View Full Version : What's your favorite STW MP Terrain?
Just A Girl
12-15-2005, 00:07
Like the title says...
Whats your fave stw terrain?
reasons would be nice too :)
Personaly I like Totomi the best
Its prety flat but has mounds and stuff that Work well for both attacker and defender.
Its open enough to allow flanking and is a good terrain for cav,
In fog this terrain is great for sneak attacks with cav when your defending.
You can chose to face it out and go head to head with muskets Or try to take the high ground When your attacking, I love rolling landscapes like this.
I also Like Yamato " i think its called that"
It has a lot of trees and is a nother rolling landscape.
I like yamato as it forces me to re think my usual army selection.
So what's your Fave STW terrain for MP games
And if you can think of a reason... Why?
( Il probably use the data compiled for something If There are Many replies... "Although i dont think there will be")
Togakure
12-15-2005, 00:46
I haven't played in quite a while, but these come to mind off the top of my head:
- Totomi for as close to a "fair" map as possible without resorting to the Ironing Board. The defender has an advantage, but skilled attackers can often win.
- Azukizaka (Tokugawa) for a map that presents interesting challenges (hills and woods) for both attacker and defender, which is still relatively fair.
- Yamato for a change of pace from the typical battle and unit selection (lots of small hills and wood patches; some bigger ones too). It's especially fun if the defender doesn't camp. One of the only maps where I've put Battlefield Ninja to good use in MP (kensais and shock troops do well on this one too, because of all the cover). Not the best map for muskies and cavalry, which tend to dominate typical maps.
- Buzen for skilled players attacking not-as-skilled players. Defenders have a nice plateau with a wooded area on it which is not easy to attack effectively.
- 4th Kawanakajima for 2v2s, with the more skilled team attacking, as the defenders have a small but defensible hill. Lots of gullies, no woods.
- Aki for 2v2s with the more skilled team attacking. Hills and woods.
Mappack:
- OB Horselands - a big map with diverse but not too extreme features. Nice for multis, particularly with lots of cav.
- OB River Crossing - Woods, hills, and a river that your troops can ford! Though I can't remember how "fair" it is, I've always enjoyed playing on it because I love watching the armies marching through and clashing in the river.
Sasaki Kojiro
12-15-2005, 00:48
Azukizaka, Nagashima, 4th Kawanakajima, Totomi
Can't pick one.
Trajanus
12-15-2005, 11:58
I like 4th Kawanakajima, Totomi, and Izumo.
Izumo is a great noobie map for defending. You start off on a huge slope and can just wait for the vet attacker to come get you.
I especially like 4th Kawanakajima, Yamato and Azukizaka.
- OB River Crossing - Woods, hills, and a river that your troops can ford! Though I can't remember how "fair" it is, I've always enjoyed playing on it because I love watching the armies marching through and clashing in the river.
hey, that sounds way cool!! I lately downloaded the mappack so I'll check it out on custom battles. ~:cool:
AggonyDuck
12-19-2005, 00:24
Harima and Sanuki are two good, but really underappreciated maps. :san_wink:
Harima and Sanuki are two good, but really underappreciated maps. :san_wink:
never played them in mp indeed... hmmm. Will try them out soon!:san_cool:
Tokugawa_ieyasu
02-26-2006, 21:53
Mino is the best- its montainous so good
fun to defend but also fun to attack as
it is a gorge -great for ambushing
Stoicblitzer
02-28-2006, 00:07
i like fairness. ironingboard 4 l1f3. :P
Just A Girl
02-28-2006, 00:19
I like tactical terrain usage. provided you dont haft to scale Everest to get to your opponent, :).
So i really dont like IB that much at all.
But do like totomi. LOTS. (i usualy loose there but thats not the point :P)
but i dont like 4th k so much...
as it dosent really have all that many advantagous terrain features for the attacker to utilize...
unlike totomi. which allowes or i should even say Encourages. flanking manoovers and the search of height advantage, And also gives the attacker multiple choices of how to attempt an attack.
