Byzantium Total War [Archive]

edyzmedieval

06-26-2005, 10:27

Hello modderz and friendz.

I want to ask you if you are interested in a Byzantium Total War mod.

It's a new mod, which is gonna have a new map and new starting times. The geographical position is as you might expect, Asia Minor and Europe, where the great Byzantine Empire has once stood. Many new units shall be added, bringing a totally different flavour to MTW. Starting times will be: 1071, 1204, and 1328 and will end in 1453, when Constantinople, the great capital and city, fallen to the Ottoman Turks.

Those who might be interested, leave a message or PM me or King Henry V. We need especially a modeller and a graphics expert to help us create the campaign map and also the new units.

New stuff will be added, as I said. Many new factions, new historical Byzantine Units, some new buildings, new trade goods and possibly, improved AI and diplomacy.

The Factions
----------------
The Byzantines
Despotate of Epirus
Despotate of Moreea
Empire of Niceea
Empire of Trebizond
Norman Kingdom of Sicily
Venetians
Papacy
Mongols
Ottoman Empire
Seljuk Turks
Sultanate of Rum
Kingdom of Armenia
Khazar Khaganate
Pecheneg Tribes
Bulgars
Avars
Cumans
Wallachians
Moldavians
Hungary

Progress of the mod
----------------------

Historical research: about 30%
Campaign map: 15%
Units: 0% ( made the graphics only for Skutatos and Kilibanohphoroi)
New factions: 0%(we've decided on the factions, BTW)
Testing: 0%

Starting date: 1071(after the battle of Manzikert)

Members
-----------
Edyzmedieval - Project and team leader, campaign map maker, unit maker, historical research
King Henry V - Historical research, New Buildings
Kataphraktos - Military researcher
Dirk - Battle Maps

Cheers! ~:cheers:
Edyzmedieval and King Henry V

King Henry V

06-26-2005, 10:34

I have a found a a map for the period, which would encorporate much of the Eastern Roman Empire and its neighbours.
http://www.emta.org.au/img/Eastern_Med_Map.jpg

King Henry V

06-26-2005, 15:32

Hopeful factions would include: the ERE, Seljuk Turks, Sultanate of Rum, Sultanate of Ikonion, Hungarians, Norman Kingdom of Sicily, Venice, Genoa, Fatamid Egyptians, Outremer (could be united or several states), the Papacy, Mongols, Ottomans, the Arab emirates, the Latin Empire, the Despotate of Epirus, the Empire of Nicaea and the Empire of Trebizond.

CountMRVHS

06-26-2005, 17:58

Sounds like a great idea, guys!

Might I suggest that you could start even earlier than 1087... an argument could be made for including the time period of Basil II Bulgaroctonus "The Bulgar-Slayer" who I believe ruled from 1025. Don't have my books in front of me though.

A great resource is John Julius Norwich (you may have already heard of him); he has a 3-volume set on Byzantium: the Early Centuries, the Apogee, and the Decline and Fall. These 3 books are also smooshed together into his Short History, but it's probably better reading and more info to get the 3 big ones at the library or something.

I don't know what I could offer for help, as I don't know how to do any graphical changes with campaign map or units. But I hope you get it worked out, and let me know if you need anything!

It also occurs to me that the map you're using is pretty much exactly the area we are considering for the Crusader States mod. If our map gets done first, or vice versa, we might be able to do some sharing to make things go faster! Then again, some features might be different for the different periods. Just a thought.

CountMRVHS

edyzmedieval

06-26-2005, 20:03

Thanks for the help Count...

It's gonna be a great mod, hopefully somebody will download it since MTW has less and less players....Especially with the expansion for RTW goin in August...

edyzmedieval

06-26-2005, 20:06

BTW,

we start in 1089 because it's the start of the great Comneni dynasty, starting with the great Alexius I Comnen.

King Henry V

06-26-2005, 20:09

The Empire's situation was pretty strong before the deafeat at Manzikert and any half-decent player would win fairly easily. Then again an added factor to make the game harder and more historically accurate would be low loyalty generals, thus civil war would always lurk in the background.

CountMRVHS

06-26-2005, 20:48

Gotcha. :bow:

Is it possible to mod generals' loyalty? I'd be interested in figuring out how you could do that. One thing I've thought about doing in order to make a more "rebellious" and realistic game is to not allow watchtowers or border forts to be built by any faction. Spies and assassins would have a greater role, and although you'd be able to "see" provinces right next to you, you wouldn't know what the army consisted of unless you had an agent of some kind in the province.

Then again, border forts are nice. Something to think about.

edyzmedieval

06-26-2005, 20:58

Hopefully, I'm gonna find out to mod the loyalty because loyalty was an important thing in the Byzantine empire....

King Henry V

06-27-2005, 11:36

Count, when would you be ready to start with the mod? I'm leaving tomorrow on holiday I won't be available till August.

cegorach

06-27-2005, 13:03

Hopefully, I'm gonna find out to mod the loyalty because loyalty was an important thing in the Byzantine empire....

You can use titles with NEGATIVE bonus to loyalty - it is simple and efficient solution. The same way it is possible to affect piety and other stats ~;)

CountMRVHS

06-27-2005, 13:04

Until a map is completed there's not much I can help with I'm afraid. I can make new factions, mess with the startpos files, and create units based on preexisting units using Gnome editor.

I may offer some help in figuring out provinces and the like, but it sounds like you guys have that stuff pretty much figured out already.

However, my summer vacation started last week and my wife works through summer, so.... you could say I have lots of free time ~D . If there's anything I can do with any of the above-mentioned areas, let me know.

CountMRVHS

edyzmedieval

06-27-2005, 14:29

Well Count...Here are the parts me and King Henry V are assigned to:

Edyzmedieval - New units, unit animations, modifying AI
King Henry V - New factions, new buildings
Graphics expert - Campaign map and help with new units

As for the historical info, there's no need to, because we both know very much Byzantine history ~D (I've got about 10-15 Byzantine books at home and atmy grandparents ~D ). Also, we both know to mess up with the startpos.... We'll contact you when we need help,ok?!

