Time Period (1080-1530)

[ShadesWolf]

Any comments on the time period and what events we would expect to see covered.


The grand campaign will span four and half centuries of history from the years 1080-1530. It begins with the golden age of chivalry and the crusades, spans the Mongol invasion and the invention of gunpowder, and ends with gun toting professional armies, the renaissance and the discovery of America.
- From IGN article

[King Ragnar]

Well the fact it will have guns will allow loads more possibilities for modders.

[The_Doctor]

Wars of the Roses.

[doc_bean]

The rise of protestantism (that was in this period wasn't it ?)

[King Noob the Stupid]

Hmh I don't think they're gonna include protestantism (Luther started reformation in 1517, so there wouldn't be much time for it to affect the gameplay), it would be nice if they'd put in the Wester Schism with up to 3 different popes fighting each other supported by the allies each of them had among the kings, but I don't think it's possible do bring it into the game.

[Lord Armbandit]

Wars of the Roses - this is just a civil war, surely these will just happen if you have loyalty/family issues, as in MTW1. Hard-coding it would be rubbish, if you really want a civil war, just screw your generals over and start one!

Schism- it sounds like you will be able to support cardinals trying to become pope, so perhaps something along these lines will be possible?

[Kraxis]

Well obviously both the Mongols and the Timurids will pay a visit as some point. Hopefully not at the same spot or time each time. It was too easy to halt the Mongols in MTW by placing a number of Pavise Arbalesters in their way, especially in the provinces with bridges.

Perhaps the HYW will play an impact? Though either France or England has longe since been snuffed out when it arrives it would be nice. Perhaps it will merely be a case of political instances?

[kataphraktoi]

Hundred Years War
Crusades:
Includes the Latin Roman Empire
Mongol Invasion (Middle East and Eastern Europe theatres)
Ottoman Invasion of Austria
Ottoman Siege of Malta
The Norman Invasions (of Epirus, Greece, Macedonia and their raids on the African coast)

[Antiochius]

the ottoman invasion in austria was later, i think 1560 or so on

[Subedei]

Oh, sadly enough, Manzikert (1071) won't be an option.....

[ShadesWolf]

Oh, sadly enough, Manzikert (1071) won't be an option.....

But it could be an historic battle, as Hastings.

The Hundred Years War is a must. But you would also need to include Burgundy for this. If you include Burgundy you also need 'The Swiss'. This would therefore add two non-playable factions, which I assume will be in the game.

Only having one spanish factions is also a bit weak, you really need Aragon and Navarre to balance the area if you are to include Portugal.

[Perplexed]

[QUOTE=ShadesWolf]But it could be an historic battle, as Hastings.

The Hundred Years War is a must. But you would also need to include Burgundy for this. If you include Burgundy you also need 'The Swiss'. This would therefore add two non-playable factions, which I assume will be in the game.[QUOTE]

Actually, at this time, Burgundy was probably a lot more powerful than France... I don't know anything about the Swiss though. How did they come to appear on the world stage?

[NodachiSam]

There was a swiss confederacy 1291 - 1515ish but they became independant in 1648. So I assume they were loosely controlled part of HRE.

http://www.about.ch/history/

http://history-switzerland.geschichte-schweiz.ch/

[Antiochius]

i think also, but perhabs are the burgund and some other nonplaybale

[A.Saturnus]

Around 1500, the Swiss were a strong military power that defeated practically everyone it faced. The Swiss style of war can be said to have ended the medieval age as a military period.

[Ryanus]

Just curious, what was the time frame for the previous MTW

[King Noob the Stupid]

1087-1453.

[Slammer]

Yes i asked in another but this might be better,the Spanish have the large pike blocks with the musket gunners on the edges.Also with they be a combinded unit or seperate groups.

[Peasant Phill]

See my answer in the other thread: "they'll prabably be seperate units".

[Tamur]

I don't know exactly how they would fit into the game, but the famine (1315-1317) and the first plague (1347-1351) would be "fun" challenges ~:) Maybe a sharp drop in crop production around 1314, then a massive plague that cuts all city-based units (including citizens) to 1/3rd - 1/2 strength.

[poo_for_brains]

The reason that they adopted the whole policy of turns was so that they could fit this kind of stuff in, even if it occurred close to the end of the game.

Don't know how they'd handle it though - possibly Luther could be a very powerful heretic who would turn up and start converting priests, disrupting the religion in Central Europe etc.

[poo_for_brains]

Hmh I don't think they're gonna include protestantism (Luther started reformation in 1517, so there wouldn't be much time for it to affect the gameplay), it would be nice if they'd put in the Wester Schism with up to 3 different popes fighting each other supported by the allies each of them had among the kings, but I don't think it's possible do bring it into the game.
The reason that they adopted the whole policy of turns was so that they could fit this kind of stuff in, even if it occurred close to the end of the game.

Don't know how they'd handle it though - possibly Luther could be a very powerful heretic who would turn up and start converting priests, disrupting the religion in Central Europe etc.

[Shaun]

The reason that they adopted the whole policy of turns was so that they could fit this kind of stuff in, even if it occurred close to the end of the game.


Years would have worked just as well, infact a years system would be far less confusing too, as people will die on set dates, and discoveries will happen on correct dates etc.

[poo_for_brains]

I'm not arguing the side of turns, I'm just saying that was there explanation for it: they're trying to give more time for stuff like the conquest of the Americas (with years, there would be less than 50 turns of the aztecs)

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

I read something about 225 turns. Does that mean that each turn will be 2 years?

[B-Wing]

I read something about 225 turns. Does that mean that each turn will be 2 years?

That's a topic of some debate.

[poo_for_brains]

Current opinion seems to be that the length of time that each turn will represent will vary, in order to give the player more turns in the new world, for instance. But CA haven't really explained it all that clearly.

[Mr Frost]

As I percieve the system CA intends to use , units of time rather than months will be the base of game length , historical event ocurance , character lifespans and /recruitmentconstruction time for units and buildings with turns being of variable number depending on which scales of month/turn {or days/turn etc} you choose throuout the game .
You might start with one season per turn {3 months} and never change it for the whole game and have a game lasting 1350 turns , or you might get bored in many points and speed things up with each turn being 5 years of game time and have a game of only a few hundred turns {both still covering exactly the same gametime with events happening on que , lifespans as should be etc .

It seems to be simply that we will be able to fast-forward or slow-motion the game as we see fit {within some sort of limit of course} .

[Sir Robin]

As I percieve the system CA intends to use , units of time rather than months will be the base of game length , historical event ocurance , character lifespans and /recruitmentconstruction time for units and buildings with turns being of variable number depending on which scales of month/turn {or days/turn etc} you choose throuout the game .
You might start with one season per turn {3 months} and never change it for the whole game and have a game lasting 1350 turns , or you might get bored in many points and speed things up with each turn being 5 years of game time and have a game of only a few hundred turns {both still covering exactly the same gametime with events happening on que , lifespans as should be etc .

It seems to be simply that we will be able to fast-forward or slow-motion the game as we see fit {within some sort of limit of course} .

Wow, I have not gotten that feeling from what I've read.

[GodWillsIt]

Around 1500, the Swiss were a strong military power that defeated practically everyone it faced. The Swiss style of war can be said to have ended the medieval age as a military period.

That would be a good prompt around 1500 or when Charles The Bold (last duke of Burgundy) is killed by the swiss it would unlock some new formations, tactics, or weapons?

doubt it will happen though.

[ShadesWolf]

Are the Swiss or Burgundy in the game ?

[ShadesWolf]

As I percieve the system CA intends to use , units of time rather than months will be the base of game length , historical event ocurance , character lifespans and /recruitmentconstruction time for units and buildings with turns being of variable number depending on which scales of month/turn {or days/turn etc} you choose throuout the game .
You might start with one season per turn {3 months} and never change it for the whole game and have a game lasting 1350 turns , or you might get bored in many points and speed things up with each turn being 5 years of game time and have a game of only a few hundred turns {both still covering exactly the same gametime with events happening on que , lifespans as should be etc .

It seems to be simply that we will be able to fast-forward or slow-motion the game as we see fit {within some sort of limit of course} .

I like this idea :2thumbsup:

[Tamur]

Wow, that would be positively brilliant if that were the case, Mr. Frost. This would allow anyone -- those who want to fly through the game, and those who want to go in detail -- to play how they wish.

Design-wise, the only difficulty I can see is that the speedy version would leave faction members with about a twelve turn lifespan, so the player would not really have the possiblity of "grooming" a leader up to be faction leader via traits & ancillaries. Then again, someone on speed-mode will probably worry less about such details.

I guess we will see, but I can't think of any real negatives to a system like that.

[Orb]

That would be a great system.

I'd prefer a start at 1100, with the Crusaders established already (controlled by France etc.). That would give a better start game to the Egyptians, the Turkish, the French, and others. Or possibly even a 1098/1099 start with the Crusaders as a 'horde' (mini-faction: Crusading Kingdoms) moving down from the Byzantine empire, causing chaos, etc., giving a Fatimid or Seljuk start a more defensive quality.

[caravel]

I was of the understanding that the game will play out optimally over a period of 225 turns non representative of years, seasons or months. Generals were supposed to be aging 1 year every 2 turns. Strange.

[Ph34rb0t]

The idea of adjustable turns is a REALLY good one!:2thumbsup: I havent seen anything that supports it working like that... Imagine the depth of a 1000 turn game!

I think it would be really hard for them to impliment the sheer number of different short-lived factions of the period... if you start with burgundy, castille, aragon.. the swiss.. etc. etc. it will just spiral until you have hundreds of different factions to represent... cool: yes... doable? no.

Unfortunately most of these things will have to be simplified methinks.. also Historical events become difficult to create, as the situations in the game are unlikely to be anywhere near the historical periods of the same time, especially in the late game.. I guess if you want to have a hundred years war... have a period of fighting and random ceasefires with France? I'm sure they could somehow script certain events... emergence of people like Luther for example... but things that involve faction interaction would be difficult.