IB and 4th K seem to force you in to a head on attack.
Ise.
Totomi has some great memories though.
Muneyoshi
03-01-2006, 09:53
Ise.
Totomi has some great memories though.
Hmm, yeah I'm gonna agree on that one.
Just A Girl
03-01-2006, 10:20
Ok great.
I think theres enough replys now to compile a list so i can make a poll.
(i probably should just count how many times each terrain was mentioned.)
But hey.
Im lazy
Boromir Of Gondor
03-02-2006, 14:07
Ise.
Totomi has some great memories though.
It does indeed.
First visit to this forum for two years , blimey!
Didn't you used to be in the 'Kenchi' Clan, Rath.
It does indeed.
First visit to this forum for two years , blimey!
Didn't you used to be in the 'Kenchi' Clan, Rath.
You, me, or both ? :)
Yeah i was for a while but that ended a good bit before Rome came out and i haven't even bought that (though i managed to play a game at Satake's place). Almost forgot this place existed :embarassed:
Hope you're doing well mate ?
Hello rath and boromir of gondor ~:wave:
Nice to see you visit... boromir, I assume you must be 1Dread1Boromir, the last daimyo of the Dreadmasters clan? I tried to contact you hoping you'd be intrested in some stw mp games... but I guess you don't use the old email account which is on the clans website anymore..:embarassed:
always nice to see some more vets around ~:)
Boromir Of Gondor
03-09-2006, 14:26
Hello rath and boromir of gondor ~:wave:
Nice to see you visit... boromir, I assume you must be 1Dread1Boromir, the last daimyo of the Dreadmasters clan? I tried to contact you hoping you'd be intrested in some stw mp games... but I guess you don't use the old email account which is on the clans website anymore..:embarassed:
always nice to see some more vets around ~:)
Hi Drisos, forgive my aged memory but I don't remember you:embarassed:
I am indeed (or was) 1Dread1Boromir of the Dreadmaster Clan. Happy Days battling alongside Lahll, Star, Ice et al.....
I haven't played the game for over 2 years, but got a tingle of it the other day, hence the visit to the Org.
Many still play there.....?
Might have to load the old beauty onto the laptop and fire up, now with broadband etc. although I wouldn't quite have the amount of time I used to have!!
I think after time has mellowed me I could even manage a polite word for old Mr. Khan and 'teh Ger' lol.
Anyway to keep on topic, Totomi holds many good memories for me aswell. I will always remember the first ever online game of any sort was playing there. The buzz was awesome. Especially the first win!
And the first major 2v2 tourney that I signed up last minute for with Mizu Yuuki We ended up staying up all night and even won it.
Ooops, nostalgia over-load.
Boro...
Trajanus
03-10-2006, 08:04
haha, Rath you old dog you made it back here. And Boromir, I doubt you remember me (I used a different name back then) but its good to see you back.
Hi Drisos, forgive my aged memory but I don't remember you:embarassed:
Lol ~:) You are not supposed to remember me ~:) hehe I joined the community after you left. ~;) I just like digging around in old stuff... the community has always fascinated me... so many friendschips, memories, places, clans etc
I haven't played the game for over 2 years, but got a tingle of it the other day, hence the visit to the Org.
Many still play there.....?
Might have to load the old beauty onto the laptop and fire up, now with broadband etc. although I wouldn't quite have the amount of time I used to have!!