Cheers! ~:cheers:

P.S: You didn't answer me if you want help with the Crusader States mod... Do you need?!

CountMRVHS

06-27-2005, 16:27

As you may be able to tell, the Crusader States mod is somewhat stuck at the moment. I haven't heard from Minister of Fear for a while.

The situation is, we have a campaign map modder who is willing to make the map for our mod. However, he needs some materials sent to him. When I told him I'd appreciate his help, he sent me the following, which told us what he needed:

"Ok, i need the map you want as background. It must be exactly 2048x1536 or the biggest you can; send it in .jpg format, in the higher quality available (it should be about 2 Mb or similar). Work on it if you want or i can do it.. i mean about sepia-toning or similar things like ancient-looking, etc. If you want, i'd like to do this as it is quite interesting to work out by PsP or Photoshop. Then i only need a rough map with the borders of the states (remember to put on it also the borders of the sea areas). Add on this map some points too to indicate where you want ports for the states near the sea and other points to indicate the position of the castles for every region. Add also the island links (like between Wessex and Flanders or Naples and Sicily in MTW). This should be enough. "

The problem now is that we don't have a map to send it to him -- either a background map or one showing the borders, etc. I worked on the provinces of the northern half of our map, and Minister Of Fear was going to do the provinces in the southern half.

However, what about this. If you guys could make up a map, the kind of map that you want to use for your mod, then put up a screenshot or something so I can see if it would work for ours as well. I think the chances are it would work, as we're dealing with the same general area. Then, if you can come up with the stuff mentioned above, we could send it along to Fader_It (the guy who is going to work on our map), and he could make up the map, and give you a copy and give us a copy. Kills two birds with one stone, as they say. It would help both of us get our mods going quicker.

What do you think?

CountMRVHS

Russ Mitchell

06-27-2005, 16:32

Gents, there's a problem with that map...

It's modern. Won't do for the vast majority of what you need it to.
For example, modern Croatia is much larger than medieval Croatia was...

I'd like to learn how to do maps and units (I can do startpos in my sleep now). Gnome editor is one thing, but unit graphics is something else. If somebody were willing to coach me, I could help you with a map, since i have the background, and it's a good exercise for my own stuff.

edyzmedieval

06-27-2005, 17:43

Great idea Count... I like it... ~:)

There is a list of problems that appear. King Henry V is leaving tommorrow so only me would modify the game.... If you want, you can join our team and I will think on what part I shall assign you.... There's much much work to be done, especially since King Henry V is leaving, because he was doing the new factions and new buildings... If he's leaving and returning in August, I want you to help me do the new factions....

I am looking for a map, will be delivered soon.... It's gonna be a typical map, found on the net or in the books... I have found one but it's quite small.... Hopefully I'm gonna find a new and bigger and better map....

Cheers! ~:cheers:

King Henry V

06-27-2005, 17:46

King Henry V

06-27-2005, 17:51

Here's a map for the historical situation of the Empire as of 1204 and the capture and sack of Constantinople by "crusaders".
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Byzantium1204.png

CountMRVHS

06-27-2005, 17:52

Yes; I can probably help with the factions. I could help adding new factions or maybe even contributing ideas about factions (which ones to include, where they should be, etc.), depending on how far along you are already. Let me know what you'd like me to do and I'll see if it can get done.

One question: I assume this mod will be for the VI expansion, right?

King Henry V

06-27-2005, 18:00

Yes it will be for VI.

King Henry V

06-27-2005, 18:25

Map of Europe 1087
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/First.Crusade.Map.jpg

CountMRVHS

06-28-2005, 18:42

Hey guys,

It looks like by the end of this week we may have our Crusader States map all sorted out, ready to send to Fader_It. If you want, it may be a map you can use for your mod as well, in the way we had talked about earlier. Minister Of Fear just gave us a time frame for getting his half of the map finished. I'll let you know when things are wrapping up so we can share information and hopefully keep both projects going!

CountMRVHS

King Henry V

06-29-2005, 14:10

Hi guys! Just dropping in to say hello and see how the mods doing.

Krusader

06-30-2005, 00:22

So...how are you going to represent the many mercenaries in the Byzantine armies?

How is the pronoiai system going to be included?

In 1204, will the Despotate of Epirus, Empire of Nicaea and Empire of Trebizond be playable factions?

PS: I've written a 30-page thesis on the Fourth Crusade and have read Geoffrey de Villehardouin & Robert de Claris texts about it many, many times, and excerpts from Nicetas Choniates. If you need any help with the Fourth Crusade and Latin Empire, just tell me.

King Henry V

07-01-2005, 10:16

I think all of the factions will be playable. Thanks for the offer, Krusader.

King Henry V

07-03-2005, 09:40

So...how are you going to represent the many mercenaries in the Byzantine armies?

How is the pronoiai system going to be included?

I'm not surehow the pronoiai system will be done. What we might do is make mercenaries actually cheaper than recruiting normal soldiers. However, instead of building a tavern, where the recruiting roster can vary at times, perhaps they'll be a building which with other structures, alows you to recruit mercenaries all the time (the mercenaries being the Varangian Guard, Frankish mercenaries, stepped horse archers, norman mercenaries etc)

CountMRVHS

07-03-2005, 15:02

Yes, that's a good idea. The only thing different about these "mercenaries" would be their constant availability. And their build times. What about putting the build time for these troops down to zero, so you can recruit many of them quickly, like regular mercs?

As I understand it, the Pronoiai system was basically military service in exchange for land, right? So maybe certain troops can be attached to farming upgrades. A 20% farm upgrade can "train" a certain kind of troops, a 40% upgrade gets you a different kind, etc etc.

edyzmedieval

07-03-2005, 15:26

You are right Count. The Pronoiai( actually Proniai) system was the feudal system, the only difference was the name.

