Names

[Rodion Romanovich]

Suggestions for in-game names:


SCOTS
=====
- MALE FIRST NAMES:
Aed
Ainbhcellach
Alpin/Elpin
Argyle
Blaine
Brennan
Brian
Briodhan
Broidhan
Brude
Cadgain
Cinaed/Ciniod/Connad/Kineth (Kenneth)
Comhghall
Conall/Canaul
Conan
Connor
Constaighnan (Constantine)
Domangart
Domnall
Donovan
Drustan
Dwayne
Eochaid
Eoghan
Ferchar
Fergal
Fergus
Garbhan
Gallagher
Goighan
Guy
Iomchadh
Lonan
Maelduin
Muireadach
Murtagh
Nechtan/Nechton
Niall/Niel
Oengus/Onuist
Ranika/Raniga/Raighnaigha (must be included as thanks ~D for all help)
Riordan
Ronan
Seanan
Seighin
Talorcen/Talorgen
Tanaidh
Tighearnach
Troidhan
Turlough/Turlac

- SURNAMES:
Boroime
Caidhbornan
Caidhfielth
Dal Conna
Dal Cruiddha
Dal Riada
Dal Sci
Derrontae
Dorgoth
Dragonach
Kintaraeta
Lotorae
mac Alpin
mac Argyle
mac Bridei
mac Connall
mac Derile/Derelei
mac Drustan
mac Eochaid
mac Fergus
mac Nechtan
mac Niel
mac Lonan
mac Oengus
mac Talorcan
mac Uuredech

- FEMALE NAMES:
Ailbhe
Aoife
Ana
Blaithnaid
Brighid
Cathan
Ceara
Cliodhna
Dunfhlaith
Echna
Emer
Fainche
Fiachara
Laoghaire
Laoise
Lasairfhiona
Muireann
Muirin
Oona
Riona
Roisin
Saorla
Sarnait
Teffia
Tuathla
Tuilelaith
Uaine
Una

IRISH
====
- MALE FIRST NAMES:
Aed
Ainbhcellach
Alpin/Elpin
Argyle
Brian
Briodhan
Broidhan
Brennan
Cadgain
Cinaed/Ciniod/Connad/Kineth (Kenneth)
Comhghall
Conall/Canaul
Conan
Connor
Conchobar
Domnall
Donn
Donovan
Dwayne
Eochaid
Eoghan
Feradach
Fergal
Fergus
Gallagher
Garret
Goighan
Guy
Iomchadh
Lonan
Maelduin
Muireadach
Murtagh
Nechtan/Nechton
Niall/Niel
Ranika/Raniga/Raighnaigha (must be included as thanks ~D for all help)
Riordan
Ronan
Ross
Ruairc
Seanan
Seighin
Tadg
Tanaidh
Tighearnach
Troidhan

- SURNAMES:
Boroime
Dal Aranna
Dal Cais
Dal Coinn
Dal Danna
mac Aed
mac Conchobar
mac Ross
mac Tigernan
Ui Aan
Ui Aedhor
Ui Aran
Ui Cairn
Ui Conna
Ui Cuinnaghta
Ui Diarmat
Ui Diodhan
Ui Domnall
Ui Errain
Ui Ivernan
Ui Kanlae/Kanlae
Ui Mumai
Ui Niall
Ui Niell
Ui Rilleigh
Ui Riordan
Ui Ruairc
Ui Sloighan

- FEMALE NAMES:
Ailbhe
Aoife
Ana
Blaithnaid
Brighid
Cathan
Ceara
Cliodhna
Dunfhlaith
Echna
Emer
Fainche
Fiachara
Laoghaire
Laoise
Lasairfhiona
Muireann
Muirin
Oona
Riona
Roisin
Saorla
Sarnait
Teffia
Tuathla
Tuilelaith
Uaine
Una


PAPAL STATES
===========
MALE FIRST NAMES
- These are based on list of Popes from around 600 AD to 1100 AD (most of those picked from outside 843 to 1099 very also used between those dates so I don't think this list needs any changes):
Alexander
Anastasius
Benedictus
Bonifacius
Bonifatius
Celestinus
Clemens
Damasus
Deusdedit
Eugenius
Felix
Gregorius
Honorius
Innocens
Ioannes
Lando
Leo
Lucius
Marinus
Martinus
Nicholas
Nicholaus
Paulus
Romanus
Sabinianus
Sergius
Severinus
Silvester
Stephanus
Theodorus
Urbanus
Valentinius
Victor
Vigilius
Vitalianus

RUS
===
- Based on names of Kievan Rus rulers and Riurik dynasty rulers (only Riurik and Oleg):
Riurik/Rurik
Oleg
Anund
Askold
Dir
Igor
Sviatoslav
Yaropolk
Vladimir
Sviatopolk
Yaroslav
Iziaslav
Vseslav
Vsevolod
- Later monarchs, perhaps not applicable (in order of decreasing usefulness for this mod, i.e. in this case chronological time order):
Mstislav
Vyacheslav
Yuri
Rostislav
Mstislav
Gleb
Mikhalko
Roman
Ingvar
Rostislav
Mstislav
Mikhail
Danylo
Alexander

- Female:
Olga

FRANCE
======
- Based on Carolingian and Capetian dynasty names:
Philip
Pepin
Charles
Louis
Carloman
Odo
Robert
Raoul
Hugh
Henry
- Based on merovingian dynasty (therefore perhaps not good to include) and carolingian mayors of palace before carolingian dynasty begun. In order to descreasing usefulness for the mod (i.e. in reverse chronological time order):
Arnulf
Childeric
Dagobert
Childebert
Clovis
Theuderic
Clotaire
Sigebert
Charibert
Guntram
Charibert
Chilperic
Theudebert

NORMANDY
========
Rollo
William
Richard
Robert
William
Robert
- Perhaps out of time frame (rulers after 1100 AD):
Henry
Stephen

- Possible "Cognomina" by vices and virtues:
Longsword
the Devil
the Bastard
the Conqueror
Curthose

WELSH
=====
Dafydd
- Based on Deheubart rulers:
Howell
Owain
Rhodri
Edwin
Maredudd
Cynan
Edwin
Cadell
Llywelyn
Rhydderch
Hywel
Gruffydd
Rhys

- These "surnames" were assigned like this: a son of Edwin of the name X would get the name X ab Edwin. Can't be implemented though, so I guess the best system is to simply let these "surnames" be randomly chosen in the standard way.
ap Hywel
ab Owain
ab Einion
ap Seisyll
ap Iestyn
ab Edwin
ap Rhydderch
ap Llywelyn
ap Tewdwr

- Based on Gwynedd rulers:
Rhodri
Caradog
Cynan
Hywel
Merfyn
Anarawd
Idwal
Iago
Ieuaf
Cadwallon
Maredudd
Llywelyn
Gruffydd
Bleddyn
Rhiwallon
Trahern

- "Surnames" of Gwynedd rulers:
ap Idwal
ap Meirion
ap Rhodri
ab Caradog
ap Gwriad
ap Merfyn
ap Rhodri
ap Anarawd
ap Cadell
ab Idwal
ap Ieuaf
ap Owain
ap Seisyll
ap Meurig
ap Llywelyn
ap Cynfyn
ap Cynan
- Based on other Welsh kingdoms:
Owain
Iestyn
Rhydderch
Nowy
Arthfael
Edwyn
Meurig
Cadwgan
Bleddyn
Madog
Iorwerth
Cadwgan
- Surnames:
ap Gwriad
ap Nowy
ap Elisedd
ap Meurig
ap Gruffydd
ap Gwrgan
ap Cynfyn
ap Bleddyn
- Possible "cognomina", perhaps caused by vices and virtues:
Wledig (imperator)
Yrth (impetuous)
Lawhir (long hand)
Hir (tall)
Cadomedd (battle-shirker)
Fendigaid (blessed)
Molwynog (bald and gray)
Farf-Fehinog (greasy beard)
Frych (freckled)
Mawr (the great)
Foel (bald)
Dda (good)
Hen (the old)

LOTHARINGIA
==========
Pepin/Pippin
Bernard
Lothar
Louis
Charles
Berengar
Guy
Lambert
Rudolf
Hugh
Otto
Arduin
- Possible "surnames" and other to fill that place:
of Friuli
of Spoleto
of Provence
of Burgundy
of Arles
of Ivrea
- Possible "cognomina":
the Bald
the Fat

DENMARK
=======
- Based on list of legendary Danish kings 600-800 AD:
Hrothgar
Helgi
Frodi
Ongendus
Siger
- Based on list of legendary and certain Danish kings 800 AD-1100 AD:
Sigfrid
Gudfred
Eyetein
Halfdan/Halvdan
Hemming
Anulo
Sigurd
Reginfrid 812-814?
Erik
Harald
Uffe
Harde-Knud/Gudfred/Gudrød (Guthfrith/Godred)
Helgi
Olof
Gurd
Knud/Chnuba (Canute)
Sigtryg (Sigerich)
---
Gorm
Harald (Harold)
Sweyn
Magnus
Oluf
Olaf
Niels
- Possible "cognomina" based on vices and virtues:
den Gamle (the old)
Blåtand (Bluetooth)
Tveskæg/Tveskaegg (Forkbeard)
den Store (the great)
Hardeknud (the Hardy)
den Gode (the good)
den Hellige (the saint)
Hunger (the hungry)
Ejegod (ever good)

NORWAY
=======
- Based on Norwegian kings 870 to 1100:
Harald
Eirik
Håkon/Haakon
Harald
Olav
Svein
Knut
Magnus
Øystein/Oeystein
Sigurd
Inge
Sverre
Guttorm
Erling
Kyrre
Harald
(not to be used: Filippus)
- Surnames:
Tryggvason
Haraldsson
Kyrresson
Haraldsson
Magnusson
Munn
Herdebrei
Erlingsson
Sigurdsson
Sverreson
Bårdsson
Simonsson
Håkonsson
- "Cognomina":
Hårfagre (fairhair)
Blodøks (bloodaxe)
den Gode (the Good)
Gråfell (grey cloak)
Jorsalfar (Jerusalem-farer)
Jarl
Tjugeskjegg (forkbeard, [literally "20 beards"?])
den Hellige (the Saint)
den Mektige (the Mighty)
Hardråde (Hard ruler)
Berføtt (Barefoot)
Magnus Blinde (the blind)
Gille (likes to have parties, [literally "party"])
Krokrygg (hunchback)
Steinvegg (stone wall)
Lagabøte (lawful)

SWEDEN
======
- Based on Swedish legendary kings during House of Ynglings/Scylfings up to middle 7th century:
Adils/Adil/Eadgils
Egil/Ongentheow
Ohthere/Ottar
Ale/Onela
Sölve/Soelve
Ingvar
Anund/Aun
Ingjald
- Based on Swedish legendary kings during House of Skjöldung/Scylding and Ragnar Lodbrok up to middle middle 1000 AD:
Ivar
Harald
Ragnar
Björn
Sigurd
Östen
Beli
Anund
Erik
Eric
Styrbjörn
Olof
Ring
Emund
- Surnames
Uppsale (of Uppsala)
Björnsson
på Håga (at Hauge)
Refilsson
Anundsson
Emundsson
Ringsson
Eriksson
- Based on some götar kings:
Ingold
Kol
Sverker
Helgi
Hjörmund
Hjörvard
Högne
- Based on house of Stenkil and house of Uppsala:
Erik/Eric
Olof
Anund
Jacob
Knut/Canute
Stenkil
Halsten
Haakon
Inge/Ingold
Blot-Sven/Blot-Sweyn
Filip/Philip
Magnus
- Surnames:
Ragnvaldsson
Stenkilsson
Nilsson
- Some mythological kings from Beowulf etc. (probabluy not useful):
Hrethel
Sigar
Siggeir
Ungvin
Swerting
Hreðel/Hrethel
Hæþcyn/Haethcyn
Hygelac
Heardred
Beowulf
- "Cognomina":
Hildetand (something about "tooth"...?)
Lodbrok ("hairy pants")
Vidfamne (wide bossom, probably more of the meaning broad shoulders than person who likes to hug people ~D )
den gamle (the old)
Starke (the strong)
Segersäll (the Victorious)
Skötkonung
Hedningen (the heathen)
Röde (the red)
Halsten (slippy rock?)
Ironside
Weatherhat

ASTURIA
=======
Pelayo
Favila/Favilac/Fafila
Alfonso
Fruela
Aurelio
Silo
Mauregato
Bermudo/Vermudo/Veremund
Alfonso
Ramiro
Ordoño/Ordono
---
Garcia
Sancho
Ferdinand
Fernando
Urraca
- Surnames:
of Leon
of Galicia
of Asturias
of Navarre
of Castile
Aznarez
Gonzalez
Fernandez
Garces
Sanchez
- "Cognomina":
the Usurper
Deacon
the Chaste
the Great
the Emperor

BYZANTINE EMPIRE
==============
- Based on Isaurian dynasty from 675 to 820 AD:
Artabasdus
Stauracius
Michael
- Surnames:
the Isaurian
the Khazar
the Athenian
the Armenian
Rhangabes
- "Cognomina":
Copronymus (the Dung-named)
the Blinded
the General
- Female names:
Irene
- Based on Amorian/Phrygian dynasty (beginning of 9th century):
Michael II
Theophilus
- Surnames:
the Amorian
- "Cognomina":
the Drunkard
- Based on Macedonian dynasty (from 811 AD):
Basil
Alexander
Constantine
Leo
Romanus
Nicephorus
John
Michael
- Surnames:
the Macedonian
Lecapenus
Phocas
Tzimisces
Argyrus
Monomachus
Stratioticus
- "Cognomina":
the Wise
Porphyrogenitus (the Purple-born)
Bulgaroktonus (the Bulgar-slayer)
the Paphlagonian
Calaphates (the Caulker - and what does that mean?)
- Female names:
Zoë/Zoe (Porphyrogenita is a female "cognomen" that Zoe and Theodora got)
Theodora
- Based on Ducaian-Comnenan dynasty:
Isaac
John
Alexius
Manuel
Andronicus
- Surnames:
Comnenus
Ducas
Diogenes
Botaniates
- "Cognomina":
- Female names:
Eudocia (also got the surname/"cognomen" "Macrembolitissa")
Maria (also called "of Alania")

KHAZAR
======
- Based on very old, probably not applicable Khazar khan names:
Khozarig
Karadach
- Based on khagans of Ashina dynasty from around 600 to late 9th century:
Ziebel (Tun Yabgu Khan of the West Gokturks)
Irbis
Khalga
Kaban
Busir (Ibuzir Glavan)
Barjik
---
Bihar
Baghatur
Khan-Tuvan/Dyggvi
Tarkhan (Tarkhan could be either a real name or just a military rank)
Zachariah
- Female names in late Ashina dynasty:
Tzitzak
Prisbit
- Khazar beks from late middle 7th century to 740 AD):
Yazir
Chorpan
Alp
Tar'mach
Hazer
---
Bulan
Obadiah
Hezekiah
Manasseh
Chanukkah
Isaac
Zebulun
Nisi
Aaron
Menahem
Benjamin
Joseph
- Surnames:
Bulash
Tarkhan
Sabriel
- Based on later Khazar rulers (from roughly 950 to 1100):
David
Georgius
- Surnames:
Tzul

ABBASSIDS
========
- Based on caliphs before 800 AD:
Abu'l Abbas As-Saffah
Al-Mansur
Al-Mahdi
Al-Hadi
- Based on caliphs from 800 AD:
Harun al-Rashid
Al-Amin
Al-Ma'mun
Al-Mu'tamid
Al-Mu'tazz
Al-Muhtadi
Al-Muktafi
Al-Muntasir
Al-Muqtadi
Al-Muqtadir
Al-Musta'in
Al-Mustakfi
Al-Mustarshid
Al-Mustazhir
Al-Mu'tasim
Al-Mutawakkil
Al-Muti
Al-Muttaqi
Al-Qa'im
Al-Qadir
Al-Qahir
Ar-Radi
At-Ta'i
Al-Wathiq
- Based on early Seldjuk turks and rulers of Kerman (1050 to 1100 AD):
Toğrül bin Mikail (Tughril Beg)
Alp Arslan bin Chaghri
Jalal ad-Dawlah Malik Shah
Nasir ad-Din Mahmud
Rukn ad-Din Barkiyaruq
---
Qawurd
Kerman Shah
Sultan Shah
Hussain Omar
Turan Shah
Iran Shah
- Based on rulers of Ethiopia/Abbyssinia, probably not possible to use:
Mara Takla Haymanot
Tatadim
Jan Seyum
Germa Seyum
Yemrehana Krestos
Kedus Harbe

