View Full Version : strongest infantry in game (spoilers perhaps?)
like the title.
what did you find teh hardest, thoughest infantry you've faced, or used. and how do they compare head to head?
i find they GAESATAE practically unbeatable in head-to-head infantry fights.
anybody else such experiences?
Up to now the toughest infantry i've had to face are the fanatical naked guys... They rip through my infantry like no other... I remember the first time i faced them, they were guarding a city gate during an assault of mine... I sent in three units of Hastati like i usually do and to my surprise they routed... Sent in my other two and they also ran... (there were other units defending too, lesser quality though) It was in the end my two units of Triarii which saved the day.. They also routed my principes... I was amazed to say the least. :happyg:
Gaesatae I think are the strongest in pure brute strength and shock, but clever tactics can deal with them handily. There are some very very well armored units that I think can toe-to-toe with Gaesatae solely due to their excellent armor, but I never tested it.
wich? wich? :jumping:
anybody havign nasty experiences with torikatai argyraspidai (ninja's~;))? or hypaspistai/pheraspidai?
back again. made a list of *strongest* infantry.
I added the melee-attack up to teh total def. so attk=12, def=31->43....
i don't think this is teh ideal method since it's quite possible that soemthign with attack=17, def=8 (25) can beat a attk=10, def=18 (28)...but stilll. here's teh list:
43: thorakitai argyraspidai (seleucids)
40: Basilikon agema
39: Elite afrikan pikemen, Preitorians, Cohors evocata, thorikatai Hoplitai
38: antesigani, soldurii, rycalawre, arveni arjos, Hypaspistai
37: cohors imperium, pheraspidai, hoplitai iphikrates
36:Iberian aussault infantry, Neitos, Gastiz, hoplitai korintoi.
and off course the gaesatae (36), with 2 HP...
i was very surprised teh ptolemoi had such a powerfull unit...didn't expect it..
EDIT: did soem one-one testing. the gaesatae beat the Thorakiati agryraspidai. pretty toe2toe.
the cohors evocata lost to the Thora's. and the cohors evocate beat the gaesaetae by a mile...
BUT: the thoa's are with 30 men, the chippendale's with 40, and the cohors evocata had 51 men..so that explains a bit...
QwertyMIDX
12-31-2005, 19:22
Luckily in the EB cost system you pay per man :laugh4:.
Ypoknons
01-01-2006, 03:41
Imperial Cohorts are really quite tough. I nailed them on the front of phalanxes, flanked them with hypaspistai, showered them with longbows and they still wouldn't break. Of course there one or two Praetorian cohorts with them as well; that might have helped moral a bit.
The Persian Cataphract
01-01-2006, 04:55
You are all wrong. The Êrânshahr Ârshtibârâ are the most powerful infantry in the game... Well, maybe not in pure, brute force... But they excel in killing off horse archers in every possible way (It could only take a fool to lose against horse archers with a few regiments of these light infantry), something that very few other infantry can do. Foot archers are generally too vulnerable, even against horse archers, as they are practically defenceless against cavalry charges. So versatility and recruit-upkeep cost is kind of... powerful in their own right =P
Oh yeah, I figured I wasn't the only one noticing how Gaesatae practically chews infantry to pieces in melee. While I've read that these guys were practically mountains of flesh on drugs, they can take a hell of a beating, even against flanking from cataphracted cavalry (Zradha Pahlavans). Not only take a hell of a beating, they deal a hell of a swipe as well, and there were moments were I thought that I was actually losing against them. Though I got a crushing victory, those naked fanatics left me quite the impression... Boy oh boy...
Just to further confirm to myself that they were powerhouses, I set up another custom battle, having numerical advantage with my peltastai infantry. Javelins did wonders here. But that didn't help me. When those monsters closed in for melee clashing, I noticed one peltastai card declining rapidly. And I mean rapidly. After one second, there was only ten peltasts left, routing. Not only that, soon after, a chain rout kicked in, and I instantly forgot the cataphract vs. gaesatae match I earlier had. I was like "holy ****". I always knew heavier infantry/shortrange missile infantry never was my forte, but ya'll could imagine how I began to feel about hellenic infantry afterwards. There is no way I'm going to touch the hellenic factions, ever again. In Vanilla, I felt that they were not so good, and RTR my opinion of them reached another bottom. EB however takes the cake. I almost felt sorry for those Peltastai that got slaughtered. "Imitation legionnaires in spirit"... Baloney... Gaesatae are the most powerful infantry in the game when it comes to pure brute force, hands down. I may feel that the Ârshtibârâ are incredibly versatile as cost effective garrison and deterrent against pesky horse-archers, but I'll never forget my 2nd encounter with the Gaesatae. Sweet, sweet jesus...