About the mercenaries, we will think of that. Historically, mercenaries were experienced and powerful soldiers who were disbanded from the armies. So, they were available immediately.

Also, question: Do you want to make the new factions?!

edyzmedieval

07-04-2005, 11:23

We are in great need of a graphics expert to make our campaign map....
Those who know very well, please leave a message......

Russ Mitchell

07-04-2005, 18:40

Unfortunately, I am not that man.
I am, however, in possession of some really GOOD maps of the balkans and adjoining territries, that would allow much richer gameplay in the European sphere, if anybody's interested. I'd have to sketch the territories, of course, but it would definitely be a more sophisticated map than the above... would include

a) Hungary (Sajo river battle, the Byz spanked the Magyars bad)
b) Oltenia and Muntenia (eventually became Wallachia)
c) Serbia and Bosnia, including Rascia, and the city-Republic of Dubrovnik)
d) Hungarian banates (Usora, Soli, Macva, Branicevo, Kucevo, Severin) (Croatia is a sort of non-issue for the Byzantines unless you drop way earlier in history)
e) Bulgaria and the Pricipality of Vidin and Dobrudja
f) "European" Byzantium Proper (Epeiros, Macedonia, Thessaly, Aitolia, Peloponnesos, Thessalonike, Western Thrace, Eastern Thrace, Constantinople)
g) Areas that could be put in w/o too much effort (Euboia, Boiotia, Attike)

That's potentially 28 territories to march back and forth through, more than that if the map is large enough to make specific strategic places like Ohrid their own territories.

edyzmedieval

07-05-2005, 08:36

Good idea....

When do you think you can deliver me this map?!

CountMRVHS

07-05-2005, 14:06

I would like to work on the factions, but I don't want to get too involved in it until the campaign map is done. The way I see it, getting a campaign map is the first big hurdle to get over before the "fun" work can begin.

For the next few days I'll be piecing together our Crusader map and sending the results to Fader so he can make it a workable map. It sounds like the map we are using will probably not have enough of what you want -- our Balkan area will be more simplified, I think, than you will want. However, when it gets done I'll get you a screenshot or something so you can decide for yourself.

I've thought about trying to learn how to make campaign maps myself, but it seems like the guide in the Alchemist Lab is incomplete. Does anyone know where there is some sort of tutorial for that? If I could make maps myself it would make things a lot easier; then we wouldn't need to go hunting for someone to do the work!

Russ Mitchell

07-05-2005, 15:35

All I need to do is find my copy of the main map, mark it up, scan it, and then email it to you (or upload directly, if this forum allows it). Potentially this evening.

edyzmedieval

07-05-2005, 18:48

Wow....Thanks Russ and Count for the help....

My e-mail adress is edyhiphop@yahoo.com......

SicilianVespers

07-05-2005, 18:54

The approach you are taking with mercenaries sounds excellent.

You should consider creating a "Feudal Estates" type building called "Pronoia Estates", or something to that effect, to create the Pronoiar units.

edyzmedieval

07-05-2005, 19:10

Sounds good.....

Editing the buildings to create new ones is one of the most important things..... Also, well have to make new Palaces as well for Constantinople... The Blacharnae, Phorphygenitus(sp?), Andronicus....

We'll have to take care of new units..... For the moment I thought of:

Skutatos - Byzantine Spearmen
Kilibanophoroi - The best cavalry, royals used them, heavily armored
Early Varangian Guard - To unlock them(it's easy)
Horsemen- Medium Cavalry( they had many of them, easy to modify)

We'll have to dig more.... Have to order some Osprey books... Excellent source of information.....

Russ Mitchell

07-06-2005, 02:16

The basic map is done: Edyz, check your email. Unfortunately, I don't know how to upload a file...

(this is a PAIN w/o the original map showing any of the relevant rivers... how can you represent the tactical nightmare of the Balkans w/o mountains and rivers? ARgghhhhhhhhh)

edyzmedieval

07-06-2005, 08:08

Thanks for the Map, Russ....

It's good as a starting point for the European part of Byzantium....

We have many provinces in sight, so this map is a good(very good, actually) addition, because it already has the provinces marked..... But we'll have to do some changes......

Russ Mitchell

07-06-2005, 14:41

Hey, it's your mod... I just thought I'd help out some.

edyzmedieval

07-12-2005, 13:46

Progress....

Just got the IrfanView and Ultimate Paint.... Very useful tools which I can do nothing without them....

The IrfanView is great.... I just viewed the MapTex TGA map... Without anything on it, it's awesome... I'm gonna use for my geography classes ~D

With UltimatePaint, I just created 3 new units: Order Crossbowmen, Teutonic Crossbowmen and Templar Foot Knights as units for the Crusader States.....

Eternal Champion

07-12-2005, 14:06

Sounds like your on your way, keep us posted.

NormanPain

07-14-2005, 09:28

From what I have read most Skutatoi were actually pikemen, though some were not, is it possible that the mod could have both? Pikes seem to have been more prevalent in the earlier middle ages and spears during the later years. The pikemen should be armed with a oval shied and 13 ft pike while the spearmen with 7-9 foot spear with triangular shield. Strangely the Byzantines seemed to have gone opposite of the rest of europe, where many armies were realizing the usefullness of pikes the byzantines starting using spears and almost no armour, by 1453 their army was almost exclusively mercinaries and their own troops were no differently armed or dressed then the turks as can be seen in paintings, drawings and engravings...as well as coins.

Will Patzinaks(Pechenegs as they are sometimes known) be in the mod?