Perhaps you might indeed have to do that. ~:) hehe, you suggested it before I could ~;p
I remember when Shin-GaiJin came back... I had heard and read of him as well and was very excited. He's one of the vets playing now ~:) I think it's hard not to play shogun, when you've got such memories of it.. well back to topic:
I you really want to play.. >>>
Edit your Internet.cfg file (located in main folder, first install we and patch to 1.02 from www.totalwar.com) into:
ChatserverIPAddress = ShogunTW.no-ip.info
ChatserverPort = 8793
NewsserverIPAddress = daphne.eagames.co.uk
NewsserverPort = 8797
ShogunTotalWarWebsite = www.totalwar.com
Greetings,
Drisos
Boromir Of Gondor
03-11-2006, 04:24
Lol ~:) You are not supposed to remember me ~:) hehe I joined the community after you left. ~;) I just like digging around in old stuff... the community has always fascinated me... so many friendschips, memories, places, clans etc
Perhaps you might indeed have to do that. ~:) hehe, you suggested it before I could ~;p
I remember when Shin-GaiJin came back... I had heard and read of him as well and was very excited. He's one of the vets playing now ~:) I think it's hard not to play shogun, when you've got such memories of it.. well back to topic:
I you really want to play.. >>>
Edit your Internet.cfg file (located in main folder, first install we and patch to 1.02 from www.totalwar.com) into:
ChatserverIPAddress = ShogunTW.no-ip.info
ChatserverPort = 8793
NewsserverIPAddress = daphne.eagames.co.uk
NewsserverPort = 8797
ShogunTotalWarWebsite = www.totalwar.com
Greetings,
Drisos
Thanks Drisos,
Just buying a new WE, looked through my old stuff and only have the expansion mongol invasion which is no good.
Mind you, £2.50 for a brand new WE is a totla bargain.
Once I have that I will sort out the rest....
Boro...
Just A Girl
03-11-2006, 08:27
cant you use MI to play vs WE ?
I thought you could..
I thought so too... but not sure. I never had MI.
Trajanus
03-12-2006, 05:52
Yeah but I think Boro means he hasn't got the original STW, only MI which cant be installed on its own.
Boromir Of Gondor
03-14-2006, 12:30
Yeah but I think Boro means he hasn't got the original STW, only MI which cant be installed on its own.
That is exactly what I mean Trajanus.
and... sorry Rath, I seem to have omitted to answer your last question - and that is yes, I am doing well mate and I hope you are too.
On the verge of emigrating to the republic of Bulgaria, any Shogun players there?
Have ordered the game, should be here tomorrow, but I'm sure it will be a while before I actually get to play MP
Tomisama
03-14-2006, 13:31
In order to connect to Shambles server, your "Internet" CFG must read:
ChatserverIPAddress = ShogunTW.no-ip.info
ChatserverPort = 8793
NewsserverIPAddress = daphne.eagames.co.uk
NewsserverPort = 8797
ShogunTotalWarWebsite = http://dflw.2ya.com/
:bow:
Boromir Of Gondor
03-17-2006, 19:58
Hi,
I think I have done all suggested, and I get into the old foyer and I'm the only one there.
Should I be somewhere else or is the Old Foyer the right one?
Boro...
Well sadly it still happens that the foyer is empty... but I will be working on that as soon as I solve my own logging in problems. ~;)
there's some sticky threads about arranging games in here.... but it's quite simple mostly... GMT evenings in the weekend most people are on.
Trajanus
03-19-2006, 07:51
glad to have you back "playing" Boro. Hopefully you can get some games soon.
There is SOS today.
What are the best among the editted maps? I'll download the most popular ones.
Shin-GaiJin
03-19-2006, 19:04
Hi Cha, Ive downloaded your new map and look forward to trying it out. I made a map quite some time ago,its in the last map pack in fact.
YG_Yagyu Homelands is the name, I put lots of work into making it as fair as possible and followed all the guidelines that Tosa and the rest of the talented modders and map makers gave:bow: and it turned out pretty good.Paolino made some good ones too which are also in the map pack, as you will by now know its quite a task putting a good custom map together but very rewarding indeed!
ShinGaiJin
Trajanus
03-20-2006, 08:01
I think the suggested mappack is the latest one. (can't remember the name).
Im Back! Good to see everyone still around and some new faces i will be returning to shogun within the week got yet another new computer and decided to begin playing again ... Back to the topic at hand i think totomi due to its many strategic advantages and equalizers.