AL ANDALUS
=========
- Based on Umayyad emirs and later Al Andalus rulers:
Abd-ar-Rahman
Hisham
Al-Hakam
Muhammad/Mohammed
al-Mundhir
Abdallah ibn Muhammad
Suleiman
- Based on Almoravid rulers 1050 to 1150 AD):
Yusuf
Ali
Tashfin
Ibrahim
Ishaq
- Surnames:
ibn Yusuf
ibn Tashfin
ibn Ali

BULGARS
=======
- Based on monarchs from 600 AD to 800 AD (Dulo, Ukil and Ugain clan):
Kubrat
Batbayan
Asparukh
Tervel
Kormesiy
Sevar
---
Kormisosh
Vinekh
Telets
Sabin
---
Umor
Toktu
Pagan
Telerig
Kardam
- Based on Bulgar monarchs from 800 AD to 1018 AD (Dulo clan and house of Comitopuli):
Krum
Omurtag
Dukum
Dizewg
Malamir
Presian
Boris
Michael
Vladimir
Simeon
Peter
Boris
Roman
Samuil
(Constantin)
---
Gavril
Ivan
- Surnames:
Radomir
Vladislav
Delyan
Bodin

[Jarlabanke]

The Rus equivalent of Ingvar is AFAIK Ivar

[Ranika]

Well, while I'm being helpful, a list of Irish/Scottish names (in the appropriate spellings; editted; you should add some Pict names for the Scots); remember, any last names that start in 'mac' are postceded by a first name =

Male
Aadhar
Aare
Aarron
Adamhnan
Aed
Aedh
Aedhon
Aedhemuir
Aedhin
Aengous
Ahearn
Aibhe
Aidan
Aidon
Ainbhcellach
Al
Alroy
Aodh
Aoidh
Aoidhan
Aoidher
Aoidhmere
Arlen
Argas
Argyle
Bairrfhionn
Ban
Bannon
Banroy
Barry
Beagan
Beattie
Becan
Blaine
Bran
Brandon
Brendan
Brendon
Brenn
Brennan
Brian
Briodh
Briodhan
Brion
Broc
Brock
Brodie
Broighan
Cadgain
Cadh
Cadhen
Cadhenian
Canice
Caoindealbhai
Carey
Carlin
Carrick
Carroll
Cary
Casey
Cassidy
Cathal
Cathmhor
Cavan
Cavin
Caoihmin
Ceann
Ceannataigh
Cian
Ciannan
Ciaran
Comhghall
Conan
Conn
Connor
Conlaodh
Conroy
Constaighnan (Constantine)
Conway
Cormac
Corman
Cronan
Cuillain
Cuinn
Cuinnar
Cuinnart
Curran
Daimon
Daly
Dann
Dannon
Dara
Darby
Declan
Decklan
Dempsy
Derby
Dermot
Derry
Desmond
Devlin
Diarmid
Diarmud
Dolan
Domangart
Domnall
Donaghue
Donahue
Donnchadh
Donovan
Dooley
Doran
Dow
Driscoll
Duana
Dumniall
Dumniell
Dwaine
Dwane
Dwayne
Ealadha
Eanna
Earnan
Eber
Edan
Egan
Egon
Enda
Eoghan
Eomhan
Erin
Fallon
Faolon
Fearchar
Feardorcha
Fechin
Fergal
Fergus
Fergus
Fiachra
Fiadh
Fiadhan
Fiagorh
Fiannor
Fial
Fialla
Fidelima
Finbar
Finian
Finnegan
Fionn
Fionnbharr
Flannan
Flynn
Flynnan
Flynndan
Gair
Gar
Garbhan
Garret
Gerrit
Gallagher
Galvin
Gannon
Gearoid
Gloghan
Gloidhan
Goban
Goighan
Gormghiolla
Grady
Guy
Iarflaith
Iarlugh
Iobhar
Iollan
Iomchadh
Irial
Jarlath
Kaye
Keane
Kenneth
Kentan
Kevan
Labhraidh
Laoi
Laoire
Lasair
Leannan
Loman
Lonan
Lorcan
Lorkin
Lughaidh
Maine
Malachai
Maolon
Maon
Marcan
Meallan
Mel
Miach
Mochta
Morann
Muireadach
Murtagh
Murrchu
Naithi
Neasan
Niall
Niel
Nuadha
Odhran
Oengus
Ogan
Oisin
Oilleog
Olcan
Onchu
Oran
Orriagh
Orin
Orthanach
Osgar
Padraigh
Pandarhan
Proidhan
Raighnaigha
Raniga
Ranika
Rioghan
Riordan
Ronan
Ross
Ruari
Samhradhan
Saran
Scoithin
Scolai
Seab
Seachlann
Seadhna
Seanan
Seighin
Sentata
Sioda
Siollan
Sleibhin
Somhairle
Suibhne
Tadgh
Tanai
Tanaidh
Taoi
Tighearnach
Tiobraide
Tireachan
Tola
Troidh
Troidhan
Turlough
Turlac
Uiathne
Uallgarg

Surnames (you can also use 'mac' anything from the names above, like 'mac Turlough' or 'mac Aedh', but those weren't actual last names {technically Gaels didn't have last names, just titles like clan affiliations}, but the Scots sometimes used them like they were)
Aern
Badhan
Boroime
Broibhan
Cadae
Camairahn
Ceann
Damnall
Domnall
Earges
Eodhain
Fachorchu
Faollan
Fergal
Fergallan
Fergoidh
Fergus
Luchlae
Lughosan
Kandae
Kanlae
Kindorchu
Mabhon
Madbabh
Madden
Mar
Margolhan
Oichlan
Oiglann
Raighnaigha
Raoifergallan
Raoithirth
Rohirea
Saguchan
Saoi
Saoibhin
Sinoach
Uchelain
Ughar

These would only work the Scots;
Andu
Arges
Aroi
Bao Duras
Basbhadroi
Broi
Broihiere
Caidhbornan
Caidhfielth
Cairntielth
Carthbagdan
Coidhanae
Cuimhaill
Cuimilthae
Dal Conna
Dal Cruiddha
Dal Riada
Dal Sci
Derrontae
Dorgoth
Dragonach
Kennad
Kintaraeta
Lotorae
Oiglanne
Onassie
Raoi
Raoibhin
Saoifirthanal
Saoith
Sardeniath
Sargeras
Teegan
Troie
Tuthgal

These would only work for the Irish;
Dal Aranna
Dal Cais
Dal Coinn
Dal Danna
Ui Aan
Ui Aedhor
Ui Aran
Ui Babh
Ui Badh
Ui Bidhan
Ui Boidh
Ui Boll
Ui Cairn
Ui Cam
Ui Conna
Ui Cuinnaghta
Ui Dade
Ui Dialle
Ui Diarmat
Ui Diodhan
Ui Domnall
Ui Donn
Ui Edehn
Ui Egon
Ui Erahn
Ui Errain
Ui Iberon
Ui Ivernan
Ui Kanlae
Ui Kearne
Ui Kuinnear
Ui Laidi
Ui Laigini
Ui Mandea
Ui Mar
Ui Marniall
Ui Midha
Ui Mumai
Ui Niall
Ui Niell
Ui Rilleigh
Ui Riordan
Ui Slighan
Ui Sloighan

Female Names
Ailbhe
Aine
Ainnir
Ana
Aodhamair
Aodnait
Aoibheann
Aoibhegreine
Aoife
Bebhinn
Bearach
Blathin
Blaithnaid
Blinne
Brighid
Bronach
Caoilfhionn
Caoimhe
Cathan
Ceallach
Ceara
Ciar
Cliodhna
Dairine
Dairinn
Damhnait
Dearbhail
Deirdre
Dunfhlaith
Eadan
Easnadh
Eibhear
Eile
Eirne
Eibhleann
Echna
Eithne
Emer
Etain
Fachta
Fainche
Fiachara
Fianait
Fionnait
Fionuir
Fionnghuala
Geileis
Gobnait
Gormlaith
Grainne
Ide
Ionait
Laoise
Laoghaire
Lasairfhiona
Li Ban
Liadan
Liamhain
Liffe
Liobhan
Luiseach
Marga
Meadbh
Mealla
Miach
Moinnine
Moirne
Moncha
Mor
Muadhnait
Muireann
Muirin
Muirgheal
Muirne
Naoise
Naomh
Narbflaith
Neacht
Neamhain
Neasa
Niamh
Oona
Oonagh
Orlaith
Ornait
Osnait
Rathnait
Riona
Roinseach
Roisin
Ronnad
Ros
Ruadhnait
Sadhbh
Saorla
Saraid
Sarnait
Scoithniamh
Scoth
Scothnait
Seanait
Searc
Siomha
Sorcha
Suanach
Taillte
Teafa
Teffia
Tifa
Tethba
Treasa
Tuamnait
Tuathla
Tuilelaith
Uaine
Uainion
Una

[Rodion Romanovich]

Well, while I'm being helpful, a list of Irish/Scottish names (in the appropriate spellings)

Oh, thanks a lot. This is better than the list I was putting together. However it's a little long, so I'll use this list and put priority on keeping the names that are in both lists and seem to have occured most frequently, then choose the names I like most in your list for addition afterwards.

[Rodion Romanovich]

The Rus equivalent of Ingvar is AFAIK Ivar

I don't know, because Ivar too is used by the same Scandinavian vikings who used Ingvar as a name.

[Agraes]

For the Welsh :
Hael = The generous

Arthwys, Morfran, Urbgen, and many more... if you want more name ideas : http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/bios/index.html

[Jarlabanke]

Might be Igor=Ingvar otherwise Oleg=Helge Rurik=Rörek Vladimir=Valdemar.
Oh and Gråfell is usually Greycloak, Lodbrok means pretty much "hairy pants". According legend his sturdy pants saved him from snakebite at some point.
Ejegod means evergood.
Hårdråde= "Hard ruler".
Some of the Beowulf have been confirmed as historical persons Hygalec, for example.

[Rodion Romanovich]

@Jarlabanke: Yes, that seems correct. Also thanks for the translations! The reason why Beowulf names might not be applicable is because the story is so old. The names should be useable between 843 AD and 1099 AD.

@ALL: Thanks, I'll have a closer look at all this soon and update all lists.

[GoreBag]

Well, I was going to thrown in some names, but Ranika, once again, outdid me. I can only suggest Mhaolain as a Scottish (not Irish) surname off the top of my head.

[Ranika]

Here are some 'Scottish' only names (taken from the rolls of the noble houses of the Picts); hardly complete, but should give some variation against the Gaelic names:

Male
Bort
Branta
Brude
Caveral
Draggal
Drest
Drust
Drustan
Fabian
Logde
Morthamaer
Norden
Orban
Orbis

Surnames
Brude
Caitnathar
Croibhan
Fibbian
Gwalland
Mortam
Ollimar

[skeletor]

Norwegians:

Sverre = my name ~:cheers: Sweeet

- Surnames:
Kyrre, Harald - Add "son" to these two, as "son off" these are firstnames (you have Harald in the firstname list, so we could get a "Mr Harald Harald ~:) "

Filippus - This is an imported latin name, and the king rouled in the start of the 1200 . It wold not be apropriate for a peagan Norwegian king.

Jorsalfar - Means "Jearusalem fearer", or "crusader" and should be added to "Cognomina".

-Skel-

[Rodion Romanovich]

New suggestion for Scots:

SCOTS
=====
- MALE FIRST NAMES:
Aed
Ainbhcellach
Alpin/Elpin
Argyle
Blaine
Briodh/Brude/Bridei *** NOTE! Which spelling is most correct or if both are correct, which of the names was more common? Briodhan also possible.
Cadgain
Cinaed/Ciniod/Connad/Kineth (Kenneth)
Comhghall
Conall/Canaul
Conan
Connor
Constaighnan (Constantine)
Domangart
Domnall
Donovan
Drust/Drest (include one or both), "Drustan" also possible
Dwayne
Eochaid
Eoghan
Ferchar
Fergal
Fergus
Gabhran *** NOTE! is it Garbhan or Gabhran?
Gallagher
Goighan
Guy
Iomchadh
Lonan
Maelduin
Muireadach
Murtagh
Nechtan/Nechton
Niall/Niel
Oengus/Onuist
Ranika/Raniga/Raighnaigha (must be included as thanks ~D for all help)
Riordan
Ronan
Seanan
Seighin
Talorcen/Talorgen
Tanaidh
Tighearnach
Turlough/Turlac

- SURNAMES:
Caidhbornan
Caidhfielth
Dal Conna
Dal Cruiddha
Dal Riada
Dal Sci
Derrontae
Dorgoth
Dragonach
Kintaraeta
Lotorae
mac Alpin
mac Argyle
mac Bridei
mac Connall
mac Derile/Derelei
mac Drustan
mac Eochaid
mac Fergus
mac Nechtan
mac Niel
mac Lonan
mac Oengus
mac Talorcan
mac Uuredech

- FEMALE NAMES:
Ailbhe
Aoife
Ana
Blaithnaid
Brighid
Cathan
Ceara
Cliodhna
Dunfhlaith
Echna
Emer
Fainche
Fiachara
Laoghaire
Laoise
Lasairfhiona
Muireann
Muirin
Oona
Riona
Roisin
Saorla
Sarnait
Teffia
Tuathla
Tuilelaith
Uaine
Una


New suggestion for Irish:

IRISH
=====
- MALE FIRST NAMES:
Aed
Ainbhcellach
Alpin/Elpin
Argyle
Cadgain
Cinaed/Ciniod/Connad/Kineth (Kenneth)
Comhghall
Conall/Canaul
Conan
Connor
Conchobar
Domnall
Donn
Donovan
Dwayne
Eochaid
Eoghan
Feradach
Fergal
Fergus
Gallagher
Goighan
Guy
Iomchadh
Lonan
Maelduin
Muireadach
Murtagh
Nechtan/Nechton
Niall/Niel
Ranika/Raniga/Raighnaigha (must be included as thanks ~D for all help)
Riordan
Ronan
Ross
Ruairc
Seanan
Seighin
Tadg
Tanaidh
Tighearnach

- SURNAMES:
Dal Aranna
Dal Cais
Dal Coinn
Dal Danna
mac Aed
mac Conchobar
mac Ross
mac Tigernan
Ui Aan
Ui Aedhor
Ui Aran
Ui Cairn
Ui Conna
Ui Cuinnaghta
Ui Diarmat
Ui Diodhan
Ui Domnall
Ui Errain
Ui Ivernan
Ui Mumai
Ui Niall
Ui Niell
Ui Rilleigh
Ui Riordan
Ui Ruairc
Ui Sloighan

- FEMALE NAMES:
Ailbhe
Aoife
Ana
Blaithnaid
Brighid
Cathan
Ceara
Cliodhna
Dunfhlaith
Echna
Emer
Fainche
Fiachara
Laoghaire
Laoise
Lasairfhiona
Muireann
Muirin
Oona
Riona
Roisin
Saorla
Sarnait
Teffia
Tuathla
Tuilelaith
Uaine
Una

Now only Saxons, HRE and Magyars are left. I'll post lists for them too soon.

[Ranika]

You should definitely include more B names on the Irish list; Brian, Broidhan (different from Briodhan), and Brennan at least. I also recommend keeping for the Irish and Scots; Troidhan (important general of Brian Boroime's), the surname of 'Boroime' (name of the emperor of Ireland; actually a title meaning 'cattle counter', since he was king of Ireland and so wealthy), and the surname Ui Kanlae/Kanlae (the progenators of both the Irish and Scottish 'Mac/McKinley' clans, it was allies under Broc Ui Kanlae that went to Scotland to help the Scots fight the viking invaders).

Garbhan and Gabhran are alternate versions of the same name; both are versions of Garret (which was common in Ireland, but the Scots seemed to prefer Garbhan, which is probably from a Pict version of the name). Brude is the most common Pict version of Broidh or Boidhe (Boyd). Drust is more common than Drest, both also appear with 'an' as an ending though, so probably Drustan is most appropriate.

[oj121]

Um seeing as youlooked at Welsh rulers,you managed to miss the last independant Welsh Prince. He was Llywellyns brother called Dafydd.

[Rodion Romanovich]

@Ranika and oj121: I've updated the first post with your suggestions now. Thanks!

[Ranika]

Some Gaelic names you can use associated with traits, with brief descriptions of what they mean;

Boruma/Boróime - 'Cattle-Counter'; probably for a trait that gives high acumen or command (representing great wealth through business acumen or conquest)
na Curadh/na Seaimpín - 'the Champion'; for something that provides additional health to the general (this represents personal combat skill, not command ability)
na Boicht - 'the Poor'; for a trait with poor acumen perhaps, but also used to describe the particularly pious who donated much wealth, even if they weren't poor
Glúindibh - 'Black-knee'; has to do with constant prayer
nOrlaigh - 'the Hammering One/the Hammer'; given to brutal commanders
nAghaidhathaill - 'the Bold'; given to individually brave or bold commanders
na Goilldiach - 'the Lion'; given to great commanders
nGiall Óg - 'Master of the Hostages'; given to one who has taken many captors and slaves (not 'of the Nine Hostages', only Niall was known as that)
Callaig Óg - 'Master Speaker'; a particularly inspiring speaker; perhaps for a trait that increases troop morale, or a diplomat trait

[Ranika]

A cross post from the faction thread; I was being absent minded when I wrote up the 'surnames' for the Irish; none of them should be 'Ui'; this is the plural 'of'; that is 'Ui Connaill' refers to the entirety of the clan 'of Connell'. It should be the singular 'Ua Connaill', a single clansman of the Connell. However, for variety, the Irish may also use 'Uo' for a few of these names; Uo is from the period's dialect in Connacht. Also, you can use ó (not O', that's anglicized) instead of 'Ui', this was a Leinster/Munster form of 'Ua', and a singular 'Of'. Dal is still as valid in this period; it's another form of 'Ua', but was most popular in Ulster/Dal Riadda/Alba.

[Meneldil]

Frankish names (Carolingian dynasty, plus some names from the Mérovingian and Capetian dynasties, aswell as names of well known characters). Most would also fit with the Norman faction.

Names :

Angilbert
Anséis
Arnulf
Astolpho
Baudouin
Bégon
Bérengier
Bernard
Carloman
Charles
Clotaire
Clovis
Dagobert
Desiderius
Eberhard
Ecfird
Einhard
Engelier
Enguerrand
Florismart
Francis
Fredelon
Fulk
Ganelon
Geoffroi
Gerbert
Gérier
Gérin
Girard
Grimoald
Guillaume
Guy
Henri
Hugues
Ingelger
Ivon
Ivoire
Jean
Lanfrank
Leuthard
Louis
Lothair
Lothar
Maugris
Nithard
Odo
Ogier
Olivier
Otton
Pepin
Pierre
Ranulf
Raymond
Richard
Rinaldo
Robert
Robold
Roland
Rolon
Rudolph
Samson
Sigebert
Théobald
Theuderic
Thibault
Torsin
Warin
Warnegald

Women :

Adelaide
Alad
Alpais
Arégonde
Aupais
Berthe
Bertha
Bertrada
Berthrada
Crotilde
Désiderata
Dhuoda
Emma
Ermengarde
Ermentrude
Fastrada
Frénégonde
Gisela
Gisèle
Hilda
Hildegarde
Hilitrud
Irmengard
Judith
Luitgard
Nantechilde
Ringarde
Rotrude
Theodrada
Waldrade

Surnames :

There could be a whole lot. Surnames like 'the bald', 'the great', 'the fearless', etc. should be given through traits, if that's possible.

For common surnames, we'll have to use place names :

Western Franks surnames :

of Aquitania
of Neustria
of Francia
of Provincia
of Tolosa
of Vasconia
of Septimania
of Burgundia
of Britannia
of Flandria
of Iberia
of Albiga
of Lutetia
of Rotomagus
of Burdigala
of Narbona
of Aureliani
of Pictavium
of Arvernum
of Cadurcia
of Augustoritum
of Massilia

Central Franks :

of Provincia
of Burgundia
of Moselle
of Ripuaria
of Frisia
of Flandria
of Austrasia
of Laugobardia
of Tuscia
of Liguria
of Spoletum
of Beneventum
of Friulia
of Istria
of Secusia
of Iporedia
of Massilia
of Narbona
of Arelate
of Valentia
of Vienna
of Lugdunum
of Geneva
of Vesontio
of Mettia
of Aquisgrunum
of Strasburg
of Genoa
of Nicia
of Pisa
of Mediolanum

Eastern Franks :

of Alamannia
of Austrasia
of Saxonia
of Bavaria
of Bohemia
of Carinthia
of Moravia
of Thuringia
of Franconia
of Transalbingia
of Frisia
of Ripuraria
of Brema
of Hamaburg
of Strasburg
of Constantia
of Raethia
of Curia
of Praga
of Austria
of Ingolstadt
of Olmutz
of Saxonburg

[Rodion Romanovich]

Cool!

I've made some progress on the subject of names. After looking through every single txt file, I've found that the historical battles files also use names, so they have to be removed from there before they can be removed from the names files. Path is:
Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\battle\custom\Battle_of_Asculum
for instance. File descr_battle.txt is the one of interest.

All descr_strat.txt files, one per campaign, also contain links to names.
Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\descr_strat.txt

Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\campaign\vikings\descr_strat.txt

Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\campaign\sons_of_mars\descr_strat.txt

The names linked to from all these files most likely have to lead to a name existing in the names files.

Some other files that may be of interest for the subject, as they contain names from the names file:
1. Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\campaign\sons_of_mars\editor_log.txt
not likely, as it's a .log file; it's probably not used for reading by the engine, only for writing, if at all
2. Prologue_Campaign_Script.txt
Haven't checked it yet. May contain names.

Adding a name shouldn't be a problem - I think. Removing a name is probably more difficult, as it mustn't exist in any of the files mentioned above to be possible to remove.

A solution could be to
1. remove as many names as possible from these files that link to names, then make a list of the few remaining of the original names that had to be kept.
2. add as many as possible of the new names
3. change dependencies in the files mentioned above to link to any of the new names
4. remove the last old names

That's what I'll try to do. Might take some time...

[GoreBag]

Meneldil, should not the Frankish surnames use another word for "of" rather than just..."of"? I don't know much about Frankish in this period (or even if it's still considered Frankish at the time), but we should use a different word, I think.

[skeletor]

Thats great Legio..

But using "show err" usually points the way to the file were there is an error, so with some try/fail, you should be able to find all files related to the names rather fast don't you think?

-Skel-

[Meneldil]

Actually, the game crash without error message when there's a problem with names. Adding names is a real pain, as far as I can say.

[Meneldil]

Meneldil, should not the Frankish surnames use another word for "of" rather than just..."of"? I don't know much about Frankish in this period (or even if it's still considered Frankish at the time), but we should use a different word, I think.


Yeah, but I don't know a latin equivalent for 'of'

[GoreBag]

A great deal of latin prepositions are suffixes. The difference between "Vae Victus" and "Vae Victis", for example ("Woe vanquised" vs. "Woe to the vanquised"). Pathetically, I'm having trouble finding the right suffix, and I have no texts available to help me.

[Forgus]

I believe there is no such thing;
Like in Scipio Africanus, the frefix is incorporated into the place name. See also Germanicus, Hispanicus etc. But I speak no Latin myself...

[Meneldil]

Yeah, well, I guess I'll have to find my old latin text and studies ;-)

[Ranika]

It is correct that there is no 'of' in Latin. My Latin is far too poor to do anything but confirm that though.

[Csatadi]

Magyar names

MEN
Vajk
Tarhos
Tormás
Üllő
Jutas
Zolta
Tevel
Szerénd
Béla
Taksony
Levedi
Koppány
Álmos
Árpád
Tas
Fajsz
Vászoly
Ézelő
Kurszán
Kond
Ond
Huba
Töhötöm
Előd
Csepel
Ajtony
Lél
Bulcsú
Sur
Botond
Zotmund
Szabolcs
Kusid
Küzsdég
Bánk
Levente
Özséb
Torda
Kupian
Szoárd
Kadocsa
Bors
Ketel
Tarcal
Ügyek
Acsád
Bojta
Kartal
Csanád
Solt
Ócsád
Ete
Vata
Szolnok
Ákos
Berény
Bojta
Buda
Gyécse
Elmér
Farkas
Hetény
Katapán
Karád
Makó
Öden
Pozson
Szecsőd


WOMEN
Szecsőke
Sarolt
Enéh
Emese
Piroska
Ajnácska
Ajándék
Áldáska
Arany
Arika
Réka
Bolda
Delin
Déva
Emőke
Evetke
Galamb
Fürtike
Hanga
Mikolt
Örsi
Barót
Rezeda
Rasdi
Bíbor
Bogárd
Hajna
Ibolya
Viola
Havadi
Hete
Jóleán
Lente
Lelle
Öte
Somocska
Rózsa

Some of them, especially the women names are probably inaccurate but there are only a few source materials and the Latin alphabet is unable writing Magyar word exactly.

In this era there weren't surnames.

[Forgus]

I wrote this in a different topic but I believe it belongs in here....



Some names for you. Full names should be like (for males) X fia Y, like Aba fia Adony: Adony son Aba. I hope it will do.


Male pagan era

Aba
Adony
Ajtony
Álmos
Apa
Apos
Árpád
Bekény
Bene
Bese
Beza
Bodor
Bókony
Bors
Botond
Búcsú
Buda
Csató
Csegő
Cseke
Csepe
Dobor
Előd
Farkas
Géza
Huba
Izmény
Izsép
Kászony
Keve
Kinizs
Kond
Koppány
Kozma
Kurszán
Lél
Levedi
Marót
Obos
Ond
Pozsony
Réde
Sebe
Sebő
Solt
Súr
Szórád
Taksony
Tarján
Tas
Tormás
Töhötöm
Ügyek
Vata
Vazul
Zádor
Levente
Apor
Csobajd
Csaba
Fajsz
Egyek
Szend
Szemere
Keve
Vasad
Bátor
Karcag


Male christian era

István
Imre
Péter
György
András
Endre
Sámuel
Gyula
Levente
Kálmán
Csaba
János
Dénes
László
Simon
Aba
Géza
Béla

Female pagan era

Sarolt
Emese
Karold
Piroska
Gilvád
Cseperke
Csikó
Nyesta
Asszoncs
Eneh
Aranka
Virág
Liliom
Gyöngy
Sáfély
Balzsam
Bíbor
Szépa
Kandi
Piroh
Szinta
Csepke

Female christian era

Gizella
Mária
Ilona
Judit
Ágota
Hedvig
Margit
Krisztina
Anna
Gertrúd
Erzsébet
Katalin
Blanka
Borbála

[Rodion Romanovich]

Yes, thanks! It's always nice to have the info for reference in the place where it belongs

[Csatadi]

The Magyar Christian names are not important because most of the players will not play in that late period. And the Christian names were used seldom in the 11. century yet.

Forgus: this 'fia' (son of) thing is correct but I am afraid the AI are not able to follow the family tree and will be strange if e.g. Taksony's son get the Farkas fia Zolta (Zolta son of Farkas) name. ~;)

[Meneldil]

Yeah, that's precisly why I might not use surnames for the Magyar (and maybe for some other faction like the welsh)

[GoreBag]

Well, I got RTR 6.0 the other day, and it seems that the faction leader for the Romans "Quintus" doesn't have a surname. Of course, he may have one "behind the scenes", but no surname appears. From each of his sons, a new line of surnames is created - the third generation each have the same surname as their father. I think this was accomplished by making it impossible for Quintus to have children.

In any case, there must be a discrepency between the surname recognized by the program and the surname that appears in-game. Otherwise, nicknames like "The Wrathful" wouldn't be possible. With this in mind, I think it's possible to write a script so that "son of (father's name)" surnames would work.

[Forgus]

This would be nice...

[MagnosAkos]

Kool !
I saw my name in the List!
I swear I thought Akos derives from the greak word Achos which mean pain.
Looks like im wrong.

"Latiatuk feleim mik vogmuk: poru e humu"

[MagnosAkos]

Im sry i couldnt edit message. I donnu how so i had to double post

Valamelyikotok tudna nekem adni egy weboldalt amin korai Magyarokrol van informacio!
Koszi

[ScionTheWorm]

Valamelyikotok tudna nekem adni egy weboldalt amin korai Magyarokrol van informacio!
Koszi
I'm going to take a guess here... :bucktooth:

"I'm talking magyar and I have a lot of secret information about them"

[Csatadi]

Valamelyikotok tudna nekem adni egy weboldalt amin korai Magyarokrol van informacio!
Koszi
Yes, I have a lot of infos about the early Magyars.
And I'm not such mysterious like Scion. Try this: http://www.google.co.hu/
There are a lot of useful writings on this page. ~D ~D ~D

[Nacheras]

Hi, everybody. New in this forum. Sorry for my english. I´m spanish and want to help with some of the history dudes about Spain in your fantastic mod.

Ok, let´s begin with the names. This is the list you have posted.

ASTURIA
=======
Pelayo/Pelagius
Favila/Favilac/Fafila
Alfonso
Fruela
Aurelio
Silo
Mauregato
Bermudo/Vermudo/Veremund
Alfonso
Ramiro
Ordoño/Ordono
---
Garcia
Sancho
Ferdinand
Fernando
Urraca
- Surnames:
of Leon
of Galicia
of Asturias
of Navarre
of Castile
Aznarez
Gonzalez
Fernandez
Garces
Sanchez
- "Cognomina":
the Usurper
Deacon
the Chaste
the Great
the Emperor

All are names of kings and queens of Asturias. It´s quite accurate.
Note that "Ferdinand" and "Fernando" are the same name, so you can eliminate one of them (if you have chosed the spanish form for the names eliminate "Ferdinand"). The correct name for Favila could be this one or Fafila. I have never heard about "favilac" (german form, culd be?). Same for Bermudo, that could be scribed as B o V form. Veremund is the germanic form.

New names for your mod

Males:

Pedro/Petrus (Father of king Alfonso I)
Vimara/Vimarano (brother of king Fruela)
Nepociano/Nepotianus (failed usurper to king Ramiro)
Hermenegildo/Hermenegild (son of king Mauregato/Mauregatus)
Rodrigo (yes, as El Cid)
Bernardo (named "del Carpio" if it can be used as a surname)
Diego
Nuño
Odoario
Berengario
Sancho

Female:

Caudiosa (wife of mitical Pelayo)
Froiliuba
Ermesinda/Bermesinda
Adosinda
Munia
Creusa
Favinia
Ozenda
Nunilona
Jimena/Ximena
Paterna
Urraca
Cristina
Thisiena
Aldonza
Leodegundia
Hildegarda

surnames:

you can create almost any name putting an "ez" as last syllable of a male nae. i.e Rodriguez, Nuñez, Fernandez, Fruelez, Sanchez, as it means (as in other languages) "son of".

And
of Alava
of Vizcaya
of Guipuzcoa
of Bureba
of Cangas
of Pravia
of Oviedo
of Cantabria

Late i´ll writen again with more names and facts.

Keep up the good work. AOVF is a fantastic mod

[Rodion Romanovich]

Thanks for the info!

[Csatadi]

I made a new list of Magyar names in which I used the work of Forgus and mine and new research. In this I used only names which have some written source. I could write more but I find it enough in number for you.
I tryed to present the OLD form of the names, e.g. Ákus instead of Ákos. Especially the women's names are from deduction.
If you are interested in Magyars in the middle-ages visit this page: http://www.birbin.tar.hu, there are "English articles", too. And e.g. a pronunciation guide to the Magyar language.

Mogyers
--------

MEN
Acsád
Adony
Ajtony
Ákus
Álmus
Apor
Bánk
Bátur
Becse
Béla
Berény
Bogát
Bojta
Bókony
Bors
Bot
Botond
Bökény
Buda
Bulcsu
Csanád
Csege
Cseke
Csepel
Elmér
Előd
Ézelek
Falicsi
Farkas
Gyeicsa
Hollus
Huba
Jutocsa
Kadocsa
Kál
Karád
Kartal
Katapán
Keled
Kerecsen
Ketel
Keve
Kond
Kuppány
Kurszán
Küzsdég
Lél
Levedi
Livünti
Makó
Mikán
Mike
Miske
Móg
Nyárád
Obus
Ócsád
Ond
Öden
Özséb
Pozsony
Súr
Szecsőd
Szerénd
Szoárd
Szolnok
Taksony
Tarcal
Tarkacsu
Tas
Teveli
Tormacsu
Töhötöm
Turda
Vajk
Vál
Vata
Zolta
Zoltán
Zombor
Zsolt


WOMEN
Ajánduk
Ajnácska
Áldáska
Arany
Arencsa
Arika
Barót
Bíbur
Bogárd
Bolda
Buga
Csente
Cseperka
Csepke
Csikó
Csillag
Csuda
Delin
Déva
Emesu
Emőke
Enét
Fehéra
Gilvád
Gyöngy
Hajna
Havadi
Heta
Jóleán
Karold
Kecse
Köncse
Lelle
Lente
Mag
Manga
Mikolt
Nyesta
Örsi
Öte
Rásdi
Réka
Sáfély
Sarolt
Somocsa
Szecsőke
Szépa
Virág

[Magdala]

Quick question. There are NO áéíóú used in the Irish or Scotish names. Why? Also there is no 'k' or 'y' in the Irish alphabet. I speak fluent Irish and Im not too bad on Irish history. I'd be happy to help where I can if someone wants to get in contact with me.

[Ranika]

I'm aware there is no K, and no Y in proper Irish, however, I used some names that are Anglicized (mostly because I was copying a list of names from the late middle ages, when some Anglicized Irish names were used in the Pale, which accounts for some, but not all K names; other K names I selected from Ivernic {elaborated below}). The Y are mostly the same thing, but some names in Desmumu had Y in them because they were modified from Welsh (from when Dyfedd was under the control of the Desmumu, numerous Welsh immigrated, and some Welsh still did even in the late dark ages; trying to represent slightly Gaelicized Welsh names; if they can be particularly rare, it'd be nice, but they can be dropped altogether; it could probably be represented in the same way by just bribing Welsh characters to get a character with a Welsh name). Also, K DOES appear sometimes in Scotland in the dark ages, presumably because of Angles who inhabitted southern Scotland, and introduced the earliest forms of 'Kenneth', modified from Cennad and Cinaed, so some variants, like "Kennad" exist among some early Anglo-Saxon subjects, though it is true that that was a minority. Also, there are some very early names in Ireland with 'K', which are not from the Irish language (they come from Ivernic, likely, which is not a Q-Celtic language, but related to continental Celtic from Belgica; names from Ivernic usually were modified into Irish by changing the K to either /gh/, /c/, or dropping it altogether; the Irish language as we know it today is more descended from Galaecian-Iberian than continental Celtic languages; though, the Galaecians did speak a Celtic language {specifically a form of Q-Celtic, accounting for Gaelic branching out of Q-Celtic}). Ivernic was still spoken by a minority in Munster (where the Irish faction starts) until the tail end of the 800s AD, and Ivernic names still existed. Again, also a minority, and if they could be made very rare, I think it'd be a nice nod to an unusual, often overlooked state of affairs in Ireland (since it's more of a linguists' footnote than any major historical note; much like the existence of a Gaelic-speaking minority in parts of Dyfedd until into the middle ages, accounting for Gaelic influences in Welsh, first introduced when Dyfedd was brought under the control of an Irish-speaking aristocracy).

More on Ks, for the interetsed; K does not exist in any surviving Celtic language. However, K did exist in the language of Gauls and Belgae; in the Gauls, presumably taken from Greek words (examples like 'kua'; 'strength', or 'kutos'; 'powerful'). The Belgae spoke a dialect of Gallic (presumably, considering their close relations and dealings with them, and similarities of inscriptions from Belgica). The Belgae invaded Ireland before Iberians (who brought the Q-Celtic language to the region; as an aside, Q-Celtic bares a closer resemblance to proto-Celtic, and thus, probably the original Celtic language, than latter Gallic and the like). They settled mainly in the south originally, and were overwhelmed by Gallic and British tribes who settled as well. The more indepedent minded Belgae migrated into western Ireland, overwhelming the natives there with superior weaponry and tactics.

Then came Iberians. This is recounted in Irish myth as the invasions of Milesus (his name in Irish is literally broken down as 'Spanish Soldier'). They conquered the southwest, and overcame the island through war and cultural strength. This probably recounts, in its own folklore way, the submission of the Celtic tribes to the men from Iberia (themselves actually Celts; these were not 'Iberians', they were Galaecians, who were essentially Hallstatt Celts/demi-Celts with heavy Iberian overtones, evidenced in their clothing and such). This would mean the introduction of these tribes' language (Q-Celtic). However, the Belgae subjects maintained their own language, for quite some time. Ivernic is written down in the post-Christian period, and was the day-to-day language of several parts of western Munster, and occassionally a few kings. It was lost though, helped along by the matter that few real power-centers in Munster spoke Ivernic; additionally, few major players from Munster really spoke it as a first language (at best). Church records in Munster even note that some cheifs were actively trying to stamp out the language, because it was causing problems with keeping certain parts of the population loyal (an indepedent language has historically been impetus for much in rebellion; it gives the sense of two different groups, hence why non-standard languages have historically been pressured out of existence). This language did use the letter K (presumably first adopted from Greek, like it was in the language of the Gauls).

For those confused about how we know Gauls used K; they did write. It was rare, but they did write inscriptions and epithets. For the curious about ogham, it is not of Irish origin, the first versions of it appear in Iberia. Or, at least, it looks that way, considering nowhere else but Iberia and Ireland used the system (though Iberia's is different, and Ireland didn't actually use it in any pertinent amount until the 3rd century AD). Something irritating about Ivernic is that we know too little about it to use it very much in rebuilding other languages of Celtic origin that employ the letter K. We know it does from a few inscriptions and brief notations. Some things seem to have been the same at one time; such as 'mavi'. Mavi means 'son of'. However, when Gaelic first experienced its first gout of major foreign language influence; that being Latin, during Christian conversion, 'Mavi' became 'Mac' or 'Mc'. However, Ivernic writing maintained 'Mavi', but written in Latin letters instead of ogham (which is, itself, an imitation of Latin letters, but was just used for gravestones and such).

Mavi (or Maqi, in some cases), of course, exists in Primitive Irish, but out from that, is no longer used. Except in the case of Ivernic speaking regions. Primitive Irish lacks a lot of the distinctive parts of what one can easily recognize as Irish. Old Irish (from the 6th century on) takes on the characteristics we recognize (introduced the letter P, big chunks of consonants due to removing syllables that were not being stressed, completely changing some vowels and consonants, such as VI/QI to C). In the 5th century though, both were being used. Such as in the most common example, the king of Laigin. His name was Mac Caírthinn Uí Enechglaiss, but his grave says Maqi Cairatini avi Inequaglas.

This is presumably closer to Ivernic, which was, then, still being spoken. My long-winded babbling is coming to an end though; we're getting there. Just hold on. The Irish called the language Iarnnbélrae in the 9th century, recounting it in Sanas Cormaic. However, by that point, no Ivernic speakers still existed (or, at least, no populations spoke it; it is possible that the rare scholar might have taken an interest in the language). St. Bede also makes vague mention of it as a language. The names it produced did use Ks, in place of a few letters used by Irish-speaking Gaels. I was only trying to imitate a potential minority. But, I don't actually recall when the mod is set (and I initially wrote the additional names from Ivernic because I was thinking of names for a pre-Roman Britain/Ireland mod).

My assertion here does not imply a support of theories of certain loanwords being taken from Ivernic that are present in Irish. I believe most of these supposed loanwords are Brythonic, which is the general concensus, but not totally argued. However, any K influence is invariably drawn from this language. However, the last recorded Ivernic name was that of a chief in 780, which did contain a K (Kian, presumably the Ivernic 'Ceann'; the name means 'Fish'. For modern English speakers, may not sound like a great name, but that was an old style of naming, for naming one after traits, objects, and animals that represented admirable qualities; fish in Celtic societies did hold certain special significance, especially coastal societies). He was mentioned in passing as having been one of a few men who commited suicide in the light of being suspected of conspiring against the king of Munster.

However, I'm not trying to moot your point, at all, just explaining selections. In fact, if the mod is set after 850, I'd be adverse to using either, and even if it wasn't, with as short a name list as being employed, I'd opt in favor of more common names and spellings.

As for accents, I don't usually type of a standard keyboard (my own at home, which I don't have here, has accents already present on it; I am horrendous with a computer, if one can't tell), and not certain how to write them on one. ...Not as long-winded as the above.

[skeletor]

Ranika, did you know that language reserchers actually think that up until the 1400'ds irish, scot, and scabdinavian pople allmost spoke the same language, and could very well have a conversation.

-Skel-

[Ranika]

I'm an actual linguist (it's my job, not a hobby), and I have never heard that except from wags, hacks, and the occassional conspiracy theorist. We know a great deal about old Gaelic languages, and they don't look at all like Norse languages. Verbs are conjugated differently, pronunciations are wholely different, dipthongs are substantially more abrupt (less rounded) in Norse (and later in Scottish Gaelic, as it absorbed this trait from Norwegian invaders). Additionally, even during the period of viking invasion, their affect on the Gaelic languages (except Manx) isn't really that profound (based in part by how different they are, and the lack of total immersion of them into one another); it certainly had a clear, definite effect, but it was not nearly so transformative as it could've been.

The Manx were recorded as speaking both their own language (a Gaelic language, which, at the time, was not unlike Irish), and had a Norwegian aristocracy for a while that spoke a Norse language, after the vikings invaded Mann. They were plainly set apart by language. Manx absorbed the most Nordic influence of all Gaelic languages, and it STILL isn't that similar to Norse, except in the blatant sense (that is, loan words, which are often extremely similar). In all three languages' cases, however, Latin and English had more of an effect (all of them experienced long periods of immersion in English, and all of them adopted aspects of Latin when Christianized). Early and Old Irish are not some mystery; we know what they looked like and how they were spoken (the sheer amount of literature written in the languages is staggering; Irish monks copied innumerable texts, mainly in Irish and Greek at first, then started using more Latin in the middle ages).

There are far too many differences between Old Irish and Old Norse (specifically western Norse) to think that they were that closely related. That all said, there was a Hiberno-Norse trade cant (a series of simple phrases and words) that was used by merchants in the region. It was not a regular language, and was just used to give the Norse and Gaels a bit of ease in trading. Conversely, the same cant fell out of use in the late 1300s or early 1400s, but it could hardly be considered a language (Rohn de Vella briefly mentions it in a dictionary of Britain, and notes that it seems to have had less than 300 words).

The assertation that they spoke the same, or near the same language is ludicrous; have you ever read anything in old Irish and compared it with old Norse? Consider some other problems with this theory; in Ireland, Norse lords had to learn Irish to effectively administrate. The Gaelic population had a rather heavy aversion to speaking Norse a lot of the time (it was considered the language of pagans for quite a while), and aside from that, it was difficult to learn. On the other side of things, the Norse had trouble learning Irish. There are numerous references to the horrendous butcher of the language by non-native speakers (which shouldn't be that unusual; the Gaelic languages are very complicated to learn, often, for non-native speakers, unless they have a pre-existing relation with the language and a basic understanding of it). If their languages were so similar, why did they trouble learning eachothers, and why did they even have to learn them? There were occassional Scottish chiefs in Ireland and vice versa in the period, and niether of them had any reported trouble administrating due to their language; their languages were genuinely very similar.

That all said; some similarities do exist. But those are generally pretty old (like the name of 'Loki' is clearly related to 'Lugh'; Loki used to mean 'The Blazing One', and Lugos (from Gaul) was 'The Shining One'). Most of the similarities far predate the period, and aren't really that intense. During and after the period, there are clear loan words and some additions to the language, emergence of a few dialects, etc., but that's entirely different. In Ireland, Scotland, and Mann, though, there were Norse-speaking minorities for a few centuries, but they all disappeared during the high/late middle ages, absorbed into the Gaelic-speaking populations. The most basic refutation is that Gaelic languages are Celtic in origin, and Scandinavian languages are Germanic, and the two families of languages are extremely different.

[Forgus]

"Latiatuk feleim mik vogmuk: poru e humu"

actually: Latiatok feleim zumtuchel, mic wogmuc. Isa pur es homu wogmuk. ... Isa pur es
homu wogmuc, es cealtsatoc Uromuchoz harmul: kyrie eleison.

Just for the sake of preciosity

[Meneldil]

Csatadi, Nacheras, if you have some more names, just post them. The more is the better ~:)
If you have ideas for Asturian or Magyar specifics traits or ancillaries, we'll gladly use them aswell :)

[Csatadi]

Two important Magyar ancillaries are also on the forum, the Táltos and the Regös.
Maybe the Falconer would be good. In Magyar it is called 'Solymár' but English is better in this case I think.
The benefit can be some influence or line of sight instead of Pet Hunting Dog.
The barbarian ancillaries are good in general. The regös takes the role of the bard, the táltos is the priest. The pet hunting dog isn't such good the Falconer may get it's role.

[Nacheras]

Hi again.

I put on more names, with ist first word in spanish and the second in latin (if hispano-roman name) or gemanic (if gothic) if known. All are real and documented names.

male

Adolfo/Dolfo/Dolfus/ Astolfo (german)
Alfonso/ Adefonsus (latin)/ Athalfuns (goth)
Aloisio/ Aloitus (latin)/ Alois (france-german)
Ansuro
Arduga/Ardega/Arduca (it is gothic but I don´t know its german form)
Arias
Armonio/ Harmonius (latin)
Bellido/ Bellidus
Cervello/ Servilius (latin)
Cristóforo/ Christoforus
Christuevalo- Cristobal
Dulcido/ Dulcidus (latin)
Eita (gothic)
Félix/ Felix (very popular in Spain those days)
Flacencio/ Flacencius (latin)
Froila/Fruela
Gemeno/Gimeno/ Ximeno (it is a local pre-roman name)
Juan/ Iohannes (greek-latin)
Muño/ Monnio (latin)
Munito / Monnitus
Severo (Severus)
Tello/ Tellus
Teodulfo/ Teodulfus (latin)/ Teodulph (german)
Valero/ Valerius (latin)
Vicencio/ Vincentius (latin)
Zamma (unknowed origin)
Zonio (unknowed origin)


female

Argilo
Ermesinda
Icka (germanic, I think)

I´ve read, too, that surnames were very unusual before XI century, and the termination -az were more popular than -ez, that is laterly.

If you are interested in create Navarrese (around 860) or catalonian (around 890) as emerging factions, I can provide you of typical local names.

For traits and ancillaires, and more names (specially of females, that are hard to find) I´ll will wrote later. Now I´m at job, and my boss is looking at me nearly! ~;)

[Meneldil]

Nacheras, would these name fits for the mod (for the Spanish faction) ?
http://www.gaminggeeks.org/Resources/KateMonk/Europe-Medieval/Goths.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mariamnephilemon/names/medievalnames/visigoth.html
Here's a list of Basque names we'll be using, if you have more ideas, feel free to share (even for catalonian names)
¬++++++Basque Names
¬++++Men
{Antso} Antso
{Eneko} Eneko
{Fortun} Fortun
{Garcia} Garcia
{Gartzia} Gartzia
{Sancho} Sancho
¬++++Surnames
{Arista} Arista
{Darditia} Darditia
{Garces} Garces
{GartziaI} Gartzia
{Handia} Handia
{Iniguez} Iñiguez
{Penalengoa} Peñalengoa
{Santxez} Santxez
¬++++Women
{Aldoncia} Aldoncia
{Anderazo} Anderazo
{Belascuza} Belascuza
{Belasquita} Belasquita
{Cinara} Çinara
{Constanza} Constanza
{Domeca} Domeca
{Domicussa} Domicussa
{Elvira} Elvira
{Emazteona} Emazteona
{Iuxta} Iuxta
{Jurdana} Jurdana
{Justa} Justa
{Leguntia} Leguntia
{Maria} María
{Mencia} Mencia
{Oneca} Oneca
{Ortissa} Ortissa
{Sancia} Sancia
{Sancha} Sancha
{Toda} Toda
{Urraca} Urraca
{Yenega} Yenega
{Zianna} Zianna

[Nacheras]

Meneldil: both links you posted are related on gothic names. It´s quite problematic, due to the fact that the kingdom of Asturias does not exactly inherit the spanish gothic kingdom.
in my opinion is better to use only histroic names, because in Asturias kingdom were used only a few of gothic names, and also other roman or pre-roman names. If you are lacked of name you can use gothic names, but not sistematically, in my opinion.