I like the Thureophoroi. They are great at killing peltasts and can fight fairly well against some heavier infantry. Killing Macedonian phalangites is really easy if you hold them up with hoplites or pikemen and then charge their rear with Thureophoroi. Ekdromoi hoplites have to be some of the best infantry for killing peltasts and other skirmishers, but they are no good against heavier infantry or cavalry.
Krusader
01-01-2006, 17:57
I like the Thureophoroi. They are great at killing peltasts and can fight fairly well against some heavier infantry. Killing Macedonian phalangites is really easy if you hold them up with hoplites or pikemen and then charge their rear with Thureophoroi. Ekdromoi hoplites have to be some of the best infantry for killing peltasts and other skirmishers, but they are no good against heavier infantry or cavalry.
Sounds like they work like they should and are used in the role they are meant for then :2thumbsup:
CorporateSlave
01-02-2006, 17:18
Gaesatae...
I had to laugh at the description:
(https://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00141cw.jpg)
[IMG]https://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8243/00141cw.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
nice work on the campaign though..
I find the Triarier Hoplite unit really strong, if your only troops are lybian spearman and some mercenaries it is really hard to fight them, and the roman armies i faced used them as standard unit....:sweatdrop:
Mujalumbo
01-03-2006, 22:53
The Basilikon Agemata are the guys in white, right? And they beat out the Kleruchoi Agemata?
Spoiler request, I guess, are the Thorakitai Hoplitai going to be KH's strongest unit? (Not that I mind if it is, of course, it's a damned fine unit.)
So far, I've played until 250-ish B.C. as the Koinen Hellenon and the Ptolemaioi. The most powerful infantry units I've been able to recruit have been the Kleruchoi Agemata and then the Thorakitai Hoplitai.
The_Mark
01-04-2006, 00:17
Spartiatai, quite probably
Reenk Roink
01-07-2006, 06:09
For you Epeirote players a chaenonian guard unit (40 men) can nicely hold off those gaesatae 'til your pelatstai soften them up with javelins and the finish them off with a flank charge...
BTW, I'm guessing Spartiatai will be the best infantry unit.
Zenith Darksea
01-08-2006, 23:01
Except for the fact that they're not in the game yet.
mattholomew
01-09-2006, 03:25
in vanilla, phalanxes worked for me to kill anything. I haven't really played as any of the hellenic factions long enought to fight anything but other phalanxes yet, so i was wondering how gaesatae do against a wall of spears. I once came up against a gallic army with six units of them, and they completely destroyed my full stack roman army. It's even harder to take them out when they have other infantry, skirmishers, and cavalry for support. They're definitely great shock troops and have make me think twice about invading gaul.
You know what would be fun, one unit of gaesatae versus a full stack army of vanilla rtw peasants.
Reenk Roink
01-09-2006, 03:37
Except for the fact that they're not in the game yet.
Exactly why I said "will be" :sweatdrop:
:laugh4: One unit of Spartan hoplites against an army of peasants used to be fun. Although if you really wanted to... Go to vanilla, find naked fanatics in the export_descr_unit (i think) and change their stats to the stats of Gaestae in EB... Then you can have your Gaestae versus peasants. :2thumbsup:
Goatus_Boyus
05-04-2007, 02:40
What about this fear causing wolves of wodan??..they tend to break any unit they hit in the rear or flank in my germania game.~:yin-yang:
The Stranger
05-04-2007, 03:25
Luckily in the EB cost system you pay per man :laugh4:.
good invention isnt it :yes:
LordCurlyton
05-04-2007, 05:55
Bah Gaesetae are overrated. Y'all must have crappy Principes. A unit of principes will hold a unit of gaesetae for more than long enough. If you can't get around them in the 5 or so min it takes to break the principes then you needs to refine your tactics.
And you hellenic bashers must not know how to use phalanxes. They are gods in EB almost. Even levy phalanxes are damn useful.
Strongest infantry would have to go to Thorikita Agyraspidai in my book. They can whomp just about anything. Even Marian cohorts and above will take a beating, if not get routed 1 on 1. But then, you never go 1 on 1...:smash:
The Errant
05-04-2007, 09:55
The strongest infantry in the game is not Gaesatae but the Lusotana Dosidataskeli (Vasci Armoured Shock Infantry), after that comes Seleukid Thorakitai Argyraspidai and Goidilic Uachtarach DuboGaiscaocha (Goidilic Armoured Shock Infantry).
They may not have the shock value of the Gaesatae charge or two hitpoints but in sheer staying power they are the best. The javelins they throw are all iron Solifera which can easily bring down the one hitpoint advantage of the Gaesatae, and they all have both enough armor and skill to withstand the charge meant to break them.
Exactamondo! The mightiest infantry is the Vascii Armoured Shoch Infantry, from the mightiest Lusotanan faction. Ahem. They are indeed powerful, they impressed their foes so much that even as far as in the empire of AS they were copied.
Add that an excellent morale, bonus fighting cavalry, expert at hiding in the woods and you got yourself a mini superman. God, I how love them!
The original Lusotannan badass:
https://europabarbarorum.com/i/units/lusotannan/lus_dosidataskeli.gif
Arche Seleukeia clonetrooper:
https://europabarbarorum.com/i/units/arche-seleukeia/seleukid_thorakitai_argyras.gif
Goidillic brother:
https://europabarbarorum.com/i/units/eleutheroi/goidilic_infantry_uacht.gif
Fondor_Yards
05-04-2007, 21:34
Notice most of these posts are well over a year old. Back then there was no Dosidataskeli.
Owen the Mighty
05-05-2007, 03:57
I would have to agree that those naked psychos have to be the best shock infantry in the game, but for holding-the-line infantry (heavy, essentially) I would have to nominate Saka Heavy Hoplites and Makedonian Reformed Pikmen....if walls could walk, they'd be like these guys. A close third in my book would be Baktrian Royal Guards.
1. First Cohorts
2. Gaesatae
3. Wodanawulfuz
4. Vascii Shock Infantry
5. Ethiopian Agema
6. Spartan Hoplites
Owen the Mighty
05-06-2007, 16:24
Oh, for versatility, Indo-Greek Peltasts have to be up there. They're just too good to not include in my armies!:smash:
I know the stats doesn't really show it but I often find the KH hoplites a tough nut to crack. They don't respond to being surrounded at all and is fairly resistant to archers. Also they are very mobile, good against cavalry and don't lose their breath in an instant. All considered, a very nice allround unit.
After fighting them a few times as romani I'm actually a bit tempted to start an KH campaign.
Zafersan
05-12-2007, 03:06
Spartans > all
To the above post, I also find Greek hoplites extremely usefull. I like the hoplite phalanx a lot better then the Makedonian pike phalanx. The pikemen just can't move around as well as hoplites can.
Watchman
05-12-2007, 13:10
I suspect a straight match-up of Spartiatoi vs. about any of the high-end falcata-waving assault infantry - Iberians, Samnites, Extraordinarii - would seriously cast doubts on that assessement...
The Classical Hoplites don't really strike me as too different from Thureophoroi though. The difference in armour level and attack skill is minimal and the Thureos have precursors to boot, so frankly all the Hoplitai could really have going for them is maybe a better morale and formation-density and mass-related issues. On the other hand, the Thureophoroi are good and affordable jack-of-all-trades workhorse infantry so the above can't really be viewed as much of a demerit for the Hoplitai either...
Kralizec
05-12-2007, 18:32
I suspect a straight match-up of Spartiatoi vs. about any of the high-end falcata-waving assault infantry - Iberians, Samnites, Extraordinarii - would seriously cast doubts on that assessement...
The Classical Hoplites don't really strike me as too different from Thureophoroi though. The difference in armour level and attack skill is minimal and the Thureos have precursors to boot, so frankly all the Hoplitai could really have going for them is maybe a better morale and formation-density and mass-related issues. On the other hand, the Thureophoroi are good and affordable jack-of-all-trades workhorse infantry so the above can't really be viewed as much of a demerit for the Hoplitai either...
Hoplitai have +1 morale compared to thureophoroi and more importantly, good stamina.
Since I'm using BI.exe I also gave the hoplitai shield_wall, wich is a bit of a double edged sword because you'll need to have quite a lot of them to make a long line. When you do however, they're very much worthwile.
russia almighty
05-13-2007, 03:49
Hoplitai also have bonus against cavalry .
QwertyMIDX
05-13-2007, 05:22
So do Thureophoroi.
Watchman
05-13-2007, 09:00
Most things with a spear do (or, at the least, they get less penalty than other troops of their "class" do, as is the case with many spear-carrying light skirmisher types).
Kralizec
05-13-2007, 14:45
So do Thureophoroi.
In the last two versions of EB, the thureophoroi (and mercenary version) have had a bonus against chariots and elephants, not cavalry or camels.
I figured this was an error so I changed the EDU.
QwertyMIDX
05-13-2007, 17:51
Yeah, if they don't its an error. They should get the same bonus as all overhand spear troops. +3 I think, but I might be wrong.
maybe the hoplites get less penalties than Tureuphoroi... After all, they fought in a closer formation than the Tureos...
Cheers...
Watchman
05-13-2007, 20:01
Overhand close-combat spear inf got +1 against cav as the norm, underhands +2 IIRC.
NeoSpartan
05-14-2007, 23:46
I think the differnece is mass really makes a difference. For example, Horses have a very tough time pushing them.