Until Next Time :bow:
Shaka_Khan
03-20-2006, 11:20
The latest map pack has maps that look like the Grand Canyon, and a map with flooded craters. There's even a Teletubbieland. :laugh4:
Hi Cha, Ive downloaded your new map and look forward to trying it out. I made a map quite some time ago,its in the last map pack in fact.
YG_Yagyu Homelands is the name, I put lots of work into making it as fair as possible and followed all the guidelines that Tosa and the rest of the talented modders and map makers gave:bow: and it turned out pretty good.Paolino made some good ones too which are also in the map pack, as you will by now know its quite a task putting a good custom map together but very rewarding indeed!
ShinGaiJin
We should include our maps to the tournament. They're perfect for a multiplayer game.
The latest map pack has maps that look like the Grand Canyon, and a map with flooded craters. There's even a Teletubbieland. :laugh4:
You're right. The people who made those are creative. :laugh4:
-One map had a river that isolated one player to the rest of the team. The opponents could gang up on that isolated player. The same went for the opposing team.
-One map had a huge mountain to climb up. Once you get up there, you see your opponent hundreds of meters below you, unless your opponent gets up before you do.
-A map with a volcano had a peculiar looking mountain that looked like a woman.
-I noticed after I created my map that I could cross a lake but not a river or a sea. I'm not sure if that's the reason that I could cross. Anyway, there's this other map created by someone that has a lake that looks like a river. People would think they would have to defend only at a bridge, and deploy a lot of missile units.
Hey there Hoh Mystic!! Good to see you back ~:)
Tomisama
03-21-2006, 13:40
Want a whole new set of maps?
In our current Shogun Contest, we are using some of the maps from game’s original map set, but with the Attacker and Defender roles reversed.
Because the majority of these maps had advantages for Defenders in the South (bottom of the Radar map), they were not used to their full extent. But having the Attackers come from the Southern deployment changes everything.
Check it out :wink:
Maps used so far with attack from the South redirections:
Yamato and Tajima
Trajanus
03-22-2006, 08:15
Sounds like a damn good idea Tomi. Perhaps you could put together a little zip for us? ~:)
Tomisama
03-22-2006, 14:01
I didn’t change the maps (which everyone already has), just the Rules for the Contest. Making the Defenders the mandatory Attackers insures that they don’t set up camp in the Southern highlands that are present on many of the original game maps.
Imagine Tajima as it is normally played, with the Attackers in the North, Defenders on the highlands in the South.
http://www.clanwarscomp.org/hunter/tajima.jpg
Now consider the difference if attack has to come from the armies in the South, to the lowlands in the North.
It's a whole different battle.
Hey Drisos! Good to see you friend ~:)
Trajanus
03-23-2006, 07:52
Ah I see, so no modding. Makes things easier incase of bugs! Good thinking.
My favorite map is Matsu, i think that is the name sorry I dont know the exact name. It is the Usegi clan's capital. It has an awesome hill that your archers can just tear the enemies to peices. It is great for building up unit experience in campaign. I held off about 15 attacks on it. I barely lost anybody.
Trajanus
03-30-2006, 06:38
Mutsu, and yeah it is a good map for defending in SP. A bit unfair if you camp in MP but still.
Togakure
03-30-2006, 14:09
Speaking of nice camping sites, Aki comes to mind. Aki isn't the fairest map in the world, but players still seem to like it. I think it's particularly useful in a 2v2, when you have a couple of less-experienced players wanting to defend against more advanced players. Though defenders can (*yawn*) camp on the hills in back, Aki is a good map for "attacking" as the defender.
I remember a game where Yuuki-san and I "defended" Aki by setting up close to the front and adopting an attack attitude. Yuuki advanced to, held, and pressed from the center plain while I swept around quickly over the hills on the defender left with a lot of cav. Yuuki's army and my infantry and ranged units acted as a pivot point by moving into and then holding the large copse of trees at the defender left center. Our starting position, rapid and coordinated movement forward, and ceaseless pressure threw the attackers off balance and we won decisively after a fierce, fun battle.
Playing with players who have a fresh attitude/approach to maps can make a big difference in the quality of the battles.
I remember a game where Yuuki-san and I "defended" Aki by setting up close to the front and adopting an attack attitude. Yuuki advanced to, held, and pressed from the center plain while I swept around quickly over the hills on the defender left with a lot of cav. Yuuki's army and my infantry and ranged units acted as a pivot point by moving into and then holding the large copse of trees at the defender left center. Our starting position, rapid and coordinated movement forward, and ceaseless pressure threw the attackers off balance and we won decisively after a fierce, fun battle.
I'm always looking to take the initiative if possible. It comes from many years of playing chess. If an attacker expects you to defend, you can get a short term advantage of surprise if you attack. There is the Sun Tzu principle of "know your enemy" at work here.
Some players were of the opinion that setting up to the front was an exploit because real armies wouldn't be that close when the battle started. The majority of players thought it was ok, and I saw a lot of these quick attack strategies used. I don't remember that particular battle, but, if I'm reading you right Toga, you started out on my left and swung your cav around to my right. That was a risky plan because the center has to hold longer, but I agree it's fun if the gameplay allows you to try stuff like that with some chance of success.
As I recall, Totomi, Aki and Tami Kochi (made by TosaInu) were the most popular maps at first. The original map called Tosa and many other hilly maps, such as Yamaga, were used in big team games by clans who knew how to attack. Later Obake made a big map for STW/MI called Rivercrossing that I really liked and his Horselands was very popular. It's unfortunate that STW/MI v1.02 made it more difficult to attack hilly maps, and Ironing Board became the most popular map.
Playing with players who have a fresh attitude/approach to maps can make a big difference in the quality of the battles.
And this brings me to my favorite issue: "balance". Imbalance limits your strategic and tactical choices. The greater the imbalance the more limited the choice. I'll give an example of temporal imbalance that limits tactical choices.
In original STW, two YS (2 combat points each with no upgrades each cost 200 koku) can defeat one WM (7 combat points with no upgrades cost 500 koku). They can't win by going straight at the WM, but they can win if one YS in hold formation engages the WM while the other YS flanks and attacks the WM from behind. In an STW v1.12 multiplayer test, the two YS starting out side by side beat the WM in about 20 seconds. The blocking YS had 38 men left, and the flanking YS had 49 men left. The WM routed at 24 men. The tactic depends upon the blocking YS being able to hold long enough for the flanking YS to engage the WM from behind. An unupgraded YS with 38 men left is very close to routing. Once it drops below 30 men it will be hit with a -8 morale penalty in addition to the morale penalty it's suffering for the ratio of casualties in each combat cycle.
I don't remember the results for this same test in STW/MI v1.02, but I know infantry movement speed was lowered by about 15%. If the blocking YS routs before the flanking YS defeats the WM, this hammer and anvil tactic no longer works. It would be a lost tactic for that particular unit combination. I know that, in general, hammer and anvil tactics with infantry do not work as well in STW/MI v1.02 as they did in STW v1.12. It still works with cavalry because the cavalry wasn't slowed down.
Shaka_Khan
03-30-2006, 18:03
... It's unfortunate that STW/MI v1.02 made it more difficult to attack hilly maps, and Ironing Board became the most popular map.
And this brings me to my favorite issue: "balance". Imbalance limits your strategic and tactical choices. The greater the imbalance the more limited the choice...
...I don't remember the results for this same test in STW/MI v1.02, but I know infantry movement speed was lowered by about 15%. If the blocking YS routs before the flanking YS defeats the WM, this hammer and anvil tactic no longer works. It would be a lost tactic for that particular unit combination. I know that, in general, hammer and anvil tactics with infantry do not work as well in STW/MI v1.02 as they did in STW v1.12. It still works with cavalry because the cavalry wasn't slowed down.
It's nearly impossible to attack up the hill if we can't flank. There would be no point in attacking. I managed to lure some people away from the hill, but this rarely works.
It's nearly impossible to attack up the hill if we can't flank. There would be no point in attacking. I managed to lure some people away from the hill, but this rarely works.
The attacker could win on Aki in 1v1 in STW v1.12, and the defender didn't have to be a beginner for that to happen. Remember that guns didn't fire in the rain. Attackers would usually take archers instead of guns because archers can shoot up whereas guns cannot. If it didn't rain, archers had a good chance of significantly weakening the guns before the assault, and, if it did rain, archers could shoot the defender's melee troops virtually forcing him to come down off the hill unless the hill was tree covered which it is not on Aki. If the defender took archers, the attacker could effectively neutralize them as well with his own archers. Granted that, if the two players were of equal skill, the defender would win, but the attacker didn't have to be very much better than the defender to win.
Yes it was a mistake that muskets didn't fire in rain, but it actually helped the gameplay because it made it very risky to take a lot of muskets. Except for Krast, I never saw players using more than 4 muskets. This was just arrived at through the experience gained by playing. Many players didn't use any guns at all. You had to be really good with them to make them worthwhile. I don't think many people who didn't play STW v1.12 realize how interesting it was since there were no unit limits and you saw various kinds of unbalanced armies all of which had counterarmies. The most difficult thing to handle was the monk rush with 16 monks and I did see quite a bit of that, but you could stop it if you were good. I clearly remember a 3v3 where Takshida and I stopped an attack by 32 monks and no-dachis, and we had balanced armies. The two guys with the 32 sword units were experts using that kind of army, so it wasn't a case of vets beating beginners and the terrain was flat. We didn't have any guns. We had some archers which were actually better against monks than were guns. It was a 3v3, and the two 3rd guys fought alone off in another part of the map and neutralized each other.
Muneyoshi
07-06-2006, 13:19
Hi Cha, Ive downloaded your new map and look forward to trying it out. I made a map quite some time ago,its in the last map pack in fact.
YG_Yagyu Homelands is the name, I put lots of work into making it as fair as possible and followed all the guidelines that Tosa and the rest of the talented modders and map makers gave:bow: and it turned out pretty good.Paolino made some good ones too which are also in the map pack, as you will by now know its quite a task putting a good custom map together but very rewarding indeed!
ShinGaiJin
Hah, I actually remember the day you posted it for the first time, quality stuff. Such a long time ago now....
Hi Muneyoshi.. good to see you here. :bow:
Shin-GaiJin
07-06-2006, 19:08
Hi Muney, you still checking the boards eh! See you on msn soon, take care matey
Muneyoshi
07-08-2006, 16:42
I am always here in some sort of fashion, I'm just not much of a poster:bow: 5 years and I'm not even at 800 posts.
Trajanus
07-10-2006, 05:41
Hey Tyson! ~D didn't know you made it across to this side of the totalwar community aswell!
lol:laugh4:
all those totalrome guys have the same avatar.. :P !!
Let's play with new maps.
Hi Cha ~:wave: ... Good to see you still here too.. :bow:
Hi Drisos.
I'll visit the server if anyone is up for games. If no one shows up, then I'll be back later.
edit - Hmm...I can't get into the server.
Here are my settings. Is anything wrong?:
ChatserverIPAddress = shogun-fakeserver.dnsdojo.org
ChatserverPort = 8793
NewsserverIPAddress = daphne.eagames.co.uk
NewsserverPort = 8797
ShogunTotalWarWebsite = www.totalwar.com
Trajanus
07-15-2006, 11:55
I am setup like you also Cha. I am having problems connecting to the server also.
I too, cannot connect. The server must be down.
These days I cannot login - but it is because I get stuck at 'logging on ...'Which means something is blocked me from getting in. Right now, I don't get past 'connecting ...' which means the server is down (I checked my config - it's ok, and so are yours)
:bow:
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