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WesW
07-16-2005, 11:38
The beta for the Medmod IV version 4.00 is now posted at my webpage. The castle pic at the bottom of this post is a link to it, as is the website button below that.
The mod is divided into three portions. The Graphics portion must be installed before the Texts portion. The Maptex portion may be installed at anytime. Note that you do not need the large Maptex portion if you set your Strategic map resolution to 1024x768. Those of you using dail-up may appreciate this.

The mod uses an executable pointed to the "Medieval - Total War" folder using the default game installation path. Previous versions of the Medmod were pointed at the "Total War" folder, which contains the MTW folder. If you did not use the default path, you will need to manually direct it to your corresponding MTW folder.
During installation, you should get the standard message asking if you want to overwrite existing files, unless you have set your system not to ask that, of course. If you do not receive this message, it means that you have not directed the installer to the correct folder. There is a post in the old Medmod 4 thread from a player who said the beta was running correctly, so mis-directing the installer is the only thing I can think of which should cause the beta not to show up.
Depending upon its time of the month, the Apolyton server may corrupt the download, so try dl'ing it again if you get an error when you try to start the game or the campaign.

The beta only contains the MM Late campaign, and will interfere with any other campaigns or saved games that you have. The simple uninstallation method described in the intro readme will not replace the modded map files. The original maps are contained on the game CD, however, in the Data\Textures\campmap folder. The corresponding game folder is Medieval - Total War\Textures\campmap.
I hope to find a volunteer to make an exe which will place the game's existing maps in a temporary directory upon mod installation, so that uninstallation will be as simple as installation.

I had a hell of a time finding the last few fatal bugs in the mod, but while solving those I also discovered and fixed dozens of other bugs along the way, some serious and some not, so this should be a very polished mod, for a beta anyway.
Other than bug reports, general gameplay quality and economics will be the major areas to be analysed and commented upon.

Place-holder graphics, copies of either the Rebels or the Almohads, are being used for the new factions in most places. Names on the strategic map have not yet been modified for the mod, either, though changes to landmasses and sea boundaries have been made.
There are also a certain number of units whose weapons are out of alignment. Finding and correcting them will also be one purpose for beta-tesing, so please report any of those that you notice.
If your Strategic map resolution is set to 800x600, the row of faction leaders will not appear during the AI turn, due to the increased number of factions in the mod. Also, faction descriptions only appear for those factions which were originally playable, due to a hard-coded limitation, so note that this is not a bug. Finally, you cannot use Huge unit sizes with the mod, due to the increased size of some units.
These are the only glitches or limitations that I am aware of. The rest of the mod should be gold-quality, so let me know if you happen across anything else.

Finally, the Readmes. I have posted HTML versions of the four main ones on my webpage, to give you a good idea of all that is in the mod. Word versions of these four, along with the Excel charts and a few other files, are contained in the Charts and Readmes subfolder which the mod creates in the MTW folder. A significant portion of the entire time spent on the mod has gone into composing these readmes and charts, and they are invaluable to your initial understanding of the mod, and should continue to be very valuable as long as you use the mod, so please find and mark them. I think you will find them informative, accurate and, at times, extremely interesting.
I have pasted in a copy of the Intro text below to make it easier to answer any technical questions you might have, though the HTML and Word versions are much easier to read.

----------------------edit by drone------------------
Medmod_IV_v4_07_exe (http://www.gamefront.com/files/17829632/Medmod_IV_v4_07_exe)
Medmod_IV_v4_Maptex_exe (http://www.gamefront.com/files/17829655/Medmod_IV_v4_Maptex_exe)
-----------------------------------------------------

WesW
07-16-2005, 11:40
Introductory and Installation Readme for
The Medieval Mod IV for Total War: Viking Expansion
v4.00 beta: Path to Glory
By Wes Whitaker Email: wesw2005@comcast.net Website: http://wes.apolyton.net/ .

This readme contains an introduction to the mod and the Medieval Mod Pack lineage, instructions for both installation and un-installation, guides to using the extensive charts and documentation packaged with the mod, and descriptions of the major concepts and improvements introduced in the mod.

Background and History:
My aim with this mod, as it has been with my other Medieval mods for Call-to-Power I and II, is to correct any errors which may have slipped by the designers, even out those settings and stats which seem unbalanced, address inadequacies in AI performance, and expand the game in ways which I believe will increase players’ enjoyment of the game.
These modifications are the results of over a year spent playing the game, listening to player posts in the mod threads, and scanning the forums to see what people were saying about the game, both good and bad. The result was thousands of individual changes and/or additions made to the game for the first two versions of the mod, though I still didn’t consider it to be the major overhaul that accomplished with the Call-to-Power games.
When I started the Proposed Unit Lineup thread for the v3.00 beta, back in June of 2003, I said that here would be the major overhaul that characterized the previous Medieval Modification Packs. I privately wondered if that could really be true, since I didn't have access to the types of AI and other files that were open in the Call-to-Power games. Well, I think that version three came very close, and that with version four I have achieved the major overhaul that I envisioned, and have even surpassed it in some respects. This fourth edition of the Medieval Modification Pack, which traces its history back to 1999, is as good, if not better, than any of the previous editions, and it would never have been possible for me to come close to a modification package of this size and quality without the support of many fine people at Total War.org, both posters and lurkers.

My first goal with version three of the mod was to make the game more challenging once you enter the conquest phase. This is done by restricting the provinces where factions can produce units. The areas where factions can recruit their units are called Homelands. This reflects the theory that empires are built upon the native troops from where the people originated, rather than draftees from newly conquered areas. Practically all units are restricted to a Homeland, or else they require unique buildings to construct.
In order to restrict the units to certain provinces, I added close to 100 new units to the game, and drafted more than thirty additional units from the Viking Campaign for use in the standard campaigns. These additional units allowed the implementation of my second goal, which involved expanding upon the original CA design of giving each religion unique characteristics and unit traits. My goal was to give unique characteristics and units to each faction in the game.
A secondary aim in the goal of faction uniqueness was to add much more historical realism to the game, and I am very proud with what has been accomplished, thanks mainly to the members and visitors of the TotalWar.org forums. Many of them have contributed their knowledge to the development of the unit lineup, and some like Dan, Russ and Mael have spent considerable time and effort researching and passing on to me their information on this era in history. I am continually astounded by the depth of knowledge held by many of the members of the forums. This added realism was why I entitled version three Total Immersion, because I believe that you could now become engrossed in the feel and atmosphere of the Medieval period to a level I have never felt outside of role-playing games. Well, the level of historical depth and knowledge implemented for version four far surpasses even that of version three, to the point of approaching a historical simulation, I believe, resulting in major revamps of many factions. In addition to unit lineups, this included the addition of historically accurate rulers and heroes.
Work also continued on the basic task of improving AI performance and enhancing gameplay, and several more concepts were developed in pursuit of these goals. Thousands of additional changes were made to the made to the files, including a complete overhaul of unit priorities, and the continued development of the campaign files in order to offer a better-balanced starting position for all factions in the game, as well as creating strategic situations that would challenge even the most experienced of players.


New and expanded game concepts:

New concept: Homelands
A dozen or so provinces that share the same ethnicity as a given faction, usually encompassing the faction's territory and some surrounding provinces. Note that two or more factions may claim the same province, where their peoples intermingle. This can often lead to conflict between the factions. A list of the Homelands for each faction is available in the Homelands and Mercs page of the v3 stats spreadsheet.
For non-Homeland provinces, you may be able to build peasants, ships, artillery or special attack units such as spies and assassins. Specifics may be found in the Unit notes text.
Note: Crusading factions have access to the units used by the Crusader States faction, in the Crusader States’ Homeland.

New concept: Restricted Inns
Inns can now be built only in provinces where the Mercenary "good" is found. These provinces will generally be in areas where ethnic Homelands overlap, and thus conflict is more likely, or in areas where special mercenary troops are available, such as Scotland.

Expanded concept: Unique Bodyguards
The discovery that the game ignores any era restrictions on bodyguard units allowed the designation of faction-specific units for each faction. Bodyguards can be any regular troop. The Italians, in fact, don’t even use cavalry, but a variety of infantry instead! Bodyguards are denoted in the faction descriptions text by the initials “BG”.

New concept: Standard, Compound and Mongol bows
Many units from non-Catholic regions, primarily the open Steppes and the deserts of the Middle East and North Africa, used bows superior to those of Feudal Europe, and now this is properly reflected in the game.
Each bow type comes with a different amount of arrows, which is both historically accurate and makes it easy to tell what type of bow a unit utilizes when viewing the unit lists. Extensive descriptions of each bow type is contained in the Unit notes readme, as well as a detailed chart listing the exact differences between them, as well as the other changes to the various projectile stats used in the game.

New resource: Trade Routes
These are present in certain inland, historically correct provinces, allowing exotic trade goods to be present, and enabling the construction of Merchants, which are not otherwise allowed in land-locked provinces.

Major improvements:

1) Close to 100 new units for the standard campaigns, as well as the removal units that had little effect on the game, were redundant, or were simply a bad idea to begin with.
2) New unit types, such as Cavalry Killers. (see Unit notes document)
3) Factions that are even more varied, yet better balanced than ever before, as the result of continued playtesting and feedback on the forums. For example, practically every unit in the game from version three has been tweaked, if not completely overhauled.
4) Major revisions of the naval and trade system, including the addition of a new Resource, Trade Routes, necessary for building Merchants in inland provinces.
5) The conversion of most hybrid melee/missile units to dedicated units, either melee or ranged units, due to the AI’s inability to use them properly. This should help the Muslim factions significantly when they are controlled by the AI.
6) A way of circumventing the game’s rule which placed Artillery units at the top of the list of AI forces. This will help AI performance immensely in large open-field battles.
7) The recommendations of a Medieval scholar with particular expertise in missile warfare have resulted in the first overhaul of the Projectile text since version one of the mod. The version one alterations greatly improved the game, and I expect this new overhaul to enhance it just as much over our previous file.
8) A major expansion and improvement of the Rulers and Heroes text, for some of the original factions as well as the new ones.
9) More historically correct names for the Muslim factions in the game, based upon the work of the Muslim Research team. This includes unit names as well as royal, princess and noble names.
10) Extensive additions to the background notes and facts regarding all facets of the game. Many of these may be found in the MM4_Heroes.txt, as well as the Historical Notes document, which is in the Charts and Readmes folder.

The two greatest improvements to the mod for version four, however, are the new, greatly improved Strategic Map, and the addition of 12 new factions to the game.


Acknowledgements:
Mael Knapp, a.k.a. Yelping Godzilla, was an invaluable source of both ideas and historical information, and he wrote most all of the unit descriptions created for the first three versions of the mod. Ron du Bois, a.k.a. Quokka, was also of immense help in this area, especially in regards to the Muslim units. I encourage you to take note of these if you have any interest what-so-ever in history, as they are as good or better than any ever written for the Medieval series, and those of you familiar with previous Medmods know how high a praise this is. I have included these descriptions in the mod’s spreadsheet alongside the new and altered unit names for the mod.
Also, thanks go out to Lord Crazy, Barocca and the other guys who offered help on the .org forums, and to forum members such as Gaelstrum, Red Harvest, Pablo Sanchez and especially A_B, who offered key suggestions to solving certain problems, and provided extensive feedback in the development of the mod.
Many of the graphics for the new factions were made by Blind King of Bohemia for his mod. Viking Horde was very helpful in solving a couple of critical technical problems with the new map.
In addition, there were many people who helped me construct the new map and new factions, as well as overhaul much of the existing factions. I decided to divide the map into regions, and ask for volunteers to take over responsibility for both the provinces and factions contained in these regions.
Russ Mitchell handled the Balkans and Steppes, and contributed much to the overall development of the mod.
Isopostolos (Sean Parramore) was especially helpful with the Latin States faction, as well as info on Greece and Asia Minor.
Eastside Character (David Ruszkowski) did a fantastic job researching northern Europe, and was instrumental in re-organizing the Poles.
Sicilian Vespers (Salvatore Marino) did a great job with the Italian Peninsula and the splitting of the Italian faction.
PseRamesses (Patrick Ericson) handled Scandinavia with the skill of a native, and was key in the development of the Danes and Swedes.
cutepuppy (Roel Ghysens) came onboard at a critical time and did a marvelous job covering all the changes made to the provinces in Germany and France.
Youngturk (Peter Tirado) also lent a hand with the Turks and Asia Minor.
Aymara deBois Mauri (Ricardo Teixera) not only did an incredible amount of fine work on the Iberian Peninsula and the factions who fought over it, but he also coordinated the work of the Muslim Research Group: Sinan (Shahed Kazi), Cebei (Akin Unver) and Faisal (Faisal Hussein), who completely overhauled the Muslim factions and the lands they occupied.
These guys made extensive posts full of suggestions and information used in developing the new map, with historical info on the provinces, both new and old, as well as the factions who owned them and how everything fit together to form the medieval world. They were also invaluable in researching websites and adding their own knowledge in the creation of the new factions. Besides posting, they sent in numerous reports to me via email with all types of data on actual kings and heroes, along with lists of authentic names for the princes, generals and princesses that are used, both for the new factions and where needed to expand and improve several of the existing factions which had not been adequately fleshed out in the original game.

Version 2.04 of the Medmod IV is the version I made specifically for the Viking Campaign. I have bundled it in with version four, should you wish to try it out as well.

Installation:
For those of you downloading the mod from my site, it is contained in self-extraction utilities.
The Graphics portion of the mod contains permanent mod files that you need to store somewhere, in case you need to re-install the mod at a later date. The Graphics portion must be installed first.
The second utility contains the Texts portion of the mod, and it is this part which is updated when new editions of the mod are released. The Text, or Update, portion must be installed second, after the Graphics portion.
Finally, there is the large version of the strategic map. This version is not needed if you set your strategic map resolution higher than 800x600, which may make the mod much easier to download if you have a modem connection.
After downloading a portion, all you need do is save it, click on it, and follow the instructions. And please take the few seconds required to read them, as they may save you considerable time later.
For example, if you have installed the game to a directory other than C:\Program Files\Total War, you will need to point the installer to your equivalent of the Medieval – Total War folder. The second page of the installer asks you where you want the mod files created. If you let Total War install itself to the default directory, then you can simply click the button to proceed with installation, since the installer is already pointed to the default directory.

Starting the game:
When you start the game, you should see the short Medieval Mod IV video, unless you use the skipcredits bypass. The caption “MM 4.00” should be shown in the Main Menu, denoting the version of the mod currently installed. In the Campaign Selection screen, you should see new campaigns with the “MM” prefix.
Note that the additional campaigns mean that you may have to use the scroll bar that appears to the right of the list to select the later campaigns.

Caution: You cannot play the mod if you have Huge unit sizes selected, due to the over-sized Muslim and pike units. All other sizes will work.

Note: The line of faction portraits do not appear during the AI turn if your Strategic Map resolution is set to 800x600, since they will not all fit onscreen. This has no affect on gameplay.

Conversions for non-English versions:
The Winzip and self-extraction utility are both set to unzip the mod’s Language Localization files into the English language folder. This means that the mod will not work for non-English versions of the game until you do a couple of simple things. These actions will convert your game to all-English. I have included instructions in Step 1 for backing up your original files.
1) Look in the Medieval – Total War\Loc folder, and you should see two folders. One of them will be named Eng, and contains all of the English language files for the English version of the game. The other folder will be the one for your language, say Ita for Italian, and contains all the translated, or Localized, files for your language. This is the folder the game looks for in your version, instead of the Eng folder. Cut the Ita folder out and paste it somewhere as a back-up, in case you ever want to go back to the original game. I would recommend pasting it in the Medieval – Total War\ Charts and Readmes folder.
2) Re-name the Eng folder to match the one for your language, which would be Ita for Italian. This allows the game to find the appropriate files. That’s it. ;)


Un-installing the game:
I have set up a very simple way to un-install the mod, by pasting in the few original files that the mod over-writes.
Look in the Medieval – Total War\Charts and Readmes\un-install folder, copy its contents, and paste them into the Medieval – Total War folder. That’s all for the English version of the game.
For non-English versions, you will also need to paste your backed-up language folder into its original place, Medieval – Total War\Loc.

Color Scheme:
General changes, text references and acknowledgements, file references, provinces, Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, Christian, buildings, ships, spearmen, infantry, cavalry, missiles, agents.

Charts and Readmes:
This file, along with the spreadsheet and some other interesting texts, is placed in your Charts and Readmes folder, which is located in your Medieval – Total War folder. If you do not have Microsoft Excel or Word, I have uploaded viewers for them to my webpage, which you may directly download by simply clicking on these links: Word '97 32-bit viewer and/or Microsoft Excel viewer .

Presenting the enormous additions and alterations contained in this mod, in a way that is convenient, intuitive and sufficiently detailed, has been one of the hardest tasks which I have faced with this version.
Your first step should be to read over the entire text of this Readme, then the Non-unit and Unit notes Word documents, followed by the Faction descriptions. The Faction descriptions document will be the one which you refer to most often, so you may want to print it out rather than minimize the game and bring it up on your screen.
This Introductory Readme lists the major game improvements and new concepts added by the mod, along with its background and the details of what I set out to improve and expand in the game. Also included are the details on how to purchase, download, install and un-install it. Finally, it describes the contents and aims of all the other documents and spreadsheets included to further explain and help you get the most enjoyment possible from what I truly feel is a spectacular addition to an already great game.
The Non-units document covers the changes made to provincial infrastructure, attributes and ownership, and how they are reflected in the new strategic map, with notes regarding specific points of interest. In addition, it covers changes to the trade system, with short descriptions and explanations where necessary. Finally, the major changes and additions to buildings are described and detailed where necessary.
The Units notes Word doc covers a lot of both general and specific changes to units and factions, including new concepts and the new arrangements for artillery, ships and non-combat units. It also contains tables detailing the units which appear in Crusades and Jihads, as well as all of the noteworthy categories in the Projectile stats, with both the original and new settings. Perhaps most importantly, I have written extensive, detailed notes and explanations for the changes made to all three of these important aspects of the game. Here you can see the enormous forethought and reasoning which went into these settings, down to the physics and aerodynamics used in setting the missile values.
The Faction descriptions Word doc contains a description of the general characteristics of every faction in the game, and a detailed list of all unique units available to each faction, along with any additional notes of interest. There is very little about the game that has not been touched by the mod, so once you have decided which faction you want to play, you will want to review its entry in this file and make any notes that you think you will need to remember. I have gradually refined the unit descriptions to refer to standard units that any player should be familiar with, and which have, generally speaking, not been significantly altered by the mod. However, I have included the exact stats of these reference units at the start of the file, and I would certainly recommend that you review them thoroughly, in case there are some changes which you feel are significant, and/or to brush up on your memory.
Therefore, you can study your faction’s units at the start of the game, and make a note that, for example, a given unit is slightly weaker in melee than a Feudal Man-at-Arms. This way, you don’t have to worry about remembering its exact stats during the middle of a battle. However, I have found that an even greater advantage of this system is that you can make similar notes regarding the units you are fighting! This will save you a lot of time and annoyance over the course of an entire game. I have also taken much time and effort to keep units true to their appearance. In other words, if a unit looks like Gothic Sergeants, then they will have similar stats to that original unit.

v4 stats Excel spreadsheet:
This file contains several pages which contain a wealth of useful information.
The Homelands and Mercs page lists the specific provinces in each faction’s homeland, including which provinces can have Inns, and therefore Mercenaries. It also contains a complete list of all provinces, with notes on which ones have been re-named, deleted and added to the map.
The Buildings page tells you the exact stats of all buildings, with changes highlighted by a yellow background.
The Unit names page contains the descriptions for every unit in the game, and may be used in conjunction with the Units text sheet to find the exact values of every statistic for every unit in the game by matching the unit’s Game or Screen name with its File name, which is the one listed in the Units text.
The Units text page of the v4 stats spreadsheet an exact copy of the units text file, which was pasted into the. This file contains all relevant, and some non-relevant, information about every unit in the game. This page should be used as the primary source of information on the exact costs and building requirements for all units. The column headers for this page explain what info each column contains. You may want to order the units by faction, column AC for example, to see a list of a faction's unique units, or you can look up any of the other info contained in the game's units text. This includes price ( C), upkeep (D), turns to build (E), number of men per unit (H), region bonuses (M), general stats, including movement Speed, Charge, Attack, Defense and Morale (W), era and provincial restrictions (T & AD), special abilities such as armour-piercing, supporting ranks and bonuses versus cavalry units (AI to AQ), and dismounting info (AU & AV).
What I do when starting a game is get a notepad and pencil and construct a list of the primary units for my faction, noting building requirements, region bonuses, where present, and any additional data that I find relevant such as excellent speed or armour-piercing ability. Then I refer to the Faction Descriptions doc as needed while playing, and don’t think that I don’t need the help just because I put the mod together. There is just too much info to keep everything in your head, and I hope that you will have too much fun playing the game.

farfarer
07-16-2005, 13:14
Superb Mod! So many good changes to the map! Many thanks to Wes and the team. I have been playing as the English and noticed two things.
- I couldn't do anything with my ships in the North sea: needed to move them out to another sea region before I could attack, split the stack etc
- battles against French were fine but on both occasions when I tried to fight the Scots (ie not resolve automatically) I got a CTD when battle was loading

william the bastard
07-17-2005, 21:27
Yes indeed, nice work Wes. Just notice a lot of factions have the Almohad flag, swede, genoese, portuguese and other don't remind, sorry. But there's something to feel strange for me about your homeland concept. First, I agree with your idea, but it is really annoying for my army that the lonely unit avialaible in conquered lands is just Peasant ~:confused: Iam currently playng with the Ventians,conquers some eastern provinces as tripoli and Palestine and cannot have units expect peasants. No more militia availaible at least. i truly understand new lands cannot offer you the same units, but I think, after some years of ruling, some units become availaible, same spirit as the turcopole unit. BTW can recruit "italian _unitsz" in carnolia and lombardia.
In fact, I just wonder, if you don't have put too far your homeland concept.?????
At all respect for your job.

Cheers!!

WesW
07-18-2005, 05:28
Yes indeed, nice work Wes. Just notice a lot of factions have the Almohad flag, swede, genoese, portuguese and other don't remind, sorry. But there's something to feel strange for me about your homeland concept. First, I agree with your idea, but it is really annoying for my army that the lonely unit avialaible in conquered lands is just Peasant ~:confused: Iam currently playng with the Ventians,conquers some eastern provinces as tripoli and Palestine and cannot have units expect peasants. No more militia availaible at least. i truly understand new lands cannot offer you the same units, but I think, after some years of ruling, some units become availaible, same spirit as the turcopole unit. BTW can recruit "italian _unitsz" in carnolia and lombardia.
In fact, I just wonder, if you don't have put too far your homeland concept.?????
At all respect for your job.

Cheers!!
I mentioned in the initial post here that the new factions had placeholder graphics, usually copies of the Rebels or Almohads.
Studying the Excel chart's Homeland's page should help you in knowing which provinces you can recruit from. I chose the areas based upon culture, whenever possible.
I cut the Italian factions from those eligible to recruit Outremer units because the two Homelands border one another. Playtesting revealed that this gave the Venetians in effect a double-sized Homeland.

When I first implemented the Homelands concept for version three, it was very controversial. There were veteran players who were big fans of the mod, such as Toranaga Sama, who thought it was going to ruin the game. There were a couple of months, when I was putting together v3.00, when all I could say was "trust me", since, to my knowledge, nothing like this had ever been tried in a strategy game; that of placing severe regional restrictions upon almost every unit in the game.
I say "almost" because at first I left a few militia-type units available everywhere. Playtesting revealed that the AI would turn out hordes of these units in this situation, in all of its non-Homeland provinces, much as it tends to produce hordes of Peasants in the un-modded game. Therefore I ended up completely restricting the units.
The concept itself turned out to be hugely popular and accepted once players got used to it, and I believe it is one of the main things that separates the Medmod from anything else created for MTW.

I think the greatest example of is acceptance and popularity is the fact that both of the premeire mods for Rome, RTR and EB, feature the Homelands concept as an integral part of their design (it's called the Zone of Recruitment in RTR), and that, to my knowledge, it has generated little if any controversy there.

Aenlic
07-18-2005, 09:12
The homelands concept is definitely my favorite part of MedMod. I'm also a big fan of the limited and province specific mercenaries.

Will version 4 eventually work in the early and high eras? I ask, because I tend to prefer playing in those eras. I have hope anyway; since the version notes list early and/or high era only factions such as the Almoravids and Kievans.

No noticable bugs while playing, so far. It does seem that the economy for the Almohad faction is a bit tight for the first 20 years or so; even with the opening ship units. After that things even out a bit for them, as more ship and get built for more trade routes. The Spanish seem to have a much better time of it at the start, economy-wise. I'm still working through the faction list for comparison.

AggonyDuck
07-18-2005, 11:06
Well I've only found one thing that is strange. Basically in Inn's I sometimes see a culverins with 120 men in them and serpentines with 60 men. Dunno why though. ~:confused:
Anyways I've been playing a Burgundian campaign and I'm loving every second of it. It has been a great challenge and in 1415 no faction is clearly superior to the others. Damn, even my Burgundy is first the third largest faction currently. ~:)

Eternal Champion
07-18-2005, 14:12
Sounds very cool indeed. As soon as I finish my current campaigns will have to give it a shot.

WesW
07-19-2005, 00:53
The public release version will have all three campaigns, of course. It's been enough trouble debugging just the one, and having everyone using the same campaign helps in getting consistent feedback, especially regarding longterm economics.

Artillery pieces shouldn't be available as mercenaries. Sure they weren't regular infantry units?

I have been looking into the Scotland crashes, and although I found a couple of missing border entries from the North Atlantic, it didn't solve the bug. I have double-checked all the campaign entries, so I'll have to start systematically isolating things tonight.

The entries for the North Sea look fine, too, but I'll check that out as well. I hope it's not another hardcoded conflict with making it deep ocean.

AggonyDuck
07-19-2005, 01:15
Well if it helps you at all, I'll mention that the Scots do not work in custom battle either, but CTD during the loading sequence. So it's propably a battle related thing.

AggonyDuck
07-19-2005, 02:07
Actually I've been testing things and it seems that this problem isn't just a thing for the Scots. It seems to affect all the new factions (except the Bulgarians) in the same way with a CTD when loading to the battle.
But during my tests I found that it didn't always CTD and I managed to find that it happened with units with shields that used a faction specific shield, like Chiv Sergeants. (dunno if I'm explaining good enough)
So I'm betting that a lack of shield graphics for the new factions are causing the CTD's. ~;)

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-19-2005, 17:58
Sounds like the old facshields problem. Always needs ironing out straight away when adding new factions. A real bummer. Wes should know how to sort it out.

sprucemoose
07-19-2005, 18:39
Wes

regarding the arty i was able to recruit an organ gun and the german pikemen

bonus although i dont think i should have been able

~:cheers:

also i had a quick look at the startpos and tinkered with it to no avail

Big_John
07-19-2005, 21:08
Sounds like the old facshields problem. Always needs ironing out straight away when adding new factions. A real bummer. Wes should know how to sort it out.is this something only wesw can do? could i potentially do it with some text-file editing? my muslim warriors really need to teach the portugese a lesson! :veryangry:

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-19-2005, 21:22
You need an adding a new faction guide. It tells you which BIF folders to duplicate and how to change what folders soldiers feed from. Its a little complicated if you're hoping for something easy unfortunately.

Big_John
07-19-2005, 21:38
You need an adding a new faction guide. It tells you which BIF folders to duplicate and how to change what folders soldiers feed from. Its a little complicated if you're hoping for something easy unfortunately.:bigcry:

we need you wes!!

Big_John
07-19-2005, 22:31
well, i checked the faction shields section of wesw's startpos file (beta_MM4.txt). everything looks in order. also, the shield .bifs and .tgas all seem to be in place, and the names are correct, as far as i can see. excluding the commented-out factions, the declared faction order is the same as the faction shield order.

it should be noted, however, that i have no clue what i'm doing.

Big_John
07-20-2005, 00:38
ok, i figured out what you were talking about BKB. got to get to the gym before they close, so i don't have time to fix it right now. but i tested it with the portuguese using "spanish men at arms" (no crash using "custom0") and "feudal men at arms" (crash using "chainhlm"), so i think i can manage it.

edit: ok, i followed the face_shield instructions found in this guide:
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/bak-jun-2005/Adding_new_faction_guide.pdf

looks like every thing is working great now. thanks a lot BKB! http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/anbetung.gif

King of Atlantis
07-20-2005, 04:24
This is great, ive never played with such an agressive AI. And im only playing easy!

Crazed Rabbit
07-20-2005, 04:56
It sounds as though WesW has out done himself with a truly amazing mod.

Congratulations!

I have one question: How many units are affected by the facshields bug? I want to know how much I'd have to do if I wanted to patch it up and not wait for the next version.

Crazed Rabbit

Big_John
07-20-2005, 05:25
fixing the face-shields (or whatever it's called) bug is pretty easy, really. here's what i did:

note: be sure everything is backed up before proceeding




according to the instructions in that guide i linked, i copied these folders (and renamed the copies) in the \Textures\Men\ directory:

original name -> new name
Peasant -> Custom0
ChainHlm -> Custom1
HlPlArSH -> Custom2
LArmWCav -> Custom3
MKnight -> Custom4
MSHelm -> Custom5
PlateS -> Custom6

then, inside each "custom" folder, i renamed the .bif and .lbm files in the same fashion as the folders
e.g.:
LArmWCav.bif -> Custom3.bif
LARMWCAV_H.BIF -> Custom3_H.bif
LArmWCav.LBM -> Custom3.LBM

next, i opened up MM_Full_unit_prod.txt (in the main MTW folder) in a text editor and replaced all instances ("replaceall") of the original unit-body-type (i.e. Peasant, ChainHlm, HlPlArSH, LArmWCav, MKnight, MSHelm, PlateS) with the corresponding "custom" entry (i.e. Custom0, Custom1, Custom2, Custom3, Custom4, Custom5, Custom6).

NOTE: if you do a "replaceall" like i did, be sure to replace "Peasant (with the quote in front) with "Custom0. leaving the quote out will cause entries outside of field 48 (the body-type field) to be changed as well. use that quote mark (") in front for all changes (e.g. replace "MKnight with "Custom4 [with the quote in front]).

a safer way to do this would be to go unit by unit and rename the body-type value in field 48 using the GnomeEditor (http://www.mizus.com/Tools/Files/Gnome_UnitBuildProj_Editorv2.0.zip) found on the org's download pages (http://www.mizus.com/Tools/Files/).



that's it. once i figured out what to do, it took me 2 minutes.

Aenlic
07-20-2005, 05:32
This information is all from Starkhorn's Adding_new_faction_guide.pdf (see thread in the alchemist topic)

Any units using one of the following face shield textures will cause a crash if they appear in a new (FN_FREE) faction:

"Peasant", "ChainHlm", "HlPlArSH", "LArmWCav", "MKnight","MSHelm" and "PlateS"

First you need to go into textures/men and find the following folders and copy, rename and repaste them into the same directory thus:

"Peasant" :- Custom0
ChainHlm" :- Custom1
"HlPlArSH" :- Custom2
"LArmWCav" :- Custom3
"MKnight" :- Custom4
"MSHelm" :- Custom5
"PlateS" :- Custom6

Now go into each new folder and change the names of the files in them to match the folder. For example, go into "Peasants" and rename Peasant_H.bif file to Custom0_H.bif and Peasant_H.lbm to Custom0_H.lbm. Do this for all the files in the 7 new folders.

You're only just getting started.

Now comes the fun part where mistakes can happen (and might be the reason for the CTD's in the beta). Using an editor like Gnome's or Dragon's (links in stickied threads in alchemist topic), open CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt file and find field48 - the texture body field. Go down through the list and change any units that match the above list to the appropriate new CustomX name. For example, the very first entry, Highland Clansmen (the source of the Scotland CTD, I'll bet) uses the Peasant texture. So in field 48 for the Highland Clansmen you'll change the entry so it looks like this: "CUSTOM0, YES, YES"

Do this for any and all units and ONLY those units which use one of the 7 textures from the above list.

(NOTE: All caps in this field seems to be a requirement, it might not work if you use Custom0 instead of CUSTOM0, even though the folder is actually named Custom0)

Any little mistake in the Crusader file will cause a CTD when the game encounters that unit. And for some reason the faceshield units only are affected when they appear in new factions. Units using archer textures in the Pestunic folder don't seem to cause crashes. Must be something hardcoded.

Aenlic
07-20-2005, 05:35
I just caught a mistake in the above. Don't go into the "Peasants" folder and rename the files to Custom0, etc.

Go into the Custom0 folder and rename the files from peasant to custom, etc. And so on for eachof the folders.

Aenlic
07-20-2005, 05:38
Talk about synchonicity. Big John and I posted the exact same thing within minutes of each other. Sorry for the repost. Big John was posting his while I was composing mine.

Big_John
07-20-2005, 05:44
Talk about synchonicity. Big John and I posted the exact same thing within minutes of each other. Sorry for the repost. Big John was posting his while I was composing mine.no worries, it happens a lot when people are posting long explanations.

note, though, changing the field 48 values in CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt won't affect a Medmod campaign. you need to change the values for field 48 in MM_Full_unit_prod.txt for that (CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt can be left untouched).

Crazed Rabbit
07-20-2005, 05:53
Thanks for the help, both of you! Currently replacing the folders.

Crazed Rabbit

Aenlic
07-20-2005, 08:18
no worries, it happens a lot when people are posting long explanations.

note, though, changing the field 48 values in CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt won't affect a Medmod campaign. you need to change the values for field 48 in MM_Full_unit_prod.txt for that (CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.txt can be left untouched).

Oh, good catch. Correct indeed. Wes uses a different unit file.

I just finished reading the comments Wes included in the startpos file. So much nicer than the CA originals. Makes it very easy to follow along. I'm nearly salivating at the thought of being able to play this new version in all eras when it's finished. The map is great, the new factions look balanced. I noticed some of the new titles, such as for the Portuguese. Very nice indeed.

WesW
07-20-2005, 09:41
Thanks for the reports regarding the fac_shield crashes, guys. I researched this area a few weeks ago, and came across a couple of reports stating that their absence shouldn't crash the game. I guess there was still some confusion when those posts were made.

A couple of points for modders:
1)The names for the folders are hardcoded, so you must use the names Custom0-9.
2)As Aenlic said, the names must be all caps in the units text. Things like this cause hair loss.
3)The issue itself involves individual shields within the bifs of the seven body types. You can, or should be able to, actually use the types, as long as you don't select those particular shields for units used by new factions. You can recognise them because they are solid white.

The fac_shields themselves are located in the Battle folder, and are arranged by units, so it's a wonder that new units work with old factions. There is probably a hard link from each of the seven body type folders to a corresponding unit folder, if I had to guess.

Aenlic, there are plenty more notes in the MM4_Heroes.txt. The guys who sent in the info on the new heroes and kings often included short bios with them.

Since this is a CTD issue, I'll post the fix immediately. It should be up within an hour after I submit this reply.

I have also tweaked a few things with the game, most noticably restricting High-era ships to coastal waters, where they should have been to begin with. This means all starting ships are now coastal only.

If you are updating, you only need to get the texts portion, since I'll stick the copied graphics in there for this update.

The Blind King of Bohemia
07-20-2005, 10:35
There are actually 8, PlateCav being the one someone missed.

barocca
07-20-2005, 10:40
There are actually 8, PlateCav being the one someone missed.
Yep - 8 is correct
B.

WesW
07-20-2005, 13:48
Edit: I'm pretty sure that last folder was left out of the guide, too.

I have just finished uploading the texts (again). The custom graphics added about 6 megs to the size of the download.

I got to looking into the names and descriptions, and I must have meant to get back to the Muslims and then never did, back when I was doing all the other factions, because they hadn't been updated for version four.
I then finished adding unit bonuses to the rest of the provinces. I also shifted a few around, so remember to look over the Faction Descriptions readme for your faction when you begin play.

If any of you are running custom battles, please take time to notice if the units' weapons are properly placed, or even missing. There may be some with the non-Catholic factions especially.

JR-
07-20-2005, 14:14
fantastic, can't wait for the final object.

Pericles
07-20-2005, 15:35
Wes:

I am very happy to see that you are back modding MTW - surely, one of the best games available...

Cheers!

Big_John
07-20-2005, 18:43
hmm, with the update, will i be able to continue my campaing of almohad dominance? or do i need to start a new campaign?

Aenlic
07-20-2005, 19:45
Ah, thanks, Wes! The info in the heroes texts is wonderful. Those guys did a great job.

8 folders? Well, crap. That explains a few things in my own fledgling mod. PlateCav too (sigh). Well, at least I won't be pulling my hair out in big clumps... until the next wall smacks me in the nose.

Was it corrected in Starkhorn's v1.1 of the adding_new_factions.pdf? The one available for download is the v1 with all of the errors. New modders, me included, are beating our brains out on v1 of that guide.

Heh, Big John, so you have a thing for the Almohads too? There's just something special about smacking around all those hoity-toity late era uppity armies with a good old-fashioned early and high era army.

WesW
07-21-2005, 07:48
Yeah, you'll have to start a new campaign for the changes to take affect.
If you're looking for a struggle, you might want to try out the Bulgarians. I hear the Horde's a blast!

Aenlic
07-21-2005, 10:13
Well, I hit a CTD and I have no idea why. Tried to isolate it and nothing obvious is jumping out at me. Playing the Russians, year is 1395. Hit end turn and crash. I had 2 buildings ready to finish for the next turn, a merchant in Kiev and a copper mine in Armenia. Deleted them from the building queue. Still CTD. No units of any kind being built. No units being moved. No wars. The only thing which might happen the following turn is my leader, Grand Prince Andrei IV is 45 and might die. Otherwise, nothing at all is happening in my territories to explain the CTD. It has to be something happening elsewhere; which, of course, I can't see.

