An easy way to make hoplites' phalanx realistic.

[Lentonius]

In ancient greece the phalanx generally didn't look like it did in RTW.

In descr_model_battle, to make your hoplites, or any other unit in fact, move and fight differently, there is just a couple of very simple steps to take.

1) Open up descr_model_battle

2) find any hoplite unit. I'm using hoplites for this example...


type greek_hoplite
skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman ; combat spear
indiv_range 40
texture slave, data/models_unit/textures/unit_greek_hoplite_slave.tga
texture greek_cities, data/models_unit/textures/unit_greek_hoplite_greek.tga
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_high.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_med.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_low.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite slave, 60.0, data/sprites/slave_greek_hoplite_sprite.spr
model_sprite greek_cities, 60.0, data/sprites/greek_cities_greek_hoplite_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

The only thing you need to change here is this line:

skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman

Then, find any javelin unit,in this case i'm using hastati:




type roman_hastati
skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman

Just copy this fs_javelinman and paste it over fs_spearman, so it looks like this...


type greek_hoplite
skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman


ONE WORD OF WARNING:

cavalry skeletons are different, and i personally wouldn't advise using them on non-mounted units...


Cavalry skeletons look like this:

fs_hc_spearman

HERE IS THE FINAL RESULT:


http://i29.imagethrust.com/i/80461/melee001.jpg (http://www.imagethrust.com)



They have their spears like they should. I know they look far from perfect, but it is an easy way to make your hoplites look more historic...

ALSO, THERE SHOULDN'T BE MORE THAN 2 SKELETONS unless ITS A GENERAL, WHICH I HAVEN'T DONE A TUTORIAL FOR YET



MERRY CHRISTMAS

[Suraknar]

Very nice indeed! :)

This does certaintly add "distinction" flavor, of classical hellenic phalanxes, made up of Hoplites using the "Dori"(comming from Dorian Culture) versus the Alexandrian era Phalanxes made up by Phalangites using the "Sarissa".

The "Xyston" which is mentioned in game for the Armoured Hoplites was actually the spear used by Alexandrian Cavalry(Companions etc).

Just a small question, hoplites use both fs_spearman and fs_slow_spearman skeletons, however there is no fs_slow_javelinman skeleton, I supose we can safelly use fs_javelinman for both cases right?

Thanks

[MansaSakura]

Is there a way to make the spears shorter? Thnx in advance.

[wlesmana]

Your easier option is to use the short_pike attribute.
Another is to actually edit the pike model in 3dsmax and actually shorten it. However, if you do, then it would also affect the short_pike since they're using the same model, except the short one is forcibly shortened by the engine.

[MansaSakura]

thank you for your quick reply. how do use this "short_pike attribute". I'm new to modding but have learned a lot lately. is the short_pike attribute in a specific file? thnx again.

[wlesmana]

Check export_descr_units.txt. Find the entries for the units you want. The info at the top of the file is self-explanatory.

[Alexius_1984]

Hi, I've done this mod, but when I play a battle, the hoplites don't actually thrust their spears. They hold them overarm, like they are supposed to, but it's a bit stupid if they don't actually fight with them. Is there some way to fix this? Thanks!

[wlesmana]

Yea but not that easy, basically you'll need to create a new animation for their attack, which is not that easy unlss you're familiar with 3dsmax and animation. You could use the javelinman's attack (thrown javelin) animation but it looks sorta odd.

The easiest way is, of course, to download SignifierOne's animation pack, which includes the overhand hoplite animation set. Look for it at TWC.

[Alexius_1984]

Thanks, I'll check that out.

[Rino666]

In ancient greece the phalanx generally didn't look like it did in RTW.

In descr_model_battle, to make your hoplites, or any other unit in fact, move and fight differently, there is just a couple of very simple steps to take.

