Includes America and Azteks? Huh?

[Divinus Arma]

So. Good idea or bad idea?

[sapi]

It can't hurt to broarden the game; if you don't like it just conquer europe first...

[Weebeast]

I don't know why I should hate it. However, if the Aztecs invade Europe then I would be pissed.

I believe they should make conquering America worth my time.

[Gurkhal]

I wouldn't mind even if the Aztecs invaded Europe. Never bought any TW game because I wanted to watch a historical documentary.

[sapi]

I wouldn't mind even if the Aztecs invaded Europe. Never bought any TW game because I wanted to watch a historical documentary.I wouldn't mind this happening if a faction attacked them, lost, then got chased back to europe...

[Weebeast]

I always try to do what some people/civilizations didn't do but there's standard. When playing Byzantine I always wipe out Turks first. It's not historically correct but Byzantine could wipe out Turks. The 'Americans' didn't even try set up expeditions beyond atlantic how could they invade Europe?

Maybe I'm just nitpicking or whatever. I admit I'd probably try to invade Europe when I play as Aztecs but it kinda defeats the purpose of basing a game on historical events then. CA should've come up with Celtic Invasion expansion; an invasion to Jutland by the Celts.

[The_Doctor]

They said you need certain technology to cross the atlantic and I don't think the Aztecs will have to tech.

I think will emerge as a faction after a certain date, or they would have ~500 years to conquer and build a massive army. This would make them hard to beat.

Also, I don't they will be playable, unless you mod the game.

[Ianofsmeg16]

In an interview one of the CA guys said that one of the 'playable' factions are the aztecs

[Rodion Romanovich]

Gah! It could go either way. Counquering those underdeveloped and barbaric :grin: Europeans with the Azteks could be fun, but it should be very unlikely to get that working otherwise it would be to unhistorical. As for conquering the Americas as the Spanish, it could be interesting, but much of that conquest had to do with the ability of getting allies and use diplomacy to turn local tribes against each others, so if there's no good diplomacy allowing for something similar it just become a series of battles without depth plus might detract from the gameplay in the rest of the game - Europe for example. If the faction slot could have been used for other European factions it's also a negative thing. But if the naval aspect of the game is improved then the whole colonization thing could make the late games more interesting.

[doc_bean]

Gah!

We shall see how it works out, but I would have preferred an eastern expansion (India !) and/or possibly an African expansion (there were African kingdoms at the time weren't there ?). Both would have made playing as a muslim faction more interesting.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Gah!

We shall see how it works out, but I would have preferred an eastern expansion (India !) and/or possibly an African expansion (there were African kingdoms at the time weren't there ?). Both would have made playing as a muslim faction more interesting.

That's actually a very good idea :2thumbsup: The Portuguese started exploring the African coast in the early 15th century, almost 100 years before the game's ending date. Plus they opened a path to India with Vasco da Gama quite early as well. Actually it's much more logical to expand to include Africa and India before even thinking about expanding the map to include America, but I guess the America stuff is made for the popular 12 years old market, might attract more Spanish and American players who knows?

[King Ragnar]

I dont like it, i cant see how they will get it to work with out making the game really unaccurate historically.

[Shahed]

It's easy just think AOE ;)

[Akka]

Though more options is always welcome, I really don't see what the Aztecs have to do with medieval europe.

Seems a largely artificial addition that detract from the point of the game.
I would have much prefered an enlarged map including more of the east/mid-east world to make the Crusade deeper.

[Silver Rusher]

I dont like it, i cant see how they will get it to work with out making the game really unaccurate historically.
Why?

[Antiochius]

I don`t like it. i want to play in Europe and not in America

[Roberto]

Well fight in europe instead and do not bother about america simple as

[Taurus]

I think that it will be a great addition both in campaign map size (hopefully) and in many other respects.

[The_Doctor]

In an interview one of the CA guys said that one of the 'playable' factions are the aztecs

Only in MP/custom

[Silver Rusher]

never mind

[King Henry V]

I hate it and I find it would ruin the game if they stuck it in the vanilla campaign map.
However, it it not a bad idea for an expansion on a seperate map.

[Mithrandir]

The more the merrier :).

[A.Saturnus]

It depends how they implement it.

[ajaxfetish]

I voted for 'hate it,' but I don't really hate it, I just don't like it, but there wasn't such an option. My interest lies in Medieval Europe, and that is what I want to play. I think it'd work for an expansion (though I'd prefer something to bring in the earlier dark ages), but I'd rather not have it involved in my main gameplay. Hopefully the influence of the faction will be very limited.


That's actually a very good idea :2thumbsup: The Portuguese started exploring the African coast in the early 15th century, almost 100 years before the game's ending date. Plus they opened a path to India with Vasco da Gama quite early as well. Actually it's much more logical to expand to include Africa and India before even thinking about expanding the map to include America, but I guess the America stuff is made for the popular 12 years old market, might attract more Spanish and American players who knows?
More logical, yes. But of course there are probably more potential buyers in America than Nigeria, etc., and as you pointed out they've got to make the game for their market.

Ajax

[Ludens]

It depends how they implement it.
I agree. Though I remain sceptical, I will refrain from judging until I know more.

[Prince Cobra]

:no: I don't like it. It is too unrealistic (before Columbus nobody new them and they have only some decades to win) and they are very different from the factions of the 'old world'. But if they are a separate campaign- no problem!

[Martok]

To be honest, adding the Aztecs feels to me like so much "fluff". I hope there will be the option to disable the "New World" part of the campaign, as I have absolutely no wish to play it.

[Craterus]

To be honest, adding the Aztecs feels to me like so much "fluff". I hope there will be the option to disable the "New World" part of the campaign, as I have absolutely no wish to play it.

You won't HAVE to go there. If you get the opportunity, just ignore it.

[Attrebus]

I personally say that the Americas should be scrapped, and instead the Meso-American civs should be used to further populate Europe.

[Martok]

You won't HAVE to go there. If you get the opportunity, just ignore it.


Except that I don't want anyone *else* to be able to sail to the Americas, either; therefore I want the option to disable it.

[sapi]

Except that I don't want anyone *else* to be able to sail to the Americas, either; therefore I want the option to disable it.
To disable it, kill all the other factions before the opportunity presents itself:laugh4:

[AntiochusIII]

I absolutely hate the idea, since it directs the focus away from the true game: Medieval Europe. This is Medieval: Total War (II).

Africa AND Asia are the TRUE extensions if they wish to do so. The Americas were completely out of the Medieval scope, no matter where you look from. The Mali (sp?) kingdom in Africa, and the Khwarasmian empire in Asia, on the other hand...

The African gold trade was important, and one king of that kingdom even visited Mecca in a glamorous fashion. Surely Mecca is part of the Medieval world? The Khwarasmian empire also crossed swords with the Mongols.

If they're in vanilla, they better stay out. Completely. A seperate campaign is fine, though.

[Akka]

Africa AND Asia are the TRUE extensions if they wish to do so. The Americas were completely out of the Medieval scope, no matter where you look from.
Exactly my thoughts.

[Hôjô Ujimara]

It's a really bad idea, if I wanted to conquer the Americas they're lots of games for that, but I want Europe.....

Fond memories of the past months on MTW could never be returned if the Americas were included. And as for Africa and Asia, it should only span partly down Africa, like the Egyptian Nile length, and only span to the edge of the Caspian to include Baghdad. A large map would make the game even longer than it should be, haulign units over the Atlantic doesn't soudn interesting to me, and if there's an increased speed for the boats, that menas you could whizz around Europe easily.