Good account of basque names you fit.
I posted some more and more catalonian and aragonese names (sometimes you can use the same of asturian names).

Basque (kingdom of Navarra) male names

Ximeno/Gemeno
Enneko/ Iñaki
Gonzalo
Rodrigo/Ruy
Bela
Sigerici/ Geriz
Fortun/ Fortunio
Garcia
Sancho


Hispanic Mark (catalonian and aragonese) male names

Bellon
Borrell/ Borrelius
Sunifredo/Sunifred
Humfredo/Humfred
Oliva
Vifredo/ Wilfred (named as surname "el Velloso", the pilous)
Mirón/ Miro
Armengol
Sunyer/Suñer
Rodulfo/ Rodulf (german form)
Aznar
Galindo
Ansur
Guitart/ Witard
Elias
Arifredo/ Arifred
Cesario
Ferriol/ Ferriolus
Gilabert
Oleguer
Robert
Pere/Pedro / Petrus
Bertran/Beltrán/ Bertrand
Mascaró/ Mascarone
Berenguer
Raimon/Raymond
Arnau/ Arnaldo
Ponç or Pns or Ponce (it´s a latin name derived from Poncius)
Martin/ martino
Vicenc/ Vincentius
Magier (not Magyar ~;) )
Geral/ Gerallo
Ramiro/ radomir
Vida
Hug/ Hugo
Porcel
Bivas
Guillem/ german Wilhelm
Mir
Esteve (Stepehen)

Hispanic Mark female names

Emon
Cixilona
Richildis
Maria
Ermisenda
Ahalaez


Castilian-asturian-leonese male name

Veila
Ansur
Melendo or Menendo
Fortun/ Fortunio
Garcia
Sancho
Alvar
Johannes
Pedro/ Petrus
Julianus
Vida
Manrique
Raimundo/Raymond
Velasco
Antín or Antón
Pascual
Belaio (another form of Pelayo-Pelagius)
Mamés
Lope
Miguel (late, about 1100 AD)/ Michael

This from now.
Later I´ll try to post more names.

[Meneldil]

Thanks for the help :)

[Nacheras]

More names for you.

Asturian male names

Teodomir
Casio/ Casius
Lope
Adanino
Odoario
Gatón
Sarracino
Fortis
Lucas (Luke)
Gomez
Beato/ Beatus
Eterio/ Heterius

Asturian female names

Nuña/ Nunia


Hispanic Mark male names

Bera
Rampón
Alerán
Angelino
Sabarino
Viliesindo/ Wilesind

Hispanic Mark female names

Petronila


Let´s go with Al-Andalus names

Emires and Caliphes of Al-Andalus

Tarik (berber)
Muza ben Nusair
Abd-Al-Aziz ben Muza
Ayub ben Habib
Al-Horr
Al-Sama ben Malik
Abd-ar-Rahmán
Ambaza
Odra ben Abdala
Yahya ben Salema
Hodaifa ben Al-Ahguas
Otman ben Abunisa
Al-Haitam ben Obaid
Abd al-Malik ben Katan
Okba
Balec ben Baxir
Taalaba ben Salama
Abultajar
Toaba ben Salama
Yusuf
Hixem
Al-Hakem
Muhammad
Al-Mondir
Abd-Allah
Suleiman

Other andalusian names

Zeyad
Omar ben Abdallah Al-Muradí
Munuza (berber)
Habib
Maisara Al-Hakir (berber)
Baleg ben Biser
Katan
Umaiya
Halid ben Hamed as-Zanati (berber)
Mohawiya
Bader
Alkama
Teman
Ibrahim ben Sagara
Asim Al-Uryan
Abusaid
Abusuluad
Xaquia
Husein ben Yahya
Omar
Malik
Hasdail ben Saprut (jewish)
Abul Hattar
Darrag Al-Kastali (berber)
Ubaid Allah ben Kasim
Chammas
Isa
Garbib
Amrus
Obaidala
Abu Hafs
Umar
Idris
Ziryab (persian)
Nasr
Hasim
Sadun
Ibn Marwan
Omar ben Hafsun
Aisun
Hafs
Sauwar
Said
Hagag
Haldun
Gad
Umaiya
Bakr
Aben Mastana
Ahmed
Chafar
Saih Al-Aslami
Halaf
Aben Marwan
Galib
Nachda ("slav", or european slave)
Abu Alí
Mushafi
Aben Gannun
Al-Mugira
Ibn Abu Amir Muhammad, named Al-Mansur Billah (Almanzor in spanish), or "the victorious". General, politic and dictator of Al-Andalus between 978 and 1002 AD). Many times victor over christians, and conqueror of Barcelona, Coimbra, Leon, Zamora and Compostela. He preffered sack and/or exterminate those cities more than conquer.
Chaudar
Bologgin
Askalacha
Ziri ben Atiya
Wadih
Al-Mudaffar
Zawi
Hairan
Muchahid
Gawhar
Ibn Rumatris


Andalusian female names

Tarub
Subh
Asmah
Radia
Fatima
Lobna
Fadal
Calam
Adal

About traits: I think all the usual christian traits are valids for asturian generals. Could be posible, if you are going to adopt the BI "religious-type", add a new trait: adopcionist believs. Adopcionist was a teological controversy in Spain in VIII century, and separated Asturian Church from mossarab (goth cristian in andalus kingdom) church, bringing it near roman european church. Adoptionist believs in a asturian general must (as donatist or arian believs in a roman general in BI) decrease popularity and public order if that general is a governor.

I think important trait for a christian general (Asturian, Navarre, Catalonian) is despise or hate muslims. Of course the same about christians for an andalusi general. Don´t forget war in Spain had an central motivation about religion.

I don´t know if you are going to reintroduce offices, as in MTW and BI, but if you are interested, here are some of them:

Andalusian offices (or ancillaries):
Sultan, at 929 Caliph: king or faction leader
Haxib: Prime minister or Chancellor of Palace. head of Royal House, Chancillery and Public Treasure
Vizir: Each one of minister or state secretaries.
Amir or wali: governor of a province. Before Caliphate first emir were the effective gobernor of all Andalus.
Cadi: judge or major of a town. Cadi aljamaa: head of all judges of the caliphate.
Sahib Surta or Chorta: head of policy of Cordoba.
Sahib as Sikka: head of the coin factory

Some ancillaries: Mursif or tax collector (+ in tax collection and in administration), Akim or auxiliar judge (+ law and public order), Al-wazir or policy agent (+ in public order), Mutashib or inspector of weights and measures (+ in trade, farmer production, tax and population grow), Caid or general (+ in personal security and command), ulema or alim, a muslim saviour (+ in muslim conversion and happiness in muslim provinces, - ), faqui, teacher at university (+ in management and influence).

Real Ancillaries: Al-Gazal, a poet and ambassador; Aben Abd er Rabihi, enciclopedist and scholar; Aben Hani, poet; Azzobaidi, famous teacher of caliphas; Said of Bagdad, poet and epigramist; Habid, bard; Walada, princess and poet; Aben Zeidun, poet; Aben Jaldun, singer; Ziriab, musician; Abd el Malik ben Habib, Law expert; Aben Masarra, philosopher; Aben Hazam, philosopher (don´t forget that a philosopher improves management but decreases popularity of a general due to be suspect of heresy); Ahmed Aben Nasar, mathematician; Moslema ben Alcasim, astronomist, astrologist and alquimist; Maslama, astronomist: Yahya ben Ishak, physician; Said ben Abderrahibi, physician; Albucasim, famous chirurgeon around dark ages world.

Enough for today. Next day I´ll try to find trais and ancillaries for Asturias, and, if possible, of kingdom of Navarre (basques) and County of Barcelona (catalonians)

[Meneldil]

Well, Catalonia will be owned by the Western Franks at start, and the Basques won't be a faction on their own. Do you think either the Western Franks or the Asturians could use these offices ?

[Nacheras]

Well, I have posted about andalusian offices, not christian yet. I´m not sure about what are you talking about.

At 843 Pyrenaic spanish area was divided between the kingdom of Navarra (basques) at west and the Hispanic Mark at East. The Hispanic Mark belongued to West Frankish Kingdom, and were divided by about 10 countys. It depended of the marquis of Gothia (former gothic gaul province of Septimania). Hispaniv Mark and Gothia were united until 865, being then divided. The most powerful count was the count of Barcelona, that usually (not always) were the effective marquis of all the Hispanic Mark.

At 877 frank emperor Charles declares offices inheritable.
About 898 count Wilfred of Barcelona began an semi-independent way from the frankish kings for Hispanic Mark. But officialy the counts of Barcelona continue to be theorical vasals to the West frankish king.
Legal independence from him has a difficult exactly date.
Around 950-970 AD counts of Barcelona dominated most of countys of the Mark (except those that remained aragonese) and then their territory received the name of County of Barcelona. Catalonia is a later name, used in full XI century.

If you are thinking about make the catalonians an emerging faction, I believe is better name the province as Hispanic Mark (historical accurate at 843) and County of Barcelona as faction name, that this is the official name for catalonians until XV century. Its banner was a red cross over white flag (St George cross). Later was quarted with the four red stacks on gold.

[Meneldil]

Unhappilly, there won't be any other spanish faction beside Asturia and the Omeyyads.

I was speaking about the Basque and Catalunians (?) offices. Do you think they could be used by the Western Franks, by the Omeyyads or by the Asturians ? If not, they will be of little use for the mod, since we we won't have Navarra and Catalunia as playable factions.

[Nacheras]

Ok, now I understand. I think that, in fact, were the catalonians who used frankish offices.
Navarre kingdom was very "original", so I think you cannot use its offices for franks, could be for asturians.

For Asturias:

offices: Alfonso II (about 800-842) reconstructed the "Aula Regia", the gothic royal court.
comites or counts: governors of provinces. Most importants were count of Galicia and Count of Castilla.
comites palatinii: court offices. Cubicularius, coperus
dukes: military heads of the towns.
iudex: judges of the towns.

traits: adoptionist believes (- popularity in christian provinces), hates or despises muslims (+ command against muslims), saint apparitions ~:) (+ morale of troops and christian conversion), gothic blood in his veins (+ influence), devout of Saint James (+ influence and christian conversion), likes hunter (+ movement), dislikes hunter (- popularity), believes in ordalia (God´s judgement) (+ christian conversion - management)

ancillaries: monk (+ christian conversion and popularity in christian provinces), monastery copist (+ management) catholic bishop (+ christian conversion and influence), chancillery priest scribe (++ management), trujiman or translator-ambassador to muslims (+ influence), jewish financier (+ management or/and tax, - popularity), jewish trader (+ trader and trader taxes, - popularity), sayon or law agent (+ public order and law), fidel palatii or bodyguard (+ personal security), majordomus similar to frankish (+ management and influence), hunter (+ sight line and movements)

real ancilliaries: Bernardo del Carpio, famous warrior (+ command), Cross of Pelayo (+ christian conversion and ++ influence), Eulogius of Cordoba, bishop and martyr to sarrains (+ christian conversion and command against muslims), Beatus of Liebana, erudit and polemist against adopcionists (+ christian conversion and management).

That´s all for now. I will continue investigating.
Generally you can assign frank trais and ancillaries to the asturian generals if necessary.

[Meneldil]

Nice list.
Btw, do you know if there was missi dominici in the Asturian Kingdom ?

[Nacheras]

What is a missi dominici? ~:confused:

[Ranika]

What is the manner of offices?

[Meneldil]

The "manner" of office ? What do you mean ?

Missi Dominici were people working for the Carolingian kings

[Ranika]

That is to say, what are offices, as in, what is their purpose in game?

[Meneldil]

They grant bonus to named characters' stats.

[Ranika]

Ah, alright. Don't have BI yet, so was unaware. Do all factions get offices? Could put them together for Ireland and Alba.

[Meneldil]

Well, in BI, I just noticed offices for the Sassanids and the Romans. But I think adding new ones is just like adding ancilliaries.

And yeah, we would happilly use offices for the Gealic factions, aswell as relics, legendary weapons and stuffs like that.

[Ranika]

Alright;

Bonuses I'm not totally sure how they work, so what seems appropriate with these;

Gaelic offices:
Ruire (King; Faction leader)
Tanaise (Tanist; Faction heir)
Flath ('Prince' or 'Chief'; regional governors/leaders, administrators as well as military leaders)
Brehon ('Judge'; kept the peace, was in charge of organizing militias, as well as convened with other Brehon to vote on laws, and arbitrated in legal proceedings; every region had a few Brehon usually, selected from the most well-educated)
Cuinnaran ('Coiner'; head of a mint)
Ardtaidhleoir ('High Diplomat'; head chancellor of the kingdom)
Easpag ('Bishop' of a region)

Gaelic ancillaries (I posted more elsewhere);
Religious (Related to governing a province with religious structures)
Manarch - A monk usually was included in a chief's retainers largely to help him keep track of finances and as a personal tutor. - +Management (in a chief's retinue, it's unlikely he would be converting many people, since monks had no one to delegate to)
Ab - An abbot is a very learned monk, and head of a monastary. His signs of confidence in a leader are a boon, and he brings both considerable skill and a private cadre of monks to aide him. - +Christian conversion, influence, and management
Sagart - A priest was not an uncommon part of a Gaelic chief's followers, for both keeping a region Christian, and for aide in managing finances, as Gaelic priests were often byproducts of the best local schools. - +Christian conversion, and management
Easpag - A bishop entered into the personal retinue of a king or chief was a sign of prestige and influence; it represents a vote of confidence from the Church itself in the abilities of a man. - +Christian conversion, influence, and management
Manarmainlia - A surgeon trained in a monastary is familiar with techniques to reduce pain, clean surgical tools, remove limbs, and staunch bloodflow; he, and his associates, are useful for improving the number of survivors after a battle. - +Increases number of survivors after a battle
Scribhneoir - A scribe assigned to a chief or king takes an exhaustive record of his life; he copies down his speeches, major events, such as the birth of children, or death of close relatives or friends. - +Increases influence

Militaristic (Related to military structures or winning battles)
Gasog - Military scouts search the nearby area, and examine an enemy's position to give a commander an improved idea of how to conduct a battle. - +Armies line-of-sight, and command
Curadha - A champion in the service of a chief raises his men's morale and encourages them to fight harder. - +Morale to troops in the army, maybe an additional bodyguard or something if possible
Cogaflath - A warchief is a skilled lesser chief who has shown a knack for command. Coupled with another leader, his abilities are useful for coordinating a battle. - +Command when attacking
Dunflath - A fort-chief is a defender of a cashel, and is best used in this ability. - +Command when defending during a siege
Seanlaochagal - A veteran soldier or mercenary of a foreign people is useful when fighting them. - +Command when fighting a specific culture (same basic ancillary of various types)