1) Open up descr_model_battle

2) find any hoplite unit. I'm using hoplites for this example...


type greek_hoplite
skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman ; combat spear
indiv_range 40
texture slave, data/models_unit/textures/unit_greek_hoplite_slave.tga
texture greek_cities, data/models_unit/textures/unit_greek_hoplite_greek.tga
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_high.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_med.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_low.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_greek_hoplite_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite slave, 60.0, data/sprites/slave_greek_hoplite_sprite.spr
model_sprite greek_cities, 60.0, data/sprites/greek_cities_greek_hoplite_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

The only thing you need to change here is this line:

skeleton fs_spearman, fs_swordsman

Then, find any javelin unit,in this case i'm using hastati:




type roman_hastati
skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman

Just copy this fs_javelinman and paste it over fs_spearman, so it looks like this...


type greek_hoplite
skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman


ONE WORD OF WARNING:

cavalry skeletons are different, and i personally wouldn't advise using them on non-mounted units...


Cavalry skeletons look like this:

fs_hc_spearman

HERE IS THE FINAL RESULT:


http://i29.imagethrust.com/i/80461/melee001.jpg (http://www.imagethrust.com)



They have their spears like they should. I know they look far from perfect, but it is an easy way to make your hoplites look more historic...

ALSO, THERE SHOULDN'T BE MORE THAN 2 SKELETONS unless ITS A GENERAL, WHICH I HAVEN'T DONE A TUTORIAL FOR YET



MERRY CHRISTMAS

Hi thanks for helping with the hoplites, If it's not too much to ask do you know anyone or anyplace where I can find the Parthian imortals skin. Thanks in advance.

[Marcus Furius Camillus]

giving barbarian generals a two hander is just a question of copying the
fs_2handed and paste it over the fs_dagger part, isn't it ???

and how about giving Barbarian, Roman and Greek generals a sword instead of a dagger ? Also a question of pasting fs_swordsman over
fs_dagger , I presume ?

O, yeah, couldt it be that there are some unit I can't use in those files ? Like an Barbarian Warguard and a Greek hypaspist, or are they EB units ?


MARCVS*FECIT

[Squid]

This would make them use the appropriate annimations, but it doesn't give them the correct weapon. Giving a unit that has a one handed sword a two handed animation doesn't change the sword to be two handed. To do that you need to edit the model.

[Spartan198]

Hi, I've done this mod, but when I play a battle, the hoplites don't actually thrust their spears. They hold them overarm, like they are supposed to, but it's a bit stupid if they don't actually fight with them. Is there some way to fix this? Thanks!

I just now tested this mod and my hoplites thrust their spears. I only tested it on one hoplite unit,but should that matter?

[Darkvicer98]

A question. The Armoured Hoplites and Spartans Hoplites have fs_slow_spearman under their skeleton.

Does it work if you change it to fs_slow_javelinman? If i take out the slow bit the Armoured and Spartan Hoplites go too fast and unrealistic.

[wlesmana]

The "fast" and "slow" part only affects running though, and nothing else.

[comrade_general]

When I use the short_pike attribute the units just walk lazily into eachother and pull their swords immediately. This is even in phalanx mode and they don't even attempt to use their short spears. Has anyone else tried the short_pike attribute and seen this too? Or is there something else that might be changed that is causing this...? If I had my other computer I would post a screen.

[wlesmana]

If the stats for their second weapon (the sword) is higher than the pikes, then they'd use them instead for close combat. If you want them to never use the sword, just remove the secondary weapon stats by making them 0s like other units with one weapon. short_pike doesn't behave like phalanx. Basically they behave more like regular spearmen except with the option to raise or lower the short pikes.

[Novellus]

I almost had this working:

I had a unit of Militia Hoplites and their code looked like this:


type greek hoplite militia
dictionary greek_hoplite_militia ; Militia Hoplites
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Light_1
soldier greek_hoplite_militia, 40, 0, 1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 5, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr spear, spear_bonus_8, short_pike
stat_sec 3, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 0, 3, 5, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 2, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 4, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 230, 100, 30, 40, 230
ownership greek, slave

But all of their spears are backwards due to the overhand animation I borrowed from some peltasts. And I heard that there's no way to fix the spears without changing the model UNLESS I hear otherwise.:wall: