Galwyddel (Galloway) - Din Rheged (Dunragit, near Stranraer)
- Manau - Ad Vallum
- Gododdin - Trapain Law (near Heddington)
- Din Eydin - Din Eidyn (Edinburgh)
- Bryneich – Cathraeth (Catterick)
- Caer Wenddoleu - Caer Wenddoleu
- Ebrauc - Caer Ebrauc/Eboracum (York)
- Dunoting (North Penines) - Dent?
- The Peak (South Penines) - Din Pabo (invention)
- North Rheged – Caer Ligualid (Carlisle)
- South Rheged – Caer Legion/Deva (Chester)
- Goddeu - Caer Goddeu (invention)
- Elmet - Campoduno* (Leeds)
- Gwynedd - Din Conwy (Deganwy)
- Meiryonydd
- Rhos - Din Arth
- Ynis Manaw – Cashtal Rosien
- Ynis Mon - Abberfraw
- Domnonia - Caer Uisc/Isca (Exeter)
- Durotrigia - Caer Durnac/Durnovaria (Dorchester)
- Kernyw (for me only exist after the battle of Dyrham, 577 ) - Tintagel
- Glastenning - Din Cad (South Cadbury Hill)
- Ynis Weith - Din Weith (invention)
- Baddan - Badd/Baddon/Badon/Aquae Sulis (Bath)
- Gwinntguic – Caer Gwinntguic/Venta Belgarum (Winchester)
- Celomion – Caer Celomion (Silchester)
- Lundein - Caer Lundein/Londinium (London)
- Ceri – Caer Ceri (Cirencester)
- Gloui - Caer Gloui/Caer Glew/Glouvia (Gloucester)
- Pengwern - Viroconium* (Wroxeter)
- Gwent - Caer Went (Caerwent)
- Ergyng - Caerleon-upon-Uisc/Caer Legionis (Caerleon)
- Glywising - Caer Teif (Cardiff) or Dinas Powys
- Dyfed/Demetia - Caer Myrddin (Carmarthen)
- Brycheiniog - Caer Sws
- Ceredigion - Din Ceredig (invention)
- Builth - Caer Beris
- Powys - Dinas Bran or Caer Meguaidd/Meifod or Caer Dolforwynn
BRITAIN, Saxons :
- Sussex - Andredesceaster (Pevensey)
- Kent (Juts) - Canterbury
- Tanet Island (Juts) - ?
- Essex - Colchester
BRITAIN, Angles :
- Anglia - ?
- Fens - Leicester
- Lindsey - (Lincoln)
- Bernicia - Lindisfarne
- Deira - ?
IRELAND, Dal Riada :
- Dal Riatta - Dun Ranma (This is the name of the fortress on the coast according to the 'West' cycle, that was captured by the Ui Neill, and effectively expelled the Dal Riadan kingdom from Ireland (though the Dal Riadans still acted as if they were one of the kingdoms)) - Dal Riatta
IRELAND, Ui Neill :
- Ulaidh – Raithmor - Volunta
- Oirulaidh - Eahmain Macha - Eoradha
- Ui Neillia – Cenell Neill - Ui Neill
- Oirgaillia – Ard Macha - Ui Daron
- Mide - Teamhaidh - Ui Oir Neill ('East Niells'; the Ui Neill controlled Teamhaidh as defacto leaders at the time, hence their later claims to 'proper' title of high king, though eventually the east Niells split from the rest of the Ui Neill; also important to note, this is not a big place at the time, it was originally intended just for the families of those who worked in the temples/churches at the hills, so it hadn't really built up much yet)
IRELAND, Mumainha :
- Tuad - Killardan - Ui Broann
- Desmumu - Caiseal - Ui Cormac
- Urmumu - Orliglin - Ui Conchobar
- Gabhonnaoi (Yes, this should be Mumainha, Conglach of Desmumu controlled the chiefs here as his vassals) - Mondonnan - Gabhona
IRELAND, Rebels :
- Goirmide - Dun Rann - Ui Conn
- Oiriagh - Dun Riagh - Riaghan
- Roirragh - Breganna - Braigan
- Inisharanna - Inishmhor - Aranna
- Laigin - Dun Ailinne - Laigini
- Ard Mammo – Cruachu - Connaghta
- Oigallion - Dun Badon - Badon
- Amroi - Dun Amroi - Amroi
- Sloaigha - Rethconn - Relliagh
GAUL, Britons :
- Kernow - Carahès
- Poher - Castel Conomore
- Domnonée - Alet
- Bro-Erec - Aula Regia (Auray)
- Darioritum - Darioritum (Vannes)
UNIT LIST
* Here we have to find others ideas, and to change generic names and standart unit 'heavy spearmen', an others, by more historical ones.
* I also need ideas for regional units (like Domnonian cavalry or Llydaw Blackshields)
* Check https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=848250&postcount=86 for an updated list with descriptions.
BRITONS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Marchomawr (Heavy cavalry)
- Marca Contwn (Contus cavalry, Sarmatian's inspired cavalry with long spear but no shield and heavy armor)
- Marchogluoedd (Light cavalry)
- Marca Dumonyna (Domnonian cavalry, need to control Domnonia)
- Marca Llydaw, (Llydaw cavalry, need to control Brittany)
- Teulu
Infrantry :
- Rherel (Heavy spearmen)
- Gwaywffynabwre (Clan spearmen)
- Bonheddwyr
- Rhyfelwyrmawr ("Great Warriors")
- Aeson Llydaw (Blackshields of Letavia, need to control Brittany)
- Bêrfelawre Merionydd (Merionydd long spearmen)
- Arwrweision
- Aulue (town militia)
- Galweddyl Aulue (Gaelic levies)
- Cleddyfcludwra (Sword carriers)
- Milwre
- Campwyrau (Champions)
- Rherel Manau (Heavy Manx Spearmen)
- Galwyddel Ymyll
- Rhyfelwyr Rheged
- Aumabellu
- Galwyddel nobles axemen*
- Strathclyder Swordsmen*
Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Saethwre (Bowmen)
- Rhyfelwyr
- Ardue (Levies)
- Fwnmilwre (Slinger)
- Helwyr (Huntsmen) (like the Welsh Bandit of Viking Invasion)
- Saethwre Powys
- Ardu (Levies)
- Fwnmilwre (Slingers)
IRISH UNITS (lot is done with the great help of Ranika) :
Cavalry :
- Guirran
- Amguirran Ridire
- Carpata
Infantry :
- Kernbannal
- Sleanaghta
- Tuanaghta
- Claiomhnaghta
- Gaemornaghta
- Ridire
- Arras
- Rastriagha
- Inishnaghta
- Caeisornaghta
- Ruardi-Laecha (Ui Neill only, elite)
- Audheran-Laecha (Dal Riada only, elite)
- Corcanneitae (Mumainha only, elite)
- Dinuadda-Claiomhnaghta
Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Soikernbannal
- Maiobhanaghta
PICTISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Marchan
- Marchan Tho
- Mormaers
Infantry :
- Ludodaoer
- Schiltron
- Chodaoer
- Northern Warriors
- Gairlom (spearmen)
- Thomordaoer (Two handed axemen)
- Aumue Boai
- Gai Aurmahr ('Spear Masters')
Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Huntsmen
- Youths
- Cingalom (slingers)
- Saiogdaoer (bowmen)
WISIGOTHS UNITS :
Mmm no real idea for the moment.
FRANKS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Mounted Antrustions (King’s Warband)
- Gallic light cavalry
Infantry :
- Antrustions
- Foederati
- Frankish Warriors
- Miles
- Frankish champions
Skirmishers :
- Frankish Freemen
- Frankish archers
SAXONS/ANGLES UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Cnihtas ("Mounted Retainers")
- Horswhealas
Infrantry :
- Gesithas ("Companions")
- Heorthgeneats ("Hearth-Friends")
- Duguth (Older Warriors)
- Geoguth (Younger Warriors)
- Ceorls ("Peasants")
- Wulfbyrne ("Wolf-shirts")
- Wræccan ("Wanderers")
- Hall Teghn (general unit)*
Skirmishers :
- Geburs ("Serfs")
Others :
- War Hounds*
MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS :
- Frison Pirats*
- Juts Warriors*
- Wræccan (Anglo-Saxon)
- Gasraidha (Irish)
- Babuanna (Irish)
- Horswealas
I also quote there a PM of Thrashaholic with the description of some Britons units, he have done it in the past for a such mod on Viking Invasion.
Cavalry
Teulu-
Literally meaning “family”, the Teulu were the professional noble bodyguards of individual princes and chieftains. Although cavalry are generally not best suited to the rough hilly and mountainous terrain of Britain, the Teulu often rode into battle. Being of the nobility, the Teulu could afford the best of military equipment and were very well armed by Celtic standards: they wore chain mail and helmets, and carried a shield and a lance, making them a pivotal force on the battlefield.
Royal unit of 40 men
Strong charge
Very good Attack
Good Morale
Armoured
(Should be pretty expensive)
Infantry
Merionydd long spear-men
The spear was the weapon of choice in Wales, with those from the North being particularly skilled in its use. The men of the Merionydd area of Gwynedd were renowned throughout for their superb ability with the spear. The general consensus amongst the Welsh was: “the longer the spear the better”, and as such the men of Merionydd carried spears as long as pikes. As well as their pikes, they had small round shields and fought in Phalanx-like formations.
60 man unit (best in deep formations etc.),
fast,
good defence
weak attack,
no armour
only available in Gwynydd
Ryfelwyr
Constant in fighting between the petty kingdoms of post-Roman Britain and skirmishes with the English led to the Britons becoming accustomed to war, they became a “jack of all trades”, perfectly suited to irregular warfare. Carrying a powerful bow, that could pin a horseman’s leg to his horse, a large sword and a small round shield, the prominent tactics of the Britons were to ambush the enemy, pepper them with arrows and then charge in for the kill.
60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
poor morale
Bonheddwyr
The Bonheddwyr were free nobles, the elite foot soldiers of a Chieftain’s armies. Before a battle these champions would often walk forward in front of their army insulting, taunting and challenging their opposition (much to the amusement of their fellows), and be accompanied by shouting and jeering from the lower ranking men, and the din of their war trumpets. The Bonheddwr were lightly armoured, and the individual carried a spear, a small round shield and several javelins into battle.
40 man unit
fast
strong charge
very good attack
good defence
armoured
good morale
Arwrweision
Literally mean ‘brave men’, the Arwrweision are the veterans of numerous battles, they are the non-noble elite of a British Chieftain’s army. It was considered an honour amongst Britons to be drafted into military service, so all able-bodied men had a weapon and were up for a fight. Carrying similar equipment to their fellow peasants, swords, bows and shields, the defining characteristic of the Arwrweision is that, although they share their comrade’s eagerness for battle, they don’t share their eagerness to run away.
60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
very good morale
Helwyr (Huntsmen)-
The Welsh people were keen huntsmen and used the hunt to practice the skills needed in battle. There are numerous Welsh stories and poems linked with their passion for hunting, most notably the tale of Prince Llewelyn and his greyhound Gellert. To be a good huntsman meant a men could command a powerful role in the royal courts and society in general, and could become very rich. The Helwyr equipped powerful bows, enabling them to kill the toughest of quarry, but very little close combat weaponry, thus should be kept out of melees.
60 man unit
Very Fast
Very good missile attack/ very accurate
Poor in close combat
Skirmishers
No armour
Ianofsmeg16
06-13-2005, 16:01
sounds good to me!! is there any research you want me to do? provinces, military, buildings etc...?
EDIT: I can also do concept art for units, but i need to figure out how to incorperate them onto my computer withou a scanner...
Ian, if you want you can :
- found out the different capital cities for each province
- search about architecture of the different factions
- search about unit ideas for each faction (and change english names to celt/saxon names)
You can do some concepts art, and take a photo of those to put it on your PC ! Anyway, Lucterios (who works with me on Gallia : Total War) may do some concept arts later, when he have finished with those of Gallia TW.
No Fianna units for the Irish factions. The Fianna were destroyed during Christianization. Some converted and became bodyguards of the kings, but others saw Christianity as a threat, and turned on the kingdoms (in essence, committed treason) and were destroyed in battle. If you want a special unit like that, maybe the Ruardi-Laecha (Red Warriors). They used longswords, round shields, javelins, wore chain armor, painted their faces with red dyes, and wore a red under-tunic, and fought as a type of elite warrior, on foot and on horseback, but were pretty rare.
Very nice idea ! It sounds intersting to me if the differents factions will have an elite unite. Ruardi-Laecha may be very few number in each unit (less than 30), and take a long time to train.
Anyway they are more historical than the 'Hounds of Culann' that seems to be featured in the xpack.
I should note that the Dal Riadans didn't use them, so it'd probably be best to have a different special elite for them, possibly Audheran-Laecha or Coricanneitae.
The first were elite spearmen, fought unarmored, covered themselves in a kind of white powder, and mostly relied on agility in combat.
Corcanneitae were also used by the men of Munster; they were 'naked fanatics', essentially. Would have an axe, shield, cloak, otherwise be naked.
Myrddraal
06-14-2005, 16:22
Sorry guys, but I've lost that map. Sorry if I got ur hopes up :oops:
No matter Myrddraal, thanks you anyway ~D
I think that your map wouln't be 100% compatible with BI, so we got to make a new one with the map of BI (lot of changes... maybe we can make it partially). Same issue for the units skins, but I think we can make a few ones this summer, we will see if we got skinners in the team !
Saxon Units
Some Saxon Units
Gesithas ("Companions")
These are the elite forces of the great Saxon kings and athelings. Handpicked young warriors given the very best equipment and fed from the lord’s table. They swear the mead-bargain with their lord, giving loyalty to the death in return for mead, wealth and land. It is considered the greatest disgrace to live if your lord dies, and such men will be condemned to live as exiles. As a result, these units have exceptional morale, and will fight to the death rather than retreat unless their lord orders it.
(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, mail shirts and helms, all decorated to mark them out from lesser units)
Heorthgeneats ("Hearth-Friends")
This unit represents the hearth-troops of the eorldermen of the land – these nobles are usually chosen from the veterans of the king’s gesithas, and administer land and raise their own warbands. While not as well equipped or skilled as the king’s warriors, these men swear the same oaths to their own lords. They form an elite core of Saxon armies.
(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, some armour and helms. Noble, but not as spectacular looking as above.)
Duguth (Older Warriors)
Thegns are the lowest rank of landholding noble in Saxon society, and are usually either born into the role or chosen from their earl’s warband. They raise their own retinues of warriors, and bring them to battle when their lord calls. These men represent the older veterans of such a warband. They are not all that well equipped or fast, but they are stubborn and excellent at holding the line.
(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, lang-seaxes and helms)
Geoguth (Younger Warriors)
These men are the younger, unmarried warriors of the warbands of the land’s thegns. They are fierce and aggressive, hoping to make a name for themselves and win great rewards from their lord. What they lack in experience, they make up for in enthusiasm. They throw their javelins before engaging the enemy in hand to hand combat.
(Light infantry with spears, shields, helms, javelins and seaxes)
Ceorls ("Peasants")
Ceorls are the ordinary freemen and farmers of Saxon society. They are only very rarely called up to fight, usually only in times of emergency. They are all trained to some degree, as all Saxon freemen own and practice with weapons, but they cannot be expected to hold professional troops for long. They are at their best when standing in a shield wall adding weight to more experienced troops or outflanking the enemy.
(Light Infantry with spears, shields and seaxes, Phrygian hats)
Geburs ("Serfs")
Poorer freemen are mustered for battle with whatever poor weapons they have. Usually they are employed as unarmoured skirmishers, using slings. Some may also carry javelins or staff slings (possibility for more units). They are fast runners, and most live as hunters or fishermen so are quite good at using the terrain to their advantage. Their morale is fragile though, and they cannot be expected to fight hand to hand – that is work for men of noble birth!
(Light infantry with slings and seaxes, Phrygian hats)
Wulfbyrne ("Wolf-shirts")
Since the early days of the German tribes right through to the Viking age, the northern peoples have a tradition of fanatical warriors dedicated to Woden, the god of war and slaughter. These men are utter fanatics who believe themselves invulnerable to weapons, and run into battle wearing only the pelts of wolves. They are impetuous, ferocious and almost unequalled warriors, but there are only a few of them to be mustered. They are best used for breaking enemy shield walls so that other units can pour in behind them.
(Light infantry with wolf pelt cloaks, shields and battle-axes)
Wræccan ("Wanderers")
The Dark Ages are troubled times, and many bands of freebooters, pirates and outcasts from the Germanic tribes can be found across Europe looking for nobles to serve. Saxon kings frequently employ such bands – indeed, the king’s of the Gewissae began as leaders of such freebooting bands. They are savage, having nothing to lose, and experienced, but are treacherous and difficult to control.
(Light Infantry with shields, swords, helms and javelins)
Cnihtas ("Mounted Retainers")
Saxon nobles rode to battle, but dismounted to fight. There is good evidence though that they would remount to pursue the enemy. Because this is impossible in RTW, it may be worth having a cavalry unit available to the Saxons. These men are nobles, but cannot really be expected to do much fighting from horseback. They should only be used for harrying the flanks or pursuing fleeing enemies.
(Light Cavalry with shields and spears)
Other Ideas:
Scyldburh: The Saxons used two main battle formations – the shield wall was the main defensive one. It consisted of a long line of interlocked shields two or three ranks deep, something like the Testudo but with a long frontage.
Swinwecg: The swine-wedge is an offensive formation that can only really be formed by experienced troops. The leader is usually at the front – the “ordfruma” (point leader). The whole wedge simply charges forwards in an attempt to break through opposing ranks with sheer momentum, before the rest of the warriors widen the gap.
So there you go, don’t know how feasible all of this is, (the formations especially), but there you go – that’s a good Anglo-Saxon army list I reckon. The units are mostly accurate, and where they aren’t wholly accurate in terms of their equipment it’s been done to make them “feel” right – javelins for the Geoguth and not for the Duguth to make them a bit more offensive for instance. In reality most of these units could be equipped with javelins. I’m also busy thinking of some faction specific units. Speaking of which, here’s a quick list of Saxon factions:
Bernicians
Deirans
Angles
Saxons
Jutes
Gewissae (who will become the West Seaxe)
Very good work ! I update the unit list. ~D
But I think they would be only 2 or 3 germanic factions (plus franks and goths) : Angles, Saxons, Juts. There is a lot of differents tribes and kingdoms for each culture, and we got only 21 factions slots... for the moment I have put 19 factions, I don't know if we will keep the Goths in the south of the Loire. As far I know, Bernicians merge later, if possible at a certain date a strong army of Angles will attack Bryneich ~D
Eventually (if possible), we will have others factions as emerging one, if it is allowed in modding.
Otherwise we can put (for example) Gewissae units for the Saxons.
Ianofsmeg16
06-15-2005, 16:56
Hi!
I found evidence that Arthur was no king, but a prominent warlord. Mainly from talesins(sp??) poems Here... (http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/celtic/ctexts/tindex.html)
EDIT: I was thinking we could use my sig (the bit about arthur) as one of the quotes..its by an anonymous 14th century monk
Well, by saying Arthur was a High-King or the Amherawddyr of the Britons (=Imperator), but this mean the general of all the clans, successor of the romans 'dux bellorum'=warlord, more than one of those local king. I have written an article on who might be Arthur, but it is in french, and my english isn't as good as I can translate it ~D :
http://membres.lycos.fr/paladinceltique/Arthur.htm
Also, it seems that the Book of Taliesin wasn't the work of Taliesin himself : the manuscript is from the XIIth century, and the form of poetry remains from the VIIIth century.
