View Full Version : Uzbek-Khazak Khorde
cegorach
03-16-2006, 17:15
This thread will be used as the database for this faction for MTW 2 edition of the mod.
Cegorach :book:
This shall be very interesting as I know nothing about these guys... :book:
YanTraken
03-16-2006, 17:32
I know,I know!!:They were people from Uzbheki`stan and Khazak`stan who ride horses and the called themselves A horde:)There,all done.~;)
cegorach
03-16-2006, 17:39
Impressive work :laugh4:
Hehe with that skilled historian you will be finished in no time!! :laugh4:
beauchamp
03-17-2006, 07:03
Sweet! I learned about the Uzbeks when I did that gallon of Safavid reasearch.:book:
For sure, their capitol was either Merv or Hecat. Their armies were almost completely Mongol influenced, heavy shock cavalry and light horse archers. Their strength lay in their raiders and pillagers who would push across the Safavid border and basically raid, pillage and plunder etc.
After Nadir Shah deafeated them during his illustrious reign, they really didnt do much, and their claim to faim was how much they botherd the safavids and how they were conquered by the ruski's.
I think P&M should do an Afghan faction over an Uzbek, they were alot more influential (for Nadir Shah and the Mughals).
Just ask me if help is needed with reasearch
Uzbeks did very big conquest in time before Nadir Shah, in time of the mod The Uzbek empire had splited on 3 states.
Bukhara Emirate, Khiva khanate and Kokand khanate all ruled buy descendants of Mukhamed Shayboni that had create empire. Afghan was not any more significant in this matter, well if you look from influece on Sefevids obviously Afghans are closer and Mughals as well.
I not sure but were Afghan ruled by Mughals yet at time of begin of the mode time frame?
We could make Bukhara Emirate the faction while other two Uzbek states could be rebels, so player will have to first unit his father lands and kill his brothers before becomming significant player on the map.
As for troops, there is preview of some posible troops much more research tho needed.
Samarkand cavalry (heavy)
heavy cavalry armed with lance, sword, bow, Tajiks
don't will to die for uzbeks.
Bukharo cavalry (very heavy)
armored horse cavalry, armed with lance sword, bow, ethnicity Tajiks, not much discipline tho, don't will to die for uzbeks.
Egitlar
mounted, volountiers, loyal to the Khan, very good moral. (Egitlar means simply brave guys, usually detached group to perform dangerous task, they are not a unit normally, but I don't see any other method to represent them, records mentions general sending egitlar (brave guys) to hold the gate, to raise on the wall, to catch some one, to clush with enemy, they should be able to dismount to perform all that tasks.
Lashkar cavalry
Proffesional cavalry. disciplined, good armor, lance, sword, bow.
Lashkar infantry
Proffesional infantry, pike, bow, small shield, sword, chainmail armor.
Khan Saabraslar
Lighter than Bukhara but also armored horse cavalry, disciplined, very strong charge, lance, bow, sword, very good moral
Uzbek light cavalry
Leather armor, swords, small shields, bows, light and fast, very good horse archers.
Turfanzander
Mounted infatry, fight only dismounted, sword, musket, light armor, protected by large leather shields. ( should move on the strategy map with speed of cavalry, but fight only dismounted)
Turkestan millitia
No armor, roughly made spears with usual knifes fixed as spearhead, axe
Highland Tajiks
light armor, sword, shield, bow
Kazakh mercs
medium cavalry, light armor, lance, bow, mace. Very good horse archers, very fast, and very strong charge, but not very armored.
Tajik mercs
heavy cavalry equal to samarkand but more professional.
Night guards :
reginal troops, urban police.
light chainmail, spear, shield.
Khazakh Horde at the moment had very strong Khan Taukel it was much larger than Uzbek Horde. If you decide to bring it I can provide info on Khazakh troops. There will be less units tho, as they didt use mercs and regionals.
Sweet! I learned about the Uzbeks when I did that gallon of Safavid reasearch.:book:
For sure, their capitol was either Merv or Hecat.
That's the small branch of Afhgan Uzbeks, their major cities were
Khiva, Bukhara, Samarkand, Kokand. They were powerfull enough to fight huge Kazakh horde and to continously fight each other trying to unit Uzbek Empire again, and it's never happend till Russkies came, but first Russian expedition was destroyed tho.