A couple of other things. just minor bugs.

Lithuania has a Setbuilding for a shipyard2 at the campaign beginning. Being an inland province now with the expansion of Livonia, they shouldn't have a port. Ships can be built; but they'll disappear into the ether when finished since Lithuania has no border with a sea. I suspect this may be why Lithuania was so easy to conquer as the Russians, after I finished off the Horde. The AI was building ships.

The SetOrigin for the Baltic probably needs to be adjusted a little south. Right now, AI ships appearing in the Baltic end up just south of Gotland right on top of where the 2 new seas intersect with the Baltic. It's difficult to tell that they're actually just in the Baltic, rather than one of the two new seas, until the AI moves ships into the new seas making it obvious.

Last one is a minor thing which might be intentional, but I thought I'd better check. Some names have odd capital letters in them. I suspect it might be to due to a non-standard character set imported into the MM4_Heroes.txt file. It's not all of any particular letter, just some. The new letters seem to always be capital letters in odd places, which clued me in to the problem. So some a's in some names, particularly Hungarian, but some others, appear as a capital N. So the name Istvan, for instance, appears as IstvNn. It shows as IstvNn in the heroes.txt and in the game. The same for some other characters. Some o's ended up as X, so Otto looks like OttX. Some i's came out as Z, so the Egyptian names Ali and Khalil came out as AlZ and KhalZl. That same Z appears in some Spanish as well, such as Garcia and Diaz being GarcZa and DZaz. Some e's are showing as Q's making Clement into ClQment and d'Orleans into d'OrlQans. There are others which are possible but I'm not sure of them. Some of the names for the Golden Horde have odd capitals in the middle, like ArigbVge, GYyYk, HYlegY, JVchi and JgVdei and some others. There is a suspect capital M in the middle or at the end of some of the Scottish names, such as the BroiM and the RoM and FeniM and ViMman.

WesW
07-22-2005, 06:37
Good work, Aenlic, this is just the type of info I need. I had noticed the odd capitals in the Hungarian names, but I thought it was just the way they spelled them, like Kent Hrbek. Anyway, I went through and corrected all the ones I ran across. They seemed to come in bunches, and they all seemed to be vowels, so they were probably supposed to be accented and didn't translate properly. I did the best I could with them, but at times I felt like an official at Ellis Island. ~;)

To better see what is going on in the game, read the Godmode commands text that is included in the Charts and Readmes folder.
It will show you how to unlock the debugging commands used by the programmers. They let you see the whole map, change which faction you control, or let the AI take over all players. You can't control the new factions, unfortunately, so you can't see what they are building, but it's great for checking out the finances and such of the original factions.
The commands work with saved games, too.

Aenlic
07-22-2005, 19:44
Ah! That's good news. I didn't realize that the god mode works on saved games. I still have that 1395 Russian game saved. I'll go back and peek around at other factions and see if I can isolate that crash.

Aenlic
07-22-2005, 20:51
Well, using god mode I still get the CTD at the end of any turn after 1395, if I leave the AI turned on. I've stopped building production and unit production for all of the factions I which I can control. So it isn't something being built or a unit being produced by one of those factions. If I turn off the AI, using the "I" key, then the game runs fine, either manually or using the "A" key to autorun all of the years frm then on. Of course, with the AI off, nothing moves and the only new units which appear are princesses and heirs and those units and buildings in the queues I can't control. If I turn the AI back on, I get a CTD immediately after the hitting the end turn, no matter which year after 1395. Something that the AI is doing is causing the CTD; but it's nothing I can see using god mode and scenic tour. I've tried everything I can think of doing. Turning off everything, autosave, unit cleanup, emptying queues for all factions I can control, stopping all unit movement I can control. Sorry. I'll start up a fresh campaign and try again from the start, to see what happens near that point in the game.

On the subject of the names. They appear to be an artifact from CA. The original names.txt contains the exact same errors; but only in the names within the [] brackets. They show correct in the {} brackets. So under the Hungarian surnames it shows, as copied and pasted directly from the unmodded CA version of names.txt:

["AndrNs"] {"András"}
["LNszlX"] {"László"}
["BQla"] {"Béla"}
["KNlmNn"] {"Kálmán"}
["Geza"] {"Geza"}
["Samuel"] {"Samuel"}
["IstvNn"] {"István"}
["OttX"] {"Ottó"}
["KNroly"] {"Károly"}

and so on. It's definitely the vowels with accent marks. But it's not something that happened in your mod; because all of the accent marks in your Portuguese names came out just fine. It's CA's fault and I'll bet it's duplicated in every mod. At least they show correctly in the {} bracketed lists, so fixing them to the correctly accented vowels is easy, if somewhat time-consuming.

poirot
07-23-2005, 01:28
Why are all of the new factions with flags and shields of the Almohads?

Aenlic
07-23-2005, 03:55
Look about 5 paragraphs down in Wes's opening post in this thread. There are placeholder graphics for the new factions and units, etc while we beta test the mod. Once everything is working to Wes's specs, then we'll get the completed product which will have a correct map, and all of the correct graphics and names.


Wes, I have no idea what was causing the immediate CTD after an end turn. I started up a new campaign as the Scots, had the same type of CTD in year 1325; but I couldn't duplicate it after I restarted from an autosave a few turns earlier and played all the way to 1450 with no CTD's. It's something that is happening just after the end turn and before the faction leaders' graphics pop up and the the new turn starts. I'm not familiar enough with how the game works to know what goes on during that period.

poirot
07-23-2005, 05:15
I am playing the Golden Horde right now and I notice the following problems:

1, No inns

2, Cannot build ships

3, No emissaries

Aenlic
07-23-2005, 11:36
Poirot, inns can only be built in specific provinces. That's one of the changes that MedMod makes from most mods. There is an excel file called v4_stats.xls in the total war/medieval total war/charts and readmes directory with much info that will answer your questions. You'll also find the faction descriptions, unit descriptions and a newbie guide in word format. If you haven't played one of the earlier versions of MedMd IV, then you really should read all of this info. MedMod is quite a bit different from the usual mod or the original game. Inns and mercenaries are restricted. You can only build units in the "homeland" provinces for your faction (explained in that Excel file, which shows homelands for each faction). Unlike the unmodded game and most mods, you can't just conquer a province and start building your troops there with the proper buildings, that includes ships. As for an emissary, not all factions start off with an emissary, like in the normal game; so, you're going to have to build one in your unit queue. Khazar has a royal palace at the start for the Golden Horde. Not all factions start with ships, either. If you want ships, you're going to need a shipyard built first. The Crimea or Levidia would be a good choice.

It's a fun mod; but it does take some getting used to before you'll be confortable with the major changes to the way things work. Alt-tabbing or using the Windows key to minimize the game and check the various info files in the charts and readmes folder is definitely needed until you're familiar with the various changes, and even after.

poirot
07-23-2005, 12:59
I get the rest, but for Golden Horde I don't have an emissary icon to CLICK. I noticed that only VI original factions have emissaries. Even if I have a royal palace, I can only train assassins, spies, and shamans. No emissaries.

Thanks for the tips!

Deutschordensritter
07-23-2005, 13:18
I was really pleasantly surprised when I saw that MedMod IV would see the light. I have played two previous versions of MedMod and overall, especially the SP campaign balance in mind, MedMod is the best mod available for TW series(best mod setting/idea would be the Reconquista, though). I have tried BKB Super Mod and XL as well, liked them very much, but in the end, the gameplay in those mods tend to be pretty much same as with the original.(=lack of challenge mainly because AI cannot build effective units enough and also lack of historical atmosphere because of too many shared units between the factions.)

I would still play MedMiod 3.14, but lack of Genoese/Venitian distinction and Teutonic Order are the reasons why I play both BKB Supermod and XL(latter because of working GA mode) campaigns instead of it. Hopefully Glorious Achievments will work(at least with original factions) when the final version of Medieval Mod IV comes out, as "conquer the whole world" campaigns tend to get boring after a few games.

As for beta testing, I cannot be much of help since MedMod IV crashes to desktop every time after I hit the enter or press the end turn button. No matter which faction I play, i'ts always CTD after the end turn. I have tried to uninstall the game, get rid of all MTW folders, did the fresh install(with VI + 2.01 patch), then MedMod IV beta, but no chance to continue the game after the first turn.

Aenlic
07-24-2005, 00:53
Poirot, my deepest apologies. You are correct. Even with a royal palace in Khazar, the horde can't build emissaries for some reason. This is definitely one for Wes to check. I haven't played the horde faction yet. So, it's the same with ships as well, after you build a shipyard? Inns can only be built in those special mercenary provinces, the closest to the Horde being Georgia, which the Horde already owns at the start, and Livonia and Volhynia.

Aenlic
07-24-2005, 00:58
Deutschordensritter, perhaps it's a resolution problem. Have you tried setting the strategic map resolution to 1024 x 768 instead of the default 800 x 600? Also try turning off all of the options at the top of the map, like autosave, etc. I only get the CTD very rarely, but I have played some games entirely without one.

We'll have to wait and see what Wes comes up with for ideas on this.

Aenlic
07-24-2005, 03:01
Ok, went all the way up to master shipbuilder in both Novgorod and Khazar with the Golden Horde, no ships can be built by the Horde, and no emissaries. Good catch, Poirot! Ihad no trouble with building inns in Volhynia, Livonia, Georgia and Poland.

This presents a problem for the Horde. They can't get a complete win without ships to conquer the islands, and without emissaries they can't propose to princesses to keep their line going.

The Horde also seems way overpowered. I took out the Russians, the Lithuanians, the Teutonic Order, the Poles, the Bulgarians and the Hungarians by 1355 and most of the HRE (it was left with only a part of the French it had conquered), the Danes (except for Gotland which I couldn't reach without ships), half of the Byztantines (down through Achaea to Constantinpole and Nicaea and most of the Turks by 1380. At that point, I had to stop expanding to protect my sea borders with troops; since I had no ships to cover them. This was doing only automatic battles, as well. I think maybe either the opening unit numbers or the opening economics for them need a bit of a tweak downwards. I was wondering why they were so powerful when I was trying the Scots and turned on god mode and saw a similar situation by the 1390's fr the Horde with the AI playing it.

Aenlic
07-24-2005, 23:05
Poirot and anyone else, I have a temporary solution to the no emissaries or ships (except for the carrack which needs both compass and master shipbuilder) for the Golden Horde. You're going to need an editor for the unit_prod file. The downloads page here on totalwar.org has Gnome's editor. It'll work just fine. Run Gnome's editor and open the file MM_Full_unit_prod.txt in the directory medieval total war directory for MedModIV.

Go down to row 233 and across to column 50. Since we're only dealing with Late era at this time, you want to only make changes to late era ships - that would be Cog to Carrack. Since Chernigov can have a cog, it seems reasonable to allow the Horde to as well. So at the end of the line in row 233, column 50 right after FN_CHERNIGOV add a comma then FN_GOLDEN_HORDE before the end quotes. You can also add the ability to make a caravel in row 236. There, you click on row 236, row 50 to open the entire line, and right after FN_TEUTONIC add the same comma then FN_GOLDEN_HORDE before the end quote.

For the emissaries, it requires only a small change to row 240, column 54. You'll see there that emissaries are enabled only for Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim. We just need to add a comma and PAGAN after the MUSLIM and before the end quote. It should look exactly like the lines for Spy and Assasin above it. Then save the file.

These changes will allow the Horde to build the appropriate ships as soon as they have a level 3 shipyard, without having to wait for the compass event and then build a master shipbuilder. And emissaries may be built at any Horde royal palace.

Big_John
07-25-2005, 01:34
thanks aenlic, you're doing some great beta-testing! if i can find some time to play this game, i'll try to help out in the future.

WesW
07-25-2005, 21:32
Guess who spent his weekend working on map files?
At least they are finished, and new updates of all three portions have been uploaded to the webpage.
I hope these are the final versions of the map files. All the new names have been added and removed as necessary, and I have adjusted the placement of the castles and units so everything looks nice. I even adjusted a few of the original settings where they were annoying, such as Ile de France and Franconia. I'm really happy with how the land names worked out, since I had to copy and paste in individual letters from other names to form them. The ocean work was a pain, as usual, but I did the best I could, unless I wanted to get really detailed, and it wasn't worth that much more effort for the small aestetic (sp?) improvement.

That said, I would really like help with the faction graphics. If I use the ones from BKB's mod, it will help, but there are a few that still need to be made. It would be nice if someone who has done this before, or is good with graphics programs would volunteer to take this off my hands. I made a stab at it myself, but graphics aren't where my talent lies, unfortunately.

Deutschordensritter, you probably have the initial files I posted, which had a CTD bug on the first turn. That has been corrected, so get this new update.

Aenlic, I don't know what would be causing the CTD's you have experienced. Now that I have the maps done, I plan to start my own game, so maybe I can find it myself.

I also added starting Emissaries and Princesses to the game.

The things you have noticed with the Horde are not bugs, though I had forgotten to mention them in the readmes. I added this section to the Unit notes Readme, which I hope makes everything clear:

"The Horde cannot build ships, as they are designed to be more of a force of nature than a traditional faction. This means that you cannot conquer the world as the Horde, but then the Horde are too overpowered to offer any kind of challenge for the player to control. They are available to you, but they are designed to be akin to the Big Boss enemy you fight at the end of the game.
Also, neither they nor the Chernigovians can produce Princesses or build Emissaries, as the Horde weren’t known for their negotiating skills, either. (Nothing against the Chernigovians, but they are also Pagans, which lumped them in with the Horde for these restrictions.) Playtesting revealed that the Horde would happily sign treaties and alliances if given diplomats, which is not what the Horde should be doing in this game."

Aenlic
07-25-2005, 23:47
That's great news! Looks like I'll be spending the evening playing with the new maps. Thanks, Wes!

I wasn't sure if the Horde lack of ships and emissaries was intentional. That's why I posted the info on how to change it. Now that I know it's intentional and not a bug that crept in, I'm fine with it. It makes perfect sense, with the Horde being so powerful. As the Horde, the AI takes out Russia and Lithuania almost immediately; and it's even easier playing the Horde. I do have one question about not having emissaries, though. Are Pagans hardcoded like Muslims so that they don't need to find wives for the princes? Being dependent on the chance offerings of other faction's princesses for marriage seems like it might leave the Horde vulnerable to a massive revlt without an heir; and, therefore, not available as the end game bad guy such as you envision.

I haven't had any CTD's at all lately. I don't know what caused the initial CTD problem when playing the Russians. I had no such problems as the Almohads, and just the one singular CTD early on while playing the Scots, which never came back when I went back to an earlier autosave. I've been playing lately as the Nordic factions to get a feel for them.


Sadly, I'm extremely deficient in the graphics department, or I'd gladly help with the unit graphics. I'll gladly help in any other way that I can. I'm retired, so I have plenty of time on my hands.


What program do you use for editing your unit_prod and build_prod files? I can get the unit files to load into Gnome's editor; but the building files get a formatting error using Gnome's editor. I tried loading it into Excel, but many of the building descriptions have just spaces rather than using an under_line; so the delimiter tabs and spaces put some buildings like royal palace into the wrong columns.

Aenlic
07-26-2005, 00:01
The map looks great! The lettering came out beautifully and the seas look just fine too. I do have one small question. Shouldn't Languedou be Languedoc? Everything else is perfect.

farfarer
07-26-2005, 00:24
Wes - something seems to have happened to knights of St George and Gascon Knights. In battle they were flickering, horses looked empty from some angles, arms in mid-air etc. Didn't notice this before the CTD was fixed, so maybe it's a by-product of the changes made then? Let me know if noone else has got this - but I haven't changed anything myself, so I would be surprised.

Big_John
07-26-2005, 00:32
i must agree, the map looks fantastic. and assuming that "langudou" is a typo, i just copied the C in franconia over the U; it looks fine to me. i would post a pic, but i'm not sure if WesW would mind. anyway, it's easy enough to do.

aenlic, i opened up MM_Full_build_prod.txt in a freeware spreadsheet called "easy spreadsheet" (part of the easyoffice suite), renamed it and saved it. the gnome editor opened that duplicate file without a hitch.

Aenlic
07-26-2005, 05:24
Ah, ok, Big John. I have Excel, so I'll try opening in that, renaming it and saving it and see how that works. All I have for viewing the maptex2.tga is irfanview; so I don't think I can fix the map myself.

I just finished a complete game (well to 1453 anyway) as the Danes. No problems at all. I'll try out the English tomorrow t see if I can duplicate the flickering that farfarer witnessed.

Also, the stats for caravels are carracks are something I thought t ask about. Did you intend for carracks to be weaker than caravels? It seems backwards to me for caravels to be 40 30 3 and the higher tech carracks to only be 20 20 2. Just wanted to make sure that this was intentional. Carracks don't come into play much, since they need the highest shipyard and the game doesn't last long enough to build more than a few before 1453.

Big_John
07-26-2005, 07:08
Ah, ok, Big John. I have Excel, so I'll try opening in that, renaming it and saving it and see how that works. All I have for viewing the maptex2.tga is irfanview; so I don't think I can fix the map myself.what do you think i used to do it? ~:)

i just drew a selection box around the C in franconia (i thought it looked like a close terrain match) bounding the red letter pixels (i think it was ~10x12 pixels) and copied the selection. then i drew a selection box over the U in languedou and pasted the C over it. saved the image and violà. though, i haven't tested it in-game yet.


edit: i've played the game with my editted version of maptex2.tga. looks fine. also, i can confirm a graphical bug with the knights of st. george (flickering is as good a description as any).

one question, why do the french recieve constant grants of 1000 florins from the pope? is this to reflect the french relationship with the papacy? was this part of vanilla mtw (i haven't played vanilla in years)?

Aenlic
07-26-2005, 15:32
Ok, I'll give that copy and paste a shot.

The 1000 florin grants are common to all Catholic factions that stay on the Pope's good side and do things the Pope likes, such as attacking excommunicated factions. It's hard coded into the game, I believe. It's always been a part of plain vanilla MTW.

Deutschordensritter
07-26-2005, 17:53
Why are all of the new factions with flags and shields of the Almohads?
New version seems to work fine(=no more 1st turn CTD), but I'm also interested about those shields. It seems that every new faction has Almohad shields. Is this intentional with beta version or is this a bug?

Big_John
07-26-2005, 19:33
wes hasn't done the new faction graphics yet. he needs some help, so feel free to volunteer. ~;)

as to the 1000 florins, it was odd, because playing as the french, i never attacked anyone except the english, for which the pope warned me, but i kept recieving 1000 florins every other turn, or so. i could be imagining things, but it seems like the french get this grant more frequently than the other catholic factions that i've played as.

WesW
07-27-2005, 01:29
The flickering cavalry is due to a mistake I made when I switched their eras last week. It doesn't affect gameplay or abilities, but if you want to fix it, find KnightsofGascon in the units text. Change the 4 to a 7 where it has: CUSTOM4, YES, YES, KHorse .
The Saint George unit is right below, and there you change the 7 to 4. That's it.

I use edit plus for my work. It lets you create a syntax file which color-codes all the entries in it, when you set it as the default for text files. Over the years I have built up an extensive file, customized for the game texts, and it is invaluable for finding entries and marking bugs.
Email me, and I'll send it to you. I think it's a much better method than using template systems like the Gnome editor.

The settings for the Carrack are correct. It's designed primarily for the High era, when it's the only ship capable of sailing over deep water, and thus exiting the Med. It's primarily there for the player when he wants to completely conquer the map as one of the Mediterranean factions.

I was worried about misspelling Languedoc when I was making it on the map, but I was worried about the u in gue. That may have subconsciously made me screw up the end of it. It so happened that I was looking at the maps I used as references a couple of hours ago, and noticed that I have Trans-danubia and Pannonia switched, so I guess I'll fix those sometime and upload a new file.

I actually spent a long time yesterday adjusting the provincial borders, mostly replacing my fiddling with the original LMB designs. The stuff I do just never looks as clean as the professional work. The only thing that was significant, though, were the expansion of Mazovia and the reconfiguring of Tyrolia and Carniola.
Those two encompass the Alps much better now, and should give a better impression of their purpose, which is control of the mountain passes. I think the addition of such strategic locals is really going to add more depth to the game.

Big_John
07-27-2005, 01:48
i think your map work looks as good as the CA stuff. but that's just my opinion. ~;)

hey wes, if i wanted to try my hand ay making shields for the new factions, how exactly would i go about it? i have readbif, but it seems rather limited.. any suggestions?

Aenlic
07-27-2005, 02:46
I, too, like your maps just fine, Wes. They look great.

Ok, thanks for the clarification on the carrack. The Danes can build both caravel and carrack; but the caravel comes sooner by one shipyard; and it too can make the deep sea journey. That's what confused me.

I have not had any CTD's in the last few days. Beats me what caused it, initially.

I figured out what was causing my Excel loads of the building production to be off by a column. It was seeing the spaces in the text string names for buildings like military academy and royal palace as delimiting points. Easily fixed.

poirot
07-30-2005, 09:00
Hmm

There seems to be way too many peasants in the standard armies, while the rebels and the re-emerging factions sport heavy cav and infantry. Seems to be less realistic to have the rebels and re-emerging factions sport elite troops.

Oh, the seige cannon crew is too powerful - a seige cannon crew of 12 men single handly defeated an entire unit of Mongol Heavy Cav!

WesW
07-31-2005, 07:55
Hmm

There seems to be way too many peasants in the standard armies, while the rebels and the re-emerging factions sport heavy cav and infantry. Seems to be less realistic to have the rebels and re-emerging factions sport elite troops.

Oh, the seige cannon crew is too powerful - a seige cannon crew of 12 men single handly defeated an entire unit of Mongol Heavy Cav!
I looked through the units settings, and I agree that peasant rebellions shouldn't have elite troops, so I took them out. I disagree about the rebels and re-emerging factions, however. I think that both of them have always had elite troops in their mixes.

The AI gets an accuracy bonus when targeting your troops in the field, which probably accounted for that encounter. I don't think I have done anything to the artillery stats.

You shouldn't be seeing any peasants in the AI armies, unless they are the result of rebellions.

Aenlic
07-31-2005, 08:23
Wes, I've been researching various flags and emblems in the hopes of helping with the unit colors. Frankly, Viking Horde's flags for his XL mod are the most accurate for all factions. The only quibble I might have would be replacing the Grand Duchy flag for Lithuania from the 13th century with the stylized yellow "Tower of Gediminas" on red from slightly earlier. But the Vytis flag Viking Horde uses is certainly fine, too.

I think the only faction missing from VH's flags would be for the Almoravids. BKB came about as close as it's possible to get to the plain white flag used by the Almoravids with the Quranic shahada written on it (like that on the Saudi flag) in black. The verse won't scale well, so it looks like BKB just used the last bit of lettering. Seems to work fine.

If Viking Horde is willing to let you use his, then that problem is solved. They are all very nicely rendered.

Big_John
07-31-2005, 10:42
hey guys, i've decided to help wes out with the graphics. assuming wes can use graphics from BKB's and VH's mods, i'm going to try my hand at the factions that aren't covered. i'm just about to have a look at what VH and BKB did for their graphics. i'm aiming for quasi-historicality for the flags. as for the almoravids, i've already made the graphics, because i didn't really like the look of the existing one (BKBs?). but it was just my preference, and i didn't have a good idea, so i slapped a koranic "allāhu" on a white background. here's what a couple of the shields look like:
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6044/clipboard020rc.gif

what do you all think? is it lame? is it offensive? should wes just use BKBs if he gets permission?


ok, i just looked at VH's graphics, i really like his new "glory" shields, and if wes can use those, he should. of the other shield types (e.g. castle flags, battle flags, stratmap shields), the ones that i think could be changed are (note: i don't know if wes will implement all of these factions):

almohads: i can't find out much about the flag beyond a plain white flag. i have an idea for putting a rosette on a white field; i saw a wargamer do that to represent the al-muwahiddun. here's a prelim mock-up. thoughts?
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/3190/clipboard018dq.gif

burgundians: use the "ancien" coat of arms, the alternating gold and blue diagonals (maybe leave the red border off).

byzantines: either use the gold cross on a red field with the "beta" firestalls:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8472/clipboard031jb.gif
or use the double headed eagle, though that came after the fourth crusade, iirc.

denmark: use 3 blue lions "passant guardant" on a gold field.

egypt: might have an overhaul in mind for the egyptian faction. need to confer with wes some more.

golden horde: use the red crescent over a grey disk on a white field.

irish: use brian boru's flag (gold "woman harp" on a blue field).

lithuanians: gold "towers of gediminas" on a red field.

novgorod: don't have a good idea yet, but the current one is the modern coat of arms...

serbia: maybe use the purported red double-headed figure (eagle?) on yellow field from the "Monumenta Cartographica Jugoslaviae II"?

turkey: similar to egypt, i have an idea to overhaul this faction a bit.



any thoughts?

poirot
07-31-2005, 11:04
Wes, would it hassle you to add the Ilkhanate as well? It would make the late period more interesting.

poirot
07-31-2005, 11:06
hey guys, i've decided to help wes out with the graphics. assuming wes can use graphics from BKB's and VH's mods, i'm going to try my hand at the factions that aren't covered. i'm just about to have a look at what VH and BKB did for their graphics. i'm aiming for quasi-historicality for the flags. as for the almoravids, i've already made the graphics, because i didn't really like the look of the existing one (BKBs?). but it was just my preference, and i didn't have a good idea, so i slapped a koranic "allāhu" on a white background. here's what a couple of the shields look like:
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6044/clipboard020rc.gif

what do you all think? is it lame? is it offensive? should wes just use BKBs if he gets permission?


ok, i just looked at VH's graphics, i really like his new "glory" shields, and if wes can use those, he should. of the other shield types (e.g. castle flags, battle flags, stratmap shields), the ones that i think could be changed are (note: i don't know if wes will implement all of these factions):

almohads: i can't find out much about the flag beyond a plain white flag. i have an idea for putting a rosette on a white field; i saw a wargamer do that to represent the al-muwahiddun. here's a prelim mock-up. thoughts?
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/3190/clipboard018dq.gif

burgundians: use the "ancien" coat of arms, the alternating gold and blue diagonals (maybe leave the red border off).

byzantines: either use the gold cross on a red field with the "beta" firestalls:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8472/clipboard031jb.gif
or use the double headed eagle, though that came after the fourth crusade, iirc.

denmark: use 3 blue lions "passant guardant" on a gold field.

egypt: might have an overhaul in mind for the egyptian faction. need to confer with wes some more.

golden horde: use the red crescent over a grey disk on a white field.

irish: use brian boru's flag (gold "woman harp" on a blue field).

lithuanians: gold "towers of gediminas" on a red field.

novgorod: don't have a good idea yet, but the current one is the modern coat of arms...

serbia: maybe use the purported red double-headed figure (eagle?) on yellow field from the "Monumenta Cartographica Jugoslaviae II"?

turkey: similar to egypt, i have an idea to overhaul this faction a bit.



any thoughts?

I like the current shield for the Golden Horde, although a shield with a blue wolf is better. The color banner of the Mongols under Genghis Khan is blue, representative of the legend of the wolf and the deer.

poirot
07-31-2005, 11:10
An early Mongol flag circa 1310

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8919/mn13101vf.gif

Aenlic
07-31-2005, 11:25
Looks great, Big John!

The best info I've been able to find are here:

http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/alexflags/ Nice info here. This is where I saw the Towers of Gediminas for Lithuania.

http://www.nationalflaggen.de/flags-of-the-world/flags/search.html

Also, here, for historical discussions and some pics. Use the search feature for individual factions. This is the site that discusses the Almoravids and Almohads.

I think the allahu is fine in place of the much longer shahada ("There is only one God and Mohammed is his prophet") which the Almoravids used as a battle standard. It looks very nicely done, Big John. Getting the lettering to scale properly came out nice.

The Almohads seems to present some confusion, especially since many medieval writers simply made stuff up for areas they didn't really know. Such was the case, it seems, for the Almohads. But historically, I think the yellow interlocking squares on a red background would work; since that was the flag used by the Marinids who succeeded the Almohads, who supposedly also used it.

For Novgorod, there doesn't seem to be any decent historical basis to use. There is a pic on the FOTW site for Novgorod of a 16th century battle flag which is a white saltire on blue, with a smaller red saltire in the center. That might do.

For Byzantium, the Paleologos double-headed eagle is probably a bit too late, though it'll do. It's certainly in the same period, just high or late. Perhaps the standard of Emperor Nikoforos Fokas from the 10th century? It's a variation of one of Constantine's battle flags. A white Chi-Rho on top of a white couped cross on a blue background.

The red double-headed eagle for Serbia sounds good. That's the oldest known for the Serbian Empire.

All the rest sound great. I think for Egypt, CA just combined the gold flag of the Mamluk's with the crescent and star of the Ottoman period. It's another area devoid of historical information.

Big_John
07-31-2005, 17:58
thanks for the feedback guys! poirot, for the horde, all the (possibly dubious) sources i have indicate something like this http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1686/gold8mw.png

remember, the golden horde isn't "the mongols" per se, but a unification of the white and blue successor kingdoms. btw, having the ilkhans in the late era is a cool idea! it probably won't be implemented for the first release. but maybe wes will look at it for later releases?

aenlic, good call on the almohads, that rosette was pretty fanciful, lol. but i'm thinking black or orange interlocking squares on a white field would be better?

i'm familiar with both those sites (and many more ~;)). for novgorod, what about the yellow and blue flag shown below the 16th century battle standard? i could put it on a white field to retain the triangular shape.

so, are my byzantine flags no good? the double-headed eagle was adopted after the fourth crusade, which is the starting point of the high era. while "2 out of 3 ain't bad", i wouldn't mind using a more accurate flag for the early period at least (though, i'm not sure what i have is more accurate).

there actually is a bit of info out there on egyptian and turkish flags, but i'm waiting to see what wes wants to do with those factions before proceeding.

keep it coming guys!
~:cheers:

Aenlic
07-31-2005, 21:03
Well, for the Almohads, it would almost certainly have to be a red background. As far as I can determine, only the Almoravids used the white background. From the Almohads on, it seems to have been always red. The only argument from the various "authorities" seems to be what was on that background. The checkerboard pattern seems to have been a mistaken use of the Marrakech arms, and the scissors seem entirely fanciful. So the interlocking squares of the Marinids, that look essentially like a Star of David, seemed the most accurate for the Almohads. The question would then be what color for them.

For Novgorod, it seems like anything is possible. Your idea sounds fine to me. The yellow and blue on a triangle may be as accurate was we can get.

Byzantium is a problem for no good reason. I just can't believe that we don't have accurate information on the flags used prior to the Paleologos double eagle. We know practically everything else about every emperor, from his wives, concubines, and indigestion to who thought he was too gassy and rude; but no one seems to know what flag was used between Nikoforos Fokas in 969 and Michael VIII after the 4th Crusade in 1261. Since Michael's flag is the most well-known and is well within our time period, it makes sense to go with the double eagle. I don't think we're going to find anything more accurate for the early period.

I did find a nice flag for the Armenians while rumaging around on the internet. It's the standard of the Rubenian Dynasty from 1080 -1375, and thus fits perfectly within our time frame. Found it here:

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/gifs/12.gif The colors are a bit faded, but it should be a red lion on a white flag.

It all looks great.

Big_John
07-31-2005, 21:55
i know what you mean about the byzantines, aenlic. i have no problem with the double-headed eagle, it appears to have been used by nobles in byzantium (though not by the emperor, nor to symbolize the state) before the reconquest of constantinople in 1261 anyway. just fyi, though, here's a bit about the cross figure i used in that mock-up.

As for the tetragrammatic cross, even though it was considered at the time by some to be the arms of the Paleologue family, it was in fact the arms of the Byzantine empire. The motif of a croos between four objects is derived from Constantine's labarum and has long figured on Byzantine coins, since the 6th c.

The B's of the tetragrammatic cross have been mostly interpreted as flints or firestones (purekbola in Greek), but also as letters. It is possible that they were initially letters, and later assimilated to firestones. The interpretation of the four B's standing for the motto "Basileus Basileon Basileuon Basileonton" (king of kings, ruling over those who rule) may well be posterior.http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/byzantin.htm

i like it mostly because it looks similar to the latin empire's flag. it almost looks like the crusaders took the tetragrammatic cross of the byzantines and replaced the "betas" with crosses. as if to say, "we've 'christianized' you!" ~D

could you point me to a source for the almohads using red flags? i thought i read that they used primarily white flags...

the rubenid flag is pretty much what vikinghorde used for the armenians. it looks pretty good, imo.

btw, here's what i've done for the chernigovians (which wes may use in place of the cumans). the symbol is the ensign of prince mstislav, founder of the principality of chernigov:
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5921/clipboard019xm.gif

Aenlic
07-31-2005, 22:53
I used the FOTW site for my interpretation of the Almohad flag. http://www.nationalflaggen.de/flags-of-the-world/flags/ma_hist.html#summ

While the mention of the interlaced squares used by the Marinids and Almohads before them comes in the section on white flags, later on you'll see that the Marinid flag is later stated as being the yellow squares on a red background. And all of the other flags seem to also be red. Although this site states that the Alaouites were the first to use a red flag in the 17rth century, this is contradicted by other places on the same site. Specifically, the banner of the Moorish Guard of Henry IV of Castille in the 1450's was a white six-pointed star and crescent on a red background. I suppose it can go either way on this, since the most certain information is really only that the eight-pointed interlaced squares emblem was the Almohad favorite. Backgrounds are probably secondary, and it might show much better on white anyway.

The Chernigovian flag looks great, BTW!

The cross with B's looks good too. I just wondered how well it would scale down onto battle shields and such.

Big_John
07-31-2005, 23:15
ah ok. maybe we can make it black triangles on an orange flag, and that way we don't have to change the faction colors! ~D thanks for your input, i'll try to find out more about almohad symbols.

you may be right about the byz flag.. i'll take a look at it in-game at some point. here's what the battle flag looks like, 180% zoom:
http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/5237/byz26ve.gif

WesW
08-01-2005, 18:22
Ah, historical strategy games, where men can exercise their inner nerds to their heart's content. ~;)

Big John and I have been trading private messages regarding the faction flags, but since the discussion has grown here, and some points came up there which I intended to discuss publicly, I have pasted in some sections of our exchanges below, so we can keep everything together here in this thread.

Wes:
You have certainly run with the topic here. If I had known you were so eager, I would have given you more info and specifications.
Most all of the stuff you proposed can be done, like different names for the Egyptians for each campaign, and even different flags, though the flags would be a lot of trouble, actually.

John:
what is difficult about having different flags in different eras? is this anything i can help you with modding? i don't have any experience, but i'm.. eager.

New reply:
Well, in typical CA fashion, some of the flag links are hardcoded to the faction's name, while some are editable in the campaign files. The hardcoded ones are some of the most important, too, like castle and battle flags.
Therefore, in order to change flags from era (campaign) to era, you have to make entirely new factions, and this runs into the 31 faction limitation for each campaign. To have more overall factions than that, you have to make separate unit, building, hero, and faction-specific files for each campaign. Though tedious, it's actually not all that time-consuming to do once you decide upon everything. However, it is something that you shouldn't get into until all the bugs and such are solved, which is why I wouldn't want to do it until after the first release.

Wes:
As far as changing faction names to the local spelling, this was brought up last year when we were formulating the map, factions, etc., and I think that it would cross the line between historical flavor and confusion or clutter. Localized names for units helps to add variety and specificity when you have 20 versions of mounted sergeants, but faction names really wouldn't do anything, because people would just translate them into the English names in their heads and go on as before.

John:
no prob, it's just something i would like personally. you're right that most people would probably be confused by it. btw, is it difficult to mod the faction names? i would definitely like to do that, for my own copy of your mod.

New reply:
No, it's not hard at all. Just open up the Medmod default faction specific file in the Loc\eng folder, and change the names in the various lists. Just be careful not to delete any entries or re-arrange the names.

Quote:
Here are the twelve new factions. The others were basically there to take up provinces which would otherwise be rebels, but I think the system of barring the rebels from constructing units better suits my aim.

FN_ALMORAVID
FN_BULGARIAN
FN_CHERNIGOVIAN or CUMAN
FN_GENOESE
FN_KIEVAN
FN_LATIN
FN_LITHUANIAN
FN_OUTREMER
FN_PORTUGUESE
FN_SCOTTISH
FN_SWEDISH
FN_TEUTONIC

The eras page of the Excel spreadsheet lists provincial ownership by era, though I have made some changes for the Late campaign.

John:
check out my post in the medmod thread. there are really only a few that, imo, need some re-doing. do you have a timeline in mind? do you need graphics from me by a deadline or anything?

New reply:
No, there is no set deadline. I don't want to delay the public release because of improved graphics, but by the time I am ready for that you'll be studying for the LSAT, so there is no rush.

Wes:
That said, I wouldn't mind having the Serbs back in, and I have been researching the Bohemians, though this would be something to discuss in the forums. They wouldn't be in the first release, though, since no more factions can be added without going to era-specific files ala the XL mod.

Wes:
However, your comments have got me thinking about combining Scotland and Ireland into one faction, possibly with Wales too, until they and Ireland are taken over by the English. They would be a Celtic Confederacy, similar to the Genoese. It would stretch things historically, but might be a nice enhancement to gameplay by making English expansion into those lands much harder and more historically accurate.

John:
i have to say i don't like that idea. but, if you want to go down that route, do you have an idea for graphics for a pan-celtic faction? gameplay wise, you probably have a point, but i wouldn't like the ahistoricality of it (but i may be off base in that regard anyway). btw, do the genoese represent a confederacy? i thought they were an independent republic at the time?

New reply:
The Genoese faction, and the Venetians too, are actually an amalgamon of the patchwork of city-states that existed in Italy during the Medieval age. You can check out any map from this period to see what I mean.

