ChivTW PREVIEW: Castles & Sieges

[Lord Adherbal]

No factions and units this time, but one of the things thaty makes our mod more unique: Castle settlements, and siege warfare.

CASTLES & SIEGES

INTRODUCTION

While muslim and russian settlements are representing major cities, the european settlements represent the largest fortification in the province. Starting from small wooden fortifications, they will eventually evolve into castles, fortresses, and virtually inpregnable citadels. The last 2 levels will be walled cities, developed around a fortification protected with it's own walls. However these are not available until the High and Late eras, and therefor they are not featured in this preview.


FORTIFICATIONS

A quick overview of the first 3 levels of fortification:

Motte & Bailey
The first fortified constructions were simple wooden towers, usualy placed on a hill. Such a tower was called a "motte", and often a small village was built around it, including the house of the local landlord.
To offer further protection , a pallisade wall was constructed around this small village, called a "bailey". These primitive castles would often be improved and eventually evolved into magnificent fortifications.
https://img323.imageshack.us/img323/5120/motte3os.jpg (https://imageshack.us)


Donjon
Over time the wooden motte was often replaced by a stone variant, called a "donjon". These were tiny castles on there own with a small food and weapon supply stored inside, allowing them to endure sieges for a couple of weeks. Enough to protect the landlord, his bodyguard and a few lucky peasant families against raiders and bandits.
https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9195/donjon5pk.jpg (https://imageshack.us)


Keep & Castle
The keep is a large stone construction, made out of several towers connected to a solid building. It towers high over the rest of the castle and offers an easily defendable place, allowing a small garrison to withstand attackers for a long time. Around the keep large stone walls and towers are constructed, providing the first line of defence. These walls can be manned with archers and infantry, and require special siege equipment to overcome.
https://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2520/castle8vs.jpg (https://imageshack.us)


SIEGE EQUIPMENT

Catapults
Catapults are stone throwing catapults. They can shoot stones of 20kg about 150 meters far. However they are inaccurate and do almost no damage against stone walls. Therefor their use is mostly psychological, because no one likes to get a big stone thrown at his head. These catapults can also shoot pots of burning liquids, which can do quite some damage - provided they actualy manage to hit something.
https://img372.imageshack.us/img372/1913/mangonel0je.th.jpg (https://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mangonel0je.jpg)

Rams
The weakest point of a castle is it's gate. While thick stone walls are almost indestructable (until the invention of gunpowder) a gate can be cracked open rather easily with the use of a battering ram. It's a dangerous and costly operation, but it is the only way to get inside an enemy castle without trying to scale the walls.
https://img379.imageshack.us/img379/4161/ram6wf.th.jpg (https://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ram6wf.jpg)

Ladders
The most basic form of getting to a higher spot also works for scaling castle walls: ladders. Easiest to construct, but the carriers are exposed to arrow fire.
https://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5800/ladder9wi.th.jpg (https://img34.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ladder9wi.jpg)

Siege Towers
A siege tower is a specialized siege engine, constructed to protect assailants and ladders whilst approaching the defensive walls of a fortification. Siege towers were of unwieldy dimensions and therefore mostly constructed on site of the siege. The tower had a height roughly equal to that of the wall or sometimes higher to allow archers to stand on top of the tower and fire into the fortification. When a siege tower was near a wall, it would drop a gangplank between it and the wall. Troops could then rush onto the walls and into the castle or city.
https://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3485/siegetower1nq.th.jpg (https://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=siegetower1nq.jpg)

Trebuchets & Cannons
Because I expect someone to ask, or be disappointed that they aren't in the mod: trebuchets will be added in the High era release, and multiple sorts of cannons (bombard cannon, orphan gun, ...) in the Late era.


STORMING THE KEEP

1168 AD, the french and english are at war. The english hold an important castle near Paris which allows them to control the region and raid deep into french territory. But the french have managed to muster a large siege force, and plan to retake the castle...

The french bring their siege equipment toward the castle.
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8889/castlesiege16rl.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege16rl.jpg)

Once they get close enough, english archers open fire...
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5953/castlesiege22gr.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege22gr.jpg)

...as do the french catapults
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4774/castlesiege79rj.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege79rj.jpg)

The french take casualties while trying to breach the walls.
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5006/castlesiege43ko.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege43ko.jpg)

But they are determant, and their infantry reaches climbs the walls with siege towers and ladders.
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1194/castlesiege67wy.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege67wy.jpg)

Once a foothold is established, the french try to capture the gatehouse, while english men at arms desperately try to hold them back.
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5454/castlesiege98bi.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege98bi.jpg)

When the gatehouse falls in french hands, the french cavalry finally sees their chance for glory and rushes through the open gate.
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6344/castlesiege101dg.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege101dg.jpg)

The last few english knights, lead by the king himself try to push the french back.
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7342/castlesiege113hl.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege113hl.jpg)

But it is all in vain, they are overran, scattered and destroyed.
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7919/castlesiege121vn.th.jpg (https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castlesiege121vn.jpg)


MEDIEVAL BUILDINGS
The following screenshots show several new medieval themed buildings that can be seen in and around castles.

https://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4931/scene19er.th.jpg (https://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scene19er.jpg)

https://img196.imageshack.us/img196/444/scene22kq.th.jpg (https://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scene22kq.jpg)

https://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3803/castleclose3qb.th.jpg (https://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=castleclose3qb.jpg)


SIGNATURE BANNER
https://img354.imageshack.us/img354/350/chivcastle3lh.jpg


Older Previews
Northern Europe (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=53933)
The Byzantine Empire (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=53563)

[Monkwarrior]

What can I say? :shocked2:
Impressive, astonishing, marvelous, great, ...

I LOVE THOSE CASTLES!!!!! :medievalcheers: :medievalcheers:

[Radier]

Impressive! ~:cheers: Good work...

[The_Doctor]

Amazing. ~:cheers:

Does the keep fire arrows?
Can you put troopes on the walls of the big keep?

[Lord Adherbal]

Does the keep fire arrows?
Can you put troopes on the walls of the big keep?

Maybe if we figure out how physical_info cas files work it could be possible to allow troops to move in/on the keep, but for now that doesnt work. Keep and towers dont fire arrows either, if you want something to shoot at the enemy you'll have to rely on archers :) This gives the AI a better chance cos they don't lose half their army to arrow fire while idling in front of the walls.

[Caius Graccus]

Guys, you know i love you so much !!!


Chivalry is the best mod for RTW ever made !!!


Anyway i ask you if is it possible in some future releases, to have not simple castle, but real western city...

I dream to besiege the medieval Rome or Paris !! ~;)


BYE

[Kor Khan]

As mentioned above, the highest settlement levels will indeed be medieval cities (with a castle in the middle of them). Some cities, like Rome, will start off in this level. But that may not be in the next release.

Muslim and Orthodox cities will be RTW-style settlements even in the lowest levels though.

[Geoffrey S]

Truly stunning; once again you confirm yourselves as one of the premier modteams for any game. It all looks so slick.

[jimmyM]

Very impresive once again, guys - so beautiful I might even suffer pangs of guilt as I storm them... ~;)

[SigniferOne]

Adherbal, very impressive! Some comments: you can make the inner siege area (the keep) defensible if surround it with a second circle of walls that hugs the keep, as if it is part of it. In fact, you can even make it so that the little "entrances" are on the outside, if you don't want there to be actual room inside this second circuit between the walls and the keep. But that solution is really the best one, to surround the keep with walls and just a bit of room inside so the troops can manoeuver, with a gate in front of the keep's gate so the troops can get inside this second circuit, etc, and presto -- defensible keep!

[edyzmedieval]

Excellent work Adherbal.

May I ask, who did the buildings for you?

[Lord Adherbal]

the problem is that the minimum length of walls is quite long: roughly twice the size of the current keep model. So that would be one hell of a big keep... This would be ok for larger sized fortresses but not for the smallest level of castle.
I thought about making the keep part of the terrain (underlay), so you can put troops on top of it. But the problem is then that you can also put cavally on there which will look rather stupid.

However the recent post by Jerome which explained physical_info files also mensioned platforms and entry points. So perhaps we can make it possible to let units enter the keep just like they do with towers. Certainly something to look into in the future.

[Ciaran]

~:eek: Impressive, no better word comes to mind.


trebuchets will be added in the High era release, and multiple sorts of cannons (bombard cannon, orphan gun, ...) in the Late era.

You are able to make working Trebuchets?

[Lord Adherbal]

don't see why not. As long as we can edit siege engine skeletons (which we currently cannot, but Verci is working on that IIRC). Making them immovable should just be a matter of replacing the movement animations with idle animations.

[Ciaran]

Adherbal']As long as we can edit siege engine skeletons (which we currently cannot, but Verci is working on that IIRC)

That was why I was asking, so far, editing any kind of skeleton isn´t possible, or so I´ve read.

[Kor Khan]

I'm pretty sure that it will some day be editable. And that day can take it's time to arrive, for the moment at least: As Adherbal said, trebuchets are high and late era only, so you certainly won't see them in the next release.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Very good indeed. This may sway my descision to not get this mod. (I don't like a mod with guns anywhere in it).

[Divinus Arma]

This is looking pretty good!

I am very fond of simple landscape changes. Putting trees around the castle just looks nice.

Any way to put in a moat?

[GoreBag]

Keep 'em coming, guys.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

A moat would be pretty cool ~:cool:

[Divinus Arma]

Two link pics do not work: The catsle and keep, and the seige tower. But I get the point.

Yay! fun!

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Siege tower doesn't work for me either. You can see them in the French Siege though.

[Lord Adherbal]

works fine for me, it might be a temporary problem

[caesar44]

What can I say? :shocked2:
Impressive, astonishing, marvelous, great, ...

I LOVE THOSE CASTLES!!!!! :medievalcheers: :medievalcheers:


Agreed !!!

[Kor Khan]

There won't be moats in this mod, unless someone finds some miracle way of including them. Any way I could think of (such as making them rivers) wouldn't be good for gameplay.

It's a shame they can't be in Chiv, but you never know about CA's next game, A Medieval II: Total War could have moats in it... (ahhh, *looks dreamy*)

[Ciaran]

As mentioned above, the highest settlement levels will indeed be medieval cities (with a castle in the middle of them)[...]


Doest that mean those constructions are in the middle of a city, like the government buildings in the stock game, or that they represent the whole city?

[Kor Khan]

You'll just have to wait and see... ~D

Seriously though: I don't know either. :bow:

[Kralizec]

The castles look superb ~:eek:

So how does winning an assault on a castle work? Do you now simply have to kill all the defenders, or can you do it by holding the keep for like 3 minutes just like the town square?

Can you make cities that have rivers running through them? That would be awesome, making city assaults far more interesting and tactical.

[Hunter KIng George]

Adherbal, Just incredible! Keep up the good work!

[Lord Adherbal]

So how does winning an assault on a castle work? Do you now simply have to kill all the defenders, or can you do it by holding the keep for like 3 minutes just like the town square?

you take the town square like in RTW. Killing everyone is equally effective tho :P


Can you make cities that have rivers running through them? That would be awesome, making city assaults far more interesting and tactical.

I think that might be possible, but there is a bug in RTW 1.2 that moves up coastal and river terrain (like the square coastlines you can see on battlemaps)

[Ianofsmeg16]

Adherbal, awesome man!, those castles look like some of the best work i've seen!

[Helgi]

Liking the castles and stuff, Looking forward to the SP campaign to come out

[Stormy]

Another excellent preview! ~:cheers:
Can't wait to get this one!

[Ignoramus]

Can you make cities that have rivers running through them? That would be awesome, making city assaults far more interesting and tactical.

That would be amazing with BI, you would be able to have a bridge across it, lightly armoured men could swim across it....................if only the AI was better.................

[Dutch_guy]

good , very good.

The castles look great already, wondering already what a fortress would look like- if you're even thinking of adding those ~;)

:balloon2:

[Kor Khan]

As mentioned before, all the higher setlement levels for catholic factions will be medieval cities with a castle in the middle. So expect something quite impressive.

[EdwardL]

omg guys how long till release? estimate date if possible

[Kor Khan]

Definately after BI. Depending on how quickly we can adapt, it'll be one or more months after the release of the expansion. We don't want to give a more precise date, as we've had bad experiences with those estimates.

[Cesare diBorja]

And the SP campaign is coming....................................................when?

[Lord Adherbal]

with the next release