Civil (Related to governing a province with appropriate structures, like courts for judges, or markets for merchants/craftsmen, etc.)
Brehon - A judge is a useful associate, both for keeping law, and keep one's self out of trouble. - +Law in a province
Ceanna - A merchant is good both for his grasp of monetary matters, and his knowledge of the inner workings of trade. - +Trade income and management
Baiera - A treasurer has an intricate knowledge of mathematics, taxation, and budgetting, and is of use in eliminating costly waste and overspending. - +Tax income and management
Ealaiont - An artisan crafts something; banners, pictures, linen works, etc. This particular artisan crafts objects for his master's fame, such as elaborate metalworks or banners depicting his victories. - +Influence
Ceoltoiri - A band of musicians sings praises about their master,and improve his image in the eyes of the people he governs. - +Influence and happiness
Cogaceoltoiri - A band of war musicians sing and play war songs that help his men keep step when marching and inspire them before battle. - +Influence and morale of army


Some Relics/Objects;
Leabhar Ciella - 'The Book of Kells' was probably crafted on Iona, but sent back to Ireland. It is a work of exquisite beauty and craftsmanship, a testament to the skill of the artisan-monks who designed it. It is a mainly Irish manuscript containing the Four Gospels, a fragment of Hebrew names, and the Eusebian canons, known also as the "Book of Columba". So beautiful is it, that when it originally turned up in Kells, Ireland, it was believed that only angels could've made it. - +Influence, and maybe Christian conversion {many times Celtic Christians converted pagans by preaching as well as displaying works of art like this}

Criosa Cillar - 'The Cross of Killarn' was later lost, but in its day, was an important symbol of Gaelic Christendom. Forged in Ireland, it was given as a gift to a Dal Riadan chief as a show of good faith, and ultimately, ended up among the possessions of the king of Scotland. It was fancifully decorated with images of angels around the host, and was attributed miracles; the host was said to bleed or weep at different times, and apparitions of angels were often attributed to it. - +Christian conversion

Brideleamh - 'The Hand of Saint Bride'. This is not a colorful term; this relic is literally the hand of Saint Bride, a beloved Irish saint. While later presented to Lisbon in Portugal as a sign of good relations, after Irish crusaders aided in taking the city from Muslims, it resided longest in Ireland, Scotland, and occassionally Wales. It was a widely travelled relic; Bride was loved by more than just the Irish, and the miracles associated with the hand were profound enough that everyone desired it to tour their kingdom. Visions of the saint, angels, the Messiah, and the Virgin have all been attributed to it at different times. - +Christian conversion

Ninnidhleamh - 'The Hand of Saint Ninnidh'; this relic does not actually contain Saint Ninnidh's hand. Ninnidh attended the dying Saint Bride, and was famed for having had his right hand encased in metal, as to never allow it to be defiled. This is the encasement. Lost, along with some of the relics of Saint Bride, during Norman raids, it was originally a part of the King of Munster's treasury, encased in a stone box, until he deemed to move it to Armagh. Like other relics of this nature, it was associated with saintly visions and inspirations, or healing those who touched it or prayed by it. - +Christian conversion

Padraightaisead - 'The Shroud of Saint Patrick'; this is not the final shroud of St. Patrick, but was one of two shrouds made by Saint Bride for Patrick's internment after he died. The second shroud was removed before burial, and hidden away for many years in the holdings of the king of Leinster, and appeared later, worn as a cloak by the high kings during their coronations; a symbol of divine providence and favor. Like many similar relics, visions and miracles are attested to it. Before it was lost, it was normally held, not by the kings, but by a shifting mileu of chieftains assigned to defend it. - +Influence and Christian conversion

[Meneldil]

Thanks Ranika, although I think the first 2 offices would fit better as traits.

[Csatadi]

Are there offices? Really?

Magyars had 3 kind of (known) offices.

Kende - sybolic leader
Gyula - military leader
Horka - judge

The exact use of the word gyula by the Magyars is unclear but, based on contemporary sources, many Hungarian historians believe that under the system of dual kingship which the Magyars used in the 9th century, the two kings of the tribal confederation were the kende (or kündü) and the gyula. While the former was the nominal leader, the latter was the chief warlord or military commander.

Horka or harka was a title used by the Magyar tribes in the 9th and centuries. According to Emperor Constantine Porphyrogennetos in De administrando imperio, the horka had judicial authority. However, in other sources the term horka was applied to a military leader (such as Bulcsú who led the Magyar forces at the Battle of Lechfeld). Certainly at some point in the 10th century the roles of horka and gyula (the chief warlord) had became similar, with the horka having authority in Western Transdanubia and the gyula in Transylvania in the east. In later sources the word appears only as a personal name.

The Faction leader can be the kende with many but only influence bonus. The Gyula can play the role of the faction heir as a commanding leader. I suggest to choose the Gyula by the command rank of the characters instead of the influence (?).
The Horka can be a trait, too but the other two cannot get this office. He may get law bonus - what else? ~:cool:

[Nacheras]

Sorry, but I have not ever heard about "missi dominici" at asturian royal court.

They had personal bodyguards called gardingi or fideles, as in gothic times, and other court offices.
I am still looking for that information.
I´ll post here when I find it.

Thanks.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I hadn't thought of offices yet, but it's good. One example I can think of ATM is the BEK for the Khazar Khaganate. The faction leader is the khagan, but the Bek is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and in practise held much of the real power. Could be and office associated with influence and command stars.

[Ranika]

Thanks Ranika, although I think the first 2 offices would fit better as traits.

That's fine, but Alba should have 'Righ' for their king (technically he was considered a Flath or Flabh until he took control of southern Pictland, and then was referred to as 'Righ').

Is it possible for the Irish Ruire to become 'Ard Ruire' if they control all of Ireland? And how many offices are allowed? The Gaels had many minor officials and the like; I wouldn't include all of them in any event, but was thinking about 'Deais' (Chief) and things like that.

[Meneldil]

Is it possible for the Irish Ruire to become 'Ard Ruire' if they control all of Ireland?

No idea. I don't know how moddable are the conditions for acquiring traits.




And how many offices are allowed? The Gaels had many minor officials and the like; I wouldn't include all of them in any event, but was thinking about 'Deais' (Chief) and things like that.

The more we have is the better. I don't think we'll reach the hardcoded limit on ancilliaries (if there's an hardcoded limit) anyway.

[Csatadi]

I hadn't thought of offices yet, but it's good. One example I can think of ATM is the BEK for the Khazar Khaganate. The faction leader is the khagan, but the Bek is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and in practise held much of the real power. Could be and office associated with influence and command stars.

Please, what do the ATM and the BEK mean? And HRE?

Btw Magyars got the idea of dual kingship from the Khazars.

[Meneldil]

Please, what do the ATM and the BEK mean? And HRE?

Btw Magyars got the idea of dual kingship from the Khazars.

ATM = At The Moment
HRE = Holy Roman Empire or the Central Frankish Kingdom, which is somewhat unhistorical for our period.
BEK = I think that's just the word Bek with caps ~;)

[Nacheras]

I have looked at all my history books and knowed history links and I have found poorly information about asturican court.

king Alfonsus II (800-842) restored gothic Aula Regia (or royal Court). I´m not sure he restored exactly, but I am going to put you the offices of gothic Aula Regia in order to allow you use some of them (choose yourself as you like) as asturican offices.

- Rex (king) or faction leader.
- dux (duke): military head of a province and usually also civil power. The only historical asturican dux was dux of Galicia (dux Galicarum). (++ influence)
- Comites- singular comes (Count): were two kind of counts: local counts, as governors of towns and counties, and comites of "officia palatina" (royal court offices)

a) About local counts we know the powerful count of Castille (comes Castellarum) (+ influence and probably + command due to be a border county), count of Alava (+ influence), count of Bierzo (+ influence), count of Bureba (+ influence), count of Viseo (+ influence), count of Lugo (+ influence), count of Saldaña (or Saldania if you have not ñ) (+ influence), count of Carrion (+ influence), count of Dueñas/Duenias (+ influence)

b) royal court offices (remember, gothic offices, could not be as exactly as in asturias):
- comes cubiculi: as in roman times, reliable person near the king, in order to advise him. (++ influence, - personal security, because of the envy and the court plots)
- comes scanciarum: similar to majordomus in frank kingdom, but with no comparable power (+ influence)
- comes thesaurorum: head of the royal treasure. (++ management, + tax collection- he does not listen at odd tales at the moment of tax collection ~;) )
- comes patrimonii: administrator about royal inheritance possesions (+ management, could be + farmer and trader)
- comes notariarum: he controls all the documents of the chancellory (+ management, + influence)
- comes stabuli: head of the royal stables (I suposse + when command cavalry...)
- comes spatariorum: head of the personal royal bodyguards (+ perosnal security and could be + command). I think this office really doesn´t exist at asturican times, so be sensible about it.
- comes civitatis: major of the royal court town. Depend on where you put the capital it could be comes civitatis ovetensis or comes civitatis legionensis, but I think if you are going to let the player to move the capital it could be wise name it as simple "comes regis civitatis". (+ influence, + personal security)

Of course I will try to achive historial sure asturican offices, but you can begin with these ones.
Good work, guys!

[Nacheras]

Here am I again... :)

I think about agents (spy, diplomat, assasin), and could be you want to put surnames to them.

You can use the name+az or -ez about I´ve talking about yet. i.e Froilaz, Garces, Fernandez, Gonzalez, Ansurez, Sanchez, Velez, Vermudez, Ordoniez, Menendez, Ximenez or Jimenez, Nuniez, Munaz, Dieguez or Diaz...

In fact, I think that at IX century only the great nobles (magnates) used surname.

You can use the name of the birth town too. And then I provide you of a good list of towns to add as "of..." to the name:
Cangas, Pravia, Compostela, Valtierra, Gijon, Cosgaya, Tuy, Astorga (Asturica), Lugo (Lucus), Oporto, Braga, Chavez, Viseo, Simancas, Ledesma, Agueda, Salamanca, Zamora, Toro, Saldaña, Mabe, Amaya, Oca, Avila, Segovia, Sepúlveda, Clunica, Arganza, Osma, Miranda, Revenga, Cenicero, Carbonaria, Alesanco,Palencia, Valladolid, Sahagun, Santillana, Burgos, Lamego, Soria, Coca, Vitoria, Calahorra, Najera, Orense, Mieres.

[Csatadi]

Meneldil: thanks. I found also 'bek'.

[Meneldil]

Here am I again... :)


You can use the name of the birth town too. And then I provide you of a good list of towns to add as "of..." to the name:
Cangas, Pravia, Compostela, Valtierra, Gijon, Cosgaya, Tuy, Astorga (Asturica), Lugo (Lucus), Oporto, Braga, Chavez, Viseo, Simancas, Ledesma, Agueda, Salamanca, Zamora, Toro, Saldaña, Mabe, Amaya, Oca, Avila, Segovia, Sepúlveda, Clunica, Arganza, Osma, Miranda, Revenga, Cenicero, Carbonaria, Alesanco,Palencia, Valladolid, Sahagun, Santillana, Burgos, Lamego, Soria, Coca, Vitoria, Calahorra, Najera, Orense, Mieres.

Unfortunatly, agents and characters share the same name lists, so either we use surnames for everyone (except captains) or we don't use them at all. Do you know an 'asturian' equivalent for 'of' ? 'De' ?

[Nacheras]

Unfortunatly, agents and characters share the same name lists, so either we use surnames for everyone (except captains) or we don't use them at all. Do you know an 'asturian' equivalent for 'of' ? 'De' ?

Mmmmh, difficult question. In fact, there was not "asturian language" in that time. All the official documents were scribed in latin. Surely, as in other parts of "Romania", there was a popular spoken local version of latin, that in later centuries derived in galaic, asturian, leonese or the more spreadly castilian, but first documents in that languages belongs two centuries after the beginning of game.

"de" is "of" in modern spanish, not at that time.
If you want to achieve maximum reality, you must to use latin forms for asturian names (and arab forms in arabic alphabet for andalusies ~D ). In fact, most of names I have provide you are modern form spanish names of old latin, gothic or pre-roman names.

i.e, if you want to name a character as "Vermond of Oviedo", you can post "Vermudo de Oviedo" in modern spanish, but if you want to be historical exactly, you must name as "Veremundus ovetensis" (I think, cause I´m not an expert in latin ~:rolleyes: ).

Is your choose which form will be used. IMO has no sense to use spanish modern forms, except could be for names without known original forms. And has little sense use a "mix" of spanish, latin and english.
Using latin forms you really hit a good kick of historically accuracy, but you will need a latin expert, and most of the names I will provide will remain untranslatable or simply posted as "macaronic latin".

Sorry, I don´t know if I have helped you or have I confused you more. ~:eek:
In any case please don´t doubt about questioning anything.

Good work and go on.

[Meneldil]

Well, yeah, we'll try not to mix ancient latin, modern spanish and visigothic ~D

The best would be to have some good latin speaker, cause he would be helpful for both Asturians and Franks.

Btw, could you help me by providing a list of all the names you posted in alphabetical order, kinda like Csatadi did in the previous page ? That would be really handy, cause I currently have a lot of work (studying, helping EB, testing the viking factions ~D )

[Nacheras]

Well, yeah, we'll try not to mix ancient latin, modern spanish and visigothic ~D
The best would be to have some good latin speaker, cause he would be helpful for both Asturians and Franks.
Btw, could you help me by providing a list of all the names you posted in alphabetical order, kinda like Csatadi did in the previous page ? That would be really handy, cause I currently have a lot of work (studying, helping EB, testing the viking factions ~D )

Male asturian names

Adaninus
Adeca
Adefonsus/Athalfuns (goth)
Aierio
Aldroitus
Aloitus/Alois (german)
Alvarus
Annaia
Ansuro
Antin
Anton
Antonius
Apringius
Arduca
Arias
Aurelius
Ausonio
Adolfus/Astholf (lombard)
Bagauda
Beatus
Belaius
Bellidus
Berengarius
Bernardus
Boronta
Bureus
Calorato
Casius
Cesius
Cervelius
Christophorus
Chrsituevalus
Cisila
Dia
Didaco
Diego
Dulcidus
Egerius
Eita
Eiximenus
Elias
Elipandus
Elisipus
Emerardus/Hemerard (goth)
Eulogius
Favila-Fafila
Felix
Ferdinandus/Ferdinand (goth)
Fidelius
Flacencius
Flacianus
Flaino
Flavius
Florentius
Fortis
Fortunius
Fredegarius/Fredgard (frank)
Froila
Garcia
Gatonius
Gemellus
Genesius
Gisando
Glimirus/Gelmir (goth)
Gomis
Guntericus
Gustio
Gutierre
Harmonius
Hermenegildus/Ermenkhild (goth)
Heterius
Holalio
Ienesius
Iohannes
Kintila
Julianus
Lope
Lucas
Mames
Manricus/Mannrikh (goth)
Martinus
Matrolo
Maurecatus
Melendus
Menendus
Monnio
Monito
Montano
Nepotianus
Nunio
Nonito
Odoarius
Opila
Ordonio
Orvano
Pascual
Pelagius
Penoio
Pepi
Petrus
Puniolus
Radolfus/Randolf (goth)
Raimundus/Radimund
Ranemirus/Radomir (goth)
Recafredus
Recaredus/Rekhard (goth)
Revelio
Rodanio
Rodericus/Rodrikh (goth)
Rotibus
Samson
Sancio
Sarracinus
Saulus
Savaricus
Scipionus
Sebastianus
Servandus
Severus
Silo
Soario
Sonna
Stephanus
Suinitus
Tellus
Teoda
Teodila
Teodulfus/Teodulph (german)
Teudemirus/Teodomir (goth)
Tinnus
Tizo
Toribius
Usunnio
Uzerius
Valerius
Veila
Velascus
Veremundus/Vermund (goth)
Victorius
Vida
Vigila
Vimaranus/Vimara (goth)
Vincebilis
Vincentius
Zamma
Zezius
Zoilus
Zonius



Female asturias names

Aba
Adosinda
Aldonza
Anella
Argilo
Bermesinda
Brunila
Caudiosa
Creusa
Christina
Elvira
Ermesinda
Faquilo
Favinia
Froiliuba
Galla
Goto
Hildegarda
Icka
Leodegundia
Marina
Masita
Munia
Nunia
Nunilona
Oneca
Ozenda
Paterna
Sancia
Sara
Savilli
Terencia
Teudilla
Tezana
Thisiena
Togia
Urbana
Urraca
Valeria
Verilde
Ximena


Male Basque (kingdom of Navarra) names

Antzo
Asnar
Bela
Eblo
Enneko
Fortunio/Fortun (basque)
Garcia
Gondesalvo
Gustio
Rodericus/Ruy (basque)
Sanctius
Sigerici/Geriz (basque)
Ximeno/Gemeno (basque)


Female basque names

Aldoncia
Anderazo
Belascuza
Belasquita
Çinara
Constanza
Domeca
Domicussa
Elvira
Emazteona
Endregoto
Fronilla
Iuxta
Jurdana
Justa
Leguntia
Lupa
Maria
Mencia
Muniadona
Oneca
Ortissa
Sancia
Toda
Urraca
Yenega
Zianna



Hispanic Mark (catalonian and aragonese) male names

Acenar
Albinus
Aleran
Angelinus
Ansur
Arifred
Armengol
Arnaudus
Asnarius
Babila
Bela
Belasco
Bellon
Bera
Berenguerius
Bernardus
Bertrand
Bivas
Borrelius
Bradila
Centollius
Cesarius
Chacus
Dacho
Dato
Elias
Enneko
Ermennisculus
Estebanus
Exemeno
Ferriolus
Filgolo
Fortunio
Galindus
Garsia
Gerallo
Gilbert
Guillem
Gundisalvo
Hug
Humfred
Incalzatus
Magier
Maiolphus
Mancio
Mascarone
Martinus
Miro
Odalric
Odila
Oleguer
Oliba
Oriol
Petrus
Pontius
Porcelius
Ranimirus
Rampo
Raymond
Raterus
Robert
Rodebaldus
Rodulf
Sabarinus
Sancio
Salomon
Sampiro
Savigildus
Scemeno
Scluva
Suniarius
Sunifred
Uincentius
Vida
Vigila
Wifred
Wiliesindus
Witard


Hispanic Mark female names

Ahalaez
Ailo
Ato
Balla
Cixilona
Dadildis
Emma
Emon
Ermisenda
Ermisindis
Fakilo
Maria
Matrona
Petronila
Richildis
Vinidildes



All them are real names, from around 750 until around 1030.

