Zen Blade
09-07-2001, 09:30
Hey guys,
First off,
I want to thank hecose for the making a very friendly program.
Second,
I think campaign editing and an editor to work with is VERY important and I hope others can help bring about a fan-based editing system that incorporates and allows as many changes as possible.
Alright,
so now to what I have found....
I made a campaign based on the 1550 campaign and edited it according to a rough estimate of the politics of 1565.
My first difficulty was with Daimyo/heir/generals (ronin and player)... this involved both ranks, positioning and selecting the unit they controlled.
-I didn't care too much about the unit they controlled, but I did get upset that all the "unique" leaders were in the same territory and I couldn't control their rankings.
-I also got upset that I couldn't control which ronin got taishos with a rank and which were not.
-The main problem though was that I got COMPLETELY random daimyos... And I didn't know why for a while.
-As Hecose was posting and saying his thoughts on the matter, I was looking through the txt files in the "startpos" folder... and decided that after making a campaign I needed to insert a number of lines based upon what I saw in the pre-made campaign txt. Thus, I added the exact copy of the "daimyo starting" lines straight into my txt and restarted the map...
--this worked better and on the "alliance" page all the names were correct BUT they were not the ones I wanted....
-So, using the list hecose constructed (I didn't remember exactly who was where, but had an idea) I messed around with the numbers and got the daimyos I WANTED to show up on the "alliance" screen... HOWEVER, they were not on the actual campaign map...
Instead, Takeda Shingen was "the daimyo" for not only his clan, but also for the Mori and Hojo clans. (although he didn't get the horse icon).
-I messed around with this for a while trying to figure out why, and I still don't know for sure, BUT by changing a daimyo's starting position on the map... the bug becomes worse, better, or stays the same...
For example: The Hojo daimyo started in Sagami but was "takeda Shingen" and remained so when I moved the REAL Takeda Shingen to either Shinano or Suruga (the real having been in Kai). HOWEVER, when I moved Takeda to Suruga (I think) Takeda Shingen became "Uesugi Kenshin" while Mori and Hojo were still "shingen" and Uesugi remained himself...
THEN, seeing these results, I moved Hojo to Musashi and MAGICALLY he became himself (horse and all)... Seeing this, I then tried the same with Mori and on the first move (to Izumo I think) he became himself.
This appeared to solve ALL related problems... I don't understand it though.
BUT, when I next loaded as Hojo, the heirs were ok on the campaign map, BUT on the "heir sheet" they had the Takeda heir names (their correct Hojo ages though). However, when I restarted the game, the heir sheet was correct... so, not sure about this problem.
-The next problem I wanted to solve was the "unique general" problem of being stacked. This one is actually quite simple... The computer, when starting the game appears to just place them in their "order".--not sure where this is exactly, but the computer has it set somewhere.
For example: If a clan owns province 9, 10, 14, 15, THE UNITS in province 9 will first be assigned heirs, then the other "unique" generals if the units have space, this setting then moves to province 10, etc... until all uniques are gone. However, non-unique generals will appear anywhere. THUS, you can control where heirs and other generals will start in a game, but not too well.
-my recommendation... don't put a clan's "first" province too far from the heart of a clan's territory as the heirs may be killed quickly.
what else....
ok, from what I can tell, A LOT of useful editing info (info you can edit that is) is NOT in txt files that are on the hard disk, but rather on the CD rom itself..
: (
I really liked how they did Civ II because you could edit the txt files on your computer and totally change the game since you didn't need to have the CD rom unless you wanted the graphics (more games should do this--Civ II sold a TON of games even though a CD was not mandatory)
Anyways, if Hecose or Tosa or Erado or Magyar or Khan, or Krae or anyone comes up with some stuff, please let me know...
I BELIEVE that we are "this close" to getting a fully editable game... including playing on custom maps in a campaign game... we can edit maps... we can edit starting stuff... if we can just find the files... wait a sec... we probably can do it already...
HEY, WOULD THIS WORK?????
Finding the totomi map and changing the files related to it.... you guys following me??? then playing a campaign on the "new totomi" map.... basically we could REALLY create our own stuff. EVEN though we may be forced to use the original Campaign map, we could have our own battlefields, our own starting forces, and our own unit stats (I don't know much about this, but I know Khan and others have been messing with them).
--this could allow for a "civil war" campaign for example with civil war maps.... you would just have to remember that Virginia is now known as "Yamashiro" and Gettysburg is now Shinano on the campaign map... BUT, the tactical maps would be of your own design...
OR, even a korea/china/mongol/japanese game of sorts... hmmm... lots of potential..
Anyways, what do people think? or, has someone already thought this up and tried it or been working on it?
well, I'm back to figuring out some stuff. I hope to have my first campaign done soon... hopefully I can have internet connection shortly to upload the campaign.
btw, I know how to set up your own "campaign description" now... I think that's what Hecose was talking about earlier. It's pretty cool actually.---AND I CAN SEE ALL 8 clans when starting up actually, as opposed to jsut seeing shimazu at first...
WEll, keep me informed guys!
-Zen Blade
------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member
First off,
I want to thank hecose for the making a very friendly program.
Second,
I think campaign editing and an editor to work with is VERY important and I hope others can help bring about a fan-based editing system that incorporates and allows as many changes as possible.
Alright,
so now to what I have found....
I made a campaign based on the 1550 campaign and edited it according to a rough estimate of the politics of 1565.
My first difficulty was with Daimyo/heir/generals (ronin and player)... this involved both ranks, positioning and selecting the unit they controlled.
-I didn't care too much about the unit they controlled, but I did get upset that all the "unique" leaders were in the same territory and I couldn't control their rankings.
-I also got upset that I couldn't control which ronin got taishos with a rank and which were not.
-The main problem though was that I got COMPLETELY random daimyos... And I didn't know why for a while.
-As Hecose was posting and saying his thoughts on the matter, I was looking through the txt files in the "startpos" folder... and decided that after making a campaign I needed to insert a number of lines based upon what I saw in the pre-made campaign txt. Thus, I added the exact copy of the "daimyo starting" lines straight into my txt and restarted the map...
--this worked better and on the "alliance" page all the names were correct BUT they were not the ones I wanted....
-So, using the list hecose constructed (I didn't remember exactly who was where, but had an idea) I messed around with the numbers and got the daimyos I WANTED to show up on the "alliance" screen... HOWEVER, they were not on the actual campaign map...
Instead, Takeda Shingen was "the daimyo" for not only his clan, but also for the Mori and Hojo clans. (although he didn't get the horse icon).
-I messed around with this for a while trying to figure out why, and I still don't know for sure, BUT by changing a daimyo's starting position on the map... the bug becomes worse, better, or stays the same...
For example: The Hojo daimyo started in Sagami but was "takeda Shingen" and remained so when I moved the REAL Takeda Shingen to either Shinano or Suruga (the real having been in Kai). HOWEVER, when I moved Takeda to Suruga (I think) Takeda Shingen became "Uesugi Kenshin" while Mori and Hojo were still "shingen" and Uesugi remained himself...
THEN, seeing these results, I moved Hojo to Musashi and MAGICALLY he became himself (horse and all)... Seeing this, I then tried the same with Mori and on the first move (to Izumo I think) he became himself.
This appeared to solve ALL related problems... I don't understand it though.
BUT, when I next loaded as Hojo, the heirs were ok on the campaign map, BUT on the "heir sheet" they had the Takeda heir names (their correct Hojo ages though). However, when I restarted the game, the heir sheet was correct... so, not sure about this problem.
-The next problem I wanted to solve was the "unique general" problem of being stacked. This one is actually quite simple... The computer, when starting the game appears to just place them in their "order".--not sure where this is exactly, but the computer has it set somewhere.
For example: If a clan owns province 9, 10, 14, 15, THE UNITS in province 9 will first be assigned heirs, then the other "unique" generals if the units have space, this setting then moves to province 10, etc... until all uniques are gone. However, non-unique generals will appear anywhere. THUS, you can control where heirs and other generals will start in a game, but not too well.
-my recommendation... don't put a clan's "first" province too far from the heart of a clan's territory as the heirs may be killed quickly.
what else....
ok, from what I can tell, A LOT of useful editing info (info you can edit that is) is NOT in txt files that are on the hard disk, but rather on the CD rom itself..
: (
I really liked how they did Civ II because you could edit the txt files on your computer and totally change the game since you didn't need to have the CD rom unless you wanted the graphics (more games should do this--Civ II sold a TON of games even though a CD was not mandatory)
Anyways, if Hecose or Tosa or Erado or Magyar or Khan, or Krae or anyone comes up with some stuff, please let me know...
I BELIEVE that we are "this close" to getting a fully editable game... including playing on custom maps in a campaign game... we can edit maps... we can edit starting stuff... if we can just find the files... wait a sec... we probably can do it already...
HEY, WOULD THIS WORK?????
Finding the totomi map and changing the files related to it.... you guys following me??? then playing a campaign on the "new totomi" map.... basically we could REALLY create our own stuff. EVEN though we may be forced to use the original Campaign map, we could have our own battlefields, our own starting forces, and our own unit stats (I don't know much about this, but I know Khan and others have been messing with them).
--this could allow for a "civil war" campaign for example with civil war maps.... you would just have to remember that Virginia is now known as "Yamashiro" and Gettysburg is now Shinano on the campaign map... BUT, the tactical maps would be of your own design...
OR, even a korea/china/mongol/japanese game of sorts... hmmm... lots of potential..
Anyways, what do people think? or, has someone already thought this up and tried it or been working on it?
well, I'm back to figuring out some stuff. I hope to have my first campaign done soon... hopefully I can have internet connection shortly to upload the campaign.
btw, I know how to set up your own "campaign description" now... I think that's what Hecose was talking about earlier. It's pretty cool actually.---AND I CAN SEE ALL 8 clans when starting up actually, as opposed to jsut seeing shimazu at first...
WEll, keep me informed guys!
-Zen Blade
------------------
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member