Uzbeks were not tauching anyone just because of lack of unity, if player tho in game will manage to unite all Uzbek provinces, they will be dangeours rival as where from begin. Don't forget they crushed Timurids and Mugals with just 15000 strong army, even Great Babur didn't manage to defeat them even once. It's bad lack that Mukhamed Shayboni was killed by Ismail Shah and lost his life while being still very young.
cegorach
03-17-2006, 11:12
Khazaks would be useful as well, we can always select something for local rebels or mercenaries :2thumbsup:
cegorach
03-17-2006, 11:13
BTW any images to show the soldiers you have described - you can repeat those from the NTW forum...:inquisitive:
BTW Emire of Bukhara was considered protector of Islam in whole Central Asia, and control quite big lands.
Always left to right
Bukhara faudal(left) and Kashgar Nuker (right)
http://www.varvar.ru/arhiv/slovo/images/turkestanskie_dospehi1.jpg
Uzbek elite cav, and Bukhara prince
http://www.varvar.ru/arhiv/slovo/images/turkestanskie_dospehi2.jpg
Samarkan cav, Kirgiz merc
http://www.varvar.ru/arhiv/slovo/images/turkestanskie_dospehi3.jpg
Turkestan milita, Kazakh merc captain
http://www.varvar.ru/arhiv/slovo/images/turkestanskie_dospehi4.jpg
cegorach
03-17-2006, 11:39
Good, if you have more - soldiers, armour, weaponry, even architecture please post it.
In addition as many unit names as possible should be in local languages - so try to find the right translations, please Arman :2thumbsup:
cegorach
03-17-2006, 11:41
And what was the state of all those countries around 1572 - most likely this will be the starting date for MTW 2 edition ?? :book:
beauchamp
03-17-2006, 16:57
How did you find all of that history???
I looked everywhere for Uzbek history and came up with nichts...
I look in Russian sites :-) they obviosly have more history about Uzbekistan which was part of Soviet Union. Very few info available there as well, for example I can't find real details about history of those 3 Uzbek city states, and map, still looking for it. What I don't have also is picture of Turfanzander, althrough I can imagine how it should look like.
Other good source is Babur Name this is memories of Babur but they give only earlier period info.
The picture above I have found on completelly stange site dedicated god knows what but they have a lot of central asian miniatures there. Those pictures are reconstruction from Bukhara miniatures and armor samples from Moscow armory museum. Very good info, pitty it doesn have anything else at all.
When Babur was fighting Uzbeks they crushed him completelly within few minutes he had feared panically during the rest of his life, and his memories are full of hate to them. In the battle he engaged he mention that they use purelly mongolian tactics. He didn't got what happend even, he led his Samarkand cavalry in center he was near to break uzbek line and then some cavalry apeared out of nowhere and hit his rear, he managed to escape but he said very few made it that day and almost all his army were killed. Later he said they used some mongoling trick hidding cavalry on the behind their flank which is not visible on flat surface and when he got fully engaged on the center their flank had expanded and crushed on his rear, so they were highing the actuall width of their formition. This is purelly mongolian tactics and Babur said they came in all mounted army without any supply train. Men are most wearing leather clothes he say and fury hats.
Another reference to Uzbeks I have from Kazakh records, Kazakhs was fighting Uzbeks for few decades to gain control over importand Turkestan cities on the silk road rout. They describe Uzbek Lashkars as very good armored cavalry on Akhal-Teke horses (most expensive horse) they say also that their horses is 1 hand taller than best of Kazakhs horses, and also mentions Turkmen style fury hats on their heads.
Ah another mention is from Kazakhs again during the siege of the Turkestan cities, Emire of Bukharo came with huge army 90000K storng (this figure could be not percise) with good seige equipment. They say that infantry lined up against the wall in perfect order and their armor was shinning on the sun. This is another inderitect mention of well drilled and equiped infantry. They also mention huge machine that was throwing huge stones that they priorly hitted in fire to make them red and then launched from this sort of catapult.
Will keep searching for more info.. that's too few and Kazakhs sourse is not documentary it is more poetic.
Problem : Change of dinasty in 1599.