I hope this list will be enough, because I´m exhausted (remembre, that dismish the moralle ~;) ) of searching history books.

Next day I´ll post about surnames in latin.
But first I will take a short "historic holiday". Surely I´ll pass my time playing RTW-BI or RTR ~D

[Meneldil]

Thanks a lot Nacheras. I'm adding them to the game right now :bow:

[Nacheras]

btw, I have a question.

I suppose that in RTW hardcore there is some problem about the order number of kings, due to never appears an Seluco II i.e, or a Alexander III. Always the royal name is different for any king.

Please tell me if I´m in right. If it´s so, its a really pity, because at least in asturican royal familiy some names repeats mostly (Ordonio, Radomir, Adefonsus, Garcia) and the correct way for the game should be a large list of Radomir II, Ordonio III or Adefonsus V.

Thanks

[Meneldil]

That's unfortunately not possible as far as I know. It might be possible to work something with traits, but I doubt it.

Anyway, I sent you a PM, could you check your box ?

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Hey people,

Last year a some friends and I collected a few namelists for the Modlet (link in my sig.) Everybody vanished after RTW was released and some even abandoned TW modding at all. But I decided to complete the thing "as is", ie with whatever at hand and release it as an incomplete beta. Anyway, I've taken on the name lists since yesterday, formatted some of them, verified bits and pieces etc. AFAIK the naming format from MTW to RTW hasn't changed, so MTW formatted lists must work in RTW too. (If they are different I can convert them in Excel.)

Anyway, here are the lists we have at hand:

German (HRE era), aquitaine + languedoc + provence, aragon, baltic peoples, castillia + léon, welsh, irish (probably obsolete when you have Ranika instead ~;)), czech, armenian (kilikian), french, english, swedish, khazar, kievan rus, kypchaq/cuman (approved by Forgus today :bow:), polish, lithuanian, mongol mixed with uyghur, norse, papal, rhomaioi (byz.), scots, finnish.

Here are the ones (male only, forenames and surnames seperately) I formatted for MTW use:

castillia + léon, german (HRE), french, kievan, polish, rhomaioi

I'm doing the rest as we talk.

I can upload/post/send one of you if you need them. As they're not solely my work credits should be cited:

solo, Eastside Character, Tricky Lady, Swordsmaster

Btw, I see you have name CTDs. It happens if you use any character not found in the English alphabet in the ["label"] part. Use them only in the {"data"} part. Ie:

["Tunon"] {"Tuñon"}
.

[Meneldil]

Hey Mouzafphaerre, any help with the names would be really appreciated. I'm not sure which names we could use for our mod, so I'll likely send you a PM once we've made up our minds.

The CTD issues were solved thanks to Teleklos. :bow:

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Fine (no CTDs). I just read the first page, so... ~;)
.

[Meneldil]

Nacheras, do you know what was the exact title of the King of Asturias ? Something like Rex Asturiarum I guess. Too bad I forgot all my latin :san_embarassed:

[Nacheras]

Rex asturorum.

[Riadach]

Many of the offices you're mentioning here vary from mispelt to inaccurate to non-existent. You a charlatan ranika?


Alright;

Bonuses I'm not totally sure how they work, so what seems appropriate with these;

Gaelic offices:
Ruire (King; Faction leader)
Tanaise (Tanist; Faction heir)
Flath ('Prince' or 'Chief'; regional governors/leaders, administrators as well as military leaders)
Brehon ('Judge'; kept the peace, was in charge of organizing militias, as well as convened with other Brehon to vote on laws, and arbitrated in legal proceedings; every region had a few Brehon usually, selected from the most well-educated)
Cuinnaran ('Coiner'; head of a mint)
Ardtaidhleoir ('High Diplomat'; head chancellor of the kingdom)
Easpag ('Bishop' of a region)

Gaelic ancillaries (I posted more elsewhere);
Religious (Related to governing a province with religious structures)
Manarch - A monk usually was included in a chief's retainers largely to help him keep track of finances and as a personal tutor. - +Management (in a chief's retinue, it's unlikely he would be converting many people, since monks had no one to delegate to)
Ab - An abbot is a very learned monk, and head of a monastary. His signs of confidence in a leader are a boon, and he brings both considerable skill and a private cadre of monks to aide him. - +Christian conversion, influence, and management
Sagart - A priest was not an uncommon part of a Gaelic chief's followers, for both keeping a region Christian, and for aide in managing finances, as Gaelic priests were often byproducts of the best local schools. - +Christian conversion, and management
Easpag - A bishop entered into the personal retinue of a king or chief was a sign of prestige and influence; it represents a vote of confidence from the Church itself in the abilities of a man. - +Christian conversion, influence, and management
Manarmainlia - A surgeon trained in a monastary is familiar with techniques to reduce pain, clean surgical tools, remove limbs, and staunch bloodflow; he, and his associates, are useful for improving the number of survivors after a battle. - +Increases number of survivors after a battle
Scribhneoir - A scribe assigned to a chief or king takes an exhaustive record of his life; he copies down his speeches, major events, such as the birth of children, or death of close relatives or friends. - +Increases influence

Militaristic (Related to military structures or winning battles)
Gasog - Military scouts search the nearby area, and examine an enemy's position to give a commander an improved idea of how to conduct a battle. - +Armies line-of-sight, and command
Curadha - A champion in the service of a chief raises his men's morale and encourages them to fight harder. - +Morale to troops in the army, maybe an additional bodyguard or something if possible
Cogaflath - A warchief is a skilled lesser chief who has shown a knack for command. Coupled with another leader, his abilities are useful for coordinating a battle. - +Command when attacking
Dunflath - A fort-chief is a defender of a cashel, and is best used in this ability. - +Command when defending during a siege
Seanlaochagal - A veteran soldier or mercenary of a foreign people is useful when fighting them. - +Command when fighting a specific culture (same basic ancillary of various types)

Civil (Related to governing a province with appropriate structures, like courts for judges, or markets for merchants/craftsmen, etc.)
Brehon - A judge is a useful associate, both for keeping law, and keep one's self out of trouble. - +Law in a province
Ceanna - A merchant is good both for his grasp of monetary matters, and his knowledge of the inner workings of trade. - +Trade income and management
Baiera - A treasurer has an intricate knowledge of mathematics, taxation, and budgetting, and is of use in eliminating costly waste and overspending. - +Tax income and management
Ealaiont - An artisan crafts something; banners, pictures, linen works, etc. This particular artisan crafts objects for his master's fame, such as elaborate metalworks or banners depicting his victories. - +Influence
Ceoltoiri - A band of musicians sings praises about their master,and improve his image in the eyes of the people he governs. - +Influence and happiness
Cogaceoltoiri - A band of war musicians sing and play war songs that help his men keep step when marching and inspire them before battle. - +Influence and morale of army


Some Relics/Objects;
Leabhar Ciella - 'The Book of Kells' was probably crafted on Iona, but sent back to Ireland. It is a work of exquisite beauty and craftsmanship, a testament to the skill of the artisan-monks who designed it. It is a mainly Irish manuscript containing the Four Gospels, a fragment of Hebrew names, and the Eusebian canons, known also as the "Book of Columba". So beautiful is it, that when it originally turned up in Kells, Ireland, it was believed that only angels could've made it. - +Influence, and maybe Christian conversion {many times Celtic Christians converted pagans by preaching as well as displaying works of art like this}

Criosa Cillar - 'The Cross of Killarn' was later lost, but in its day, was an important symbol of Gaelic Christendom. Forged in Ireland, it was given as a gift to a Dal Riadan chief as a show of good faith, and ultimately, ended up among the possessions of the king of Scotland. It was fancifully decorated with images of angels around the host, and was attributed miracles; the host was said to bleed or weep at different times, and apparitions of angels were often attributed to it. - +Christian conversion

Brideleamh - 'The Hand of Saint Bride'. This is not a colorful term; this relic is literally the hand of Saint Bride, a beloved Irish saint. While later presented to Lisbon in Portugal as a sign of good relations, after Irish crusaders aided in taking the city from Muslims, it resided longest in Ireland, Scotland, and occassionally Wales. It was a widely travelled relic; Bride was loved by more than just the Irish, and the miracles associated with the hand were profound enough that everyone desired it to tour their kingdom. Visions of the saint, angels, the Messiah, and the Virgin have all been attributed to it at different times. - +Christian conversion

Ninnidhleamh - 'The Hand of Saint Ninnidh'; this relic does not actually contain Saint Ninnidh's hand. Ninnidh attended the dying Saint Bride, and was famed for having had his right hand encased in metal, as to never allow it to be defiled. This is the encasement. Lost, along with some of the relics of Saint Bride, during Norman raids, it was originally a part of the King of Munster's treasury, encased in a stone box, until he deemed to move it to Armagh. Like other relics of this nature, it was associated with saintly visions and inspirations, or healing those who touched it or prayed by it. - +Christian conversion

Padraightaisead - 'The Shroud of Saint Patrick'; this is not the final shroud of St. Patrick, but was one of two shrouds made by Saint Bride for Patrick's internment after he died. The second shroud was removed before burial, and hidden away for many years in the holdings of the king of Leinster, and appeared later, worn as a cloak by the high kings during their coronations; a symbol of divine providence and favor. Like many similar relics, visions and miracles are attested to it. Before it was lost, it was normally held, not by the kings, but by a shifting mileu of chieftains assigned to defend it. - +Influence and Christian conversion

[ScionTheWorm]

what do you mean? you're just quoting him without pointing out any specific details. always nice to hear it from the experts.. :wall:

[Riadach]

Fair enough scion, only the last time i tried it it took me an hour and a half and it deleted on me well firstly

Gaelic offices:
Ruire (King; Faction leader)
Tanaise (Tanist; Faction heir)
Flath ('Prince' or 'Chief'; regional governors/leaders, administrators as well as military leaders)
Brehon ('Judge'; kept the peace, was in charge of organizing militias, as well as convened with other Brehon to vote on laws, and arbitrated in legal proceedings; every region had a few Brehon usually, selected from the most well-educated)
Cuinnaran ('Coiner'; head of a mint)
Ardtaidhleoir ('High Diplomat'; head chancellor of the kingdom)
Easpag ('Bishop' of a region)

Right, ruire was not the name of the most pre-eminent king, ruire was a sub-king within a province usually who acted under the provincial king but could frequently be rebellious. For example Osraige was nominally under Rí Mumhain, the Ulaidh were nominally under Rí in Tuaiscirt(modern ulster), or Breifne under Rí Connachta but all acted with impugnity, whereas Eoghanacht loch Léin etc would be much more subserviant to the Rí Mumhain likewise with Uí Briúin Ai under the Rí Connachta or the Uí Dróna under Rí Laighean. The ruaire was following the way of the rí tuaithe by the ninth century, i.e rapidly diminishing of power, and his honorific title was being replaced by duces or in some instances The most pre-eminent king was the king of the province, Rí Connachta(Connacht) Rí Laighean (Laighin/ Leinster) Rí in Tuaiscirt/ Rí an Tuaiscirt(An Tuaisceart/the North/Modern day ulster also called Aileach after Grianán Ailigh, or referred to as the northern Uí Néill), and Rí Mumhain(Mumha, Munster).On achieving submission/hostages of the other provinces, a provincial king became Rí Érenn, which was first achieved my Maoilseachlainn I, king of the southern Uí Néill in the middle of the Ninth century, quite pertinent to the mod, i think. The term Ard-Rí was not used till the twelfth century.

Flaith was not an office but just a prince great lord or even a bishop. No evidence they were used in adminstration. Administrative offices in early ireland included the maer/maor, i.e. the steward, usually of a noble family, so may be equivalent to a treasurer. Then the toibhgheoir/aos toibhigh or taxmen
who performed the normal everyday cess. There was also the muire, a lord who was bailiff of a territory. There was the Airrí or governor used in the 9th tenth eleventh and twelfth centuries to control other kings provinces after submission, i.e. a governor. The reachtaire who was keeper of palaces and forts. Never heard of a breitheamh(brehon naturally is an anglicisation) organising militias. The nearest thing to a militia would have been the ceithearn, fian bands or the díbheargaigh but i'll refer to such later. The breitheamhain didn't vote on laws either they all interpreted them from canon law the brehon laws and local enactions and customs and they were not an appointable office as 7 years training was required in SCHOOLS.

Cuinnearan- sounds like the gaelic form of coiner to me. most of irish (unsure about scottish) exchange was in silver bullion in this period. They worked with pingin(a norse borrowing) unga(ounce) scrupall(scruple) and sét(literally a jewel or valuable item). cattle wheat etc were still used in exchange. think a Saor airgead or silversmith could imply the same thing. Coinage was only introduced by the norse and native coinage didn't appear till the second half of the 12th century, and even then we are unsure.

Ardtaidhleoir- okay but there were other more common words for emissaries like teachta, teachtaire or misidear(romance loan-word) Toscaireacht was a delegation, taidhleoir seems a bit to modern. Reathaí (rethaige) was a messenger or simple runner.

Easpag-. most bishops in this period had nominal if any power. Ireland was a monastic church at this period remember. The comharba would have had the same power as an archbishop elsewhere, and the airchinneach of a local bishop, it was they who guarded the relics and provided the local clergy. The abbot (ab) of a monastery would be like the head of a collegiate church of canons. Bishops did not gain power till rath breasail in 1111.

Now religion, always thorny and unclear in early ireland.