The area covered by the game was divided into hundreds of fiefdoms which were at least semi-independent during this time, so most of the factions in the game are given control over areas which were actually vassels or loosely allied. For the central European factions, they are given control of some areas that were completely independent.
This is where you have to step back and remember that this is a game and not a historical sim. I love making the game as historical as possible, but the first priority has to be on gameplay. The game, and many mods, represent this patchwork by starting the factions with one or two provinces and surrounding them with rebels, which I feel is bad for gameplay for multiple reasons.

As for a Celtic confederacy, I would use the graphics from the Viking Campaign for the Celts. With the way things are now, the first thing I do as the English is consolidate my hold on the Isles, so I can concentrate on the continent. Historically, the English often did this as well, which was why the Scots rose up so often. If they managed to defeat the holding force in Northumbria, they could rampage at will until the Continental forces were recalled. As it is, you never have this happen to you because Scotland, Wales and Ireland are isolated and thus easy to pick off.
All three provinces have their ports in the Irish Sea, so you could give them a couple of ships to connect them and you would have a force capable of offering some unified resistance, especially in the Early era, which is the most popular campaign.
Thinking this through has got me wondering about making land bridges to Ireland from Scotland and Wales. Does this sound like a good idea?

WesW
08-01-2005, 19:05
Wes, would it hassle you to add the Ilkhanate as well? It would make the late period more interesting.

Unfortunately, I can't add any more new factions for this first release. I don't like splitting up the Mongols, either, since I want them to be strong.
I have decided to add the Chernigovians to the Late campaign, however, and give them Moldavia. What areas did the Ilkhanate control? If they bordered Moldavia, I might combine them to create a more viable faction.

Russ Mitchell
08-01-2005, 19:36
Wes, Chernigov was wiped off the map by the Mongols - the only reason the Muscovites ascended to any importance is that they bent the knee to the Mongols, rather than resisting and being wiped out as were (the VASTLY more powerful) Kiev and Chernigov. Chernigov doesn't exist in Late, and when it did exist, it sure as heck wasn't located in Moldavia. That's like putting the Cumans in Burgundy.

poirot
08-01-2005, 19:52
The Ilkhanate controlled Persia, Mesopotomia, and eastern syria. The Sultanate of Rum and Armenia were its vassal states. The XL mod has a new province (carved from Syria) called Mesopotomia, and the BKB mod has the IlKhanates as a playable faction in the Late Period. However, BKB had the Ilkhans as a Muslim faction and the Golden Horde as a Pagan faction; while that is true to some extent, the Ilkhans actually persecuted Muslims, while like another forumer pointed out, the Golden Horde after Berke adapted Islam as its state religion. Oh, the Oriental troops (ex. Chinese infantry) should be with the Ilkhans, because Kublai allied with the Ilkhans, while the Ilkhans fought constantly with the neighboring Golden Horde.

Aenlic
08-01-2005, 22:14
Interesting stuff. Thanks, Wes.

On the issue of putting Chernigovians in Moldavia, I have to agree with Russ. However, putting the Cumans there instead is perfectly acceptable, I think. That area was controlled by the Cumans after they pushed out the Pechenegs, from about the beginning of the early era in the game until they were absorbed by Wallachia, NE Bulgaria, and the farthest SW expansion of the Horde territories, sometime in the middle of the late era. Graphics for the Cumans present a problem, though. I haven't been able to find anything specifically Cuman for them. Since they were a Turkic tribe in origin rather than a Rus or Slav tribe, it makes finding a good flag harder.

For your proposed Celtic Confederacy, which I like, a symbol which might be used is the Celtic Cross. The Celtic Catholic Church certainly had as great or greater an influence in those areas than the Roman Catholic Church early on. That would be one unifying force which might create such confederation. Had the Synod of Whitby in Northumbria in 663 gone the other way, England might have gone with the Celtic Rite instead of the Roman, and the history of Europe would be very different today.

Land bridges for Scotland to Ireland to Wales would seem like a good idea if you do go with a Celtic Confederation. As it stands now, Ireland pretty much just sits there undisturbed and non-hostile througout the game in other mods with an Irish faction. You could consider the land bridges to be the Isle of Man, too. Which might open up the possibilty of using the triskelion for the Celtic Confederation symbol, though I prefer the Celtic Cross.

Big_John
08-01-2005, 23:20
russ and aenlic are correct. the principality of chernigov was essentially destroyed in 1239 by the horde. they did exist at the early and high starting points. on your map, wes, it should start with chernigov and ryzan in early and, technically, just chernigov in high. gone in late. though, i don't know what the faction slot considerations are.

as for graphics, so far i've completed the byzantines, the almoravids, the latin empire, chernigovians, kievans and the burgundians. imo, everything except the battle flags looks pretty good. i think i need to make some of the battle flags more schematic. but, what do you guys think (see below)? are they trash? if you have any ideas for improving them, i'm all ears! here are some prelim byzantine graphics in-game. some of the pics are of VHs faction graphics (using the XL mod), for comparison.

campmap flags.
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/692/clipboard019tw.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4307/clipboard024pf.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5102/clipboard035fo.jpg

serbs and armenians from XL for comparison.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2953/clipboard043nj.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1193/clipboard059da.jpg

custom-battle shields.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4683/clipboard071xw.jpg

battle flags; my byz with the venetians from XL.
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7850/clipboard018lz.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3623/clipboard028za.jpg


i'm not really looking for responses to the faction graphic choice itself. i have no problem making/using the double headed eagle that the byz adopted after retaking constantinople. but what i'm really asking about is the quality.


wes, if you implement a 'celtic confederacy' faction, i think aenlic's idea of a celtic cross is as good as any.

Aenlic
08-02-2005, 03:32
Looks great, Big John. The Byzantine graphic scaled very well.

bozkirsovalyesi
08-02-2005, 14:24
medieval great turk emperors flags


golden horde: (1242-1503) 1242-1262 pagan ... 1262-1503 muslim

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/647/fbfbxb5ar.png


avars: (565-835) pagan

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7789/gsgsg6lx.png


timurlu: (1370-1512) muslim

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5825/fgdfbxfb6od.png


gazneli: (1001-1187) muslim

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4883/zzdv3kf.png


harzemshah: (1097-1231) muslim

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3310/cvcvx8ur.png


hazar: (620-965) 620-800 pagan .... 800-965 jews

http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/580/vzvz8bc.png


karahanli: (848-1040) 848-924 pagan 924-1040 muslim


http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8115/fgbfxdb3ai.png


great selcuklu: (1040-1157) muslim

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9541/bbfbd5rf.png


anatolia selcuklu: (1075-1308) muslim

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9677/sadljasdlja6vn.png


ottomans: only early periot (1299-1362) muslim

http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/4554/adsbba3if.png


in medieval turks: (only medieval 476-1453 ... only west asia - europe - north africa)



east europe

sabars 503-568 (north caucasia-lower volga river basins-don river basins) .........pagan
avars 565-835 (hungary-romania-austria-ukraina-slovakia) ..........pagan
bulgars or ogurs 584-665 (ukraina-don river basin) .........pagan
tuna bulgars 661-923 (later slav faction 923-1018) (balkans)........661-864 pagan.. ..864-1018 ortodox
volga bulgars 7. centry-1237 (middle volga river basin) ........pagan.. 921-1237 muslim

hazars 620-965 (north caucasia-lower volga river basin-don river basins-east ukraina) ......... pagan.. ..800-965 jews
peçeneks 889-1091 (ukraina-romania-balkans).......... pagan
kumans 1054-1242 (or polovtsi or fallben) (north türkistan-north caucasia-lower volga river basin-don river basins-ukraina-romania) .........pagan
altinordu 1242-1503 (or golden horde. not mongol.. turk faction) (east europe) 1242-1262 pagan ......1262-1503 muslim
kazan 1437-1556 (old volga bulgarians) (middle volga river basin) .......muslim

Big_John
08-02-2005, 16:29
thanks for the info bozkirsovalyesi, that's a big list!

for the first release, i don't think wes will be changing the muslim setup excet to add the almoravids (in early). once wes moves to era specific maps (as far as i understand) he'll be able to implement more factions. what i would like to do is have two era-specific turk factions, the selçuk sultanate of rum in early and high, and the ottomans in late. i want to split the egyptians into 3 factions, the fatimid caliphate in early, the ayyubid sultanate in high, and the mamluk bahriyya sultante in late.

i don't know if wes will be able to do that, but that's what i'm hoping for.

Eternal Champion
08-02-2005, 17:09
This all is quite facinating and can hardly wait to see the finished product.

@ Big John - Your graphics look good, keep up the good work.

@ Wes - I also like your idea of a Celtic Confederacy as this would significantly enhance game play. I also agree that enhancing game play is what mods are truly all about. The real genius of a mod, if you will, comes with the game balancing and AI enhancement of each one. This is the real magic for my money.

Big_John
08-02-2005, 18:43
thanks for the compliments ont he graphics guys! :thumbsup:

i will endeavor to keep it up. :knight:

WesW
08-06-2005, 08:55
OMG, the details just never end with this mod. Expect a big update about Monday.

There are some aspects of the new factions that weren't finished by the group that fashioned them last year, and I could really use some help from those of you with specific knowledge of these groups.
Basically, the research members couldn't find info on appropriate titles for the faction offices for these factions:

FN_ALMORAVID
FN_BULGARIAN
FN_CHERNIGOVIAN
FN_CUMAN
FN_GENOESE
FN_KIEVAN
FN_LATIN
FN_LITHUANIAN
FN_SCOTTISH
FN_TEUTONIC

The Celts will need new names, too.

There are also some factions with no famous kings and/or heroes. You really need to have historically accurate ones to begin each campaign, and a couple of heroes would be nice, too. E, H and L refer to Early, High and Late eras.

Those with no famous kings are:
Almoravid (E)
Genoese (All 3)
Outremer (H&L)
Bulgarian (H&L)
Chernigovian (E&H)
Cuman (L)

Those with no heroes are:
Novgorods (E)
Teutons (H&L)
Bulgarians (H&L)
Chernigovian (E&H)
Cuman (L)

Also, I have changed the Admiralty to the Repository, a place to store such items as the crown jewels along with the royal treasury. It's benefits are Acumen and Loyalty. (The Admiralty was obviously supposed to benefit ships, but I guess CA couldn't get it to work properly.)
I don't have any historical names for this title, other than a reference to the Tower of London for the English. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Aenlic
08-06-2005, 19:57
Now that's a project I can sink my teeth into that doesn't require graphics skills! I'll see what I can dig up for you, Wes. Looking forward to the new update!

Aenlic
08-07-2005, 02:58
Ok, here's my preliminary data for rulers for the factions you indicated above. It's just the basic info, as I'm not familiar enough to attmpe putting it into mod ready form.

Rulers:

Almoravid (E)

Amirs of the Almoravids:

Yusuf ibn Tashufin 1061-1106
Ali ibn Yusuf 1106-1142
Tashufin ibn Ali 1142-1146
Ibrahim ibn Tashufin 1146-1146
Ishaq ibn Ali 1146-1147

(Almohad caliphate replaces Almoravids in 1147)

Only found one historical hero for the Almoravids, and he's Catalan!

Compare Reverter, former viscount of Barcelona, after being captured by them, later led the Almoravid armies against the encroaching Almohads until his death in 1144.


Genoese (All 3)

This is going to be problematic. I know that you intend the Genoese to be a sort of Amalgam of the Italian states which weren't Venice; but the western Italian areas were about as unstable politically as it is possible to be. Genoa as an independent entity was really non-existent in the early period. It was a chartered commune, as was Pisa. There were no doges of Genoa until Simone Boccanegra in 1339. Pisa was a Ghibelline commune (supporters of the Holy Roman Emperor over the Papist Guelphs) until 1284, when it essentially switched back and forth between Ghibelline and Guelph communes. At the beginning of our Early era, the Margraves of Tuscany were women, the contessas Beatrice and Matilda; but I suppose you can use the other male margaves of Tuscany for Genoa in Early. The only other relatively stable countries in the area would be Savoy or Parma. They have good lists of leaders for the entire period. I think you'll have to make a choice between the Tuscan Margrave names or the Savoy and Parma counts, or just use generic Italian or Venetian names. Perhaps one of the members here, Fader_it, the maker of the fine Italy TW mod can help.



Outremer (H&L)

High:
(Kings of Cyprus and at times Jerusalem, who were nominal vassals of various Western European overlords in High and Late)

Hugh I 1205-1218
Henry I 1218-1253
Hugh II 1253-1267
Hugh III 1267-1284
John I 1284-1285
Henry II 1285-1324

(Outremer officially ends with the Mamluk capture of Acre in 1291 - the following are just Kings of Cyprus, after that)

Late:

Henry II 1285-1324
Hugh IV 1324-1359
Peter I 1359-1364
Peter II 1369-1382
James I 1382-1398
Janus I 1398-1432
James II 1432-1458



Bulgarian (H&L)

High:

Kalojan I 1197-1207
Boril I 1207-1218
John II 1218-1241
(period of short Mongol rule before they left to elect a new great Khan)
Kaloman I 1242-1246
Michael II 1246-1257
Kaloman II 1257-1258
(period of the pretenders) 1258-1279
John III 1279-1280
George I 1280-1292
Smilech 1292-1295
Tschaka 1295-1298
Theodore 1298-1322

Late:

Theodore 1298-1322
George II 1322-1323
Michael III 1323-1330
John IV 1330-1331
John V 1331-1371
John IV 1371-??
(Ottoman rule from 1385)



Chernigovian (E&H)

Early
(dates are not really possible here, many times the Chernigov Rus princes became the Grand Princes of all Kiev and vice versa generally fighting among themselves for the title of ruler of all Kiev, getting kicked out of their princely titles for a year or two, being restored, getting kicked out again, and then re-restored, etc.)

Oleg I

(prince of Chernigov, and given the patronomial Gorislavlichi - which means Son of Woe, for always losing. He contended with his Kiev cousins Sviatapolk and Vladimir Monomakh ((grandson of the Byzantine Monomachus)) for the throne of all Kiev. He invariably lost, his descendants, always also-ran contenders for the Kiev throne, were called Olgovichi and the Kiev rulers called Monomakhovichi. He did obtain help from the Cumans/Kipchaks to regain Chernigov from Vsevolod and Vladimir in 1078 lost it, regained it again in 1096, so he should be the first Early era ruler of Chernigov, I think. It seems better than Vsevolod for a year or two, then Oleg, then Vladimir, then Oleg again, then Vsevolod again)

Vsevolod I
Vladimir I
David
Yaroslav I
Vsevolod II
Vladimir II
Iziaslav I
Sviatoslav II
Oleg II
Sviatoslav III
Yaroslav II
Igor I
(subject of the great epic poem of Igor and his fights against his Kiev cousins and the Polovtsians (Cumans) and source of the Polovetsian Dances from Borodin's opera Prince Igor)
Oleg III

High

Vsevolod III
Rurik I
Gleb I
Mstislav II
Oleg IV
Michael I
Mstislav III
(Conquered by the Golden Horde in 1239)




Cuman (L)

For the Cumans, are you wanting the Cuman descended Wallachians? Or would you prefer to use older more Turkic style names from earlier Cuman rulers of various nomadic tribes on the northern shores of the Black Sea?

Cuman Princes of Wallachia after Tihomir I, Basarab is his son and the first official Prince of Wallachia.

Basarab 1310-1352
Nicholas 1352-1364
Vladislav I 1364-1372
Radu I 1372-1383
Dan I 1383-1386
Mircea I 1386-1393
(conquered by the Ottomans in 1393)

Older Cuman/Kipchak ruler's names:

Konchak
Togli
Kuntuvdi
Kotyan
Bortz (forebear of Tihomir I of Wallachia)

and my personal favorite, hands down the best name of any ruler:

Bonyak the Mangy ~D Seriously, he ruled a Cuman/Kipchak tribe from 1096-1111

WesW
08-08-2005, 03:06
Ok, that's good work, Aenlic.
For the kings, I need the specific guys in power the year the campaign starts, though Hugh IV needs to be the guy for Outremer in Late. What need are some details about them, so that I can set their ability stats. Here is the entry and comments on one of the Swedish kings:

"Jedward", "Bonde", 1100, 4, 4, 6, 3, 6, mightywarrior2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Jarl and a knight templar. Very pious and highly heroic. Crusaded against the Finns. His son, Erik I (the holy), became king of Upland in 1150 and Swedish king in 1156.

For the other kings, well, I'm looking for the famous ones. Only a couple, if any, of the leaders listed will generally qualify.

As for the Genoese, their real name is the Genoese Confederacy, and represent the collection of independent states in northwestern Italy.
I would recommend finding famous rulers from Tuscany, Lombardy, Piedmont, and Liguria. Savoy only comes into the Italian scene in Late, iirc. You can use your best judgment on who to specify for the start of the campaigns.

As for the Cuman, I'm looking for remnants of the steppe tribes pushed out by the Mongols. However, anything you find out about the Wallachians can be used, as Bulgarian heroes if nothing else.

Aenlic
08-08-2005, 04:16
Ok, gotcha. Sorry about that. I misread the post and saw kings, but not famous kings. I'll dig further.

Also while looking at info for faction office titles, it seems to me that the Qadi al-Quda position in all of the Islamic factions should be used for the religious title that comes with a grand mosque rather than as the palace governor. The office of qadi is a religious position. For the Almoravids, the governor should be "Vali al-Maghrib" for the royal palace office title, since vali was the Almoravid title for governor. I'll look into some more for those

Aenlic
08-08-2005, 05:20
In the MM4_Heroes.txt, you'll need to move a couple of names further up the forenames list for the Almohads, so they can be used for the Almoravid king names. Tashufin and Ishaq are currently at 10 and 12 respectively, and should be higher for the Almoravids, since they were actually Almoravid kings. This would allow them to be used as famous kings as well.

The example you have was for heroes. Do you want the famous king info in the same manner, or as it will appear in the heroes.txt? For example, I can do the Almoravids as it will appear in the heroes text for kings instead. will this work?

FAMOUS_KINGS:: FN_ALMORAVID 4
//name,no.,c,d,p,a,portrait,vnv
1, 1, 4, 4, 5, 2, -1, attacker3 //Yusuf ibn Tashufin, the conqueror of Andalusia. Pledged to return to Morocco after helping the Andalusian taifas defeat the Christians and did so. Then, now under no oath, promptly returned with a bigger army and conquered the taifas and defeated multiple Christian armies to bring al-Andalus under Almoravids

2, 1, 1, 3, 5, 3, -1,builderking2 //Ali ibn Yusuf, not near as good a warrior as his father, preferred civilized pursuits to war, began new artistic and building boom

10, 1, 1, 1, 5, 1, -1, zealot3 //Tashufin ibn Ali persecuted Christians and Jews in his domain, as did his predecessors, but was much more vigorous at it, killed in battle

12, 1, 0, 1, 4, 1, -1, tyrant1 //Ishaq ibn Ali, brother of Tashufin, just as much a tyrant but had longer to practice it, lost the entire Almoravid empire to the Almohads while he was off in Spain carrying out a mini-jihad against the Christians and Jews.

Obviously, the 10 and 12 will need to be changed if you move the Almoravid forenames up the list.

Famous_Heroes:: FN_ALMORAVID 1
//forename,surname, date,c, d,p,a,l,vnv,TYPE,ID_REGION,portrait

"Compare", "Reverter", 1115, 4, 3, 1, 1, 2, mightywarrior3, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //The Compare Reverter, called 'al-Rubertayr' by the Almoravids, former viscount of Barcelona, was captured by them in 1132, later led the elite forces of the Almoravids in Morocco in defense against the Almohads. Killed in 1144, so I made his date 1115 so he'll appear after 1135.

That's it for the Almoravids, I'll try to find a couple more heroes for them and begin on the other factions.

Aenlic
08-08-2005, 08:53
I have an idea for the Genoese Confederacy, since it is proving difficult to find any rulers at all during the early era for any of the NW Italian states except for Savoy. At that time, Genoa was a commune/republic, as was Pisa, and most of the others. Piedmont was wholly owned by the Dukes of Savoy except for a brief period during the high era when it was ruled by a cadet branch of the Savoys. Lombardy as a state ceased to exist in 774 when the Franks annexed it. Liguria was really just Savona and Genoa. Tuscany and most of the others were ruled from the HRE or France as feudal properties, when they weren't outright populist communes or run by the church.

However, The Margraves of Montferrat might make an ideal choice for the Confederacy rulers in the early era. In southern Piedmont, this margraviate eventually produced Margave Boniface I, who organized and led the disastrous 4th Crusade, crowned himself King of Thessalonika, established the Duchy of Athens and the Principality of Achaea as his vassals states, and so annoyed the Venetians with his sheer competence that they decided someone more maleable would make a better Emperor of the Latins. He was then killed in battle by our High Era Bulgarian Tsar Kalojan in 1207.

Monferrat would fade after Boniface I, especially after the Pope excommunicated the entire 4th Crusade army for sacking Zara. At that point, Savoy was well on the way to establishing its power. They ruled Piedmont from 1046-1798, controlled much of NW Italy by proxy - including the Genoese later, one of the Dukes (Amadeus VI "The Peaceful") became the Antipope Felix V.

It's your call. But other than just using the Italian default names, which are really the Venetians, there isn't going to be a solution which uses names from Genoa, Piedmont, Tuscany, or any of the other states/counties of the former Lombardy or Liguria.

Aenlic
08-08-2005, 09:34
What king name lists are you using for the Bulgars, Chernigovians and Cumans?

The Bulgar names are more heavily influenced by the Cumans than the Vlach list which appears to just be the Hungarian list in the beta heroes.txt file. The name of the founding family of the second Bulgarian empire, Asen, seems to come directly from Cuman or at least some Turkic source; and perhaps even further back to the Ashina or Asena, the ruling clan of the Gokturk Empire of Khaganates in the 6th - 8th centuries, and possibly the source of much of the nobility for the Turkic nomads later, including the Cumans.

If I know which king list you're going to use for each era, then I can figure out the famous kings and heroes.

I've finished the Outremer famous kings and heroes, btw. 2 famous kings each for high and late eras, and multiple heroes.

ToranagaSama
08-08-2005, 12:58
Hello all,

TS had decided to give up on RTW and BI w/o even trying the Demo.

I did a fresh install of MTW, then VI, the Patch, then the MM's Graphics, Text and Map files.

Something must be wrong.

First is there only one MM era, the "Late" era, MM Late?

I prefer the starting on Early, so I did. Opened a Campaign as the Scilians and the Danes.

Sicilians:

Well, first on the parchment where you choose your faction, when Scilians is chosen, the map to the left, shows, two provinces grayed (the sicilian color). The island of Sicily of course, but there's a province in the middle of eastern europe that's also gray.

Once the Campaign opens, the little island to the right of Sicily, Malta, is missing, yet, My King is sitting where the island s/b, and there's a Port there as well. Where's the Island? [Did you give my island to those swamp dwellers in Venice?? ;) ]

Presuming this to be an correctible error, please, could we have the Sicilian King start the Campaign on Sicily, not on Malta. It makes no sense for the King NOT to begin in Sicily. All other Kings begin in their home province; and, more to the point it SEVERLY handicaps the Sicilians from the outset.

The Sicilian human player must waste an entire Turn, just to shuffle the King to Sicily where he s/b in the first place. Given the rather weak position of the Scilians, EVERY turn is crucial in the opening.

I imagine that this is particularly so for the AI playing as Sicily, it MUST be handicapped as well. I doubt and/or wonder if the AI is smart enough to recognize and move the King to Sicily.

More....

Ok, apparently Ruthenia is the province in the middle of eastern europe. I right-clicked on it and a parchment opens stating: Malta. Obviously, something has been transposed or something.

Also, I can move my Agents, Emissary and Princess, great distances to the following, select, provinces on the first turn, etc.:

Ruthenia, Epirus, Thrace, Liguria, Venice, Compania, Crete, Cyprus, and Egypt.

Is this intended?

Lastly, I moved my King to Ruthenia, prior to hitting End Turn, just to see if it would, indeed, go there; well, it would and I can't move him back to his starting position, the missing island of Malta. JFYI, Princes *come-to-age* and enter the game in Malta.

Oh, and I can't move a ship into the central Med, the area where Malta should be. This leaves *Malta* wide open to attack.

---

The Danes

Immediately, I notice that the Danes begin with a unit of "Chinese". This can't be correct??

More to come later....

ToranagaSama
08-08-2005, 16:38
BTW, I am able to build a Fort in Malta. The Fort appears in the correct place on the map. Rather amusing to see a Fort and no island.

Something else I noted,

I have completed a string of ships extending from the Straits of Sicily to the Straits of Gibralter. There are ports in Granada, Valencia, Corsica and Sardinia, to which I am exporting Tradeables.

There is also a port in Liguria, formerly Genoa (the Parchment reads Genoa, btw), from which I am NOT receiving any income from exporting Tradeables. I *presume* this to be an error???

Just an aside, the *gather point* for Malta is rather *fixed* all the stacks are right on top of one another.

cutepuppy
08-08-2005, 18:25
all your problems can be explained by the modded text files that you downloaded with MM 4. I'll try to explain it.
First the strange appearance of forts and ports in the middle of the sea. You should see the stratmap as consisting of 2 layers: a lower layer which is the 'geographical map' (the one that shows rivers, mountain ranges,...) and an upper layer, which is the 'strategical map' (used by the game engine). Every province on the strategic map is defined by a certain color set in a specific file (I think it's called lukupmap). Those colors are referred to in other files: campmap\startpos\early, high and late. And now comes the tricky part: wes modded the lukupmap and changed some colors. The original textfiles for early, high and late, however, still use the original color schemes. So due to the fact that the original province colors are changed, you can see malta in central europe instead of in the central mediterranean.

This change also causes the strange movement patterns of your agents: the game engine considers it as a logical move, but on the map, it seems very strange.

The weird name of your spearmen is explained by the fact that wes also modded the LOC\eng\names file, a text file used to display the names of all units, buildings and men on the parchments.

hope it helped a bit. I think you should live with that if you want to play both MM and the original game.

ToranagaSama
08-08-2005, 19:13
I do not want to play the orignal game! I haven't played Vanilla in a couple of years!!!

How do I fix things??

ToranagaSama
08-08-2005, 20:41
Hmmm.... I get it, only the late era. Right, I forgot, its the same as before.
I've never played the late era, seriously, maybe time to try.

Aenlic
08-08-2005, 21:36
We're in the midst of beta testing the new mod. For simplicity, that is just the late era for now. The final release will include all three eras. For now, as Wes works on various parts, the late era will be the only one available modded.

Many things are still changing, even in the late era campaign. But play as much as you like, and if you encounter any problems not already discussed in the above thread, then please post them here so Wes can check them out.

bozkirsovalyesi
08-08-2005, 22:28
I know small english - bad english but know many turks history - good turks history.



Bonyak the Mangy Seriously, he ruled a Cuman/Kipchak tribe from 1096-1111

real name: benek = spot .......

but old tuks give "bad name" new born baby. protect for cause misfortune by the evil eye...

walachia and 2. bulgaria dinasty cuman ... ok.
but faction ve cultur rumanian and slav. these not cuman factions.


cumans (meaning)
turkish: kuman = blond or brown or pale
russian: polovtsi = blond or brown
germans: fallben = blond
armenian: xartes = blond

(many beautiful humans to be grumble... east and west bibliography)


kuman kings (han=king)

boluş.................... (fame: 1055)
sakal or iskal ...........(fame: 1061)
benek or bonyak .......(fame: 1090-1091)
togurhan ................(fame: 1090-1091)
sarıhan ..................(fame: 1090-1110)
altınoba ..................(fame: 1090_1110)
uzluk or osuluk .........(fame: 1094??)
küre.......................(fame: 1096)
atrak .....................(fame: 1118-1125 but to be before and thereafter is ???)
kobyak....................(fame: 1169-1180's ?)
konçak ...................(fame: 1169 or 1170 - after 1185 thereafter is 1190's to be ??)
yuriy .....................(fame: 1222) (konçak son... christian han) name not turkish
danil .....................(fame: 1222-1223) (kebek son ... christian han) name not turkish
kotyan ..................(fame: 1223)
bastı......................(fame: 1223) (christian..????)
borç ......................(fame: 1233)
köten or kotyan.........(fame: 1239-1241 but to be before)


kumans to be federation...

kuman federation:
1- middle asia group (north turkistan)
2- volga-ural group
3- donetz-don group
4- lower dnyepr group
5- tuna gorup


zone names:
don - dnyepr distance = LEVEDİA (hungar leader "Lebedi" names)
don-donetz distance = ETELKÖZ ( rivers distance)
Dnyeper-Dnyester rivers lower basins = ÖZİ (mean: dnyepr)




kuman cityes:

notheast caucasia:
Belencer ( in dagıstan caucas mountain hillside)
Semender (in coast)
Derbent (in coast)

Kuban rives mouth ...
Tmutorokan ....(Taman Tarhan names), ,

Volga delta:
or Sarıgşın = "white city"
Han-balıg = "king city"

ural river coast:
Saksin .............(kumans kapital)

Don river coast:
Sarkel

crimea:
Sugdak



important kuman tribes name:

uzur
alpar
tolun
kıpçak
kanglı
yimek
uran
yuğur


kuman forenames:

itler, kıtan, kubasar, kutlu arslan, Sevinç, İlDeniz, oldamur, Aybeg, Kutuz, Baybars, Kalavun, Balaban, bolsun, borçuk,
Asen, Toktemir, Basaraba, Altınaba, Tomuzaba, Itaba, Arslanaba,
Akbaş, Akkuş, Bozdogan, Bilik, Berendey, Barak, Bars, Buga, Belçir, Kara, Kızıl, Kazan, Şişman, Temirtaş, Tok, Ötemiş, balık, Dobrotiç, buldur, bulmaz,
Berkiş, Kara, Buğa, Çolpan, Toluntay, Payandur, Tuttarkan (Tutrakan)

bibliography: Laszlo Rasonyi "history in turks"




general tuks names: (turks for complete)
men names=erkek adları (blue)
women names=kız adları (red)
(*) marked names both men and women names.

http://www.tonyukuk.net/adlar.htm

Aenlic
08-09-2005, 05:00
Great infomation! Thanks. I had the Anglicized version of those names, such as Konchak and Bortz. Your information is much more complete.

The difficulty is that the Cumans ceased to exist as a usable faction prior to the MTW Late era, as the list shows, sometime in the middle of the High era. That is why I brought up using the Cuman line which founded the principality of Wallachia. It is closer in time to when Wes is using the Cumans.

That's a great list of names, too. I now have it bookmarked in my favorites list. Thank you, Bozkirsovalyesi!

I think Bonyak or Benek would make an ideal famous hero for the Cumans. So would Konchak or Konçak, since he figures so prominently in the epic poem Song of Igor.

Wes, I've located some information for more famous heroes for the other factions you listed. One of the best names yet, Vseslav the Werewolf, who apparently invaded Novgorod from Polotsk and ruled for about a year before being kicked out in 1069. But he lived until 1101, so just by name alone, seems to make a great famous hero in the early era for the Novgorods. I'm waiting until I hear whether or not the format in which I posted the Almoravid info is what you want, though.

torguskhan
08-09-2005, 14:25
for a long time the cuman capital was astrakhan on the volga river delta that flows into the caspian sea. it was destroyed in 1237 by the mongol hordes. one famous cuman khan was khotyan khan. he and his family were massacred by the hungarians. hope that helps. bachman was one of the most famous cuman generals was bachman. he was killed by mongols the same year. is was once a scythian city, passed on to the pechnegs, other steppe tribes then finally conquered by the cumans

SicilianVespers
08-09-2005, 15:56
Wes,
At the start of the Late era, the proper Kingdom of Sicily (Sicily, Malta, & Duchy of Athens) should be independent of Aragon. Our Kings were drawn from a junior branch of the Aragonese house, but we were a seperate Kingdom, in opposition to Angevin Naples (which was a junior branch of the French ruling house).

I think it would be better to have the true Sicilian faction in Sicily, with a French controlled Naples, as they were the usurpers called in by the Pope.

Federico III, who was king in 1320, was the heir of the Norman and Hohenstaufen thru the female line. The Sicilians should be trying to recapture S. Italy from the French, not the other way around.

As such, the Sicilians should still have access to any Catalan units, Almughavars, Jinets, etc, in addition to Sicilian Feudal Knights, etc.

In the event you don't want to change this, I would suggest taking Sicilian Knights away from the Angevins (give them French Knights), and allowing the Aragonese to build them in Sicily. In this Case the Aragonese should properly be renamed to the Catalans, with Aragon and Sicily being seperate Kingdoms in the Catalan confederation. Sicily would then be "Homeland" for the Catalans. It was the Sicilian Barons that conquered Sardinia for the Aragonese house, and Aragon-Sicily can't even build them.

Either way the Sicilians, as represented in the current beta, should be renamed to the Angevins. There is nothing Sicilian about them, except their usurped crown.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, that wasn't my intention. I was just very dissapointed when I saw the setup.

I am going on vacation for two weeks, so you won't see any replies from me for a while.

bozkirsovalyesi
08-09-2005, 17:42
QUOTE]I'm waiting until I hear whether or not the format in which I posted the Almoravid info is what you want, though.[/QUOTE]

Almoravids .... morocco history. my not information.

look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almoravid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almohad

Belisario
08-11-2005, 20:44
Hello boys! This is my first post and my english is rather bad (I´m from Spain). I want help with this list of almoravid and almohad generals because I like very much the Medmod project.

-Sir ibn Abi Bakr: almoravid general that conquered Seville in 1091 and that was his governor until 1114.

-Abu Bakr al-Latmuni: almoravid general, nephew and son-in-law of the emperor Yusuf ibn Tasufin (1061-1106).

-Tamim ibn Yusuf: almoravid governor of al-Andalus since 1107. He defeated the castilians in the battle of Uclés (1108).

-'Azzun ibn Galbun: andalusian allied of the almoravids. He participated in the battle of Cutanda (1120): Alfons I of Aragón defeated the almoravids. The 'Azzun son's were important governors under the almohads:
a) Abu'l-Gamr ibn 'Azzun: Governor of Jaén and outstanding defending of Córdoba during the castilian siege of 1150. Died in battle in 1158.
b) 'Ali ibn 'Azzun: Governor of Ronda. He and his sons were outstandings members of the almohad administration.

-'Ali ibn Ghaniya: almoravid ruler of the Balearic Islands in the second half of the twelve century. He and his brother Yahya attacked in 1184 the coast of Algeria challenging the almohads. With the support of some berber and arab tribes of Tunisia and Cirenaica conquered several cities in the coast of Algeria and in Ifriqiyya (Tunisia). In 1187 'Ali was injured in battle and he was forced to retreat to the desert.

-Yahya ibn Ghaniya: Almoravid. He was brother of the previous. He conquered the main part of Ifriqiyya (1198-1200) and the citie of Tunisia in 1203. In this year the almohads conquered the Balearic Islands and began the reconquest of Ifriqiyya. Yahya was defeated and he retreated to the desert. Until his dead in 1233 Yahya was a constant threat for the last almohad caliphs.

-Muhammad ibn Mardanish, the Wolf King of Murcia: Andalusian ruler of Valencia and Murcia. The spanish region of Levante was inaccesible for the almohads during his life. He died in 1172.

-Sayyid Abu Zayd: almohad general of the caliph Abu Yusuf Ya'qub al-Mansur (1184-1199). He recovered a big part of the territories conquered by 'Ali ibn Ghaniya in the east of the Caliphate.

-Abu Muhammad Abd al-Wahid: excellent almohad general of the caliphs Abu Yusuf Ya'qub (1184-1199) and Muhammad al-Nasir (1199-1213). He participated in the victory of Alarcos (1195) and in the campaigns against Yahya ibn Ghaniya in Ifriqiyya.

-Abu Sa'id ibn Djami: almohad visir of the caliph Muhammad al-Nasir (1199-1213). He commanded the rear of the almohad army in the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa (1212) and was defeated by the christians.

I'm sorry, but I don't know the dates of the birth and dead of the main part of this generals. Goodbye! ~:)

Aenlic
08-12-2005, 03:01
Wonderful information, Belisario! I'm sure Wes can use those names for Almoravid and Almohad heroes. They are perfect.

In what part of Spain do you live? My mother's parents were born in Granada and Seville and emigrated to the U.S. via Hawaii in 1910; although, sadly, I do not speak much Spanish at all. It is a pleasure to hear from you!

ToranagaSama
08-13-2005, 17:47
Noticed this a few days ago, but forgot to post:

The Sicilian province of Apulia has a *Govenorship* entitled the "Count of Toranto". I take this is not as it should be?

Aenlic
08-13-2005, 19:49
I believe it's intentional. Taranto is a city in Apulia, but during the MTW time period it was a principality under the Norman lords of Sicily. The first prince of Norman Taranto, Bohemond, was the son of Robert Guiscard, the founder of the Norman Kingdon of Sicily. Bohemond was granted Taranto and essentially the entire "heel" of Italy after Robert repudiated Bohemond's mother and took as his second wife, Sikelgaita, the daughter of the Lombard prince of Sicily which he'd just conquered. Robert's son by his second wife became his heir, Roger I, King of of Sicily. Bohemond was also later Prince of Antioch after the First Crusade.

Big_John
08-13-2005, 20:06
i encountered a ctd in 1338 with the danes. using godmode, i was able to determine that it's not something that was being built. i couldn't figure out the cause of the crash, it happens as soon as i hit the end-turn button. so far, this has just happened once (i've played several other games past that year). :shrug:

also, i noticed that dauphine has spices and ivory as trade goods, is this intentional?

Greeny
08-13-2005, 20:34
There seems to be a bug with the crusade AI and the new provinces. I built a crusade in Franconia and lauched it at Gotland but now the crusade is stuck in Franconia and wont let me move it into any other province.

