Steppe Factions

[torguskhan]

steppe/nomad factions are my favorite. someone should really consider a mod based on the steppe/nomad factions that ravaged europe for years!!! ex: cumans, volga-bulgars, tartars, chernigovs, seljuks, ilkhanate, khazar khanate, bulgars, and i know there were more steppe peoples

[edyzmedieval]

Try BKB's mod or VH mod.....

They both have the steppe peoples....

[Russ Mitchell]

In addition, there is a problem with representing the steppe factions in MTW: the steppe peoples were sort of what we'd call min-statists... they didn't build strong states, being satisfied with loose confederations.

Nor did they generally build large castles, etcetera. Their lifestyle was radically different. Highly civilised, but organized for mobility (as it had to be, because of severe climate shifts that regularly affect north eurasia).

For example:
1. The Cumans were the dominant military power in the Northern Balkans and on the "right back" (south) of the Danube, and crushed the western crusaders in 1205 (a fact that is not widely discussed). However, they were essentially mercenary troops -- available to local rulers or would-be rulers, intermarrying among the leadership, etcetera. However, the Cumans there were politically inert: they were there solely for material gain, and returned to their own lands north of the Danube. In MTW terms, they can effectively be hired as mercenaries throughout the Balkans, just as their predecessor the Pechenegs were. And you can bet your butt that if you're a local Vlach or Bulgar who'd like to re-found the Second Bulgarian dynasty, you're going to have tons of Cuman troops. (And the Bulgarian Bandits figure is, truly, just

2. While they were up north, they had their "great encampments," and controlled great swaths of territory. But they didn't fortify or build castles, or any of that business. So in MTW terms, building a fort in order to raise troops is sort of silly -- the model doesn't apply. On the other hand, they could be beautifully represented as a "Rebel" faction of an extremely rebellious province. Say the Kievans want to control Moldavia (pre-Mongol). They can, but at the cost of massive garrisions. This might reflect the constant fighting involving the Cumans. And if things get bad, you can guarantee that tons of prime-quality steppe troops are going to rebel and take control of a province.

But how do you make active factions, in the MTW model, if a sedentary lifestyle is a non-issue? You'd have a very, very compressed technology tree, because these guys should be able to produce all of their finest troops with nothing more than a local political power locus (fort?). In MTW terms, these guys already come with horse breeder X, bowyer X, etcetera. And their troops would require very little in the way of upkeep. The only thing that might balance them is their lack of serious fortifications -- if you can boot them off the land, they're done, and have to go elsewhere or else perish.

[torguskhan]

that works. it would add more variety to the game than just building and crushing your enemies. I mean historically steppe raiders never really had good defenses so the "boot them off their land, they're done" would be great for the game. If anyone worked on that they steppe peoples should have very bad economy and rely on raiding for $$$

[edyzmedieval]

that works. it would add more variety to the game than just building and crushing your enemies. I mean historically steppe raiders never really had good defenses so the "boot them off their land, they're done" would be great for the game. If anyone worked on that they steppe peoples should have very bad economy and rely on raiding for $$$

That's what we are going to include in our Byzantium Total War mod. We are going to use, for the Avars, Cumans, Pechenegs the Viking raiding system. Hopefully, we can do that.

[torguskhan]

awesome!!! i'm gonna have to check it out!!!