"Shaybanids, descendants of Shayban khan son of Djochi founded the Uzbkek horde in 1451, the founder of Uzbek horde is Mohamed Shaybony (1451-1510), son of Shakhdulag sultan, grandson of Abulkhair khan.
In 1499 Shaybony-khan began conquering of Mawerakh area and in 1500-01 acquired this area from Timurids capturing their capital Samarqand founding new Shaybonids state;
He expanded his rule over whole area of Maweranakh and Horasan, in 1508-09 he commited series of raids again Kazakhs. In 1510 Shaybony khan was killed in battle with Sefevid Ismail Shah in area of Merv. After his death Quchqunzhi-khan ruled till 1530, Abusaid (1530-33), Ubaidulla I (1533-39).
During whole period Shaybonids fought constant wars with Sefevids for Horasan province and for second capital of Shaybonids in Herat.
During rule of Ubaiduly-khan II (1557-98, khan of all Uzbeks since 1583) their power grew up significantly. But after his death and murder of his son Abdal-Mumin dinasty of Sh. was broken. Pir-Mohamed II, the last Shaybonid, ruled only small area of Shaybonid empire but was killed in the same year. Since then (1599) Uzbek Khorde was ruled by new Ashtarkhanid dinasty."
So we see nice thing first during begin of the mod Uzvek horde were united by powerfull Ubaiduly-khan II and were in pike of their power, but soon this dinasty going to be replace by Ashtakhanids. So I wonder how it can be represented.
"Khanate of Bukhara was a feudal state in Central Asia during the 16th–18th centuries. It received this name when the capital of the Shaybanid state (1500–1598) was moved to Bukhara. Its received it greatest extent and influence under Abdullah Khan II during 1577–1798."
Ha ha from 1577 time of the mod!!!
Abdullah Khan II is the same person with Ubaiduly Khan II mentioned above it's just diferent interpretation in karlug turkic language which is more mongolic.
cegorach
03-20-2006, 10:54
Very good work, please continue ! :2thumbsup:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3e/Central_Asian_trade_routes.jpg/800px-Central_Asian_trade_routes.jpg
Map of the region.
beauchamp
03-23-2006, 01:21
What do you suggest for a capitol then? Maybe Samarqand?
No Bukhara seems to be the capital of Uzbeks, Abdullah khan II was rulling there.
beauchamp
03-23-2006, 15:38
Aa, Bukhara makes more sence...
So the Uzbeks were mostly Pagan and Sunni im assuming? Seeing as they were Islamicied by the Ilkhan.
Aa, Bukhara makes more sence...
So the Uzbeks were mostly Pagan and Sunni im assuming? Seeing as they were Islamicied by the Ilkhan.
Uzbeks are officially Sunni some fair beleivers some still having some pagan superstisions. Sefivids are officially Shia and but some consider them meing more sectants spiritualists who always had support in Iran. Ilkhan could not converted all population, to Shia, his own rule in Bukhara were not that long since Russians arrived soon. Today most of Uzbeks are Sunni.
beauchamp
03-24-2006, 19:19
Good to know. Thanks
cegorach
03-28-2006, 12:33
Any ideas about the flag they could use ?? :book:
YanTraken
03-28-2006, 13:51
couldn`t find any but her`re some emblems those regions were using :
Afghanistan1919 AD
http://www.anythinganywhere.com/commerce/coins/coinpics/afg-av.html
Abdallah II, 1583-98
http://www.anythinganywhere.com/commerce/coins/coinpics/isl-shayb-a2995-1.jpg
Tatars flag
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/r/ru-ta_ha.gif
Kazakhstan flag
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/k/kz.gif
Flag of the president of Kazakhstan
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/k/kz_pr.gif
Ancient flag of Kazak Khanate (1456-1822)
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/k/kz-fic1.gif
Uzbekistan national flag
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/uz1.gif
Uzbekistan Emblem
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/uz).gif
In my opinion their flag should have some stars,moon,oriental zigzak or mabe this horsement from presidental flag:)If we don`t find the proper-historical one ofcourse!
Salve!
We have Khazakh khanate ebmblem, for Uzbeks there should be some I should check. The burd on the Uzbekistan emblem is Semurg :-) I was wearing it on my belt plate durnig 1.5 year.
cegorach
05-12-2006, 17:51
Arman can you translate some of the names at least in Khazakh or Uzbek languages ?
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