Announcing India: Total War

[King of Atlantis]

INDIA: TOTAL WAR

Welcome,


This is a new project planned for RTW: BI. The eventual goal is to have multiple campaigns, but the first version is to cover the conquest of Chandragupta Maurya.


https://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7408/89copy0he.gif

India: The Mauryan Conquets

This mod will attempt to cover the campaigns of Chandragupa Maurya at his very beggining. He will have very little advantages and it will take skille to conquer India with him. Factions are still being researched. Bi, will work perfectly has you must conquer the "Barbarians" of India... Religion will alo work well as Most of India will be Hindu, though you can convert to Buddism and possible Janism. The units in this mod will be entirely unique as this area has been left alone from modding.

https://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4545/36rp.gif
This is the genral idea for the campaign map. The western expansion is needed as the selucids were a very real threat to the Mauryans....


The Team

King of Atlantis-Team leader, map maker, skinner
Chilly- Co-Leader, Skinner
Ferret-Skinner
Atheist Peace-assistant map maker, text editor
Vandal of Carthage-Historian
Eltrevo-Historian

If you feel you can help this mod, please post why. Our true need right now is modellers though other are welcome..

Mauryan Icon

https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/421/playmayruan6er.jpg
Done by Chilly..

[Atheist_Peace]

This project will be very good, and btw the mod is hosted here: Imperium Modification Guild (http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?act=idx)

And to everyone, i know it seems like KoA is starting a lot of mods, but dont ignore this, it has great potential and it wont fail.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Hey cool KoA, i cant help cos i have Arthurian TW but this sounds original and pretty damn exciting

[King of Atlantis]

thank you, BTW this mod is part of the Imperium Modding Guild. Our Site can be found here..

http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?act=idx


Ooppss, It seem Atheist Beat me to the punch....

[King of Atlantis]

Seleucid Icon

https://img390.imageshack.us/img390/349/symbol0zp.gif

[Alexanderofmacedon]

India: Total War is a good idea. Being half Indian, I look foreward to it! ~:)

[Chilly5]

Cool, interested of joining or helping out?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

What do you want me to do? Could you post links or something?

[Atheist_Peace]

Do you have any modding skills?

[Reverend Joe]

I thought there was already an India mod- did it fail?

[King of Atlantis]

I believe it was just an idea..

[King of Atlantis]

Current map hieghts..

https://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5661/map25py.png

[Reverend Joe]

By hieghts, do you mean highlights or heights? Because all I see is blank land.

[King of Atlantis]

heights, the actual hieghts havent been done yet, but I thought you guys might want to see the shape of the map.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Do you have any modding skills?

Absolutly not. And I don't know much about the history of India either. I could just come aboard because I'm Indian though! ~:)

[King of Atlantis]

No, im sorry, that isnt enough, unless you speak indian, and could find some native info....

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Even to this day there is no "Indian" language. There are like seven different languages. My mom, knows like two or three of them (as well as really good english). The major one she knows is the language spoken in Madras (south east India)

That count? I could get her help...

[King of Atlantis]

If you can tell me an apropriate faction symbol for Magdha then, you can join. Sorry about being hard, but my requirments for joining have been stepped up.

Why? Because as of now, my team is doing in charge of the Indian factions for Megas Alexandros.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

My mom, grandmother and grandfather (all Indian born and raised) all say Magdha is a name of a King. They don't think it's a faction...

If it is, I'm not sure what to tell you. My mom says for some Indian factions in that time period they used the swaztika. The Germans changed it a little and used it as there own in WWII. She says it was an ancient symbol to some Indian factions. You could use that I guess, but for some people who play for gameplay not so much historically accurate, you'd confuse the hell out of them...

Is that good or no?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

My grandmother just called and said "There is now a region called Magdha in India, but it may have been named that after the great king, some time rescent."

Rescent meaning 1000A.D or something like that. Not really rescent, just not in the span of time for RTW...

[Atheist_Peace]

The Magadha empire was definitely a faction

here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magadha

[Alexanderofmacedon]

"Magadha was an ancient kingdom of India, mentioned in both the Ramayana and the Mahabharata."

Just to let you know, both those stories are supposedly very old, and they may not have had much truth to them. No offence to anyone who believes them, but there were lots of mythical creatures in those stories. The main character was blue infact. (Rama).

Me and my Indian family could be wrong though. They've lived in America 20 years now, and it may have slipped there mind.

[Atheist_Peace]

Persia TW includes this faction also though...this does raise doubt for me at least though.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I'm not saying you should doubt it one bit. All I'm giving is my (mostly my families) imput on the subject. It may very well be true.

You should look up the Ramayana and the Mahabharata...

[King of Atlantis]

NO Magadha? That was an ancient region that was the source of many Empires, including the Mauryan Empire. At this time there would have been the Nanda Dynasty that ruled for a short amount of time before the Mauryan Empire. Yes there are few sources on the time, but even greek/roman sources add mythological stuff to their data. It is modern historians job to try to find out what really happend and what was made up. Magadha definatly existed from every resouce i have seen.

As for joining, just post at our forum, link given at top. Just post stuff in the main Indian forum(which actually only has one thread, and if you add good content i will add you to the team.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Yay, I want to be part of the team.

[BDH]

Its not finished yet, it needs to be extended further north and there are some minor errors here and there. I offered to make the elevation for this mod and they accepted, so here it is :bow:
https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/bdhh/india2.jpg

[Atheist_Peace]

Even if its not done, it looks really well done. You really know how to work with the map_heights.

[King of Atlantis]

truly great work..

[Alexios I Comnenos]

Hi All !!!, i'm italian, i can help you as an historian and for the unit profiles, i'm a student of Eastern history & archeology, i wanted to do a mod "Eastern Total War" but i'm not enough skilled on mods, so i join your project if you want.

The Mauryan Simbol was a peacock, but the lions of sarnath have much more impact.

I'm much more interest about the Gupta Empire, i have yet a basic list of units, however here it is an incomplete list of Mauryan Units:

Mauryan Units:

Yavani:

Yavani were the body guards (composed by greek girls) of the Maharajas of the Mauryan Empire and of the Indo-Greeks Kings.
Yavani carried an hoplite-style armour (like males) Javelins or a spear, Hoplon (Hoplite Round Shield) and an iranic sabre.
Maybe some Yavani units carried a bow and the sabre instead of the spear/Javelin-Hoplon style, but i'm not sure about that.

War Elephants:

The Mauryans never had Cataphract Elephants like the Guptas, but war elephants according to the Arthashastra (a good government treatise of the Mauryan Era) were an important part of the army amounting at 9000 units.

Unit Composition: a driver, called mahout or mahaut or mahavat, three or four archers (often 4) and a sarissophoros to push away nearby enemies (for a maximum of 6 men).

Mauryan Cavalry:

Chariot Archers were very much used (in number of 8000 in the ashoka age), but about the cavalry (30000 unit Arth.) i don't know the composition. There are some Greco-Buddhist Art Images of horsemen in the Mauryan Period.

Mauryan Infantry:

The Bulk of a Mauryan Army is composed by very powerfull foot archers.


About the Guptas (it's not complete):

These are exerpts from Wikipedia and various articles of my university books and also my personal additions.

INDIAN EMPIRE OF THE GUPTAS

Military System of the Guptas:

Cavalry:

Cataphract Elephants: a Mahavat (driver), four archers and a sarissophoros, armoured elephant.
Cataphracts: clad in mail or lamellar armour equipped with lance, shield and sword (sabre) or mace, armoured horse.
Cataphract Archers: clad in mail or lamellar armour equipped with bow, shield and sword (sabre) or mace, armoured horse.

notes: little predilection for using Light and Middle Horse Archers, no more use of Chariots.

