Idea bank!

[Kagemusha]

This is the thread where you can post all the good and grazy ideas, you guys might have for the mod.:bow:

[antisocialmunky]

Strategic Map:
Premade Siege Maps for each City
Each city will have its own siege map that is scripted to be used. Sieges will be more detailed with this. We will need to keep walls prebuilt and indestructable on the building queue though.

Small Villiages as resources
Small villiages will be present in each province by resources. They give a small population bonus and revenue increase. The amount of small villiages in a provence is an indicator of the fertility of a province.

Commercial Cities
Provinces that have more than one big city will have all the non-governmental(vassal controlled) large cities represented by resource tiles. These give a boost to commerce. And may be used to represent manufactured goods.

Mountain Top Temples
Resource tiles representing thse temples will be put at locations corresponding to historical locations. Aesthetic.

Ports & Mines
Unbuildable. Mines give revenue and Ports allow for instant access to Teppo after Teppo event and increase revenue.

Units:
Uesugi Late Hatamoto
If Uesugi generals wear head wraps, Kenshin's helmet should be worn by Uesugi late Hatamoto.

Guns
Teppo Ashigaru will be instantly avaliable to build at ports after the gun event. 5-10 years after, gun foundaries will be accessable by all. 15 years after, Teppo Samurai will be trainable.

Slingers
Not much info at the moment, research needed.

Rebels:
Kama Yari Ashigaru
Since there's no representation as an regular or levy ashigaru and that the Kama Yari was an fairly common weapon for ashigaru, this is the only way left to implement it. It would carry the curved, almost sickle-shaped, Kama-Yari. It would be good against cavalry and such agaisnt everything else.

Naginata Women
This unit would only appear in cities with 0 movement points over the strategic map. Women were present at sieges, defending their homes from attackers for dishonour and shame awaited those who could not defend themselves in the hands of thier captives. We could implement these ladies in small units and make them pop up only in city battles.

[Kraxis]

The last one is nice... I thought about mentioning them earlier, but considered them to be too problematic. Nice workaround you have found there.

[antisocialmunky]

http://www.baxleystamps.com/litho/ogawa/ogawa_mil_8-1.jpg

[beauchamp]

I agree with the whole Uesugi deal, and i think that each clan should have special hatamoto bodyguards.

[antisocialmunky]

Only the general Models will be totally unique. Late Era Hatamoto guards will have one of two types of armours though depending on the faction. The reason why Kenshin's helmet is brought up is because we're not goign to use it on Kenshin.

[Myrddraal]

Small Villiages as resources
Small villiages will be present in each province by resources. They give a small population bonus and revenue increase. The amount of small villiages in a provence is an indicator of the fertility of a province.

Feel free to use the system I made for upgrading these villages if you want to :bow:

[antisocialmunky]

What I want to try and do is give players a better feel of feudalism. I want to try out some things to enhance that like small cities that you control but not directly. Thanks for the offer. I'm sure we can find a place for it.

[rashidaddinsinan]

If you are going to have so many factions, then you may not want to have each of the historic Japanese provinces represent only one province in the real game... there would be about half the number of rtw vanilla provinces in this game then for an equivalent number of factions.

[Kagemusha]

If you are going to have so many factions, then you may not want to have each of the historic Japanese provinces represent only one province in the real game... there would be about half the number of rtw vanilla provinces in this game then for an equivalent number of factions.

Hello rashidaddinsinan.:bow: If you look at the map we have created.we have already splitted many provinces of the 66 historical provinces in smaller districts.
Here is an map of provices of premodern Japan:

http://samurai-archives.com/map.html

And here is our area map for the Mod:

http://chaosrealms.org/forgottenimmortal/ShogunMap.jpg

[Drunkin General]

Great mod & can't wait for some kinda release

I'm not sure if your team has discussed this but anyway, In STW when you or AI clan took Yamashiro you would get a nice scroll telling you that the Emperor has told you to bow to the inevitable. It never really meant much apart from warning you that the Hojo horde was on its way but nice all the same.
I was thinking that you could use a wonder & event to simulate this. Maybe use one that adds to loyalty across the lands & increases farming output to simulate the pesants been more happy & working more since the Emperor has declared for the holder of the province.
If the mod needs any extra beta testers PM me plz:bow:

[Samurai Fanatic]

How about for a historical battle when the Takeda was attacked by the oda with the use of muskets against their cavalry:charge: , and many of the takeda generals died......i cant remember the name tho:duel: :knight: :knight: :duel: :viking: :viking: :horn: :viking:

[Kagemusha]

Posted by Drunkin General: Great mod & can't wait for some kinda release

I'm not sure if your team has discussed this but anyway, In STW when you or AI clan took Yamashiro you would get a nice scroll telling you that the Emperor has told you to bow to the inevitable. It never really meant much apart from warning you that the Hojo horde was on its way but nice all the same.
I was thinking that you could use a wonder & event to simulate this. Maybe use one that adds to loyalty across the lands & increases farming output to simulate the pesants been more happy & working more since the Emperor has declared for the holder of the province.
If the mod needs any extra beta testers PM me plz


Thanks Drunkin General!:bow:
We have thought about the same thing.
In RTW we have the Wonders like the Pyramids. So we are going to chance those to be usefull for are purposes. So i can promise that capturing Kyoto in the game will give benefits for the player.~;)

And to the Samurai fanatic. I believe you mean the battle of Nagashino between Takeda Katsyori and Oda Nobunaga+ Togukawa Ieasy. It is very intresting battle indeed. But at this moment we are focused on campaign. Maybe we can do Historical battles after the first release, but hey you never know things might chance along the way.~:)

[antisocialmunky]

I wonder if theres anyway we could have multipalyer historic battles.

[Samurai Fanatic]

well....there are multiplayer historical battles on RTW (not bi), infact all of the RTW historical battles are multiplayer. So basicly you can do multiplayer historical battles.

[Dermeister]

Can u guys make a valable the units like the clans put on the current RTW map for us to play with while we wait for the full mod to be finished?

just a random tought :)

[EliteShockTroop]

I know this could be very hard to do (if not impossible), but could you add a motion animation to the Nobori(unit flag, banner attached to back of a samuria) during the battles that are to take place?
- This would add more realism and immersion to the battles that players control. This is my opinion at least. I noticed this feature in Shogun: Warlord Edition and I thought it made the units look more life-like.

I always wanted a remake of the Shogun game and finally people are doing it.
I love and praise this project and hope you guys continue till the end!

Goodluck.

[ByzantineKnight]

Feel free to use the system I made for upgrading these villages if you want to :bow:

I remember reading that a long time ago, could you send me a link to that thread?

[Nakamura Lobato]

Could you make Kensai something that happens rarely? I think that there are those rare moments when the true Kensai appeared, and if it happened in this way, it would make it very special. You shouldn't be able to create Kensai. Now expert swordsman, that's another story altogether. All you would have to do is change the name to something else, and then have a special samurai get the trait or become available as a retainer.

Another idea I have is get rid of battle field ninja. These are very far fetched. The Geisha is just about ludicrous. Alternatively, have shinobi or ninja that open the gate if they infiltrate a town allowing the samurai to come in easier. Can you imagine the horror of seeing you castle door open during a siege? Heehehe

It would be cool if Okinawa and the other Ryukyu Islands were on the map and were places that could be invaded. I know you don't want to create yet another clan, you could just have them labeled as Rebels.

I like you RTW has population values. This may be needlessly complex, but you could have peasant upgrades to Asigaru and then during peacetime return to the fields to increase economics. It would be historically accurate.

What will trade be like in Ran no Jidai? Will you have lacquer goods, tortoise shell hairpins, netuke carved from ivory, silk goods, etc? It would just be window dressing, but would increase economics. The merchants would loan money to the samurai at interest. This would allow samurai to operate in the red for a short while.

I like the retinues in RTW. Attracting artisans to ones court could be a double edged sword. Too many artisans mean an increase in culture and hence attract other samurai. They also could act to increase corruption.

Have you thought about a curious aspect of RTW? There often are "loose ronin" that become available by purchasing their contract. I was thinking that if you don't purchase their contracts, aren't you going to have lots of duels and challenges within a city? You might just buy them up to get them off the streets! It would add a funny and perhaps maddening aspect on Expert level.