~:cheers: ~D

Iustinus

07-14-2005, 13:34

I don't know if anyone has seen it, but the small mod (I believe based on the XL mod) called the Millenium mod had an excellent Byzantine unit list.
You should check it out, although it didn't have many new weapon/shield/unit graphics it had all the names, reviewpanel pics and stuff.
Justin

Iustinus

07-14-2005, 13:40

As for the Crusader mod, I have a good Byzantine music pack that can go along with this.
I also have an idea for language (although that would be a little too far.....)
If anyone can speak Byzantine Greek, it would be great to use that for the Orthodox factions, as the Russian is kinda strange.....
For Catholic factions, I myself could record Lombard commands (which is a very medieval latin language- it sounds like a cross between Catalan, Provencal and Italian) unless someone has a better idea- since pagan factions use the language given to Catholic factions if there are more steppe groups then crusader factions we can put in a Turkish language instead.
Last of all, I think the Arabic is fine for Muslim factions, unless there are more Turkish factions then Arab.
Just an idea, I know it would be difficult to find people to do this but it would truly make this an amazing mod.
Justin

edyzmedieval

07-14-2005, 21:24

Of course, the Pechenegs will be included....(they were my ancestors ~D )

Indeed, the Skutatos were the Byzantine Spearmen... We are going to add them, and unfortunately, the Byzantines didn't have any armoured spearmen....

I am going to post a cropped map of the area we are focusing on.... It's from Greece and Wallachia, Moldavia, Kiev, Crimeea, Khazar to Georgia to Egypt..... We are going to add more provinces.....

NormanPain

07-15-2005, 01:44

I believe Byzantine spearmen had armour as late as the 1300's but I may be mistaken, I am going to go read my sources again, maybe scan some images I have and post those too. ~:cheers:

Russ Mitchell

07-15-2005, 19:57

I can do the same for Hungarian -- though the modern language is a little different than the older.

Iustinus, would love to talk languages (medieval and Turtle Island) with you if you can drop me an email.

Iustinus

07-15-2005, 20:44

Wow,
I don't think many people even notice that that's a native North American language! (outside of a few linguists, students and natives I know from some messageboards....)
That's really cool.
I'm going to get a microphone and record orders in Lombard sometime soon anyway, just to add to mods to sound more medieval and less like modern british pronounced latin. So, when it's finished I'll post it somewhere and if anybody wants them let me know.
Now more on the subject of this mod, I have an idea for creating castle walls/towers that dump either naphtha grenades or use boiling oil. Does anyone know if this is possible? (I think it is)
There are alot of accounts from this time period of fire raining down from walls during sieges, particularly in Byzantine territory....
Justin

edyzmedieval

07-18-2005, 11:34

I thought I'd post the progress of the mod....

Progress
----------

Historical info: about 30%
Campaign Map: 0%(lot of work on this)
Units: 0% ( I have made only the graphics to some units: Skutatos, Kilibanohporoi)
New factions: 0%
Testing: 0%

I'm waiting for my Osprey book to arrive so I can progress to the units part....

NormanPain

07-18-2005, 16:22

Which osprey books are you getting, I have the two on Byzantine armies if you need any information on units before they arrive. ~:cheers:

edyzmedieval

07-18-2005, 18:58

I'm getting Byzantine Armies 1168-1461
I really need the info so I can start making the units, only Skutatos and Kilibanohporoi until now....

Hopefully tommorrow is gonna arrive.... ~:cheers:

Thanks for the help,BTW....

NormanPain

07-20-2005, 16:48

Not to be a pain or anything, but Skutatos is singular while Skutatoi is the Plural. Wierd I know, but its greek so...doesnt follow english rules ~;) ~:cheers:

edyzmedieval

07-21-2005, 10:16

I know very well ~D

We have to follow the Greek names, because it's all about Byzantium, and the Byzantines fully elenised(sp?!) in the 8th century.....

King Henry V

07-23-2005, 11:05

I have had a new idea for the mod.
As some of you know, in some mods there is the Homelands mode, where you can only recruit units in your starting provinces or Homelands. To add a more realistic twist to it, I thought about doing this in the mod. Most of you know that in the Byzantine Empire the theme system existed to recruit soldiers, and that the catastrophic consequence of thew Batle of Manzikert was the loss of large sections of theme land.´There fore the player will perhaps want to conquer the lost lands ASAP.

Advo-san

07-26-2005, 11:09

I know very well ~D

We have to follow the Greek names, because it's all about Byzantium, and the Byzantines fully elenised(sp?!) in the 8th century.....

This might sound a bit non-relevant to the subject of this thread, but the ERE has been hellenized since its foundation by emperor constantine. Mostly because the eastern part of the Roman Empire has always been pretty much "greek", because of Alexander's and his Diadohoi work of hellenization of their domains.
In the ERE, most of the nobility were greek families and the largest of the Empire's national groups was also greeks.

@edyzmedieval:Why do you consider the 8th century as a landmark of the hellenization of the ERE?

P.S. Great work you are up to guyz, I wish I could help, though I don't have a clue bout moddin... :embarassed:

edyzmedieval

07-26-2005, 11:58

@edyzmedieval:Why do you consider the 8th century as a landmark of the hellenization of the ERE?

P.S. Great work you are up to guyz, I wish I could help, though I don't have a clue bout moddin... :embarassed:

Because, in the 8th century, latin was no longer used in the administration. Greek became the official language.

Thanks! ~:cheers:

Advo-san

07-26-2005, 12:56

Because, in the 8th century, latin was no longer used in the administration. Greek became the official language.

Thanks! ~:cheers:
This is exactly proof that the hellenization of the ERE occured even earlier.. Such a major change, like the language of the administration, couldn't have been decided overnight. And more, if my memory is not failing me, Iustinian legislation (Nouvellae-Neares) was written in both greek and roman. But I m not 100% about this.

PS: You may want to correct your title, shouldn't it say "Basileas"? Cause "basileos" in greek means "of the king" or "the king's".

When do you think the mod is going to come out? Anyway I could help? I mod not, but I could check a book or two for generals names, locations,battles, geography, anything you could use.

Advo-san

07-26-2005, 13:00

Or do yo umean Bazil, the name? In that case Basileos is just fine ~;)

edyzmedieval

07-26-2005, 13:06

Thanks for your offer, Advo-San!!!!