So in short, it should be removed.

[NodachiSam]

I think its a really bad idea and I'm nervous about how they'll implement it. I wish they would have gone east or perhaps straight west. I suspect and hope they put it into a different map/campaign. Having a middle and lower American totalwar campaign could totaly work though the arrival of the spanish probably would be nerfed for balance.

[Gazi Husrev-Beg]

However, if the Aztecs invade Europe then I would be pissed.

Ohhhh LOL....i would be pissed :furious3: ..i would take game and flush it down the toilet.Than i would start playing MTW :idea2:

[SirGrotius]

Gah!

I think it's generally a silly idea, though I can imagine in some MP games lining up some Teutonic Chargers against some jaded Aztecs could be appealing.

[pyradyn]

I actualy think its a good idea since you cant go early in the game. Yes it is Medieval total war but the renisance started in the 1400's so about 150 years is renesance and in this time very little war at least benifit wars were really fought most looked to the new world to strengthen their empire and rid the stalemate. Oh and just to let you know 12 year old american gamers are to busy playing there **** hack and slash shooter games lol dont get me wrong thos can be fun. but for the well more "educated and older" of us Americans we stick to Stragety and a few RPG's.

So pack up your ship and make room for your coffers its time to sail to America. Althoug actualy I would like to go to China and Japan if that far mabey India but they already made up their minds and it has already been marketed so its not gona change best be optimistic

[Bob the Insane]

Well Columbus "discovered" the americas in 1492 (though some argue for 1485) and the Conquistadors did over the Aztech by 1522 and did the same for the Incas in 1539...

For a game with a European focus and a time period of 1080-1530 this is possible but very much a small part of the end game. Mind you if they handle the economics better in this version (and you are not aready rediculously rich by this point) then the trade and gold coming from the new world could give the conquoring faction a real boost for the last few years...

I wonder if the "discovery" will be a slightly randomized event like the Marius reforms...

I can see the point of it's inclusion because it is an area conquored by europeans within the time period of the game, unlike all the other places that where "discovered" at the time...

Overall I am Gah!, because I am unsure how it will turn out...

P.S. I say "dsicovered" in that manner because the act of being discovered is always a serious surprize to the people already living there and who didn't realise that they where lost in the first place!

Also... I wonder if they are reintroducing the Glorious Achievements gmae again?!?! Spain would have to conquror that Aztecs to get the points!! That would be sweet...

[Dark_Magician]

So. Good idea or bad idea?

I will only play Azteks if they have crying women, these are my requirements of any historical faction

[dancho]

I just voted "hate it" but I can't resist trying to suggest a few Aztec "special units"

Heart Gobblers. Rush into enemy formations, cut out their hearts and eat them.

Flaming War Monkeys. 'Nuff said.

Obsidian Blade Merchants. Oy!

Tequila Consumption Inquisitors. If they find out you've been drinking they slow roast you over a jalepeno fire. Ow! (But tasty!)

Special Leader Unit: 7 Rat Jaguar. No reason. I just like the name.

Special "everybody surrenders" mode. Entire Aztec army surrenders if 1) they see a horse 2) they see anything that looks like a horse 3) something about a horse.

:wall:

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi,

How about a unit of pox children, for the Spanish, you let them loose in battle at the Aztecs and 50% start to festering with sores and drop over dead. Then you let the rest run away back to the cities to spread the happiness around. Just a very sad thought, very sad.

But then the Aztecs/Incas in late game get to introduce a new troop, Merchants of the coca leaf and all the invaders just sit around on the field being paranoid and start fighting amongst themselves. The cities become poor and revolt, and then the Aztecs/Incas bribe them with a magic white powder that makes it all go away - the cities and armies join the Aztecs/Incas and all is wonderful again.

Ya I know to sad too.

[dancho]

Hi,

How about a unit of pox children, f



Oh, I thought you said pox CHICKENS.

Tactical notes:

Deploy your pox chickens directly behind the archers and black robes (psy-ops). When the Aztecs attempt their Flaming War Monkey flanking maneuver, unleash the pox chickens and set the black robes to "auto baptize."

Use cavalry to trigger the "auto surrender" mode, but watch out for heart-gobbler skirmishers

Yeah baby.

Maybe some folks will feel inspired to add some historical tweaks.:juggle2:

[TB666]

I'm leaning towards good idea.
If CA has done them properly and made sure that their introduction is handled right like they are unplayable and will stay there until a faction has the guts to go over there and will face hordes of aztecs then they will be a great addition.:2thumbsup:
But if CA has made them into a normal faction that will invade England 10 years into the game then they are a horrible idea.:wall:

[mfberg]

If they have done it correctly you should get shipments of gold at the end game for whoever conquers the central/south americas, if its not you then you have a big problem as an opposing major power gets the loot.

mfberg

[Sir Robin]

I wouldn't really worry about it to much.

This game is still at least a year away, probably get kicked back to spring 2007 if not later. A lot can and probably will change in that time.

I do think including the Aztecs is rather silly since the word "Medieval" makes many people think "crusades" or "knights." Having the Aztecs in the mix seems a kind of desperate way of making MTW2 different from MTW.

[pyradyn]

True but would you like them to cut the date back to 1430's or somthing or the game just be very unhistorical and they not even know America exist and just continue owning the map being bored. I think CA isnt stupid and the Aztecs wont be able to sail to Europe so stop bringing that up, not gona happen. The Aztecs werent as weak as you thought yes at first they were stunned but they relized they were no gods the only reason the spanish conqured them and I mean ONLY is because of the disease they brought. I have been to Mexico City many times its nearly impossable to lay seige to that city its in the middle of a huge lake. Plus some farms were on the island and you can still fish and have a supply of fresh water. Who do you think can wait longer. I would love to try to take on that city it would look brilliant if the citys are more into the terrain than RTW. 4 long Bridges to cross and then meet a gate. Not the best in the world but would you like to bring a canon across the bridge to meet a hail of arrows. Plus all you people who want some more of Africa look at a map Aztec Land (Mexico if you didnt know that you should be shot) isnt inline with europe so to include that they would have to give some more of africa and that means more land for you Arabs :2thumbsup: and of they include all of Mexico then you have pretty much the entire United States and parts of Canada compared to how far north the map goes. Mabey even include Mecca in Arabia so stop complaining and be optimistic its a new thing if you want the same old game in 3D they are making mods for that. Although i love MTW lol. They could even include a North American tribe or just let the Aztecs become UBER see how strong you are then you mighty European power. oh one more thing AZTEC MERCS IN YOUR LINES IN EUROPE. That should have a Shock bonus on all who have yet to discover America but they should be dirt cheap due to lack of umm clothing yes. You know what if its build style like MTW then you could discover the tech to sail like after the Compass and some decent ships. BRING ON THE GOLD AND AZTEC MERCS. Although if they screw this up no one will let me forget it so please CA dont mess it up for me

[Duke John]

I do think including the Aztecs is rather silly since the word "Medieval" makes many people think "crusades" or "knights." Having the Aztecs in the mix seems a kind of desperate way of making MTW2 different from MTW.
I agree. I think it's a waste of manhours and resources. I would much rather see that being used to diversify Europe more then having the Aztecs at the end of the game. And most players will probably have finished/abandoned the campaign before that happens anyway.