:medievalcheers:
For your sig, no matter ~D Mine does too, and we have a lot of differents quotes we can use !
So what's the start date for this mod, and does it cover all of Europe? I thought it would just be Britain and surrounding islands, which would allow you to do pretty much all of the important British kingdoms.
And yeah, Bernicia is officially founded in 547 by Ida, but his grandfather, Eossa, is mentioned in a number of Arthurian sources under the name Ossa the Knifeman or Osla Bigknife, and Vortigern is supposed to have settled Octha and his mercenary bands somewhere in the north, so it's reasonable to assume that the Angles had been there for some time.
Start date : 480 AD
Game area will be something like this :
http://img162.echo.cx/img162/3163/map49oj.jpg
So Britain, Ireland, and a part of Gaul (including Brittany, very important !).
I got my exams results and I pass in second year of medecine studies, so I will probably lead the project to the end ~D
Don't forgot that we have to complete most part of historical research until this autumn :dizzy2:
Myrddraal
06-21-2005, 19:16
Good on u :smile: Good to hear you'll be staying on the mod too.
Ianofsmeg16
06-21-2005, 22:17
great job! i knew the french must have been good at sumthing other than getting beaten by the british (joke lol)
Some questions about the Picts.
- There is historical accurency that Picts were divided into 'Northern' and 'Southern', but Northern Picts seemed to have been a very poor nation without a great importance. Gameplay speaking, I don't think it is very interesting to keep 2 Picts factions, for that the Northern Picts will have poor territories and will be beaten by the Southern Picts quickly.
What do you think of that ?
- I am currently reading 'Pictish Warrior' from Osprey Books. Shall we put Pictish with tattoos, and nude warriors for them ? Not all Picts units naked but one or two.
Ianofsmeg16
06-24-2005, 19:58
I checked out the picts and it seems historically accurate to only have a southern faction...the south took over the north in 697 check it out here... (http://www.kessler-web.co.uk/History/KingListsBritain/GaelsPictland.htm)
and also names for towns.....these are some in roman and some as british
Provincial Capital
LONDINIVM AVGVSTA (London, Greater London)
Roman Coloniae
CAMVLODVNVM (Colchester, Essex)
EBVRACVM (York, Yorkshire)
GLEVVM (Gloucester, Gloucestershire)
LINDVM (Lincoln, Lincolnshire)
British Tribal Cities
CAESAROMAGVS [TRINOVANTVM] (Chelmsford, Essex)
CALLEVA ATREBATVM (Silchester, Hampshire)
CORINIVM DOBVNNORVM (Cirencester, Gloucestershire)
DVRNOVARIA [DVROTRIGVM] (Dorchester, Dorset)
DVROVERNVM CANTIACORVM (Canterbury, Kent)
ISCA DVMNONIORVM (Exeter, Devon)
ISVRIVM BRIGANTVM (Aldborough, North Yorkshire)
MORIDVNVM [DEMETARVM] (Carmarthen, Dyfed)
NOVIOMAGVS REGNORVM (Chichester, West Sussex)
PETVARIA [PARISORVM] (Brough on Humber, Humberside)
RATAE CORIELTAVORVM (Leicester, Leicestershire)
VENTA BELGARVM (Winchester, Hampshire)
VENTA ICENORVM (Caistor St. Edmund, Norfolk)
VENTA SILURUM (Caerwent, Gwent)
VERVLAMIVM [CATVVELLORVM] (St. Albans, Hertfordshire)
VIROCONIVM CORNOVIORVM (Wroxeter, Shropshire)
Roman Spa Towns
AQVAE ARNEMETIAE (Buxton, Derbyshire)
AQVAE SVLIS (Bath, Avon)
Burgi - 4th Century Fortified Towns
BANNAVENTA (Whilton Lodge, Northamptonshire)
BANNOVALVM (Horncastle, Lincolnshire)
CLAVSENTVM (Bitterne, Hampshire)
LETOCETVM (Wall, Staffordshire)
MANDVESSEDVM (Mancetter, Warwickshire)
PENNOCRVCIVM (Water Eaton, Staffordshire)
TRIPONTIVM (Cave's Inn, Warwickshire)
VXACONA (Redhill, Shropshire)
Caistor (Lincolnshire)
Other Towns and Settlements with Latin Names
ABONA (Sea Mills, Avon)
AD PONTEM (East Stoke, Nottinghamshire)
ALABVM (Llandovery, Dyfed)
ARDOTALIA (Melandra Castle, Derbyshire)
ARICONIVM (Weston-under-Penyard, Hereford & Worcester)
BOVIVM (Tilston, Cheshire)
BRANODVNVM (Brancaster, Norfolk)
BRAVONIVM (Leintwardine, Hereford & Worcester)
BREMETENACVM VETERANORVM (Ribchester, Lancashire)
BREMIA (Llanio, Dyfed)
BVRRIVM (Usk, Gwent)
CALACVM (Burrow in Lonsdale, Lancashire)
CALCARIA (Tadcaster, North Yorkshire)
CAMBORITVM (Lackford, Suffolk)
CAMBODVNVM (Slack, West Yorkshire)
CANONIVM (Kelvedon, Essex)
CANOVIVM (Caerhun, Gwynedd)
CATARACTONIVM (Catterick, North Yorkshire)
CAVSENNAE (Ancaster, Lincolnshire)
CICVCIVM (Y Gaer, Powys)
COCCIVM (Wigan, Lancashire)
COMBRETOVIVM (Baylham House, Suffolk)
CONDATE (Northwich, Cheshire)
CROCOCALANA (Brough, Nottinghamshire)
CVNETIO (Mildenhall, Wiltshire)
DANVM (Doncaster, South Yorkshire)
DERVENTIO [CORITANORVM] (Littlechester, Derbyshire)
DERVENTIO [BRIGANTVM] (Malton, North Yorkshire)
DEVA (Chester, Cheshire)
PORTVS DVBRIS (Dover, Kent)
DVROBRIVAE [CANTIACORVM] (Rochester, Kent)
DVROBRIVAE [CATVVELLORVM] (Water Newton, Cambridgeshire)
DVROCOBRIVIS (Dunstable, Bedfordshire)
DVROCORNOVIVM (Wanborough, Wiltshire)
DVROLIPONTE (Cambridge, Cambridgeshire)
DVROVIGVTVM (Godmanchester, Cambridgeshire)
GARIANNVM (Burgh Castle, Norfolk)
GOBANNIVM (Abergavenny, Gwent)
ISCA SILVRVM (Caerleon, Gwent)
LACTODVRVM (Towcester, Northamptonshire)
LAGENTIVM (Castleford, West Yorkshire)
PORTVS LEMANIS (Lympne, Kent)
LEVCARVM (Loughor, West Glamorgan)
LEVCOMAGVS (East Anton, Hampshire)
LEVOBRINTA (Forden Gaer, Powys)
LINDINIS (Ilchester, Somerset)
LVENTINVM (Pumsaint, Dyfed)
LVTVDARVM (Crich, Derbyshire)
MAGIOVINIVM (Dropshort, Buckinghamshire)
MAGLONA (Pennal, Gwynedd)#
MAGNIS (Kenchester, Hereford & Worcester)
MAMVCIVM (Manchester, Greater Manchester)
MARGIDVNVM (Castle Hill, Nottinghamshire)
MEDIOLANVM (Whitchurch, Shropshire)
NAVIO (Brough, Derbyshire)
NIDVM (Neath, West Glamorgan)
NOVIOMAGVS CANTIACORVM (Crayford, Greater London)
OLENACVM (Elslack, North Yorkshire)
PONTES (Staines, Surrey)
REGVLBIVM (Reculver, Kent)
RIGODVNVM (Castleshaw, Greater Manchester)
RVTVNIVM (Harcourt Park, Shropshire)
RVTVPIAE (Richborough, Kent)
SALINAE [DOBVNNORVM] (Droitwich Spa, Hereford & Worcester)
SALINAE [CORNOVIORVM] (Middlewich, Cheshire)
SEGELOCVM (Littleborough, Nottinghamshire)
SEGONTIVM (Caernarfon, Gwynedd)
SORVIODVNVM (Old Sarum, Wiltshire)
SVLLONIACIS (Brockley Hill, Greater London)
VAGNIACIS (Springhead, Kent)
VENONIS (High Cross, Leicestershire)
VERBEIA (Ilkley, West Yorkshire)
VERLVCIO (Sandy Lane, Wiltshire)
VERNEMETVM (Willoughby, Nottinghamshire)
VERTIS (Worcester, Hereford & Worcester)
VINDOCLADIA (Badbury, Dorset)
VIROSIDVM (Brough by Bainbridge, North Yorkshire)
The British Islands
ICTIS (St. Michael's Mount, Cornwall)
MONA (Anglesey/Ynys Môn, Gwynedd)
VECTIS (Isle of Wight, Hampshire)
TANATVS (Thanet, Kent)
MANAU (Isle of Man)
CountMRVHS
06-25-2005, 18:11
Just wondering how you guys plan on implementing religion in this mod? I guess it all depends on how BI works -- if they allow for Conversion, for example -- but the basic problem as I see it is that the Anglo-Saxons will be pagan at the start and Christian at the end.
As a side note, I'm revisiting making an Arthurian-era mod for VI, using the Viking campaign map because I don't know how to make my own campmaps. Have any of you considered working on a MTW:VI version of this era, or do you know of anyone else who's done so already? If anyone knows how to make a campmap, for example ..... ~D ...
At any rate, it will be interesting. I'll be following your work; best of luck!
CountMRVHS
@Ian : very interesting !!! I will update the list with some names that miss, there you have found all the romans 'civitas'. I will split Domnonia into 2-3 regions, it need to be a strong kingdom (I got some PC problems so I will do it latter).
@CountMRVHS : as far as I have read, BI will features multiple religions, conversions, etc (read the differents previews), it will be something like as it was in MTW.
For an Arthurian mod for VI, see Thrashaholic : he PM me to help us, because he have worked on a such mod ~D
Ianofsmeg16
06-27-2005, 16:35
Hey guys listen!
we need to get some work done on this mod, i know the plan was to wait for BI but that is still quite a while away, does anybody know a skinner/moddler? because if we can get some units done more people will join the mod, we may even get our own sub-forum in the hosted mods section, but only if we get some work done, here's what i can do...
I can edit positions, names and areas of provinces
I can do basic Campaign map editing, e.g. making islands bigger or adding a load of land and incorperating it into that province
I can also edit faction names
here's what i can't do
Model, skin, faction banners, loading screens
What can you people do apart from historical info, soz if i sound p****d off it's just we need to get work done or this great mod idea will die...plus i have tests tomorrow in Biology, physics, chemistry and my maths test is on wednesday (for my mock GCSE's)
Interesting link on warfare during Arthurian age : http://www.georgetown.edu/users/kammerb/combat.htm
I have read 'Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars' and 'Pictish Warrior' from Osprey books. I can scan some pictures later (when I got my PC back).
I will order Arthur's Britain (Leslie Alcock) and Age of Arthur (John Morris) later, but reading in a foreign language is tiring ~D
CountMRVHS
06-28-2005, 12:55
I have all of the above books as well, except for the John Morris one.
Another book I found very interesting is Geoffrey Ashe, The Kings and Queens of Early Britain. There's a significant section on the post-roman period leading up to Arthur, a big section on theories of Arthur himself, and so on into the Anglo-Saxon period.
Ashe's thesis is that Arthur can be best identified with Riothamus, a 5th-century "high king" from Britain who went across the channel into Gaul to give military assistance against the Franks, I believe. That's not the angle you guys are taking, but it's interesting anyway for the period references.
Yeah I know Ashe's work, but for me Riothamus=Ambrosius Aurelianus=Emrys Gwledig, the brother of Uther Pendragon and the uncle of Arthur ~D
We don't have good books like this in french (except those focused on Brittany like 'Origines de la Bretagne' by Léon Fleuriot) so I had to do with the english ones :crown:
Some very nice images from the arthurian era re-enactment group 'Britannia' :
http://www.durolitum.co.uk/images/gallery/parley.jpg
http://www.durolitum.co.uk/images/gallery/cavalry1.jpg
More at http://www.durolitum.co.uk/imageindex.htm
I think we may contact them to work with them ~D
I can do the same with others groups of the Dark Ages, but continental ones (The French 'Foederati' and the Belgian 'II Herculanii').
Pictish Units
Due to a paucity of information about Pictish social organisation, I have used a lot of conjecture here. Many of my unit descriptions are based on soldiers shown on various Pictish carved stones, especially the Aberlemno stone which shows a three line battle formation of swordsmen, pikemen and javelineers (or what may be javelineers). The names are a problem, as sadly reconstructing the lost Pictish language is far beyond my meagre talents.
Schiltron
Drawn from the ranks of freemen, farmers and other common folk, the Pictish schiltron would form a formidable wall of spears on the battlefield. They used long spears, shields slung over their shoulders, but went otherwise unarmoured. They fought in a phalanx, and while not elite professionals can be counted upon to give a good account of themselves.
(Heavy infantry, unarmoured, with round shields slung over their shoulders and long two-handed spears)
Swordsmen
The sons of wealthy freeholders and minor nobles, Pictish swordsmen are fast and skilful. They are not great defensive troops, as they lack armour or large shields, but they are deadly with their bucklers and short swords when used to attack in open order, and especially when closely supported by the spears of the poorer freemen. They can also be used as effective ambushers, being good at hiding and fast runners.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with “H” shaped bucklers, short swords and posher tunics than the above unit.)
Youths
Men too young to fight in the schiltron stand at the back and support their elders with a hail of javelins. They carry shields and can fight with their short spears if pressed, but they are relatively weak and their morale is brittle. They are fast runners though, and make good ambushers.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with round bucklers and a bundle of javelins. Fight in hand to hand with a short spear.)
Axemen
Some freemen fight in less of a tight formation than the schiltron, wielding short Pictish axes and bucklers. They are fierce, but they do not have the morale of professional troops. They are fast, good at hiding, and make excellent raiders. They are not so good at defending themselves or holding a line though.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with “H” shaped bucklers, javelins and “T-Bar” axes.)
Horsemen
Picts were very proud of their horses, though only the rich could afford one, and were excellent cavalrymen. These men form the retinues of the minor nobles and are a versatile force in battle, able to harass the enemy with their javelins before closing in to fight hand to hand.
(Light cavalry, unarmoured with round bucklers, javelins and spears.)
Heavy Horse
Though never shown in Pictish art, it is probable that the kings and mormaers (high nobles) went into battle armoured and heavily armed. These men form the bodyguards of royalty and the rulers of the land, and fight as heavily armoured shock cavalry.
(Heavy cavalry, mailed with round bucklers, javelins and spears or swords.)
Northern Warriors
The northern Picts remained pagan for many years longer than their southern cousins, and may have retained somewhat different traditions. They are usually shown with shorter spears, and it may be that the rought terrain of Caithness and Orkney forbids the use of the formidable schiltron, encouraging these ferocious warriors to use looser formations.
(Light infantry, long fringed robes, square bucklers, javelins and spears.
Huntsmen
The Picts were very fond of hunting, and it is possible that units of huntsmen would have been drawn up and used to ambush important enemies in battle. These men are fast, lightly equipped, superb at hiding in almost any terrain and very accurate. They may have used a form of crossbow, though this would not have been the armour-piercing weapon of the middle ages but an accurate hunting bow.
(Light infantry, hooded mantle, crossbow.)
Other Stuff:
Various other sources can be used to suggest Pictish units, but most are at best somewhat spurious. One stone shows large dogs accompanying armed warriors, but whether they are intended to be “war dogs” or the stone in depicting a hunting expedition is doubtful. Figures wearing animal masks or pelts are also common, though again whether they are mythical figures or represent some kind of cult activity or a special class of warrior is uncertain.
http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/picts/graphics/smallpict.jpg An Orkney Pict, represented in the unit list as the northern warriors
http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/img/pictish_line.jpg From a scummy website, I'm afraid, but the picture shows more northern picts with their characteristioc curled hair and pointy beards.
http://www.pictavia.org/A&S/weapons/media/benvie.jpg Pictish horsemen.
http://www.pictavia.org/A&S/weapons/media/aberk1.jpg The famous Aberlemno stone, depicting the Picts in battle on the left. The three line battle formation in the middle shows the possible "schiltron" formation with swordsmen out in front, pikemen behind and javelin armed men at the back, although the spearman at the rear may be a supporting rank - it's pretty unclear.
http://www.pictarts.demon.co.uk/bin/guide/images/drosten3.jpg The crossbowman is in the bottom left in the characteristic heavily hooded mantle.
Note that none of the Picts in any of their own representations wear helmets or any form of apparent body armour, but they are NOT naked. I'll see if I can scan in any images from the Osprey Pictish Warriors book as well, though I'll have to find somewhere to host them.
Good job Spongly ! Ranika may post something to comment your unit ideas. When I will got my PC back I will scan some Osprey images.
The Pict 'crossbow' is actually more than likely an arcuballista; it's one of the things they most commonly traded for or looted from dead Romans. Other than that, I don't have too much to say about the list. It looks alright to me. Some Pict military words (though probably corrupted by Gaelic, since Gaelic speaking authors kept them):
Ludo - Possibly related to 'kluddo', this is a sword...possibly
-luma - Suffix meaning 'one who carries'; so, 'Ludoluma' would be 'one who carries a sword'; the plural is -lom, so 'Ludolom' would be 'those who carry swords'...possibly
Gair - Almost surely related to 'gae', a spear
Cho or Tho - Not sure, think it's an axe or cudgel
Marchan - Probably related to Myrcharn or Marc, horsemen
Saoig - From the early Gaelic 'saigh', a bow
-daoer - From the early Gaelic 'deoir', suffix meaning soldiers or warriors; a 'saoigdaoer' would be archers, 'ludodaoer' would be swordsmen, etc.
Mind you, these are all inferences from the best of my understanding of the scant little we know (we've learned more in the past two years, but that's not saying much, considering we still know next to nothing).
I have just update unit lists with those pictish units.
Ianofsmeg16
07-09-2005, 18:50
Hey guys listen!
we need to get some work done on this mod, i know the plan was to wait for BI but that is still quite a while away, does anybody know a skinner/moddler? because if we can get some units done more people will join the mod, we may even get our own sub-forum in the hosted mods section, but only if we get some work done, here's what i can do...
I can edit positions, names and areas of provinces
I can do basic Campaign map editing, e.g. making islands bigger or adding a load of land and incorperating it into that province
I can also edit faction names
here's what i can't do
Model, skin, faction banners, loading screens
What can you people do apart from historical info, soz if i sound p****d off it's just we need to get work done or this great mod idea will die...plus i have tests tomorrow in Biology, physics, chemistry and my maths test is on wednesday (for my mock GCSE's)
Did anybody listen to this or was i just blabbing on to myself, seriosly though does anybody know of a skinner or moddler tht'll help us?
Dark_shadow89 of the Age of Vikings and Fanatics team have scanned some Osprey pictures (from Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars), have a look at the first three pictures (Saxons, Irish and Picts).
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=50622
Another image of this book, present on the frontcover showing a Briton cavalryman with some footmen.
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/Q5480AL.JPG
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php?title=Q5480&ser=MAA
dark_shadow89
07-11-2005, 10:27
Glad to see i'm indirectly helping another mod ;)
Faction discussion :
- I think Wisigoths will not stay a playable faction. In the mod they will have only small territories (see the map), and historically those territories were loose to the Francs quickly. So on the continent they will be two factions, the Britons of Domnonia and the Franks (maybe splitted into differents factions if possible), each faction will own several territories at beginning, but they will be a lot of rebels territories.
- For others germanics faction, would you rather like to keep the actual situation (Angles, Saxons and Juts), or to had more factions (Gaewassae, Bernicians...) or to get ride of the Juts by making them rebels ?
Provinces discussion :
- As you can see we lack a lot of cities for our provinces. We will had others provinces maybe.
- So we need : province ideas, capital suggestions for each provinces (thought we can use 'generic' names like Caer xxx for the Britons, Dun xxx for the Gaels or the suffix -ichean for the Picts).
- I don't know if our provinces for the Saxons are accurate at the beginning of the game.
Unit discussion :
- Unit list is going to be complete, Ranika will translate some names for the Britons units.
- But we need more ideas for unique units for each factions (exemple the Domnonian cavalry for the Domnonians, or the Llydaw Blackshields), we need units for the Franks, and suggestions for mercenaries units.
We need skinners to make our first skins ! Units who will have the 'shieldwall' hability will be build only with BI models but for the moment we can make cavalry, archers, swordmen, axemen...
So if you want to help us by doing some skins (and models of course !) please PM me or answer there.
An interesting thread on the Fall of Rome mod forum :
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4150
Ideas for mercenary units:
Frisian Pirates
Frankish Mercenaries
Wraeccan (as per the Saxon unit list)
Armorican Cavalry
Dunno about Celtic mercenary types, but I'm pretty sure outlaws, exiles and other nasty sorts would probably have sold their swords to the highest bidder.
As for the Franks, I could probably do a bit of poking about and look into early Frankish armies. Not sure if they were organised along similar lines to early Saxon armies, but I'd imagine they were based around a king and his bodyguard with assorted tribal levies supporting them. Lots of throwing axes and a bit more cavalry than the Saxons.
Nice ~D
We have the Llydaw Cavalry for the Armorican cavalry, it will be a unique unit recruitable by the Britons in Brittany (also the Llydaw's blackshields for infantry).
For the Franks, they may have been more romanised than the Saxons, the Romans used a lot of them to gard the limes as foederati. I know a french re-enactement group named after that 'foederati', featuring late romans soldiers and frankish warriors, may I can ask them to help us ~D
Anyway I'm waiting your suggestions Spongly ;)
Merovingian armies seem to have been organised along similar lines to other Early Germanic armies – the king and his personal retinue, along with the “counts” and their war bands, with a general levy of all the able bodied men to support them. Again I have no idea about names, though I could probably post something on the proto-Germanic mailing list and ask…
King’s Warband: Clovis or any of his sons/brothers would probably command a bodyguard of heavy cavalry, armoured in chainmail with shields, helms, spears and swords. They would actually be able to dismount and fight on foot as well, but as this isn’t possible in RTW they should probably be cavalrymen, if only to differentiate them from the Saxons.
Count’s Warband: Again, like the Saxon units, just lesser versions of the above troops – elite warriors sworn to a powerful nobleman and armed and equipped from his pocket.
Household Troops: Footmen raised and equipped from the pockets of the powerful nobles and kings of the Franks. After they captured Soissons the Franks had access to Roman arms factories and could equip their men better than most Germans. Chainmail, shields, spears, helms and throwing axes. Sturdy heavy infantry.
Foederati: Frankish warriors who have served in the Roman army, equipped in a slightly Roman style. Chainmail, angons, helms, swords and shields. Very good attackers who throw their angons before charging.
Frankish Warriors: Tribal warriors, unarmoured but armed with shields, spears and throwing axes. A fierce barbarian levy, not organised or with great morale, but fairly nasty on the offensive.
Frankish Freemen: Poor tribesmen who have few weapons – perhaps they could be two units, one with bows and one with javelins. Certainly the Franks were hunters and trappers, and could have equipped a fair bundle of bowmen.
To see better what we need in terms of cities for each provinces, this is a list (have a look at the other one to see if all names are correct) of the provinces who need a capital :
BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - ?
- Fidach - ?
- Ce - ?
- Circind - ?
- Fotla - ?
- Fortiu - ?
- Fib - ?
- Orkney - ?
BRITAIN, Saxons :
- Regia - ?
- Sussex - ?
- Wessex - ?
- Kent (Juts) - Canterbury
- Tanet Island (Juts) - ?
- Essex - Colchester
- Colun?
BRITAIN, Angles :
- Anglia - ?
- Fens - ?
- Mercia - ?
- Lindsey - ?
- Deira - ?
names with * are in Latin, I'd rather like celtic names if possible.
I have found some names for the Franks :
- Anstrustions : the elite of the Frankish armies, that form the personnal gard of the king, it correspond to your king's warband ~D
- Nutriti 'the feed' : young nobles that are feed and trained at the king's court.
- Scara : mean 'army'.
Some images at :
http://clionide.free.fr/Pouvoir_fonctions.htm
http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/games/articles/DBA/II72EarlyFranks/
I have take a look at a few sites on the Frankish history and I think we have to decide one thing.
If we want historical accurancy for the Franks, we have to extend the map eastward and southward and add others factions like :
- The Wisigoths (or the Aquitains who replace them later) who control Aquitaine, Provence (and also Spain but it's a bit too south).
- The Burgondi who own east Gaul
- The Alemani who control actual Alsace
- eventually the Kingdom of Syagrius, who was one of the last Roman in Gaul, but beaten by Clovis in 486...
otherwise the Franks, thought staying playable, will be essentially an adversary for the continental Britons, thought Clovis allowed them to install in West Armorica in 495, Franks and Bretons became ennemis around 550.
The most common Gaelic mercenaries were Gasraidha (literally 'Rabble'); they were generally criminals who had been kicked out of their tribes. They would be ill-equipped, unreliable, but available in large number for very little; they'd also actually be found more outside of Ireland than inside. While criminals were hired sometime in a pinch, most of the time law-abiding Gaels were more than happy to just kill them, so they usually took foreign employment. There were also Babuanna ('Paid Fighters'), who were professional mercenaries; they would be much better equipped and trained, and far less likely to flee, but also more rare, and more common in Ireland than outside of Ireland. The average Celtic mercenary, in general, was a criminal, though professional bands had existed as long as anyone is writing about the Celts (such as the iron age Gaesatae of Gaul; they were professional mercenaries). However, criminals were the most common. Celtic law expelled criminals from their tribes, so they had to seek employment doing anything they could to ensure they could eat. Many of them, sometimes even MOST of them, sought employment as mercenaries. Celtic pirates were also mercenaries often, but piracy was a usual part of a Celtic war, so pirates weren't viewed as criminals (unless they were performing criminal acts to the kingdom that is supposed to be supporting them).
I was thinking about a big problem for the game : the potentiel strengh of the Domnonian faction.
They will own Domnonia, Durotrigia, Kernyw, Glastenning, Baddan, Ynis Weith, Gloui, Gwinntguic, Ceri, Celomion and Lundein in South Britain, plus eventually Gwent, Glywising, Ergyng and Dyfed in Wales ; and on the continent Brittany.
So I plan to : make Gwent as a playable faction and share Brittany between one or two Briton factions, by giving per example Cornouailles to the Gwent, plus make east territories of Domnonia difficult to defend when facing the Saxons.
Would you want Dyfed as another faction ? Hoping that we will have 21 factions slots (or more) in BI...
Finally I think we have to keep Wisigoths/Aquitaine as a faction, and so extend the map a little southward... the Burgondi, Alemani, Frisons and Syagrius Kindgom will be rebels (maybe with important armies, otherwise the Francs will be too powerful quickly). After all the mod is called 'Arthurian : Total War' ; not 'Clovis : Total War' ~D
We can also begin to think of what symbols each faction will have.
Ok, I have done a lot of search this day and completed the list of Britons cities. See https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=810478&postcount=43 for the list.
Finally (I know I am discussing with myself for a longtime ~D ) we will keep the actual solution for the continent, featuring Britons, Franks and Wisigoths/Aquitains.
I have add Dyfed and Gwent to the faction list, Dyfed will own Cornouailles in Brittany, Domnonia will own Domnonée and Gwent will own Bro-Erec.
Franks and Wisigoths will stay playable but only a part of Gaul will be available in the map, so this two factions are only a challenge for the continental Britons, we have to keep in mind that this mod is focused on Britain... except if BI allow us to put more than 21 factions ingame but it is not even sure that there will be 21 factions slots remaining in BI (know that sucks, but there is a lot of interesting features in BI indead).
An updtated unit list, I have put the descriptions within ~:)
UNIT LIST
* Here we have to find others ideas, and to change generic names and standart unit 'heavy spearmen', an others, by more historical ones.
* I also need ideas for regional units (like Domnonian cavalry or Llydaw Blackshields)
* I added some images (mainly from DBA and Osprey) to some units. There are only here to show you an idea of those units, you can post some if you had.
Pictures will be remplaced by screenshots when the skins will be done.
BRITONS UNITS : (Agraes, Ranika, Trashaholic & Ian)
Cavalry :
https://img364.imageshack.us/img364/949/britonmarchomawr0qp.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Marchomawr (Heavy cavalry)
Britons were well known in the dark ages for their cavalry. In the poem 'y Gododdin', by the bard Aneurin, 300 British horsemen fought Angle invaders at Cathraeth in the kingdom of Gododdin and only one returned, Aneurin himself. The Machromawr are made up of men from the richest warrior households who can afford a good horse, a spatha, a round shield, a spangelhelm and chain mail or scale armour. These well armoured powerful horsemen make a formidable opponent, but must be commanded correctly to be truly devestating in battle.
(Very expensive, strong charge, good attack, good defense, small unit, sword or/and spear, scale or chain mail armor, spangelhem, red cloack, round shield).
https://img364.imageshack.us/img364/2517/britonmarcacontwn3un.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Marca Contwn (Contus cavalry)
The Romans, who occupied Britain before the Aurthurian period, recuited soldiers from all over their empire. Part of the Roman garrison in Britain was from Sarmatia whose heavy cavalry was of a very high quality. Some historians theorise that Aurthur and his kinghts were actually Sarmatian horse-warriors themselves. The naturally skilled horsemen of the Sarmatian steppes heavily influenced British cavalry, inspiring some soldiers to fight as an almost Carbon-copy of them. They had a long lance-like spear, the 'Contus', which, due to its length, meant they wore their sheilds on their backs. They were also wore heavy scale armour, and so were a very effective heavy shock cavalry.
https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/2241/britonmarchogluoedd7dd.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Marchogluoedd (Light cavalry)
Britain's wide variety of landscapes meant certain kingdoms, where the land was flatter and more horse-friendly, employed very cavalry oriented armies; the Marchogluoedd were the fast agile scouts of these armies. Riding the fastest horses their land could muster, these lightly armed and lightly armoured warriors would rush ahead of the main host peppering the enemies with javelins and making careful observations and reporting enemy positions to their commanders. These scouts wore no armour and carried no weapons apart from their javelins, which could of course act as improvised spears, as such they sould be kept as far away from combat as possible.
https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/9892/britonmarcadumonyna3dx.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Marca Dumonyna (Domnonia cavalry)
need to control Domnonia
The wealth, fertile soil and landscape of Dumnonia (modernday Devon, South West England) allowed the locals to breed horses that weren't just beasts of burden; they bred powerful warhorses and became renowned for their horsemanship in the field of battle. Dumnonia is supposedly the setting for Camelot and their cavalry no doubt inspiring the legends of Arthur and his knights (some even claim that Arthur was a Dumnonian warlord). The Marca Dumonyna wore chain mail (or scale) and red cloaks and carried a spear, a sword, a round shield and a spangelhelm; they can only be recruited in Dumnonia.
Marca Llydaw (Llydaw cavalry) (need to control Brittany)
The Britons in Brittany, or Llydaw as it was also known, were famed horsemen and recruited powerful cavalry that were pivotal in the numerous Breton victories over the Franks. The warriors of Llydaw were known for their distinctive black shields and their cavalry for their destructive hit and run javelin attacks. The Llydaw cavalry wore white cloaks and equipped their famous black round shield as well as javelins and a sword, unfortunately for any budding emporer they could only be recruited in Brittany, meaning they must be conquered and subdued before joining any foreign nation's army, a tough task indeed.
Spangelhem, white cloack, black round shield, javelins, sword.
Teulu
Literally meaning “family”, the Teulu were the professional noble bodyguards of individual princes and chieftains. Although cavalry are generally not best suited to the rough hilly and mountainous terrain of Britain, the Teulu often rode into battle. Being of the nobility, the Teulu could afford the best of military equipment and were very well armed by Celtic standards: they wore chain or scale mail and helmets, and carried a shield and a lance, making them a pivotal force on the battlefield.
Strong charge
Very good Attack
Good Morale
Armoured
(Should be pretty expensive)
Infrantry :
Rherel (Heavy spearmen)
Gwaywffynabwre (clan spearmen)
Bonheddwyr
The Bonheddwyr were free nobles, the elite foot soldiers of a Chieftain’s armies. Before a battle these champions would often walk forward in front of their army insulting, taunting and challenging their opposition (much to the amusement of their fellows), and be accompanied by shouting and jeering from the lower ranking men, and the din of their war trumpets. The Bonheddwr were lightly armoured, and the individual carried a spear, a small round shield and several javelins into battle.
40 man unit
fast
strong charge
very good attack
good defence
armoured
good morale
https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/825/britonrhyfelwyrmawr4hz.jpg (https://imageshack.us) https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/8460/britonrhyfelwyrmawr29pj.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Rhyfelwyrmawr
"Great Warriors"
Aeson Llydaw (Llydaw Blackshields)
need to control Brittany
The Brythonic nations were renowned for the ferocity and skill of their warriors, and the British exiles in Brittany, or Lldaw as it was also known, were no exception. Breton use of a combination of mobile cavalry and powerful infantry, such as the Aeson Llydaw, provided them with numerous victories over enemies like the Franks. Like their hore riding counterparts they equipped round black sheilds and a variety of weapons, and like them could only be recruited in Brittany itself.
Bêrfelawre Merionydd (Merionydd long spearmen)
The spear was the weapon of choice in Wales, with those from the North being particularly skilled in its use. The men of the Merionydd area of Gwynedd were renowned throughout for their superb ability with the spear. The general consensus amongst the Welsh was: “the longer the spear the better”, and as such the men of Merionydd carried spears as long as pikes. As well as their pikes, they had small round shields and fought in Phalanx-like formations.
60 man unit (best in deep formations etc.),
fast,
good defence
weak attack,
no armour
only available in Gwynydd
Arwrweision
Literally mean ‘brave men’, the Arwrweision are the veterans of numerous battles, they are the non-noble elite of a British Chieftain’s army. It was considered an honour amongst Britons to be drafted into military service, so all able-bodied men had a weapon and were up for a fight. Carrying similar equipment to their fellow peasants, swords, bows and shields, the defining characteristic of the Arwrweision is that, although they share their comrade’s eagerness for battle, they don’t share their eagerness to run away.
60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
very good morale
https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/236/britonaulue2uw.jpg (https://imageshack.us) https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/4971/britonaulue21ru.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Aulue (Town Militia)
It was a legal obligation for all men over a certain age to fight when required in Briton kingdoms, indeed most, if not all, saw it as a great privilage and were eager for battle. Many kept their own weapons so men could be rapidly form militia units (or Aulue) when their kingdom needed their service. They often fought surprisingly well, but were quick to turn tail and run if things were going badly. Briton militia units were neither well nor badly equipped and could hold their own in a fight, but a wise commander will note their limitations and not commit them against heavily armed elite troops.
Galweddyl Aulue (Gaelic levies)
need to control Dyfed, Ceredigion, Ynis Mona, Ireland or Gwynedd
Cleddyfcludwra (Sword carriers)
Milwre
'Soldiers'
Bêrfelawre (Long spearmen)
The Britons were particularly proficient in the use of the spear and those who were particularly skilled generally preferred spears of the longer variety. The tactics of these soldiers were similar to the phalanxes of Macedonia or the pike regiments of the Renaissance, tactics very effective against cavalry. The Bêrfelawre were generally part-time soldiers and due to the cumbersome nature of their weapons, their equipment was fairly basic: light armour, if any at all, and a small round shield.
Campwyrau (Champions)
Rherel Manau (Heavy Manx Spearmen)
The Isle of Man is a tiny Island that lies in a Strategic position in the middle of the Irish Sea, therefore All manner of peoples look at it with hunger. This could be seen as a downfall or a reason to flee yet Mannanan and his heirs re-worked the army, producing armoured spearmen to fend off the raiders that come from Ireland, Rheged and and Gwynedd.
These men are perfectly equipped to fight in the hills of Mann. Disciplined, well armoured yet agile, the Manx Spearmen make a living out of fighting for their existence. They are recruited from the nobles or families with enought money to buy the Chainmail and heavy spears they take into battle.
Bowmen and skirmishers :
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8975/britonsaethwre6ya.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Saethwre (bowmen)
Rhyfelwyr
"Warrior"
Constant in fighting between the petty kingdoms of post-Roman Britain and skirmishes with the English led to the Britons becoming accustomed to war, they became a “jack of all trades”, perfectly suited to irregular warfare. Carrying a powerful bow, that could pin a horseman’s leg to his horse, a large sword and a small round shield, the prominent tactics of the Britons were to ambush the enemy, pepper them with arrows and then charge in for the kill.
60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
poor morale
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/54/britonardu2ru.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Ardu (Levies)
Fwnmilwre (Slingers)
The sling is one of the oldest and simplest weapons there is and was a favourite of the pre-Roman Britons. In the times of Arthur the bow was becoming more popular, but due to the simplicity of its construction and use, and the huge availability of ammunition, the sling was still widely used. In many ways a sling could out perform a bow and commanders would be foolish to ingore their usefullness on the battlefield. Other than their slings, the fwnmilwre (slingers) were lightly armed and would not last long in close combat.
https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3734/britonhelwyr1pb.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Helwyr
"Huntsmen"
The Welsh people were keen huntsmen and used the hunt to practice the skills needed in battle. There are numerous Welsh stories and poems linked with their passion for hunting, most notably the tale of Prince Llewelyn and his greyhound Gellert. To be a good huntsman meant a men could command a powerful role in the royal courts and society in general, and could become very rich. The Helwyr equipped powerful bows, enabling them to kill the toughest of quarry, but very little close combat weaponry, thus should be kept out of melees.
60 man unit
Very Fast
Very good missile attack/ very accurate
Poor in close combat
Skirmishers
No armour
IRISH UNITS (Ranika) :
Cavalry :
Guirran
(Horsemen with javelins, and an axe/spear in melee, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
Description - Gaelic light cavalry sticks to the common methods of Gaelic combat. They are skirmishers by default, meant to ride toward an opponent, throw javelins, and retreat, ad infinitum. Training and experience has made them fairly good at this, and the Guirran (horsemen), later called hobblers or hobilars, became a staple of English and French armies as well.