Gaelic ancillaries (I posted more elsewhere);
Religious (Related to governing a province with religious structures)
Manarch - A monk usually was included in a chief's retainers largely to help him keep track of finances and as a personal tutor. - +Management (in a chief's retinue, it's unlikely he would be converting many people, since monks had no one to delegate to)
Ab - An abbot is a very learned monk, and head of a monastary. His signs of confidence in a leader are a boon, and he brings both considerable skill and a private cadre of monks to aide him. - +Christian conversion, influence, and management
Sagart - A priest was not an uncommon part of a Gaelic chief's followers, for both keeping a region Christian, and for aide in managing finances, as Gaelic priests were often byproducts of the best local schools. - +Christian conversion, and management
Easpag - A bishop entered into the personal retinue of a king or chief was a sign of prestige and influence; it represents a vote of confidence from the Church itself in the abilities of a man. - +Christian conversion, influence, and management
Manarmainlia - A surgeon trained in a monastary is familiar with techniques to reduce pain, clean surgical tools, remove limbs, and staunch bloodflow; he, and his associates, are useful for improving the number of survivors after a battle. - +Increases number of survivors after a battle
Scribhneoir - A scribe assigned to a chief or king takes an exhaustive record of his life; he copies down his speeches, major events, such as the birth of children, or death of close relatives or friends. - +Increases influence

Manach for a start not manarch, don't understand if they had abbotts how would they have no one to which he could to delegate. Bit on sagart/(pl)sagairt is true, and i can't believe it was even suggested(elsewhere) that the irish didn't have schools. on that point i am in full agreement with Ranika. Scríbhneoir is modern, scríbhighe would be more suitable as well as annálaí(annalist) senchae(historian who recorded all the adminstrative happenings of the tuath to memory) as well as the fer coimgne, same kind of idea, and croinice, the chronicler, who would put together the more indepth chronicles like the Chronicle of ireland or the fragmentary annals. Never heard of a manarlia but most of the lia, icí, miodh(all physicians) would have been monastically trained anyway, like the breitheamhain, the filí and the croincí/annálaithe. The better learned the scholar, the more likely he would gain a title like suí leigheann fer n-érenn the espert in learning of the men of ireland, could also be connacht etc. or suí leighis, expert in medicine, perhaps these titles were appointed by the king. As for easpag see above.
.
Militaristic (Related to military structures or winning battles)
Gasog - Military scouts search the nearby area, and examine an enemy's position to give a commander an improved idea of how to conduct a battle. - +Armies line-of-sight, and command
Curadha - A champion in the service of a chief raises his men's morale and encourages them to fight harder. - +Morale to troops in the army, maybe an additional bodyguard or something if possible
Cogaflath - A warchief is a skilled lesser chief who has shown a knack for command. Coupled with another leader, his abilities are useful for coordinating a battle. - +Command when attacking
Dunflath - A fort-chief is a defender of a cashel, and is best used in this ability. - +Command when defending during a siege
Seanlaochagal - A veteran soldier or mercenary of a foreign people is useful when fighting them. - +Command when fighting a specific culture (same basic ancillary of various types)

Gasóg is the mod irish for boy scout, not a military one. Sceimheal/Sceimhealta(pl) were skirmishers who performed such a task. Also had spies or fear bratha or brathadóirí(now means informer). Giraldus Cambrensis remarks on such frequently.

Curadh(curadha is pl) is correct, in fact the general was frequently such a champion, which would have been good for morale.

Never heard of a cogaflath but there was a tuairccnid catha/ tuairgní catha literally battle smiter, but had the functions of a general. In the early period they fought on their own but kings in this period went to battle with them.

Dúnflaith- suggest reachtaire here for an irish context. never heard of a dúnflath.

Seanlaoch- okay or crannlaoch if u prefer

Other military titles were taoiseach marcshlua(cavalry marshal) taoiseach cabhlaigh(admiral) taoiseach lucht tighe/teaghlaigh (head of household troop)

As regards soikernbannal or kernbannal that sounds like complete charlatanry to me. Firstly they are english spellings, secondly kern looks like ceithearn a war band, banal is the scots gaelic for troop but a troop of women or a ban-dáil- sounds like something you found in dwelly.

The horsemen in irish society were called marcach/marcaigh(pl). Had armour swords lances(though they couldn't couch them due to lack of stirrups) saddles and diamond shields (seen from high-crosses). They were not called ridire. ridire is a norse term from the word ritter thus not appropriate. in fact i've only seen ridire referring to english knights. Marcshlua is cavalry.

carbad- chariot cairbtheach- charioteer still in use till 9th century then fades out. involves the driver arra and the charioteer who would throw spears or fight with spears and swords. noble fighters mostly.

Amhas-mercenary an important element in irish warfare especially in the tenth century, its how bóroimhe was so successful. Well trained well armoured but taxing to the country as placed on them as bonnachta i.e. billeted troops and not a type of soldier.

Óglach/óglaoch was a young warrior- similar to a vassal who gave his services to his lord at a young age, comes from carpat ar imram, a wandering soldier paying homage to a random lord. Had best of equipment swords and armour and shields, given to him on submission. Óglachas became the irish for vassalage and this is where gallóglaigh came from.

Daoscarshlua(slua means hosting/army) or fodhaoine was the irish for peasants and perhaps in a military context aswell. Most peasants were under daor-géillsine or base-clientship which only required labour services, but they irish were known for building special defensive structures on the battlefield. (cladhaire the irish for coward means ditch-digger perhaps implying that he didn't fight on the battlefield like a hero but dug). Saor-géillsine or free-clientship was military service, but things were rapidly changing in these periods, perhaps with just spears and shields.

Many young men of the tuath were recruited into special bands the ceithearn, the fian or the díbheargaigh. the fian would perhaps have had swords, hence they are thought of as being more noble and inherited a literature. Ceithearn and díbheargaigh would perhaps have been spearmen. Ceithearn were more common, hence ceithearnach or kern became the name for the ordinary irish soldier. The díbheargaigh had pagan elements so were anathema to the church.

Archers are not really attested for. Irish for bow is bogha, from the norse, and saighead from the latin saggita and saighdeoir from the latin saggitarius. Also irish word Fiodh-bhac literally wooden curve but may be a loose description. We know of irish kings in the twelfth century employing bows and archers, but may have just got them from mercenaries. Perhaps
they used them like the throwing spears as in a prelude to a melee attack.

Civil (Related to governing a province with appropriate structures, like courts for judges, or markets for merchants/craftsmen, etc.)
Brehon - A judge is a useful associate, both for keeping law, and keep one's self out of trouble. - +Law in a province
Ceanna - A merchant is good both for his grasp of monetary matters, and his knowledge of the inner workings of trade. - +Trade income and management
Baiera - A treasurer has an intricate knowledge of mathematics, taxation, and budgetting, and is of use in eliminating costly waste and overspending. - +Tax income and management
Ealaiont - An artisan crafts something; banners, pictures, linen works, etc. This particular artisan crafts objects for his master's fame, such as elaborate metalworks or banners depicting his victories. - +Influence
Ceoltoiri - A band of musicians sings praises about their master,and improve his image in the eyes of the people he governs. - +Influence and happiness
Cogaceoltoiri - A band of war musicians sing and play war songs that help his men keep step when marching and inspire them before battle. - +Influence and morale of army

Brehon- breitheamh Ceanna- Ceannaighe Baiera- never heard of it maor could have such a position though. Ealaiont-ceard Ceoltoiri- oirfidigh was the irish for entertainers, which would be more appropriate here.

Listen wrecked here have more on arms and armour etc if people would like to see it, but recommend reading hayes-mccoy(anything really by him) marie-therese flanagan in military history of ireland- ó corráin in nationality and kingship and anything by simms or charles edwards.

There is more on those relics i have objection to. :sweatdrop:

[GoreBag]

Well, this'll be interesting.

What's wrong with Dwelly's, by the way?

[ScionTheWorm]

As regards soikernbannal or kernbannal that sounds like complete charlatanry to me. Firstly they are english spellings, secondly kern looks like ceithearn a war band, banal is the scots gaelic for troop but a troop of women or a ban-dáil- sounds like something you found in dwelly.

This message from Ranika is a month old so it's our fault, we just haven't remedied it yet.


I forgot. I used a few medieval terms for the Irish units; if you could tell some one and have such things remedied, that'd be very helpful. It's sometimes hard to find appropriate dark age terms.

Kern is a Norman name. Kernbannal is a Norman-Gaelic mash word employed by Normans in Ireland during the middle ages.

The proper name is 'Ceitheirn' (which was also used in the middle ages, but I find now it was also used in the dark ages). Archers are 'Saighduira' (which would later become a generic term for soldiers).

For the other stuff I'm clueless, but yes, it should be interesting

[Riadach]

Well, this'll be interesting.

What's wrong with Dwelly's, by the way?

Nothing really but bit anachronistic using a modern scots gaelic dictionary to provide terms from the middle irish period, especially since scots gaelic as written form didn't really emerge until the sixteenth century.

[GoreBag]

Nothing really but bit anachronistic using a modern scots gaelic dictionary to provide terms from the middle irish period, especially since scots gaelic as written form didn't really emerge until the sixteenth century.

I wouldn't even call it 'modern' Scots Gaelic, but you're totally right there. It just seemed as though you were dumping on it in general.

[Csatadi]

Names needed to:

-Khazars (we have the kings' list so we need only medieval jewish male and female names)
-Byzantines
-Abbassids
-Bulgars (Slav names!)
-Great Moravia
-Englisc
-Rus (especially females)
-DENMARK, NORWAY, SWEDEN female names
-Welsh female names
-Norman female names

If you want to help us please send such names to us.

[Agraes]

We can help you for welsh female names and 'Englisc' ones. I will give you the elements when the list will be over (for welsh females).

[Csatadi]

Agraes,
Thanks! I found a lot of Englisc and Welsh names yesterday so a shorter list would be perfect. ~;) If you need the list I can send it to you.

[Tjuguskeggr]

Names needed to:

-DENMARK, NORWAY, SWEDEN female names


If you want to help us please send such names to us.

Nice mod you are making.

A few random scandinavian female names (some of my ancestors from around AD 1000-1200, majority or all of them in use before AD 800)

Þorgerðr
Ingiríðr
Hildr
Ragnheiðr
Ragnhildr
Álfrún
Sigríðr
Ingibjörg
Ingiríðr
Þuríðr
Sólveig
Þóra
Þórdís
Þórunn
Þorbjörg
Valgerðr
Vilborg
Valborg
Bera

Þ, can be substituded with a Th or a T if the game doesn't support the olde ISO 8859-1 standard or equalants.. The ð substituded with a d... etc...

[Csatadi]

Thanks! Your ancestors are in the game now. Or at least their names. ~;)

[Csatadi]

Moravian males

Blahoslav
Bohdan
Bohumil
Bohumír
Bohuslav
Bojan
Boleslav
Borivoj
Borzivoi
Bozidar
Bratislav
Bretislav
Branislav
Budislav
Ceslav
Ctibor
Dalibor
Dobromil
Dobromir
Dobroslav
Drahomir
Durko
Dusan
Honza
Jarek
Jaromil
Jaromir
Jaropluk
Jaroslav
Jasny
Jur
Karda
Kvetoslav
Lubomir
Ludomir
Ludoslav
Mecislav
Milan
Miloslav
Miroslav
Mojmír
Mstislav
Nepomuk
Premysl
Pribina
Radek
Radomir
Radoslav
Rastislav
Samo
Slavomir
Sobeslav
Stanislav
Svatomir
Svatopluk
Svatoslav
Techomir
Techoslav
Veleslav
Venceslav
Vladimír
Vladislav
Vlastimil
Vojtech
Zbyhnev
Zelislav
Zdeslav
Zitomir
Zivan
Zlatan


Moravian females

Blahoslava
Bojana
Boleslava
Bohumira
Bohuslava
Bozidara
Bratislava
Bretislava
Branislava
Dobrila
Dobromila
Dobromira
Dobroslava
Drahomira
Dusana
Jarka
Kvetoslava
Libena
Ludmila
Lubomira
Mecislava
Milena
Miloslava
Miroslava
Pribislava
Radomira
Radoslava
Rostislava
Sobeslava
Stanislava
Svetlana
Trava
Veleslava
Venceslava
Vera
Vladimíra
Vladislava
Vlasta
Zbyhneva
Zdenka
Zdeslava
Zelislava
Zitomira
Zivanka
Zlata
Zoila
Zorah

[Rodion Romanovich]

Nice job Csatadi!

[Csatadi]

Actually these Moravian names are maybe modern but better than nothing.

[Zmei_Gorqnin]

As promised to Csatadi here's the list of bulgarian chirstian names. The feminine forms are the ones that end with "a".



ALEKSANDAR
ALEKSANDRA
ALEKSANDRINA
ANA
ANGEL
ANKA
ANNA
APOSTOL
ASEN
ATANAS
BILYANA
BOGDAN
BOGDANA
BOGOMIL
BOJIDAR
BORIS
BORISLAV
BORISLAVA
BOYANA
BOYKA
BOYKO
BRANIMIR
CHAVDAR
DAMYAN
DANAIL
DESISLAV
DESISLAVA
DIMITAR
DOBROMIR
DONKA
DRAGOMIR
EKATERINA
ELENA
ELISAVETA
EMIL
EMILIYA
EVA
EVANGELINA
FILIP
GALINA
GAVRAIL
GAVRIL
GEORGI
GERGANA
GRIGOR
HRISTINA
HRISTO
ILIA
IOAN
IORDAN
IRINA
IVA
IVAILO
IVAN
IVANA
IVANKA
IVAYLO
KALOYAN
KIRIL
KLIMENT
KONSTANTIN
KRASIMIR
KRASIMIRA
KRASTIO
LALA
LAZAR
LIDIYA
LILYANA
LYUDMILA
MAGDALENA
MARGARITA
MARIYA
MARKO
MARTA
MARTIN
MIKHAIL
MILA
MIRA
MIROSLAV
MLADEN
MOMCHIL
NADEJDA
NEVENA
NIKOLA
NIKOLAI
NIKOLINA
OGNYAN
PENKA
PENKO
PETAR
PETYA
PLAMEN
RADA
RADOMIR
RADOSLAV
RADOSLAVA
RAYA
RAYNA
ROSITSA
SAMUIL
SAVA
SILVIYA
SIMEON
SPAS
STANIMIR
STANISLAV
STANISLAVA
STEFAN
STOYAN
STOYANKA
SVETLANA
TATIANA
TEODOR
TEODORA
TEREZA
TODOR
TODORKA
TOMA
TSVETA
VARVARA
VASIL
VASILKA
VIKTOR
VIOLETA
VLADIMIR
VLADISLAV
YAKOV
YANA
YANKO
YOAN
YOANA
YORDAN
YORDANKA
YOSIF
YULIAN
YULIANA
YULIYA



Bye.

[Csatadi]

Thanks! Great help for us.


As promised to Csatadi here's the list of bulgarian chirstian names. The feminine forms are the ones that end with "a".

[almazor]

some islamique names:
http://www.coranix.com/103bis/
abassides ,umayades and fatimides caliphates

[beauchamp]

Here is an arabic name generator:
http://www.ummah.net/family/masc.html

http://www.ummah.net/family/fem.html

[almazor]

hi all,i have a list of names of the governer and thegeneral of al moravides:
Sir ibn Abi Bakr =the victorious no one efeat this man great attker and ambushera
Garur the captain of the backguards under yussef ibn tashafine (a great killer he execute radi the son of almotamide of sevilla)
Dawud ibn Aisha.
Muhammad ibn al-Hajj take Cordoba and the Guadalquivir valley early in the year
Abu Bakr ibn Ibrahiim
Muhammad ibn Ibrahim
Ali ibn al-Hajj
Muhammad ibn Aisha
Mazdali ibn Tilankan
Muhammad ibn Fatima
Yusuf ibn Tashfin
Tamim ibn Yusuf ibn Tashfin,
Al-Mustain of Zaragoza because the emirate of saragoza was under the protectorat of the almoravides
Emir Mubashir ibn Sulayman
Abu Bakr ibn Ibrahim ibn Tifilwit
Ali ibn Yusuf ibn Tashfin
Ali ibn Majjuz
Tashfin ibn Ali ibn Yusuf
Abu Hafs Umar ibn Ali ibn al-Hajj
Yahya ibn Ali ibn Ghaniya
Abul-Qasim Ahmad ibn al-Husayn al-Qasi rebel

[Marcus Furius Camillus]

the ''son off'' idea is great !
Perfect for generals or kings and a good idea to indicate a family relationship:


example : a ( fictional ! ) general named Harold dies of old age and his son Odo takes over the command of the army. The name of the new general :

Odo Haroldson

I don't know if this was also popular in western Europe :stupido: ( look my description ! ) but being called after your father or, more popular, your grandfather, was very popular in Carolingian and post - Carolingian Europe.:book:

A good idea ?