[Samurai Waki]

The Aztec Idea is absolutely rubbish because historically speaking it only involves 2 factions, the Aztecs and the Spanish. Those resources could go somewhere else, as suggested before perhaps Kwarazimian Empire, or the Kingdom of Mali instead. I think that as a possible future game, the Aztecs, and other various American tribes could be represented through Colonialism and Imperialism, but on the other hand... you would almost have to make a map of the entire world. I just hope CA does a darn good job of implementing the Aztecs, or I'll just write them a letter about how disappointed I am!:laugh4:

[King Yngvar]

I say no, it means working time the developers must spend on this entirely unique faction, nothing can be borrowed from the European factions as I see it... This time could have been spent well improving and adding European factions, which is what the Medieval should be all about.

[nepal]

We had no problem accepting a successful Mongol Invasion of Japan. So why not an Aztec Invasion of Europe, or at least a successful repulse of a European invasion of what they thought was India?

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi everyone, read with humour......:laugh4:

Excellent point Nepal, this is a game that the player redirects history, not re-enacts history. We make our factions behave, as we would like. We are not bound by history; it is a game of our destiny, our re-making history.

I guess we should all complain when the Moors invade England in our games and take it over, or conquer Rome and convert the papacies religious believes. But I guess the disbelievers are right, CA should set very specific limits on our choices and the AI’s choices in game so we can never stray from the beaten path. Seems boring to me.

Scotland never fighting along the Spanish coast carving out my own piece of the Mediterranean I can call home. Setting up fine castles drinking a fine scotch whiskey watching the sunset and planning my conquest of North Africa.

But a knock on my door it’s the great AI god in the sky…. Oh sorry King Malcolm but according to my book the Scots never conquered England, Normandy, or Spain, and what’s this about heading off to Africa…. nope sorry back to the fine glades and lochs of Scotland for you.

Cut scene……………………..

“You have lost your empire to a mistake in following the true path. Please start again, please read the 1,700,000 HISTORY OF THE WORLD read me file enclosed with your game”

It’s a game. If you want history exact then read some history…or go out and take up something and make history…. find a cure for cancer, a new source of energy, get off the arm chair and become destiny. Because this is where you can make your own pretend destiny, and I am darn excited about settling into my armchair with a fine scotch whiskey kicking some Spanish butt so they never find the Aztecs. And if the Aztecs find me excellent cause I will kick their butt back to that great lake where they came from…try to take my villa on the Mediterranean…hey if you had snow ½ the year you would fight tooth and nail to protect your armchair in the sun.

Well laugh all. It is only a game. And again my qualifier for this site…. I am only joking.:laugh4:

Have a great snowy day.

[ajaxfetish]

I think the problem isn't that people want the game to play out exactly as history did. It's that many people (myself included) want to play Medieval:Total War, rather than Age of Colonies: Total War. It's a game about the middle ages (and that happened in Europe, and some of Africa and Asia), and I don't want any distractions that risk lessening that experience.

Ajax

[Duke John]

We had no problem accepting a successful Mongol Invasion of Japan. So why not an Aztec Invasion of Europe
The Mongols did have an invasion fleet, they did reach Japan, they did not succeed in establising a foothold before a disaster destroyed (most of) the fleet.
Why would it be difficult to accept that it could have succeeded? And why would you compare it to an entirely fictional Aztec invasion? But that is not how CA is going to put them into the game. The previews show that America is a source for resources and to get it you need to defeat the Aztecs.

[sapi]

I think the problem isn't that people want the game to play out exactly as history did. It's that many people (myself included) want to play Medieval:Total War, rather than Age of Colonies: Total War. It's a game about the middle ages (and that happened in Europe, and some of Africa and Asia), and I don't want any distractions that risk lessening that experience.

Ajax
You can always ignore that feature and focus on the war in Europe; it'll still be a good game even if you dont' like one feature...

[Trax]

I really dont think that the Aztecs will only be ther for the Spanish. I´m sure every faction who has high enough naval development level can sail over there.

[Samurai Waki]

Technologically speaking though, there would've been as much a chance that Aliens would invade Europe in the medieval ages, then the Aztecs being capable of crossing the Atlantic. If the Aztecs can't invade Europe, then I would be fine with the idea.

[Akka]

True but would you like them to cut the date back to 1430's or somthing
Yes oh yes !

I loathe the Renaissance era, and I hate gunpowder weapons. The less they are in the game, the better !

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Why couldn't the Aztecs cross the Atlantic.... besides the prevailing winds. With the current they would end up in North France/Britain

The Polynesians/pacific peoples crossed the pacific to the pre -Incas and Aztecs; they have numerous examples of their art and boats. Symbols and art of the ancient African cultures corresponds with symbols and art found in central and South America.

The world and even the medieval world did not revolve around Europe. Lot's of other places to go, explore take a whirl wind tour things are happening in other places at the same time, expand your horizons beyond Christian medieval rhetoric written by for and about.

Can’t wait till someone tries to bring those reed boats up against my caravel ….we ha excitement around the campfire stories tonight. Like one of my other threads lost to oblivion read, it’s a game about your destiny, play it, live it, make it.

Well bye

Disclaimer: all in good humour if you dislike, disagree, disbelieve, dis-humoured, disheartened, dishonored, dished by anything in the above post please display your dislike letter to my district office attached to a green 2006 Jaguar, with solid cherry wood interior, v12 engine, 7.1 Dolby surround sound stereo and a hot chick driving.

[Roberto]

[COLOR=black]The world and even the medieval world did not revolve around Europe. Lot's of other places to go, explore take a whirl wind tour things are happening in other places at the same time, expand your horizons beyond Christian medieval rhetoric written by for and about.]

Thank you some one agrees if its not in europe would you guys give CA a break because the aztects was not in fights with europe in the early medievil period does not mean they should be not in the game. They did not just appear when Spanish came did they and all you history geeks who cares if its not 100% historical go watch time team or something:wall:

[katar]

a knight in armour versus a dude wearing feathers and carrying a stone edged club.... :gah2: :furious3:

sounds like a load of !&*$! :wall:

[Xardas]

Gah!
But it'll look stupid, if European ships would cross the Atlantics so easily(As I think so). Moreover, as we all know, american indians, and aztecs, maya, incas e.t.c. didn't have no steel, nor horses, nor gunpowder.
That's why they have no chance against the Old World. And even speaking about the Aztecs conquering Europe is stupid.
Aztecs will flee if (they see horses, they hear steel armor and swords, they smell gunpowder).
P.S.
Historically, they resisted. About 300,000 against 300 Cortez's men. And they lost...their culture destroyed... ~:(

P.S.S.
They must be weak! The game is made not to retell the history, but it's up for us to change it.
Confidentially, I'd like to conquer the world controling England, by Edward The Black Prince, in 1356. :)

[Gurkhal]

Historically, they resisted. About 300,000 against 300 Cortez's men. And they lost...their culture destroyed...


I think you forgot that the Spanish were also backed up by some 200 000 allied warriors from local tribes.

[AquaLurker]

I think you forgot that the Spanish were also backed up by some 200 000 allied warriors from local tribes.

And diease introduce by the spanish...:skull:

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi all humour for your evening.......:laugh4:



Again you make the Medieval Europeans into supermen able to race across oceans in a single bound, faster than a speeding atlatl.

People had sailed the oceans for centuries already.

The Aztecs weapons were much harder than the Spanish armour, weapons, and bullets. The obsidian is so hard it would cut through the steal of the Spanish. The Aztecs were very technological advanced; again you are comparing apples to oranges.