Amguirran Deaisbard
(Gaelic heavy cavalry with axes/swords, and lance, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, should be a bit late period) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Deaisbard are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On horseback, they form the Amguirran (heavy horsemen); Gaels don't tend to use much heavy cavalry, but when they do, they form a powerful reserve on the field for mowing down enemy infantry.
Carpata -
Gaelic chariot; chariot models don't count (they are counted with siege engines), but it'd probably need a new model for the driver. Would probably look similar to a British Wetwang chariot in shape, but less decoration than you see on reconstructions; riders would be Sleanaghta or similar infantry, maybe even just use them, in which case no new model would be needed at all; would raise allied morale
Description - The Gaels still used chariots in this period. They were in rapid decline in use, and had rarely been much of a weapon for war outside of a few regions, where the ground was smooth and flat enough to make good use of them, but they were still a popularized possession, and it was rare for aristocrats to not own at least one chariot for formal events. In war, they were used to drop nobles off into the middle of the fight (which can't be replicated in game), and as a missile platform from which the riders would hurl javelins, and also to crush light infantry by riding over them with the chariot's substantial weight.
Infantry :
Kernbannal
('Levy Troop'; unarmored club or spear militia with darts, fight as skirmishers)-
Description - The hierarchy of Gaelic societies is a bit unusual; it lacks feudal nobles and the subsequent varying ranks of nobles and peasants. However, Kerns tend to fall near the bottom. Without much money or inherent fighting ability, they cannot afford good equipment, nor are they likely to be sponsored by an arras (aristocrat). However, that matters little. Most of the time, a kern is just a man called up to form a militia in times of strife, and fight with whatever is on hand; usually hunting spears or solid clubs, accompanied by light, small javelins, often called darts. Later, kerns would become the basic soldier of Irish armies, but in this period are only militia.
Sleanaghta
(Spearmen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather vest/coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The slea or gae (spear) is the preferred weapon of most Gaelic soldiers. Accompanied with heavy throwing spears and a solid Gaelic targe, these spearmen form the backbone of any Gaelic army. They are professional soldiers, who either bought their equipment, or were sponsored by a wealthier member of society. They are intended to hold positions, and are often placed around missile troops to defend them from cavalry and any other threats that might occur.
Tuanaghta
(Axemen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The tua (axe) is one of the oldest and most favored weapons of the Gaels. The Gaelic axe has a particularly weighty head, meant to crush helmets and smash shields. With it, like most Gaels carry, are carried two heavy throwing spears, thrown into an enemy position before a charge. The Gaelic axemen act as a kind of bridge between medium and heavy infantry.
Claiomhnaghta
(Mid-length swordsmen with javelins, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The claiomh, climh, or clom (sword) is an expensive weapon, but generally well made. Faster than an axe, and generally more wieldy than a spear, it allows the soldier using it to manuever into position for thrusts and slashes. The typical Gaelic sword is shorter than a longsword, but not a shortsword. It generally has a leaf-shaped blade, meant to offer wide, sheering cuts, and devestating thrusts that open wide, gaping wounds. It is accompanied with a heavy Gaelic targe, and three light throwing spears; these spears are favored for swordsmen, so to enhance the mobility of these soldiers, but keep them able to fight in the traditional Gaelic manner.
Gaemornaghta
(Spearmen with long, two-handed spears (not actually pikes though), maybe use phalanx, or schiltron, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The Gaemor or Gaemhor (great spear) is a lengthy spear generally used in two hands. It is used in a tight formation as an anti-cavalry and anti-infantry measure; it is difficult to manuever past a wall of spear heads. While in use for centuries, this type of soldier grew increasingly more common among the Gaels as the dark ages and middle ages drove on; a response to the growing importance of cavalrymen.
Deaisbard
(Gaelic heavy infantry with axes, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, throwing spears) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Deaisbard are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On foot, they form heavy infantry soldiers, with throwing spears, like most other Gaelic infantry, to disrupt an enemy line before charging. When defending, they use a tight shieldwall, to absorb charges.
Arras
(Gaelic general unit, foot nobles with swords, scale armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, javelins) -
Description - Gaelic 'nobility' are drawn from numerous places; everyone from the lowest chief to the high king are considered Arras, as well as indepedent, wealthy merchants and traders. They can afford the best training, the best equipment, and the best soldiers to support them. Like other Gaels, they carry javelins to throw at their enemies before charging, and form a tight shieldwall-like formation to absorb an attack. They use long slashing and thrusting swords, which are fairly rare among Gaels. The heavy Gaelic targe, good quality scale armor, and a well-made iron helmet, provide them great protection against their enemies.
Rastriagha
(Berserkers, use a cudgel or hammer, round shield, probably wearing a crucifix (they were fanatics of different saint cults, and also generally trained soldiers), no armor) -
Description - The Gaels have their own berserker tradition, stemming from pagan times, but adapted well into the Christian era. The Irish are generally very fervent people; the most fervent soldiers tend to belong to saint cults, such as the cult of St. Finbar. Their devotion to their people and the Church keeps them constantly training. Many even join monastaries and are actually monks or priests. In battle, they enter a kind of religious-inspired frenzy, and kill anyone they see as a threat to Ireland or Christianity.
Inishnaghta
(Irish islanders from the satellite islands of Ireland, with heavy cloaks, no armor, large round shield, bipenne axe (two blades), heavy throwing spears, leather helmet, painted skin regardless of faction, Ui Neill and Mumainh only; available in the western provinces of Ireland only) -
Description - The islanders of Ireland live among the many sattelite islands. They fight with a version of the Gaelic axe, with two blades, and carry heavy throwing spears. They still paint their skin, and are some of the bravest soldiers in Ireland, though they wear no armor, but a helmet, and instead use a heavy cloak as defense.
Caeisornaghta
(Gaelic macemen, with a round-headed mace {not flanged, like medieval period mace} or modified work hammer, round shield, throwing spears, leather helmet, padded armor) -
Description - The mace is an old, simple weapon. While popularized widely in Europe by the advent of plate armor, Gaels, the Irish particularly, have used the mace for centuries, with a smooth spherical or egg-shaped head, or a hammer head. They are another arm of Gaelic infantry, and fight like axe or spearmen, with heavy spears thrown before a charge. The mace is essentially a glorified club, but it is very effective against most types of armor and any shield.
Dinuadda-Claiomhnaghta
(Irish longswordsmen; using longsword in two-hands though (not a greatsword), padded armor, iron helmet, available in southern Ireland) -
Description - Southern Irish longswords sometimes accomodated longer grips, meant to be used in two hands. Longswords were somewhat rare in Ireland to begin with, and these particular weapons rarely proliferated far, but they were a favored weapon of numerous champions and wealthier soldiers, as they could be used in one or two hands. In two hands, they would be able to deal more damage.
Ruardi-Laecha
Ui Neill only, elite.
Ruardi-Laecha (Red Warriors). They used longswords, round shields, javelins, wore chain armor, painted their faces with red dyes, and wore a red under-tunic, and fought as a type of elite warrior, on foot and on horseback, but were pretty rare.
Audheran-Laecha
Dal Riada only, elite.
Audheran-Laecha were elite spearmen, fought unarmored, covered themselves in a kind of white powder, and mostly relied on agility in combat.
Corcanneitae
Mumainha only, elite
Corcanneitae were used by the men of Munster; they were 'naked fanatics', essentially. Would have an axe, shield, cloak, otherwise be naked.
Bowmen and skirmishers :
Soikernbannal
('Levy Archer Troop'; only Gaelic archers they would have, levy archers with knives, hooded cloaks, hide in tall grass, but not really much good) -
Description - Gaels rarely employ professional archers as soldiers, except mercenaries. They, personally, see little value in archers. However, when they do employ their own, they tend to be simple levies of hunters, who, while proficient with their bows, are not soldiers, and easily chased off of a battlefield if engaged not properly defended, or if engaged in a melee.
Maiobhanaghta
(Gaelic slingers with knives and a small round shield, padded armor, leather helmet, better than their archers, and slings are substantially longer range than a normal bow) -
Description - The sling is still a popular weapon among the Gaels. It is far longer range than a regular bow, and a sling bullet of clay or stone is surprisingly deadly. Slingers in use by the Gaelic often are used to harass an enemy from great distance. Further, they are professional soldiers, not levies like Gaelic archers.
PICTISH UNITS : (Spongly & Ranika)
Cavalry :
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/4669/pictmarchan1em.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Marchan
Picts were very proud of their horses, though only the rich could afford one, and were excellent cavalrymen. These men form the retinues of the minor nobles and are a versatile force in battle, able to harass the enemy with their javelins before closing in to fight hand to hand.
(Light cavalry, unarmoured with round bucklers, javelins and spears.)
Marchan Tho
Horsemen armed with axes.
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2126/pictmormaer4xh.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Mormaers
Though never shown in Pictish art, it is probable that the kings and mormaers (high nobles) went into battle armoured and heavily armed. These men form the bodyguards of royalty and the rulers of the land, and fight as heavily armoured shock cavalry.
(Heavy cavalry, mailed with round bucklers, javelins and spears or swords.)
Infantry :
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5206/pictludodaoer1ro.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Ludodaoer
The sons of wealthy freeholders and minor nobles, Pictish swordsmen are fast and skilful. They are not great defensive troops, as they lack armour or large shields, but they are deadly with their bucklers and short swords when used to attack in open order, and especially when closely supported by the spears of the poorer freemen. They can also be used as effective ambushers, being good at hiding and fast runners.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with “H” shaped bucklers, short swords and posher tunics than the above unit.)
https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7577/pictshiltron019mt.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Schiltron
Drawn from the ranks of freemen, farmers and other common folk, the Pictish schiltron would form a formidable wall of spears on the battlefield. They used long spears, shields slung over their shoulders, but went otherwise unarmoured. They fought in a phalanx, and while not elite professionals can be counted upon to give a good account of themselves.
(Heavy infantry, unarmoured, with round shields slung over their shoulders and long two-handed spears)
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/6586/pictgairlom1cc.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Gairlom (spearmen)
'Those who carry spears'
A basic spearmen unit.
https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9191/pictchodaoer4xg.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Chodaoer
Some freemen fight in less of a tight formation than the schiltron, wielding short Pictish axes and bucklers. They are fierce, but they do not have the morale of professional troops. They are fast, good at hiding, and make excellent raiders. They are not so good at defending themselves or holding a line though.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with “H” shaped bucklers, javelins and “T-Bar” axes.)
https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7756/pictnorthern1ii.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Northern Warriors
The northern Picts remained pagan for many years longer than their southern cousins, and may have retained somewhat different traditions. They are usually shown with shorter spears, and it may be that the rought terrain of Caithness and Orkney forbids the use of the formidable schiltron, encouraging these ferocious warriors to use looser formations.
(Light infantry, long fringed robes, square bucklers, javelins and spears.)
Thomordaoer (Two handed axemen)
An axeman armed with a two-handed axe (attested slightly by the (possibly fake) carving of the Rhynie man.).
https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6079/pictaumueboai9ep.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Aumue Boai
('Naked Warriors', this is their name according Saint Columba)
Those warriors will fight naked, with sword and shield. They will be very fast, with a strong attack and a strong charge and like others picts infantry units can hide everywhere.
https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6783/pictgaiaurmarh8kj.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Gai Aurmahr ('Spear Masters')
Those elite warrriors will fight with spear.
Bowmen and skirmishers :
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/4391/picthuntman8lm.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Huntsmen
The Picts were very fond of hunting, and it is possible that units of huntsmen would have been drawn up and used to ambush important enemies in battle. These men are fast, lightly equipped, superb at hiding in almost any terrain and very accurate. They may have used a form of crossbow (the arcuballista of the Romans), though this would not have been the armour-piercing weapon of the middle ages but an accurate hunting bow.
(Light infantry, hooded mantle, arcuballista.)
Youths
Men too young to fight in the schiltron stand at the back and support their elders with a hail of javelins. They carry shields and can fight with their short spears if pressed, but they are relatively weak and their morale is brittle. They are fast runners though, and make good ambushers.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with round bucklers and a bundle of javelins. Fight in hand to hand with a short spear.)
Cingalom (slingers)
The sling is an universal weapon, Picts should use it.
Saiogdaoer (bowmen)
Those will be elite skirmisher in a small unit.
WISIGOTHS UNITS :
Mmm no real idea for the moment.
FRANKS UNITS : (Spongly & Agraes)
Cavalry :
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/260/franksantrustions1vr.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Anstrustions (King’s Warband)
Clovis or any of his sons/brothers would probably command a bodyguard of heavy cavalry, armoured in chainmail with shields, helms, spears and swords.
Count’s Warband
Elite warriors sworn to a powerful nobleman and armed and equipped from his pocket.
Infantry :
https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7645/frankshousehold0yf.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Household Troops
Footmen raised and equipped from the pockets of the powerful nobles and kings of the Franks. After they captured Soissons the Franks had access to Roman arms factories and could equip their men better than most Germans. Chainmail, shields, spears, helms and throwing axes. Sturdy heavy infantry.
Foederati
Frankish warriors who have served in the Roman army, equipped in a slightly Roman style. Chainmail, angons, helms, swords and shields. Very good attackers who throw their angons before charging.
https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5288/frankswarriors011wo.jpg (https://imageshack.us) https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7663/frankswarriors020lq.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Frankish Warriors
Tribal warriors, unarmoured but armed with shields, spears and throwing axes. A fierce barbarian levy, not organised or with great morale, but fairly nasty on the offensive.
Skirmishers :
Frankish Freemen
Poor tribesmen who have few weapons – perhaps they could be two units, one with bows and one with javelins. Certainly the Franks were hunters and trappers, and could have equipped a fair bundle of bowmen.
SAXONS/ANGLES UNITS : (Spongly)
All Saxon units should wear simple trousers with the legs below the knees bound tight with puttees.
Cavalry :
https://img50.imageshack.us/img50/64/saxoncniht016kh.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Cnihtas
"Mounted Retainers"
Saxon nobles rode to battle, but dismounted to fight. There is good evidence though that they would remount to pursue the enemy. Because this is impossible in RTW, it may be worth having a cavalry unit available to the Saxons. These men are nobles, but cannot really be expected to do much fighting from horseback. They should only be used for harrying the flanks or pursuing fleeing enemies.
(Light Cavalry with richly edged tunics, painted roundshields, spears.)
Horswealas
Britons Horsemen recruited to fight for the Saxons. They had a higher Wergild than other Welshman living on Saxon land.
Infrantry :
https://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3530/saxongesith018to.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Gesithas
"Companions"
These are the elite forces of the great Saxon kings and athelings. Handpicked young warriors given the very best equipment and fed from the lord’s table. They swear the mead-bargain with their lord, giving loyalty to the death in return for mead, wealth and land. It is considered the greatest disgrace to live if your lord dies, and such men will be condemned to live as exiles. As a result, these units have exceptional morale, and will fight to the death rather than retreat unless their lord orders it.
(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, mail shirts and helms, all decorated to mark them out from lesser units -> Decorated helms and roundshields, spears, decorated swords, mail shirts. Richly edged tunics.)
https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5765/saxonheorthgeneat5di.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Heorthgeneats
"Hearth-Friends"
This unit represents the hearth-troops of the eorldermen of the land – these nobles are usually chosen from the veterans of the king’s gesithas, and administer land and raise their own warbands. While not as well equipped or skilled as the king’s warriors, these men swear the same oaths to their own lords. They form an elite core of Saxon armies.
(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, some armour and helms. Noble, but not as spectacular looking as above -> Iron helms, painted round shields, short mail shirts, spears, plain swords, richly edged tunics.)
Duguth
"Older Warriors"
Thegns are the lowest rank of landholding noble in Saxon society, and are usually either born into the role or chosen from their earl’s warband. They raise their own retinues of warriors, and bring them to battle when their lord calls. These men represent the older veterans of such a warband. They are not all that well equipped or fast, but they are stubborn and excellent at holding the line.
(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, lang-seaxes and helms -> Iron helms, painted round shields, spears, plain swords, leather jerkin, edged tunics.)
https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/257/saxongeoguth4ac.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Geoguth
"Younger Warriors"
These men are the younger, unmarried warriors of the warbands of the land’s thegns. They are fierce and aggressive, hoping to make a name for themselves and win great rewards from their lord. What they lack in experience, they make up for in enthusiasm. They throw their javelins before engaging the enemy in hand to hand combat.
(Light infantry with painted round shields, spears, seaxes, javelins, edged tunics.)
https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5189/saxonceorl6jl.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Ceorls
"Peasants"
Ceorls are the ordinary freemen and farmers of Saxon society. They are only very rarely called up to fight, usually only in times of emergency. They are all trained to some degree, as all Saxon freemen own and practice with weapons, but they cannot be expected to hold professional troops for long. They are at their best when standing in a shield wall adding weight to more experienced troops or outflanking the enemy.
(Light Infantry with plain round shields, plain tunics, spears, seaxes, Phrygian caps.)
Wulfbyrne
"Wolf-shirts"
Since the early days of the German tribes right through to the Viking age, the northern peoples have a tradition of fanatical warriors dedicated to Woden, the god of war and slaughter. These men are utter fanatics who believe themselves invulnerable to weapons, and run into battle wearing only the pelts of wolves. They are impetuous, ferocious and almost unequalled warriors, but there are only a few of them to be mustered. They are best used for breaking enemy shield walls so that other units can pour in behind them.
(Light infantry with bare chested, wolf skins worn as cloaks with the head as a “hood”, painted roundshields, plain swords, battle axes)
Wræccan
"Wanderers"
The Dark Ages are troubled times, and many bands of freebooters, pirates and outcasts from the Germanic tribes can be found across Europe looking for nobles to serve. Saxon kings frequently employ such bands – indeed, the king’s of the Gewissae began as leaders of such freebooting bands. They are savage, having nothing to lose, and experienced, but are treacherous and difficult to control.
(Light Infantry with painted roundshields, spears, fur or leather jerkin, plain swords, plain tunics, javelins. )
Skirmishers :
https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5219/saxongebur4zw.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Geburs
"Serfs"
Poorer freemen are mustered for battle with whatever poor weapons they have. Usually they are employed as unarmoured skirmishers, using slings. Some may also carry javelins or staff slings (possibility for more units). They are fast runners, and most live as hunters or fishermen so are quite good at using the terrain to their advantage. Their morale is fragile though, and they cannot be expected to fight hand to hand – that is work for men of noble birth!
(Light infantry with tatty tunics, perhaps bare legged and footed, javelins or slings, no shields, seaxes, Phrygian caps.)
Others :
War Hounds*
MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS : (Ranika, Spongly, Agraes)
Frison Pirats*
Juts Warriors*
Wræccan
(Anglo-Saxon)
The Dark Ages are troubled times, and many bands of freebooters, pirates and outcasts from the Germanic tribes can be found across Europe looking for nobles to serve. Saxon kings frequently employ such bands – indeed, the king’s of the Gewissae began as leaders of such freebooting bands. They are savage, having nothing to lose, and experienced, but are treacherous and difficult to control.
(Light Infantry with shields, swords, helms and javelins)
Gasraidha
(Irish)
Gasraidha (litteraly 'rabble') were generally criminals who had been kicked out of their tribes. They would be ill-equipped, unreliable, but available in large number for very little; they'd also actually be found more outside of Ireland than inside. While criminals were hired sometime in a pinch, most of the time law-abiding Gaels were more than happy to just kill them, so they usually took foreign employment.
Babuanna
(Irish)
Babuanna ('Paid Fighters') were professional mercenaries; they would be much better equipped and trained, and far less likely to flee, but also more rare, and more common in Ireland than outside of Ireland.
Horswealas
(Briton/Saxon)
Britons Horsemen recruited to fight for the Saxons. They had a higher Wergild than other Welshman living on Saxon land.
Here some suggestions for factions symbols :
FACTIONS SYMBOLS
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia -> Red Dragon or Black Bear (in reference to Arthur)
- Rheged -> A Boar
- Powys -> An Eagle
- Gwynedd -> a War Dog (in reference to Maelgwn, 'Great Hound')
- Gododdin -> a Black Raven
- Strathclyde -> a Griffon
- Ebrauc -> a Late Roman Symbol, like this
http://truth-about-jesus.johreiki.net/chi-rho.jpg
- Elmet -> A Horse (in reference to Gwallawc Marchawc Trin, the 'Battle Horse')
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel -> Manx flag, in a more archaistic version (without plate armor ~D )
http://fp.fullfathom.f9.co.uk/images/manx%20flag.jpg
- Gwent & Glywysing -> A Bull
- Dyfed -> A Triskell
IRISH (Christian)
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada
PICTS
- Picts -> A Pictish symbol, maybe like this one :
http://www.electricscotland.com/stones/images/ddoublzed.gif
GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans) ->
- Angles (Pagans) -> Odin's Knot
- Juts (Pagans) -> White Horse on Green Background (emblem of Ceint)
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)
- Wisigoths (Aryans Christians)
The Saxons could have the dragon of Wessex as their banner, and the Jutes should have a white horse on a green field - the banner of Hengest's kingdom of Ceint.
Ok, I have update my previous message ~:)
Spongly, can you give me cities names for the Germanic provinces (I don't know if all exist in 480, correct me) ? Also for the Pictish if you know somes (thought we can't find all for the Picts, we will use the suffix -ichean like Ranika tell me to do).
I have just made a map showing the territories of each faction (Britons and Saxons for the moment). I know it is very bad quality, I will made a better one later ~D
https://img316.imageshack.us/img316/9239/britonskingdoms040ft.th.png (https://img316.imageshack.us/my.php?image=britonskingdoms040ft.png)
Frankish warriors :
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/uploads/post-895-1107450184_thumb.jpg
Saxons :
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/uploads/post-895-1107448873_thumb.jpg
Britons and Picts :
http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/images2/britons1.jpg
Britons and Saxon :
http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/images2/britons2.jpg
Picts :
http://members.aol.com/scothist/images/picts1.jpg
Images from Osprey books ~D
Incongruous
07-19-2005, 08:02
Hi, I helped do the research for the Kingdom of the Englisc in AOVAF:TW I could post some info on early Saxon armies, kindoms, and federations if you'd like.
Incongruous
07-19-2005, 08:47
Well if you want a West Seaxon faction the start date will have to be after 514.
If you want to keep your start date then there should be only one Germanic settlement, the Jutish one of Kent set up by Hengest and Horsa.
As for banners, someone suggested the Dragon of Wessex, such a thing did not yet exist, and Thors hammer for the Angles is silly.
As for a Jutish, Seaxon and Anglish cavalry unit, one should not be included as these peoples always fought on foot and did not breed horses enough for such a unit to exist.
Anway, King arthur is meant to have existed in the first half of the sixth century. By then you could have the settlements/kingdoms of Diera (southern part of what was to become Northumbria), Weseax, a small part of the south-east of what is now England would be under Frakish controll. Basically there would be quite few raiding parties also based in the east. This period will be hard to put into MOD while keepng historical accuracy, because basically the Germanics were just small bands of adventurers with only two established kindoms.
Ianofsmeg16
07-22-2005, 22:49
Hi! Sorry i've been quite inactive lately, first i'm helping Britain: Romanorum Incursio and secondly i went on holiday...so Agreas? is there anything you wish me to do?
p.s i can also create maps...which is what i'm doing with B:RI, the map i'm using for that mods should be exactly the same as the one for this mod, all i'd need to do once i'm finished with B:RI is change the provinces...unfortunalty the mapwork on that mod is going to take time because it's my first crack at doing it for a mod, plus i'm always here as your man for the Ynys Manau Faction!!!
I have been away for a week and Im just coming back ~D
Bopa, it will be very kind of you to help us with the anglo-saxon ~:)
As I have read, at the starting date they were very few angles and saxons settlements in Britain, mainly the ancients foederati who will join Hengist revolt later. Some Kingdoms that I have made saxons in my province list were only taken later in the VIth century, but we have to deal with some facts :
- the starting date is 481. I have choose this date because I believe (it's only one theory between a lot) that the beginning of Arthur reign was around this date, with the culminance at the Battle of Badon (in 496 or in 516) and the end at Camlann in 536 or 542. In Gaul it's also the beginning of Clovis reign (that's why I have changed the date to 481, not 480). The date can be put a little later. When I have conceived the mod project I was thinking to make it start at Arthur's death, but I think a lot of people want to play with Arthur ~D
- the end date will be in the VIIth or the VIIIth century. At this period the different anglo-saxons kingdoms have merge, and as far I know the Juts weren't as powerful as that to be the only one saxon kingdom :dizzy2:
So if we can't put Mercia, Bernicia and others at this date we can put Angles, Juts and Saxons in the regions were there were foederati settlements. We have to pray to have more than 21 factions slots and to play with events such as merging factions.
So Bopa, you can give us a more appropriate starting date (the best will be before 496 but don't know if possible) and we will choose between this one and 481. You can have a look at our provinces list and tell us if it is good, and help us with saxon units :book:
Anyway, thanks a lot for your help ~:)
It seems that we will only have 17 factions in the BI campaign... hoping we can keep our 20 factions. If not, some suggestions of factions we will keep and of what we may make rebels.
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia -> To keep
- Rheged -> To keep
- Powys -> To keep
- Gwynedd -> To keep
- Gododdin -> To keep
- Strathclyde -> To keep
- Ebrauc -> eventually rebels
- Elmet -> eventually rebels
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel -> eventually rebels
- Gwent & Glywysing -> To keep
- Dyfed -> eventually rebels
IRISH (Christian) -> all to keep
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada
PICTS
- Picts -> To keep
GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans) -> To keep or Saxon-Jutish faction
- Angles (Pagans) -> To keep
- Juts (Pagans) -> eventually rebels or make a Saxon-Jutish faction
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis) -> To keep
- Wisigoths (Aryans Christians) -> eventually rebels
I was also thinking to make campaigns later, focused on certain kingdoms/factions : the battles of Arthur, the struggle between Britons and Franks in Brittany, Urien Rheged, the fight between Picts, Scots, Strathclyders and Northumbrians... but all of this will only be made when our mod will be out ~D
Ianofsmeg16
07-26-2005, 16:10
The original game will still be on there, we dont need to get rid of any factions, there will be enough slots.....
Ranika and Trashaholic have helped me to complete the Britons unit lists. Now all names are in Brythonic, and Britons got the better selection of units. Now everyone can help me to complete units descriptions or give me ideas of specefic units (the better will be one or two unique units per faction).
See https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=848250&postcount=86
Ianofsmeg16
07-27-2005, 16:02
For the Ynys Manau and galwyddel faction (if you saw my above post and are keeping them)
how about;
Mooar Shleiyder (heavy Spearmen)
or....
Mooar Marksleigh
Heavy Cavalry, i'm sure these have an actual name, other than heavy cavalry, i'll find them....all the names are in manx gaelic
EDIT; I found the Manx name for the Isle of Man, it is Ellan Vannin
Little issue for the Manx, about their language at the period. I have read that during the early VIth century the population was mainly briton, so I suppose Manx language doesn't exist yet (neither do Welsh, Cornish or Breton, wich were the same language at the time).
I think we can give for the Manaw and Galwyddel faction 2 units : a Manx unit (the spearman fits well) and a Galloway unit (maybe an axeman).
Don't know yet if those units will be recruitable only by their faction or by the briton faction that will control the area.
Anyway, can you describe those units a little ?
Ianofsmeg16
07-27-2005, 16:30
Ok, i was using a old manx translator on the internet (old Language, not old translator)
and i'll post in a minute.....so do you want me to find Manx Spearmen and Galloway Axemen in Breton then?
so do you want me to find Manx Spearmen and Galloway Axemen in Breton then?
I think it will be more accurate, but can you quote your sources mentionning the manx spearmen ?
Ianofsmeg16
07-27-2005, 18:18
It was at Castle Rushen, in my town, and it said; The Manx Celts, at this time, had brilliant spearmen that held of Irish and Briton Raids for many years. These heavy spearmen, armoured in chain mail, were reformed by Manannan......
thats what i can remember, and it goes on to say stuff about the vikings so i stopped reading
Thinking about it for a bit, I think that the best way to deal with the Saxon, Angles and others given the early start date would be to include the homelands on the map – northern Germany, Denmark, and southern Scandinavia. With a fair number of boats at the start, they could harass the Britons before assembling enough troops to make a landing. You’ll just have to make British lands more prosperous to motivate the Saxons to invade!
Other than that, I’ve got a list of the armour and weapons and clothes that various Saxon units should have, assuming the “shield wall” formation in BI will use secondary weapons like the phalanx formation:
All Saxon units should wear simple trousers with the legs below the knees bound tight with puttees.
Family Members: Decorated masked helms (Sutton Hoo style – prevents the weirdness of identical family members faces), long mail shirts, splint arms and leg protection, decorated shield and sword. Richly edged tunics and arm rings.
Gesithas: Decorated helms and roundshields, spears, decorated swords, mail shirts. Richly edged tunics.
Hearthwerod: Iron helms, painted round shields, short mail shirts, spears, plain swords, richly edged tunics.
Duguth: Iron helms, painted round shields, spears, plain swords, leather jerkin, edged tunics.
Geoguth: Painted round shields, spears, seaxes, javelins, edged tunics.
Ceorls: Plain round shields, plain tunics, spears, seaxes, Phrygian caps.
Geburs: Tatty tunics, perhaps bare legged and footed, javelins or slings, no shields, seaxes, Phrygian caps.
Cnihtas: Richly edged tunics, painted roundshields, spears.
Wulfbyrne: Bare chested, wolf skins worn as cloaks with the head as a “hood”, painted roundshields, plain swords
Wraeccan: Painted roundshields, spears, fur or leather jerkin, plain swords, plain tunics, javelins.
Here are some pics of Saxon wargear for the use of any modellers we manage to find:
http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/kids/images/sutton_king.gif
A slightly cartoonish picture of the Sutton Hoo treasures, but this is roughly what the family members should look like.
http://www.siue.edu/~ejoy/Sutton%20Hoo%20Helmet%20Replica.jpg
A reconstruction of the masked Sutton Hoo helm, definately the sort of thing Saxon family members should wear.
http://albion-swords.com/images/armor/mercenary/shields/anglo-saxon%20viking%20round%20shield%20front.jpg
A typical Saxpn shield.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/csugg/origins/boar%20sutton%20hoo.gif
The sort of boar crest that might be present on top a Saxon iron helm.
http://www.saxonviolence.co.uk/photos/EarlySaxonShield1small.JPG
A plain Saxon shield.
http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/kids/images/sutton_shield2.gif
Half of the beautifully decorated Sutton Hoo shield. It's round so you can guess what the other half looks like!
http://www.regia.org/images/wargear/ImageI77.jpg
Another finely decorated masked helm, a possibility for Gesithas or family members.
http://www.regia.org/images/wargear/ImageI3.jpg
The Coppergate Helm, a 7th century Northumbrian piece, good of hearthwerod or gesithas.
http://albion-swords.com/images/armor/mercenary/anglosaxonhelm.jpg
A plain iron spangenhelm of a type common in the Dark Ages.
http://manningimperial.com/catalogue/230main.jpg
The Pioneer Helm, another nice fairly plain Saxon helm, with the boar crest so often mentioned in Beowulf.
http://www.regia.org/images/wargear/EarlySaxonSwords.jpg
Some nice plain early Saxon swords such as might be carried by Duguth or an Eorl's Hearthwerod.
http://www.ancientedge.com/images_products/183_big.jpg
A beautifully decorated Saxon sword, good for family members, captains, gesithas, officers and so on.
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid5/teaching.backups.2003/teach/earlymedieval/lecturelists/images/darkages/0000/21.JPG
The decorated pommel of the Sutton Hoo sword, giving an idea of the richness of noble wargear.
http://www.regia.org/images/linewargear/Seaxes.gif
A selection of seaxes. The ones carried as weapon would look like these but be about 2 feet long and used for hacking and stabbing.
http://www.darksword-armory.com/images/IM-105.jpg
A nice example of a Seax.
http://www.romeomodels.com/Immagini%20GIF/Prodotti/54mm/54%20JPG/RM%2054-44.jpg
A good picture of a gesitha or hearthwerod thane. Also useful for officers.
http://chain-mail-armour.co.uk/assets/images/BYRNE_FULLSHOT.JPG
A short mail shirt that might be worn by less wealthy nobles.
http://www.saxonviolence.co.uk/photos/SplintfattySV.JPG
A form of splint armour that would be used only by the wealthiest (family members). Made to cover the lower legs as well.
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aworlds_media/ibase_1/00/03/87/00038719_000.jpg
A cniht
http://www.regia.org/images/combat/War13.jpg
http://www.eventplan.co.uk/photos/Col03%20Vikings%202%20MC%20large%20loRes.jpg
A warrior in an edged tunic.
http://www.hz-forum.de/portal/a_seiten/images/gustinelli/2004_nov/Anglo-Sax2.jpg
A chieftain or gesith
http://www.lilliputmodel.com/galeria/garro/garro8_1.jpg
A thegn, a good figure for an officer or man of a hearthwerod.
http://www.heorot.dk/burnett-mess-e.jpg
Cniht
http://www.regia.org/images/combat/War21.jpg
A warband of duguth with their thegn
http://www.travelpublishing.co.uk/countrylivingeastanglia/images/suf0047.tif.JPG
A family of ceorls
http://www.chen-la.com/gallery/gorobey001/sax01.jpg
A ceorl with seax and shield.
That should do for now. I'll scan in some Osprey stuff as well if that's OK, over the next few days.
thrashaholic
08-05-2005, 20:30
Agraes asked me to write a couple of unit descrptions for a couple of the Briton units, these are works in progress:
'Marca Llydaw'
The Britons in Brittany, or Llydaw as it was also known, were famed horsemen and recruited powerful cavalry that were pivotal in the numerous Breton victories over the Franks. The warriors of Llydaw were known for their distinctive black shields and their cavalry for their destructive hit and run javelin attacks. The Llydaw cavalry wore white cloaks and equipped their famous black round shield as well as javelins and a sword, unfortunately for any budding emporer they could only be recruited in Brittany, meaning they must be conquered and subdued before joining any foreign nation's army, a tough task indeed.
'Aeson Llydaw'
The Brythonic nations were renowned for the ferocity and skill of their warriors, and the British exiles in Brittany, or Lldaw as it was also known, were no exception. Breton use of a combination of mobile cavalry and powerful infantry, such as the Aeson Llydaw, provided them with numerous victories over enemies like the Franks. Like their hore riding counterparts they equipped round black sheilds and a variety of weapons, and like them could only be recruited in Brittany itself.
'Aulue'
It was a legal obligation for all men over a certain age to fight when required in Briton kingdoms, indeed most, if not all, saw it as a great privilage and were eager for battle. Many kept their own weapons so men could be rapidly form militia units (or Aulue) when their kingdom needed their service. They often fought surprisingly well, but were quick to turn tail and run if things were going badly. Briton militia units were neither well nor badly equipped and could hold their own in a fight, but a wise commander will note their limitations and not commit them against heavily armed elite troops.
Thinking about it for a bit, I think that the best way to deal with the Saxon, Angles and others given the early start date would be to include the homelands on the map – northern Germany, Denmark, and southern Scandinavia. With a fair number of boats at the start, they could harass the Britons before assembling enough troops to make a landing. You’ll just have to make British lands more prosperous to motivate the Saxons to invade!
I have also think about that. Thought it will be a nice solution, there is two majors problems to deal with :
- To include those regions, we will have to extend the map eastward and so we need to include others factions like the Frisons, the Burgondes, the Alamans and others, but we don't have enought factions slots. Maybe we can put 'desert regions' to keep separate the Franks and the Saxons.
- The differents germanic tribes maybe rather like fight each other and not go to Britain. I hope a better IA for BI...
Anyway, nice work Spongly and Thrashaholic, I will update the unit list a bit latter.
I have updated the unit list with the last changes.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=848250&postcount=86
I'm am also thinking with Spongly to add some new pictish units,
- An axeman armed with a two-handed axe (attested slightly by the (possibly fake) carving of the Rhynie man.).
- One or two champions units. Maybe a nude warrior armed with sword + shield ? There is no real evidence for the VIth century and later Picts to fight nudes (except interpretations of some drawings on the stones, and by quoting Gildas) but maybe their champions can fight naked ? With a lot of tattooes, to frighten ennemies.
- Bowmen (kept to a small unit size and used more as skirmishers than all out battlefield archers) and/or slingers
- Another cavalry unit with axe or sword
- A basic spearman (a southern version of the "northern warrior").
Some interesting screenshots from the BI demo. I think it is going to be good (thought I can play it until I get my new PC), with intereting models but we will need to reskin a lot of units.
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo59.jpg
Sarmatians auxiliaries : maybe useful for one of our britons cavalry, thought i dont like their helm and armor.
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo58.jpg
Coastal levies : maybe useful for our ardu (militia).
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo57.jpg
Bowmen.
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo56.jpg
Warlords and general : the warlords looks a bit strange, with their lorica segmantata... the general is quite interesting, thought it can look better.
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo55.jpg
Monks : I dont plan to put units like monks or priests on the battlefield.
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo54.jpg
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo43.jpg
Those saxons swordmen sucks...
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo44.jpg
The saxon cavalry looks like normans knights of the XIth century...
