Wrath of Khan [Archive]

King of Atlantis

03-01-2006, 03:43

https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/136/premongolcopyx3qh.jpg
Well seing as this has started, ill post the little mod I have been gathering for some time now..

Anyways, the mod starts around 1204 and will hope to include that entire map;

Faction List:
Steppe: 4
Mongols
Kara Khitai(Black Khitan)
Kipchak Khanate
Volga-Bulgaria

China: 6
Jin Empire
Xi-Xia Empire
Song Empire
Dali Empire
Kingdom of Tibet
Koryo

Southeast Asia: 4
Annam
Kmer Empire
Pagan
Java

Islamic Empire: 5
Kwarezmian Shahdom
Ghurid Sultanate
Abbasid Caliphate
Ayyubid Caliphate
Rum Seljuks

India: 2
Chola Empire(southern India)
Bengal

Orthodox: 3
Republic of Novgorod
Byzantium
Georgia

Catholic: 5
HRE
Papacy
Poland
Hungary
Crusader States

We hope to represent the era accuratly, but aslo have all the other key ingrediants of a mod.

Team Forum:
http://www.war-arena.com/forums/index.php?showforum=30

Team Members:
Kscott-researcher
The Vandal-researcher
Mimirswell-researcher
brokenfingers-researcher
therussian-researcher
Sacred Legion(in dutch)-researcher

Gaus Draken-text
Fabolous-PR
Justinian-........
Lord Rahl- 2d-artist

Want to aid the team, just contact us. Research is key right now, we hope to be have the research stage done by MTW 2. Then we can begin on modding. The point of posting this is the hope to gain researchers, if your intrested PLEASE come help us, we need all the help we can get.

Thank you for your time,
King of Atlantis

dark_shadow89

03-01-2006, 08:12

Trajanus

03-01-2006, 08:26

I'm interested in joining your research team. How is it best to get in contact with you?

King of Atlantis

03-01-2006, 23:44

Include the Annamese (ancient Vietnam) in SE Asia instead of Java. The Annamese foiled the mongols 3 times when they tried to invade Annam, plus they conquered half of the Khmer empire sometime later, and were the overlords of the other SE Asian states (the other states paying tribute to them). They were vassals under Han China, but broke free around the time of the collapse of the Han dynasty.

Its either annam or Champa. From the preliminary research, Champa seemed to be the more dominant of the two. It is possible the roles will be reversed, its something that needs looking into.

I'm interested in joining your research team. How is it best to get in contact with you?

Got msn?

Mine is ksman@inbox.com, anyone wishing to discuss the mod can feel free to discuss it with me, were always happy to get new researchers :)

Mikeus Caesar

03-02-2006, 00:20

Wow, that's a bit ambitious.

If all goes well, i will look forward not only to MTW2, but to this also!

King of Atlantis

03-02-2006, 01:57

It is, no doubt, hence why we are starting now:laugh4: !

If it is like RTW, I can most handle the mapping, and units may not be to hard seing as we will have an open sharing policy(meaning any faction in anohter mod may use their units)

The problem arises in creating three new cultures(Southeast asia, India, and China) However, I think or team can manage.

Thanks for the support though :)

Trajanus

03-02-2006, 05:36

yep I got MSN I will add you cheers.

dark_shadow89

03-02-2006, 06:10

Its either annam or Champa. From the preliminary research, Champa seemed to be the more dominant of the two. It is possible the roles will be reversed, its something that needs looking into.

Actually, the Champa (or Chams) were conquered by the Annamese (during the few hundred years after Annamese independence from Chinese rule), and now their (Chams) decendants are sparsely populated around the SE areas of Vietnam.

The reason the Annamese were superior was due to their contact, servitude, and eventual independence from the Chinese, who brought more advanced technology to the Annamese during the 1000 years or so they (Annamese) were vassals.

The starting date of this mod is some 300 years after Annamese independence, and they were a powerful state in their own right (though obviously still paying tribute to the Chinese to prevent invasion) by this time.

Trajanus

03-02-2006, 07:00

I'm not sure the Chola are a good choice for Southern India for this mod though.

They collapse in 1279 after the death of their last King Rajendra Chola-III, and get absorbed into Pandya rule.

Also have a bit of knowledge on the 6 Chinese factions, and they all fall apart between 1230 and 1300 due to the Mongols. So I'm not 100% sure why you are starting at 1204, it just seems a little late and offers only the chance for Mongol conquest due to their superiority at this time. Please give me some feedback on this one KoA and let me know what you want me to research.

(I can do research on all Chinese and Mongol factions, but outside of that I'm mostly blocked due to the Great China Firewall! - they don't even allow wikipedia)

--------------------

Just to follow on this conversation, the Champa were defeated by the Annamese in 1472 and yielded most of their territory north of Da Nang then. The later fell to the Annamese completely in the 17th century. They dispersed into small impoverished minorities in S Vietnam, and a large prosperous colony in Cambodia.

DensterNY

03-02-2006, 19:11

Wow, another great mod in the works I can't wait... I'm so amazed by the level of talent and dedication that has gathered around this series and how much research and learning goes into these mods.

As for the Mongols, this should really be interesting because they were incredible warriors and were serious students of warface. I remember reading about how they constantly tinkered with their weaponry to make them more effective or for different goals.

For instance, the Mongols had dozens of different arrowheads and some would pierce armor, some would create a loud piercing whistle, some would mangle a man's body, some would carry poison, etc... I would if you guys could recreate this... hmmm, arrows that can cause morale penalties on your enemies, restrict their movements or reduce their attack/defensive values?

Oh, another interesting thing about this period is how the Mongols will begin as hordes/nomadic tribes and eventually as they began conquering other peoples they would assimilate their learning and technology. It was only after their invading Chinese territory that they gained siege engineers and could attack walled fortresses and cities.

King of Atlantis

03-02-2006, 23:08

@dark_shadow89
Thanks for the info, Annam will almost surely replace Champa.

I'm not sure the Chola are a good choice for Southern India for this mod though.

They collapse in 1279 after the death of their last King Rajendra Chola-III, and get absorbed into Pandya rule.

Intresting point, but the key is were they the most powerful in 1206.

The Ghurids actually virtually self-exploded in 1206. The ruler died and a major civil war occured. We will try to emulate this in the mod.

Also have a bit of knowledge on the 6 Chinese factions, and they all fall apart between 1230 and 1300 due to the Mongols. So I'm not 100% sure why you are starting at 1204, it just seems a little late and offers only the chance for Mongol conquest due to their superiority at this time. Please give me some feedback on this one KoA and let me know what you want me to research.

We actually decided on 1206, the year Temujin was declared Genghis Khan. Thus he only owns the northern steppe. If you refer to the map, they are far from superior. Conquest of the Tangut should not be extremely difficult, but the Jin, Song, and the rest should proof difficult.

Trajuns, i'll pm you tonight with work load, we currently have people doing the mongols and chinese, however, the work load is very large, thus you help would be greatly apreciated.

King of Atlantis

03-03-2006, 03:26

Trajanus

03-03-2006, 06:55

Indeed, sorry I was so interested I got involved before you gave me something to do. I'll get what I can for Tangut.

King of Atlantis

03-04-2006, 01:53

No prob, the interest initiative is much appreciated

Armor Update:

Gold Plate:
https://img47.imageshack.us/img47/7656/goldplate5pc.jpg
Chainmail:
https://img214.imageshack.us/img214/671/chain7go.jpg

Skinned by myslef, I think these could go good on some units :happy:

poirot

03-04-2006, 22:25

I can help you with the names of some Jin and Song provinces.

King of Atlantis

03-05-2006, 03:11

great, just join the team forum and post your findings :)

dark_shadow89

03-05-2006, 05:32

Ok, small update I have updated the map and faction list, Kyrgyz got the boot cause I forgot to leave room for rebels, Champa was replaced with Annam(found out annam was actually owned by Khmer at this time period.)

actually, Annam WAS NOT owned by the Khmers - they were simply warring neighbours, with the Khmer Empire crumbling at c.1500AD, after repeated attacks from Annamese and Siamese (Thai) armies. Khmers and Siamese both paid tribute to Annamese from about 1450's onwards, to prevent invasion, exactly the same way as Annamese paid tribute to teh Chinese.

I see on your current map that you gave all of Southern Vietnam to the Khmers. I suggest that area be left as belonging to unplayable faction, "Champa".

King of Atlantis

03-06-2006, 02:49

Sorry, meant to say Champa where owned by the Khmer, hence why the Champa's land is part of the Khmer. The map and faction list represent things right, I just misposted. If you could help us with some Southeast asia research that would be great, dont think we got anyone doing that yet.

dark_shadow89

03-06-2006, 07:57

Ok, I'll see what I can do. Also, if you want some Osprey scans, i'll send em to u, or post them.