The Aztecs faced an uprising of hundreds of thousands of people, along with the Spanish. It was disease and riot that destroyed the Aztecs not a Spanish bullet.

Central America is exactly what was important in the 16th century not Europe, not Asia. Ca has covered that ground thank some god they have imagination and are able to expand their horizons past MTW1 or else we would all be complaining how CA is just remaking the wheel but prettier.

Bring 'em on CA cause no Moor, Spaniard or Aztec is going to stop me and my Scots from building a villa on the coast of the Mediterranean. Cause I am rewriting history just because I can. And when I am done I am going to rewrite it in a different way…..

because I can and then I am getting a history book and rewriting the finding of a route to India by Malcolm McCabe the 3rd and his 3 Scottish ships the Heather, the Breandan, the Caointiorn. If you guys don't want the chocolate and coffee I'll take it all, Cause there is nothing better to entice the fair maidens than chocolate and keep them coming back for caffeine......LOL:laugh4:

[Voigtkampf]

Lads, you should concentrate less on the confrontation and more on the topic.


Discuss the game from the point of gameplay, but also restrain from comments like “those that insist on historical accuracy should go and read books instead playing this game”.

Now, to express my thoughts…

Medieval times are not a sole property of European and Asian countries, but the lands that you see when you start up a game of MTW have been the most important for the development of the world as we know it today.

I love and pay lots of respect to Australian aborigines or American Indians or Micronesian tribes, but that doesn’t mean I want them in the game called Medieval: Total War.

I am also not interested in fictional possibilities or the fact that someone somewhere has sailed to continent X before the mean ol’ Europeans did that.

I would love to see more factions from east, south and north of Europe being introduced, as well as from Asia, instead of introducing Aztecs that will probably appear at the very end of the game and will hardly improve the gameplay itself in any manner.

[Bob the Insane]

I have to admit that I really don't get what the problem is.

In reality the Aztecs were conquored by a european faction (with lots of local help by the looks of things) during the time period of the game.

It is entirely appropriate to include this in the later period of a Medieval game that is essentially about war and conquest...

How could a player of the Spainish faction guide his nation with faithful adhereance to RL history without the ability to explore and plunder central America during the closing portion of the game?

To be honest I would not be bothered if this feature was not available and I quite agree the resources could have been better spent detailing the european (especially the eastern european) factions.

But arguing that it is unrealistic or inappropriate to include an event which in reality had a definate impact on europe within the timeframe of the game is simply wrong.

[AquaLurker]

CA is trying a new concept for their games, can't say I am excited about the "Aztec idea" but its definately an interesting concept. Its hard to judge if this is a good move and we can flame the idea as much as we want but it may just turn out right. Coincidentally...my TV is showing a doc on Aztec right now :laugh4:

[Trax]

Historically, they resisted. About 300,000 against 300 Cortez's men. And they lost...their culture destroyed...

IIRc Cortes had ca 1500 soldiers and tens of thousands of local allies.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Actually Cortez on November 8th 1519 had only around 450 men when he entered Tenochtitlan, the Aztec capital. He had already conquered numerous tribes along the coast and interior. Killing 10,000's along the way. But only losing 50 to 100 men, and that is mostly to the jungles perils.

This is the famous incident where he left 200 men at the capitol then marched back to the coast captured the Spanish commander that was sent to arrest him for insubordination. He promised the troops gold and riches, returned to the capitol only to find it in the midst of battle. After days of fighting the Spanish retreated back to their ally’s lands.

The next year -1521 -Cortez returned, siege the capitol and after three months of a siege, he razed it to the ground killing anywhere from 40 to 100,000 Aztecs. Of course some were already deceased due to the siege conditions.

That was the end of the great Aztec empire and the beginning of a new age for the Spanish, Americas and Europe. War, Riches, Conquest. If huge battles, sieges, riches and glory are not fun, then I don’t know what is…I can't wait. Because from 1490's through to 1525 it is the path to the renaissance and the glory of the new world.

I think “me” Scots are giving up the villa in Spain and building a beach resort in the Caribbean islands, setting up a cruise caravel line and offering vacation time shares to the rest of Europe.

Come traverse the new ocean with Scots Sea Cruise,:captain:
Adventure unbounded
A strange land inhabited by even stranger people
Pearl white beaches, deep jungles, green seas

Sit on the beach and enjoy the sunset while being served by exotic wenches

All-inclusive: 12500 gold pieces 3 year round trip.

Taking bookings now for the November 2006/2009 season

[Xardas]

Read some history books Mr. Tallinn. 300 men of Cortez sailed to America, not only warriors, but all together. He had support from Cuba. But in the Battle Of Tenochitlan he had 300 men and the Tlakskala tribes as his allies. There're hundreds of stories telling that 16 Conquistadors defeated hundreds of Aztecs. Again, Aztecs had wooden swords with rocks in 'em. Thay had no metal at all. And thus, no armor.

P.S.
Talking about the game, it would be much better expanding the map to the south and east...

[NodachiSam]

Good post, voigtkampf

~:cheers:

I know if I find the Aztecs annoying I'll just mod them out. I really don't know why they didn't just go further east with the map. Maybe even to India.

[sephodwyrm]

If they include the Americas and Azteks, they should include naval battles.

[Bob the Insane]

If they include the Americas and Azteks, they should include naval battles.


~:confused:

Beacuse of all the large naval battles between the Spainish and the Aztecs?

:dizzy2:

[Sykotyk Rampage]

ya 100's of reed boats crushing the Spanish armada....conquering Spain, King Montezuma wishes to sacrifice Europeans to the gods.

Must build more reed boats.

edit: I am being serious, I hope CA lets me build thousands of reed boats and sail, like the polynesians in the Pacific, to invade Spain, best defence is the best offence....or something like that...lol

[dagiz]

well considering that the "new world" was discovered before the ending of the game and was really a huge deal, I have no issues with it being in the game.

global colonization really started to pick up after that, at least I think it did. And there is no arguement that a handful of men in armor could handle the aztecs, but what makes it interesting is that there will be huge numbers of aztec warriors coming at you. as you play - I would want to see if I could duplicate what cortez did (minus the disease) and take on about the entire empire with only 300 or so men.

either way, it should be interesting.

[Servius]

The Aztecs were a joke. Still fighting with pointy sticks, sharp rocks...they never even made it to the bronze age, and they're supposed to pose a credible challenge to rifles, heavy cavalry, war galleons...oh, that's right, they didn't.

I'm not sure what the point is. The Aztecs in the middle ages had the military technology of the britons in Roman times. If they wanted to link in a semi-formidable foreign chalenge, Japan anyone? MTW+STW ftw!!!

[Voigtkampf]

I'm not sure what the point is. The Aztecs in the middle ages had the military technology of the britons in Roman times. If they wanted to link in a semi-formidable foreign chalenge, Japan anyone? MTW+STW ftw!!!

In words of cool, logical Vulcans: "That would be agreeable." :vulcan:

[Akka]

The Aztecs weapons were much harder than the Spanish armour, weapons, and bullets. The obsidian is so hard it would cut through the steal of the Spanish. The Aztecs were very technological advanced; again you are comparing apples to oranges.

:inquisitive:

:laugh4:

Really...