Aenlic
08-14-2005, 02:29
Is there a path to Gotland? For the Crusade to get there, there must be a port on your side of the water, a port in Gotland, and ships of your own faction in the each of the sea provinces from your port to the Gotland port. If there isn't a path, then the game AI can't plot possible paths for the Crusade and it'll just sit there in the starting province until a path becomes available. Once a path is clear, then you'll begin to see options for adjacent provinces. If there is a path, then there is a bug for Wes to hunt down.

Belisario
08-14-2005, 11:47
Aenlic I'm from Galicia in the northwest of Spain. I'll try help you with my knowledges. I read a book on the norman kingdom of Sicilia and can post some heroes for this faction. I'll explain my notes and tomorrow I'll post a list.
Goodbye! :book:

Greeny
08-14-2005, 13:22
Is there a path to Gotland? For the Crusade to get there, there must be a port on your side of the water, a port in Gotland, and ships of your own faction in the each of the sea provinces from your port to the Gotland port. If there isn't a path, then the game AI can't plot possible paths for the Crusade and it'll just sit there in the starting province until a path becomes available. Once a path is clear, then you'll begin to see options for adjacent provinces. If there is a path, then there is a bug for Wes to hunt down.

AH, your right, I assumed there was a land bridge between Sweden and Gotland. My bad :dizzy2: .

SicilianVespers
08-14-2005, 16:15
I believe it's intentional. Taranto is a city in Apulia, but during the MTW time period it was a principality under the Norman lords of Sicily. The first prince of Norman Taranto, Bohemond, was the son of Robert Guiscard, the founder of the Norman Kingdon of Sicily. Bohemond was granted Taranto and essentially the entire "heel" of Italy after Robert repudiated Bohemond's mother and took as his second wife, Sikelgaita, the daughter of the Lombard prince of Sicily which he'd just conquered. Robert's son by his second wife became his heir, Roger I, King of of Sicily. Bohemond was also later Prince of Antioch after the First Crusade.

Roger I "the Great" was the son of Robert Guiscard's brother, the "Great Count" Roger.

After Guiscards death, Roger "Borsa" became the 2nd Duke of Apulia. He was forced to grant Bohemund the Principality of Taranto, after Bohemund 's rebellion.

Roger "Borsa" of Apulia and Roger "the Great" of Sicily are two different people, but they were cousins.

The Proper title for southern Italy should be Duke of Apulia, which includes the Principality of Salerno, and the Principality of Taranto.

The title in the Campania should be the Prince of Capua.

The Duchy of Apulia was always held by the heir to the throne, similar to the Prince of Wales in Great Britain.

In the early years of the Kingdom the Roger II's son Roger (would have been the III if he had not died before his father) was Duke of Apulia, While, his second son Alfonso was the Prince of Capua.

In my mods I usually create them as heroes, rather than heirs, because the died before their father. This was William I will succeed.

Another possible hero wouls be Enrico Aleramici, the brother of Adelaide (Roger II's uncle, a father figure after Roger I died). He was the Count of Butera in Sicily. Very powerful in Sicily, his son was Simone Aleramici.

I already provided all this information to Wes.

If any information on Sicily is needed, please let me know...

ToranagaSama
08-14-2005, 21:18
Well, played extensively last night, here are my observations, generally, in the order I encountered them, MM Late Era, Sicily:


a)

x. Wargalley has support cost of 20; Gungalley has support cost of 13. Seems like it s/b the reverse.

xx. The Parchment for the Constable's Palace states that building it will give "+2 Command". In reality, you get +2 Acumen and +2 Loyalty. (Gosh, I waited all that time expecting the 2 stars!) What's it supposed to be?

The conflict continues in that the benefit of +2 Acumen is not effected. The province did not receive the added economic boost that +2 Acumen should provide. There was nothing additional in my observation over several Turns.

One can only presume that the Loyalty benefit is not being effected as well. Though, the interesting thing to discern is whether the Parchment stated +2 Command is being effected??


b) Tunisia:

What's the reasoning for removing the Gold resource from Tunisia. I understand the reasoning in weakening the costal powers, but I don't think this province s/b included. It only had Gold. No Tradeables.

Without the Gold resource, there's little incentive to take this provence. While, its the natural place for the Sicilians to extend. Virtually everyone else in the Med they are Trading with and/or are just too strong and/or costly to fight.


c) This may be the intended design, if so please inform; but I've encountered the situation when taking a province, sieging, and letting the castle fall, rather than taking the castle, I cannot Train units!!

I cannot seem to be capable of Training units in Sardinia or Corsica. No matter what buildings I build. The icon to click in order to build *units* is not there. The icon for building buildings is there.

The situation is the same for Cordoba, which I've recently taken.


d) Also, I've taken Cordoba while the Scots hold Old and New Castille, Portugal, Leon, and Al-Gharg. I do not see ANY Scottish ships in any sea zones, there's certainly none in the sea zones surrounding the Spainish pennisula. Yet, the Scots can move troops into the Spanish provinces. FYI, Aquataine is held by the French, and Aragon by the Venitians.

So, how are the Scots able to move troops w/o ships and w/o holding Aquataine and/or Aragon?

Maybe the units are coming from one or more of the Spanish provinces, BUT, when game is doing the *Tour*, stacks are flying down from the North over the Costa Verde. Seems strange.


P.S., I've finally begun to enounter Scotch ships. The first I saw was a single ship sitting in the Atlantic Ocean doing much of nothing for quite some time. Yet there are NO other Scotch ships ANYWHERE! not even in the English channel where they would be expected.

Soooo, HOW are the Scotch managing to travel from the British Isles????? I have a screenshot, if anyone wants to see it. Additionally, there are NO ships from any Northern European faction whatsoever in the Atlantic, nor any of the nothern seas. The year is 1430.

The Scotch have somehow managed to put an additional couple of ships in the water. This ships ***appeared*** in the Med off the Spanish coast. The Scotch have NO Med provinces and I did not note ANY ships moving from the Atlantic into the Med. These ships simply appeared.

The Scotch ship attacked my ship off the coast of Cordoba, obviously in an effort to isolate my troops in Cordoba. Sometimes the AI acts so damned intelligent!! W/O that ship, no reinforcements and the Scotch could steadily wittle down my troops in Cordoba. Excellent move by the AI.

Unfortunately, it was weak. I had a Gun Galley, the AI had a War Galley. I win. I think the Scotch tried again, with a ship simply appearing. Same result.


e) General observation of Campaign Development:

I found my game to be dominated by the Venitians/Italians and the Byz. The Byz took over the Black Sea provinces and virtually the entire eastern Med. provinces.

While the Venitians/Italians took over the virtually the entire western Med. provinces.

There was little exception, 95% or better, of the provinces surrounding the Med and the Black Sear were held by one or the other.

P.S., shortly after making the above observation ("e"), BAM! It appears the game-code kicked that hits a faction that has expanded faster than the game-code thinks it should(?). The Venitians/Italians have expanded so extensively, that roughly 75% or better of the Med coastline is GREEN!

Well, the game-code smacked them bad. Suddenly, just like that they are hit with mutliple rebellions all over. It was truly *interesting* to witness so vividly what Org members have been whinning about since MTW's release.

Its to be noted, that more than 50% of the Venitian/Italian provinces had VERY small garrisons. While at the same time there were mutlipe stacks, varying each turn between, 3,4, or 5, full stacks in and around Venice and Verona. Particularly, Verona was *very* often under attack. The entire **immediate** region surround the two was in constant turmoil.

Summing up: The Venitian/Italians, imo, appeared to have expanded much in the manner of a human *warmongering* type player, expanding as quickly as possible. At one point, they held every Med coastline province from, Provence to the furtherest Egytian province (forget name), and, if I recall correctly, also the two island beyond Sicily, Crete and the other (forget name). The Byz now hold the three farthest Egyptian provinces.

I, on the other hand, hold the starting Sicilian provences, along with Sardinia, Corsica and Cordoba. I held Al-Gharb for a moment before being overwhelmed by the AI in a big battle where the AI reinforcements just keep comming.

Playing the Late Era, this is my first time to any extensive degree, is quite different than from Early. Playing the MM Late Era (beta) is certainly challenging as the Scilians.

It's mostly a *survival* game, as the Sicilians ("S") are simply too weak and poor to attack anybody. It'd be suicide. The first priority is to get a strong army into Campania to ward off attack by the Papacy. A little butt whopping and the Pope will stop comming. So the slightest sign of weakness and here he comes again.

After accomplishing that, you've got to get your economy going and get ships in the water, not just for trade, but to control the *Lugarian Sea*! In this way the Genoans are cut off from Corsica and Sardinai. Then, these provinces are easily taken as the Genoans cannot reinforce.

Lastly, both the Venitians and Byz have relatively large fleets of ships. In fact, both have a virtually FULL stack of ships, in addition to string of hips around the Med and Black Sea, respectively. No other faction, including my Sicilians, have mutliple ship stacks. Big imbalance! Though, of course, the AI isn't taking advantage of the imbalance.

A FULL stack, if the AI were a human, each could wipe the seas of all competing ships, before a final showdown!!

In closing, I don't have much experience playing the Late Era, so I have no prior barometer to judge, but I wonder how much of this behaviour is intentional. To what degree its typical of the Late Era, or the result of the MM?

[the P.S. comments were added to the original.]

Belisario
08-15-2005, 18:54
Hello! I make a new list of names for the sicilians. I collected this names of the book of Salvatore Tramontana, "La monarchia normanna e sveva", UTET, Torino, 1994.

// sicilian_forenames
ADD_FORENAMES::
"Ruggero"
"Guglielmo"
"Tancredi" //Only First 3 are names of norman kings of Sicily
"Roberto"
"Simone"
"Goffredo"
"Boemondo"
"Umfredo" //Last 5 names are names of norman princes of d'Altavilla family

"Abelardo"
"Alfano"
"Amato"
"Amico"
"Andrea"
"Argiro"
"Arisgoto"
"Arnolino"
"Asclettino"
"Atenolfo"
"Azzolino"
"Boemondo"
"Bonizone"
"Bosone"
"Drogone"
"Enrico"
"Falcone"
"Filippo"
"Filigato"
"Francesco"
"Gentile"
"Germano"
"Giacomo"
"Gilberto"
"Giordano"
"Giorgio"
"Giovanni"
"Girardo"
"Gisulfo"
"Giuseppe"
"Goffredo"
"Guaimario"
"Gualtiero"
"Guglielmo"
"Grimoaldo"
"Ingelmaro"
"Landone"
"Leone"
"Luca"
"Maione"
"Margarito"
"Martino"
"Matteo"
"Melo"
"Nicola"
"Oddone"
"Pandolfo"
"Paolo"
"Pietro"
"Rainulfo"
"Riccardo"
"Rinaldo"
"Roberto"
"Rodolfo"
"Roffredo"
"Romualdo"
"Ruggero"
"Serlone"
"Silvestro"
"Simone"
"Stefano"
"Taddeo"
"Tancredi"
"Tebaldo"
"Tommaso"
"Tristano"
"Ugo"
"Umfredo"
//german forenames in Sicily: high period
//"Bertoldo"
//"Corrado"
//"Ditpoldo"
//"Federico"
//"Liutfrido"
//"Manfredi"
//"Markwaldo"

// Sicilian_surnames
ADD_SURNAMES::
"d'Altavilla" //italian form of "de Hauteville"

"Arenga"
"Aristippo"
"Avenel"
"Bonello"
"Borsa"
"Braccio di Ferro" //Iron arm
"Buatère"
"Capodiferro" //Iron head
"Drengot"
"Emiro"
"l'Eunuco"
"Falcando"
"Guarna"
"Guiscardo"
"Malaterra"
"Quarrel"
"Palmer"
"Ridel"
"Sclavo"
"Tutobovi"

"d'Acerenza"
"d'Acerra"
"d'Ajello"
"d'Alife"
"d'Altavilla"
"d'Andria"
"d'Antiochia"
"dell'Aquila"
"d'Ariano"
"d'Avellino"
"d'Aversa"
"d'Offamil"

"di Bari"
"di Benevento"
"di Brindisi"
"di Calabria"
"di Capua"
"di Castrogiovanni"
"di Catanzaro"
"di Conversano"
"di Fasanella"
"di Gaeta"
"di Gerace"
"di Giovinazzo"
"di Gravina"
"di Lauria"
"di Lecce"
"di Loretello"
"di Mahdia"
"di Marsico"
"di Matera"
"di Messina"
"di Molise"
"di Montecassino"
"di Montenero"
"di Montepeloso"
"di Monte Sant'Angelo"
"di Montescaglioso"
"di Perche"
"di Puglia"
"di Rupecanina"
"di Salerno"
"di San Severino"
"di Taranto"
"di Tarsia"
//german surnames in sicily: high period
//"di Hohenstaufen" //royal surname; italian form of "von Hohenstaufen"
//"di Annweiler"
//"di Kalden"
//"di Kuensberg"
//"di Luetzelinhard"
//"di Urslingen"
//"di Vohburg"

// sicilian_princesses
ADD_PRINCESS::
"Adelasia"
"Alberada"
"Costanza"
"Emma"
"Eremburga"
"Giovanna"
"Giuditta"
"Margherita"
"Maximilla"
"Sichelgaita"

// sicilian forenames
["Ruggero"] {"Ruggero"}
["Guglielmo"] {"Guglielmo"}
["Tancredi"] {"Tancredi"}
["Roberto"] {"Roberto"}
["Simone"] {"Simone"}
["Goffredo"] {"Goffredo"}
["Boemondo"] {"Boemondo"}
["Umfredo"] {"Umfredo"}

["Abelardo"] {"Abelardo"}
["Alfano"] {"Alfano"}
["Amato"] {"Amato"}
["Amico"] {"Amico"}
["Andrea"] {"Andrea"}
["Argiro"] {"Argiro"}
["Arisgoto"] {"Arisgoto"}
["Arnolino"] {"Arnolino"}
["Asclettino"] {"Asclettino"}
["Atenolfo"] {"Atenolfo"}
["Azzolino"] {"Azzolino"}
["Boemondo"] {"Boemondo"}
["Bonizone"] {"Bonizone"}
["Bosone"] {"Bosone"}
["Drogone"] {"Drogone"}
["Enrico"] {"Enrico"}
["Falcone"] {"Falcone"}
["Filippo"] {"Filippo"}
["Filigato"] {"Filigato"}
["Francesco"] {"Francesco"}
["Gentile"] {"Gentile"}
["Germano"] {"Germano"}
["Giacomo"] {"Giacomo"}
["Gilberto"] {"Gilberto"}
["Giordano"] {"Giordano"}
["Giorgio"] {"Giorgio"}
["Giovanni"] {"Giovanni"}
["Girardo"] {"Girardo"}
["Gisulfo"] {"Gisulfo"}
["Giuseppe"] {"Giuseppe"}
["Goffredo"] {"Goffredo"}
["Guaimario"] {"Guaimario"}
["Gualtiero"] {"Gualtiero"}
["Guglielmo"] {"Guglielmo"}
["Grimoaldo"] {"Grimoaldo"}
["Ingelmaro"] {"Ingelmaro"}
["Landone"] {"Landone"}
["Leone"] {"Leone"}
["Luca"] {"Luca"}
["Maione"] {"Maione"}
["Margarito"] {"Margarito"}
["Martino"] {"Martino"}
["Matteo"] {"Matteo"}
["Melo"] {"Melo"}
["Nicola"] {"Nicola"}
["Oddone"] {"Oddone"}
["Pandolfo"] {"Pandolfo"}
["Paolo"] {"Paolo"}
["Pietro"] {"Pietro"}
["Rainulfo"] {"Rainulfo"}
["Riccardo"] {"Riccardo"}
["Rinaldo"] {"Rinaldo"}
["Roberto"] {"Roberto"}
["Rodolfo"] {"Rodolfo"}
["Roffredo"] {"Roffredo"}
["Romualdo"] {"Romualdo"}
["Ruggero"] {"Ruggero"}
["Serlone"] {"Serlone"}
["Silvestro"] {"Silvestro"}
["Simone"] {"Simone"}
["Stefano"] {"Stefano"}
["Taddeo"] {"Taddeo"}
["Tancredi"] {"Tancredi"}
["Tebaldo"] {"Tebaldo"}
["Tommaso"] {"Tommaso"}
["Tristano"] {"Tristano"}
["Ugo"] {"Ugo"}
["Umfredo"] {"Umfredo"}
//german forenames in Sicily: high period
["Bertoldo"] {"Bertoldo"}
["Corrado"] {"Corrado"}
["Ditpoldo"] {"Ditpoldo"}
["Federico"] {"Federico"}
["Liutfrido"] {"Liutfrido"}
["Manfredi"] {"Manfredi"}
["Markwaldo"] {"Markwaldo"}

// Sicilian_surnames
["d'Altavilla"] {"d'Altavilla"}

["Arenga"] {"Arenga"}
["Aristippo"] {"Aristippo"}
["Avenel"] {"Avenel"}
["Bonello"] {"Bonello"}
["Borsa"] {"Borsa"}
["Braccio di Ferro"] {"Braccio di Ferro"}
["Buatère"] {"Buatère"}
["Capodiferro"] {"Capodiferro"}
["Drengot"] {"Drengot"}
["Emiro"] {"Emiro"}
["l'Eunuco"] {"l'Eunuco"}
["Falcando"] {"Falcando"}
["Guarna"] {"Guarna"}
["Guiscardo"] {"Guiscardo"}
["Malaterra"] {"Malaterra"}
["Quarrel"] {"Quarrel"}
["Palmer"] {"Palmer"}
["Ridel"] {"Ridel"}
["Sclavo"] {"Sclavo"}
["Tutobovi"] {"Tutobovi"}

["d'Acerenza"] {"d'Acerenza"}
["d'Acerra"] {"d'Acerra"}
["d'Ajello"] {"d'Ajello"}
["d'Alife"] {"d'Alife"}
["d'Altavilla"] {"d'Altavilla"}
["d'Andria"] {"d'Andria"}
["d'Antiochia"] {"d'Antiochia"}
["dell'Aquila"] {"dell'Aquila"}
["d'Ariano"] {"d'Ariano"}
["d'Avellino"] {"d'Avellino"}
["d'Aversa"] {"d'Aversa"}
["d'Offamil"] {"d'Offamil"}

["di Bari"] {"di Bari"}
["di Benevento"] {"di Benevento"}
["di Brindisi"] {"di Brindisi"}
["di Calabria"] {"di Calabria"}
["di Capua"] {"di Capua"}
["di Castrogiovanni"] {"di Castrogiovanni"}
["di Catanzaro"] {"di Catanzaro"}
["di Conversano"] {"di Conversano"}
["di Fasanella"] {"di Fasanella"}
["di Gaeta"] {"di Gaeta"}
["di Gerace"] {"di Gerace"}
["di Giovinazzo"] {"di Giovinazzo"}
["di Gravina"] {"di Gravina"}
["di Lauria"] {"di Lauria"}
["di Lecce"] {"di Lecce"}
["di Loretello"] {"di Loretello"}
["di Mahdia"] {"di Mahdia"}
["di Marsico"] {"di Marsico"}
["di Matera"] {"di Matera"}
["di Messina"] {"di Messina"}
["di Molise"] {"di Molise"}
["di Montecassino"] {"di Montecassino"}
["di Montenero"] {"di Montenero"}
["di Montepeloso"] {"di Montepeloso"}
["di Monte Sant'Angelo"] {"di Monte Sant'Angelo"}
["di Montescaglioso"] {"di Montescaglioso"}
["di Perche"] {"di Perche"}
["di Puglia"] {"di Puglia"}
["di Rupecanina"] {"di Rupecanina"}
["di Salerno"] {"di Salerno"}
["di San Severino"] {"di San Severino"}
["di Taranto"] {"di Taranto"}
["di Tarsia"] {"di Tarsia"}
//german surnames in sicily: high period
["di Hohenstaufen"] {"di Hohenstaufen"}
["di Annweiler"] {"di Annweiler"}
["di Kalden"] {"di Kalden"}
["di Kuensberg"] {"di Kuensberg"}
["di Luetzelinhard"] {"di Luetzelinhard"}
["di Urslingen"] {"di Urslingen"}
["di Vohburg"] {"di Vohburg"}

// sicilian_princesses
["Adelasia"] {"Adelasia"}
["Alberada"] {"Alberada"}
["Costanza"] {"Costanza"}
["Emma"] {"Emma"}
["Eremburga"] {"Eremburga"}
["Giovanna"] {"Giovanna"}
["Giuditta"] {"Giuditta"}
["Margherita"] {"Margherita"}
["Maximilla"] {"Maximilla"}
["Sichelgaita"] {"Sichelgaita"}

I hope you will like. ~:)

Aenlic
08-16-2005, 02:06
Very nice, Belisario! May I use these in my own personal mod? I've been looking for things like this.

Belisario
08-16-2005, 21:09
You are free to use these names. I will post soon a new list of names for the castilian-leonese faction. See you later. ~:)

Del Arroyo
08-16-2005, 23:01
Couple of quick comments--

The inland trade goods do not appear to functioning as intended. For me they are producing 0 trade regardless of what level trader I have there.

It is annoying not being able to bulk up w/ cheaper infantry. It is especially annoying considering that with, for instance, the Lithuanians, the only Late Era spears they have access to is Mazkovians, which are a high-tech unit, and 50 years into the game I can STILL only build them out of Lithuania, where I shoudl be building cav and things like that. In my less-teched provinces all I can make are Xbows, Mtd Xbows, and Lith Cav, none of which I need as MANY of as of the Mazkovians.

I understand the logic in forcing the AI to build better armies-- I'm only expressing frustration. I have no basic, reliable melee infantry that is low enough tech to be convenient.

DA

ToranagaSama
08-17-2005, 00:51
It is annoying not being able to bulk up w/ cheaper infantry. It is especially annoying considering that with, for instance, the Lithuanians, the only Late Era spears they have access to is Mazkovians, which are a high-tech unit, and 50 years into the game I can STILL only build them out of Lithuania, where I shoudl be building cav and things like that. In my less-teched provinces all I can make are Xbows, Mtd Xbows, and Lith Cav, none of which I need as MANY of as of the Mazkovians.


I'm still trying to get a handle on things with this new version, and Version 4, from what I can tell is an even greater challenge than the previous 3.14 version.

In general, the philosphy is for you NOT to be able to "bulk-up" on *cheap* troops.

You may just have to take a different approach to the game, as gameplay isn't intended to be convenient.

Though, I surely empathize with your frustration!!! ~:)

Aenlic
08-17-2005, 02:20
You are free to use these names. I will post soon a new list of names for the castilian-leonese faction. See you later. ~:)

Thanks, Belisario! Ruggero and his descendants successfully conquered the world last night. :bow:

Lord Ovaat
08-17-2005, 20:44
Wes, instead of e-mailing this to you as I have in the past, I figured I’d put it in the
forum. Maybe some of the other guys helping you with the mod can use the info. Since
your last mail to me, I’ve dl’d the newest text version. I didn’t dl the graphics, and that
might be a problem, but there wasn’t any indication that you had changed those files.

Anyway, using (ian), and any other tools possible, I’ve played through several campaigns,
as Spanish, French, Byzantine, while checking the other factions that we can unlock. My
findings (those I can remember) are as follows:

The French still can’t build Flemish Pikemen, regardless of what buildings are present.
Don’t know if they really need them, since Partisans are available and pretty useful.

Revolts still tend to be a bit odd. Had a re-emergence of the Horde with 64 trebochets
and two units of heavy cav. Occassionally revolts will appear with all seige weapons or
even spies.

The Byzantines can’t build boats in some of their homeland provences outside the initial
four or so.

I have been unable to detect ANY trade with any land-locked province, regardless of the
level of merchant. This is really handi-capping the AI with most factions, in particular,
the Horde because they can’t build boats. Oddly, Khazar’s trader was showing 20 or so
florins profit even without a fleet.

I am completely unable to load a tactical map with the Byzantines. Keep getting a “gray
bar” notice of “hard-sprites failed to load.” Did you also update the graphics along with
the text? Everything works fine if you auto-resolve.

Also with the Byzantines, I had three different campaigns CTD after about 40 turns.
Using auto-run. Tried saving and ending year repeatedly while changing different items,
such as buildings/units being completed, etc. No help. Still CTD. Spent a good bit of
time studying the startpos and did notice some irregularities in regards to the Swiss, Byz,
Bulgarians. There are some inconsistancies. For instance, Bulgaria is listed as
Orthodox_Expansionist, while Wallachia is listed as Pagan_(something). I realize that
the Byzantines got “Switzerland” as a province and the Bulgarians are technically “the
Swiss”. I think the problem lies either in the text or some of the files I didn’t check.
Also noticed you are using Swiss as their faction designation, but have changed others,
such as the Scots to “Scot”. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it, however.

The Byzantines are able to hire some unusual mercenary units, ie, a culvern unit with 200
crew that costs $9167 and $500 support. I’ve chosen not to hire them, LOL. If I could
have gotten into the battle map, it would have been worth it just to see the unit.

Cogs are more powerful than the later carracks, and both are “deep water”, so upgrading
to shipyard4 is useless.

The Horde’s holy men are still inquisitors and a terror, to boot. However, since the
Mongols are Pagan, they are just as disruptive in their own territories, so the AI ships
them off ASAP, much to the dismay of the Christian factions. While on the Horde, I
know you chose not to give them spies, but I personally feel that may be a mistake for
two reasons. First, it’s a game, and it does enable the AI to control those provinces.
Spies aren’t that much of a problem, anyway, once you have Border Forts and spies in
your own provinces. Secondly, from everything I’ve ever read about the Mongols, one of
the reasons they were so feared was because of their intelligence network. They always
managed to appear when and where it best suited them, and that was no accident. While
I imagine they used a scout system rather than a spy network, the results for the game are
similar.

Boats. With the earlier versions of the Mod, the Swedes and Danes were absolutely boat
happy. They would end up with full stacks all over the place. Now that’s when you
couldn’t get past Gibralter, and they still managed at times to have close to 200 boats in
the water, but almost no army. You corrected that. Now, I’m seeing the reverse. In all
the campaigns I’ve played, the only factions building boats are the Byz, Aragonese, and
the nasty Venetians. They aren’t going over-board, but they do make enough to be a
threat and maintain trade. The Venetians are way overpowered, and I think it’s because
they have very good units, but most importantly, they can AFFORD to buy them because
of trade, and they then can attack any coast they desire. Since hardly any other factions
are producing boats, their coasts are unprotected.

The Byz can build units in Rum and Armenia, even though neither is listed as homeland. Are they? They can also build Pavise Arbalesters in Auverge, I think it was.

For what it's worth, my French and Spanish campaigns played well, but the Byz has had problems from the beginning.

I know there were a few other little things, but durned if I can remember them. Need to
take better notes. Hope this helps, and thanks again for the Mod. Then again, I enjoyed
the earlier version so much, it actually ruined RTW for me. You could probably assauge
my hurt feelings by applying your expertise to the RTW engine, LOL.

WesW
08-18-2005, 04:04
Hi, everyone
I have been under the weather for the last week, which is why I haven't been minding the thread. Sorry. I'll try and get caught up as soon as possible, but it may well be this weekend.

On a positive note, I have been able to continue working on the mod, and should be able to post a huge update very soon. Big John has been sending in some awesome new graphics he has made, and those will be included in the update. This update should virtually be the release version.
I hope that the only things left after posting it will be implementing the names Aenlic has been working on, along with making any adjustments that playtesting reveals.

Aenlic
08-18-2005, 04:59
Wes, do you want me to mail them to you at the apolyton address or post them here?

Aenlic
08-18-2005, 16:31
I've finished most of the info that Wes requested for famous kings and heroes. A few have me completely stumped, however.

I haven't found any early era heroes for the Novgorods. I've thought about using some of the byliny (epic ballad) legendary heroes, like Sadko the merchant-musician (from the Rimsky-Korsakov opera). But they aren't real characters so much as legendary creations for the byliny stories.

I haven't found any late era heroes for the Cumans. Mostly because in the late era they disappeared. Those who fled west when pushed by the Horde, either became outright rulers like the Wallachian princes, or they were absorbed into the local populace, like in Bulgaria. The rulers needed to be used for the late era Cuman famous "kings" instead.

I also still need late era heroes for the Teutonic Knights , who aren't actual grandmasters. I used Order of the Brothers of the Sword (Livonian Knights) grandmasters for the high era Teutonic Knights heroes, since they were absorbed into the Knights in the early part of the high era, and the Teutonic Order in the mod really combines both of them. We need more than just the two heroes I've found for the Teutonic Order, Wenno von Rhorbach and Volquin von Naumberg - the first two grandmasters of the Brothers of the Sword.

For Chernigov, early era, I only have Igor Sviataslov, the hero of the Slavic epic poem Song of Igor's Campaign (and the Borodin opera, Prince Igor). It's difficult, at best, to find heroes who aren't ruling princes because so much of the Kievan Rus history deals only with the battling between the princes. At one point, it just got plain insane in Kiev. From 1172 to 1214 there were 21 separate new princes of Kiev. But, and this is the insane part, those 21 princes consisted of only 7 actual individuals. They kept usurping each other, and getting restored, then re-restored, then re-re-restored. The record goes to Rurik I, who started it all in 1172. He was prince of Kiev 6 different times, being restored 5 times, between 1172 and 1211. Half of them all died in 1214. Maybe the local folk or one of the other princes just got tired of the revolving prince door and took out the worst offenders. I'd like to make Rurik I a Kievan hero, but I don't think there's a VnV for princely yo-yo.

For the Bulgarians, I'm using Ivailo (or Ivajlo) the Swineherd, who led a peasant revolt against Constantine Asen. He was technically a Tsar, from 1277-1279, but he's sort of the ideal hero, rising from swineherd to Tsar of Bulgaria. Could use more.

Greeny
08-18-2005, 21:19
Hi Wes,

I'm getting a repeatable crash to desktop, playing from a save as the Germans, at the end of 1348 (when the end turn button is pressed when under-budget, and when the "insufficent funds" pop-up is clicked on when over-budget).

I'm also occasionaly getting crashes to desktop after finishing a battle and going back to the strategic map.

Conserning province movement: movement between Carniola and Barvaria is possible, but not between Austria and Tyrolia; is this intentional? And if so I think this could be represented better on the strategic map.

Also the Germans can built homeland troops in Lombardy but this province isn't listed as a homeland province.

Still I'm enjoying the mod and looking forward to the finished version.

Bolfry
08-19-2005, 18:39
Does anyone know how can I mod this? This is a really good idea and I would like to know how to do it. Thanks

6) A way of circumventing the game’s rule which placed Artillery units at the top of the list of AI forces. This will help AI performance immensely in large open-field battles.

WesW
08-20-2005, 08:42
I'll try and answer some of the previous posts here, though I may not get to everything...



Anyway, using (ian), and any other tools possible, I’ve played through several campaigns,
as Spanish, French, Byzantine, while checking the other factions that we can unlock. My
findings (those I can remember) are as follows:

The French still can’t build Flemish Pikemen, regardless of what buildings are present.
Don’t know if they really need them, since Partisans are available and pretty useful.

Revolts still tend to be a bit odd. Had a re-emergence of the Horde with 64 trebochets
and two units of heavy cav. Occassionally revolts will appear with all seige weapons or
even spies.

The Byzantines can’t build boats in some of their homeland provences outside the initial
four or so.

I have been unable to detect ANY trade with any land-locked province, regardless of the
level of merchant. This is really handi-capping the AI with most factions, in particular,
the Horde because they can’t build boats. Oddly, Khazar’s trader was showing 20 or so
florins profit even without a fleet.

I am completely unable to load a tactical map with the Byzantines. Keep getting a “gray
bar” notice of “hard-sprites failed to load.” Did you also update the graphics along with
the text? Everything works fine if you auto-resolve.

Also with the Byzantines, I had three different campaigns CTD after about 40 turns.
Using auto-run. Tried saving and ending year repeatedly while changing different items,
such as buildings/units being completed, etc. No help. Still CTD. Spent a good bit of
time studying the startpos and did notice some irregularities in regards to the Swiss, Byz,
Bulgarians. There are some inconsistancies. For instance, Bulgaria is listed as
Orthodox_Expansionist, while Wallachia is listed as Pagan_(something). I realize that
the Byzantines got “Switzerland” as a province and the Bulgarians are technically “the
Swiss”. I think the problem lies either in the text or some of the files I didn’t check.
Also noticed you are using Swiss as their faction designation, but have changed others,
such as the Scots to “Scot”. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it, however.

The Byzantines are able to hire some unusual mercenary units, ie, a culvern unit with 200
crew that costs $9167 and $500 support. I’ve chosen not to hire them, LOL. If I could
have gotten into the battle map, it would have been worth it just to see the unit.

Cogs are more powerful than the later carracks, and both are “deep water”, so upgrading
to shipyard4 is useless.

The Horde’s holy men are still inquisitors and a terror, to boot. However, since the
Mongols are Pagan, they are just as disruptive in their own territories, so the AI ships
them off ASAP, much to the dismay of the Christian factions. While on the Horde, I
know you chose not to give them spies, but I personally feel that may be a mistake for
two reasons. First, it’s a game, and it does enable the AI to control those provinces.
Spies aren’t that much of a problem, anyway, once you have Border Forts and spies in
your own provinces. Secondly, from everything I’ve ever read about the Mongols, one of
the reasons they were so feared was because of their intelligence network. They always
managed to appear when and where it best suited them, and that was no accident. While
I imagine they used a scout system rather than a spy network, the results for the game are
similar.

Boats. With the earlier versions of the Mod, the Swedes and Danes were absolutely boat
happy. They would end up with full stacks all over the place. Now that’s when you
couldn’t get past Gibralter, and they still managed at times to have close to 200 boats in
the water, but almost no army. You corrected that. Now, I’m seeing the reverse. In all
the campaigns I’ve played, the only factions building boats are the Byz, Aragonese, and
the nasty Venetians. They aren’t going over-board, but they do make enough to be a
threat and maintain trade. The Venetians are way overpowered, and I think it’s because
they have very good units, but most importantly, they can AFFORD to buy them because
of trade, and they then can attack any coast they desire. Since hardly any other factions
are producing boats, their coasts are unprotected.

The Byz can build units in Rum and Armenia, even though neither is listed as homeland. Are they? They can also build Pavise Arbalesters in Auverge, I think it was.

For what it's worth, my French and Spanish campaigns played well, but the Byz has had problems from the beginning.

I know there were a few other little things, but durned if I can remember them. Need to
take better notes. Hope this helps, and thanks again for the Mod. Then again, I enjoyed
the earlier version so much, it actually ruined RTW for me. You could probably assauge
my hurt feelings by applying your expertise to the RTW engine, LOL.

Here is the line in the Faction Descriptions readme pertaining to Flemish Pike:

Flemish Pikemen- Swiss Arm. Pikes; Burgundian and English only; bonus in Flanders

As you can see, the French can't build them. For the update I have noted that they are only available in Flanders.
The revolt oddities are noted in the Units notes readme. They are a hard-coded bug that occurs in the standard game, too.
The Byz should be able to build in all homeland provinces except Crete, and I just added Crete to the list for the update.
I don't know what would be causing the tactical map problems. I have never heard of the "hard-sprite failed" error message. I have loaded several custom battles as the Byz, with no problems.
Someone else reported a weird artillery unit some time ago. I looked through both the units and projectile stats, and couldn't find anything odd.
The Mongols can build Spies; it's the diplomacy units that are denied to them.
Good catch regarding the Byz Homelands. I don't know if adding Rum and Edessa was a judgment call I made sometime, or an error. Anyway, I took them out. Since the Byz share Pavise Arbs with the Turks, they can build them anywhere in Asia Minor.
Trying to fine-tune AI naval production has been the hardest thing in the game, in that area. I have struggled with it since the first version of the mod. Things should still be a lot better than the vanilla settings, though I'll try and take another look sometime.
I'm afraid we don't have access to some of the things in Rome that we do in MTW, believe it or not. Has the EB group released their mod yet?

Bolfry, iirc, the main thing to fix the Artillery placement in the queue was to declare their unit type as Infantry in the units text. The game should then queue them according to melee strength. This applies to seiges, too, but then how often does the AI storm your castle?

Greeny, the Germans can't build any units in Lombardy. Nice catch with those connections in the Alps, though. I guess those developed the last time I adjusted the map.

Aenlic, please email me the work you have done. It pastes in the files better, and doesn't clog up the thread.
As for format, the examples you gave were perfect. The syntax has to be correct for each entry type, but I want to keep the historical notes for the kings, too, whenever possible.

TS, glad to see you back in the game. And glad to know you haven't changed any. ~;) You may want to review the mod readmes, however, since a good many of the things you were confused about are explained in them. Good catch regarding the Constable's Palace, though. That was a bug.

Concerning crashes: The border link between the Baltic Sea and Sweden, I believe, is missing, which can cause crashes if you or the AI tries to use that invasion route.

Trade Routes: Their is some sort of hardcoded restriction which limits the game to only one Trading Post building type, so I had to scrap that setup and develop a new one, which acts like a four-level mine. I think it will turn out fine.
Btw, I have run into several limitations or bugs with this last update, which is one reason I haven't been able to get it out as soon as I had hoped. I have a whole list of things to add to the Crash thread, when I finally get this update posted.

Game difficulty: It varies tremendously from faction to faction, which is a good thing, imo. With some factions it may be about impossible to conquer the map in the Late campaign before time expires. The tricky thing is to not turn "challenging" into "frustrating", but sometimes the key to that is for the player to start at a more comfortable level and work his way up. I remember the first game of Rome I seriously tried, I played at the highest level, and could have won easily as any of the Roman factions. It may take some adjustment to get used to not being able to do that with the Medmod, at least not with any faction you choose. ~;)

I'll try and address some of the concerns regarding faction setup after I get the update posted.