Weebeast

03-06-2006, 09:39

dark_shadow89

03-06-2006, 11:54

Yes, but I don't really see the point of including the island nations in SE Asia, as they had virtually no contact/affect on teh Mongols.

Trajanus

03-06-2006, 14:35

Well they were invaded by the Mongols. The map is based around the conquests of the Mongols so it would seem viable to include them.

dark_shadow89

03-06-2006, 20:21

The Mogols invaded Malaya? I've never heard of this before. hmmm. nevermind then.

King of Atlantis

03-06-2006, 21:40

There was Srivijaya, an ancient Malay kingdom, controlled parts of modern Malaysia and northern Sumatra. It was conquered by Majapahit in 1365. Chola Kingdom campaigned hard against these guys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srivijaya

yep their included as Java, I simply called them that because I figured it would be easier for people to associate with that.

Well they were invaded by the Mongols. The map is based around the conquests of the Mongols so it would seem viable to include them.

He is correct, the succesfully repelled the invasions though(Course enviroment played to their advantage)

poirot

03-07-2006, 23:16

What about Japan? Surely you have to include Japan.

poirot

03-07-2006, 23:30

Ever played Genghis Khan IV? It is in the similiar fashion as the mod you propose, except without the MTW battle engine. The campaign map covers the enitre Euroasian continent, from Britain to Japan, as well as North Africa. It is produced by Koei.
There are four campaign eras:

1. 1189, Mongol faction with Genghis Khan, faction with Jamuka, faction with Wang Khan, Karakhitai Kingdom, Xi Xia Kingdom, Jin Empire, Song Empire, Koryo, Annam, Ghurids, 2 Japanese Shogunates, Khwaranian Shah, Ayyubids, Byzantines, Princes of Kiev, HRE, France, England, Scandanvia, Hungary, and Sicily, etc

2 1129, Mongol Empire with Ogedei Khan (along with Batu Khan, Hulegu, Tulei, Subudei, etc), dying Jin Empire, Song Empire, Koryo, Annam, Sultanate of Dehli, Japanese Shogunate, Ayyubids, Byzantines, Novograds, HRE, France, England, Scandanvia, Hungary, Milan, and Venice, etc

3. 1270, with Kublai Khan's Yuan Dynasty, Kaidu's Ogedei Khanate, Golden Horde, Abaqua's Ilkhanate, Chagatai Khanate, Koryo, dying Song Empire, Annam, Sultanate of Dehli, Japanese Shogunate, Mamlukes, Byzantines, Novograds, HRE, France, England, Scandanvia, Hungary, Milan, and Venice, etc

4. 1371, with Tamerlane's Empire in Samarkand, Ming Empire in China, Koryo/Choson, Japanese Shogunate, Annam, Sultanate of Delhi, Mamlukes, Byzantines, Ottomans, Golden Horde, Russians, Spanish, HRE, France, England, Hungary, Milan, Venice, etc

King of Atlantis

03-08-2006, 03:29

What about Japan? Surely you have to include Japan.

as of now, they will be replacing Tibet. The problem is that they will be alot of work to implement.

And thanks for the game recommendation, Ill have to try it out.

Trajanus

03-08-2006, 12:35

Ah good. Its good to have Japan in now my samurai will be able to invade Europe. :charge:

Prince Cobra

03-10-2006, 23:38

Just to put that in. You can put the simple Bulgarians, too. They had glamorous times from they were a major power and a rival of the byzantine states and of Hungary ( controlling Walachia, Moldavia (1185- about 70s years of XIIIth century), Bulgaria and from 1230 to 1246 large parts of what is now Greece). However the Mongol invasion put the end of that glamorous times and from 1241 to 1299 Bulgaria was in a permanent decline. Fortunately after that Bulgaria overcame the most of the results of the Mongol invasion.
P.S. I hope I didn't sound chauvenistic. Just trying to show the things what they are. And I hope you are not fed up with my posts about Bulgaria. :tomato:
Edited: because of one phrase that wasn't very gramatically correct

Asean

03-12-2006, 02:34

An expansion pack that would include the rest of Asia for Medieval Totalwar 2 would be an awesome idea for the developers. Imagine being the Mongols and conquering all of Asia, the Middle East and Europe... or imagine being the Vikings and doing the same to the world! WOW!