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Really.......yes

[pyradyn]

The aztecs were a big problem for the spanish they were not push overs and they may not have had steel but sharpend obsidion is good enough to kill a man. Plus mexico which i am in atm is full of jungles name the last Tropical Jungle battle you had in a TW game? The only reason the spanish conqured them so fast is because of plague look at Americans trying to conqure the Apaches it took forever. The aztecs were the bigest empire in Mesmo-America and Mesmo-America is one of the most wanted areas at the time Europe was begging to run dry and boring but the Tropics and exotics of this land brings much wealth

[AntiochusIII]

Really.......yesErm...no.

The Aztecs, you see, have a little different concept of warfare than the Europeans. They'd rather capture prisoners than slaughter them all: after all, what about the Gods?

While the Spanish simply shoots 'em all "those savages."

And steel armor, Spanish steel armor, to be exact, CAN stop an obsidian attack. Some later armors could stop bullets, dammit.

pyradyn: you have misconceptions about the history in this hemisphere. The natives who met the Spanish never stood a chance in realistic terms. In the best of luck, they might defeat an expedition or two by sheer overwhelming number in ambush--a luxury the Aztecs never afforded. But Spain, you see, was militarily powerful, even in European terms. So it's like "pwnage." Now, I didn't even count the dastardly genocidal germs into the equation.

The reason the Apaches had been so successful is because of their skillful strategy and bravery, and European horses and guns--introduced first by the Spanish--and the territories which are rugged and easy for many an ambush, and their nomadic nature similar to the old days which horse archers massacred slower, lumbering armies of the civilized kingdoms of the ancient world. Besides, they knew the Americans. They knew how to fight them. The Aztecs? ... don't.

They fought a guerrilla war. How can the Aztecs do that? Tenochtitlan was not ever-moving.

In other words, I am absolutely wary of the possible major historical inaccuracy ala Age of Conquerors (AOK II Expansion) in which my jaguar warrior, apparently armed with stone-age weapon, beat the Spanish conquistadors with guns to death. :no: After all, why are they in there if they stood no chance whatsoever, like it was historically?

And if anyone want to bother use that old "we're creating our own history here" argument again, I have this to say: Hastings could've been a Saxon victory; Attila might've had Aetius' skull at Chalons; the Byzantine empire stood a chance at Manzikert, or even against the mighty Islamic tide in the early days; and even Thermopylae might've been won by some brilliant luck or strategy. But guess what? The native Americans never stood a chance. And why would I want to fight in-game someone that never stood a chance of even scratching me?

The New World Discovery was a Renaissance event onwards, NOT a Medieval event. It's a world apart. ~;)

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Well thank you for your input Antiochusiii but please let me give you my theory……..mmmmm did I tell you I have a theory.....mmmmm it is my theory......hummm yes a theory...ammmhum

Point 1

The Europeans did as the Aztecs; slaughter, capture, crucify, and eradicate whole cities and civilizations in the name of their god. They also did over the millenniums capture for slavery, games, torture, and yes sacrifice in the name of god and deities. It was the different style of individual warrior battle that was the Mexica’s downfall, and the suppression of tribes that caused them to rebel, small pox, starvation, not Spanish guns and technology. I think diplomacy could be used also.

So the juxtaposition of European warfare and Aztec is the same albeit with different technologies.

The Spanish actually did not shoot that many “savages”. They did not have the resources –supplies- to just slaughter and shoot every “savage”. They were only savages to the Europeans. The Mexica’s (which is the name they called themselves) were very advanced and had the same technologies;

Architecture that rivaled Rome, and Egypt’s pyramids, agriculture, crop rotation, advanced cultivation, fertilization, irrigation, livestock farms, fish farms, mathematics and a measurement system much like the metric system of today, linguistics, trade, writing, philosophy, astronomy, a calendar system that was as accurate as the one we use now, performing arts, music, culture, sculpture, population that rivaled the capitals of Europe, aqueducts, latrines in buildings, garbage collection, “factories”, merchant markets, public baths, public schools, roads, a system of communications the list goes on and on….

In my view this was not a “savage society”, they were only savage because they did not follow the Christian religion and for this they were persecuted for their religious believes. North American Aboriginals and the South American Aboriginals were also forced into religious slavery.

The Spanish befriended 100,000’s of the “new” civilizations, years before they even advanced to Tenochtitlan. In the Central Americas there were millions of people, over 100,000’s in the capital cities (Tenochtitlan was a conglomerate of many cities) alone. Of which Tenochtitlan had anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000. Just this city alone is larger than most of the European major cities at the time. By 1580 disease, small pox, typhus had reduced the population of the Americas by more then 80%.

So if the Spanish had 1,000,000 rounds of ammunition with them I guess they simply could have “shot all those savages”.

Point 2

Well actually obsidian on the Mohs hardness scale ranges from 5 to 5.5 and has been found in some areas of Mexico to 6. Spanish steel from 500 years ago well advanced for its day because of cold tempering, (heating to blue cooling instantly then heating and cooling repeatedly) rates 4 to 5.5 on the Mohs scale. The blades of the macquahuitl -“swords”, tepoztopilli -“spears”, arrows. Atlatls –“throwing darts” were well documented as having pierced the armour of the Spanish. Again it was not the Spanish that did the fighting but disease, rebellion, starvation, diplomacy.

Point3

Maybe the Aboriginals never stood a chance, but I am sure anxious to re-write history because it sure is going to be fun. This is why I play this game for the joy of creating my own history.

You are entitled to your own theories these just happen to be mine and mine alone…Ann Elk…mmmm I have a theory….hummmm …it is mine…did I tell you I have a theory.:laugh4:
(Note: Monty Python)

[Mithrandir]

Please stay on topic : Do you like the fact that Aztec are included,yes or no?

For thorough historical discussions, visit the Monastery on this same board.

Another reminder : Do not be sarcastic towards other members, we're running a flame-free,troll-free forum.Discuss the topic, show sources do not indulge in posts how silly someone is to think a certain thing just because he has other sources.

So back on topic:

I like it! No matter what history tells, it will bring diversity. And much more important : We dont even know whow they will be implemented right ? Whether they will be on the map,if they will only show up in historical battles etc.

-Mithrandir.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Ok I agree, I like the aztecs, if you can't tell by all my absurd posts. Sorry for history rhetoric...lol

[Lord Adherbal]

I hope we won't be seeing the aztec faction in every other MP game. That'd seriously decrease the medieval atmosphere and realism. So they should atleast be seriously underpowered.

[Zenicetus]

And if anyone want to bother use that old "we're creating our own history here" argument again, I have this to say: Hastings could've been a Saxon victory; Attila might've had Aetius' skull at Chalons; the Byzantine empire stood a chance at Manzikert, or even against the mighty Islamic tide in the early days; and even Thermopylae might've been won by some brilliant luck or strategy. But guess what? The native Americans never stood a chance. And why would I want to fight in-game someone that never stood a chance of even scratching me?

I agree about the military imbalance. Cortez was very lucky, on many levels, to accomplish what he did as a first contact expedition. But even if he had failed, the end-result would have been the same. I do think CA will allow the Aztecs to "scratch you" in the game.... if only by sheer force of numbers, and maybe terrain benefits (attack bonus in jungles, maybe?).

However, I don't think this is really about fighting the Aztecs, but more about making the endgame strategy more complex and interesting. The faction that takes the New World will presumably gain a large economic/trade benefit. So, do you divert resources into a tech tree that allows you to make a grab for the New World yourself? Do you go out of your way to block a competitor before they get there? Can you afford *not* to take the riches of the New World, and still conquer Europe and the Med? In that sense, I think it will make for a fun endgame.

The only way this could be a negative, to my mind, is if CA rigs the campaign so that taking the New World is mandatory to win the game, instead of optional.


The New World Discovery was a Renaissance event onwards, NOT a Medieval event. It's a world apart. ~;)

Right, but as others have mentioned, this could also be a hook into a later expansion pack, with conflicts between European powers in the Caribbean/Central/South America.

Pirates of the Caribbean:Total War? :)

[Lord Adherbal]

The only way this could be a negative, to my mind, is if CA rigs the campaign so that taking the New World is mandatory to win the game, instead of optional.

and the fact that they're probably investing a lot of time into something that most of us don't like or don't care about. Time that could be invested in more important stuff such as polishing and unit balancing.

[Zenicetus]

Adherbal']and the fact that they're probably investing a lot of time into something that most of us don't like or don't care about. Time that could be invested in more important stuff such as polishing and unit balancing.

I don't know.... it's basically just a reskinned Barbarian faction, right? Nothing fancy like cavalry or artillery.

The one place where it will soak up resources will be in the terrain modeling (if they do it right), and that won't take away too much from other parts of the game, I don't think. The places where I'm personally hoping to see improvement are in areas like strategic and battlefield AI, better unit control, better diplomacy, etc. I don't think modeling some new Central American 3D terrain will take away from those elements. The guys doing AI programming usually aren't the same guys who are pushing pixels to build 3D models for a game.

[Sarmatian]

Aztecs were advanced nation but not in the military way. They don`t stand a chance against any european faction. Including aztecs would just hurt the atmosphere of the game. Expecially because the time when new world started to bring wealth and to boost the economy of spain is after the end of the game. Aztecs would bring more variety to the game, that is true, but if that is the only reason, we could include aliens too. We could say that the aliens (3 of them) landed in europe in 1530 with grand plans for conquest of earth and you have to stop them (using your numerical superiority) before they launch nuclear missiles and destroy everything. For all mankind!!!!!!!!:laugh4:

[Mithrandir]

Aztecs were advanced nation but not in the military way. They don`t stand a chance against any european faction. Including aztecs would just hurt the atmosphere of the game. Expecially because the time when new world started to bring wealth and to boost the economy of spain is after the end of the game. Aztecs would bring more variety to the game, that is true, but if that is the only reason, we could include aliens too. We could say that the aliens (3 of them) landed in europe in 1530 with grand plans for conquest of earth and you have to stop them (using your numerical superiority) before they launch nuclear missiles and destroy everything. For all mankind!!!!!!!!:laugh4:


I think you've just discovered the expansion pack...

[Alim]

I could live with the Aztecs being an unplayable faction that emerges when the Americas are discovered. Despite having a vastly superior military the Europeans would only be able to send a limited number of people in the expedition to Mexico and would be vastly outnumbered by the Aztecs and so the loss of every man would matter. This would present an interesting tactical and strategic challenge, especially if the supplies are factored into the game. However it seems somewhat pointless if an expedition to conquer the New World could only be launched in the last 10 years of the game. Most games don't last that long, and even if they do it is far too late to make any differrence at all to the outcome of the game. It should be possible to sail to the New World much earlier, maybe mid or late 1400's.
However, I can't see how the Aztecs can be made playable in SP. Even if CA gives them units that can fight the Europeans 1 on 1 (and throw all history books out the window), they can only sail to Europe towards the end of the game. Even if the game is broken into differrent eras like the original Medieval, it would still give the Aztec player many years with nothing to do.

[HighLord z0b]

I have no idea why CA thought this was a good idea when they could have just expanded the map east into Mongolia, India and the entire Middle East. I would have loved to see China as well, but I can understand if that was too much work. It seems completely out of place, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time but will mean they will spend too much time on a faction few people will be that interested in when they could have commited themselves to sticking to Europe doing it properly.

Question- could a Viking faction get there in the early period in longboats?

[HarunTaiwan]

The Aztecs actually defeated the Spanish a couple times.

During the time period, gunpowder weapons were still expensive.

The Spanish often used lots of local troops and their own armor, crossbows, horse etc. served as force multipliers.

[Sarmatian]

I have no idea why CA thought this was a good idea when they could have just expanded the map east into Mongolia, India and the entire Middle East. I would have loved to see China as well, but I can understand if that was too much work. It seems completely out of place, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time but will mean they will spend too much time on a faction few people will be that interested in when they could have commited themselves to sticking to Europe doing it properly.

Question- could a Viking faction get there in the early period in longboats?

Only in theory. Vikings traveled over british isles and iceland, where they had the chance to restock and replenish their water and food supplies. It is not impossible that they could sail along the coast south until they reach aztec empire but it is highly unprobable. They would be forced to resupply in a land completely unknown to them, and not to mention that taking that route and going back would take a veeeeery long time. No, before caravel-type ships it was impossible to establish a constant link with the new world, and therefore impossible to colonize the new world.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

L'Anse-aux-Meadows one of the Viking settlements in Newfoundland Canada dated to between 860 and 1060. 500 years before Columbus. They also had other settlements and explored into Nova Scotia, Maine, New England. So yes it was quite possible they could have explored farther south. It seems they never did, or we will never know.

Can't wait to sail my Scots into the gulf of Mexico.

[Dooz]

How can this not be a good thing? It's something new. Enjoy! Who cares if it's not perfect. It can be modded to come close! Sure the map could have extended East instead, but that's easily moddable once again, and it would have been the obvious choice. Personally I'm excited about this. Opens up new and interesting options and such...

[Sarmatian]

L'Anse-aux-Meadows one of the Viking settlements in Newfoundland Canada dated to between 860 and 1060. 500 years before Columbus. They also had other settlements and explored into Nova Scotia, Maine, New England. So yes it was quite possible they could have explored farther south. It seems they never did, or we will never know.

Can't wait to sail my Scots into the gulf of Mexico.

Yes, but is there a single viking-descendant living in Canada today? What happened with all those settlements? They didn`t last. With those type of ships it was impossible to a establish a permanent settlement. Only in the 15th century did the possibility for colonization of america arrived, and even then it was very slow and difficult.

[ghostcamel]

It can't hurt to broarden the game; if you don't like it just conquer europe first...


I hope there are more factions than just the Aztecs in the Americas, even if they arent playable. It would give it some more depth i would think. Plus it would keep them from being totally inactive, waiting for invasion.

How could this possibly be bad? Maybe theyll have two different types of 'water' or vessels. Deep ocean or coastal. Im not sure what the limitation was historically but if it was made sufficently difficult to achieve it could be very cool. Besides, they havent said how far east the map goes. I would be happy if they opened up Africa further also.

Again, how can it be bad? In theory, its good. Of course you can screw up anything. But.... MW2 looks fantastic visually and nearly every featureset has been improved above RTW.

MW2 still has the possiblilty of sucking, but looking over previews and listening to CA over time about how theyve changed production since RTW. I kinda have high hopes for it. ~:cool:

[King Yngvar]

With those type of ships it was impossible to a establish a permanent settlement. Only in the 15th century did the possibility for colonization of america arrived, and even then it was very slow and difficult.

It could have been done, but there were simply too few people interested in moving to the new world at that time. The "colony" only lasted for a few years, had it been properly organized by a kingdom it might have happened, if that kingdom had any reason to flee that is.

[Craterus]

Yes, but is there a single viking-descendant living in Canada today?

I'd bet that there is. There were Viking descendants in Britain, and some Americans/Canadians are descendants of the British.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi everyone…. it’s sunny here and –36 Celsius, with a load of snow that blocks my view out a second story window………

America should be in the game. When the game starts the Vikings still had colonies and contact with Native Americans –the Beothuk natives in Newfoundland and other Islands along the coast.


https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sykotykrampage/viking1.jpg
Viking Village in Newfoundland Canada

The Viking colonies are dated from around 780 to 1210 almost 500 years of colonization. That is just the one colony in Newfounland. Artifacts have been found and are carbon dated and cross-matched with other Norse artifacts from the main colonies in Iceland/Greenland/Norway.

So I believe the whole east coast of America should be in the game from Greenland down to the Gulf of Mexico. Exploration and expansion was a part of Medieval World and I am excited to even get a small part of real history so I can skew it to my view of the world…………


https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/sykotykrampage/vikinginside.jpg
a smoky long house -villa in every Mexican village run by Scots men with an attitude and great tans.

I am taking bookings now………..

Also a note; most Canadians are not descendants of Britain, there is a large amount, but the French have a larger per capita decadency lineage. The Dutch, Germanic also make up a very large part.

enjoy your weather now ..........because you could have snow (please note if you like snow ignore this)

[Craterus]

Also a note; most Canadians are not descendants of Britain, there is a large amount, but the French have a larger per capita decadency lineage. The Dutch, Germanic also make up a very large part.

I was toying with putting some. But for some reason, I settled on putting most. No idea why, I edited it anyway.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi Craterus,

You didn't have to edit it. I was really just adding to your comment. My mother was born in Walsall so my brothers and I are some of the people you are talking about. Which, if I could I would move to England so my descendents could repopulate Britain with Canadians that are decended from Britian....lol Do you get snow

cheers

[Craterus]

Snow in Britain happens, the further north you get. I live in the south and I haven't seen snow in two years.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Excellent, no snow south but snow north, all the more reason to move my Scots from Britain into Central America. Saves building villas in Spain. Just have to figure out how........It would be great..... Scotish speaking Mexicans serving drinks at my villa. I believe that this is a good thing. Now that the vikings have found the way I am expecting to get this done sooner than later. Of course, now I just need CA to cooperate with my plan. Or mod it to my liking.......

[Sarmatian]

I'd bet that there is. There were Viking descendants in Britain, and some Americans/Canadians are descendants of the British.

:wall: Yes but they came after 15th century. A few centuries after... Don`t be so literal. How can I put this so that everybody understand? Discovery of america by the vikings didn`t have any impact on the course of history.

[Hurin_Rules]

I have to agree it would have been far better to include China or India in the game than the Aztecs. It just doesn't seem to fit the time. The Americas were only discovered at the end of the Middle Ages, and the great campaigns of conquest happened after the period had ended and the Renaissance had begun. The Americas had no real impact on Europe until after the Middle Ages.

I guess including the Aztecs will help Sega's sales in Mexico, but other than that, I can't really see any good reason for including them, other than eye candy.

[Zenicetus]

I have to agree it would have been far better to include China or India in the game than the Aztecs. It just doesn't seem to fit the time. The Americas were only discovered at the end of the Middle Ages, and the great campaigns of conquest happened after the period had ended and the Renaissance had begun. The Americas had no real impact on Europe until after the Middle Ages.

I guess including the Aztecs will help Sega's sales in Mexico, but other than that, I can't really see any good reason for including them, other than eye candy.

It might not make much sense if you consider MTW2 as a standalone game, but it makes a lot of sense if they're planning an expansion pack that starts either in 1530 or a bit later. In other words, it's probably a "teaser."

That said, I don't know how interesting an expansion pack for 1530+ would be, if they don't seriously beef up the naval combat. They don't necessarily need a full tactical naval combat module (which would be a separate game in itself, if it was done well). But I don't think they can get away with the current naval combat model if they're covering that period.

[Watchman]

I kinda wonder of how they're going to impålement it in practice, and more to the point make it challenging without excessively artificial constraints. Put this way. Let's say I'm playing the Turks and have by the point I hit the required tech hurdle turned the Med into a "Turkish lake", and have the Iderian peninsula under my control. My empire has gotten sufficiently rich and powerful to be largely secure from its foes and afford major adventures if need be. Then Captain Sinbad sails back from his sea trip to China and tells me there's a whole friggin' continent of weird Stone Age pagans with way too much gold for their own good in the way, and I decide it is only good and proper to deliver salvation to these poor heathens which in practice means the Janissaries and Sipahis get on board a major fleet and sail off to play gunboat diplomacy. Or my successor, who happens to be of the zealous and adventurous type his precessador wasn't, decides to go on a major jihad that way mainly because he can and the damn Franks are too obstinate.

Which ought not to be too difficult. When you have Stone Age gear to put against the sort of hyper-evolved ironmongery Late Medieval armies are kitted with by default, numbers and even courage and discipline simply stop mattering. In several instances immensely outnumbered groups of Spaniards in comparatively light gear were perfectly capable off fighting off full-out native armies and suffered only minor casualties in the process; among the heavy cavalry (who were very few in number, but had some very disproportionate effects) death by riding accidents was probably more common than from enemy action...

In short, how to credibly limit the amount of troops the player (or AI) can ship over given the way TW game engine doesn't exactly bother simulating the causes and conditions that kept the historical attemptees from sailing over in force, and/or make the undeniably badly outmatched Aztecs a serious tactical challenge for late-game armies ?

[Ragnor_Lodbrok]

Hey, it's great. I can mod my little campaign, start searching for the feathered serpent and conquer Europe along the way.:laugh4:

[spanakoryzo]

Hi to ya all! Just a new guy to the forum trying to state my opinion. I think that we're talking about two different issues here. For the history prone part of the game I agree that the Americas don't really fit in. But when it comes to pure gameplay, it will be great. It's going to be fun, taking over Mexico with the Moors (or anyone else) and I bet that most of us have thought about this even before the MTW:2 announcement. I know I used to at least!:laugh4:

[Asean]

I would prefer they included the Mongols, so I can invade and conquer all of Europe.:laugh4:

[ByzantineKnight]

They should include the Aztecs, conquring the New World was an improtant part of late Medieval history, and if the AI gets there first (unlikely) it might give them the boost they need to provide a threat

[DisruptorX]

Thank you some one agrees if its not in europe would you guys give CA a break because the aztects was not in fights with europe in the early medievil period does not mean they should be not in the game. They did not just appear when Spanish came did they and all you history geeks who cares if its not 100% historical go watch time team or something:wall:

Because they are/were a pretty much insignificant power, and there are more important and/or cooler non-European factions to be added, such as Africans and Asians. You know, factions that actually were in contact with the European and Middle-Eastern factions the game revolves around.

I don't really see the point of adding a stone age level faction from the middle of nowhere in, when there are so many more interesting factions that could have been added instead.

I don't really care, though. As long as they just sit there in America, I'm fine with it. They should make for fun multiplayer battles, too.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I think cavalry has to be limited in the new world as well as armoured troops. Most spanish troops often prefered to wear lighter padded wear in the intense heat of the america's. They should add a secret resource so units can be restricted to provinces and also forts should be the only castle type buildings you can erect in the america's. The troop limit is vital if the game is to be balanced especially in that theatre.