Aenlic
08-20-2005, 13:13
Ok, Wes. It's on the way. I just used your post requesting the information for the various factions as the template and then plugged in the info. I wasn't sure on what faction designation you'll be using for some of them, such as the Cumans and the Bulgarians, so I just made a best guess. Adjust as needed. Also, the historical info after the // on the famous kings and famous heroes could possibly need revision to remove line breaks. Hitting return at the end of a line is an old habit that I can't seem to break. Just a heads up; but I've tried to clean them up.

I'm still searching for info on faction office titles for the ones you needed. And I'm still looking at ideas for your Repository building, as well.

Does anyone out there know of a site that does free (free being the operative word here) online translations of Cyrillic to English? I have found great sources of information for the Rus which come from the Primary Chronicle (otherwise known as Nestor's Chronicle); but it's in bits and pieces and if I could just translate the whole thing into English, it would be easier.

I'm also looking for a transliteration site, for Arabic script and Cyrillic (for Bulgarian names, etc.) I can translate English to Arabic script and soon using Systrans sites; but what I really need is an online source that transliterates the Arabic script to phonetic Arabic and Cyrillic to phonetic Bulgarian and Russian, etc.

Lord Ovaat
08-20-2005, 14:50
Wes, I actually did read the read-me for the French, but I completely missed their inability to build Pikemen in Flanders. I think it's a problem with a couple of my brain files being hard-coded. LOL. Anyway, I got to thinking how odd it was for the tactical maps not loading with the "sprite" warning. Like you, I've never seen that. So, I dl'd the text and graphics again and re-installed. No problem now. Might have had a corrupted DL, I don't know.

I know you've been working on the naval aspect, and I also know how exasperating it is. Good luck with both the naval and the land-locked trade.

Lord Ovaat
08-21-2005, 03:09
Wes, thought you might wanna see these. I ran across the 200 man culvern again so I had the Venetians buy it. Ain't like they don't have the cash. It is funny. I then had them attack the French with it just to see if the tactical map would load. It did. Maybe you should leave it in, lol. Also found a buildable inn in Al-Gharb, but they don't have mercs as a resource.

Well, anyway, I would post the pics if I could figure out how to do it in this forum format. I have 'em saved to My Pictures as jpeg's. Can't believe I've never put up a pic in here with the number of posts I have. I must be slipping.

WesW
08-24-2005, 19:58
Update is now posted! Enjoy.

Aenlic, I haven't received any mail from you, in case you have sent some. I did a good bit of tweaking to the Heroes for this update, so you'll want to check it out with what you have put together. Some things in the current file will probably need to be changed or moved around with all the new stuff that you are compiling. I'm really looking forward to seeing it. Once you get it organized, we can start swapping emails.

Btw, I need someone to send me a copy of their original reg_owner table file. It's in the MTW folder, and yes, this update overwrites the original. I need it to stick in the uninstall directory for the mod.
This file designates the Homelands and conquest points awarded in Glorious Achievement mode.
I have gone through and modded the file, which I borrowed from the XL mod, to show the correct provincial names, and made notes at the top of the file explaining what the entries represent. If someone wants to take this file and mod it, it would be a nice addition to the mod. If you are interested, either post or email me, and I'll work with you on it. This will take some time, and possibly research if you want it to be first-class, so don't volunteer lightly.

Now, to the update...
Basically, everything that I am aware of has been fixed or adjusted to my satisfaction, so I hope I can finally sit down and start playing this thing, rather than simply coding, fixing and adjusting.

The first thing that will strike you is the new graphics. They are all implemented now, though Big John is still cleaning up a few things. The pieces shield for the Bulgarians got over-written by the Latins' pic sometime, which is why there is a descrepancy there. Let us know how you like them, as well as my choices for the faction colors. The new Byzantine color may seen a little odd, but half the flags in the game seem to be composed of some combination of red, blue and yellow. You'd be amazed at how many hours I have spent trying to choose different combinations for all the factions while staying relatively close to their flag colors. Still, if you find yourself being distracted by anything, let me know.

All the readmes have been updated, with changes and re-writes sprinkled throughout.

The major changes (that I have noted or can remember):

Battles-
Custom battles ability turned on. During your battles, please note anything out of place or missing that you run across. I spent about half a week changing pics and running down all the errors that I could find, but there may still be a couple out there that I missed.

Strategic Map-
-Ireland land bridge to Scotland implemented. (Wales bridge not implemented after looking at the map distances.)
-Gotland enlarged slightly. I have spent more time on Gotland than any other province in the game.
-Baltic Sea tweaked to a more historically accurate division. (Patrick, if you're lurking, this tweaks for you.) And I'm glad I wrote about the crashes in my last post, since it prompted me to double-check this area, and sure enough....
-Some last adjustments to name, castle, troop and port placement. (And yes, I do deserve some kudos for tucking things so nicely into Valencia and Murcia.)
-Cuman added to the game, as a very minor faction. Probably the most difficult position in the game.

Buildings-
-Palace, Office and religious buildings added for many factions. Other unique buildings moved around to more appropriate places or to better disperse them. I actually did quite a bit of Encarta research on Iberia, Germany and France looking for historically accurate places for Cathedrals and the other Office buildings, as well as trade goods, mines and even a few castle names. Those of you who like the Almohads may like the touches.
-I also went through and matched up the starting mines with the resources present, since it turns out that mines don't produce income unless the resource is actually there.
-The Marketplace line of buildings implemented for land-locked provinces, in place of Merchants. Also available in addition to Merchants in Thrace, Venice and Gotland. They act like 4-level mines. Trade Routes required. Before, I had artifically pumped up the land value of Thrace and Venice to help off-set the devastating effects of blockades. This system allows me to set their land values to realistic levels.
-Admiralty changed to Repository, as mentioned in previous posts.
-Jihads now require a Grand Mosque instead of a Ribat.
-Crusading ability returned to the Venetians and Genoese, though they can't recruit any of the Outremer units.
-Pics for Repository, Constable's Palace and Military Academy switched around.
-Pic for Trade Routes changed to more appropriate Pewter from Viking Camp.

Units-
-Ships shuffled around to remove out-of-place Boat. Both the Italians and Byzantine lines now have Fire Galleys, but they have separate entries in the units text, so they are still restricted to their respective Homelands.
-Gunsmiths now restricted to Homelands as well.
-The deep-water Carrack switched with the more appropriate Caravel, restricted to the High era, requiring a Ship Guild. Master Shipbuilder not required for anything. I'll remove it from the game in the next update.
-Tweaked the priorities for ships; made a major change for poverty-stricken factions.
I'll be looking for reports on this topic from you guys. This is crucial aspect of the game, but it's like trying to balance an elephant on the head of a pin with the algorithms that CA devised.
-Ulama "converted" to Pagan Shaman, in place of malfunctioning Inquisitors. Grand Inq's returned to original place in the game.
-A few English units fiddled with, some Spanish unit names changed for better geographical accuracy. A lot of pics changed to better represent the units.

Misc-
Dozens and dozens of bugs and such found and squashed in all aspects of the game. (Anyone heard of how the term bug came into being? Quite interesting.)
Changed the Incest and Inbred lines of vices to less offensive topics. Having a third of your generals either banging their sisters or daughters, or turn out to the offspring of such liasions, gets to me after a while.
Incest changed to adulterous affairs and such. (With non-relatives.) We don't have access to the affects of the vices, so I had to find something else that would have a high piety hit.
I'll let you discover what I substituted for the inbreeding.
(Is it just me, or do the English have a bit of an obsession over incestuous relationships? I have run across some other instances over the years which make me wonder.
Also, this year I have caught the anime bug big-time, and I have read where incest-centered Hentai is a major segment over there in Japan, so maybe America is the odd guy here. I don't know. With the Japanese, it's usually siblings, while the Brits tend toward mother-son affairs, from what I have run across.)
Anyway, if you still notice the vice names when they pop up you may get a laugh or two out of a couple I came up with.

In conclusion-
The game should play smoothly now, so please let me know of anything you see which seems amiss, though you may want to scan the appropriate readme to see if it's mentioned, first.
Even if it is, though, like the Flemish Pike, let me know if you missed it when you read over the topic the first time, since it will also be missed by a lot of other people. Compared to other mods, and even the regular game, this mod is just a wee bit detail oriented, so I need to know if the details get overwhelming. All of them are there for solid reasons, but it's up to me to present them in a way where they will stick in your head if you do the appropriate reading.

Now that everything else has been covered or fixed, I'm ready to discuss any qualms with the factions and so-forth. Vespers, I know you had issues with the Sicilians, but I'm not sure exactly what they were based on. You mentioned different issues, but I'm not sure how you think everything should be set up. I read about the French incursion into Naples while researching some of the other stuff, but I don't think representing this would be good from a strategic aspect.
If the issue is matching things up with the exact state of affairs in 1321, then I'd be open to changing the starting date. The maps I have been using are for 1300, so I can see how some things would have changed over the course of 21 years. It's just that I have to look at ownership from a strategic aspect as it relates to gameplay, which means that you can't always be completely accurate.
Moving the date back closer to 1300 might be better for gameplay, anyway, as it would allow more time for the Late era, and units would become available earlier when you start one of the other campaigns.
(Actually, you can customize this in the respective campaigns independently of the others, but that might lead to confusion...or not. If anyone has opinions on this, speak up.)

Aenlic
08-24-2005, 20:19
I sent it last week, Wes! I'll send it again. It should go to your apolyton.net address?

I didn't send it as an attachment, just cut and pasted the file into the message body. I'll send it again. In fact, I'll send two. One via email from the forum here and one via the email link to you on apolyton.net as well.

Re: the heroes and kings stuff. I have been unable to locate any names of famous heroes for the Cumans -late era and the Novgorods - early era. There's an explanation of my confusion regarding the Novgorods in the info.

I also included the necessary ["yadda"] {"yadda"} names.txt and "yadda" heroes.txt stuff for those lists which needed it, t make it easier for you to cut and paste.

Aenlic
08-24-2005, 20:29
(Anyone heard of how the term bug came into being? Quite interesting.)

Yes! And the sad part is, the guy who won the first million on the TV show Millionaire knew it as well. I'm sitting there watching as the question pops up and screaming "Moth! Moth!" and there it is in the answer list. You could almost see the guy visibly relax. Lucky bugger.

Aenlic
08-24-2005, 20:38
Office buildings, as well as trade goods, mines and even a few castle names. Those of you who like the Almohads may like the touches.

Wonderful news. I was looking through the list of castle names recently and couldn't understand why CA was able to spend the effort to find the names of some more obscure medieval castles; but then couldn't be bothered to spend a couple of minutes to find a good name for some of the castles in Iberia from the huge list of castles built from the period of the Kaliphate to the Reconquista and still standing in some places.

On the subject of mines, come to think of it, I came across a web site the other day with some good info on the Volga Bulgars. It seems that Volga Bulgar silver work was well-known throughout Europe and highly prized. That seems to suggest a need for silver as a resource in Volga Bulgaria, which would certainly help the resource poor steppes factions.

Aenlic
08-24-2005, 23:23
A couple of notes from my first quick foray into the new version.

Kudos guys!

Big John, the graphics are wonderful. I especially love the new Almohad florette flag.

Wes, the colors look great. Everything blends pretty well. I did a quick tour in god mode and they all come out great, at least on my monitor.


There's a bug with the pic for the pagan faction buildings. For both the Cumans and the Horde, the construction queue window pics are off. The text descirptions are correct, just an error in the pics. For the repository, it shows an odd greek looking building on a brown background with the words "constables_palace" over it. For the chancellery, same pic with the text "chancellery" and for the constable's palace the same pic with the text "military academy" on it. None of the other factions have the problem, so it's just pagan and it seems to only be the high end buildings.

Big_John
08-25-2005, 00:06
hey thanks man, i worked hard on some of them! ~D

btw, i took inspiration for the almohad flag from the famous banner captured at las navas de tolosa. it's probably my favorite too. ~;) some graphics are quite speculative (i.e. the egyptian ones), so let me know if you guys have any ideas. i don't have much time to work on the graphics these days, but i can do small things over the coming weeks.

i sent wes an update for the graphics after he made this release, so he should have some new graphics up when he gets a chance.

wes, sorry about the faction color problem, when i was making the graphics i was thinking, "boy, there sure are a lot of red and yellow flags..." i tried to play with hues where i could.

Big_John
08-25-2005, 00:44
ok, some first thoughts!

for colors, you could make the bugundians a lighter blue. it's a bit hard to tell their color apart form the french. instead of green/green for the byzantines, how about red/green (with green being the map color). and i think a darker green would work better.. assuming there are no transparency issues. everything else looks pretty good, imo.

there are some things i would change about the starting provinces too, but i'll get to that later.

you'll notice that some of the factions have "muslim" shield types (roundish) when they should have "christian" style shields (heater). this should be taken care of in the gfx update i sent to wes.

also, i should thank Ranika & Mouzafphaere for help in making some of the faction graphics. hat should be in the readme (it may already be, i'm not sure). also, most of the cuman graphics were made by VikingHorde, thanks for saving me that work VH! ~D

SicilianVespers
08-25-2005, 14:07
Now that everything else has been covered or fixed, I'm ready to discuss any qualms with the factions and so-forth. Vespers, I know you had issues with the Sicilians, but I'm not sure exactly what they were based on. You mentioned different issues, but I'm not sure how you think everything should be set up. I read about the French incursion into Naples while researching some of the other stuff, but I don't think representing this would be good from a strategic aspect.
If the issue is matching things up with the exact state of affairs in 1321, then I'd be open to changing the starting date. The maps I have been using are for 1300, so I can see how some things would have changed over the course of 21 years. It's just that I have to look at ownership from a strategic aspect as it relates to gameplay, which means that you can't always be completely accurate.
Moving the date back closer to 1300 might be better for gameplay, anyway, as it would allow more time for the Late era, and units would become available earlier when you start one of the other campaigns.
(Actually, you can customize this in the respective campaigns independently of the others, but that might lead to confusion...or not. If anyone has opinions on this, speak up.)


Wes,
My point was that Sicily was independent of Aragon. Frederick III was king of Sicily from 1296 - 1337. He was crowned by the Nobles in Palermo in 1296, when Aragon agreed to turn over Sicily to the Angevins. He was the Champion of Sicilian independence.

If you are unable to center the Sicilian faction in Sicily, for game play reasons. I would suggest renaming the current "Sicilian" faction to the Angevins, and rename the Aragonese to the Catalans or the Catalan Confederacy. This way Sicily and Aragon are two distinct Kingdoms in the Catalan confederacy.

My other point was that the Aragonese should be able to build units in Sicily, it should definitely be a homeland territory for them. In this case the Sicilian Knights should be buildable ONLY in Sicily, by the Aragonese/Catalans and the Angevins.

The current setup makes it appear as though the Angevins are the legitimate Sicilians driven out of Sicily. In truth, it was the Sicilians that drove the Angevins out of Sicily....this was the Sicilian Vespers. The Sicilian rebellion against French oppression.

SicilianVespers
08-25-2005, 15:15
Frederick III of Sicily
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_III_of_Sicily

Frederick III (or II) (1272—1337), King of Sicily, was the third son of King Peter III of Aragon and Sicily, and of Constance, daughter of Manfred. He chose to call himself "Frederick III" because he was the third son of another Sicilian king, Peter, even though he was actually only the second King Frederick to occupy the Sicilian throne. The next man called Frederick to occupy the Sicilian throne was also known as Frederick III: Frederick III the Simple.

Peter died in 1285, leaving Aragon to his eldest son Alfonso III of Aragon, and Sicily to his second son James. When Alfonso died in 1291 James became king James II of Aragon, and left his brother Frederick as regent of Sicily. The war between the Angevins and the Aragonese for the possession of Sicily was still in progress, and although the Aragonese were successful in Italy James’s position in Spain became very insecure to internal troubles and French attacks. Peace negotiations were begun with Charles of Anjou, but were interrupted by the successive deaths of two popes; at last under the auspices of Pope Boniface VIII, James concluded a shameful treaty, by which, in exchange for being left undisturbed in Aragon and promised possession of Sardinia and Corsica, he gave up Sicily to the Church, for whom it was to be held by the Angevins (1295). The Sicilians refused to be made over once more to the hated French whom they had expelled in 1282 (Sicilian Vespers), and found a national leader in the regent Frederick. In vain the pope tried to bribe him with promises and dignities; he was determined to stand by his subjects, and was crowned king by the nobles at Palermo in 1296. Young, brave and handsome, he won the love and devotion of his people, and guided them through the long years of storm and stress with wisdom and ability. Although the second Frederick of Sicily, he called himself third, being the third son of King Peter. He reformed the administration and extended the powers of the Sicilian parliament, which was composed of the barons, the prelates and the representatives of the towns.

His refusal to comply with the pope's injunctions led to a renewal of the war. Frederick landed in Calabria, where he seized several towns, encouraged revolt in Naples, negotiated with the Ghibellines of Tuscany and Lombardy, and assisted the house of Colonna against Pope Boniface. In the meanwhile James, who received many favours from the Church, married his sister Yolanda to Robert, the third son of Charles II. Unfortunately for Frederick, a part of the Aragonese nobles of Sicily favoured King James, and both John of Procida and Roger of Lauria, the heroes of the war of the Vespers, went over to the Angevins, and the latter completely defeated the Sicilian fleet off Cape Orlando. Charles’s sons Robert and Philip landed in Sicily, but after capturing Catania were defeated by Frederick, Philip being taken prisoner (1299), while several Calabrian towns were captured by the Sicilians. For two years more the fighting continued with varying success, until Charles of Valois, who had been sent by Boniface to invade Sicily, was forced to sue for peace, his army being decimated by the plague, and in August 1302 the treaty of Caltabellotta was signed, by which Frederick was recognized king of Trinacria (the name Sicily was not to be used) for his lifetime, and was to marry Eleonora, the daughter of Charles II; at his death the kingdom was to revert to the Angevins (this clause was inserted chiefly to save Charles’s face), and his children would receive compensation elsewhere. Boniface tried to induce King Charles to break the treaty, but the latter was only too anxious for peace, and finally in May 1303 the pope ratified it, Frederick agreeing to pay him a tribute.

For a few years Sicily enjoyed peace, and the kingdom was reorganized. But on the descent of the emperor Henry VII, Frederick entered into an alliance with him, and in violation of the pact of Caltabellotta made war on the Angevins again (1313) and captured Reggio. He set sail for Tuscany to cooperate with the emperor, but on the latter’s death he returned to Sicily. Robert, who had succeeded Charles II in 1309, made several raids into the island, which suffered much material injury. A truce was concluded in 1317, but as the Sicilians helped the north Italian Ghibellines in the attack on Genoa, and Frederick seized some Church revenues for military purposes, Pope John XXII excommunicated him and placed the island under an interdict (1321) which lasted until 1335. An Angevin fleet and army, under Robert's son Charles, was defeated at Palermo by Giovanni da Chiaramonte in 1325, and in 1326 and 1327 there were further Angevin raids on the island, until the descent into Italy of the emperor Louis the Bavarian distracted their attention. The election of Pope Benedict XII (1334), who was friendly to Frederick, promised a respite; but after fruitless negotiations the war broke out once more, and Chiaramonte went over to Robert, owing to a private feud. In 1337 Frederick died at Paternione, and in spite of the peace of Caltabellotta his son Peter II of Sicily succeeded. Frederick’s great merit was that during his reign the Aragonese dynasty became thoroughly national and helped to weld the Sicilians into a united people.

Belisario
08-25-2005, 19:12
Finally I have achieved make a complete new list of medieval names for the spanish faction (castilian-leonese).

// spanish_forenames
ADD_FORENAMES::
"Alfonso"
"Sancho"
"Fernando"
"Enrique"
"Pedro"
"Juan" // ONLY FIRST 6 ARE VALID KING NAMES

"Adolfo"
"Alfonso"
"Álvar"
"Alvito"
"Amentario"
"Amor"
"Ansuro"
"Antonio"
"Arias"
"Asur"
"Auderico"
"Aznaro"
"Beltrán"
"Bermudo"
"Bernardo"
"Cresconio"
"Diego"
"Domingo"
"Ederoño"
"Enrique"
"Ermegildo"
"Ero"
"Esteban"
"Fadrique"
"Fagildo"
"Félez"
"Fernán"
"Fernando"
"Fortún"
"Francisco"
"Froila"
"García"
"Gelmiro"
"Gerardo"
"Gocelmo"
"Godesteo"
"Gómez"
"Gonsalvo"
"Gonzalo"
"Gutier"
"Íñigo"
"Jimeno"
"Juan"
"Julián"
"Lope"
"Manrique"
"Martín"
"Mendo"
"Menendo"
"Miguel"
"Muño"
"Nuño"
"Ordoño"
"Osmundo"
"Osorio"
"Oveco"
"Pedro"
"Pelayo"
"Pero"
"Ramiro"
"Ramón"
"Roberto"
"Rodrigo"
"Ruy"
"Salvador"
"Sancho"
"Suero"
"Tello"
"Vela"
"Velasco"
"Vellido"
"Vicente"
"Vimaro"

// spanish_surnames
ADD_SURNAMES::
"Raimúndez" //Royal surname

"Alfónsez"
"Alguacil"
"Álvarez"
"Ansúrez"
"Antolínez"
"Armíldez"
"Aznárez"
"Bermúdez"
"Braóliz"
"Dávalos"
"Díaz"
"Enríquez"
"Fáñez"
"Fróilaz"
"Fernández"
"Garcés"
"Gelmírez"
"Girón"
"González"
"Gustioz"
"Gutiérrez"
"Hurtado"
"Íñiguez"
"Jiménez"
"Laínez"
"López"
"Manrique"
"Márquez"
"Martínez"
"Méndez"
"Mongomáriz"
"Muñoz"
"Núñez"
"Ordóñez"
"Ortiz"
"Osórez"
"Ovéquiz"
"Peláez"
"Pérez"
"Raimúndez"
"Ramírez"
"Rodríguez"
"Ruiz"
"Salvadórez"
"Sánchez"
"Suárez"
"Téllez"
"Vanigómez"
"Vélaz"
"Velloso"
"Vicéntez"
"Yáñez"

"de Ayala"
"de Aza"
"de Azagra"
"de Cameros"
"de Carrión"
"de Castro"
"de la Cerda"
"de Figueroa"
"de Guevara"
"de Guzmán"
"de Haro"
"de Hinojosa"
"de Lara"
"de Mena"
"de Mendoza"
"de Meneses"
"de Molina"
"de Osorio"
"de Quiñones"
"de Rada"
"de Rojas"
"de Saldaña"
"de Traba"
"de Trastámara"
"de Velasco"
"de Villalobos"
"de Villena"
"de Vivar"

// spanish_princesses
ADD_PRINCESS::
"Beatriz"
"Berenguela"
"Blanca"
"Cristina"
"Elvira"
"Isabel"
"Jimena"
"Juana"
"Leonor"
"María"
"Munia"
"Sancha"
"Teresa"
"Urraca"
"Violante"

// spanish_forenames
["Alfonso"] {"Alfonso"}
["Sancho"] {"Sancho"}
["Fernando"] {"Fernando"}
["Enrique"] {"Enrique"}
["Pedro"] {"Pedro"}
["Juan"] {"Juan"}
["Adolfo"] {"Adolfo"}
["Alfonso"] {"Alfonso"}
["Álvar"] {"Álvar"}
["Alvito"] {"Alvito"}
["Amentario"] {"Amentario"}
["Amor"] {"Amor"}
["Ansuro"] {"Ansuro"}
["Antonio"] {"Antonio"}
["Arias"] {"Arias"}
["Asur"] {"Asur"}
["Auderico"] {"Auderico"}
["Aznaro"] {"Aznaro"}
["Beltrán"] {"Beltrán"}
["Bermudo"] {"Bermudo"}
["Bernardo"] {"Bernardo"}
["Cresconio"] {"Cresconio"}
["Diego"] {"Diego"}
["Domingo"] {"Domingo"}
["Ederoño"] {"Ederoño"}
["Enrique"] {"Enrique"}
["Ermegildo"] {"Ermegildo"}
["Ero"] {"Ero"}
["Esteban"] {"Esteban"}
["Fadrique"] {"Fadrique"}
["Fagildo"] {"Fagildo"}
["Félez"] {"Félez"}
["Fernán"] {"Fernán"}
["Fernando"] {"Fernando"}
["Fortún"] {"Fortún"}
["Francisco"] {"Francisco"}
["Froila"] {"Froila"}
["García"] {"García"}
["Gelmiro"] {"Gelmiro"}
["Gerardo"] {"Gerardo"}
["Gocelmo"] {"Gocelmo"}
["Godesteo"] {"Godesteo"}
["Gómez"] {"Gómez"}
["Gonsalvo"] {"Gonsalvo"}
["Gonzalo"] {"Gonzalo"}
["Gutier"] {"Gutier"}
["Íñigo"] {"Íñigo"}
["Jimeno"] {"Jimeno"}
["Juan"] {"Juan"}
["Julián"] {"Julián"}
["Lope"] {"Lope"}
["Manrique"] {"Manrique"}
["Martín"] {"Martín"}
["Mendo"] {"Mendo"}
["Menendo"] {"Menendo"}
["Miguel"] {"Miguel"}
["Muño"] {"Muño"}
["Nuño"] {"Nuño"}
["Ordoño"] {"Ordoño"}
["Osmundo"] {"Osmundo"}
["Osorio"] {"Osorio"}
["Oveco"] {"Oveco"}
["Pedro"] {"Pedro"}
["Pelayo"] {"Pelayo"}
["Pero"] {"Pero"}
["Ramiro"] {"Ramiro"}
["Ramón"] {"Ramón"}
["Roberto"] {"Roberto"}
["Rodrigo"] {"Rodrigo"}
["Ruy"] {"Ruy"}
["Salvador"] {"Salvador"}
["Sancho"] {"Sancho"}
["Suero"] {"Suero"}
["Tello"] {"Tello"}
["Vela"] {"Vela"}
["Velasco"] {"Velasco"}
["Vellido"] {"Vellido"}
["Vicente"] {"Vicente"}
["Vimaro"] {"Vimaro"}

// spanish_surnames
["Raimúndez"] {"Raimúndez"}
["Alfónsez"] {"Alfónsez"}
["Alguacil"] {"Alguacil"}
["Álvarez"] {"Álvarez"}
["Ansúrez"] {"Ansúrez"}
["Antolínez"] {"Antolínez"}
["Armíldez"] {"Armíldez"}
["Aznárez"] {"Aznárez"}
["Bermúdez"] {"Bermúdez"}
["Braóliz"] {"Braóliz"}
["Dávalos"] {"Dávalos"}
["Díaz"] {"Díaz"}
["Enríquez"] {"Enríquez"}
["Fáñez"] {"Fáñez"}
["Fróilaz"] {"Fróilaz"}
["Fernández"] {"Fernández"}
["Garcés"] {"Garcés"}
["Gelmírez"] {"Gelmírez"}
["Girón"] {"Girón"}
["González"] {"González"}
["Gustioz"] {"Gustioz"}
["Gutiérrez"] {"Gutiérrez"}
["Hurtado"] {"Hurtado"}
["Íñiguez"] {"Íñiguez"}
["Jiménez"] {"Jiménez"}
["Laínez"] {"Laínez"}
["López"] {"López"}
["Manrique"] {"Manrique"}
["Márquez"] {"Márquez"}
["Martínez"] {"Martínez"}
["Méndez"] {"Méndez"}
["Mongomáriz"] {"Mongomáriz"}
["Muñoz"] {"Muñoz"}
["Núñez"] {"Núñez"}
["Ordóñez"] {"Ordóñez"}
["Ortiz"] {"Ortiz"}
["Osórez"] {"Osórez"}
["Ovéquiz"] {"Ovéquiz"}
["Peláez"] {"Peláez"}
["Pérez"] {"Pérez"}
["Raimúndez"] {"Raimúndez"}
["Ramírez"] {"Ramírez"}
["Rodríguez"] {"Rodríguez"}
["Ruiz"] {"Ruiz"}
["Salvadórez"] {"Salvadórez"}
["Sánchez"] {"Sánchez"}
["Suárez"] {"Suárez"}
["Téllez"] {"Téllez"}
["Vanigómez"] {"Vanigómez"}
["Vélaz"] {"Vélaz"}
["Velloso"] {"Velloso"}
["Vicéntez"] {"Vicéntez"}
["Yáñez"] {"Yáñez"}

["de Ayala"] {"de Ayala"}
["de Aza"] {"de Aza"}
["de Azagra"] {"de Azagra"}
["de Cameros"] {"de Cameros"}
["de Carrión"] {"de Carrión"}
["de Castro"] {"de Castro"}
["de la Cerda"] {"de la Cerda"}
["de Figueroa"] {"de Figueroa"}
["de Guevara"] {"de Guevara"}
["de Guzmán"] {"de Guzmán"}
["de Haro"] {"de Haro"}
["de Hinojosa"] {"de Hinojosa"}
["de Lara"] {"de Lara"}
["de Mena"] {"de Mena"}
["de Mendoza"] {"de Mendoza"}
["de Meneses"] {"de Meneses"}
["de Molina"] {"de Molina"}
["de Osorio"] {"de Osorio"}
["de Quiñones"] {"de Quiñones"}
["de Rada"] {"de Rada"}
["de Rojas"] {"de Rojas"}
["de Saldaña"] {"de Saldaña"}
["de Traba"] {"de Traba"}
["de Trastámara"] {"de Trastámara"}
["de Velasco"] {"de Velasco"}
["de Villalobos"] {"de Villalobos"}
["de Villena"] {"de Villena"}
["de Vivar"] {"de Vivar"}

// spanish_princesses
["Beatriz"] {"Beatriz"}
["Berenguela"] {"Berenguela"}
["Blanca"] {"Blanca"}
["Cristina"] {"Cristina"}
["Elvira"] {"Elvira"}
["Isabel"] {"Isabel"}
["Jimena"] {"Jimena"}
["Juana"] {"Juana"}
["Leonor"] {"Leonor"}
["María"] {"María"}
["Munia"] {"Munia"}
["Sancha"] {"Sancha"}
["Teresa"] {"Teresa"}
["Urraca"] {"Urraca"}
["Violante"] {"Violante"}

Belisario
08-25-2005, 20:03
I have make too a new five heroes for the spanish. I can post more heroes for various factions but I need time.

"Raimundo", "de Borgoña", 1060, 2, 4, 4, 5, 6, lawman1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Son of William the Great of Burgundy. Came to Spain to fight in the disastrous Battle of Sagrajas in 1086. Appointed Count of Galicia and married to Queen Urraca, daughter of Alfonso VI. Decreed legal successor to the throne, but died prematurely in 1107. Father of the king Alfonso VII the Emperor.

"Álvar", "Fáñez", 1064, 4, 3, 5, 4, 8, fearsome2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Nephew of the Cid. Prominent figure in the court of Alfonso VI the Brave. Alfonso's envoy to the kings of Taifas. Governor of Toledo: leadership in the defense of the city during the almoravid siege of 1109. Recovered Cuenca in 1111. Killed in 1114 while defending Queen Urraca's cause against the aragonese.

"Pedro", "González de Lara", 1080, 5, 5, 4, 3, 5, mightywarrior2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Distinguished noble of the powerful Lara family. Extremely powerful in Castile. Exerted great influence in the court of Alfonso VI and during the reign of Queen Urraca fought for his cause against the aragonese. But later allied himself with Alfonso I of Aragon and was reluctant to submit to the authority of Alfonso VII. Banished and killed in a duel in 1130.

"Manrique", "Pérez de Lara", 1110, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, charismatic2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Son of Pedro González de Lara, enjoyed the same power and prestige as his father in the castilian court. Royal standard-bearer ("Alférez Real") during most of the reign of Alfonso VII. Principal nobleman of Sancho II the Desired. Tutor and regent of Alfonso VIII. Killed by the chief of Castro family (rival of the Lara family) in 1164.

"Diego", "López de Haro", 1168, 4, 4, 6, 3, 8, attacker2, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Distinguished noble of the ancient Haro family. Lord of Vizcaya. Royal standard-bearer ("Alférez Real") and best friend of Alfonso VIII the Noble. Commanded the vanguard of the army in the successful Battle of Navas de Tolosa in 1212. Died in 1214.

I hope you enjoy.

Belisario
08-25-2005, 20:36
Where I can download the new update? :help:

Aenlic
08-25-2005, 21:20
Here are the links from wes.apolyton.net for the new download. Just left click on the links below and select "Save":

Download and install first - Medmod_IV_v4_Graphics.exe (http://wes.apolyton.net/Medmod_IV_v4_Graphics.exe)

Then download and install second - Medmod_IV_v4_Texts.exe (http://wes.apolyton.net/Medmod_IV_v4_Texts.exe)

That's it. You shouldn't need anything else. You might want to start with a clean, unmodded version of MTW:VI, just in case.

Big_John
08-25-2005, 21:54
if you have a fast connection, or patience, grab the new map texture also.
http://wes.apolyton.net/Medmod_IV_v4_Maptex.exe

Aenlic
08-25-2005, 22:58
There's a new map texture with the new update? It looks the same to me.

Big_John
08-25-2005, 23:25
oh no, you're right (afaik). it's not new, i just meant in general.

ToranagaSama
08-26-2005, 00:12
Just a few quick observations:

The changes to the Sicilians are interesting right off the bat (haven't hit end turn yet). Malta kaput! Interesting. Is this permanent? The compensation for the elimination of Malta is interesting as well. The Sicilians have gone from a dirth of Knights to an abundance. So the necessity to expend precious (initial) Florins to build a Knight, as well as the Cost and Turns to *build-up* to Knight capability has been severely reduced.. This should GREATLY effect the Sicilian game.

So, now we have Provence. Nice surprise, very interesting.

One thing, the Sicilians now open with the *Offices*, "Grand Chancellor of Sicily", and "Grand Senschal of Sicily---only problem, they don't own Sicily, Aragon does. But, that won't be for long.... ;)

Peaked my interest and I haven't even hit End Turn yet.!!!!

---

Ok, a couple of things I noted:

a) The Venetian *Stack* color is Gray, rather than the Venetian "blue".

b) Also, I noted that on the Battle Deployment screen there is an inconsistency regarding the Faction shields. I took a screenshot a will email it to you. The Pope has invaded Campania, I am defending, and playing Sicilian. Under "Your Forces", the Pope's shield is displayed. It s/b the Scilian shield. Under "Enemy Forces", it is the Novogrod (or what used to be the Novogrod) shield that is displayed. It s/b the Pope's shield.

In the event that b) isn't clear I'm emailing the screenshot.

---

Dude, I think you may have out did yourself in terms of Faction balance in the Eastern Med and Adriatic. With the possible exeption of the Venetians, not sure yet. I will say one thing, the Venetians are stringing their ships in a very intelligent human-like fashion---whatever you did, this *update* is an improvement. Though, they may still be a bit too dominating, the jury is still out on this.

---

Going to have some dinner and play some more.

Thank you.

Big_John
08-26-2005, 02:13
yup. looks like the papacy is the 17th faction declared, so it's using the prebat shield for the 17th faction slot (which is novgorod). the right graphics are there, they're just not being used.

similarly, the venetians are using the italian slot, so their prebat shield is using the old italian one. same for the germans, burgundians, byzantines, turks.. probably others as well. i think there is some hardcode getting in the way here. but it may just be an oversight.

worst comes to worst, i think wes could simply have his installer overwrite the original prebat shields with the new ones, and include the original bifs in the "uninstall" directory.

Greeny
08-26-2005, 22:09
Some things I've noticed playing as the Byzantines:
The Kataphraktoi sprites are messed up (torsos at 90 degrees from where they should be or something).
It's still possible to recriut mercenary Serpentine crews of 60 and Culverin crews of 120 troops.
The leader of the Outremer States is called
"Master Raymondroman_numerals##-1!!".
The Outremer States' shield as displayed in the Alliances screen and at the top right hand corner of some scrolls is still the old cresent moon one.
On the Alliances screen all factions display:
"The (faction name)of-inline//(faction number)!!This_label_does_not_exist!!" when hovered over.

Also MTW seems to have an infuriating tendency to sometimes crash while finishing the turn after I have just one a tough battle and usually when I have just killed an enemy king in that battle >:( (this has happed after killing the Burgundaian and Turkish Kings for me :( ). I don't know whether this is because of MedMod or just general instablilty in MTW.

WesW
08-27-2005, 10:54
Good reports, guys. Keep 'um comming.
Kudos to you guys working on the faction names, heroes, etc. I spent a good deal of time in the heroes text for this past update, and I was struck by the dearth of heroes for some of the major factions. This seems to be another area which was a low priority, or was dropped in the squeeze to get the game finished, since the English and French have long lists, while some others don't have hardly any. It's like they never made a second, more detailed pass at filling out this area of the game.

Btw, the texmap portion is new. It shows the landbridge between Ireland and Scotland, the new partition if the Baltic, and the changes to Gotland, along with a couple of aestetic changes. As noted on the webpage, this is the file used for the lowest resolution setting on the strategic map, so you won't need it if you use a higher setting.

The graphics for the Kats will be fixed in the next update. The last time I changed their texture, I forgot to update the mod file. It looked fine in my games. ~;)
I noticed the alliance error last night while playing, but I don't know what is causing it at the moment.
I too had a glitch when coming out of a battle, where the windows toolbar kept flashing up in the screen. My game didn't crash, however. I pray this isn't something related to the new graphics.
I recently read where some people are having trouble with the new Nvidia drivers, so if you have that card, as I do, you may want to check out the thread in the Main Hall, though this is normally discussed in the Apothecary.
This isn't the first Nvidia update which has caused trouble with Mtw, and I have heard rumors that the Civ IV beta had been having trouble with the Nvidia cards, too. The next time I get a new card, I think I'm going to check out Atp, or whatever that other brand is called.