Alright, all those that think agraspidai thoratikai and Losotann and Godilic versions are the best, casse sword masters destroy them in battle. In a 1 on 1 battle, the sword masters killed all of them with 30 men left. It's the effective against armour that does the job. Also Hyspaspitai are pretty shit, Bactrian agema are very good.
QwertyMIDX
05-21-2007, 19:17
And that's what's good about EB, every unit has an effective counter. That's why you have to use combined arms tactics to be effective.
Yup. Those Sword Masters fall in shame under the naked fanatics heel. THe naked fanatics are great close commbat troops as AP weapons don't really bother them (hurra you manage to reduce my armor points in half! you took 3 points of armor...). Yet those fall to the Dosidataskeli and Argyraspidai Thorakitai. and they fall hard. They are routed and the Dosi still have nearly 80 on their own.
Cheers...
quackingduck
10-03-2007, 03:56
The strongest infantry in the game is not Gaesatae but the Lusotana Dosidataskeli (Vasci Armoured Shock Infantry), after that comes Seleukid Thorakitai Argyraspidai and Goidilic Uachtarach DuboGaiscaocha (Goidilic Armoured Shock Infantry).
They may not have the shock value of the Gaesatae charge or two hitpoints but in sheer staying power they are the best. The javelins they throw are all iron Solifera which can easily bring down the one hitpoint advantage of the Gaesatae, and they all have both enough armor and skill to withstand the charge meant to break them.
im playing as the Lusitanians and i dont know where to build the barracks to get Dosidataskeli (Vasci Armoured Shock Infantry). their description says they can only be trained in Cantabria-Vasconnia, but there isnt a province called Cantabria-Vasconnia. there is one called cantabria, but the barracks i built there doesn't look like its going anywhere(when i right click on the $6000 barracks there are no new units i can build).
Do you know where these guys can be trained?
Eastern part of the Peninsula. Highest level of MIC required.
Cheers...
quackingduck
10-05-2007, 03:22
Eastern part of the Peninsula. Highest level of MIC required.
Cheers...
can u give me an exact province name or city name please??
would be much appritiated
deguerra
10-09-2007, 08:48
ummm, im having trouble finding a lot of units in custom battle. i assume the custom battle factions havent been cleaned up for EB yet. where does one change the units available in custom battles/is there a fix for this?
cheers
-deguerra
A Terribly Harmful Name
10-10-2007, 14:48
The best infantry in the game is undoubtely the Cohors Imperatoria. They are cheap and will batter through the enemy elites like hot knife through butter. They are a wall, literally.
Except when facing these dreaded Samnitici... You'll need a Cohors Praetoria to beat them, but they're not cost effective as rank and file legionaries.
NeoSpartan
10-10-2007, 17:20
....
Except when facing these dreaded Samnitici... You'll need a Cohors Praetoria to beat them, but they're not cost effective as rank and file legionaries.
says who????
say what???? I can deal with the Samniti ... hell I've seen them route when they only took 10 casualties :smash: (out of 80 men)
NeoSpartan
10-10-2007, 17:21
....
Except when facing these dreaded Samnitici... You'll need a Cohors Praetoria to beat them, but they're not cost effective as rank and file legionaries.
says who????
I can deal with the Samniti ... hell I've seen them route when they only took 10 casualties :smash: (out of 80 men)
A Terribly Harmful Name
10-10-2007, 23:44
says who????
I can deal with the Samniti ... hell I've seen them route when they only took 10 casualties :smash: (out of 80 men)
Individually, Samniti are the toughest infantry on the game, except for the Praetorian Cohort. Of course, that doesn't include pike infantry and their special attack.
However, in a big battle, I wear them down with my hastati + my missile units, so they're an easy prey for the mass of fresh soldiers that strikes later. But a large number of them will be tough as hell to beat.
Just a question. For the Maks where can you recruit Taxeis Triballoi? (sp)
They're regionals I think but I havent found them yet.
Thanks
Rae.
quackingduck
10-14-2007, 05:12
so will vaski armoured shock infantry still be the strongest infatry in the game with the 1.0 patch? anyone know??
Beefy187
10-14-2007, 05:40
If you got one of the AP units you can easily rout the Samniti:laugh4:
Ill have to do some custom battling. See if Spartans are stronger then before
gurakshun
10-14-2007, 07:35
If you got one of the AP units you can easily rout the Samniti:laugh4:
Ill have to do some custom battling. See if Spartans are stronger then before
they are, they are far superior to their 0.8x versions, the epilektoi hoplitai and the spartans do ridiculously well on neitos, solduros, etc. (straight up beating them)...it seems in 0.8x the longsword users reigned supreme, and now with 1.x, the armoured shock infantry and the elite hoplites rule.
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