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo42.jpg
This warlord looks not so bad for a northern briton or pictish general (with good reskinning).
https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8980/img236mh.jpg
Bucellarri.
https://img227.imageshack.us/img227/750/29014cn.jpg
https://img118.imageshack.us/img118/664/img192bi.jpg
Saxons in schiltron formation.
https://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7610/img227ea.jpg
Good thought need some reskinning and another helm.
https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2088/img205ub.jpg
Saxons hunters : interesting for our Geburs.
https://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4011/img110nw.jpg
Interesting for Briton infantry.
https://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6748/img175mx.jpg
Also a list of interestings units in BI :
Francisca_Heerbann
Saxon_Hearth_Troops
Celtic_Crossbowmen
Celtic_Kerns
Saxon_Hunters
Celtic_Slingers
Golden_Band
Hounds_of_Culann
Noble_Cavalry_Alamanni
Frankish_Paladins
Cavalry_Alemanni
Noble_Warriors_Frank
Chosen_Archer_Alemanni
Night_Raiders_Alemanni
Saxon_Mounted_Nobles
Noble_Clansmen_Celt
Burgundian_Lancer
Frankish_Raiders
Saxon_Sea_Raiders
Scotti_Chariots
Druids
Alemanni_Warhounds
Celtish_Wolfhounds
Alemanni_Onager
Frankish_Ballistae
Chosen_Warlord_Alemanni
Frankish_Paladin_Bodyguard
Saxon_Warlord
Spear_Warband_Alemanni
Hillmen
Mountain_Men
Levy_Spearmen_Frank
Gothic_Warriors
Celtic_Spearmen
Goth_Raiders
Sarmatian_Armoured_Archers
Sarmatian_Noble_Cavalry
Alan_Noble_Cavalry
Steppe_Lancers
Gothic_Lancer
Gothic_Warrior_Nobles
Alan_Horse_Archers
Gallowglass
Saxon_Keels
Axe_Heerbann
Romano_British_Monks
Graal_Knights
British_Legionaries
Coastal_Levies
Imperial_German_Bodyguard
Imperial_Household_Bodyguard
Sword_Heerbann
Carriage_Ballistae
Praeventores
Roman_Priest
Equites_Sagittarii
Hippo_Toxotai
Foederati_Cavalry
Equites_Auxilia
Sarmatian_Auxilia
Chosen_Axemen_Alemanni
Scholae_Palatinae
Equites_Catafractarii
Equites_Clibinarii
Auxilia_Palatinii
Bucellarii
Plumbatarii
Foederati_Infantry
Comitatenses
Comitatenses_First_Cohort
Legio_Lanciarii
Limitanei
Western_Archer
Clibinarii_Immortals
Clibinarii
Cataphracts
Mountain_Slinger
Arian_Priests
Mounted_Arian_Priests
Gothic_Horse_Archers
Western_Peasant_Alemanni
Western_Peasant_Frank
Western_Peasant_Saxon
Western_Peasant_Celt
Noble_Warriors_Frank
Celtic_Warlord
Herdsmen_Sarmatian
Peasant_Vandal
Runaway_Slave_Spearmen
Goth_Raiders
Sarmatian_Noble_Cavalry
Alan_Noble_Cavalry
Sarmatian_Warlords
Goth_Warlords
Western_Peasant
Roman_Onagers
Roman_Ballistae
Romano_British_Warlords
Generic_Rebel_General
Barb_Rebel_General
Amazon_Chariots
Merc_Herdsmen
Merc_Foederati_Infantry
Merc_Veteranii
Merc_Gallowglass
Merc_Kerns
Merc_Graal_Knights
Merc_Alan_Noble_Cavalry
Merc_Sarmatian_Auxilia
Merc_Foederati_Cavalry
Merc_Hippo_Toxotai
Merc_Equites_Veteranii
Merc_Onagers
Merc_Ballistae
Barb_Horde_Peasants
Hun_Horde_Spearmen
Hunnic_Archers
Merc_Bucellarii
Merc_Alan_Horse_Archers
Barb_Horde_Raider
Barb_Horde_Chosen_Swordsmen
Hun_Horde_Chosen_Warriors
Merc_Hounds_of_Culann
Merc_Golden_Band
Barb_Horde_Spearmen
Barb_Horde_Hunter
Roman_Heavy_Onager
Merc_Vandal_Raiders
Merc_Wolfhounds
Roman_Repeating_Ballistae
Roman_Scorpion
Now we have to see all models...
thrashaholic
08-08-2005, 17:28
I've done some some Briton unit descriptions:
'Marca Dumonya'
The wealth, fertile soil and landscape of Dumnonia (modernday Devon, South West England) allowed the locals to breed horses that weren't just beasts of burden; they bred powerful warhorses and became renowned for their horsemanship in the field of battle. Dumnonia is supposedly the setting for Camelot and their cavalry no doubt inspiring the legends of Arthur and his knights (some even claim that Arthur was a Dumnonian warlord). The Marca Dumonyna wore chain mail and red cloaks and carried a spear, round shield and spangelhelm; they can only be recruited in Dumnonia.
'Fwnmilwre'
The sling is one of the oldest and simplest weapons there is and was a favourite of the pre-Roman Britons. In the times of Arthur the bow was becoming more popular, but due to the simplicity of its construction and use, and the huge availability of ammunition, the sling was still widely used. In many ways a sling could out perform a bow and commanders would be foolish to ingore their usefullness on the battlefield. Other than their slings, the fwnmilwre (slingers) were lightly armed and would not last long in close combat.
How much units the mod will have ?
At this time we have :
BRITONS (11 factions) :
20 'standart' units + 5 'unique/AoR' units
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign + 1 mounted enseign
IRISH (3 factions) :
12 'standart' units + 5 'unique/AoR' units
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign
PICTS (1 faction) :
7 'standart' units + 1 'AoR' unit
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign
ANGLO-SAXONS (3 factions) :
10 'standart' units
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign
FRANKS (1 faction) :
6 'standart' units
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign
WISIGOTHS (1 faction) :
not done yet
MERC/REBELS :
5 units
TOTAL : At least 92 differents skins, and if we choose to make differents skins per faction 336 skins.
Lot of work for ours skinners/modelers ! (of course if we will find one).
Ianofsmeg16
08-09-2005, 16:35
Is anyone here good on ancient British Languages, cos i looked everywhere and i couldnt find what they called the Manx, the Isle of man is Ynys Manau so manx spearmen might be "word for spearmen" Manau.
p.s i dont know the Welsh word for Spearmen
A good mercenary or potentially recruitable unit for the Saxons might be "horswealas" by the way, if they're too lacking in cavalry. Basically, they're Welsh Horsemen recruited to fight for the Saxons. They had a higher Wergild than other Welshman living on Saxon land.
Ianofsmeg16
08-10-2005, 16:49
Rherel Manau literally Heavy Manx Spearmen
The Isle of Man is a tiny Island that lies in a Strategic position in the middle of the Irish Sea, therefore All manner of peoples look at it with hunger. This could be seen as a downfall or a reason to flee yet Mannanan and his heirs re-worked the army, producing armoured spearmen to fend off the raiders that come from Ireland, Rheged and and Gwynedd.
These men are perfectly equipped to fight in the hills of Mann. Disciplined, well armoured yet agile, the Manx Spearmen make a living out of fighting for their existence. They are recruited from the nobles or families with enought money to buy the Chainmail and heavy spears they take into battle.
Still need to find another unique unit for the Manau and Galwyddel faction, any ideas?
Do you want me to write some faction descriptions?
Gaels at this time still used chariots sometimes, and also used longswords with two-handed grips sometimes.
I have updated the unit list with those suggestions.
Spongly, can you make the descriptions for your horswhealas and the Saxon battle hounds (if they are not too fanzy), and our new pictish units ? Ranika may help to find pictish names (or gaelic if they lack). Eventually you can try to find others ideas for unique/AoR units for the Picts and the Saxons.
Ian, I think we have to wait to make the descriptions till BI is out, because as I have read in the FAQ we will have to use the BI campaign to have the new features available (like religions or loyalty), so I don't know if we will keep all of our factions (but it looks like so).
A Galwyddel axeman will be a fine idea, maybe you can ask Ranika about it.
We have to find differents uniques/AoR units for : Gwent, Rheged, Ebrauc, Powys, Dyfed, Elmet, Gododdin and Strathclyde (maybe others for Penines, Ceredigion, ...).
We need ours first skins !
Ian, you are the one who know the most people on the org, can you ask your friends if they can help us in modeling/skinning ? And eventually recruiting on the forums or PMing skinners ?
New Pictish units (more complete descriptions will come)
Saiogdaoer (bowmen)
Those will be elite skirmisher in a small unit.
Gairlom (spearmen)
'Those who carry spears'
A basic spearmen unit.
Cingalom (slingers)
The sling is an universal weapon, Picts should use it.
Thomordaoer (Two handed axemen)
An axeman armed with a two-handed axe (attested slightly by the (possibly fake) carving of the Rhynie man.).
Marchan Tho
Horsemen armed with axes.
Aumue Boai
('Naked Warriors', this is their name according Saint Columba)
Those warriors will fight naked, with sword and shield. They will be very fast, with a strong attack and a strong charge and like others picts infantry units can hide everywhere.
Gai Aurmahr ('Spear Masters')
Those warrriors will only fight with a spear and no armor.
EDIT : Ranika helped me with some names ~D
Ianofsmeg16
08-15-2005, 11:56
Are we going to do this for Vanilla Rome aswell as BI, we might attract more members if we are doing it for vanilla first, seeing as it'll take some time for people to get BI
BTW are you PMing skinners? I thought i heard you say that, good idea! RTW King from Brittania:Romanum Incursio might help, as he's a AMC brother....pm him, cos he can skin and is quite good at it
Are we going to do this for Vanilla Rome aswell as BI, we might attract more members if we are doing it for vanilla first, seeing as it'll take some time for people to get BI
I don't think so, because BI provides us a huge number of interesting features and new models that will make our work easier. The mod will be out one or two months after BI in the better case I think, so people will have enought time to buy it. For the skinners and modelers they don't need BI to work first (thought they may have some difficulties to transfere their work from vanilla to BI).
BTW are you PMing skinners? I thought i heard you say that, good idea! RTW King from Brittania:Romanum Incursio might help, as he's a AMC brother....pm him, cos he can skin and is quite good at it
I will do it ! Maybe this evening ~:)
Ian, if you want you can begin to work on the map.
http://img162.echo.cx/img162/3163/map49oj.jpg
This is for the region featured. We need a very good scale and details, showing rivers, mountains, etc... Try our best.
If BI allow to have more than 20 factions, the map will be extended southward and eastward, to have the Alamans, the Frisons, the Burgondes, the whole Aquitaine and maybe the Saxony and Jutland. But we will do it latter if possible only !
Ianofsmeg16
08-15-2005, 12:22
Ok i'll do the map...but remember this is my first try, so it might not be as good as you hope :)
Well, try your best and take your time ! Maybe anoter modder will help you.
Some suggestions for AoR/unique units for the Britons :
- Gwent : maybe christian fanatics. There was a lot of monasteries in this area.
- Dyfed : a Brytho-Gael elite soldier.
- Powys : elite archers.
- Ebrauc : an elite soldier with good romans weapons.
- Elmet : ?
- Rheged : a mountain warrior, maybe mounted
- Gododdin : special cavalry, or brytho-pict unit
- Galwyddel : axemen maybe
- Strathclyde : a kind of pirat ?
What do you think of them ?
only browsed through the thread, but for the non-saxon areas, the dark ages in mainland Britain was known as the age of saints. Look forward to the mod.
Also wanted to say some good research is being done here, I'm an archaeology student at one of the Tribal/Roman civitas towns and live in the area so will look forward to seeing a good map of the area!!
MORIDVNVM [DEMETARVM] (Carmarthen, Dyfed), so its of great interest.
Ianofsmeg16
08-16-2005, 11:48
Hi Dragoon, and welcome to the .org!
Perhaps you could help us with a problem I'm having with research, could you possibly find out anything you can about galwyddel (galloway) specifically the armies as i need to know what AoR unit they will be getting.
thanks
Ianofsmeg16
08-16-2005, 12:30
Right
FACTION LIST
Playables
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia
- Rheged
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel
- Gwent & Glywysing
- Dyfed
IRISH (Christian)
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada
PICTS
- Picts (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)
GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Juts (Pagans)
- Bretwalda (Pagan)
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)
As you can see i got rid off the Wisigoths, at the moment i need to have a Senate/three factions thing so i went with that...For cultures i think we should do this....
Saxon (Roman)
Angles (Julii)
Saxons (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)
Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Ebrauc (Macedon)
Manau and Galwyddel (Greece)
Elmet (Thrace)
Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)
Southern British (Eastern)
Dumnonia (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)
Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (British)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Germania)
Picts (Scythia)
Strathclyde (dacia)
Middle Britons and Brittany (Carthaginian)
Gwent (Carthage)
Dyfed (Numidia)
Llydaw (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)
hopefully thats alright, what do you think?
Ianofsmeg16
08-16-2005, 17:04
Hi!
First pics from the Camp Map are in....
Not finished yet but heres the overall layout of the map...
https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/6096/image23xs.th.jpg (https://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image23xs.jpg)
and here's Wales with my first go at making mountains
https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/6802/image31ad.th.jpg (https://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image31ad.jpg)
Please let me know what you think....and give me tips as to what i should do.
Hi Dragoon, and welcome to the .org!
Perhaps you could help us with a problem I'm having with research, could you possibly find out anything you can about galwyddel (galloway) specifically the armies as i need to know what AoR unit they will be getting.
thanks
I can see what I can find, but I won't have access to my univerity library for another couple of weeks ( disgustingly long summer holidays ).
I will have a look around the net in the mean time.
http://www.tartans.com/articles/antoninewall.html
This site gives a description of the antonine wall ( north of Hadriens ).
The Scots/Picts/Irish it says learnt the value of Plunder...this could imply that later periods of Scottish based troops would have like a mercenary look to them, incoperating elements of roman armour.
Perhaps they could have a Romano-British/Scandanavian/Saxon look.
This is conjecture for now....but i'll keep digging.
@Ian
As you can see i got rid off the Wisigoths, at the moment i need to have a Senate/three factions thing so i went with that...For cultures i think we should do this....
Saxon (Roman)
Angles (Julii)
Saxons (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)
Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Ebrauc (Macedon)
Manau and Galwyddel (Greece)
Elmet (Thrace)
Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)
Southern British (Eastern)
Dumnonia (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)
Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (British)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Germania)
Picts (Scythia)
Strathclyde (dacia)
Middle Britons and Brittany (Carthaginian)
Gwent (Carthage)
Dyfed (Numidia)
Llydaw (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)
Well, I thought we will use the BI campaign, not the vanilla one, except if there is a way to include all of the news features into this one. As I have read there will be factions slots remaining in the BI campaign, and eventually the possibility to put more that 20 factions... we will see it later !
We talk a lot about the Wisigoths... anyway there will be wisigoths troops as rebels so no real matter.
Your bretwalda idea is a good one, but it may be a bit to hard to code at the begin. We will see if we kept it if we use vanilla campaign.
You have also add Llydaw as a playable faction. What I have think firstly was to share Brittany between Domnonia, Dyfed, rebels, maybe Gwent, because it will put another challenge to those factions.
Maybe we will finally keep a breton faction, or 3 (if possible : Kernow, Domnonée and Bro-Erec) or put them as emerging factions...
For the map, can't you up the scale to the max you can ? It will need a lot of work then, but it will be very fine.
The borders are ok ~;)
For the mountains, is it the height shown there ? Wales have a lot of provinces so we need passages ~D
If you have some satellites photos to help it will be very fine !
Anyway, continue this way, I don't know lot of things about mapping :book:
@Dragoon : nice to see another historian with us !
About the Dal Riadans and the others Gaëls, Ranika have done a lot with them, and I got a good idea of them after seeing some skins of Age of Vikings and Fanatics (they got the same units as us for the Gaëls).
For the Picts, as shown on their stones wich much carvings, they will fight unarmoured, except for their elite who will wear chain/scale mail and helmets ~:cheers:
Duke Malcolm
08-16-2005, 21:46
I have some information about certain tribes of North Britain.
Firstly, Strathclyde was a Brythonic/British Kingdom, not a Goidelic/Gaelic one.
Secondly, next to nothing is known of the Picts, however, they were not thought to be Gaels but they may have been brythonic. There is evidence of Saxon migration into Pictish lands from the continent, so perhaps they may also be slightly saxon in their ways. We don't know much about their language, but it is thought also to be a British language by many.
Firstly, Strathclyde was a Brythonic/British Kingdom, not a Goidelic/Gaelic one.
Ok about it, I guess that Ian put them with the Gaels only to put them with a culture !
It might be an option to put some saxon mercs in a part of Scotland ~D .
Some news about AoR units, with Ian's help and Ranika comments :
- Gwent : maybe christian fanatics. There was a lot of monasteries in this area. -> Christian fanatics would likely appear anywhere where Christians in the region felt threatened by outsiders
- Dyfed : a Brytho-Gael elite soldier -> this works fine; I'd recommend the Galwyddel Ymyll from St. Columba's 'Deithronnbagh', where he described some Welsh soldiers; they carried a Gaelic axe and shield, and wore bronze scale armor, but dressed like Cymrians (Welshmen); mind you 'Galwyddel' just means 'Gaelic'; the region of 'Galwyddel' was so called for the large Gaelic speaking population
- Powys : elite archers - this seems alright
- Ebrauc : an elite soldier with good romans weapons -> such soldiers were present in most of Romanized Britain as a type of quasi-elite
- Rheged : a mountain warrior, maybe mounted
- Gododdin : special cavalry, or brytho-pict unit -> Gododdin had famous longspearmen called 'Aumabellu'; perhaps that'd work, but I know little of the details
- Galwyddel : axemen maybe -> nobles from this region used two-handed wood axes sometimes, though they'd be decorated a bit
- Strathclyde : a kind of pirate? -> a swordsmen who used a longsword in two-hands would be good here; not greatswordsmen, but Strathclyders sometimes used swords with elongated grips
So I will add some of them tommorow.
Ianofsmeg16
08-16-2005, 23:51
Yeah, Agreas the reason i put in the Bretwalda Idea is because i need to edit the Descr_strat file while doing the map, therefore the Senate thing is hardcoded.
@Malcolm Iput the Strathclyde factin in the Gaels + Picts culture because i needed to find a culture for it, but i am in the process of finding out how to change a factions culture, so it won't be a problem....I think sombody in the Scriptorium asked about changing culture so I'll look in there
RTW King
08-17-2005, 09:59
Hello ATW Team. I was asked if I could do some skins for this mod, but I'm kind of busy just now but I'll try and do a couple. Theres a Pict Militia unit I made, theres a picture of it in the Britannia: Romanorum Incursio Skins thread. It might be suitable for ATW. That units still in development though.
Well, good news at all !
I will receive my new PC next week, then I will be able to scan images and I will create a ftp server to put our work online.
Thrashaholic have lot of work to do yet, so maybe someone can complete the descriptions of the following units ?
Galwyddel Ymyll
Need to control Dyfed.
The Galwyddel Ymyll from St. Columba's 'Deithronnbagh', where he described some Welsh soldiers; they carried a Gaelic axe and shield, and wore bronze scale armor, but dressed like Cymrians (Welshmen); mind you 'Galwyddel' just means 'Gaelic'; the region of 'Galwyddel' was so called for the large Gaelic speaking population
Saethwre Powys
Need to control Powys.
Composite bow, sword, coat, leather scale armor.
Rhyfelwyr Rheged
Need to control South or North Rheged.
A mountain warrior.
Sword, round shield, chain mail, throwing javelines.
Aumabellu
Need to control Gododdin.
Gododdin had famous longspearmen called 'Aumabellu'
Long spear, round shield, scale mail, coat.
Galwyddel nobles axemen*
Need to control Galwyddel.
Nobles from this region used two-handed wood axes sometimes, though they'd be decorated a bit.
Two-handed wood axes, chain mail, helmet.
Strathclyder Swordsmen*
Strathclyders who used a longsword in two-hands would be good here; not greatswordsmen, but Strathclyders sometimes used swords with elongated grips.
Sword, round shield on the back, leather cuirass, spangelhelm.
Having a more careful look at the factions, I guess it will be better (if we use vanilla factions) to do with :
Saxon (Roman)
Saxons (Julii)
Angles (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)
Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Gododdin (Macedon)
Ebrauc (Greece)
Strathclyde (Thrace)
Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)
Middle Britons (Eastern)
Elmet (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)
Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (Germania)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Britons)
Picts (Dacia)
Manau and Galwyddel (Scythia)
Southern Britons (Carthaginian)
Domnonia (Carthage)
Gwent (Numidia)
Dyfed (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)
Ianofsmeg16
08-18-2005, 13:37
Ok that sounds better, BTW i need info on the provinces of Brittany and the rest of France, any ideas Agreas?
I think you have all you need for Britain and Ireland there : https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=810478&postcount=43 ~;)
Maybe you will only need to know the location on some towns.
I have included in the list the provinces of Gaul occuped by the Britons.
GAUL, Britons :
- Kernyw - Carahès (Carhaix) -> Dyfed province (the first rulers of Kernyw were of Gwent and Dyfed origin)
- Poher - Castel Conomore -> Domnoniuan province
- Domnonée - Alet -> Domnoniuan province
- Bro-Erec - Aula Regia (Auray) -> Gwent province
- Darioritum - Darioritum (Vannes) -> rebel province (until Waroch of Bro-Erec conquest it in the late VIth century, or early VIIth, I cant remember ~D ).
A little map of Brittany that I have just made with paint ~D
https://img303.imageshack.us/img303/3571/brittany0wb.th.png (https://img303.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brittany0wb.png)
I have put differents files on a ftp server. This ftp will allow us to upload images, screenshots, files, tga... to work on the mod and to share this work much easily.
For this time I'm uploading images for our skinners to work, concept arts and others. They are in the 'art' section.
You will need a ftp client to join it (like SmartFTP or other) :
Adress : ftp.membres.lycos.fr
Login : subliminaltpe
Pass : please PM or MSN me if you want it ~D
I have found some very nice images at DBA online :
http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1182_face.jpg
Britons.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_82_figure_1.htm
Picts.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_67_figure_1.htm
Saxons.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_75a_figure_1.htm
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_75b_figure_1.htm
Welsh :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_92_figure_1.htm
Late Romans (West) :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_77a_figure_1.htm
Late Wisigoths :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_80_figure_1.htm
Patrician Romans :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_81_figure_1.htm
DBAs Irish and Scots never look appropriate; they tend to make them look like Gauls or early Britons, which is badly inaccurate, or they exaggerate things like the size of levies'/light horsemen's cloaks (giving them full-length cloaks when they should be much much shorter), and depict them with beards (which wasn't very popular at all until the viking invasions, and even then only in a few regions).
I take note of that and I edit my previous post ~:)
The most appropriate depiction DBA has of a Gaelic soldier is probably the 'warband', but the problem there is that average Gaelic soldiers in this period (and most others) mostly used axes, not swords; he looks more like lower aristocracy, and the length of his cloak is far too great for him to be a 'warband', and the beard was mentioned. The 'psiloi' they give them are all wrong; they look like Britons, and not at all Gaelic (which would look like the 'warband', but with trousers as well, a slightly shorter shirt, and a much much shorter cloak, and a sling and knife, or spears and javelins). Additionally, Gaels in this period need neck torcs (Celtic units in EB have neck torcs; they can be seen in previews and the like)
I have edited the unit list after adding some images (for Britons, Picts, Franks and Saxons).
I just borrowed "The Age of Arthur A History of the British Isles from 350 to 650 AD" its about 650 pages of research archeology and information on the post roman briton world including all the areas in your mod if you wan i can start posting information from the book if it would be helpful
I planned to buy this book but I need to command it on the net, so eventually if you have already it and if you want to work with us, you are welcome ! ~D
It's a useful book for reference, but most historians consider his conclusions to be deeply dubious- the author has a tendency to stretch paper thin evidence to breaking point in attempting to reconstruct post Roman Britain.
I borrowed it from the library, but lucky my library allows you to keep things indefinetly as long as you call every 2 weeks to tell them you want to take it out another 2 weeks. Well whats needed most? factions, faction borders for 481 AD, names, rulers, units types buildings and fortifications. Im gonan start on faction borders if you dont mind, cause this is where the author mentions alot of archeology, grave goods ect.... So it should be quite accurate. Ill get some research out later today.
Well whats needed most? factions, faction borders for 481 AD, names, rulers, units types buildings and fortifications.
You can give us :
- faction descriptions and general history to be included in the mod.
- faction borders will help to make the map.
- ok for units type if you have, this will maybe help adding new units or complete the descriptions of the existing ones.
- for buildings, I think we will work later on it, thought you can search after it.
- for the differents rulers, it is not a priority at the moment.
I have found some Frankish stuff on the web :
https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4311/frankchilderic16tg.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4918/frankchilderic0cb.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Childeric, the father of Clovis.
https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/739/frankhelmet38hm.gif (https://imageshack.us)
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4503/frankhelmet23hf.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Frankish helmets.
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6301/franksword6al.gif (https://imageshack.us)
Sword pommel and piece of scabbard from the Childeric' grave.
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2025/frankmeroboots9lo.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Merovingian boots from the VIIth century.
I update also the unit list with more Frankish units.
Mounted Antrustions (King’s Warband)
For ages, the power of the Franks tribes relied on infantry. But when they arrived in Gaul, they had to face the powerful cavalry of the Wisigoths, and of the Alemani. Then the Frankish elite begun to learn how to fight on horseback, to became centuries later the powerful frankish knights.
Gallic light cavalry
Frankish army is not only made of Frankish warriors. They can also raise some Gallo-Romans soldiers, such as those horsemen.
Few Franks are good riders, so those Gallic are a good complement to their army.
Infantry :
Antrustions
The Antrustions are the elite warriors of the Franks, and the bodyguards of the kings and princes.
Those footmen are raised and equipped from the pockets of the powerful nobles of the Franks.
After they captured Soissons in 495 the Franks had access to Roman arms factories and could equip their men better than most Germans with chainmail or scale armor, shields, spears, helms and throwing axes.
Sturdy heavy infantry.
Foederati
A lot of rankish warriors have served in the Roman army and are equipped in a slightly Roman style with chainmail, angons, helms, swords and shields. Very good attackers who throw their angons before charging.
Frankish Warriors
Tribal warriors, unarmoured but armed with shields, spears and throwing axes. A fierce barbarian levy, not organised or with great morale, but fairly nasty on the offensive.
Miles
'Miles' means 'soldiers' in latin. Those warriors are raised from the gallo-romans cities and equipped in the roman way with spear, helm and shield.
Frankish champions
Among the ranks of the frankish troops, some warriors are from the best, experts in the way of war, and of the usage of the franscica.
Chainmail, shield, franscica, coat.
Skirmishers :
Frankish Freemen
The poorest tribesmen have very few weapons and no armor. They throw javelines and then can fight with their seax, but their poor moral keep them as a skirmishing role.
Frankish archers
Thought it wasn't the weapon of the nobility, the usage of the bow is attested by his presence in a lot of frankish graves.
Frankish archers use the powerful hunnic bow, and can be very deadly but vulnerable in melee.
Good news !
I have just received my new PC, and I will install it this evening, so then I can work harder on the mod ~:)
Ianofsmeg16
08-23-2005, 20:19
Hi Guys,
Are we still making this for BI?
If so i see no point in me working on the map as for all i know the files could completely change in BI, i leave it up to you...
i know the files could completely change in BI, i leave it up to you...
As I have read in the BI FAQ, files will not change, but it still a risk that we can't use the same, thought I think there is no problem for the tga. Lot of mods team who begun work on vanilla have planned to work on BI and have always done their map, so... you can wait if you want, but you can go, it is as you wish ~D
Got a lot of problems with RTW Graphic...
But I have updated the unit list with more images, and scanned some plates from Osprey.
Here 'Pictish Warriors' :
http://membres.lycos.fr/subliminaltpe/Arthurian%20TW/Arts/Picts/Pict_shiltron.jpg
Picts versus Strathclyders Britons, maybe the battle shown on the Aberlamno stone.
http://membres.lycos.fr/subliminaltpe/Arthurian%20TW/Arts/Picts/Pict_warriors.jpg
Pict Mormaer and Pict pikeman.
http://membres.lycos.fr/subliminaltpe/Arthurian%20TW/Arts/Picts/Pict_weaponry.jpg
Pictish weaponry.
Ianofsmeg16
08-27-2005, 09:26
Hey, We could use the banner the Strathclyders are holding as a banner for strathclyde, Green dragon on a white field
This is a PM bdh send me on TWC :
i don't know if you've heard or not, but i've been working on a map for rtr and imperia romana that is 5x the size of the current rtw map, but due to a small error the map became 25 times the size of the rtw map.
if you like, i could give you the map_heights.tga part of the map that contains britain. it is vairly complete and rather nice. i could even modify it somewhat so that the mountains stand out more (in the original they were downsized to be in comparison with other larger mountains)
from there you could do all the other parts of the map based on that fairly quickly
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...82&page=4&pp=20
heres a pic if you would like to see
the main map is at the bottom of the thread.
if you need britain bigger, i have lots of data i can use to remake a bigger one fairly quickly
So Ian, I guess he will make a very good map for the scale and the heights, then all you will have to do is to add the provinces and such things, the task will be much easier for you !
Ianofsmeg16
08-27-2005, 14:38
yes, tell him yes!!!!
I have done a better province map, but not included irish and gallic provinces yet.
https://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4999/map033ee.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Will Ireland be divided up further? Ulster needs to be cut up to have Dalriatta/Orgallia (the eastern coast of Ulster, controlled by Dal Riada), with the rest being appropriately divided and under the control of the Ui Neill; at least 2 provinces, with Ard Macha (Armagh) and Emain Macha (Navan). Mide could just be one province maybe, but should be a bit larger, and have Teamhaidh (not Tara or Teamhair; those names weren't used yet). The Mumainha only controlled Munster, but it was divided in three/four regions; Tuadmumu (Thomond/northern Munster), Urmumu (southern Munster), Desmumu (eastern Munster), and Ogaillon ('Galway'). Laigin (Leinster) was divided in two to three regions depending on the time (Orriagh in the northwest, Laigin in the south, and Roirragh/Bregan in the northeast). Connacht was divided into a few regions as well, Ard Mammo (Mayo), Amroi (southern Connacht), Inista (the islands), and Ogaillon ('Galway'; sometimes, actually more often under control of Connacht).
Yes, I plan to PM you about it for the location of the differents irish provinces, this is the curent list we have :
IRELAND :
- Ulaidh – Raithmor
- Oirgaillia – Ard Macha (Armagh)
- Ui Neillia – Cenell Neill
- Cenell Riada - ?
- Laigin - Dun Ailinne
- Connaght – Cruachu
- Tuad - Killardan
- Midhe - Teamhaidh
- Desmumu - Caiseal
- Eoghanaght – Orliglin
- Inisharanna - Inishmhor
It seems that you have more provinces in your previous message, or the more provinces we had, the better it is ! For the Britons, I have add some provinces/kingdoms that don't exist at the start date (like Bro-Erec, Caer-Wenddoleu...) but will help have a lot of provinces.
So can you list all the provinces like this, with their cities, and made a very simple map to show me their location ?
Here a map background :
https://img250.imageshack.us/img250/6057/ireland5hb.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Those are all fine provinces; I'll see about making a rather simple map. Dividing up the larger regions would be nice (considering the size of British provinces); so cutting Connacht in three would be nice. However, on that map, you don't have the isles, so I don't know if you'd intend to use it as a province.
Maybe the main isles, you can draw them quicly like I have done on the original map for Man, Mona, Tanet and Wight ~:)
Atheist_Peace
08-27-2005, 21:45
This mod looks very cool, are you guys making any good progress?
Sorry that sounded stupid and rude, what i mean is like do you guys have realistic hopes for a release and do you have a good base of progress on your mod?
Ianofsmeg16
08-27-2005, 22:27
Maybe the main isles, you can draw them quicly like I have done on the original map for Man, Mona, Tanet and Wight ~:)
So are the Provinces of Britain sorted, it's just Ireland, Frankia and Pictland that need sorting....
Sorry that sounded stupid and rude, what i mean is like do you guys have realistic hopes for a release and do you have a good base of progress on your mod?
Most of the stuff we have done so far is research, and as this time is not very well documented,we need all the research we get..
i have done some work on the map but i am waiting for confirmation from agreas about bdh cutting up his HUGE map for us
i already sent it out ~;)
its only the heights though.....so have fun doing EVERYTHING else smeg :grin3:
https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/bdhh/britain2.jpg
Ianofsmeg16
08-28-2005, 09:55
thats Awesome BDH, you certainly saved me some work, how did you get the map to be so realistic?
Most of the stuff we have done so far is research, and as this time is not very well documented,we need all the research we get..
Much of the research work is done :
UNITS RESEARCH
- we got all briton units (except one or two more AoR units), Thrashaholic will finish the descriptions.
- we got all gaelic units.
- we got all pictish units, Spongly have to done descriptions of our last find ~;)
- we got the main part of the saxon standart units, we need their AoR units.
- we lack of the units names and accurates descriptions for the Franks units, they will also recruit gallic, goths, burgondes and alemani units when conquest their respective territory.
PROVINCES RESEARCH
- we have completed Briton and Saxon provinces lists, thought lack of cities names for the Saxon.
- same for the Picts
- as you see, Ranika will show us the differents irish provinces ~;)
- Brittany is done.
- we lack of Gaul civitas
FACTIONS RESEARCH
- faction list is done
- factions descriptions are to make, but no emergency !
- we got ideas for faction symbols but need other ones ~D
So...
Ian is working on the map, I think it will be easiest for him with BDH great help :bow:
We don't know much so far about the new tools BI will had for modders... hoping it will be great (and easy !).
Nobody in the team got strong experience on modding RTW thought ~:handball:
Holidays are going to their end, it means less time for us (for my part I will have a computer at Brest where I do my studies, but not until one or two months, anyway I will go back home the weekend).
And no skinner/modeler yet :embarassed:
I think BI will attract more people to work on the mod.
I really want to carry out this project. Since my first computer I wanted a game to play Arthur and the Britons, and today I can do it with the RTW engine, so... I hope that one day we both play on Arthurian TW ~;)
This has some further stuff added; not very pretty, lacks the settlement placements/names, but has provinces.
https://img93.imageshack.us/img93/9766/ireland5hb5hz.th.jpg (https://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ireland5hb5hz.jpg)
great news, my big map (now made smaller) is working. its 3x the size of rtr map. Here's a pic of britain. imagine that, except less flat ;)
https://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=briton7oq.jpg
@Ranika
That's exactly what we need ! ~D
I have updated the map with your provinces ~:)
https://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5428/map035rw.th.jpg (https://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map035rw.jpg)
Can you check the following list, give me the capital for each (and if possible the actual name), maybe the faction who belongs the territory at the beginning for some rebels provinces ? (Also useful for 'Rebels' factions, and of course if one day we can have more than 20 factions we will add the others Irish factions).
IRELAND, Dal Riada :
- Dal Riatta - ?
IRELAND, Ui Neill :
- Ulaidh – Raithmor
- Oirulaidh -
- Ui Neillia – Cenell Neill
- Oirgaillia – Ard Macha (Armagh)
IRELAND, Mumainha :
- Tuad - Killardan
- Desmumu - Caiseal
- Urmumu - Orliglin
- Gabhonnaoi??
IRELAND, Rebels :
- Mide - Teamhaidh (Tara)
- Goirmide -
- Oiriagh -
- Roirragh -
- Inisharanna - Inishmhor
- Laigin - Dun Ailinne
- Ard Mammo – Cruachu
- Oigallion -
- Amroi -
- Sloaigha -
Eventually (if you have time to do so) you can add the capital by just a black point in each province ~:)
Also, have you got some ideas for more pictish provinces ? Like Domon or Skye maybe ? Shetlands isles will also be featured.
BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - Catichean
- Fidach - Craig Phadrig?
- Ce - Cechean (Keith)
- Circind - Aberlemno?
- Fotla - Restenneth
- Fortiu - Dundurn?
- Fibb - Abernethy
- Aerdrognan (Orkney) - Aerdrognan
BRITAIN, Dal Riada :
- Cenell Baetain - Iona?
- Cenell Loairn - ?
- Cenell Gabrain - Dunadd
@BDH
Awesome... ~:cheers:
Some minor errors in province allocation, but looking good. Settlement locations, except those that remain present in some way, are pretty hard to determine; my suggestion is to place them in the most strategic pain-in-the-ass region as possible (that's how they placed their cities and forts, so it makes sense to do so). Some that are known: Eahmain Macha (modern Navan), Ard Macha (modern Armagh), Cruacha (relatively close to Castlebar, though it actually seems to have moved a bit), Killardan (a little southwest of Limerick, but still on the coast), Breganna (modern Wicklow was built over it), Orligin (Cork was developed out of Orligin). I know I'm missing a few, but that should help, I hope.
Province name - Settlement name - Rebels name (Done by the local controlling tribe or 'sub-kingdom' name)
IRELAND, Dal Riada :
- Dal Riatta - Dun Ranma (This is the name of the fortress on the coast according to the 'West' cycle, that was captured by the Ui Neill, and effectively expelled the Dal Riadan kingdom from Ireland (though the Dal Riadans still acted as if they were one of the kingdoms)) - Dal Riatta
IRELAND, Ui Neill :
- Ulaidh – Raithmor - Volunta
- Oirulaidh - Eahmain Macha - Eoradha
- Ui Neillia – Cenell Neill - Ui Neill
- Oirgaillia – Ard Macha - Ui Daron
- Mide - Teamhaidh - Ui Oir Neill ('East Niells'; the Ui Neill controlled Teamhaidh as defacto leaders at the time, hence their later claims to 'proper' title of high king, though eventually the east Niells split from the rest of the Ui Neill; also important to note, this is not a big place at the time, it was originally intended just for the families of those who worked in the temples/churches at the hills, so it hadn't really built up much yet)
IRELAND, Mumainha :
- Tuad - Killardan - Ui Broann
- Desmumu - Caiseal - Ui Cormac
- Urmumu - Orliglin - Ui Conchobar
- Gabhonnaoi (Yes, this should be Mumainha, Conglach of Desmumu controlled the chiefs here as his vassals) - Mondonnan - Gabhona
IRELAND, Rebels :
- Goirmide - Dun Rann - Ui Conn
- Oiriagh - Dun Riagh - Riaghan
- Roirragh - Breganna - Braigan
- Inisharanna - Inishmhor - Aranna
- Laigin - Dun Ailinne - Laigini
- Ard Mammo – Cruachu - Connaghta
- Oigallion - Dun Badon - Badon
- Amroi - Dun Amroi - Amroi
- Sloaigha - Rethconn - Relliagh
Ok, I have updated the map and the province list in consequence ~:)
Atheist_Peace
08-29-2005, 21:34
Just to let everyone know, you can find Arthurian TW's official forum here: http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?act=idx
~:)
We will take this thread active thought, but it is far clearest to have one thread per important subject ~D
A Saxon axeman :
http://membres.lycos.fr/subliminaltpe/Arthurian TW/Arts/Saxons/Saxon_axeman.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/subliminaltpe/Arthurian TW/Arts/Saxons/Saxon_axeman2.jpg
This one can be a special unit for one of the factions ? A kind of champion unit ?
We have decided to make Ynis Manaw a very special faction, Manx can recruit both briton and gaelic units. This is their unit list so far :
As decided, the Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel faction will have a mix of Gaelic and Britons units. At the period their elite was brythonic so they will be able to recruit elite briton units.
Cavalry :
https://img364.imageshack.us/img364/949/britonmarchomawr0qp.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Marchomawr (Heavy cavalry)
Britons were well known in the dark ages for their cavalry. In the poem 'y Gododdin', by the bard Aneurin, 300 British horsemen fought Angle invaders at Cathraeth in the kingdom of Gododdin and only one returned, Aneurin himself. The Machromawr are made up of men from the richest warrior households who can afford a good horse, a spatha, a round shield, a spangelhelm and chain mail or scale armour. These well armoured powerful horsemen make a formidable opponent, but must be commanded correctly to be truly devestating in battle.
(Very expensive, strong charge, good attack, good defense, small unit, sword or/and spear, scale or chain mail armor, spangelhem, red cloack, round shield).
https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/2241/britonmarchogluoedd7dd.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Marchogluoedd (Light cavalry)
Britain's wide variety of landscapes meant certain kingdoms, where the land was flatter and more horse-friendly, employed very cavalry oriented armies; the Marchogluoedd were the fast agile scouts of these armies. Riding the fastest horses their land could muster, these lightly armed and lightly armoured warriors would rush ahead of the main host peppering the enemies with javelins and making careful observations and reporting enemy positions to their commanders. These scouts wore no armour and carried no weapons apart from their javelins, which could of course act as improvised spears, as such they sould be kept as far away from combat as possible.
Guirran
(Horsemen with javelins, and an axe/spear in melee, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
Description - Gaelic light cavalry sticks to the common methods of Gaelic combat. They are skirmishers by default, meant to ride toward an opponent, throw javelins, and retreat, ad infinitum. Training and experience has made them fairly good at this, and the Guirran (horsemen), later called hobblers or hobilars, became a staple of English and French armies as well.
Teulu
Literally meaning “family”, the Teulu were the professional noble bodyguards of individual princes and chieftains. Although cavalry are generally not best suited to the rough hilly and mountainous terrain of Britain, the Teulu often rode into battle. Being of the nobility, the Teulu could afford the best of military equipment and were very well armed by Celtic standards: they wore chain or scale mail and helmets, and carried a shield and a lance, making them a pivotal force on the battlefield.
Strong charge
Very good Attack
Good Morale
Armoured
(Should be pretty expensive)
Infantry :
Rherel (Heavy spearmen)
Gwaywffynabwre (clan spearmen)
Bonheddwyr
The Bonheddwyr were free nobles, the elite foot soldiers of a Chieftain’s armies. Before a battle these champions would often walk forward in front of their army insulting, taunting and challenging their opposition (much to the amusement of their fellows), and be accompanied by shouting and jeering from the lower ranking men, and the din of their war trumpets. The Bonheddwr were lightly armoured, and the individual carried a spear, a small round shield and several javelins into battle.
40 man unit
fast
strong charge
very good attack
good defence
armoured
good morale
https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/825/britonrhyfelwyrmawr4hz.jpg (https://imageshack.us) https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/8460/britonrhyfelwyrmawr29pj.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Rhyfelwyrmawr
"Great Warriors"
Campwyrau (Champions)
Rherel Manau (Heavy Manx Spearmen)
The Isle of Man is a tiny Island that lies in a Strategic position in the middle of the Irish Sea, therefore All manner of peoples look at it with hunger. This could be seen as a downfall or a reason to flee yet Mannanan and his heirs re-worked the army, producing armoured spearmen to fend off the raiders that come from Ireland, Rheged and and Gwynedd.
These men are perfectly equipped to fight in the hills of Mann. Disciplined, well armoured yet agile, the Manx Spearmen make a living out of fighting for their existence. They are recruited from the nobles or families with enought money to buy the Chainmail and heavy spears they take into battle.
Galwyddel nobles axemen*
Need to control Galwyddel.
Nobles from this region used two-handed wood axes sometimes, though they'd be decorated a bit.
Two-handed wood axes, chain mail, helmet.
Kernbannal
('Levy Troop'; unarmored club or spear militia with darts, fight as skirmishers)-
Description - The hierarchy of Gaelic societies is a bit unusual; it lacks feudal nobles and the subsequent varying ranks of nobles and peasants. However, Kerns tend to fall near the bottom. Without much money or inherent fighting ability, they cannot afford good equipment, nor are they likely to be sponsored by an arras (aristocrat). However, that matters little. Most of the time, a kern is just a man called up to form a militia in times of strife, and fight with whatever is on hand; usually hunting spears or solid clubs, accompanied by light, small javelins, often called darts. Later, kerns would become the basic soldier of Irish armies, but in this period are only militia.
Sleanaghta
(Spearmen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather vest/coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The slea or gae (spear) is the preferred weapon of most Gaelic soldiers. Accompanied with heavy throwing spears and a solid Gaelic targe, these spearmen form the backbone of any Gaelic army. They are professional soldiers, who either bought their equipment, or were sponsored by a wealthier member of society. They are intended to hold positions, and are often placed around missile troops to defend them from cavalry and any other threats that might occur.
Tuanaghta
(Axemen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The tua (axe) is one of the oldest and most favored weapons of the Gaels. The Gaelic axe has a particularly weighty head, meant to crush helmets and smash shields. With it, like most Gaels carry, are carried two heavy throwing spears, thrown into an enemy position before a charge. The Gaelic axemen act as a kind of bridge between medium and heavy infantry.
Gaemornaghta
(Spearmen with long, two-handed spears (not actually pikes though), maybe use phalanx, or schiltron, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The Gaemor or Gaemhor (great spear) is a lengthy spear generally used in two hands. It is used in a tight formation as an anti-cavalry and anti-infantry measure; it is difficult to manuever past a wall of spear heads. While in use for centuries, this type of soldier grew increasingly more common among the Gaels as the dark ages and middle ages drove on; a response to the growing importance of cavalrymen.
Caeisornaghta
(Gaelic macemen, with a round-headed mace {not flanged, like medieval period mace} or modified work hammer, round shield, throwing spears, leather helmet, padded armor) -
Description - The mace is an old, simple weapon. While popularized widely in Europe by the advent of plate armor, Gaels, the Irish particularly, have used the mace for centuries, with a smooth spherical or egg-shaped head, or a hammer head. They are another arm of Gaelic infantry, and fight like axe or spearmen, with heavy spears thrown before a charge. The mace is essentially a glorified club, but it is very effective against most types of armor and any shield.
Bowmen and skirmishers :
Soikernbannal
('Levy Archer Troop'; only Gaelic archers they would have, levy archers with knives, hooded cloaks, hide in tall grass, but not really much good) -
Description - Gaels rarely employ professional archers as soldiers, except mercenaries. They, personally, see little value in archers. However, when they do employ their own, they tend to be simple levies of hunters, who, while proficient with their bows, are not soldiers, and easily chased off of a battlefield if engaged not properly defended, or if engaged in a melee.
Maiobhanaghta
(Gaelic slingers with knives and a small round shield, padded armor, leather helmet, better than their archers, and slings are substantially longer range than a normal bow) -
Description - The sling is still a popular weapon among the Gaels. It is far longer range than a regular bow, and a sling bullet of clay or stone is surprisingly deadly. Slingers in use by the Gaelic often are used to harass an enemy from great distance. Further, they are professional soldiers, not levies like Gaelic archers.
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8975/britonsaethwre6ya.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Saethwre (bowmen)
Rhyfelwyr
"Warrior"
Constant in fighting between the petty kingdoms of post-Roman Britain and skirmishes with the English led to the Britons becoming accustomed to war, they became a “jack of all trades”, perfectly suited to irregular warfare. Carrying a powerful bow, that could pin a horseman’s leg to his horse, a large sword and a small round shield, the prominent tactics of the Britons were to ambush the enemy, pepper them with arrows and then charge in for the kill.
60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
poor morale
https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/54/britonardu2ru.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Ardu (Levies)
Ianofsmeg16
08-31-2005, 16:00
A very good Manx History Page (http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/hist1900/ch12.htm) , i havent read all of it, but from what i read you are right in your assumption that the Manx Were a mix of Gaelic and Breton, But it does make numerous references to a Manx language.
also it isnt Rosien in the Cashtal Rosien, it is Ruisen
It is rather out-of-date, and has a very despotic view of Gaelic brehonism (far more despotic than it is understood to be today; but, this was written in 1900, and we knew fairly little then about Gaelic government due to banning and burning texts from earlier periods, though much has thankfully been rediscovered) and the development of Mann and Ireland, but the general information seems alright.
Our 2 first skins, made by Spirit_of_Rob. They are WIP.
https://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1161/atwretainersa0tn.jpg
Saxon 'Cnithas' or mounted retainers.
https://img359.imageshack.us/img359/774/marchanmodelwip6dq.jpg
Pictish Marchan.
Ianofsmeg16
09-03-2005, 10:46
I Just want to let you guys know that i'll be away in Utah for 9 days so i won't be able to get any work done, i'll try and pop into an internet cafe so i can look into whats happening, but work on the map will stop (i was in the process of doing map_ground types.tga
RTW King
09-03-2005, 11:18
Want me to do any skins?
As you want RTW King, thought most of the skins will now require some modeling also.
Just go on our forum and see in the different threads what unit you like to try to model (except Irish, we may have a solution for them).
I'll be away too, for my studies, I come back the weekend in one or two weeks (thought I shall try to find a cyber-café).
Atheist_Peace
09-03-2005, 16:30
As Agraes says, just go to their forum. Anyway, spirit_of_rob did a good job.
Our first briton unit : The Campwyrau (Champions), made by blindfaithnogod :
https://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8397/campwyrau29vs.jpg
https://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8507/campwyrau7zo.jpg
https://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8674/campwyrau37oy.jpg
The Aulue (town militia) made by blindfaithnogod :
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9148/aulue6yu.jpg
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4040/aulue21dz.jpg
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7993/aulue33wu.jpg
Ianofsmeg16
10-03-2005, 17:26
Some more skins, just to show you we're still here~:cheers:
Cheers to Blindfaithnogood for our his awesome skins, hope you enjoy!
Marchomawr (Heavy cavalry)
https://img25.imageshack.us/img25/553/marcho22vd6sf.th.jpg (https://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marcho22vd6sf.jpg)
https://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6532/marcho8oh2xv.th.jpg (https://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marcho8oh2xv.jpg)
Draconarii (Standard Bearers)
https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/8229/draco6vs8jw.th.jpg (https://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=draco6vs8jw.jpg)
https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7135/draco44ln8xp.th.jpg (https://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=draco44ln8xp.jpg)
Rherel (Heavy spearmen)
https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/5761/rherel3jm6ya.th.jpg (https://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rherel3jm6ya.jpg)
https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6196/rherel22pt4fy.th.jpg (https://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rherel22pt4fy.jpg)
Once again, thans to Blindfaith for his excellent skins and hopefully i can get some more work done on the map to show you guys, maybe we can get someone to work on some sigs for you lot aswell ~:cheers:
blindfaithnogod
10-03-2005, 23:12
also the older models and skins have been updated take a look here for screen shots (http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?showforum=44).
blindfaithnogod
10-10-2005, 00:48
screens...
https://img74.imageshack.us/img74/650/strathclyder2ja.th.jpg (https://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strathclyder2ja.jpg)
https://img310.imageshack.us/img310/4720/standardmounted2vd.th.jpg (https://img310.imageshack.us/my.php?image=standardmounted2vd.jpg)
https://img277.imageshack.us/img277/4608/marcacontwn27uq.th.jpg (https://img277.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marcacontwn27uq.jpg)
https://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3901/aeson5lk.th.jpg (https://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aeson5lk.jpg)
al'Callaendor
10-13-2005, 03:08
continue :thumbsup:
Latest works of blindfaithnogod :)
All of those are WIP
https://img74.imageshack.us/img74/650/strathclyder2ja.jpg
https://img438.imageshack.us/img438/8072/strathclydernew1nv.jpg
Strathclyders
https://img441.imageshack.us/img441/539/marcallydaw2sk.jpg
Marca Llydaw
https://img441.imageshack.us/img441/742/galwyddelnoble5sh.jpg
https://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3760/galwyddelnoble20ew.jpg
Galwyddel nobles axemen
https://img417.imageshack.us/img417/750/ardu6wz.jpg
https://img205.imageshack.us/img205/163/ardu26ij.jpg
Ardu
https://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7871/galwydell33sa.jpg
https://img473.imageshack.us/img473/1135/galwyddel40ai.jpg
Galwyddel Ymill
al'Callaendor
10-21-2005, 22:06
nice~:)
Latest WIPs :
Reworked Galwyddel Ymill :
https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a153/blindfaithnogod/galwyddel.jpg
Saxon Gesithas (Companions) :
https://img455.imageshack.us/img455/6118/gesithas0xj.jpg
https://img455.imageshack.us/img455/4083/gesithas25qj.jpg
Saxon Heortwerod :
https://img425.imageshack.us/img425/733/heorth9ju.jpg
https://img425.imageshack.us/img425/6625/heorth35bl.jpg
https://img425.imageshack.us/img425/4005/heorth25sl.jpg
Latest WIPs (thanks to Atilla Reloaded and Lusted for allowing us to use their skins).
Marchogluoedd
https://img489.imageshack.us/img489/8351/marchogleudd5xt.png
https://img489.imageshack.us/img489/3597/marchogleudd25co.png
Helwyr
https://img489.imageshack.us/img489/6384/helwyr4xs.png
https://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?showtopic=551&st=40
Alternative Campwyrau
https://img452.imageshack.us/img452/6980/campwyrau34ks.png
https://img492.imageshack.us/img492/1812/camp13gd.jpg
Alternative Rherel
https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2070/rherel8vd.jpg
Alternative Aulue
https://img276.imageshack.us/img276/1134/aulue3ux.jpg
This mod is so cool! :bow:
Antagonist
11-15-2005, 19:01
I agree. This mod is looking better all the time.
Keep it up ~:)
Antagonist
Myrddraal
11-15-2005, 20:10
Good stuff, I'm especially liking the Heortwerod and Alternative Rherel :smile:
Thanks ~:)
Here the Arweision in two different models :
https://img434.imageshack.us/img434/5717/arw4xw.png
https://img434.imageshack.us/img434/6867/arw27fq.png
The Saethwre
https://img434.imageshack.us/img434/3081/sae4vd.png
And I forget to show you Arthur himself :
https://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7491/arthur6tq.jpg
I dig up this old, very old thread now as we are getting very close from the public release. Ill list up the previews.
List of the previews:
Arthurian TW Preview 26th June: Campaign Map
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=66334
Arthurian: Total War Private Beta
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65121
Arthurian TW Preview 25th May: Engle & Ebrauc
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65122
Arthurian TW Preview 7th May: The Seaxe/Saxons
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=64393
Arthurian TW Preview 18th April: Picts and Gododdin
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63744
Arthurian: Total War Trailer#1
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63314
Arthurian TW Preview 17th March: Ui Neill & Rheged
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62569
Arthurian TW Preview 2d March: Gwent & Powys
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=61907
Arthurian TW sneak peak
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=61224
Arthurian TW Preview 26th January: Dyfneint
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=60261
Arthurian: Total War Map and Icon Preview
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=58981&highlight=arthurian
Mod release is planned for the 5th September :2thumbsup:
Check here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1232164#post1232164
Is chrismas this year in September or why are scores of fascinating mods being released right now. Not that I complain, of course...
https://img162.imageshack.us/img162/7567/grandopeningcj9.jpg
Arthurian: Total War v0.6
Megaupload:
http://www.megaupload.com/fr/?d=6HHK8X9M
Filefront:
http://files.filefront.com//;5474795;;/
Badongo:
http://www.badongo.com/file/1355226
More links to come!
INSTALLATION:
Make sure you got a clean BI 1.6 installation, eventually make a backup of it.
Unpack the whole file. You must use WinRar to do so.
You can download WinRar here: http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
Open the "ArthurianTW" folder.
Select the files inside the folder, copy them, and paste them in your Rome - Total War directory.
Then make a shortcut. Select RomeTW-BI shortcut, copy it and paste the shortcut on your desktop.
It is highly advised to use some commands to help find errors.
The most important one is -show_err. Right click on your shortcut, select properties, you will see the target of the shortcut. Add -show_err at the end of the target.
Make sure you will launch the game with the shortcut.
:idea2:
Very good job
i like the population growth this way!!!
Patches - for more info check here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61126
Patch 0.61
http://rapidshare.de/files/32362119/..._0.61.rar.html
http://www.megaupload.com/fr/?d=FCFY1NR0
Patch 0.62
http://www.badongo.com/file/1430233
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CRKIQPRO
[u]Patch v0.62b[/b]
This small patch will hopefully correct those bugs associated with ATW v0.62:
- the Caer Mincip bug: when conquered, selecting this town caused a CTD
- the random CTD on AI turn: apparently due to a typo error in the script file. Please report if it still happens.
On the "Post-battle CTD": This one happens sometimes when clicking on "occupy/enslave/slaughter" after having won against an army reinforced by the settlement's garrison the player was besieging. It is not constant, and only happen when the garrison is slaughtered in the battle and can't reform an army inside the town. We haven't been able to correct it, it seems linked with harcoded issues and happens with other mods. But it can be avoided, either by:
1. Auto-resolving the battle - Auto-resolved battles tend to let more survivors in the ennemy army.
2. Avoiding to wipe out the entire garrison in the battle.
3. Retreating from the battle.
4. Leaving the siege and attacking approaching stacks.
5. Attacking a nearby stack before starting to siege the settlement. If the garrison come in this circomstance, and if you wipe out both armies you will be able to size the settlement without any issue.
Both solutions can kill a bit the gameplay. Make a proper save before such a battle. Avoid to load a quick save or an autosave when you are besieging a settlement. The bug seems to be linked with those saves, even if it haven't been confirmed either or not it happens only when loading a quick/autosave and fighting such a battle when the siege was already established.
The Arthurian TW team
Download it here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ROKYIBU
Total War Center Modding Awards have just begin. You can vote for ATW (or other mods of course ;) ) in the following categories:
Best BI Era Mod Award (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88382)
Best RTW Battle Map Experience (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88392)
Most Helpful/Responsive Modding Team (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88384)
Best RTW Units Art Award (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88389)
Creative Mapping Award (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88388)
Best RTW Strategic Map Experience (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88391)
Antagonist
05-19-2007, 12:24
Here, for the purpose of posterity, is the link to our latest preview:
Arthurian Total War: The Raven-Feeders (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=85574)
Antagonist
master412160
07-09-2010, 09:54
Where is teh download link for this mod ?
Myrddraal
07-12-2010, 02:12
A quick look in the Mod Downloads forums gave me this:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?69771-Arthurian-Total-War-(08-09-06)
Although I think there is a more recent version here:
Download and install this:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=86SS0YOK
Then this:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EMAQE88L
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