The Imperial Guptas could not have achieved their successes through force of arms without an efficient martial system. Historically, the best accounts of this comes not from the Hindus themselves but from Chinese and Western observers. However, a contemporary Indian document, regarded as a military classic of the time, the Siva-Dhanur-veda, offers some insight into the military system of the Guptas. Like Indian kings before them, and centuries afterwards, the Guptas would have utilized Cataphract Elephants. These thick hided beasts, supplemented by additional armour and the soldiers that they carried, would have provided a powerful offensive and psychological weapon against an unprepared foe. However, their use carried the grave risk of the elephants panicking and stampeding, which more clever opponents used to their advantage.
The use of chariots had heavily declined by the time of the Guptas, having already proved their uselessness against the Macedonians, Scythians, and other invaders. In response, the Guptas seemed to have utilized Cataphracts clad in mail or lamellar armour and equipped with lances, shields, swords (sabres), maces and bows, who would have used shock action to break the enemy line. It is unclear whether they were used to the extent of elephants.
The Guptas seemed to have shown little predilection for using Light and Middle Horse Archers, despite the fact these warriors were a main component in the ranks of their Scythian, Parthian, and Hepthalite (Huna) enemies. However, the Gupta armies were probably better disciplined. Able commanders like Samudragupta and Chandragupta II would have likely understood the need for combined armed tactics and proper logistical organization. Gupta military success likely stemmed from the concerted use of armoured elephants, armoured cavalry, and foot archers in tandem against both indian kingdoms and foreign armies invading from the Northwest. Guptas also maintained a navy, allowing them to control regional waters.
The collapse of the Gupta Empire in the face of the Huna onslaught was due not directly to the inherent defects of the Gupta army, which after all had initially defeated these barbarians under Skandagupta. More likely, internal dissolution sapped the ability of the Guptas to resist foreign invasion, as was simultenously occurring in Western Europe and China.


Infantry:

Indian Archers (with indian longbow): The Guptas seem to have relied heavily on infantry archers, and the bow was one of the dominant weapons of their army. The indian version of the longbow was composed of metal, or more typically bamboo, and fired a long bamboo cane arrow with a metal head. Iron shafts were used against armoured elephants, and fire arrows were also part of the bowmen's arsenal. Archers were frequently protected by infantry equipped with shields, javelins, spears and longswords (longsabres).

Indian Peltasts: equipped with javelins and shield.

Indian Infantry: equipped with longsword (longsabre) and shield.

Indian Spearmen: equipped with spear and shield.


Cataphract

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The cataphract (Greek: Kataphraktos) was a type of heavy cavalryman used primarily in eastern and southeastern Europe, in Anatolia and Iran from late antiquity up through the High Middle Ages. Nations deploying cataphracts at some time in their history included the Sarmatians, Parthians, Sassanids, Armenians, Seleucids, Pergamenes, Romans, Byzantines, Indians (Guptas and Harshavardana), Chinese and others.

Cataphracts were the heavy assault force of most nations that used them, acting as shock troops supported by light or heavy infantry and foot or mounted archers. Supporting archery was deemed particularly important for the proper deployment of cataphracts. The Parthian army that defeated the Romans at Carrhae in 53 BC operated primarily as a combined arms team of cataphracts and horse archers against the Roman heavy infantry.

A cataphract charge was generally more disciplined and less impetuous than the charges of the knights of Western Europe, and very effective due to the discipline and the large numbers of troops deployed.

Etymology of the Term

The adjective is Greek, with a basic meaning of "mail-clad." The Greek word for mail was cataphractes, which literally means "bandaged-up." The term first appears substantively in Latin, in the writings of Sisennus: ...loricatos, quos cataphractos vocant..., "...the armored, whom they call cataphracts..."

Equipment and Tactics

Equipment and tactics varied, but cataphracts generally wore heavy armor of scale armour, mail armour, lamellar armor, horn armour, or thick quilted cloth, carried a shield, sat on an armoured horse, and charged with lances (kontos) in a tight knee-to-knee formation. Most armies' cataphracts would be equipped with an additional side-arm such as a sword or mace, for use in the melee that followed the charge. Some wore armor that was primarily frontal rather than providing equal protection all around, and sometimes likewise for the horse armor. In some armies cataphracts were not equipped with shields, particularly if they had heavy body armor.

Many cataphract types were equipped with bows in addition to their lances and heavy armor, to allow them to engage the enemy from afar before charging. Cataphract archery was sometimes used tactically in disciplined formations where half the cataphracts stood facing the enemy as an armored fence while the other half looped through the line to shoot and then back behind it to reload, increasing their safety against return fire from the enemy. Cataphracts without bows are sometimes referred to simply as lancers.

Some later cataphract types were also equipped with heavy darts (marzobarbouloi)to be hurled at the enemy lines during a charge, to disorder the defensive formation immediately before the impact of the lances. With or without darts, a cataphract charge would usually be "shot in" by foot or horse archers to either side, or by additional cataphracts who would charge in turn after having shot in the first assault. Some armies formalized this tactic by deploying separate types of cataphract, a very heavily armored bowless lancer for the primary charge and more conventional lance-and-bow cataphracts for supporting units.

Related Types

The Romans used cataphracts only late in their history, and even then primarily in the East. The first unit appeared during the reign of emperor Hadrian (117-138 A.D.). In addition to ordinary cataphract types they sometimes fielded a very heavy type called a clibanarius (pl. clibanarii), named after an iron oven due to their enclosed metal armor. They also formed one exotic experimental unit of scythed chariots with cataphract lancers mounted on the chariot's horses.

Nations in the Middle East occasionally fielded cataphracts mounted on camels rather than on horses, with obvious benefits for use in arid regions, as well as the fact that the smell of the camels, if up wind, was a guaranteed way of panicking enemy cavalry units that they came into contact with. Balanced against this is the relatively greater vulnerability of camel mounted units to caltrops, due to their having soft padded soles to their feet rather than hooves.

Good Bye I hope to be of some help and if you want i'll continue to post for the mod in the future. There's much to say about factions and various regions (Janapadas and Satrapies).

p.s. If someone of you can read or understand italian, you can find my posts about India, Persia and Hellenistic World on Total War Italia and Rome Total War Italia.

p.s.2 About the Map

In my abandoned Eastern TW mod the map was comprehensive of Media (till Araxes river) to Bangladesh (West-East) and from Yaxartes river (Syr-Darja) to Sri Lanka (North-South), i think that a map that embraces all the Indo-Iranian world is the best thing.

[SkyElf]

It could be interesting MOD to see come out! ~:)

[Yoyoma1910]

If you need any help with Indian culture, I can assist in research and knowledge of Indian art from various periods. I don't know how much art history would help you, but it is reflective of peoples, their beliefs, and their culture. Also you could throw in some historic images I suppose.

[Phatboi]

i may also be able to help. my indian heritage gets me tons of history books of india. just pm me if you need to know something or e-mail me if you like.
i will be able to provide info on weapons and maybe pictures too. i cant wait to see the completed thing.

[daniel22]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mongol_Empireaccuratefinal.png

[GMT]

INDIA: TOTAL WAR

Welcome,


This is a new project planned for RTW: BI. The eventual goal is to have multiple campaigns, but the first version is to cover the conquest of Chandragupta Maurya.


Is this another one of your mods that you start but abandon after a while or do you actually plan on completing this one? If so, I'd really love to see an indian mod but I won't get my hopes up..

[Avicenna]

Nobody would say that their mod is that kind of mod. Nobody knows, either. It is all about how much support there is for it and number of people joining and staying.

Will there be a Chinese faction?

[spirit_of_rob]

If this is the mod i believe it is it collapesed some time ago to few team members who could mod i think it was

[Epistolary Richard]

Any team member like this reopened please PM me.