View Full Version : Roland\'s Song: 2x3 New Mod for MTW
This is my 4th try making MODs for the Medieval Total War Demo and truly this is a very nice MOD
As always you need to download from: http://www.geocities.com/armendoza/Medieval.html
To instale this MOD:
1)Don'T Forget to backup your original files!
2)Use Winzip and extract those files to the directory C:\Total War\Medieval - Total War (Demo Version)\Battle\batinit\Historical Battles\Jaffa
3)There you go!!
This mod is based in Roland, the mitical French Knight from Roland's song. His tragic defeat and death in the battlefield is a classic of medieval poetry. Great story and I felt like doing a MOD.
This is a 2x3 battle. You play as as Roland. You are the rearguard of Charlomagne's army on his way back to France after fighting the Muslims in Spain.
Things don't look any good. You are way behind the main army and the Moors have set an ambush. So there you are isolated, outnumbered, outmanouvred. The moors are coming from 3 sides. Far away you can see Charlomagne's forces who ignores how risky is your situation. You need to make a decission and do it soon because the moors are closing the trap.
Will you
make a run for safety leaving your infantry composed by miserable peasants behind to be slaughtered?
stay bravely with your men, dig in and fight to death on the spot?
look protection in the middle of the woods?
try to capture the hills to be safe of cavalry charges?
The battle was fought between pretty different armies and I have tried to show it in my MOD:
Roland:
-Your army is composed by fast knights and slow moving infantry
-You army is small but has very high honor and bonus.
-Your starting position sucks big time.
Moors:
-Lots of troops and they are not bad at all.
-Kick butt Desert Archers. Way better than Bowmen
-They have great starting positions
The good thing with this mod in my opinion is that there is no single way to win the battle. So far I won using 3 different tactics. I also lost using the same 3 different tactics http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Have fun
Suggestions, rants and raves can be sent to jussefix@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by Choco (edited 07-17-2002).]
Nice mod!!
I had no idea that feudal knights (mounted) worked in the demo, perfect for hastings!
On a side note, I wonder whether Charlemagne considered himself Frankish (Germanic tribe that conquered France)or more Gallo-Roman French, which the monarchy was assimilated into. Anyway..... a very entertaining mod, I managed to win with only 65 men left but some 1000 enemy soldiers killed or captured.
won with 9 men left haha.
Those saracen infantry were too much for my spearmen.
[This message has been edited by Action (edited 07-17-2002).]
Won with a similar number of kills but with 180 of my men left! I managed to make it to one of the hills off past the woods and there charged the moors downhill http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
excellent fun
I know this is off-topic but just want to comment on Roland's character:
There is just one word for him:
STUPID
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
http://www.grahamday.dial.pipex.com/rose-knight1.gif
Krypteia
07-17-2002, 20:14
nice mod , fniished it with about 90 men left
Emp. Conralius
07-18-2002, 05:31
I always loved the story. Great mod Choco. You should do some more mods with those Feaudal Knights! Keep up tha good work!
yay! i beat it too, 443 killed, lost 150 men.
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-All knowledge is worth having-
Good to see people liked the Mod ... but something must be wrong ... too many players are winning the MOD http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
The idea of making a Roland's Song MOD was that you are up to suffer a glorious, dramatic, tragic and most painful death on the battlefield.
I think I am going to boost the AI's army up to make the MOD impposible to win bwahahahahahah!!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
and why not?
can have a training variant - the current one,
and a RealDeal variant - boost AI numbers!
Choco,
i learn something new
i noticed during roland that if i simply rout one moorish army i get victory
so change trigger to
//triggers
Trigger::1, BT_GENERAL DIED, factions 3, LABEL "Keep Roland Alive.", INVERT_CHECKBOX
Trigger::2, BT_INCAPACITATE, factions 4,1,12 LABEL "Defeat the Enemy."
and now must beat all 3 armies!
Quote Originally posted by barocca:
Choco,
i learn something new
i noticed during roland that if i simply rout one moorish army i get victory
so change trigger to
//triggers
Trigger::1, BT_GENERAL DIED, factions 3, LABEL "Keep Roland Alive.", INVERT_CHECKBOX
Trigger::2, BT_INCAPACITATE, factions 4,1,12 LABEL "Defeat the Enemy."
and now must beat all 3 armies![/QUOTE]
Good tip. I am going to change the mod to see what happens
Ok I think I win on greatest victory stakes. Maybe not the most honourable but looking at the numbers, an amazing score.
Killed 183
Taken 316
Lost 20 (Yes that's right only 20 and 5 knights)
Men 280
Anyone beat that?
First time I lost the battle I have to say and it's a very good mod for showing various tatics including the importance of fighting downhill and not fighting when tired.
You can probably guess how I did it, but anyone who wants the lowdown let me know.
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
07-18-2002, 22:29
Well I haven't played the MOD (sorry) because I haven't got the demo yet (wrong computer to download onto) but tell us how you did it DN.!!
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No Fear Legend.
564 killed, 108 taken, 97 casualties.
The first move on this map is the most important of them all. I decided to take all of my spearmen and have them march up the hill into the trees. Since they a head start the only way they can be caught is by cavalry. If cav come after them they are in the trees.. so haha. I also left my feudal knights sitting back for a bit.
Didn't go exactly as I had planned. One army moved to cut me off while their cavalry struck and then the other enemy armies came down the hill. Because the enemy army rotated I could charge in to take out his archers with my horseman. Took out the archers, they move to try and take out my cav with their infantry.. I hit both archer units, decimating them, and then ran off to Charlie boy. This halted their entire army movement making a corridor for my infantry to run, few skirmishes inbetween with cavalry then a major battle between all of our forces in the trees below Charlgemane's position.
Roland ended up with 235 kills, 47 captured and 38 lost. Olivier(other feudal knight) 196 kills, 28 taken, 30 lost.
Quote Originally posted by DrNo:
Ok I think I win on greatest victory stakes. Maybe not the most honourable but looking at the numbers, an amazing score.
You can probably guess how I did it, but anyone who wants the lowdown let me know.
[/QUOTE]
Using Roland as bait to lure the Moors close enough to Charlomagne's so he sees them and move to attack them?
Been there, done that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Emp. Conralius
07-18-2002, 23:36
You oughta remake that Hastings mod with some of those Feudal Knights.
Hey Choco, I posted this in the hastings thread but I'm not sure you are still reading that. I just got a book on Hastings so if you need/might like any info or pics of the battlefield, let me know.
My tactic was to charge the Army immediately in front with my spearmen,
leave the knights sit back for the moment,
as soon as that army engages the first of my charging spearmen bring my knights in on exposed flank,
the 'white' army wheels to try and flank the spearmen,
break the white army and run for charlemagne
I lose a spearmen complete every now and then because they pursue the 'broken' army and are slow to disengage
Alternately the trees are a nice hidey hole.
Force the moors to come uphill in trees, really makes a mess of their cavalry,
and hold Roland to stop a left flanking move,
Usually around 500 kills, 200 captures and 100 losses
- I changed the triggers, so all enemy armies must be defeated!
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Clan Doragons Medieval Website
Mods, Unit Descriptions and more
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
Emp. Conralius
07-19-2002, 02:48
As soon as the battle starts, I hurls 1 uni of spearman at the Egyptians, ten I take the rest of my army to meet up with Charlemagne.
I race my men through the trees to the open slopes beyond and then form them up with knights on the flanks. When the moors move up the slope, I charge down, hitting their flanks with my knights. I usually get around 700 kills and 200 taken while ending with around 150 or so of my men left. Charlemagne never even lifts a finger http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I decide to change a little the MOD to made it more challenging.
As Barocca Suggested now you must defeat the three enemy armies to win.
I am also thinking on introducing a 4 enemy army to charge from the 4th side :lol:
A fourth enemy unit would have to come down from the forest hill.... Ouch. If it was of any substantial power your only option is to try and punch straight out with a cavalry charge towards their general and having the infantry protect your flanks.
4th army = no more defensive possibilities,
you MUST punch out of the encirclement or die...
but which way to run?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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Clan Doragons Medieval Website
Mods, Unit Descriptions and more
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
Quote Originally posted by barocca:
4th army = no more defensive possibilities,
you MUST punch out of the encirclement or die...
but which way to run?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[/QUOTE]
There must be a loop hole to exploit.
If I were the Count Roland, I'd ditch all my friends (aka, the other 11 peers) and run toward the dear dear Charles, "oh, mama, they hurt my feelings!" Of course, by that time, all those left behind are already dead.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
http://www.grahamday.dial.pipex.com/rose-knight1.gif
I must said that building MODs has become a most educative experience on game mechanics.
What I learnt so far is the the thecnical stuff itself (building the MODs set up) is a joke. I can get the files edited in 20 minutes or less.
The hard part is to get a MOD balanced in such way that it is not too easy/too hard. I can easily spend hours playing and replaying the MODs to check how it runs, making minimum changes to the stats, locs, etc.
As someone else mentioned, the problem with putting a 4th army covering the "free side" is that then you lose a lot of options and the "ways" to win are narrowed dramatically.
But tomorrow I am introducing the 4th army all the same. I just want to see how Almogavars work http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Stay Tuned
Choco, you were mostly right. Didn't use a bait, just simply ran for it!
From starting postion left turn and run up through the trees over down the other side, back uphill to the edge of the map. Then run straight down high up behind Charlemange.
Now this is the real important bit. AS you have flogged marched your troops they are Exhausted so wait and wait until they have 3 bars of energy. The knights recover first and are the troops I needed first anyway.
It take a while for enemy to march over and form up but when they start to approach Charly engaged with all but RoyalKnights.
This does 2 things. One allows my army to recover, and two keeps the enemy very tired after marching the distance and then fighting uphill.
In my battle an archer unit broke through Charly's line so I charged it with one unit of Knights, this is where I lost a couple of knights as I chased that archer unit along the back of Charly's line and met some other enemy troops on the way that were starting to break through.
You have to be careful of the Saracen Infantry as they have good anti-cav bonus.
Cicrled the knights back up behind my own postion for them to rest again. Charly as now charged in with his Knights and starting to get beaten in trees.
As Charly's army is beaten the enemy starts to emerge from the trees and marches on up to my position. By now my troops are well rested and eager to go into battle. Roland's unit starts charging downhill all by himself, impeteous fool! Does he not know to delay his charge so the whole army engages together?
So stopped him in his tracks and ordered the spearment to advance downhill, into the exhausted enemy, and then the knights to charge into the weak flanks.
From there it's just a case of routing each and every enemy unit off the map.
I think the actual combat numbers in calc's would have worked out like each one of my Knights being Kensai status compared to enemy troops, such is the penalty of exhaustion and fighting uphill.
Choco I don't think adding a fourth army would be so bad as to remove options. It will be an interesting challenge of how to escape. I can picture a couple of options already.
As an interesting aside have you tried setting Charly to be an attacker while still allied to you as a defender?
It's something I will try later and see if it works.
It would be good if we could get the AI to come to the rescue!
Tried the setting Charly to Attack and he still sat there on his hill, coward!
Shouldn't really call him that after they way I played and achieved my glorious victory http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Good question to put to CA on wether it's possible to get this sort of thing to work?
Might need to have onf of enemy set to defense or something, but I don't hold much hope. Will carry on experimenting.
Would be great to have a battle where you have to hold out until your allies arrive, make battles just that bit more realistic where having a large army is one thing, but getting it to the battle on time is another!
Stephen Hummell
07-19-2002, 17:54
I won with no men left.
Guys,
I won with all Roland forces Routed,
1 knight and 5 spearmen escaped,
and guess who the knight was - http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
------------------
Clan Doragons Medieval Website
Mods, Unit Descriptions and more
DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
DrNo
About the AI shortcomings: I have tried in several MODs to get the ally AI to be more "cooperative" to no avail.
What I see is that regardless the Setup to "Attack" or "Defense" the Ally AI doesn't move unless the enemy gets close enough to its position. It is like the ally AI had a "fog of war" on.
You can get you butt kicked hard in your corner of the map but Charlomagne is not going to move unless you bring the battle close enough.
BTW: This is the web page I used to extract names and army types for the MOD
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/roland-ext.html
I tried to add Almoghavars but they crash the game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
I made some changes and I created a Harder Version: Roland's Cry. Hopefully this will be harder to win.
Changes:
Roland:
-Spearmen units get +1 honor and +1 armor
Moors:
-One extra army attacking from the 4th side. Now you has Saracen Infantry pouring from the Woods
-I replaced 1 unit of Cavalry with HorseArchers. They are pretty deadly. I wanted to add Almoghavars but they crash the game
I have tried the MOD and seems to be harder but it is still possible to win.
I won at 1st try with only 2 Knights left http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Tip for you blokes on the more difficult one. March your groups of infantry in column formation directly at the fold between where the Saracen in the trees end and where the army in the open starts. Position cavalry on either side of the column moving at a slow pace off behind it. As soon as the enemy begins to notice you I turned my units(back to back) and had them fight off the enemy. Because my cavalry were still aways off behind them the open army maintained a large line but with most of their line facing no opponet while they were there to contain.
Taking intiative I used the knights to charge the ends and push them back. It broke their ends force them to regroup. My infantry was weakened but was still strong enough to fight off any minor skirmishes. Broke contact and high tailed it towards Charlegmane. From there it was standard procedure letting Charlegmane take the first wave of the enemy infantry attack while I charged my cav towards the rear to take out any stragglers and moved my infantry into the woods to flank enemy units.
Incredibly difficult, but still much easier than your Falkirk battle. Aie.
Choco, this modded version was fairly easy.
I simply charged the army in front of me and decimated it. Then moved on to where Charly is waiting.
Used one unit of spearmen to fight in the middle ground and give me the time to get up Charly's hill.
Also wanted to see how many men my spearmen could kill against superior numbers. Managed 127 kills and about 29 captured by the time the unit went down.
Altogether I lost 16 knights and 78 spearmen. Killed 552 and captured a good few(don't remember number).
I think dropping the honour of Roland's units is the way to go so a head on charge to escape would take longer, and allow the other 3 armies to descend on you.
Looking forward to your next mod.
Stephen Hummell
07-22-2002, 22:41
I beat every body, including Charlomenge. Easy if you change the units around.
look what you did, you taught steve to cheat, naughty naughty people
Stephen Hummell
07-23-2002, 08:27
Narf , it's not cheating, it's editing the game to make it more fun. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Also, it gives me somethin' to do, besides play the same battles over and over. Thanks to verysoon and the people that made the mods for me to play. HEHE.
You should try it NARF.
I shall call him, Mini-Me.
Dr.Evil
Stephen Hummell
07-23-2002, 08:30
Narf, are you a fan of Thunder Cats? Just wondering cause of your name.
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