I went ahead and switched ownership of Provence and Sicily between the Aragonese and Sicilians. IIRC, this is the way it is in the High era. Provence is outside the Aragonese homeland, too, but at least it's closer to their center of power. I moved the Sicilian capital back to Sicily, too. Thanks for the encyclopedia paste, Vespers. That's a complicated history to try and sort out.

Myself, I have been trying to start a new game as the Germans. Gotta love those gang-bangs. I have ended up making several changes to their starting units and buildings, so I guess I need to play a few rounds as the other main factions, too. Since there are so many factions now, there's not much way I can get to all of them, so let me know here of any particular irritations you come across.
Basically, you should have at least one province capable of building any of the Early and High-era units, except perhaps for the smallest factions, and the larger factions should have the abilities spread out, so that you don't have to use your capital to make spearmen, for example.

Aenlic
08-27-2005, 17:03
Wes, if you need more heroes for factions other than the ones you listed back in that post I used as a template, just say the word.

I've been feeding my need to be a masochist by playing the Cumans. I've tried 6 times now, finally giving up and turning the difficulty down each time. My best so far is to last until 1350, at which point the Horde finished off the Lithuanians and the Novgorods and decided I looked juicy. I even managed to take another province and actually keep it for a more than a few turns, but that was on easy setting, and the Hungarians weren't appreciative of losing it and were the culprits in my eventual demise in that game. No one wants to ally with the Cumans, poor buggers. I definitely recommend against playing as the Cumans, unless you're just a glutton for treachery, punishment and misery. ~:)

The Almohads may need to be toned down just a tad, or the rest of Iberia beefed up a bit. In all my games so far on the other side of Europe, like clockwork, I get an announcement first that the Spanish have been destroyed, then the Portuguese, and sometimes right after that, the Aragonese (if the Sicilians have taken out Siciliy). The culprit is always the Almohads. Curious, I decided to try the Almohads on hard setting. With ridiculous ease, I took out Cordoba and Murcia on the third turn after moving some troops up from Africa, while the Spanish and Portuguese went to war. In 10 turns, Iberia was mine. After that it was a breeze to go after Egypt and then the Turks. The world was a foregone conclusion then. It had to be the quickest win I've ever had at hard setting.

Belisario
08-27-2005, 19:38
Hello guys! The new shields and flags are very goods, especially the almohads and the danish. I would like know how to make these shields and flags, above all the battle flags.
I agree with Wes that some factions have a lot of heroes and others few. This is a factor of imbalance. I think that twenty heroes for major factions and ten for minor factions are good numbers, but in many cases is difficult find information about historical heroes.
I'll try find new heroes for some of these factions. :book:

Big_John
08-27-2005, 21:48
hi belisario, thanks for the compliments. i use a fairly complex method for making the new graphics. there's probably a much easier way, but i'm new to image editing! ~:handball: i use gimpshop, which is a free image editing program.

generally, this is my method:

1. i need to make a blank greyscale template from the existing graphics. so here's how i do that:

i use readbif.exe to make a bitmap from an existing bif. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/7692/readbif7bz.jpg)
i open the bitmap in gimpshop and convert it to greyscale. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/8404/greyscale3yz.jpg)
i edit (by hand) the image if needed. for example, if i'm using the english shield for a template, i need to remove the lions from the template. i mostly use the pencil and clone tools for this step. (this took by far the longest time, btw). IMAGE (http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/1147/edit33ck.jpg) --> IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/3987/dark9ed.jpg)
brightness\contrast changes are made to the template as needed. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/3987/dark9ed.jpg) --> IMAGE (http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8173/lighten6lj.jpg)


now i have a general template that i can use to make all the new graphics (for this shield type). i do similar things for all the graphics types (battle flags, castle flags, unit shields, etc).

2. i use the templates to make a new graphics using a new pattern:

i need to find a new pattern. i used historically accurate flags where i could. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/9920/newflag8dj.jpg)
i resize the new pattern to fit the new graphic i'm using. i use irfanview instead of gimpshop for resizing because it has better interpolation options. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/6804/resize5vx.jpg)
i open the appropriate template in gimpshop and i copy/paste the resized image from irfanview into gimpshop. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/8992/paste2le.jpg)
i overlay the image and edit it to fit the template shape as needed. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/6186/edit23ib.jpg)
i copy the overlayed image, and paste it into a new layer over the original template. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/8297/layers1gh.jpg)
i change the opacity of the overlay so that the shading from the template comes through. then i flatten the image. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/7949/transparent7im.jpg)
i edit the new image in a few different ways. mostly i'm changing the lightness/saturation and/or the brightness/contrast. specifically what is adjusted depends on the specific image. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/6048/adjust8fy.jpg)
eventually, i get an image i like. i save the new bitmap. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/2010/done1vm.jpg)


3. the last thing i need to do is turn the new bitmap back into a bif file so the game can use it. i use the dragon editor to do this (i get better results with dragon that with readbif).

first i need to convert the images to 8-bit color (bifs use 8-bit color). i use irfanview to do this because it has a batch conversion feature. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/3991/batch7qd.jpg)
i open the 8-bit bitmap in the dragon editor and save it as a bif. IMAGE (http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/2619/dragon1fr.jpg)


conversion to 8-bit can lead to some ugliness in the new image, so check for that. other than that, the bif is ready to be implemented in the game. i'm sure i left lots of things out, so feel free to ask questions (however, i don't have a ton of time to devote to answering them).


gimpshop: http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241
irfanview: http://www.irfanview.com/
readbif: http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/Tools/TEST_readbif23a.zip
dragon editor: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=33392&page=1

some flag picture & info websites i used:
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/alexflags/
http://flagspot.net/flags/index.html
http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Accueil.htm
http://perso.modulonet.fr/~earlyblazo/
http://users.panola.com/AAGHS/manluk.html
http://vector-images.com/catalogue.php
http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/index.html
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~heraldry/page_islam.html

Aenlic
08-28-2005, 00:05
Wow. Big John, that is without a doubt the best and easiest explanation of making faction flags that I have ever seen. You need to make a copy of this for the Repository and get Barocca or BKB to sticky it there. Others need this info, man!

Big_John
08-28-2005, 00:38
oh, you think? ok, i'll PM barocca and bkb.

edit: glad you liked it, btw. :thumbsup:

Lord Ovaat
08-28-2005, 01:29
Oh, man, but I love to watch professionals work. You guys always impress me. I might not have the knowledge & skills to make the mod, but I do have the patience to test it, LOL. Anyway, I had mentioned to Wes in a mail that I've been getting a lot of random crashes with the newest version. I've only been able to pin-point the cause in a couple of instances, ie, the English completing a master merchant will cause a CTD every time. Another I can remember was a Spanish re-emergence in Cordoba against the Venetians. Locked everything up.


So, after reading earlier this afternoon in the forum and getting a mail from Wes on the same subject, I wanted to make sure the problem isn't my machine. First off, my card is an ATI Radeon 9800Pro, 128mb, and I use Omega drivers, because I also use this machine to play FPS games with my Clan. I've never had a problem with any Activision or Creative Assembly program. I figure the problem is with the mod, but where?

I haven't actually been playing campaigns, just testing the mod with auto-run. I generally pick any faction that can be "re-acquired" with IAN, and before the first move, assume the Papacy. Reason for that is the game will generally run uninterupted with me as that faction. No one attacks them. So, I can hit "a" for auto-run, and go watch TV or something for a bit. I'll check every now and then to make sure it hasn't CTD'd. I'll change factions at that time and see what the other blokes are up to. If there is a CTD, I'll reload the auto-save and try to figure the cause. Problem is, if the cause lies with one of the factions we can't access with IAN, then I'll never find the bug. I have not had a campaign go to the finish with the new mod. The longest one has only run to 1387.

My next approach was to assure myself that the basic program is still viable. I loaded some new campaigns using the Late Era instead of MedMod Late. Using the same tactics as with the mod, the campaigns ran smoothly to the end, at which time I receive the message that "while I survived until blah, blah, I have not...." Of course I lost. I was outside in the garden, LOL. Well the regular Late Era is now kinda odd, with some of the mod units, the new map, which isn't all accessable or even used, and some strange re-positioning of factions. Egypt starts out with Sinai in northern Aquitaine. I might play that later. ~D

Now, the point to all this, I feel the CTD's are related to either the new graphics or possibly some text anomalies, such as, the English attempting a Master Merchant, or an un-lockable faction building something it shouldn't. I really don't know; I ran the tests and am passing this on for you guys to figure out. Hopefully, it will give some point of reference. I'll continue to forward anything else I can come up with. Good luck. This mod should be a lot of fun when completed. Thanks to all.

Aenlic
08-28-2005, 03:20
I hadn't tried using -ian and then switching to the Papacy. Great idea.

Big_John
08-28-2005, 06:29
anyone have a good idea for historical faction graphics for the georgian kingdom?

Aenlic
08-28-2005, 06:39
Best I can find is the info on flags-of-the-world.net for the Georgian flag. Apparently the one in use now, the 5 red crosses on a white background was originally described by a Franciscan monk in the 14th century as being the flag of Georgia. Although there seems to be some argument as to whether this was really a flag of Armenia.

http://www.flags-of-the-world.net/flags/ge.html

I'd suggest couping the main cross though, like the flag of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, since one source suggests that as an origin of the flag as well, and that it was brought back to Georgia in that manner.

Revenant
08-28-2005, 11:44
"I noticed the alliance error last night while playing, but I don't know what is causing it at the moment."

....

It is because appropriate text data are not incuded in "NAMES.TXT" file. Add this:


// To be concatonated with the above names.
@["of_culture"]
@{""}
@{", a Pagan faction."}
@{", a Catholic faction."}
@{", an Orthodox faction."}
@{", a Muslim faction."}

there and bug is gone.

Revenant
08-28-2005, 11:51
Hey, WesW!

I sent you mail where I offered to edit "REGOWNER_TABLE" file for your mod. You did not answer, so I offer it again, here ~;)

Belisario
08-28-2005, 12:02
Thanks for your information Big John! It´s really good.
Would you make new shields and flags for the spanish faction? The current shields are simplistic. It must be similar to the BKBMod, with the arms of Leon and Castile. ~:)

Big_John
08-28-2005, 13:59
it's already done, i sent a graphics update to wes with new armenian and spanish (ala leon & castile) graphics last night.

SicilianVespers
08-29-2005, 14:04
I went ahead and switched ownership of Provence and Sicily between the Aragonese and Sicilians. IIRC, this is the way it is in the High era. Provence is outside the Aragonese homeland, too, but at least it's closer to their center of power. I moved the Sicilian capital back to Sicily, too. Thanks for the encyclopedia paste, Vespers. That's a complicated history to try and sort out.


Yes, we have a very complicated history. I probably should have been more clear in the original material I gave you.

The provinces in Italy should line up something like this:

Kingdom of Sicily (Under the Aragonese house):
Sicily
Malta (i know it's not in the game)
Athens

Kingdom of Naples (under Angevin house):
Campania
Apulia
Provence
Achaea (not sure of dates)

Does Sicily still own Apulia and Campania?

Aenlic
08-29-2005, 16:47
Well, it's definitely the first master merchant built causing the CTDs.

I let the game run on auto until the CTD, like Lord Ovaat until a CTD then reload from the last autosave and manually run it back to the year before the CTD. It is always a master merchant that causes it.

In my last set of experiments, the CTD occurred at year 1372. I ran it back to 1371 and searched through the controllable factions looking for the master merchant builder. It's the Venetians, finishing a master merchant in Thrace. I take control of that faction, remove the master merchant from the building queue and run the end turn. No CTD. I was lucky in that only controllable factions using -ian were at the point to build master merchants. The English have a master merchant scheduled for completion in 3 turns in Wessex, and the Turks can build one in Egypt. So I take control of the Turks and start a master merchant in the queue, then switch to the Venetians, run it a turn and start a new master merchant in the queue in Thrace. Then I switch to the English and run it 2 turns. I save the game as the English right before the master merchant is finished in Wessex and then complete the turn. CTD. I load the game back at the save, delete the master merchant from the queue and run the turn. No CTD. Then I switch to the Turks, and wait for their merchant to get 1 turn from finishing. I save it, run the turn. CTD. I reload, delete the merchant form the queue, run the turn. No CTD. I kept this up, next the Venetians then the English then Turks for another 24 turns, alternating who finished the master merchant between the 3 factions. CTDs only after the first master merchant. No CTD if no one builds one.

Lord Ovaat
08-29-2005, 19:33
Thanks for the verification, Aenlic. I knew I wasn't crazy, lol. The master merchant glitch never came up for me until the latest "update". I believe Wes was working on the new trade routes, among other things. Hopefully, it will be easy for him to fix. Wouldn't it be nice if that's the last major bug? One can still play the mod with ugly flags and stuff. ~D

Greeny
08-29-2005, 19:42
Nice work Aenlic; I wonder if someone who knows more about modding than I do could explain how to remove the Master Merchant from the game (I assume by altering some text file) so that we can carry on testing for any other bugs before Wes gets round to fixing this bug properly.

Aenlic
08-29-2005, 23:17
Thanks, gents.

Well, I'm reasonably certain that it isn't just the master merchant itself that is the behind the scenes cause, but interaction between the master merchant and the game in some complicated way. It's more of a symptom rather than the cause, I think. I suspect that just removing the master merchant will lead to other things or maybe not even fix the problem. Wes is the expert; although I certainly don't envy him the task of tracking the bug down.

Oh, and screwing around this morning, I found that the bug causing the odd graphics for the high end buildings of the pagans is a result of some problem with the default pics in the review_panel icons folder. I'm not sure exactly what though.

I'm with you on the last major bug hope, Lord Ovaat. I'm not a real big fan of the late era. If we can get these bugs nailed enough that Wes can feel confident in a full release, then I can go back to terrorizing the world in my beloved early era.

Del Arroyo
08-30-2005, 06:59
What about the random rivers? Has anyone else noticed this? In my battles, I see alot of rivers popping up where no river was indicated on the strategic map, and also the random absence of rivers that theoretically should be there.

DA

Lord Ovaat
08-30-2005, 15:35
Wes is the expert; although I certainly don't envy him the task of tracking the bug down.

I've always suspected the merchant bug is an extension/effect of the new trade routes, particularly since that glitch is relatively new. Wes should be able to get it fairly easily, since he at least has a place to start.

And, no, I haven't noticed the new river disorientations. Haven't been really fighting any battles, just checking to see if they'll load. It would stand to reason there will be some adjustments needed in borders and such with all the new territories. I mean, Switzerland is now over by Constantinople, lol. I don't believe there's much one could change in this game without it affecting something else. That's what makes it so bloody complicated. And interesting. ~;)

Aenlic
08-30-2005, 16:09
I've only found one way to test beyond the master merchant bug that Lord Ovaat discovered. Auto-run the game and step in when needed to take control of those factions which -ian allows to stamp out those factions which you can't control with -ian. It's time consuming to get rid of the non-controllable factions, and rebellions which have them reappear are a pain to stamp out; but the result is that in later years, after 1370-1380 or so, you have complete control of all factions. I haven't yet found any other CTD bugs; but the process is so time-intensive that I haven't gotten beyond 1400 yet.

Del Arroyo
08-30-2005, 16:31
Well the rivers might be something worth checking out, because I've encountered these weirdnesses regularly. Like one time there was a Polish castle sally in Mazovia, and they brought in troops from Poland, and checking afterwards on the strat map there was NO possible direction they could have invaded from, including internally, that, according to the strat map, should have generated a river. But when they attacked my besieging force, they had to cross a ONE-BRIDGE river.

Come to think of it, it is a specific ONE-BRIDGE river map that is showing up randomly at places where it shouldn't. Also, I specifically remember an instance when that province between Kiev and Crimea (what's it called??) was invaded from Khazar, and there was no river whatsoever (the map clearly indicated there should have been one).

Both the the weird rivers and weird drynesses have happened to me with considerable frequency. If I run into another, I'll try and post screenies.

DA

P.S.: What's the keystroke for screenshots? And what's my best bet for posting them?

WesW
08-30-2005, 21:21
Well, I have been updating the rivers as I re-worked the strat map. There should definitely be a river between Khazar and Levidia (Brandenburg). Here is the line in the campaign file:
SetBorderInfo:: ID_KHAZAR ID_BRANDENBURG 25848 10824 0 TEMPERATE AT_EASTERN_EUROPEAN INLAND PLAINS RIVER //Dnieper

I have gone through and noted the rivers themselves in comments I made in the file. As always, the best thing to do is run your cursor over the border and note the info that pops up onscreen.
There are actually only a few of the largest rivers drawn on the map. I'm pretty sure there were some un-drawn river crossings which were present with the original settings. I have thought about trying to draw some of the others in, but it would be hard, time-consuming, and I wanted to be sure nothing else was going to change.
One thing I have done which can be surprising is that some rivers are only in effect in one direction. For instance, since the Danube in within Pannonia, attacking Serbia from there doesn't involve a river crossing, but attacking from Serbia does, since you would have to cross it to get to the heart of Pannonia.
I get caught sometimes, too. For instance, I forgot that there was a river between Valencia and Murcia, and had to call off an attack, and attack from New Castile instead.

Vespers, Sicily still has control of Apulia and Campania. The setup you proposed would add a new faction to the game, the Angevins, and relegate the Sicilians to one province, albeit a powerful one. I think the way I have things now will be the best.

As for the crashes, I still don't know what is going on. I did a test game as the Papacy, and had consistent crashes occuring after endturn in 1332.
I started another game, let it autorun, and it went until I stopped it in 1397 with no problem. Then I started a third game after reading the posts here, as the Venetians, and built a Master Merchant with no problem.
Does the crash only occur if the faction is AI-controlled? This was the circumstance for that awful bug I encountered a couple months ago, which turned out to be related to the heroes text.
The Trade Route and Marketplaces shouldn't have anything to do with it, though I can't be absolutely certain. The Marketplaces are simply a new line of Mines.

I went through the campaign file, and there aren't that many provinces which begin the game with a Merchant's Guild, which is the requirement to get a Master Merchant built by 1333. The only one which was not an -ian faction was Sweden. If you want to change it for testing, it is line 4600 (Merchant3)in the campaign text. The file is beta_MM4.txt, if you want to search for it.
I have scoured the Master Merchant entries and graphics, and there shouldn't be anything amiss, and since it isn't a new building, I wonder what else is going on here.

One odd thing I noticed, in the real game I was playing. I built a Constable's Palace in Leon, but the office flag didn't appear. Anyone else had this happen? I built a couple of others, along with a couple of the other palaces that I had fiddled with, and they appeared correctly.

I have corrected the graphics for the palaces for the pagan factions. This was another CA omission, since the only original pagans were the Horde, so pagans weren't allowed to build palaces except for the Royal.

Revenant, thanks for the culture fix for the foreign relations page. With this last update I grouped all the faction settings to the faction-specific text, whereas they had been spread out over different files. I thought all those other entries were unused pastes made simply so that the programmers wouldn't have to refer to other files while they made related entries. Anyway, I have pasted that section you specified into the faction-specific text. I haven't tested it yet, but it should work there.
Well, unless it's like resource names, that is. I had to include the tooltips file in the mod because the names for resources were hard-coded to it, in order to get the name Trade Route to appear onscreen instead of Forests.

Lord Ovaat
08-30-2005, 21:30
Aenlic, another way I test buildings with unlockable factions is to edit the "Startpos". Save the original somewhere by copying it, then pick a particular faction and chose ONE province. I then start changing the buildings to max (4) and adding new ones that the faction can build. I'll only make a couple of changes at a time, then close, save, and start the game. If the game even loads, you're half way there. I then start a new campaign with that particular faction and make sure the new campaign will load. If it loads, then you can save your file and add new stuff. Once you build all you can build for that faction, it should be safe. It's hard to do with units, however, because the name in the starting positions and in the game can be quite different. Is this time-consuming? Yup. But it seems quicker and surer than randomly just letting the game play forever, and maybe never finding the bug you're looking for. Of course, this would be needless unless you know you have, and are looking for, a specific problem. Those are still easiest to find just by running the game. And we wonder why it took four years to make RTW!

Lord Ovaat
08-30-2005, 21:36
I hate to double post, but Wes, you posted as I was writing. The merchant bug has been pretty consistent for me, but I certainly didn't try all of the factions. I still think it would have to involve the new trade routes, because I never noticed this bug unitl you made those changes. I can't offer any other help, sorry, lol.

Aenlic
08-31-2005, 01:06
I can confirm that I get a CTD when a master merchant is built, either as a player faction or when I let the AI do it.

I'm not sure hw the game coding works, but on the turn when the master merchant completes, playing that faction, I'll get the normal beginning of the turn windows for princesses born, etc. I'll get the window saying that the master merchant was completed and click on the checkmark button t close the window, various other turn windows cycle through. It seems as if the CTD happens right at the end of that portion of the turn cycle, just as or before the game releases the strategic screen to you to begin that turn. It definitely doesn't happen right as the window pops up advising that the building has been built.

ToranagaSama
08-31-2005, 01:21
Hello all,

I had two CTDs yesterday. Sorry, I lost my notes. All I remember was that the crash occurred during the Tour, with a Parchment open. I clicked the red-cirlce *checkmark* and the game went down, both times.

I don't recall how, but both times I was able to continue after reload. I played on for several years.

Today, the game crashed in a similar manner, BUT I cannot continue. Every attempt to load the savegame results in a CTD. The game never opens to the map.

Ok, running -ian for the first time. I don't know what I'm doing with this, so please somebody give me some *detailed* instructions. Thanks in advance!

Loaded the autosave and hit "A". Year is 1381. Game crashes at the same precise point each time during the tour before completion. Year 1382. If the tour would complete the year would be 1383.

---

Is there a FAQ for using -ian?

How do I take control of another faction?
How do I check the queue for other factions?

What is the use of the different modes:

AI = I
AI = H
Tour mode = S
Tour mode = [F5]

Sorry, to be so freakin dumb! I'm a player not a modder, but if I keep hanging around Wes.... ;)

Guess I'll start a new campaign.

Oh, if anyone wants the Savegame I have it on my desktop, guess I should save the Autosave too.

Am I the only one who thinks that TW should do a *dump* when it crashes?

later

---

BTW, has Wes uploaded any changes to his site?

Lord Ovaat
08-31-2005, 02:32
Aenlic, the game crashes right at the end of the turn. The very last thing that happens at the end of a year is the strategic map gets "updated" with all the new changes. The screen sorta flickers when all the changes are added to the map. That's when we are getting the CTD's for the merchants. You know, we can talk about them; we can build them; we can even pay for them. We just can't put 'em on the map, lol. I actually find it a bit odd that it takes the computer that long to figure out it did a "no-no". The error must be rather subtle, or the logic would pick it up sooner.

Oh, shame on you, TS. With your vast Total War experience and you're a "cheat noob"! LOL, but, hey, that's a good thing. Anyway, using IAN is pretty easy; just a few simple commands.

"G" will kick on "god mode" wherein you can view the entire strategic map. But you can't see what the other folks are building, nor their spies & assassins. You must asssume their faction to do that. it's simply a matter of hitting a number key for the different factions. It has changed a little from the original, because Wes has altered some of the factions, but as best as I can remember, the list is as follows:

1.........Rebels
2.........Almohads
3.........Byzantines
4.........Danes
5.........Egyptians
6.........English
7.........French
8.........HRE
9.........Italians (Venetians)
0.........Poles
Shift +
1.........Russians
2.........Spainish
3.........Turks
4.........Argonese
5.........Burgundians
6.........Mongols
7.........Hungarians
8.........Papists
9.........Sicilians
0.........sadly, nothing

You can move from faction to faction as much as you like, see what they are building, etc., and can end turn with ANY faction. So if you're sorta playin' the game while observing, be careful. If you end year with a faction other than your own, the AI takes control of yours. It's amazing the damage it can do in just one turn. ~D

If you chose to have the game go on "auto-run", just hit "a". The game will continue to play with your faction just reading the paper. The game will stop if you are attacked, which is why I'll generally move to the Papists if I'm going on auto-run. They are almost immune to attack, unless they provoke it.

There are also some commands to shut down the AI, but that, of course, would defeat our purposes. Would make it easy to win, I suspect, lol. I actually use IAN even when I play a regular campaign. I don't use it to "cheat" on the other factions, but it is great on the tactical map because it totally frees the camera. You can get some awsome screenies. Shame we can't do that with RTW and the new engine. But I must admit that a large part of the enjoyment of the game to me has always been watching the AI "think". You see, I'm slightly older than the average gamer, and having watched this tech grow from nothing to what it has become just amazes me. When I was in college, they had yet to invent the pocket calculator. ~:eek:

Del Arroyo
08-31-2005, 02:42
When I check for rivers I do it by checking the text for the "battles occuring between these two provinces will be on..." info. You're right the river graphics are unreliable.

DA

Aenlic
08-31-2005, 03:05
Hah, I think Lord Ovaat may actually be older than me! Woohoo! We were finally allowed to use calculators during my senior year in high school. Prior to that it was slide rules, baby! Even then, we still had to use our circular slide rules in physics. But those TI-50a calculators sure did make things easier in calculus. Kids these days, they have it too easy! ~D

Aenlic
H.S. Senior '77

Lord Ovaat
08-31-2005, 03:43
Aenlic
H.S. Senior '77

Huh! You're still a pup. I graduated from college in '70. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif

Hey, wait a minute. That's not funny.http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/traurig/sad-smiley-026.gif

Aenlic
08-31-2005, 03:45
Heh. I'm feeling darn near spry and chipper now! Thanks! ~;)

WesW
08-31-2005, 20:33
TS, there is a text I included in the Charts and Readmes folder titled God Mode commands. It should tell you all you need to know.

I'm afraid we are seeing at least two, possibly three types of crashes here. And I can't figure out how any of them are related to the Master Merchant.
I do have some theories and things for you guys to check out, however.

1)Janissary Academies. Play as the Turks and build one of these. I included a new graphic for them in the last update.
2)Leonardo's Workshop. Build one of these, too. They require a Citadel and only the Genoese and Venetians can build them, but Venice should be ready at the start. It is the fourth update in the expanded gunsmith line, and there may be some hardcoded limit of three. This might produce the CTD that I saw, which appeared immediately after I hit Endturn.
3)Openwater ships. Make one of the deepwater ships, and sail it to the deep ocean seas. If there is a link missing from one of these, it would cause the random crashes that could be avoided by loading from a few years previous.
4)Upper-level Marketplaces. This is a long-shot, but you could try building these in provinces along with other types of mines, like some of the German provinces. There may be a limit to the number of levels you can have in a province.

If none of these things solve the problems, I could try removing the Cuman from the game and see how that goes. All the other non-graphics issues that I am aware of have been solved, except for the odd case of the missing title in Leon, so I can post an update after you guys have checked these things out.

Btw, how are the factions doing with their navies? Are the Venetians still dominating everything?

ToranagaSama
08-31-2005, 23:55
Hey, Alabama, how you doin? I take it you are well north of the gulf.

[OFF TOPIC]

It's all so unbelieveable!!! Right now, I'm watching CNN, seems like they're evacuating Prisoners now. They were all just standing around in their prison Orange. Now, they making them all sit down in the water! Water is about mid-calf. Tough being a prisoner!

For the Euros, I'm talking about Hurricane Katrine which has devestated the Gulf areas of three states. Along with one of our most important cities. Oil production is shut down!!! 24% of our oil has just evaporated!!! US$3.50 per gallon gas is here to stay, and don't be surprised within the month prises rising a dollar more.

Anyway back on topic:

Lord Ovaat, thank you very much sir! JFYI, I've deliberately attempted to keep myself igorant of certain aspects of the game. I prefer to keep my game experience as *pure* as possible. Knowing too much just spoils the challenge.

I'll tell you its amazing the little things you forget when not playing for awhile.

I'll check out the text file Wes, thanks.

I'll try to check things out by tommorrow evening and report back.

Right now, I'm a bit consumed by Katrina and anticipating its ramifications, which are and will be enormous, effecting every American, and in fact the world!!! I think our economy just hit the dirt, but gotta think it through more. How the heck are we going to pay for this?

Heading over to the Tavern....

Aenlic
09-01-2005, 02:19
OK, a few notes from your request above, Wes.

No sea link problems. I built a shipbuilder's guild at Venice and sailed a gungalley to every sea province, deep sea or otherwise.

The Venetians need a gunsmithy and then a fortress before they can build Leonardo's Workshop. The gunsmithy is available at both Verona and Venice. As soon as you start building a gunsmithy in either, it removes the entire gunsmith line from the other provinces. I thought this was odd. So, building a gunsmithy in Verona in turn 1 removes the gunsmith and the choice of building anymore from Venice and vice versa. I followed through and built a fortress than Leonardo's Workshop in Verona. No problems other than now only being able to build the gunsmith line in Verona. The completion window which pops up upon finishing Leonardo's Workshop says "Master Gunsmith completed" but the graphics and everything else show the Workshop. And organ guns can be built with no problem.

Completing a Grand Bazaar works just fine; but the completion popup window says "Royal Mint completed" instead. Everything else shows Grand Bazaar.

No problems building a janissary academy for the Turks. I forgot to check to see what the completion graphic said, though.

I've tried everything I can think of doing for master merchants. I've tried waiting and building a fortress first, just in case they're acting like a grand bazaar. Still CTD. I've tried deleting every other building possible in the province while still allowing a master merchant, no go. Deleting the trade route line doesn't help. Building mines or trade route line first doesn't help, either.

While I was typing the above, I went into the MM4b_buildings.txt and just stared at it for a while to see if anything popped out at me. And something did. The designation for all of the other income buildings was "LEV1_INCOME", but for the merchant line it said "TRADING_POST"

On a hunch, I know very unprofessional, I changed that line to read LEV1_INCOME instead for the merchants, I then saved it, reloaded the game, loaded up one of my saves at one turn before a master merchant completion and ran it. No more CTD!

I have no idea what LEV1_INCOME and TRADING_POST mean or what they do, but changing that one line stops the master merchant CTD.

Lord Ovaat
09-01-2005, 04:35
Aenlic, YOU DA MAN! That might be it. Like you, I've spent most of the evening playing with buildings and such. I've gotten the same results you did, but with a different approach. I would simply alter one province in the startpos to enable a level 4 merchant. For instance, Wessex was given a castle13, shipyard2, and merchant4, to meet all the requirements. Load, single player, new campaign, MEDMOD Late, English. Half way through the load screen, CTD. Go back to startpos, change the merchant4 to merchant3 and leave everything else as is, and no crash. The new campaign starts. Did this with the English, French, and Scots, 'cause they're a new faction. Always the same results. It only crashes on completion of the master merchant.

Since I don't have as many years left as you do to play with this thing, ~D , to test the seas I simply gave Wessex about 10 Carracks in the startpos. Started the new campaign, and then proceeded to cover all the seas. No problems.

I next checked on the gunsmiths with the Venitians, using regular cheats like .worksundays. and .badgerbunny. to speed things up. I figure if it's gonna crash, it's gonna do it whether you build the third level before the fourth or you don't. It wouldn't matter. Again, no problems. Built all buildings to highest level in one or more provinces. All OK. Then.........the master merchant. Turn completed, building completion list showed a merchant4 being built, and as soon as I click the "vise/virtue" parchment and the map tried to update, CTD. This merchant glitch is a major, game-stopping bug. I do hope you have finally found it. Besides, it will justify my hunch of it having to do with the new trade routes in some way, LOL. ~:cheers:

Lord Ovaat
09-01-2005, 05:07
Well, after my initial child-like exuberance above, I went into the text files to check on the trader/level_income issue. The way Wes has it in the MM build file is the same as it is in the Crusader build file. I think the reason it's different for the actual trader is because Wes has written it in as a mine-type, rather than a trading-type of structure. Sooooo, when one changes the text from "trader" to "level-income", as you did, Aenlic, does that change the way trade is conducted by the sea trade routes? Does it just make it incremental as in building a stage two mine? But then, if so, how exactly does trade in land-locked provinces work with the same buildings? At least in the original game. Come to think of it, the land-locked trade WASN'T working with the initial beta, and the master merchant wasn't getting crashes for me. Once Wes adjusted the merchants to again generate income with the later updates, then I started seeing the merchant crashes. Changing that wording might eliminate the CTD, but it also might eliminate progressive trading along sea lanes. Geez, I'm starting to get really confused. Must be time in increase my medication. :dizzy2: Maybe I'll just take a nap.

Lord Ovaat
09-01-2005, 05:27
OK, bare with me; I'm starting to get a headache. The merchant line from MM4b reads:

MERCHANT "Trading Post, Merchant, Merchants Guild, Master Merchant" TRADING_POST

The same line from Crusader reads:

MERCHANT "Trading Post, Merchant, Merchants Guild, Master Merchant" TRADING_POST

They are identical. Now here's the part I don't understand, nor do I know if it would have any effect on the beta. The MM FUll build reads exactly the same as the other two, BUT the next building down from the merchant reads:

TAVERN "Trading Post, Merchant, Merchants Guild, Master Merchant" TRADING_POST

That's the only file I can see that has that listing. ALL of them also list the New_tavern and New_brothel as agent producers, etc. But in MM Full Build, tavern is also listed separately, and as a trader, not an agent producer.

Could this be affecting the beta file?

Aenlic
09-01-2005, 14:54
Yeah, I figured it would have some bad side effects regarding trade routes; but knowing that it's tied to that Trading_Post designation will at least help you smarter guys figure it out. I haven't noticed any big difference in income as a result, though.

I came across another master merchant anomaly last night. While checking from faction to faction using god mode to be sure no one else was building a master merchant before I began experimenting with the Venetians again, I noticed that the Aragonese had merchant guilds in three of their provinces. I had let the game auto run for a long while, building the Venetian fortress so they Aragonese had plenty of time to build up stuff. They had conquered the Almohads by then and owned most of Spain and North Africa. They had merchant guilds in Sicily, Aragon, and Algeria. The odd thing was they only had the option to upgrade to a master merchant in Sicily and Aragon. Algeria had a citadel by then, just like the other two. Nothing else jumped out at me as being different, except that the merchant guild in Algeria was the Muslim style, meaning they had just recently conquered the province. I couldn't figure out a reason why a master merchant was available as a build option in only two of the three provinces, everything else being equal. Could it be tied to homelands somehow?

Lord Ovaat
09-01-2005, 18:29
The province must also have a shipyard2, which is a dockyard, I believe, in order to build a master merchant. Wes has had that requirement in the mod for quite some time to prevent the AI from wasting money on upgrades that won't help it. If you can't build the boats, one doesn't really need the upgrades. You may want to check to see if they were meeting the minimum regs in those provinces. To be honest, Aenlic, I'm not a modder. I can play around with some of the stuff, but that's about it. All we can hope to do is find the bugs and hope Wes can figure it out. BUT, on a brighter note, we work cheap. I WILL work for food, even though he hasn't feed us lately. Seriously though, I think I've done about as much as I can do at this point. I look at some of those files, and it's just a jumbled cluster-XXXX. I don't know how those guys can even work with them. I tried using the gnome editor, but that doesn't seem to want to load Wes's mod. Maybe there are classes we can take, lol.

Aenlic
09-01-2005, 20:16
I'm in the same boat. I've managed to change one of the pre-existing but unused factions in one era to another and get it going; but I have yet to figure out how to add extra factions. Every attempt has ended in failure. I have no idea how Wes and the other guys manage it with their sanity intact.

WesW
09-01-2005, 20:19
Hi guys. I live in the extreme northwest corner of Alabama, and we had an odd experience with Katrina (she left the Waves on the coast). By brother told me the eye, such as it was by then, passed directly over me, but all I remember was a couple of fairly-strong wind bursts. He came over to see me Tuesday afternoon for some computer help, and said that there was a lot more wind damage further west where he lived. This makes sense due to the way hurricanes rotate. I saw a few minor instances of wind damage Wed when I drove around, but that was it. The local news didn't have any reports of major damage in the area, either.
I don't know what they are going to do on the coast. They might be better off bull-dozing most of New Orleans and starting over- seriously. For decades now they have been artificially diverting the Mississippi River in order to keep it flowing past the city, with the result that the sediment needed to sustain the Delta has been flowing out into the Gulf. The Delta has shrunk by the equivalent of several whole counties in that time, with all the ecological damage which that entails.
I recently saw a History Channel feature on the hurricane which destroyed Galveston, and in its aftermath they dredged sand from the bay north of it and raised the town level by 13 feet. Maybe they should do the same to the lowest parts of New Orleans.

Back to the game...

I am simply not getting the Merchant crashes that you guys are experiencing, for whatever reason. I think maybe I got the crash in my test game because I switched factions and played with the build queue.
Lord Ovaat, I re-named the buildings text for this update, to try and save some confusion for people with v3.14. Anyway, the new units and buildings texts have an "MM4b" prefix. You were exploring the old file. Aenlic was altering the right one.

I'll try and get the update posted as soon as possible, and hopefully whatever glitch is causing this will go away.

Lord Ovaat
09-01-2005, 21:35
Glad to hear you're OK down there. All we got was rain in PA. Anyway, yeah, I agree that the text in question is MM4b. My purpose was simply to compare that particular code in the Beta against the same code in the older files. We knew they worked. As I had mentioned, they are identical. The ONLY difference I found was in the MMfull text with the tavern, but I don't think that would have any effect on this. Good luck, Bud. I've exhausted my store of knowledge. ~D

Aenlic
09-01-2005, 22:06
And it's good to hear you're OK, Wes. Katrina was still spawning occasional tornados when it went your way.

ToranagaSama
09-02-2005, 00:02
[OFF TOPIC]

Glad to here she passed you by uneventful. My brother, in Memphis, said just about the same. They suffered a few intermitent power outages though. This thing is HUGE! Not just the human sufferring and displacement, but the economic ramifications hasn't yet been fully evaluated or absorbed. The President, yesterday and today, made some *overtures*, and today stated that the fuel crisis is *Temporary*, but that's just talk to keep the populace calm.

No way 24% of our oil production capacity is back up anytime *soon*. 90% of Gulf production offline hit by the hurricane. 11% of natural gas offline. NINE refineries offline, flooded and with no electricity. That in a context of ALL U.S. refineries operating at 98% capacity, and oil consumption at equilibrium. Big problems, not to mention the Humans necessary to make it all go, are dispersed, and the area is uninhabitable.

Add to that the facts that, the Port of New Orleans and South Louisana rank 5th and 1st respectively. Also, Baton Rouge 10th, Lake Charles 12th and Moblie 14th. I'm talking *Tonnage*!

*Super* Inflation is on the way and its here to stay! Trying to figure the best way to financially play this. Real Estate is one play, the bubble is unlikely to burst, prices being maintained by inflationary pressure. That's the bad. The good is that existing or soon to be purchased real asset debt can be paid off with *inflationary* dollars.

"D" Day, 9/20.

Well, I'm just rambling...

[END OFF TOPIC]

BTW, I graduated from high school in '78. TI calculaters were all the rage. So were digital watches, and TI was a hot stock!

OK, been a little pre-occupied with Katrina and will continue to be so, but I did read Aenlic's post. So I edited MM4b as was suggested:


While I was typing the above, I went into the MM4b_buildings.txt and just stared at it for a while to see if anything popped out at me. And something did. The designation for all of the other income buildings was "LEV1_INCOME", but for the merchant line it said "TRADING_POST"

On a hunch, I know very unprofessional, I changed that line to read LEV1_INCOME instead for the merchants, I then saved it, reloaded the game, loaded up one of my saves at one turn before a master merchant completion and ran it. No more CTD!

BING! I confirm Anelic's results.

Renamed and Loaded up my saved autosave.dat and ran -ian. The game got to the crash point, did a little graphical herky jerky and Turned to the year 1383. Let the game run for a few more turns, and then I had to get back to other things. Later I'll repeat the above and let it run for longer.

EXCELLENT find Anelic!!!! Nice assist Lord Ovaat.

Lord Ovaat
09-02-2005, 00:54
Wes, I've been kinda thinking about your post above, mentioning that you are not getting the merchant crashes TS, Aenlic, and I are getting. I'm almost afraid to ask this, but do we have ALL of the same exact files as you do? Is it possible you have something that wasn't included in the last update? I've recently again (Tuesday, I think) DL'd the graphics and text with no difference in CTD.

Belisario
09-02-2005, 19:44
Hello guys! I've worked this week on the byzantine names and heroes and I'm satisfied with the result. I've compiled names more close to his greek form (but in latin characters ~;) ). I've added also eleven heroes, corrected the names of the current heroes and kings in the game and added two famous kings (one of them for the beginning of the high era: Theodoros I Laskaris emperor of Nicaea). Finally I've revised the byzantine offices. I need a rest after this task ~D .

// 2: byzantine_forenames
ADD_FORENAMES::
"Alexios"
"Ioannes"
"Manuel"
"Andronikos"
"Isaakios"
"Theodoros"
"Michael"
"Konstantinos"

"Alexandros"
"Alexios"
"Andreas"
"Andronikos"
"Bardas"
"Bartolomaios"
"Basil"
"Basileios"
"Christophoros"
"Demetrios"
"Dionysios"
"Eumathios"
"Gabriel"
"Georgios"
"Gerasimos"
"Gregoras"
"Iakobos"
"Ioannes"
"Ionnikios"
"Isaakios"
"Isaias"
"Kassianos"
"Konstantinos"
"Leon"
"Leontios"
"Makarios"
"Manuel"
"Markos"
"Meletios"
"Michael"
"Neilos"
"Neophytos"
"Nikephoros"
"Niketas"
"Nikodemos"
"Nikolaos"
"Niphon"
"Paulus"
"Pantoleon"
"Petros"
"Philippos"
"Romanos"
"Sabas"
"Stephanos"
"Theodoros"
"Theodosios"
"Theodoulos"
"Theophylaktos"
"Thomas"

// 2: byzantine_surnames
ADD_SURNAMES::
"Komnenos" //Royal Surnames: Early "Komnenos"; High "Laskaris"; Late "Palaiologos".

"Akropolites"
"Angelos"
"Apokaukos"
"Aprenos"
"Arbantenos"
"Arianites"
"Argyros"
"Asanes"
"Axuch"
"Balsamon"
"Batatzes"
"Beccus"
"Boradiotes"
"Botaneiates"
"Bourtzes"
"Boutoumites"
"Branas"
"Bryennios"
"Choniates"
"Dalassenos"
"Dokeianos"
"Doukas"
"Doxopatres"
"Eirenikos"
"Gabras"
"Kabakes"
"Kalamanos"
"Kaloethes"
"Kamateros"
"Kantakouzenos"
"Kaukadenos"
"Kekaumenos"
"Kinnamos"
"Komnenos"
"Kontostephanos"
"Koresses"
"Kourkouas"
"Kourtikes"
"Laskaris"
"Limpidares"
"Makrembolites"
"Malakes"
"Maniakes"
"Melachrinos"
"Melissenos"
"Monastras"
"Mourtzouphlos"
"Mouzakios"
"Mouzalon"
"Nestongos"
"Palaiologos"
"Palamas"
"Pantechnes"
"Paraspondylos"
"Petraliphas"
"Petzeas"
"Philokales"
"Phokas"
"Pleustes"
"Psellos"
"Radenos"
"Sgouros"
"Skleros"
"Spartenos"
"Sphrantzes"
"Strabomytes"
"Synadenos"
"Tarchaneiotes"
"Tornikes"
"Tzimiskes"
"Tzykandeles"
"Zarides"

// 2: byzantine_princesses
ADD_PRINCESS::
"Alexeia"
"Anna"
"Eirene"
"Elaiodora"
"Eugenia"
"Eudokia"
"Euphrosyne"
"Helene"
"Ioanno"
"Kale"
"Leonto"
"Maria"
"Simonis"
"Sophia"
"Theodora"
"Thomais"
"Xene"
"Zoe"

// byzantine_forenames
["Alexandros"] {"Alexandros"}
["Alexios"] {"Alexios"}
["Andreas"] {"Andreas"}
["Andronikos"] {"Andronikos"}
["Bardas"] {"Bardas"}
["Bartolomaios"] {"Bartolomaios"}
["Basil"] {"Basil"}
["Basileios"] {"Basileios"}
["Christophoros"] {"Christophoros"}
["Demetrios"] {"Demetrios"}
["Dionysios"] {"Dionysios"}
["Eumathios"] {"Eumathios"}
["Gabriel"] {"Gabriel"}
["Georgios"] {"Georgios"}
["Gerasimos"] {"Gerasimos"}
["Gregoras"] {"Gregoras"}
["Iakobos"] {"Iakobos"}
["Ioannes"] {"Ioannes"}
["Ionnikios"] {"Ionnikios"}
["Isaakios"] {"Isaakios"}
["Isaias"] {"Isaias"}
["Kassianos"] {"Kassianos"}
["Konstantinos"] {"Konstantinos"}
["Leon"] {"Leon"}
["Leontios"] {"Leontios"}
["Makarios"] {"Makarios"}
["Manuel"] {"Manuel"}
["Markos"] {"Markos"}
["Meletios"] {"Meletios"}
["Michael"] {"Michael"}
["Neilos"] {"Neilos"}
["Neophytos"] {"Neophytos"}
["Nikephoros"] {"Nikephoros"}
["Niketas"] {"Niketas"}
["Nikodemos"] {"Nikodemos"}
["Nikolaos"] {"Nikolaos"}
["Niphon"] {"Niphon"}
["Paulus"] {"Paulus"}
["Pantoleon"] {"Pantoleon"}
["Petros"] {"Petros"}
["Philippos"] {"Philippos"}
["Romanos"] {"Romanos"}
["Sabas"] {"Sabas"}
["Stephanos"] {"Stephanos"}
["Theodoros"] {"Theodoros"}
["Theodosios"] {"Theodosios"}
["Theodoulos"] {"Theodoulos"}
["Theophylaktos"] {"Theophylaktos"}
["Thomas"] {"Thomas"}

// byzantine_surnames
["Akropolites"] {"Akropolites"}
["Angelos"] {"Angelos"}
["Apokaukos"] {"Apokaukos"}
["Aprenos"] {"Aprenos"}
["Arbantenos"] {"Arbantenos"}
["Arianites"] {"Arianites"}
["Argyros"] {"Argyros"}
["Asanes"] {"Asanes"}
["Axuch"] {"Axuch"}
["Balsamon"] {"Balsamon"}
["Batatzes"] {"Batatzes"}
["Beccus"] {"Beccus"}
["Boradiotes"] {"Boradiotes"}
["Botaneiates"] {"Botaneiates"}
["Bourtzes"] {"Bourtzes"}
["Boutoumites"] {"Boutoumites"}
["Branas"] {"Branas"}
["Bryennios"] {"Bryennios"}
["Choniates"] {"Choniates"}
["Dalassenos"] {"Dalassenos"}
["Dokeianos"] {"Dokeianos"}
["Doukas"] {"Doukas"}
["Doxopatres"] {"Doxopatres"}
["Eirenikos"] {"Eirenikos"}
["Gabras"] {"Gabras"}
["Kabakes"] {"Kabakes"}
["Kalamanos"] {"Kalamanos"}
["Kaloethes"] {"Kaloethes"}
["Kamateros"] {"Kamateros"}
["Kantakouzenos"] {"Kantakouzenos"}
["Kaukadenos"] {"Kaukadenos"}
["Kekaumenos"] {"Kekaumenos"}
["Kinnamos"] {"Kinnamos"}
["Komnenos"] {"Komnenos"}
["Kontostephanos"] {"Kontostephanos"}
["Koresses"] {"Koresses"}
["Kourkouas"] {"Kourkouas"}
["Kourtikes"] {"Kourtikes"}
["Laskaris"] {"Laskaris"}
["Limpidares"] {"Limpidares"}
["Makrembolites"] {"Makrembolites"}
["Malakes"] {"Malakes"}
["Maniakes"] {"Maniakes"}
["Melachrinos"] {"Melachrinos"}
["Melissenos"] {"Melissenos"}
["Monastras"] {"Monastras"}
["Mourtzouphlos"] {"Mourtzouphlos"}
["Mouzakios"] {"Mouzakios"}
["Mouzalon"] {"Mouzalon"}
["Nestongos"] {"Nestongos"}
["Palaiologos"] {"Palaiologos"}
["Palamas"] {"Palamas"}
["Pantechnes"] {"Pantechnes"}
["Paraspondylos"] {"Paraspondylos"}
["Petraliphas"] {"Petraliphas"}
["Petzeas"] {"Petzeas"}
["Philokales"] {"Philokales"}
["Phokas"] {"Phokas"}
["Pleustes"] {"Pleustes"}
["Psellos"] {"Psellos"}
["Radenos"] {"Radenos"}
["Sgouros"] {"Sgouros"}
["Skleros"] {"Skleros"}
["Spartenos"] {"Spartenos"}
["Sphrantzes"] {"Sphrantzes"}
["Strabomytes"] {"Strabomytes"}
["Synadenos"] {"Synadenos"}
["Tarchaneiotes"] {"Tarchaneiotes"}
["Tornikes"] {"Tornikes"}
["Tzimiskes"] {"Tzimiskes"}
["Tzykandeles"] {"Tzykandeles"}
["Zarides"] {"Zarides"}

// byzantine_princesses
["Alexeia"] {"Alexeia"}
["Anna"] {"Anna"}
["Eirene"] {"Eirene"}
["Elaiodora"] {"Elaiodora"}
["Eugenia"] {"Eugenia"}
["Eudokia"] {"Eudokia"}
["Euphrosyne"] {"Euphrosyne"}
["Helene"] {"Helene"}
["Ioanno"] {"Ioanno"}
["Kale"] {"Kale"}
["Leonto"] {"Leonto"}
["Maria"] {"Maria"}
["Simonis"] {"Simonis"}
["Sophia"] {"Sophia"}
["Theodora"] {"Theodora"}
["Thomais"] {"Thomais"}
["Xene"] {"Xene"}
["Zoe"] {"Zoe"}

FAMOUS_KINGS:: FN_BYZANTINE1 10
//name no. c d p a portrait vnv
0, 1, 4, 5, 4, 5, -1, defender2 //Alexios I Komnenos (1081-1118)
1, 2, 4, 5, 4, 5, -1, mightywarrior2 //Ioannes II Komnenos (1118-1143)
2, 1, 2, 5, 3, 4, -1, lawman1 //Manuel I Komnenos (1143-1180)
3, 1, 3, 5, 3, 3, -1, tyrant1 //Andronikos I Komnenos (1183-1185)
0, 5, 3, 3, 3, 3, -1, secretkiller3 //Alexios V Mourtzouphlos (1204)
5, 1, 4, 4, 5, 4, -1, mightywarrior2 //Theodoros I Laskaris (Emperor of Nicaea, 1204-1222)
1, 3, 2, 6, 4, 5, -1, builderking3 //Ioannes III Doukas (Emperor of Nicaea, 1222-1254)
3, 2, 1, 3, 5, 1, -1, pious2 //Andronikos II Palaiologos (1282-1328)
1, 6, 3, 4, 4, 5, -1, educated1 //Ioannes VI Kantakouzenos (1347-1354)
7, 11, 3, 3, 3, 3, -1, tyrant1 //Konstantinos XI Palaiologos (1448-1453)

SetStartLeader:: FN_BYZANTINE1 0 8 1 1 0 0 1 0 7 10 //Early starpos
SetStartLeader:: FN_BYZANTINE1 5 8 5 2 1 1 2 1 7 10 //High starpos
SetStartLeader:: FN_BYZANTINE1 7 8 5 4 1 2 2 2 8 10 //Late starpos

FAMOUS_HEROES:: FN_BYZANTINE1 17
//forename surname date, c, d, p, a, l, vnv, TYPE ID_REGION PORTRAIT
"Nikephoros", "Bryennios", 1062, 2, 2, 5, 6, 7, honest1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Historian and "Kaisar" (Caesar; imperial title), husband of Alexios I's daughter, the writer Anna Komnene. After the death of Alexios I, Anna tried to place him on the throne. Her attempt, however, failed because Nikephoros himself wasn't ambitious and served the legal successor Ioannes II.
"Eumathios", "Philokales", 1067, 3, 3, 4, 5, 7, attacker1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //An able soldier and diplomat. He was appointed governor of Cyprus to deal with the leaders of the first crusade. Later was "Domestikos" (Commander) of the anatolian army and beated the turks in 1110.
"Ioannes", "Axuch", 1095, 5, 4, 2, 4, 7, loyal3, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Loyal general of turkish origin. He was taken prisoner as a child at the reconquest of Nicaea in 1097 and brought up at the imperial palace in Constantinople. He was "Megas Domestikos" (the overall commander of the army) and intimate friend of Ioannes II Komnenos. He played an important role securing the succession of the Ioannes II's son Manuel I Komnenos.
"Andronikos", "Kontostephanos", 1120, 3, 3, 4, 4, 6, attacker1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //He was "Megas Doux" (High Admiral). He beated the normans of Antioch in 1143. He collaborated with the king of Jerusalem Amaury I d'Anjou in his attack against Egypt in 1169. This expedition failed due to the undecision of the king Amaury I and the distrust of the crusaders towards the byzantines.
"Theodosios", "Boradiotes", 1130, 1, 1, 4, 4, 4, no_v, ORTHODOX_BISHOP, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Patriarch of Constantinople (1178-1183). Regent of Alexios II Komnenos.
"Konstantinos", "Kalamanos", 1131, 5, 4, 4, 4, 7, captured1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Expert general of hungarian origin. He was appointed governor of Cilicia in 1162. He helped the crusaders of Antioch and Tripoli to repel attacks of Nur ad-Din, the powerful atabeg of Aleppo. He was captured by the indomitable armenian prince Mleh in 1171.
"Ioannes", "Kinnamos", 1143, 1, 1, 3, 4, 7, no_v, EMISSARY, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Historian (circa 1143-1203). He came from a renowned family. Very soon he entered the service of Manuel I Komnenos. He was a grammarian to the emperor and belonged to his close inner circle. His historic work "Epitomes" constitutes the most important source for the years of Ioannes II and Manuel I.
"Alexios", "Branas", 1150, 4, 3, 3, 3, 5, attacker1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //General of Isaakios II Angelos. He beated the normans of Sicily at Mosynopolis in 1185.
"Niketas", "Choniates", 1151, 1, 1, 3, 4, 7, no_v, EMISSARY, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Historian and theologian (circa 1150-1213). He entered imperial service at a young age, served as a secretary of Isaakios II Angelos and from 1189, he became commander of Philippopolis. After 1204, he resorted to the court of Theodoros I Laskaris. He is known mainly for his historical work, the "Chronike Diegesis".
"Leon", "Sgouros", 1180, 3, 5, 3, 5, 3, tyrant1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Archon of Naphlion. He died jumping from a tower when he was defending his city of the latins in 1208.
"Theodoros", "Angelos", 1185, 4, 5, 2, 3, 4, attacker1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Despot of Epiros (1215-1230) and rival of the nicaean emperor Ioannes III Batatzes. He attacked the Latin Kingdom in 1224, acquiring Thessalonika, Thessaly, Thrace and most of Macedonia, and proclaimed the Empire of Thessalonika. He was preparing to recover Constantinople when he was defeated and captured by the bulgarians of Ivan II Asen at Klokotnitza in 1230. He was imprisoned and blinded.
"Andronikos", "Palaiologos", 1200, 4, 3, 5, 4, 6, defender1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //He was "Megas Domestikos" (the overall commander of the army) of the emperors of Nicaea. He was appointed governor of Thessalonika in 1246. He was father of Michael VIII Palaiologos the conqueror of Constantinople.
"Georgios", "Akropolites", 1203, 1, 0, 3, 4, 6, no_v, EMISSARY, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Historian and "Megas Logothethes" (the head of the bureaucrats). He was personal friend of Michael VIII Palaiologos. He take the oath in the name of Michael VIII at Council of Lyon (1274; attempt of union between the catholic church and the orthodox church).
"Ioannes", "Beccus", 1235, 1, 2, 5, 4, 6, pious1, ORTHODOX_BISHOP, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Patriarch of Constantinople. He was known by his talent and his wisdom. He was a supporter of the union with Rome and assistant of Michael VIII Palaiologos in his pro-roman political.
"Gregoras", "Palamas", 1296, 1, 0, 7, 3, 5, pious3, ORTHODOX_BISHOP, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Archbishop of Thessalonika. Hesychast theologian (ascetic doctrine). Sanctified.
"Alexios", "Apokaukos", 1300, 3, 5, 3, 3, 5, envy1, GENERAL, ID_LIMBO, -1 //He was appointed "Megas Doux" (High Admiral) by Andronikos III Palaiologos. After the death of Andronikos III, he faced up to Ioannes Kantakouzenos (future Ioannes VI) by the control of the government during the minority of Ioannes V Palaiologos. He was killed in 1345.
"Georgios", "Sphrantzes", 1401, 1, 1, 3, 4, 7, no_v, EMISSARY, ID_LIMBO, -1 //Governor of Patras. Historian and intimate friend of Konstantinos XI Palaiologos. Captured at Fall of Constantinople.

OFFICE NAMES
["Chamberlain of the Palace"] {"Protovestiarios"} //He took care of the emperor's personal wardrobe, especially on military campaings
["Commander of the Stables"] {"Protospatharios"} //The commander of the imperial guard
["Commander of the Army"] {"Megas Domestikos"} //The overall commander of the army
["Chancellor of the Palace"] {"Megas Logothetes"} //The head of the logothetes (bureaucrats)
["Commander of the Fleet"] {"Megas Doux"} //High Admiral
["Patriarch of Constantinople"] {"Patriarch of Constantinople"} //The head of the orthodox church

WesW
09-03-2005, 03:08
The update is now posted.

The graphics have been updated, with the new Spanish flag included.
The Scottish port is now in the right place.
I made sure that all coastal merc provinces had a good, since the mercs enable Merchants and the AI would waste money on them otherwise.
All known text and graphics errors corrected, except for the prebat shields.
Ownership of Sicily and Provence has been switched between the Sicilians and Aragonese.
Land values for most provinces in Germany and Iberia has been changed. The major changes were to Iberia, where I significantly reduced the value of several provinces, with the exception of Aragon, which I increased.
I adjusted the starting units for many provinces. I pumped up some of the small factions, and removed a unit or so from many provinces belonging to some of the larger factions.

The first thing for you guys to do is see if you still get the CTD's. I just can't figure out what is going on, since this is not a new structure or anything.
I did move the Merchant entry in the buildings text from below to above the mine entries back when I first heard about your crashes. Back when I was trying to get the Tavern to work as a second set of Merchants, their order in the file affected how they worked, or didn't.
If the Merchant crashes are fixed, be sure to test out the Marketplaces, since they are now at the end of the file.

Lord Ovaat
09-03-2005, 04:24
DL'd new updates, graphics and text. Game will not load. DL'd & installed updates second time. Still won't load. Uninstalled entire program and did a reinstall with MTW, VI and both patches. Installed the new updates. It still won't load.

Big_John
09-03-2005, 06:08
same here.

edit: from the way it's behaving, i'm guessing there is a problem with the unit_prod or build_prod file. possibly the heros.txt?

Lord Ovaat
09-03-2005, 20:13
As a test, I deleted the MM4beta file from Startpos. I left everything else the same in all folders. I just removed that file. The game did load. Of course, there were no MedMod options for new campaign, but everything else did load. Assuming that the problem may lie in that particular file, I'm going to study it to see if anything "clicks".

WesW
09-03-2005, 22:00
Sorry guys. I forgot to load the game after implementing the Spanish graphics.

Open up the campaign file, in the campmap\startpos folder, and remove the second "1" from "FN_SPANISH11" in line 2463, I believe. Here is how the line should look:

SetShieldImage:: FN_SPANISH1 "Spain1_lge" "Spain1_sml" "Spain1" "FN1011" "FN1011"

Btw, I successfully loaded a game with a Master Marketplace, so I really hope these crashes are gone.

WesW
09-04-2005, 07:50
I keep forgetting...
Revenant, I have sent a couple of emails to you regarding the regowner_table. Please reply some way to let me know if you got my info and instructions.

Revenant
09-04-2005, 16:05
I keep forgetting...
Revenant, I have sent a couple of emails to you regarding the regowner_table. Please reply some way to let me know if you got my info and instructions.

I now have it.

Del Arroyo
09-04-2005, 19:43
Waaaah! ~:mecry: My game has a CTD just as it's getting good!

I'm playing the version of MedMod Beta that came before the most recent spate of updates. Is there anything I can do to save it? It doesn't seem to be a Master Merchant-- there's been one in Venice for several turns, and it's only crashing now. I tried modifying the MM4_buildprod file like it says here earlier, but no luck ~:mecry: Is there anything I can do???

This crash is happening the same year as an auto-save-- the crash which ended my Lithuanian campaign ALSO happened the same year as an auto-save-- don't know if that has anything to do with it? Regardless, I am sad, and hoping there might be some way I can get to see beauty of my Armored Huscarles in action.... if not...... then oh well........ :sad2:

DA

ToranagaSama
09-04-2005, 22:24
When you modded the file, precisely, what did you do? I hope you made a backup? Did you follow Anelic's instruction or Wes'? Wes' applies to the latest update. In your case you need to follow Anelic's!

Just in case you weren't clear on what to do, here's what I did.

1) I copied the file MM4b_buildings.txt located in folder x:\.....\Total War\Medieval - Total War

2) I opened it in Notepad, then did a "Find" search for "TRADING_POST". Note there is an entry "Trading Post". Please note the difference in the two. You need to replace the first above, "TRADING_POST".

Delete this, "TRADING_POST" and replace it with "LEV1_INCOME". Type it in precisely (better to simply copy and paste). Save the file and whalla!

Luck!

ToranagaSama
09-04-2005, 22:28
Sorry,

1) should read that I copied the file, MM4b_buildings.txt to my desktop as a backup.
2) Then opened the file x:\.....\Total War\Medieval - Total War\MM4b_buildings.txt, where the change s/b made and saved.

[Moderator, I need to be able to edit my post!]

Greeny
09-04-2005, 22:57
I've made the change Wes sugested and the game seems to be running OK. I noticed the sprites for Ghulam Cavalry are messed up.

ToranagaSama
09-05-2005, 06:47
Finally installed the new updates. Forgot to do the fix, and stared at the screen for awhile as the program got lost in an a long *debugging* cycle, before I realized and decided to reboot, as it wouldn't "End Task". I wonder how long it would have kept going.

Just a suggestion, for those who had crashes. You might want to check your systems, either they ran out of resources during the debugging, or your Memory had a hiccup. Common causes for crashes I don't think your systems s/h crashed under these circumstances. JMO.

Anyway, Wes, is it possible to Mod things to allow Princes to be capable of becoming Govenors and hold other Offices as well? This is something I have been hoping for a very long time. Not at all sure why CA prevented this.

Got some interesting comments regarding the Sicilians that I'll post later.

Thanks again!

ToranagaSama
09-05-2005, 12:41
Played a little last night. New Campaign, Sicilians. Just a few observations:

Cumins eliminated in 1324. Pretty damn early?

Year 1325, and I have received 1000 Florins from the Pope, and the year before a previous 1000. I have done NOTHING, except bribe my way into Sardina and Ally with the Genoans. That's It! I do have a rather large stack staring at the Papist. Maybe he thinks paying will forestall an attack. ;)) No, something is strange.

1326 another 1000 from the Pope. 1332 another 1000. Nothing to merit the award. Still have not attacked anyone. I have an additional ally in the Brits, who are warring with the Scotts and French. 1336 another 1000 a couple of turns after I attacked the Argonese, afterwhich the Pope requested that I ceasefire and not conduct activities for 10 years. Weak SOB. ;)

5000 Florins in pretty quick order for doing NOTHING!

Acehea, despite being held by the Venetians for a very long time, possibly from the Start (?), this province does not have, and NEVER builds a port. I forget the exact date, sometime in the early 1340s.

The High Era is starting to grow on me....

Revenant
09-05-2005, 13:22
I have one issue concerning marriages.

In vanilla MTW and in every other mod I met, muslim (and probably pagan) heirs were automatically "married" as they came to age. And Muslim and Pagan factions were not "producing" princesses. Not so in MedMod4.

Heirs start without wife and, curiously, king produces princesses.

I always thought it was linked to faction culture and/or religion, but now I do not know.

For me, the arrangement of marriages was always the most frustrating aspect of the game. I want to concentrate on bulding infractructure, training of units and on fighting battles and not on "hunting" some suitable brides for princes. On harder settings, everybody rejects my proposals continuously.

So, does somebody know solution to this issue?

Lord Ovaat
09-05-2005, 17:07
OK, busy weekend, but I've still found some time to run a handful of auto campaigns as the Papists after deleting the second "1" after Spanish in the startpos. Understand that I run on the "large" setting, so one's results will be quite different using other sizes. It really impacts resources.

One odditiy is that the Cumans have managed to survive to the end or near end of all the campaigns. They don't seem to do much; probably broke, but I can't check them.

The Portuguese ALWAYS survive, and are often strong.

The Venetians now seem to be under control, with no apparent super-advantages.

The master merchant CAN be built with no problem.

I've noticed some trading houses in provinces with no tradable resources or trade routes. I'll try, over time, to make a list, but they don't seem to be affecting game-play.

All but one of the campaigns I ran went to conclusion, even one that I started in 1206 by altering the startpos. That gave the factions more than enough time to build whatever they could. Tricky, with the unlockable factions, 'cause you never know what they're up to.

My lone lock-up crash occured in 1401. I checked every possible faction and eliminated everything--unit or building--about to complete. This campaign is simply locked. The surviving unlockable factions were, Cuman, Lithuanians, Portuguese, and Teutonic Order. Since the Cumans and Portuguese usually survive until the end without problem, I figure a culprit may lie with either the Lithuanians, Teutonic Order, or both. Then again, maybe the Cumans had enough extra cash to build something it shouldn't, lol.

TS, I completely agree that Princes should be able to govern, but that may be hard-coded or someone surely would have altered it in this length of time.

As far as the Popes generosity goes, he is a very benevolent fellow when you are a Christian faction, AND he has extra money, AND you haven't ticked him off. I've received numerous gifts while playing even the MedMod English, who are no where near Rome. I have no way of know if the AI ever gives money to AI Christian factions. Would be interesting to find out. You may see the gifts more often with smaller unit sizes, since that would provide "disposable" income for the Pope. Also, I can't remember what it was even like to play vanilla MTW, so I can't remember if I was given an "allowance". LOL

Wes, I made no changes in the merchant or trading entries in the startpos, and the game still loaded and played rather smoothly. I do believe the merchant glitch is corrected. Good work.

If I have the time, I think I'll start an actual campaign with someone and see what happens.

Del Arroyo
09-05-2005, 19:19
Well, it turned out I had a much older beta version than I thought (i.e. mm4_full files) so I just downloaded all the new graphics and texts and applied the manual fixes. When I loaded my old game, it didn't crash-- but I came to life as the Ronin faction. That was interesting for oh, about 2 turns. Oh well.

I have to say though-- the new faction shields are AWESOME!! I don't know who the hell did all of those but GOOD WORK! I started a game last night as the Scots, which is actually pretty boring (you never really fight the English, just move in after they depopulate to fight the French, and wait for their castles to fall, then wait to get Dockyards built...)-- today maybe I'll try out the Outremer states, just for a change of region.

DA

ToranagaSama
09-05-2005, 21:57
I have one issue concerning marriages.

In vanilla MTW and in every other mod I met, muslim (and probably pagan) heirs were automatically "married" as they came to age. And Muslim and Pagan factions were not "producing" princesses. Not so in MedMod4.

Heirs start without wife and, curiously, king produces princesses.

I always thought it was linked to faction culture and/or religion, but now I do not know.

For me, the arrangement of marriages was always the most frustrating aspect of the game. I want to concentrate on bulding infractructure, training of units and on fighting battles and not on "hunting" some suitable brides for princes. On harder settings, everybody rejects my proposals continuously.

So, does somebody know solution to this issue?

Regarding Marriage, the Hunt is on! It's an aspect of the game, an aspect of Medieval life. Really though, a great thing about the MedMod is that through the changes and improvements, many of the little things, the detail things are somewhat enhanced.

For example, if you take the time to work it and notice, Alliances work exceptionally well. Marriage was an integral part of arranging Alliances. It would be wise to utilize this feature in making and cementing Alliances.

In a general way, last night, I noticed that a Faction which allies with you can be more *trusted* if the Faction also accepts Marriage with you. If the Faction Allies, but refused to Marry, then I would think it less likely to be trusted---or, perhaps, the treacherous Genoans are just particularly suited to betrayal! ;)

The absolute key to marriage is the **Influence** level of your King. Low Influence and nobody wants to marry. High Influence and marriage becomes a lot easier. I've begun to note that 5 or more Influence is what it takes (at least for the MedMod, don't remember Vanilla).

Also, certain Factions are somewhat predisposed to marry and ally with one another, as long as your King has fair Influence (minimum 4 level). For example, as the Sicilians, I've noted that the Spanish are the best Faction for me to approach. I'd wager a 75% or better success rate.

The trick is in discovering *which* faction(s) is/are the one(s). :)

Certain Factions will find your Faction inherently socially beneath them. I believe this behaviour (and marriage in general) is coded to reflect the historic relations between the Factions. Some found others to be contemptable and below their station. It will be hard to marry into such factions---if your faction is viewed as low lifes! :)

Truly, though, you can ignore marriage, if you wish. Your King will always automatically be married, ultimately, thats the only thing you need. Alternately, I think you would be missing out on an interesting and useful aspect of the game.

Another thing about Marriage, marrying your Princesses to your Generals increases their Loyalty.

Marriage is a Strategic element.

So, in answer to you question: Increase the *Influence* of your King!

TS.

ToranagaSama
09-05-2005, 22:24
Regarding the Pope, I've always played on the default unit size.

The way I wrote the observation may not highlight the oddity:

1324: 1000 Florins
1325: 1000 Florins
1326: 1000 Florins

Three years in a row. In my experience, the Pope has never been so *succesively* generous. Certainly, not without some impetus. I did NOTHING!

1332: 1000 Florins
1336: 1000 Florins

This, as far as the Sicilians go, is unbalancing as they are already ridiculously RICH! (with the new makeup). 5000 free Florins and the game just started! Perhaps its a consequence of the High Era---someone else might know better.

---

Excepting the Cumins, I concur with Lord Ovatt's observations.

Taking Aragon is the key for the Portugese. If they do this, then they can quickly become extremely rich and powerful. I *believe* whomever takes Aragon, will become the Pennisula power, and easily move into Africa. Need to play thur this campaign and another to decide if they might be a potential Uber power.

Yes! Regarding the Venetians, they still have the capability of building Uber (troop) stacks; and, will build and spread their ships, but the fact that they are under constant *siege* in their home provinces, as well as that HRE province they take next door. The Venetians are in constant struggle for these three provinces. THIS keeps them in check!!! to great effect. No Uber ship Stacks!

Regarding Ship Stacks---At the Start I noted that the Genoans and one other faction (forget which) started with 2 or 3 ships in a stack. Previously, with Vanilla, and I believe with other MedMod versions, the AI would continue with the game and these ships would remain *stacked*.

With v4, the AI immediately *un-stacked* the ships and spread them out, in a STRING!, maximizing Trade potential.

To make the point, the AI, appears, to ONLY *Stack* its ships in times of War. I began to note, when I spotted a *stacked* stack, then that Faction is at war. Amazingly, and rightly, once the war is concluded, the AI will, then, *un-stack* its ships. Incredible!!

What more could one ask? This behaviour change alone makes the MedMod great.

Magnificient! WesW you have out did yourself!!

I wonder, has any other Modder solved this puzzle?

OK, enough with the gushing praise.... ;)

Also, the Byz do not appear to becoming an Uber faction, relatively (MedMod) normal Faction behaviour, inevitably they'll clash with the Venitians.

Oh! and even the Serbs(??)(red flag faction) appear to be surviving. Serbia starts out as Rebel, but was soon taken by the "Red Flag Faction", I presume they are Serbia (??). The nice thing is that neither, the Byz, Venetians, Hungarians, nor the Poles (or are they the Poles?) have powered their way into this province. This is good.

No Master Merchant/CTD issues so far, still early though. Not 1400 yet. Tic Toc, Tic, Toc.

----

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

Not sure how much credit goes to Wes or anyone else, but BIG JOHN is the man!!!

F'ing great work! Great Work!

The Faction graphics are so BEAUTIFUL it gives me chills. Click the little hands and scroll thru a seemingly endless number of shields. All as pretty as Candy. Truly adds to the atmosphere. I don't know how well the other modders have did, but I' be surprised if anyone has done this well.

To everyone involved with v4, Bravo! and Thanks!.

Back to the Campaign....

Big_John
09-05-2005, 23:32
Not sure how much credit goes to Wes or anyone else, but BIG JOHN is the man!!!

F'ing great work! Great Work!

The Faction graphics are so BEAUTIFUL it gives me chills. Click the little hands and scroll thru a seemingly endless number of shields. All as pretty as Candy. Truly adds to the atmosphere. I don't know how well the other modders have did, but I' be surprised if anyone has done this well.hey thanks a lot man! i worked pretty hard when i had the time to do so. Aenlic, Rankia and Mouzafphaerre helped me find some faction graphics.. um, the cumans (mostly) where done by VikingHorde (i'm pretty sure). other than that, i did the new graphics. unfortunately i haven't had any time to work on them lately. wes has some specific requests too, but i haven't had time to get to them (soon hopefully!). i haven't even had a chance to play the newest release yet. :bigcry:

WesW
09-06-2005, 00:18
Glad to hear that the crashes seem to be solved, or at least seem to be few and far between.
I was thinking last night that the problem may have been related to memory as much as anything, though there may still be other issues invloved. This is one of the frustrating aspects of modding, in that we can't see the core code.
Anyway, I noticed last night that the game had a tendency to load very slowly if I had another large program running at the same time, even if there was sufficient ram available. This could well make the game unstable in transition moments, such as entering or exiting the battle screen, or updating the strat map.
Back when I started expanding the game with version three there was definitely an increase in load time, and that has continued with the further expansions for version four, so I figure you need at least 256M of ram available for the system to remain stable. My system has 512M.

Ok, who wants to tell TS that he's been playing the Late era all this time? ~;)
Myself, I generally prefer the High era, but I hope to make all three diverse and interesting. I actually see the Late era as more of a conquest game, as opposed to the Early era when it's more about development and diplomacy. I guess I like the High era the best because you get a balance of the two.

Has anyone loaded up some custom battles so as to check out the units and see if they look right? Thanks for the Ghulam cav info. Like the Kats, the problem was that I didn't update the mod files, as opposed to the ones in my game. There is no way to use either the creation or modified date to see which ones should be included in the mod.

As for faction adjustments, about all I did for the Venetians was remove some of their starting ships and a few infantry units. I also deleted one or two Genoese ships, since all their ports occupy the same sea.
I started a few games as different factions to see how their starting unit production capabilities were, and made some major changes to a few of them. It's surprising to hear about the Portuguese success, since I forgot to give them hardly any starting production buildings (they had plenty of economic structures, though).
It's interesting how the Sicilians have gone from hanging on to rich with the switch from Provence to Sicily.
The Red faction TS referred to is the Bulgarians, I believe, since they always take Serbia in the games I have run.

As for faction behavior, we don't have access to that code, so I can't take a lot of credit for the Venetians' handling of their fleet. However, I did change their personality type, back in version one, I believe, in order to obtain just this type of result.
They were set as Traders, while the Danes were Naval Expansionists. Well, it turns out that the Expansionists tended to spread out their ships more, while the Traders tended to bunch their ships similar to the "war" behavior you described. It would be interesting to view the hard code to see if this was the result of a bug. Things just like this are frighteningly common when you start looking beneath the covers, as it were.
A tremendous amount of work and study has gone into the more subtle areas of the game, such as this, and I honestly don't think you get this in any of the other mods out there, or not nearly to the extent that you find in the Medmod.

The faction graphics are indeed first-rate, and all the credit goes to Big John for that. Not only for the new factions, but he has now re-worked all the original factions which had rather boring flags, like the Muslims and Byzantines. There are several factions which aren't in the Late era, or haven't been implemented yet, and what he has made for them is equally as good as what is already on display.

To see them all, you can go into the MTW\Battle\flags and open those up. These are tgas, so you can open them with most any graphics program.

Now that the crashes seem to be under control, and most all of the graphics implemented, I can turn my attention to Aenlic's and Belasario's work with the new names and heroes.

As for the princes and princesses, there is no way to mod the princes to be governors. As for princesses and marriage, that is apparently set by the availability of the princess "unit" in the units text. This first appeared as a bug when I first started developing v3, but upon discussion there was general agreement that it was a good change for the Muslim factions, so I left it in. Since the Muslim factions had children just as often as the Christian factions, having all males gave them big advantage, especially early in the game and especially in the earlier campaigns. Also, after the Battle of Manzikert, the Turkish sultan requested a Byzantine princess as part of the peace treaty, so there is historical evidence in that regard as well.

Revenant
09-06-2005, 12:27
I noticed several bugs:

-There is not path form Rum to Edessa. I think It is not intentional, because there are data for crossing from Rum to Edessa in Startpos file. So I added Edessa for Rum borders line.

-I abandoned the province of Macedonia and was informed about two uprising there at the same time.The first was some sort of bandits (probably catholic) and second was peasant rebellion. I was surprised, because as I checked rebels, there were a unit of Futtuwas and unit of Orhodox Priest in the stack! I checked Priest in Units datafile, bud did not find any anomaly. I even changed his availability to several factions only (he was available to generic "Orthodox" before) and did some testing , bacause I have save position just before rebellion. He always appeared. The other unit changed, but the Priest was there. :dizzy2:

-Order ManAtArms do not have weapons and shields. It is because of missing files for them in: Medieval - Total War\Textures\Men\CUSTOM2 folder.

Big_John
09-06-2005, 17:27
just a small note on attribution: neither the georgian nor vlach flags in battle\flags are mine. i'm not sure who did those.

Revenant
09-06-2005, 19:23
Regarding Marriage, the Hunt is on! It's an aspect of the game, an aspect of Medieval life. Really though, a great thing about the MedMod is that through the changes and improvements, many of the little things, the detail things are somewhat enhanced.

For example, if you take the time to work it and notice, Alliances work exceptionally well. Marriage was an integral part of arranging Alliances. It would be wise to utilize this feature in making and cementing Alliances.

In a general way, last night, I noticed that a Faction which allies with you can be more *trusted* if the Faction also accepts Marriage with you. If the Faction Allies, but refused to Marry, then I would think it less likely to be trusted---or, perhaps, the treacherous Genoans are just particularly suited to betrayal! ;)

The absolute key to marriage is the **Influence** level of your King. Low Influence and nobody wants to marry. High Influence and marriage becomes a lot easier. I've begun to note that 5 or more Influence is what it takes (at least for the MedMod, don't remember Vanilla).

Also, certain Factions are somewhat predisposed to marry and ally with one another, as long as your King has fair Influence (minimum 4 level). For example, as the Sicilians, I've noted that the Spanish are the best Faction for me to approach. I'd wager a 75% or better success rate.

The trick is in discovering *which* faction(s) is/are the one(s). :)

Certain Factions will find your Faction inherently socially beneath them. I believe this behaviour (and marriage in general) is coded to reflect the historic relations between the Factions. Some found others to be contemptable and below their station. It will be hard to marry into such factions---if your faction is viewed as low lifes! :)

Truly, though, you can ignore marriage, if you wish. Your King will always automatically be married, ultimately, thats the only thing you need. Alternately, I think you would be missing out on an interesting and useful aspect of the game.

Another thing about Marriage, marrying your Princesses to your Generals increases their Loyalty.

Marriage is a Strategic element.

So, in answer to you question: Increase the *Influence* of your King!

TS.

Influence of my King was 7 and nobody ever accepted my proposal for marriage. I played Ottomans... It has probably something with being muslim faction.

And my apology. Even in vanilla MTW, muslim princes are not automatically married once they come to age. They are automatically married if they become kings, of course.

Del Arroyo
09-07-2005, 01:54
Umm, I don't know if I did this totally wrong or what, but with the "Merchant" line changed to "LEV1_INCOME" instead of "TRADING_POST", the trading posts/merchant guilds in the game were definitely not producing any kind of income whatsoever.

When the line was changed back to "TRADING_POST", things functioned normally and they were no longer broken. Has anyone else noticed this? Or did I just do it wrong?

DA

ToranagaSama
09-07-2005, 02:49
Influence of my King was 7 and nobody ever accepted my proposal for marriage. I played Ottomans... It has probably something with being muslim faction.

Right. The behaviour is hard-coded. I don't recall specific language, but its stated in the Manual regarding the Christian/Muslim relationship.

During Medieval times, it was VERY rare to have cross-religious marriage. Marriage/Succession was viewed, culturally, somewhat differently. The game attempts to reflect those differences.

So, while there are Muslim *Princesses*, because of the hard-coding, it doesn't translate into equal *game* behaviour.

Rightly, there shouldn't be Muslim Princesses in the MedMod; but, it was a glitch that appeared in a previous version(s). Everyone seemed to like the idea (though flawed), and so it was not *corrected*.

I've never played an Islamic faction with the MedMod, so how severly this effects those factions is unknown to me. Just look at it as part of the challenge. :))

---

So, you weren't able to marry with other Muslim factions?

Aenlic
09-07-2005, 02:50
Don't change that line if you're playing with the latest update, Del Arroyo! That was only a temporary fix I discovered prior to this last update.

The version now available only needs one minor change. Go into the /campmap/startpos folder, open the beta_MM4.txt file, scroll down to the SetShieldImage lines and change FN_Spanish11 to FN_Spanish1

The merchant bug should be fixed. It apparently had something to do with the order that buildings appear in the build.txt file, and so is probably something hardcoded.

Belisarivs
09-07-2005, 06:25
Back when I started expanding the game with version three there was definitely an increase in load time, and that has continued with the further expansions for version four, so I figure you need at least 256M of ram available for the system to remain stable. My system has 512M.


May I know what causes such troubles?
I have 128 MB RAM and didn't have such problems with BKB supermod, even though it has more units and perhaps factions and provices completely rebuilt.

WesW
09-07-2005, 07:34
I noticed several bugs:

-There is not path form Rum to Edessa. I think It is not intentional, because there are data for crossing from Rum to Edessa in Startpos file. So I added Edessa for Rum borders line.

-I abandoned the province of Macedonia and was informed about two uprising there at the same time.The first was some sort of bandits (probably catholic) and second was peasant rebellion. I was surprised, because as I checked rebels, there were a unit of Futtuwas and unit of Orhodox Priest in the stack! I checked Priest in Units datafile, bud did not find any anomaly. I even changed his availability to several factions only (he was available to generic "Orthodox" before) and did some testing , bacause I have save position just before rebellion. He always appeared. The other unit changed, but the Priest was there. :dizzy2:

-Order ManAtArms do not have weapons and shields. It is because of missing files for them in: Medieval - Total War\Textures\Men\CUSTOM2 folder.
Thanks for the bug reports. I continue to find new and creative ways to produce bugs, all for your hunting pleasure! ~D
As for the rebellions, their hardcode must be buggy as hell. You come across all kinds of weird things with them.
I'm curious, though. Was the Priest part of a stack? If not, are you positive he wasn't an existing unit that the AI happened to produce there, or move to that province the same turn the rebellion occured? I've noticed that the AI seems to make a lot of agent-type units in provinces outside its homeland.


"May I know what causes such troubles?
I have 128 MB RAM and didn't have such problems with BKB supermod, even though it has more units and perhaps factions and provices completely rebuilt."
Well, the main factor is probably the campaign text. I guess I place a lot more starting buildings, especially in the Late campaign. I checked, and the BKB early file has 4000 lines, while mine has 5600. This is compared with 3000 lines in the original file. There are similar differences in the Heroes text. We both maxed out the number of provinces, factions and units allowed per campaign.
Unless I have missed something, there haven't been any new crashes reported with the latest update, so there may well not be any added system requirements with this mod, now that the buildings are functioning properly.

Aenlic
09-07-2005, 18:05
No crashes yet. Looks pretty darn stable to me. Good job!

Greeny
09-07-2005, 19:57
Crashes at the end of a turn, or after a battle, seem to be fixed in this latest version. However, I'm getting CTDs now while taking the strategic map turn itself, with no apparent triggers. :dizzy2: (this is playing as the Turks). I have 512MB of RAM. The new faction shields do look great though ~:cheers: .

Revenant
09-08-2005, 07:56
---

So, you weren't able to marry with other Muslim factions?


Yes, I was not. But, to be honest, I wiped out Mamluks early, so there were only Almohads. But they never gave their princess to me ~;)


I see one issue with this situation: There are only three muslim factions in the game and so the chance of marriages between them is quite small. The automatical married status of muslim King is helpful, but christian factions now have one advantage. Married relatives of the ruling King can have children too, even if they are not displayed. And If such relative becomes the King, they can begin with several children.

As muslim, only the King is producing Children.

Revenant
09-08-2005, 08:09
Was the Priest part of a stack? If not, are you positive he wasn't an existing unit that the AI happened to produce there, or move to that province the same turn the rebellion occured? I've noticed that the AI seems to make a lot of agent-type units in provinces outside its homeland.





The Priest was part of the stack. A one-man unit with three stars ~D After I tried to fight with them, the game CTD (I tried to command the battle personally).

reconspy
09-08-2005, 12:50
UPDATE: I've just installed an older version of the beta (one from several weeks ago, sorry don't know exactly when) over a fresh install of MTW:VI, patched 2.01. And it works fine. So it has to be the files I downloaded today that is causing the problems. :(

Hi guys,

Ok, this is weird. I was playing the beta 4 a few weeks ago but then stopped. Recently, I downloaded the beta again and installed it over a fresh install of MTW:VI, patched to 2.01

When I attempted to start the game, nothing happened. The program was not responding and CPU usage was at 100%. I thought that maybe it was a bad install so I uninstalled everything and started again.

To be on the safe side, I installed MTW:VI and patched it to 2.01 again. However, this time I started the game without installing the beta first. Everything was fine, and I could start and play a game of vanilla MTW.

I then installed the beta, and the same problem occurred.

I have attempted reinstalls several times but to no avail. Restarting also does not help.

The only change I have made to this computer since the last time I played this beta, and in fact the change was made today, was getting the latest drivers from ATI (5.8). However, as the problem only occurred after the install of the beta (as noted above), I do not think this is the problem.

I am running an Athlon XP @ 2GHz, 512 RAM, and ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. I don't think it's my computer either as I have played the previous 3.14 and an older version of beta 4 before.

My last option is to do a format, though obviously I am quite reluctant to do this.

Also, I am saddened with every letter I type in this post. (I love this mod, sad panda+++)

I hope this is a problem that can be fixed, or a problem that can be reproduced by someone else (no malice intended).

:(

Lord Ovaat
09-08-2005, 15:48
Reconspy, Wes probably hasn't changed the new update to fix the problem he found, ie......


Sorry guys. I forgot to load the game after implementing the Spanish graphics.

Open up the campaign file, in the campmap\startpos folder, and remove the second "1" from "FN_SPANISH11" in line 2463, I believe. Here is how the line should look:

SetShieldImage:: FN_SPANISH1 "Spain1_lge" "Spain1_sml" "Spain1" "FN1011" "FN1011"

Btw, I successfully loaded a game with a Master Marketplace, so I really hope these crashes are gone.

Hope this helps.

On another note, I'm currently running a campaign as the Teutonic Order. I should have chosen a faction that is included in the IAN code. The game has been going rather smoothly, with only one CTD, but that was major. In order to eliminate the CTD, I had to go back about 20 turns to keep the AI from repeating. CTD happened about 50 turns into game. I checked with all observable factions (a fortunate auto-save two turns before CTD), and eliminated all buildings and troops from all ques. It still crashed. The only unobservable factons still in the game were Bulgarians, Cumans, Lithuanians, Outremer, and of course, the Portuguese. I don't know what they were doing, but the CTD certainly wasn't caused by what one of the other factions was building. The only "incident" that was occuring in the turn right before the crash (crash occured as I hit end year) that was unusual was an Egyptian re-emergence in Edessa, Syria, and Arabia. Ok, all of the "new" troops were catapults, but that never caused a crash before. I also know it's not a memory problem with my machine. I have a gig of ram and 128 on my card. Everything runs well.

Also, Gotland is too small. I sent an emissary in and he took up position behind a princess. That was the last I ever saw of him, LOL. You can't remove him without moving the princess first.

Revenant
09-08-2005, 22:05
One bug report and one balancig issue:

Bug: OutremerMenAtArms do not have weapon+shield animation (missing files).

Balancing: Two handed, armour cleaving line of western troops (gothic foot knights, Teutonic foot knights, Armoured huscarles..) are very inferior to similar sword+shield type troops (ordonnance men at arms, Ryzerz foot, etc. They always lose horribly in head to head fight with them.

I think they need better attack value. They are using their big weapons double handed and so their skill should not be decreased. Absence of shield and thus vulnerability to missiles+worse defence should compensate their armour piercing ability.

reconspy
09-08-2005, 22:39
Edit: Ok, that fixed the problem. Cheers!

ToranagaSama
09-09-2005, 03:25
Wes, I had intended to request this of you earlier, I think it would be good to *number* or otherwise designate each uploaded ***Update***. If for no other reason than to ensure that EVERYONE is utilizing the SAME files.

As for CTDs, its year 1380 and no CTDs or stability issues whatsoever.

@Lord Ovaat,


I also know it's not a memory problem with my machine. I have a gig of ram and 128 on my card. Everything runs well.
[OFF TOPIC]
Memory issues are not normally the consequence of the *amount* of RAM, but the Quality of the RAM itself. For example, in the lastest CTD issue, my system did not CTD, rather it entered into a seemingly endless *debugging* cycle.

My system was fully functional. I opened my browser, went online, did some other task I forget, and my housekeeping program (automatically) loaded and went about its business scanning my drives, and my system was stable. If I recall correctly, CPU utilization was *less* than normal when the MedMod is loaded, which is 50% (and that's with other software up and running).

From this I suggested that those systems that did crash, as a result of the same bug, entered the same debugging cycle, they either were overwhelmed in terms of system resources, and/or the Memory *Space* was overwritten.

Each of which will lead to a CTD or *Freeze. I noted this instance, was the first report of a *Freeze*. Resource crashes are a system quality issue, memory being overwritten (or other such anomalies) are a memory *quality* issue.

The quality of one's memory can be tested with the following programs:

Memtest86 (http://www.memtest86.com/) Tried, True and the Original.

Memtest86+ (http://www.memtest.org/) an enhanced *mod* of the original.

Sorry, I can sometimes go into Anal mode regarding hardware issues ~:)
[ON TOPIC]


Also, Gotland is too small. I sent an emissary in and he took up position behind a princess. That was the last I ever saw of him, LOL. You can't remove him without moving the princess first.

Ahhh, the vagaries of MTW.

I presumed you've tried *zooming* in as close as possible. If that doesn't work, then try opening the agent parchment (or whatever its called). Click the Icon with the "Dagger"; it opens a list of your Emmissaries, Princesses, and Spys, etc.

Click or maybe its double-click on each item and you will be transported to the province containing the Agent, and the Agent will be highlighted. Now that the emissary is highlighted, you s/b able to get him out with a bit of deft hand eye coordination. ;)

@WesW


Ok, who wants to tell TS that he's been playing the Late era all this time?

I heard that!

BTW, Mr. Mad Modder, whennnnnnnn are we getting *Early*?! Hmmmm, or do I mean High? Why was I born so ~:confused: Just joking, LOL!

---

Ok, back to business:

I just took Thrace from my former ally, the Byz, who were besieging the Bulgarians. I had to lose a hundred men taking the castle, cause the Bulgarians had a SINGLE man holed up inside. Anyway....

After taking the Castle, I had [B]FOUR[/i] Offices to distribute. Is this correct so many offices?

Also, one of the offices was titled, "Grand Marshal of Sicily" (+2 command). Should that be Siciliy???? The others were,

"Govenor of Constantinople" (+2 acumen),
"Archbishop of Monreale" (+2 acumen), and
"Grand Marshal of the Treasury (+2 acumen)

---

Regarding ships:

Fire Galley: 30 Attack, 10 Defense, 2 Speed, Strength 0; Support 32
Fire Galley: 30 Attack, 20 Defense, 2 Speed, Strength 0; Support 40

Please note the differences in Defense Value and Support Cost.

They are the same ship type. The first is the ship farthest from Port. Ihave the screenshots. Please explain the differences. Thank you.

Also, from the Build Parchment:

Fire Galley: 30, 20, 2, 0; 20
Gun Galley: 40, 30, 1, 0; 13

Please, are the *relative* support costs, correct? Not only is the Gun Galley superior offensively and defensively, but it is a deep water vessel. Shouldn't the support be reversed??

---

BTW, I received another 1000 Florins from the Pope in 1348. Nothing since. Am I the only one to find the frequency of the Pope's offerings strange?

I noted a couple of other minor errors, but was too involved in the campaign to alt-tab. I'll get them next time.

WesW
09-09-2005, 05:04
Sorry about causing you trouble due to the Spanish 11 bug. If an update ever fails to load, post in the thread and wait for a reply before you take any drastic action, especially since this is a beta. It's also always a good idea to read through those posts of mine that you may have missed, since they contain all kinds of info.
I'll go ahead and start numbering the updates from now on.

I wonder if rebellions are causing the remaining CTD's. I re-worked the rebellion mixes for the last big update two weeks, and I guess there is a chance I could have messed up something, though explaining sights like a Bishop in a rebellion stack is beyond me.

TS, try using a spy to open the castle gates when there is only one man left, or an assassin to kill him.
Faction Offices are named by faction, regardless of where the buildings are located or if you originally built them.
I didn't realize that ship stats varied so much. I hadn't looked at them in forever. I went in and made them all about equal within a given age, except for the Carrack, which is slightly more powerful, and expensive, than the other Late ships.

I looked at the heavy infantry, and I can't see where the units with shields would have a big advantage over those who don't. The factors get complicated, but I spent a lot of time on the stats back when I was at the height of my knowledge, so I feel good about them.

I'll try and get another update posted this weekend to get rid of the bug, though there haven't been any big changes. I have been getting caught up on emails and tracking down various bugs. I just finished going through all the units in custom battles, and found several more graphics bugs. Surely all of those have been found, unless it's another matter of missing mods files.
I still haven't implemented the new heroes and names from Aenlic and Belasarius.

A couple of items have been brought to my attention by Big John and Revenant, respectvely, which I think everyone can participate in.

The first regards the Russians. Reading their history, Muscovy didn't become important until it through off the Mongol yoke, which wasn't fully accomplished until the end of the Late era.
I had already decided to leave the Novgorods in the High era, instead of the Russians, and the question now is whether this should continue for the Late era as well.

The other item regards Glorious Achievements and the conquest reward for conquering provinces. In my games, expansion seems harder for the larger factions than for the smaller, at least at the start of the game. And, even if you start out small, after you have conquered and built up a few provinces who have become a large faction, so I wonder if the multiplier should be different for various factions, and why.

Finally, I got around to covering the Main Hall last night, for the first time in a couple of weeks, and found the latest thread about who has the best mod. I did a triple-take when I read the guy who said the Medmod actually reduced re-playability, though TS and Del Arroyo were there to defend my honor. Based upon that guy's second post, I think TS was dead-on that he just had a bad case of sour grapes due to getting his butt kicked by the mod.
In recognition of his defense, I hereby grant TS the right to the title of Medmod Standardbearer, or similar such title that he may find appropriate, should he deign to accept the honor.

As far as the other campaigns, I want to wait until we have finished debugging this one before taking those on. Once everything is made and debugged, I hope it won't take a lot of effort to get them out. Putting them out now would cause all kinds of extra confusion with bug reports and balancing issues, and end up delaying the eventual release.

Aenlic
09-09-2005, 05:54
On the issue of the Russians/Novgorods, etc.

Muscovy was essentially a little known backwater until after the defeat of the Horde.

In the early era, the Novgorods waffled back and forth between a principality of the grand princes of Kiev and a fully autonomous republic with the princes being only figureheads and the posadniks elected by the veche having the real power. During that period, while the city of Novgorod was itself rather rich, the true power was still with the Kievans, after Oleg moved the Rus capital from Novgorod to Kiev around 900 or so. The principality of Novgorod was usually assigned to the heir of the Prince of Kiev, up until the city itself (not really the province) seceded in 1136 and declared themselves the Republic of Novgorod. Even after the capital of the Kievan Rus was moved to Vladimir, Kiev was still essentially the seat of power for all of the Kievan princes of the various areas, except for the city of Novgorod itself until the Mongol invasion. Many of the grand princes of Kiev actually ruled from their own provinces, like Vladimir Monomakh from Rostov-Suzdal, or Vsevolod III from the city of Vladimir itself in Suzdal. I still maintain that the only reason CA went with Novgorod instead of Kiev/Russians was that it was the only province to escape Mongol rule.

That said, during the period of Mongol rule, Novgorod was the only Rus province independent of the Mongols. So it would make sense, from that standpoint to include the Novgorods in the late era. It wasn't until about midway in the MTW late era that Novgorod's dependence on Muscovy for grain led to its slow downfall and absorption into greater Muscovy. Even then, Novogorod retained a lot of independence and courted the Lithuanians. It wasn't until Ivan the Terrible that the republic finally ended in the 1470's.

Revenant
09-09-2005, 11:17
I looked at the heavy infantry, and I can't see where the units with shields would have a big advantage over those who don't. The factors get complicated, but I spent a lot of time on the stats back when I was at the height of my knowledge, so I feel good about them.



OK, I will explain it a bit. I tried several custom battles to test units (I played campaign only as Ottomans so far ).

So I tried Gothic foot knights vs. Rycerz swordsmen (there are more units with similar stats as both of them).

Gothic foot: 5 3* 4 6(s) 8 Cost: 525/13
Rycerz swords: 5 5 6(s) 6(s) 6 Cost: 500/12

Thy both have the same building requirements and are Late Era units.

To my surprise, Rycerz wiped floor with Gothic foot EVERY time I tested it (ten times) ~:eek:

I raised the attack value of Gothicfoot first to 4, but the result was roughly the same. Then to 5 and finally to SIX! Believe it or not, Rycerz still win in majority even now, but at least they are badly mauled in the proces. I did a minor change to them also - change their armour value to 5 and removed the "virtual" shield, which cannot be used in CC, because they do not have any.

I then tried the same thing with other pair of similar units, this time it was Swabian Swordsmen vs. Feudal MAA. Swabian swordsmen get their butt kicked as soundly as Gothic foot before, even they are more expensive and need spearmaker 3 and thus Castle for production.

Swabians: Cost:375/9 Stats: 6 3* 2 2(4) 4
Feudal MAA: Cost: 275/7 Stats: 3 3 4(s) 4(s) 2

So, my conclusion:

I think the same Era units with similar cost/upkeep and building requirements should have similar combat performace, or excel against some sort of opponent. They should have similar stats, or, if they have worse stats, they should be more numerous (as you excellently did with muslim units). Or, At least, the faction who have them should be superior in some area of combat to everybody else, if they are really worse.

Another interesting thing I found in Early Swedes/Danes. They have infantry clearly inferior to, say FeudalMAA, (for example), as their Viking Karls, or Svea Axemen cannot compete with them. But their Hirden are really superior to other faction´s Knights, because they have bonuses vs. Horses and armour piercing weapon... It is not disbalance, because they are weak in one area but strong in other, it is just weird for me, because you wrote you wanted Scandinavian factions to have strong infantry and weak cavalry.

End of rant ~;)

Regarding your mod, I think it is the best one I encountered so far, because you solved a lot of AI issues and the concept of homelands is a great idea, so keep good work, man :2thumbsup:

tutankamon
09-12-2005, 10:28
Hey
From what other people have written, this mod sounds really exiting but how do i install it? i tried with first the core game then the viking invasion part and finally patched it up before installing the 3 parts for the mod.. but it won't work it.. simply stalls.. now I'm that much a computer expert so could anyone please tell what I'm doing wrong

reconspy
09-12-2005, 12:00
@tutankamon

As quoted by Wes:

Open up the campaign file, in the campmap\startpos folder, and remove the second "1" from "FN_SPANISH11" in line 2463, I believe. Here is how the line should look:

SetShieldImage:: FN_SPANISH1 "Spain1_lge" "Spain1_sml" "Spain1" "FN1011" "FN1011"

Lord Ovaat
09-12-2005, 12:59
The Teutonic Order cannot build arbalests in Muscovy, Smolensk, nor Marovia. Not sure about Pomerania--they don't own it yet. They can build arbalests in the Danish/Swedish provinces, however, along with the expected early era Nordic units.

Wes, in view of the last couple of posts, and per TS's suggestion, you probably need to remove the second "1" from the update, lol.

Thanks for help, TS. My 'puter seems to be functioning OK, good scores on Mark '03, and not getting any noticable lag in campaigns or battles. If I knew how to actually make a disk, I would. I'm deaf, and have never needed to copy songs or whatnot, lol. Also, the Gotland problem........ I tried everything you had suggested before you offered the help, but still no go. If there are more than a couple of stacks of anything in the province, ie, troops, spies, etc., they just stack up behind one another. I knew my emissary was behind the little princess, and when I clicked on his name from the agent parchment, I could see the little triangles revolving around his base, behind the princess, but could not see nor acquire him. Frustrating. Ordinarily wouldn't care, but the little snipe had four stars! :furious3:

Eternal Champion
09-12-2005, 18:41
I could see the little triangles revolving around his base, behind the princess, but could not see nor acquire him.

I've had this happen before and what I do is super zoom in and you can usually see a piece of the base and then just grab it.

ToranagaSama
09-13-2005, 07:16
Hey
From what other people have written, this mod sounds really exiting but how do i install it? i tried with first the core game then the viking invasion part and finally patched it up before installing the 3 parts for the mod.. but it won't work it.. simply stalls.. now I'm that much a computer expert so could anyone please tell what I'm doing wrong

Realize that version 4 is *beta*!

There are still a number of issues to be worked out, and ONLY the "Late" era is available.

If you'd like, and I'd suggest, you can try the earlier version 3.14 which is quite polished and finished, plus all the Eras are available. It is easier to comprehend, though VERY challenging. I strongly suggest playing a couple of 3.14 campaigns prior to moving to version 4.

You can find the 3.14 links in my Sig.

Welcome to the MedMod, prepare to be *spanked*! ~D

---

@Lord Ovatt

[OFFTOPIC/Anal Mode]

Just for fun try running one of those Tests. BTW 3DMark primarily test your Video Card performance, and in a particular manner as well. Memtest tests your memory.

If you would like to *stress* test your 'System', a good tool is: Prime95 (http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm)

This is software which searches for Prime Numbers, and will truely put your system to its limits. It will expose CPU shortcomings, Memory shortcomings, and most especially *heat* issues. Though it won't stress your video card/GPU. A key tool for overclockers.

If you've got an ATI video card, here's another tool, for overclockers, but can be used at your GPU's default clock speeds (non-overclocked) to test just how well your GPU is performing within your system. If you see artifacting, then your GPU and/or System is running too hot.

ATI Tool (http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/)

[END TOPIC/End Anal Mode]

---

Wes, I wasn't intending to bring it up yet, being a rather minor point, but with 3.14 you worked some *magic* on the Province "Gather Point(s)". Improving circumstances such as Ovatt's hidden emmissary(?).

I'm wondering if this was overlooked for v4, or perhaps isn't functioning as well as with 3.14?? If possible, its something to look at, particularly regarding v4, as there are a number of rather small provinces, such as Venice, Valencia, most of the Genoan provinces, and, apparently, Gotland (sp?).

Just something to think about, when time allows.


TS, try using a spy to open the castle gates when there is only one man left, or an assassin to kill him.
Faction Offices are named by faction, regardless of where the buildings are located or if you originally built them.
I didn't realize that ship stats varied so much. I hadn't looked at them in forever. I went in and made them all about equal within a given age, except for the Carrack, which is slightly more powerful, and expensive, than the other Late ships.

Thanks for the tip! Didn't think of those. Quite appropriate for hte circumstance. Haven't attempted to open the gates since MTW first relesed; and, I only assinate other Agents.

Regarding the Offices, I get it.

Re Ships, cool, look forward to the changes. Though, I'm still curious as to the stat variance of ships of the same type.


...I did a triple-take when I read the guy who said the Medmod actually reduced re-playability....

:joker:

As you could see, I had a similarly strong reaction. :furious3:


...I hereby grant TS the right to the title of Medmod Standardbearer....

Does this Title come with a Custom Org Avatar??? ;)


As far as the other campaigns, I want to wait until we have finished debugging this one before taking those on. Once everything is made and debugged, I hope it won't take a lot of effort to get them out. Putting them out now would cause all kinds of extra confusion with bug reports and balancing issues, and end up delaying the eventual release.

Don't mind me, I was just joking. I fully understand and appreciate that the Late era is the *right* era for testing.

Haven't had time to play in the last couple of days, going to try and play for an *hour* right now.... An hour.....hahahahahaha.... Who am I kidding???

WesW
09-13-2005, 12:45
The Teutonic Order cannot build arbalests in Muscovy, Smolensk, nor Marovia. Not sure about Pomerania--they don't own it yet. They can build arbalests in the Danish/Swedish provinces, however, along with the expected early era Nordic units.

Wes, in view of the last couple of posts, and per TS's suggestion, you probably need to remove the second "1" from the update, lol.

Thanks for help, TS. My 'puter seems to be functioning OK, good scores on Mark '03, and not getting any noticable lag in campaigns or battles. If I knew how to actually make a disk, I would. I'm deaf, and have never needed to copy songs or whatnot, lol. Also, the Gotland problem........ I tried everything you had suggested before you offered the help, but still no go. If there are more than a couple of stacks of anything in the province, ie, troops, spies, etc., they just stack up behind one another. I knew my emissary was behind the little princess, and when I clicked on his name from the agent parchment, I could see the little triangles revolving around his base, behind the princess, but could not see nor acquire him. Frustrating. Ordinarily wouldn't care, but the little snipe had four stars! :furious3:
Arbs are only available in the Danish/Swedish Homeland. This is one of those odd circumstances you run into when you don't have enough unit slots and factions have to share. Expanding them outside the normal Homeland would create provinces where Arbs would be the only unit available should the Danes or Swedes take them, and the AI would pump out hordes of them in that circumstance. Better to restrict the Order. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, though. I'll note it in the faction description.

I'll try and remember to look at Gotland in my next game. I'd think it would be large enough in normal circumstances.
I have actually spent a lot of hours on the unit and castle origins as I have been updating the map, so I hope this is the only area where there might still be a problem.
TS, you might want to check out some of the Rome avatars for a standardbearer.

I started a game as the Hungarians over the weekend, and ran into a couple of crashes. The first one went away after a few reloads, whereupon I couldn't get it to appear again. The second one only appeared in the midst of some battles, and wouldn't go away. Nor would it appear without those particular battles.
Well, after thinking things over, tonight I decided to tidy up the end of the units text, where I had some extra units I wasn't using. After doing so, the saved game which always produced the crash wouldn't even load! I tried a new game, and it ran fine, so I put the unused units back in the file, and the corrupted save once again loaded.
Given this, and the reports of things like the rebellious Bishop and the 200-man merc artillery piece, it's clear that something in the units text was messing up the game, either by itself, in conjunction with other files or during peculiar game circumstances. I can't say that this will fix all the oddities and remaining instabilities, but it should certainly help. At least we aren't faced with ripping stuff out of the game.

My sinuses have been worse the last few days, which is why I haven't posted anything, but after tonight I hope I can finish some stuff up and post the new update in the next day or two.
I also read over the Godmode commands text included in the mod, and found that it wasn't nearly as good as I thought it was, so I over-hauled it into something which should be clearer and more useful. I have pasted it below.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What I would recommend for all testing is to rt.-click your game icon, or dasktop shortcut, and under Properties, Target, add the extension "-ian". For example, a game installed to the default directory would look like this:

"C:\Program Files\Total War\Medieval - Total War\Medieval_TW.exe" -ian

I don't know which guy from CA Ian was, but he must have been one of the main playtesters or somesuch.

Once you have enabled playtesting mode with ian, you may add-on other extensions, which may be used either alone or in combination with one another. These include:
-D which is a debug mode;
-C which is self-run mode;
-Green_Generals, which kills your generals after 40 years, iirc, ala the 56-yr. death sentence with unpatched VI;
-old_rebels, which reinstates the larger uprisings present in the original game; and
-loyalty:xxx, which instructs the AI to keep provincial loyalty at this number, when you let it handle that part of the game. For example, use "-ian -loyalty:121" to insure that factions don't reappear within your territory.
Pressing the Spacebar, I believe, lets you regain control of a faction if you have turned all of them over to the AI, such as in self-run mode.

Once you have entered the -ian extension, you can either start or load an existing game, and have all kinds of powers.
All you have to do is press the key in the quotation marks. Pressing a given key a second time turns the feature off.

The most powerful one for playtesting is the command which changes which faction you control.
To control factions 1-10, in which the Rebels must be declared first, and thus be faction (1), simply press one of the numbers along the top of your keyboard. For factions 11-20, use the Shift key plus the number.
This gives you complete control of the faction, which means you can see what they are building, their finances, etc. Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to view more than the first 20 factions declared in the campaign text, but it may be that we can work around this when we get to playtesting by re-arranging their declaration order.

The ones I use most are:
"g" for god-mode, which reveals the entire map, though you can't see stack details;
"a" for autorun, which gives control of your faction to the AI and lets the game run by itself;
"#" or "'", which lets the AI take over your faction. Pressing Shift when the AI controls your faction makes it play out the battles instead of auto-computing. Using this mode with autorun takes you completely out of the game, equalling the self-run mode.

-Wes Whitaker

Lord Ovaat
09-13-2005, 19:46
Ouch, lots to answer. First, thanks, TS, for the addresses. I'm really interested in the ATI tool, since I have an ATI9800Pro. Problem is, I use Omega drivers. However, I couldn't find anywhere on their site that says one must use ATI drivers. Might be in the readme. I am a very bad, and shallow person. I regularly over-clock with Radlinker that comes with the Omega drivers. This should give me some safeguards if I can use it. BTW, I checked the parchment, and the Office of MedMod Standardbearer does not seem to provide accumen, dread, command, piety, nor avatars. Just three loyalty. Sorry. ~D

Wes, I tend to agree with you that the random crashes with the newest version seem to be "unit" related. I haven't had much of a problem, but when I have, it always seems to be related in some way to a re-emergence or uprising. Other than that, it seems to be running quite smoothly.

Been playing with the Sicilians last day or so. They don't have Sicilian Feudal and Chivalric Knights any longer. They are now full-sized units of Royal Knights. I don't know if you intended that, but it's not listed in the faction descriptions. Also, both Sicily and Campania are "showing" with a mouse-over that Royal Knights get a bonus, rather than Chivalric/Feudal respectively. I also can't tell if their stats are Royal Knight or Chivalric, but I do know that whenever I attack with them (66 man units) in the stack, the defender won't fight, they simply "run away." Guess I would, too. LOL.

And lastly, thanks for the additional IAN tips.


"#" or "'", which lets the AI take over your faction. Pressing Shift when the AI controls your faction makes it play out the battles instead of auto-computing. Using this mode with autorun takes you completely out of the game, equalling the self-run mode.

I never knew that. ~:cheers:

One final note, sort of off-topic, while closely observing the AI factions during the testing process, I have become MORE aware of a specific problem. I was aware of it from the previous 3.14, but I've been constantly exposed to it this time around. My favorite change MedMod makes, is, of course, the homeland concept. It makes the game, but it comes with a price. I already know the answer to this before I ask (and the answer is "no"), but does anyone have a thought on how to prevent the AI from squandering its resources building military buildings than can't possibly produce anything in non-homeland provinces? It would probably double the difficulty rating, which is already about three times what vanilla is. ~D

Aymar de Bois Mauri
09-13-2005, 23:36
Hi, WesW. It seems that the bug-hunting tests and the feedback are going strong. Good to know that. ~:)

I'm sorry for not having posted here earlier but as you know too well EB isn't giving me any truce and I don't really have the time to test MedMOD 4.0. :sweatdrop: It's hard to realise that has been more than 2 months since you told me the tests would begin. And now there are many pages of feedback.

I could offer my help in regard to the modding itself but, to be perfectly honest, since starting moding RTW nearly a year ago all my previous knowledge about MTW modding seems to have dispersed. Therefore, besides the lack of time, I would have to relearn a lot of the process. On the other hand, the lack of time also inpeeds me from running reliable MedMOD debugging tests. I'm... :embarassed:

Let's see if I have some time in the future to do this since I would very much like to try the Portuguese faction... :wink:

Keep it up. I'll try to keep up with the progress.

ToranagaSama
09-14-2005, 05:51
Wes,

JFYI, (did I mention this already?) the link to the Newby Guide is broken: http://wes.apolyton.net/Newby_Guide.doc

Don't recall what's in it, but wonder if its necessary given the ReadMe. If not the link s/b removed.

The reason I bring this up is, for the second time I was reccomending the MedMod to someone and looked to point them to the Newby guide. Instead I had to point them to the ReadMe (1.85), which s/b just fine.

TS