[poo_for_brains]

I don't think the composition of your army should be controlled, although I think heavily armoured troops should have some kind of pe nalty when fighting in hot locations (movement speeds or fatigue perhaps). Also, upkeep costs should increase in the new world, making it prohibitively expensive to take across too many elite troops.
I think it should also be hugely expensive to sponsor an expedition to the new world, so that you must conquer the whole of the new world with one or two shiploads of men, instead of arriving with 10 full stacks of men.

[hoetje]

why would it be bad?I'm curious how ca will introduce the americas to the campaign map and I can't wait to exploit them and steal all their treasures:P
as soon as i can,I will invade the americas and use their treasures to expand my empire in europe/asia:P

[hoetje]

why would it be bad?I'm curious how ca will introduce the americas to the campaign map and I can't wait to exploit them and steal all their treasures:P
as soon as i can,I will invade the americas and use their treasures to expand my empire in europe/asia:P
Although it would also be a cool idea to have africa and india involved :P:dizzy2:

[Horatius]

They should have included the Kingdom of Jerusalem instewad.

The way it should work is the Crusade Provinces you take in the Middle East goes to the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and the Crusader units you recruited for the expedition like Templars and Fanatics and Knights of Saint John shold automatically go to the kingdom (along with the ability to recruit and retrain them).

[WarMachine420]

That's actually a very good idea :2thumbsup: The Portuguese started exploring the African coast in the early 15th century, almost 100 years before the game's ending date. Plus they opened a path to India with Vasco da Gama quite early as well. Actually it's much more logical to expand to include Africa and India before even thinking about expanding the map to include America, but I guess the America stuff is made for the popular 12 years old market, might attract more Spanish and American players who knows?

Right...because Spain and America have nothing but 12 year olds living in them right?

African coast? Bunch of ignorant half breeded sand creatures running around learning how to cover up their own dung.

^ about as ignorant as what you said.

[econ21]

I can't find the post you quote in this thread. It certainly has not been posted in the last few months. Regardless, please avoid flaming others.

[Rex_Pelasgorum]

I dont mind if Azteks came in. Anyway, i would like to see a Valahian faction in the game... necesarily... :2thumbsup:

Would be nice then to go whith my Valahians to hunt down some Aztecs :charge:

[Orb]

I haven't read through the thread but I really hope that CA don't do what I expect them to do with the Aztecs - 2HP, average armour, high attack troops.

I'd also rather have Africa (MAKURIA!!!)

[WarMachine420]

I can't find the post you quote in this thread. It certainly has not been posted in the last few months. Regardless, please avoid flaming others.

Apologies...I can just smell anti-americanism a mile away and take pride in attacking it where it is found. sorry.

[Kourutsu]

Attacking the Aztecs will be so fun.

Jaquar Warriors VS Seventy trebuchets(Flaming Missles On)

What a sight...Cannons would be more effective. But, not as fun.

[octavian]

It's easy just think AOE ;)

Oh god, that's scary... :wall:

[NeoSpartan]

I think it will be AWESOME. But agian it depends on how it will be implemented.

[Hepcat]

I like the idea, I am looking forward to discovering the New World, and hopefully playing as the Aztecs and invading the Old World. Although that wouldn't have been possible in reality it is still a game. The point of it is that you CAN change history. It would be stupid if you could only defeat the nations that you historically defeated, how fun would that be?

[Dracula(Romanian Vlad Tepes)]

There are o lot of options for this game and the map.I will show you 2 options:
1)Why you don't like America because when America is discovered the Europe is not so medieval anymore.So they should make America bigger to include other factions from america.It would be fun to play as azteks an fight for supremacy in america and after that to construct ships and take europe.
2)They should make america bigger and add the asia and africa.I think this would be the best solution even the game will be finished in 2007.

[hoetje]

Are you nuts?:P
i wanna play this game 3th November as said.
I don't wanna wait any longer:P
Besides,if you include all of those continents,I think the campaign map will be too big and it won't be fun to play anymore.You don't have an overview of the campaign map , in other words,when you include the entire world in the game :inquisitive:

[Vuk]

I always try to do what some people/civilizations didn't do but there's standard. When playing Byzantine I always wipe out Turks first. It's not historically correct but Byzantine could wipe out Turks. The 'Americans' didn't even try set up expeditions beyond atlantic how could they invade Europe?

Maybe I'm just nitpicking or whatever. I admit I'd probably try to invade Europe when I play as Aztecs but it kinda defeats the purpose of basing a game on historical events then.



When the Spanish fought the aztecs, the had more of a problem with trickery and being poisoned than with enemy troops. I call to mind one battle in which 200 or so spaniards defeated an army of 400 thousand Aztecs. To make the Aztecs a military power would be a complete transgression of history. I think the Americas should be more of pot of gold for the Europeans than a continent of new nations to conquer. That's just me.

[hoetje]

When the Spanish fought the aztecs, the had more of a problem with trickery and being poisoned than with enemy troops. I call to mind one battle in which 200 or so spaniards defeated an army of 400 thousand Aztecs. To make the Aztecs a military power would be a complete transgression of history. I think the Americas should be more of pot of gold for the Europeans than a continent of new nations to conquer. That's just me.
I think you are absolutely right :laugh4:

[Joeokar]

When the Spanish fought the aztecs, the had more of a problem with trickery and being poisoned than with enemy troops. I call to mind one battle in which 200 or so spaniards defeated an army of 400 thousand Aztecs. To make the Aztecs a military power would be a complete transgression of history. I think the Americas should be more of pot of gold for the Europeans than a continent of new nations to conquer. That's just me.
400 thousand aztecs ...... whats next 100 million aztecs where beaten by 16 drunken spaniards :laugh4: :laugh4:

[JR-]

i would have preffered Eurasia instead of Europe+New World.

[Bakma]

i would have preffered Eurasia instead of Europe+New World.

I agree with you it would be good if we would have central asia till china.
And also the timurids safavids and moghuls as playable factions.

I see on the map that the areas kaukasus arabia and north afrika are to big so if you conquer them it is like if you would conquer 4-5 areas from europa

[Bakma]

what i mean is europe plus central asia

[Orb]

Personally, I'd love Makuria (Orthodox Christian Nubia).

I think it would be far better done if they had different start dates (E.g. 1080, 1205, 1321, 1450) and you get to take the Aztecs as playable (with very weak troops compared to Europeans and a reform option to allow better troops if the in the last.

Also, I'd like to see Europeans competing to reach the new world, so the date of discovery (and strength of expedition) varied with the stability of Europe and thus the Aztecs would have more or less time to prepare.

Regardless, adding Nubia and giving a fluid Egyptian reform (Fatimid-Ayyubid, based on religion - Salah al-Din is a powerful Shi'a governor, worse infantry and archers, better and more numerous cavalry) with civil war included would be nice.

[Marius Dynamite]

It sounds like a good Idea to me but it depends on other things in the campaign. I don't want to be the only nation in Europe in the early 1300s because it was so easy and then send my huge armies to conquer the new world. Some competition home and abroad would be nice. I'm having trouble Imagining how the campaign map will look. Surely it will take several turns to reach the New world with one fleet. The Atlantic is big, how will the campaign map be laid out?

[Dan.o6]

I think the best part of having the Aztecs around will be trying out their units in custom battles :D

[Yun Dog]

erm I thought it was MEDIEVIL total war

not Conquestidors Total War

erm Chrstopher Columbus....

this game has lost the plot... AOE4 with RTW graphics engine

ppffft was thinking of buying it just to look at the graphics for 5 minutes... now Im thinking it will just make me very very angry :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no:

[hoetje]

Yunus , don't be so pessimistic omg :laugh4: