Rtw...

[Silent Nellie]

Hey ORG.. I'd really like to hear what you guys have to say about this post http://clubsilence.12.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=656#656 Do you guys agree, disagree... do you support my decision? all and any comments will be appreciated. THX!

[Wishazu]

NihilisticCow from my clan has just tried this mod out today, perhaps it`ll catch on and be used in tourney`s.

[Puzz3D]

I agree, and these things you mention are basically the reasons I stopped playing RTW MP, and why I'm not about to rush out and buy BI when it's released.


#1. units attack when you don't tell them to.

This has always been a feature of the series, and I think it's ok as long as only a few unit types known to be undisciplined do it.


#2. Units don't listen to your commands right away.

The delay in the response to orders is excessive with the fast speed at which units run. As it is now, it gives too much advantage to the player who moves first. It's as though the game was originally balanced with a slower movement speed, and then, sometime late in the game's development, the running speeds were increased. The delay is now a very large percentage of the time you have to respond to an opponent's offensive move. A balanced game gives about equal chances to offensive and defensive moves. This provides a basis for a greater variety in viable playing styles.


#3. cav are overpowered and spam(reminds me of our 2v2 cwb vs wolves) hehe well played wolves.

This reduces the tactical gameplay because armies don't have counterarmies except for the same army type. The imbalance is so pronunced that it's almost like the game only has a single unit with which to play. Since RTW is the 3rd go around for Total War and players in the forums have gone over unit balancing with CA for 5 years, I don't see any valid excuse for this lack of balance in RTW.


#4. Infantry are way too weak and have no chance against cav spaming.

The spear should be able to defeat a cav unit costing twice as much without any trouble. I would even say it should beat a cav unit that costs 3x as much. Can't do it in RTW.


#5. Units move too fast... it's impossible to make a move without having enemy units in your face from across the field within seconds.

Objective measurements confirm that running speed was increased by 50% over what it was in the previous two games, STW and MTW. Even if those previous games had slow speeds due to the very small maps used in STW, a 25% increase would have been plenty. The skating effect of infantry when running shows that the speeds were increased, and it looks redicuous and extemely unrealistic in a game that's supposed to at least reflect realism.


#6. Units die way too fast...

The fact that the fatigue rate was increased by 50% in the RTW v1.2 patch suggests that the fighting speeds are too fast. Instead of doing that, the time to resolve combat should have been increased.


#7. Here is another one "DESERT CAVALRY". No excuse for the large size of this unit except that it might be necessary for balance in the single player campaign. It has no business being oversized in multiplayer because MP doesn't have the same balancing mechanism of the tech tree and support costs that exists in SP, and Egypt isn't a weak faction in MP. If anything it's the strongest faction and is banned outright from many MP games. This shows an insensitivity on the part of Creative Assembly to unit balance for multiplayer. So, desert cav is just an example of other unit imbalances in RTW MP that have little chance of being corrected by CA.


#8. One other thing is MORALE. There are no generals with command stars in multiplayer. Giving the units in MP the base morale they get in SP is too low. The Modred mod gives all units +4 morale, and it plays quite well like that without upgrades. In STW, you bought units at honor 2. Guess how much morale that gives a unit? You guessed it; +4 morale.


The Modred mod looks very promising, and as far as I can see gets about all the tactical gameplay potential you can get out of RTW MP given the current limitations of the battle engine. It coexists with the regular install, and it doesn't make drastic changes in the game so players can still use a good part of what they have learned in playing vanilla RTW.

[Mongoose]

The only real problems with RTW (most of the above can be fixed by mods~D ) are the following


1:Battle maps are absurdly small.

2:battle maps are absurdly flat and boring.

3:charge bonus does not work.

[Puzz3D]

They are real problems, and it's up to Creative Assembly to address them not modders because most players won't use mods. I just went through making a mod for MTW that provides excellent gameplay, but it was a massive waste of time in terms of how many games got played with it.


4. Men squeezed too tight should get a combat penalty.

That's been a feature of the series since the beginning. What happened to it in RTW? Was somebody out sick the day that feature was supposed to be put in the game?

[Mongoose]

True. most people('RTS kiddie crowd') think that vanilla RTW is perfectly balanced and an improvement over the other TW games. :dizzy2:


Anyway, is anyone still playing samurai wars? or have most of the "vets" left TW?

[Puzz3D]

Anyway, is anyone still playing samurai wars? or have most of the "vets" left TW?
It's a question of putting in the time to promote it, and build up as large a group as possible who is using it. It's very difficult to build up the necessary critical mass of players so that people don't spend hours waiting around for a game. You also have the situation that regular MTW/VI MP isn't as bad as RTW MP, so there aren't as many MTW/VI players who feel a mod is necessary. I didn't start working on Samurai Wars until I saw the state of RTW MP gameplay during the v1.2 beta when I could actually play the game without it going out of sync, and because barocca asked me to balance the stat along the lines of original STW for his STWmod for MTW/VI. At the same time, I knew that as soon as v1.2 was released it would kill Samurai Wars MP, and that's what did happen since most of the players using SW online went to RTW at that time. There are people still playing STW/MI, and I thought Samurai wars might be attractive to them and to the players who likes original STW since they have no official server anymore, although, they do have fakeserver. I think it is to some of them, but the STW/MI players are used to the gameplay in that, and it isn't at all like the gameplay of original STW.

Tomi was nice to make a CWC event using Samurai Wars, but I made a mistake in thinking that the original STW maps would provide sufficient enjoyment since they were all small maps. However, the red zone was wider and completely inaccessible unlike in STW as pointed out by OrdaKhan and he was right. It became clear too late that we needed to be using larger maps. Also, the STW/MTW engine has been in use for 4 years. Many players are burned out on it and want to try something new. I myself have gotten into SH3 and recently Combat Mission just for a change.

When BI is released it will fragment whatever group is using Mordred's mod. Also, other mods such as ChivTW and EB will be pulling players to themselves. I think all these mods will just have nitch groups within the Total war community. What the majority need is gameplay in the vanilla version which approaches the potential of the engine. If that happens, players who left will start coming back.

[tibilicus]

Does any one else get the problem that i call twisted army? It's when you tell your army to go some where but they go there at a diferent angle. Be it on its side tilted or sometime back to front. This realy does my head in! It recks your formation and theres no reson i can find for it. Really annoying. And i agrre. I am too getting annoyed with vanilla.......

[NihilisticCow]

Does any one else get the problem that i call twisted army? It's when you tell your army to go some where but they go there at a diferent angle. Be it on its side tilted or sometime back to front.

No never... though I always drag-right click to set where I want to move to and the orientation.

[Puzz3D]

Does any one else get the problem that i call twisted army? It's when you tell your army to go some where but they go there at a diferent angle. Be it on its side tilted or sometime back to front. This realy does my head in! It recks your formation and theres no reson i can find for it. Really annoying. And i agrre. I am too getting annoyed with vanilla.......
I get that twisted group quite often when using ALT + click to move. I think it usually happens when I'm issuing movement orders quickly, and maybe I'm not pressing ALT soon enough before I click. I always check where the unit will end up with the space bar, and, when I see the destination is twisted, I redraw the group where I want it to end up with click and drag. Occasionally, I've seen the twisted destination arrows correct themselves without me doing anything, but I've only seen that happen very soon after giving the original movement order.

[tibilicus]

Hmmmmm it could just be me. I will try to find the sorse of the the poblem and report back.

[Cheetah]

Always use drag+drop, and hit "R" if you want to make your soldiers run to the new location. Never use ALT+click (to move), as far as I can tell it is all messed up.