We could use a detailed map of the Balkans, Asia Minor and Armenia(including Tripoli, Edessa, Georgia). As for history, I know very well. The Byzantines are my favourite and I know very very much about them. Also, if you could find info about Byzantine soldier types, it would be great!!!

P.S.: Take a look at my Fall of Constantinople story. You might like it.

edyzmedieval

07-26-2005, 13:09

Never new that...

I use Basileos because even in specialised books I have found this term. I have found also, Basileas, as a second term.

edyzmedieval

07-28-2005, 14:30

Progress update...

I just started moving something with the IrfanView, have to learn a bit more so I can make the map. Looks like nobody is willing to do it.....

I am still waiting for my Osprey books to arrive, we're really stalling without the Byzantine Armies. King Henry is away, and I'll be away in 1 week or earlier, so the mod is gonna stall, unless people start to join!!!!

So, I want to ask those who are viewing this thread, if they want to join.
Those who want, just yell: "I want to join".

And also, those who want, say with what materials you can help us, like if you're good at history, you can help us on research, or if you're good at modding, you can help us on modifying.

We really need a map maker.

Eddy :bow:

Russ Mitchell

07-28-2005, 17:25

I'm no expert on the Byzantine military system.
Do a Google on the New Varangian Guard, and ask for pointers. Drop my name if need be.

edyzmedieval

07-28-2005, 21:26

We already know the Varangian Guards, Skutatoi and Klibanophoroi.
We need new units, that's what I'm looking for. I found one, Dismounted Kataphraktoi, as heavy as the Varangians.

edyzmedieval

07-30-2005, 11:17

Update!

Well guyz, I have made the map.It's only a primitive map, without the borders. It is only HiRes, so it's very big. I'm currently learning how to use the LMM, so I can draw the borders, make new provinces and put the castles were they belong.

Since I am the only one who is making it, and King Henry V is away, I officially start the recruiting. Those who want, give a yell. I will send PM's to those who I think can help us, like Russ and Fader_It.

Thanks. :bow:

Aenlic

07-31-2005, 23:44

Hey, Edyzmedieval, you do know about the below site, yes? It's filled with historical information with family trees (great for heroes and king/princess surnames and forenames), maps and charts all the way up to 1453.

http://www.friesian.com/romania.htm

edyzmedieval

08-01-2005, 08:41

Thanks for that... :bow:

I already know about it and it's been a real help, an excellent source. ~:)

torguskhan

08-01-2005, 17:28

you should start at an earlier date so it doesn't have to be too much like MTW. Maybe start when the west empire fell and end with the battle of manzikert because that was the begining of the end for the Byzantines. They were never that great again.
civ ideas:
avars and pechneg: they troubled the Byzantines northern borders for a long time
cumans: allied w/the Byzantines to crush the pechegs
ps. I don't think the mongols had very much to do w/Byzantium at all

edyzmedieval

08-01-2005, 17:42

We know very well, torgushkan. Don't get me wrong, comments are always welcome and appreciated....

We will start indeed in 1071. I have to edit the post....

The Mongols had contacts with the Byzantines in the late centuries, prior to the Fall of Constantinople.....

And these factions that you mentioned will be included, don't worry.

edyzmedieval

08-01-2005, 18:35

Barrocca,

I have a request. Can you make this post a sticky,please?!

We've grown enough.

beauchamp

08-01-2005, 23:24

this could be pretty awsome! just an idea, you guys could do the beggining of islam as well, make the Ummayad forces appear just like the mongols and attack the byzantines!

edyzmedieval

08-02-2005, 07:48

THANK YOU BAROCCA!!!!

Please applaud Barocca, for making this thread sticky and renaming it Byzantium Total War mod. Again, thank you very much. :bow:

Oh well, back to the mod.

I worked on the map last night, so we can include upper parts of Hungary.
Venice and Papacy will not be included. Venice will be included, but I need your vote, because I only "captured" a small part of Venice. The Sicilians will be, BTW, with Sicily and Malta. Now I am currently working with th LMM, so I can draw the borders. It's much easier with LMM, because it creates a basic script for me, leaving me free to concentrate on other parts.

I also thought about the units, and this is only a small part of the unit list for the Byzantines(exclusive):

Klibanophori
Skutatoi
Funciar Boyars
Pecheneg Mercenary Cavalry
Kataphraktoi
Proniai(not Pronoiai) Allagion
Byzantine Infantry
Varangian Guard(early)
Varangian Guard(high)
Trebizond Archers
Alan Mercenary Cavalry
Armenian Heavy Cavalry

Many other unit types will follow, but I really need the Osprey books which I ordered, especially the Byzantine Armies.

Eddy :bow:

Dirk

08-02-2005, 10:52

Have you got room for a battle map maker ?
If so....let me know. I love creating these maps.

edyzmedieval

08-02-2005, 10:53

Battle Map Maker?!

NO!

You're officially in the team!!!!!! Finally we found someone.

We really needed a battle map maker.

Dirk

08-02-2005, 11:44

OK!!!!

As it's your party, just let me know whether you'd like battle maps of specific battles / locations or just a whole bunch (how many have you got in mind than?) of different maps (personal variations on the standard MTW maps).
Maps for specific battles / locations are a challenge in themselves as it's important to try and catch the true lay out of the place.
Personaly I find the maps created by our Austrian friend (Antalis ?) for HTW fabulous so I'll really have a true standard to live up to.

edyzmedieval

08-02-2005, 16:01

Well Dirk,

I want to ask yo if you could make the following battles: Manzikert 1071 and Siege of Constantinople 1453.

Thanks.

Dirk

08-03-2005, 07:34

Hello !
Manzikert and Constantinopel are fine. In order to avoid confusion: I can make the maps but not the actual battles themselves and I can't influence the way the opposing forces are placed on the maps. That's a part you have to figure out yourself.
Further: As the history of Byzantium has always fascinated me I'll do a follow up by creating additional maps of other Byzantinian battle sites. If you can use those: fine. If not...it's still fun to make them.

I'll let you know when Manzikert and Constantinopel are finished.

cegorach

08-03-2005, 10:47

If you give me the maps + enough info to make the battles + battle conditions (victory) you want + working units ( to make the tests) I can prepare the battles. I have good experience in doing them and I will prepare some battles for PMTW 2.0 for BKB and possibly for Samurai Barocca's mod so few more battles won't cause problems anyway. ~;)

edyzmedieval

08-03-2005, 12:08

Thanks for the offers Dirk and Cegorach.

We'll do it like this, so no one will get dissapointed. Cegorach will get Manzikert, and Dirk will get Constantinople.

And this is for Cegorach, would you like to join our team?!

cegorach

08-03-2005, 12:56

Thanks for the offer, but:

1. I am too busy with PMTW 2.0, PMTW2 and OiM TW, :book:
2. Have limited time to do the modding stuff,
3. Still like to play RTW and MTW + STW for pleasure,
4. and finally my knowledge of the subject of your mod is limited ( VERY limited),

I can still make the battles if I get all I mentioned above + add some suggestions, do some work you can't do ( if not too time-consuming).

Regards Cegorach ~;)

edyzmedieval

08-03-2005, 13:12

Too bad. Even VH and Fader(not really) and Zarax refused me.(no time, or other duties). ~:mecry:

No luck. Oh well, guess I'll have to do it myself, with help from King Henry V, Dirk and Russ Mitchell.

Eddy :bow:

NodachiSam

08-06-2005, 00:09

For the map: I have this great book called the world history atlas. It has a number of pages on the Byantine Empire that include province outlines and capitals. I would be happy to scan them up for you guys. :book:

I am interested in this mod a lot, I havn't really modded much, I once changed all the factions including the pope in early to be jewish but that is it but I would be happy to help somehow. Maybe with the map or event illustrations or something.

edyzmedieval

08-06-2005, 09:07

Thanks for the offer NodachiSam.

Upload the map so we can see it,please.

As for the map I made, I don't know if it can be posted. It is a .bmp and has 11MB!!!! And before I complete the map and the script, I need the LMM documentation. Anyone has it?!

NodachiSam

08-07-2005, 02:50

Okay I've put essentially all my hours of free time today into this!!!

First off I want to say I scanned these maps from the "Atlas of World History" Compiled and presumably edited by John Haywood, Ph.D. Honarary Teaching Fellow, Lancaster University. UK and Brian Catchpol, M.A. - Simon Hall, M.A. - and Edward Barratt, M.A. The book was published in 2001 by Barnes and Noble Books.

I highly reccomend this fantastic book and it hasn't been scanned for anyone's personal fiscal benefit. As well the scanned maps will not be incorporated into our final product but will be used for research purposes. Please don't sue me for copyright infringment. ~;)

With out of the way I want to say that it took a long time to find a proper ratio of information to memory size and the computer I used could fit nicely in a meseum somewhere.

Each of the maps show events over a long period of time but I labeled them after the date of shown Byzantinian territory. It does not mean the borderlines and events described happened in one year. I've painted a lot of less important, though pretty, areas white to save on memory space.

There is one more map I am willing to scan near the year 1480 where the ottomans have taken over most of Byzantium and the kingdom of Morea and Constantinople remain free, but only if you ask nicely ~D

I hope these will be useful for our purposes and I want to reccomend this book again. ~:cheers:

Year 888 CE
https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/888AD.jpg

Year 1095 CE
https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/1095EgyptandIndex.jpg

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/1095North.jpg

Year 1175 CE
https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/1174AD.jpg

Years 628 CE to 1204 CE
https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/628to1204index.jpg

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/628to1204western.jpg

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/628to1204centre.jpg

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/628to1204eastern.jpg
Oops, I made a mistake on this one painting unimportant space white to save memory.

Year 1204 CE
https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/1204index.jpg

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/1204NorthWest.jpg

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/1204SouthEast.jpg

Religion around year 1200
https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/indexforcirca1200andreligion.jpg

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/Byzatine%20Mod/circa1200andreligion.jpg

edyzmedieval

08-07-2005, 10:29

Holy crap!!!

Thanks very much!!!!! :eek:

Woooow....

NodachiSam

08-08-2005, 01:41

You're very welcome ~:cheers: I hope you can incorporate this into info into the map. Maybe you could load up a smaller jpeg version of the map.

beauchamp

08-08-2005, 02:33

If anyone needs my help regarding historical research, i work in a bookstore and am a well read amateur historian. Im currently helping people with India history and am trying to start my own mod that involves the 1400-1700's so it is obvious i would like to get more involved in the TW community. Drop me a message if anyone in this mod is in need of extra help!

-Beauchamp

NodachiSam

08-10-2005, 19:55

Thanks for the offer :)

edyzmedieval

08-12-2005, 21:10

To all of you guys who view this thread, I want to ask you if you agree that we should move this mod to RTW:BI.

So,
We have 4 options:

1.Only MTW
2. Both, but RTW:BI deserves more work
3. Both, but MTW deserves more work
4.Only RTW:BI

I'll let you choose. It's gonna be very important. To give your vote, check the poll in the Engineers Guild.

Pericles

08-13-2005, 00:54

My suggestion is to finish the mod for mtw.

Then later, after the BI expansion has arrived, been play-tested, and gets the usual patch, then do a mod for rtw.

Cheers!

edyzmedieval

08-13-2005, 21:39

Well guys, a bit of update.

Me and King Henry V have decided that we will do the mod for both games, and they deserve equal work, just like Cegorach does with his PMTW mod.

For the moment, I am going to a school camp. King Henry will be the only one for updates, so contact him or me, but I won't reply only after a week. He'll do the work for now. MTW Campaign map.

Thanks.

Radier

08-14-2005, 10:06

Well have fun edyz ~:cheers: I´m glad the mod is advancing...

edyzmedieval

08-14-2005, 12:57

Thanks Radier. ~:cheers:

We chose to make the mod also for BI because we have many more options of modding. I just checked some things that different mod teams (Zhanguo Mod, Chivarly Total War....) done to their mods, so that's why we chose to do it for BI. For now, me and King Henry are studying RTW Modding, so we can start early.

In BI we have many options, for example, to add more than 2 layers of walls, including the option to put soldiers on! We can make different settlement plans, so the cities won't have the same plan. I can't imagine Constantinople looking like some grown city from Bulgaria or Niceea!

Eddy :book:

kataphraktos

08-18-2005, 07:00

hi, fellow Byzantinists..Im here to assist with the mod. Invited by edyzmedieval, Im originally from the SCC forums, known there as tzentri. Im not sure what to exactly put here in terms of an 'introduction'.. but Im sure my posts about the Byzantine military and its way of thinking can provide some form of 'credentials'.. Anything else, just ask!

Thanks for the opportunity to be of help.
- tzentri

Lord Liendecker

08-19-2005, 01:41

Nice,
Bysantium total war is a great topic for a game. I havent read most of your thread but keep up the progress. Cant wait till I can defend the holy Land from a more detailed scale.
I wont be able to help you with the technical part very much, since im starting a pretty busy schedule in the fall, but id be glad if i could share with you some of my ideas for TW in general.
i have two suggestions:
1)making a sophisticated and more dramatic use of agents: zealots, missionaries, agents that can convert troops based on piety and religion rather than money, trade caravans across land. (i already have ideas if you're interested)
2) make patriarchs such as muslim, orthodox, jewish, and heretic popes (monophysites and Nestorians) that would insight crusades and build religious agents and also encourage peace within a religious culture, or encourage rebelions in parts of historic conflict. (heretics and jews would compete with Catholic and orthodox)

edyzmedieval

08-20-2005, 09:51

I'm back guyz!!!

Now, since I'm back, it's also back to work. King Henry received his Osprey book about the Byzantine Armies, and he'll start the work on the units.

I'm gonna do the script for the map ( damn, it's so much to do, I hate it!) and help King Henry on the units.

Eddy :book:

edyzmedieval

08-20-2005, 12:22

Tzentri,

Please provide some pics with the units and info.
Thanks. :book: :bow:

kataphraktos

08-21-2005, 03:59

do you want me to simply repost some of the pics from the other forum and info.. since most of the info there could be equally useful for this mod, ?

edyzmedieval

08-21-2005, 09:50

do you want me to simply repost some of the pics from the other forum and info.. since most of the info there could be equally useful for this mod, ?

Yeah. Good idea.

But if you can find more info, it's great.
Do you have any ideas for buildings, except for Theme Level 1,2,3,4 and Mercenary Recruitment Center?!

edyzmedieval

08-22-2005, 21:26

We need help.

Those who can help, please give us some info about the units of the Bulgars, Cumans, Armenians, Khazars....

Those who find, please post it here, or preferably at:

Byzantium Total War (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=52742)

william the bastard

08-23-2005, 21:35

Edyz

look some differents mods as BKB,VH,WES, and also and old one : Millenium, you will find some ideas fr your mod. At last on 8th mod even if it's not on your timeframe. (I say ideas,not copy and paste or ask before)
Don't remember his nick, but a native bulgarian member have made some info pics for bulgar units. Check old threads of the engineers guilds, you'd find one called "new units info pics" or something else. Maybe help you.
Anyway, good luck, don't fail, gonna sound rock!!

edyzmedieval

08-23-2005, 22:15

Thanks for the info.

We won't. Prepare for the BI mod.

william the bastard

08-24-2005, 18:20

Thanks for the info.

We won't. Prepare for the BI mod.

SAd :embarassed: I am waiting it for VI

edyzmedieval

08-25-2005, 08:32

Don't worry.

We'll work on the VI mod until BI appear. WHen BI appears, our main work will be directed to BI, but we won't forget about the VI mod either.

King of Atlantis

08-28-2005, 01:07

So the medieval mod is still going?, I *might* be able to help you guys with units...

edyzmedieval

08-31-2005, 12:17

Sorry guyz I didn't respond.

I was busy with the RTW mod which is going good.
As for the MTW mod, it's stagnating unfortunately. The lack of team members to distribute the work is hurting the development of the MTW mod.

I sent PM's everywhere, but it seems that nobody likes to join.

Those who know to mod, and are interested, send me a PM.

Thanks,
Edyzmedieval

hellas1

09-06-2005, 02:01

Hello All,

As an ethnic Greek(1st generation) & I lived there as well, I can share what I know about happened during the Byzantine Empire and Turkish occupation.

As a matter of fact, my grand father & mother were born in 1910/1911 respectively and my grandfather told me about a turkish rep. who got 10% of what each family in my grandfathers hamlet made!

My relatives have names that go back to Byzantium, such as:

Theoharis, Argyros, Patoulias ~:)
1st name: Gift of God
2nd: Silver craftsman
3rd: Walker or floormaker (Greek: Peripatima-To walk, Patoma-Floor)

and so forth.

My services are at your disposal EDYZMEDIEVAL!

Va Zisi H Ellas! Va Zisi H Poli! Long Live Greece! Long Live Constantinople!
Poli- GK.slang for Byzantium from some time ago

NodachiSam

09-06-2005, 04:47

That awsome, thanks for the offer.
I know Greece rebelled against the Ottoman empire through the 19th century. Do modern greeks associate with Byzantium as closely as they seem to associate with ancient pre-Rome greece? Did Greece ever try to take Constantinople when it was becomming independant?

Vladimir

09-07-2005, 13:24

Great work. I had a romanticized idea of the Eastern Roman Empire until I learned a little more about it and realized that the Turks won a well-deserved victory.

I have a question on battle maps:

1. Are you using topographical maps of common invasion routes?

It should be easy to find maps with current terrain features, elevation, etc of regions in the East. Are the battle maps going to be based on historical routes of invasion? All I can really add are suggestions as I haven't done much work making maps. Keep up the good work.

hellas1

09-09-2005, 03:18

Hi All,

Yes, the modern day Greeks are closely tied in their thought and most especially in their religion to Byzantium. Greek Orthodoxy with the Patriarchs and in music and "in" the people themselves. All is appreciated.

I also believe that at one point Constantinople was either conquered or given to the greeks! I believe that was the 19th century, IF I'm not mistaken.

Needless to say, Greeks today appreciate the Ancients, Byzantine Greeks and Revolutionary (Anti-Turk) Heroes such as: Kolokotronis, Papaflessas, Bouboulina and Andreas Mavrokordatos to name a few.

Turkish occupation sucked for Christians. For the first 200 years something called Devshirme, the taken of christian children between the ages of 8-10 or 12 and making them convert to Islam & speak only turkish & become turkish essentially and then they became the "elite" unit of the Ottoman turkish forces called the Janissaries-Turkish: Yeniceri, who fought their own people, took place.
I think THAT stopped after the first 200 years or in 1650 something, but Janissary recruitment continued until 1800 when the turkish sultan turned his cannons on them, in their quarters in Turkey, effectively stopping them literally "dead."

The turks were cruel, ruthless and a cold people.
I personally do NOT still trust them.
They committed a genocide against the Armenian people in the 1930's or 40's. It was a forced march which became in effect a "death march."
Over a million Armenians died because of the Kemal regime. Not Good.

Any More Questions Kids? Enjoy! ZHTO H ELLAS- May Hellas Live!

NodachiSam

09-09-2005, 06:45

Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to buy some nice big books focusing on Roman history and Byzantium (though I think it is kind of the same political tradition, though it evolved alot). Is greek still spoken much in Istanbul?

I know most if not all political large political units throughout history are mostly tyranical my modern standards (proclaimed standards anyhoo) but I must admit I have a romantic notion about Roman history.

Vladimir

09-09-2005, 13:45

Well it's sad to say but I would rather have been a Christian living in the Ottoman Empire than a Muslim living in (northern) Iberia. Now days we have professional sports to work out our rivalries with our neighbors and competitors. Weren't the majority of Janissaries recruited from impoverished formally Catholic controlled regions like Hungary? I think that's why they get a bonus if you make them in Bulgaria.

It sounds like it would be a good idea to program in a Portugal-like loyalty to certain Greek regions if they're conquered by the Turks.

edyzmedieval

09-10-2005, 09:05

Why don't you discuss on our forum please?!
http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?showforum=40

As for the MTW mod, Count MRVHS is going to help us. He's gonna do very much work on the mod.

edyzmedieval

09-17-2005, 07:12

Anyone else willing to help us?!

william the bastard

09-24-2005, 17:13

ready to help, but what are you needing? Since the beginning of this thread really wonder how i may help you??
It's too bad 'cause I truly wanna see the release of this mod!

edyzmedieval

09-24-2005, 21:21

It's good that we still have support. ~:)

Ok, gonna send the maps to Count soon.
William, what can you do?!

edyzmedieval

10-14-2005, 21:12

Here is an announcement.

King Henry V is now the leader of Byzantium TW for MTW:VI.
He will direct the mod.

From now on, I will only help, "from the shadow".

Hail the new leader ~:cheers:

Vladimir

10-17-2005, 13:40

Good to see a new post but should a "Brit" be running the mod? I think a "local" would do much better.

edyzmedieval

10-17-2005, 18:04

Yeah, I'm more "local" than King Henry ~D

But, a small announcement. ~:)

The MTW mod will be done after we release the RTW BI mod. We've started on the RTW mod, we'll have to finish that, because we've done much progress on that. ~:)

edyzmedieval

10-27-2005, 12:42

Guys, a small update. Had some free time, and I made 5 units. Made with Ultimate Paint. ~:)
They can't be seen very well. They are basically units from the battlemap and unit cards.

Cuman Mercenary Cavalry

https://img451.imageshack.us/img451/2974/cumanmercenarycavalry4ph.jpg

Hospitaller Foot Knights

https://img486.imageshack.us/img486/3205/hospitallerfootknights5mf.jpg

Order Crossbowmen

https://img474.imageshack.us/img474/1923/ordercrossbowmen4ra.jpg

Templar Foot Knights

https://img473.imageshack.us/img473/2263/templarfootknights2dn.jpg

Teutonic Crossbowmen

https://img469.imageshack.us/img469/318/teutoniccrossbowmen0ex.jpg

Hope you liked them. King Henry will resume the work when he comes back. ~:cheers:

edyzmedieval

10-27-2005, 13:03

Oh, and some more news.
Apart from the new units, I'll try to do some more work regarding the campaign map. Will try to post up a screenshot of the map soon. ~:cheers:

Those who want to join our small team, don't hesitate to give me a PM. ~:)

We are trying to develop the MTW mod also. ~:cheers:

playboytaxi

10-28-2005, 07:34

Hi
This is great idea. I made some units long time ago and i will try to find it on my comp. Look here: The horce archer is actualy Bulgarian Horse Archer.

http://members.aol.com/bogdanovaslava/Aaa.html

edyzmedieval

10-28-2005, 10:38

Hello Taxi.

Wanna join our team and help us on the units?! ~:cheers:

edyzmedieval

10-28-2005, 22:02

Good units. ~:cheers:

Wanna join our team?! ~:)

Paladin

11-18-2005, 16:45

Will you guys be addressing the biggest enemy of the Byzantines? Themselves? The constant imperial manuevering within the various factions and small civil wars wore down the untiy of this once great empire. I think if MTW would have put some focus on this issue, it wouldn't be so easy to conquer the world as the Byzantines. Religious problems like the Iconoclastic episode seriously sapped the power of the Empire. Treason and treachery of the type that led to the disaster of Manzikert really need to be included.

Thoughts?