Bribing a samurai to join your side I hope lowers their traits or gives them negative ones. Things like greediness....

It would be cool if we could make weak non-performing samurai perform seppuku! Or captured samurai from rival clans could be made to wait to commit seppuku to embarrass them and their clan!

Will the Mongols rear their ugly head?

Nakamura

[Atterdag]

Just wanted to point out that descriptions for ancillaries (and anncillaries in general) are needed.

[deurknop]

costum battles?, new maps for custom battles and new cities,not the roman maps and roman cities,that should be nice

[tofu_san]

Hi,

I only occaisonally check in here just to see how things are going. Not sure how much you are messing with the games engine, but I would suggest the following (and apologies if already suggested):-

1) Improved 'treachery' as this period in Japan's history is notorious for people changing sides at the drop of a hat (even Sekigahara is reported to have had a side change when outcome was imminent). Not sure how easy it would be to make AI controlled Daiymos gang up on biggest threat. I find in Rome there is a little too much ganging up on human player. For example if I play Germans in RTW, the Britons and Gauls throw all they have at me, but this actually makes it too easy as if I defend sensibly, they are pretty much exhausted. Roman units can mop them up easy.

2) Might be interesting to 'tweak' unit staus in RTW from impetuous, steady, shaken, routing etc to a more honour based system i.e. a unit that makes another unit rout receives an honour bonus, unit that kills enemy commander receives even higher honour bonus. Been so long since I've played original Shogun this might even be in there. I know in original Shogun you only got Sword dojo after a single solider killed x amount of enemy (can some-one confirm). I think honour, it it was in original Shogun, was more like unit experience though? Idea of taking heads is also a nice and possibly historically accurate one. I don't know if anyone has read Stephen Turbull? In one of his books I found the following under Samurai expolits in battle, have listed most useful:-

Ichiban kubi - taken 1st head taken
Ichiban nori - 1st over wall/inside enemy fort
Tachi uchi no komyo - Kill with a sword
Shigariyari no komyo - perform rearguard action when allies retreating

I think some of these might be possible as bonuses for troops.

3) Rome/BI use of objects such as legions eagle or (in BI, I think) parts of the original Cross. I could see same thing in this mod with certain katana/objects being carried by units. Am I right in saying that Muramasa blades were considered evil/bad omen by Tokugawa clan? If so, then possession of such an artifact could give a bonus when fighting that clan. I am sure there are other examples, whether fictional/fantasy/disputed etc.

That's my brain storming over with for today!!

[thebigbossnahhh]

Well I've posted the idea in a previous thread on the TWC but here it is again on the Org.

Locusts ravage crops in a region and increase the changes of Unrest, Plague etc.

Increased Earthquake Activity Japan's known for it's many Earthquakes and I think they should have some RIGHT NASTY ones. Lots of damage and lots of dead Civilians.

Also.. Playing Shogun you get the Shogunate in Kyoto putting his backing behind a specific Clan.
Maybe the SPQR Faction of Rome Vanilla can be used in that way to mass support a Clan and change the balance of Power?
Plus the SPQR can even order a Roman Leader to commit Suicide or face receiving the curse of the Gods and expulsion from Roman Citizenship, could this be used in term of Seppuko for dishonoured Daimyo's? Shogunate Willy Waving? :clown:

Anyway, really looking forward at seeing those Japanese Villages and buildings. :2thumbsup:

[Taneda Santôka]

All 20 faction slots are used and Kyôtô is owned by Hosokawa by the game's start...... About its bonus'...... hehe..... hihi...... huhu.......

[Paradox]

Does that mean Hosokawa = SPQR?

[thebigbossnahhh]

All 20 faction slots are used and Kyôtô is owned by Hosokawa by the game's start...... About its bonus'...... hehe..... hihi...... huhu.......


Ahhh nutsm what are the chances of that huh!? lol
Exactly 20 Factions that just happens to be the Faction Limit of the Game.:wall:

[antisocialmunky]

Heheheh... so did you guys implement what I think you guys implemented?

:-D

I thought you guys went with BI and tossed that idea out.

[Taneda Santôka]

You thought right, no SPQR, but Kyôtô will share some good boni! ;)

[antisocialmunky]

It would have been neat to have the initial alliance though. Oh well, they'll probably start allied.

[Taneda Santôka]

The strat map I posted on the map thread shoes some starting alliances. Check it out! :)

[HKagemusha]

Kama Yari Ashigaru
Since there's no representation as an regular or levy ashigaru and that the Kama Yari was an fairly common weapon for ashigaru, this is the only way left to implement it. It would carry the curved, almost sickle-shaped, Kama-Yari. It would be good against cavalry and such agaisnt everything else.


I appologize for bringing up such an old discussion, especially on my very first post >.<; But I was reading through the threads and saw this mentioned several times and couldn't help but respond.

The kama was a popular weapon in the sengoku period but there are a lot of misconceptions about it, and about anti-cavalry fighting in general. First, the kama was popular in certain regions during certain periods, but it was still outnumbered by other, older designs that were losing popularity but not yet replaced. These designs were largely chinese, korean, or even western influenced designs featuring exaggerated features such as unbalanced blades, curving and hooked spear points, unusually long or short staffs, and straight spears. Samurai who used weaponry passed down the generations, and ashigaru who were stationed in provinces that did not benefit from famous foundries often used these older designs over the kama spears.

However the bigger misconception is in the usefulness of the kama. Thought it was romanticized by certain famous fights and warriors, the kama actually was NOT an effective way to deal with cavalry unless wielded by an exceptionally skilled warrior. Archeological missions during the last century discredited this idea when they dug up a shocking number of samurai corpses with the left sides of their skulls indented. Upon further research, it turns out that the most common and effective way to deal with enemy cavalry did not use the spear point or cross blades at all, but rather utilized the blunt back end of the spear.

Unlike western armies, samurai weren't very keen on planting their spears in the ground in face of an enemy charge. Since most yari footsoldiers were (relatively) lightly armored and very few Japanese warriors used shields, it makes sense that they would not want to give up their mobility or lose their primary method of defending themselves from projectiles/melee attack. Thus, Japanese warriors developed a rather unique way of dealing with cavalry. The ends of a typical sengoku era Japanese spear (kama or not) were usually wrapped in iron and later steel. When the enemy cavalry charged, the front lines would hold their ground and break up the enemy formation with their spears. Then it was the back ranks duty to dismount and defeat the enemy. Their technique? Hurl the back end of the spear at the enemies head. The vast majority of horse riding samurai were dismounted by crushing blows to the left side of their head, then finished with the spear point while laying dazed upon the ground. Though this sounds rather unbelievable, the evidence speaks for itself and many of the remaining Japanese martial art masters have concurred that this is most likely what happened.

Long-winded and mostly useless information aside... greetings to everyone XD Know that I joined the forums SOLELY out of interest for this mod. It's exactly what I've dreamed of since the first day I bought rome: total war and I only regret I haven't been around to help you guys out >.<; And I do have one suggestion to make that may or may not have been mentioned (I still have a number of threads to read through and it's rather late here already >.<;). Will the Hachisuka band make an appearance in this mod? The Hachisuka were arguably the most famous unit active in the oda armies throughout the warring states era. Originally nothing but 30 illiterate and poorly equipped levy warriors, the Hachisuka proved themselves time and time again both in heated battles and outside of the battlefield in projects such as the Sunomata castle. Besides, it was the unit that Hashiba Hideyoshi originated from ^^

[HKagemusha]

Ack sorry for teh double post. I haven't found the edit button yet (if there is one), but saw a few more things to comment on


Another idea I have is get rid of battle field ninja. These are very far fetched.

No offense, but this couldn't be further from the truth. As someone who has trained 12 years in togakure ryu ninjutsu and has studied the history of the ninja clans (including some which is kept away from outsiders), I can confidently tell you that this is a HUGE misconception. In fact, ninja should not be used to assassinate opponents in the game as that is a massive massive misconception that has been supported by movies, television, stories, and legends for nearly two centuries.

The truth is, ninja were never, not ever in any Japanese era, assassins. Yes they were highly trained and loyal bodyguards, expert spies and advisors, and pioneers of infiltration and stealth techniques. However, their role was a defensive one, not murder or assassination. There were plenty of hired killers around who would assassinate opponents, but they had nothing to do with the ninja clans. The misconception came about when the Meiji Restoration over threw the caste system and exposed the ninja clans for the first time in history. While the ninja weren't keen on sharing their secret histories with the Meiji, the Meiji were overjoyed by the discovery. The Meiji, primarily composed of peasants and aristocrats who wished to overthrow the samurai ruling class, felt that they held a great deal in common with the ninja clans whom were also from the peasant class and rejected bushido, the codes which the samurai swore by. Thus, the ninja were exalted into the status of heroes and legends. Problem was, it wasn't just the ninja who benefitted from this, but every 12th-18th century peasant warrior who snuck around in dark clothes. The majority of these were nothing but bandits, thieves, rapists, murderers and hired killers. Of course, the ninja themselves didn't mind this misconception, since it only enhanced their fearsome reputation and made it even easier to go about their work undisturbed.

By contrast, ninja absolutely do belong on the battlefield. The ninja clans first formed in iga as a peasant alternative to samurai armies. While a ninja strives never to directly confront an enemy... ambushes, tactical feints, infiltration, deception, and other scare tactics were widely used in many battlefields. Even the mighty Oda clan experienced this first hand when Nobunaga's son mad an ill-informed attempt to invade Iga and was horribly shamed and routed. Nobunaga was absolutely furious with his son and his son's advisor for launching a war with the cunning clans of iga.


I like you RTW has population values. This may be needlessly complex, but you could have peasant upgrades to Asigaru and then during peacetime return to the fields to increase economics. It would be historically accurate.

Sorry, I mean you no insult but this is actually not correct either. There is a difference between ashigaru and militia levies. ashigaru were a professional force of peasant warriors, much like medieval men at arms. While in desperate times ashigaru ranks were temporarily bolster by untrained militias, there were always some ashigaru who travelled with the army at all times


Am I right in saying that Muramasa blades were considered evil/bad omen by Tokugawa clan?

Yes you are correct. I don't remember the exact details, Ieyasu's family (known then as the Matsudaira clan) had the ironic fate of dying one after another by the hands of muramasa blades. If I remember correctly, everyone up until Ieyasu himself died in such a manner, including his grandfather, father, older and younger brothers.

On an unrelated note, Nobunaga had an interesting tie to the month of June in much the same way. He was born in June, he won his first major battle (against Imagawa Yoshimoto) along with many other significant battles in June, and he died in June

[HKagemusha]

Ah, I appologize once again for back to back posting, just wanted to make it clear. I'm not knocking the idea of the kama spear (or anyone else's ideas) I just like to bring up various historical points. Obviously, the kama was effective. However, I would say it's real effectiveness was against heavily armored footsoldiers and in castle sieges.

As someone who has personally spent between 2-3 years trying to learn the weapon, I can safely say it was one of the most unwieldy and difficult to learn weapons. But then again, learning to properly use a naginata takes ten years of training, even for highly skilled individuals.

A more practical and easier to construct, wield, and master weapon is the kusari-gama, or sickle and chain weapon. Wielded by ninja and other warriors who couldn't afford high quality spears and weapons, the kusari-gama was rather effective at dealing with cavalry and heavily armored samurai alike... if you had the space and time to properly employ it. Still it was hard to beat in one on one battles, and the fact that it could easily be concealed made it all the more dangerous.

Okay I promise I will stop bringing up useless tidbits of history XD

[Taneda Santôka]

Don't mistake battlefield combat and one-on-one combat. I can hardly imagine a unit handling manriki-gusaris and the like....


And Ashigarus were conscripted peasants.
Period.
They became more professionalised with time and the building up of the conflict during the Sengoku Jidai, but basicaly, an Ashigaru is a conscripted foot soldier.

[HKagemusha]

I'm not entirely certain if and how we are disagreeing. The essence of what I said was that there is a difference between ashigaru and militia, which is undoubtedly true. I may have misused the term professional, but that wasn't really the point.

Regardless, it was mostly mindless babble for those interested in such things. Nothing a member of the team needs to concern themselves with ^^