Andalusian faction

[palissa]

Here come the crossbowman, based on pics on that site with figurine.

https://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3143/fr13yw.th.jpg (https://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr13yw.jpg)

https://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2694/fr25cc.th.jpg (https://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr25cc.jpg)

comments please :)

[edyzmedieval]

Can you polish that crossbow a bit? It looks a bit weird.(too pointy). :inquisitive:

[palissa]

Well, is the default crossbow of rome. i dont have an idea how to modify it.

Need some good pics of crossbow maybe.
And of course, similar andalusian bowman

https://img308.imageshack.us/img308/8201/fr17ej.th.jpg (https://img308.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr17ej.jpg)

https://img308.imageshack.us/img308/7657/fr25bs.th.jpg (https://img308.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr25bs.jpg)

Sibyan al rikab (maybe a fatimid units? dunno if can be used from andalusian...

https://img480.imageshack.us/img480/7889/fr19ph.th.jpg (https://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr19ph.jpg)

[almazor]

for crossbow,i think in the periode between the begining of the mod and 1099 they were not crossbow,i think they apear after the secund crusade,
and al andalus was under the arabs and logiclly the armies must be influenced by arab type of fighting,customs...i this unit they don't have turban and helmet.
for the sibiyan al rikab,this unit is good for abasside because:
1-this man seems like turks(and al mu'tassime recruit some turk as imperial guards)
2-the wear balck cloths and abassides and also there banner.
i read that abasside banners were balck,umayyade were white and fatimides were red.
i think that each unit of each faction must have a specific color
exmple alandalus(who were ruled by umayyades must have in there unit and banners the white color)
abasside balck
fatimide green

[palissa]

Bowman doesnt have nor turban nor helmet, must add it?
In that plates they dont have helmet or turban, but i can add of course.
Let me know what color if i must add turban.

[almazor]

for the plates the bow man was eating(he wasn't in war)osprey is good for some unit but they make a lot of mistakes,but the secund unit is great,i want you to integrate the white color in the unit of al andalus if you can.

[palissa]

Ah, so we dress al andalus in kinda white, if i got it exactly.

Will try to turn it white, and see the result.
Am preparing a berber kidna unit, for an infantry.

[almazor]

ok i'm waiting for it,
i still work on unitlist of fatimids and abassides

[palissa]

tunisian berber infantry.

https://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6250/fr10ac.th.jpg (https://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr10ac.jpg)

https://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1198/fr22qo.th.jpg (https://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr22qo.jpg)

I keep light color much near to white, for this.

[palissa]

Must tune the andalus, also, many units there with arabian name, and no desc or images whatsoever.
Need explain me those units :)

Ah another question: the andalusian bowman, must have turbant and helmet?
Or cans tay with naked head? If need turbant and helmet, tell me what color, pls. :)

Arab noble cavalry. I stick to white still

https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3613/fr15ge.th.jpg (https://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr15ge.jpg)

https://img349.imageshack.us/img349/4817/fr21og.th.jpg (https://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr21og.jpg)

[almazor]

nice units,the arab noble cavalry is very good add only a helmet and it's ok,the shield is very good,for the secund unit i think it's arab unit not a berber,it's good for the 3 faction :abasside,al andalus and fatimide.
the shield is good but for sudanese unit you must replace the shield with another metal round shield.
please do this modification and work on mawaly heavy cavalry.
i forget one thing add long spear to arab noble cavalry.
i find this web site,you will find some helmet and head in the periode of fatimids and al andalus
it's usefull for you:
http://www.amazonminiatures.com/dyo/dyo_heads.asp
http://www.dutkins.com/catalog/

[palissa]

I dont have faintest idea on how is a mawaly cavalry. have pic or some info on it?
Or a description?
And which weapons?

[almazor]

for the mawaly:
mawaly heavy cavalry:there parent was slave of the umayades and the ummayade give then there liberty,we cal then in arabic 'mawaly bani umaya'
they preserve there loyality to the ummayade.
N: 60, A: good, C: very good, D: very good, W:long spear, curved sword,H: leather, Ar: leather, S: oval, Mo: excellent, St: good, Co: expensive.
i don't have pictur of it but they must be influenced by arabs but they are they are with arab noble cavalry the elite of elite of armies of andalus,very strong as spanish heavy cavalry.
add turban and helmet and hide there face with chainmail

[palissa]

okay will use one of those helmet in that site, with chainmail on face.
In this post say armor leather, but i guess i will put chain mail instead of leather.
Will add a white turbant, a metal helmet, chain mail, a long spear, and a new scimitar.
The shield, dunno, round? oval? pointed like those andalusian in pic? which colors? we need to decide a color, or stripes for those shields.
Make a good thinking and tell me how like shield.

[almazor]

i find this(the arabic writing in the it mean:no conquerror but allah) i think we can use it as banner or as figure of shiled,the shield ithink will be round
http://www.hispanicmuslims.com/andalusia/andalusia.html

[palissa]

here a mawali cavalry.
They have also scimitar, as secondary.

https://img330.imageshack.us/img330/6910/fr12bg.th.jpg (https://img330.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr12bg.jpg)

https://img336.imageshack.us/img336/3232/fr25fk.th.jpg (https://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr25fk.jpg)

[almazor]

very nice,dress him an armor don't leave him like that.and we can use
http://www.hispanicmuslims.com/andalusia/andalusia.html
as banner of al andalus "wala ghaleb ila allah" it means in english:"there's no conquerror but allah".because arab and andalucians decorate there bannere with coran,we find it in the alhambra palace in granada(spain).

[palissa]

he has a chain mail armor, really.
You want some added things? like some other type of armor over it? i can add it easily.

Here with some golden armor :)

https://img332.imageshack.us/img332/5420/fr14ik.th.jpg (https://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr14ik.jpg)

[beauchamp]

Awsome Work! Remind me to reqruit you all once this mod is finished for an islamic conquests mod!

[palissa]

Any mod will be wiped out from mtw 2 :))
Where is almazor? i dont know what unit make next!
gimme some hint and descr for units, come on.

[almazor]

i'm sorry i was reading some sources about abbasside and fatimides,but the 's the next step:
Negros: T: heavy Sudanese swordmen (personal guard of calipha), N: 60, A: very strong, C: strong, D: strong, W: curved sword, H: iron, Ar: no, S: no/bilobed, Mo: excellent, St: excellent, Co: very expensive
Mamaliks (slave professional warriors): T: heavy slavic spearmen, N: 80, A: strong, C: good, D: strong, W: spear, sword, H: iron, Ar: mailcoat, S: round, Mo: excellent, St: good, Co: expensive.
Murtazika: T: heavy berber spearmen, N: 80, A: good, C: good, D: very good, W: spear, sword. H: leather, Ar: leather, S: bilobed, Mo: good, St: good, Co: quite expensive.
Muttawia: T: light berber infantry, N: 120, A: weak, C: average, M: good, D: average, W: javelin, spear, H: no, Ar: no, S: bilobed, Mo: average, St: good, Co: cheap.
Muyahids (jihad warriors): T: swordmen infantry, N: 80, A: good, C: strong, D: average, W: sword, H: leather/no, Ar: no, S: oval/bilobed, Mo: very good, St: very good, Co: average. Religious boost morale when combat christian or pagan
and i think we can add an arab Infantry maybe heavy spearman

[palissa]

obviously those sites dont work, i tried long time ago, but never worked.
I will try to make something from scratch.

[almazor]

picturs of some shield
http://www.maderuelo.com/siglo12/vestimenta/escudo.html

[palissa]

Did already some sudanese stuff.
Will try to do other, keeping always a shade of white.

[almazor]

you can do muttawiya or Muyahids

[palissa]

Murtazika, heavy berber spearman, padded leather, peanuts shield with zebra skin, helmet, white turban.

https://img459.imageshack.us/img459/1082/fr11iu.th.jpg (https://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr11iu.jpg)



Muttawia
light berber spearman, javelinman, no armor, bilobal shield covered with cow skin.

https://img392.imageshack.us/img392/8885/fr16os.th.jpg (https://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr16os.jpg)

https://img392.imageshack.us/img392/4779/fr24aa.th.jpg (https://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr24aa.jpg)

[almazor]

booth unit are good can you change the shield for muttawia.now we have to do mamaliks and negro guards

[palissa]

Mmm, what type of shield? Just change isnt enough, must tell how change :)

For negros, i have this model of sudanese mercenary on osprey plate:

https://img226.imageshack.us/img226/9268/fr17aw.th.jpg (https://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr17aw.jpg)

https://img226.imageshack.us/img226/7717/fr25lf.th.jpg (https://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr25lf.jpg)

[almazor]

it's nice for fatimid(they used nubian and sudanese in there armies),but for andaluce faction i think they must be heavely armored and they must have an arabic types of weapons,shield,helmet,turban and cloaths.add to that they are swordmen don't hide there face(only to know they are black).don't forget including white color.good luck,if you do that we pass to mamaliks

[palissa]

Here the negros reskinned.

https://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4967/fr17ve.th.jpg (https://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr17ve.jpg)

And here the muyahids

https://img140.imageshack.us/img140/110/fr10zq.th.jpg (https://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr10zq.jpg)

https://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5577/fr28bl.th.jpg (https://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr28bl.jpg)

[edyzmedieval]

Palissa,

Please get in game screenshots. They don't look ok to me in these types of shots. ~:(

[palissa]

Get ingame screen, mean lose alot of time for me bad scripter.

Ingame shots must be done by coders :)

When finished, will send all and you can get all the screens!

I go holiday 2 weeks, so will be back modelling on 27 april.
(Not that anybody will see the difference, looking the enthusiasm surrounding this forums...)
Bye

[edyzmedieval]

Well, it certainly will be a setback, because no more units for the mod. :embarassed:

Have a nice holiday though. :balloon2:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Have a nice holiday palissa! People will certainly notice, just because they don't all post it doesn't mean they don't lurk and watch ~:)

[almazor]

we al ready done the rumat al siniya isn't necessary to replace it with
:https://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr13yw.jpg
for the unit which you call them sibyan al rekab:

this unit is good for abassides because:
https://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr19ph.jpg
1-this man seems like turks(and al mu'tassime recruit some turk a large number of turks as imperial guards)
2-the wear balck cloths and abassides and also there banner.
we can call them turkish ghulam.

https://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr10ac.jpg
is good we will use it in the fatimid faction.

Arab noble cavalry
https://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr15ge.jpg
don't forget adding long spear to arab .

mawali cavalry.
https://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr14ik.jpg
add armors in there shoulders.but the unit is good

Murtazika, heavy berber spearman, padded leather, peanuts shield with zebra skin, helmet, white turban.
https://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr11iu.jpg
it's a good unit but add some armors because they are heavy infantry
(Murtazika: T: heavy berber spearmen, N: 80, A: good, C: good, D: very good, W: spear, sword. H: leather, Ar: leather, S: bilobed, Mo: good, St: good, Co: quite expensive.)
muttawia
https://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr16os.jpg
this unit is good but you must change the shield you can add the shield of murtazika(tiger shield it would be nice and funny).
muyahids
https://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr17ve.jpg
is good
negros
https://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr17ve.jpg
i didn't like the colors and in this picture i didn't see any shield or type of armor.
units to do in al andalus faction:
Negros: T: heavy Sudanese swordmen (personal guard of calipha), N: 60, A: very strong, C: strong, D: strong, W: curved sword, H: iron, Ar: no, S: no/bilobed, Mo: excellent, St: excellent, Co: very expensive
Mamaliks (slave professional warriors): T: heavy slavic spearmen, N: 80, A: strong, C: good, D: strong, W: spear, sword, H: iron, Ar: mailcoat, S: round, Mo: excellent, St: good, Co: expensive.

[palissa]

mmm, muyahids and negros have same picture, so must check it better.
I will make those correction and see how going.
Bye

This is the muyahids

https://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5025/fr36ny.th.jpg (https://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr36ny.jpg)

Murtazika:
The padded leather is a type of armor. If want another type, must add it, over that one.
What shield for murtazika? the bilobed? or keep that one?
Must use that bilobed shield, that take alot to do, and i cant trash it :)

Negros: that gold thing they wear IS an armor! is a lamellar type, look better :)
What color prefer on it? i stuck on white - light color as yo usaid for andalusian.

[almazor]

ok for negros it's good don't change it,now mamaliks:the imperial guard of ummayades

[palissa]

Okay, mamaliks.
What mean slavic? You mean they are slave of them, or they are slavic as race?
And how they dress? put up a good chain mail?
I need some of a desc, thank.

[almazor]

mamaliks:or saqalibah maybe we must change the name(mamaliks for abbassides,or fatimids)
in medieval Muslim Spain, Slavs, or people from the Black Sea coast north of Constantinople. Later, by extension, the term came to designate all foreign slaves in the military.

The custom in 10th-century Spain was to buy Slavs captured by the Germans on their expeditions into eastern Europe. These and other slaves from Galicia, Lombardy, Calabria, and the land of the…

These infantrymen are covered in armor and are the very definition of heavy infantry. They wear a full suit of chainmail as well as a leather lamellar cuirass while carrying a small round shield. They wield a long spear.They will form the personnel guard of the umayyad caliphat and are well suited to hold any position in the army of al andalus.
goood luck

[edyzmedieval]

Welcome back Palissa!

And nice skin. ~D

[palissa]

Here a version of mamalik.

https://img153.imageshack.us/img153/607/fr12nz.th.jpg (https://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr12nz.jpg)

[almazor]

very good and very nice

[almazor]

we move to another faction abbassid for example?are you ready?

[edyzmedieval]

I think we need to move to the more civilised factions.

[almazor]

who's the more civilised faction (abbassides, or fatimids)?

[beauchamp]

Abbasids, I mean, cmon. Its Harun al-Rashid and Baghdad, its were most of the 1001 arabian night stories are set or come from. It was the richest city in the world until the Mongols sacked it.

[almazor]

yes i agree with you,abbassides were more civilised than others.the polpulation of bagdad when mongol sacked it was 2million.wow is was a megapolis more than constantinople.

[palissa]

For civilized, i fear he mean european :)
How englisc can be named civilized, i dont know. A bunch of gauls screaming and painting their body of blue :)
We can call this mod age of muslim in a few :)

[Nacheras]

Sorry for the delay.

Palissa, I posted at army list, here
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62017
some links to a spanish page with paints of both christian asturian and andalusian military units, from Osprey and others. I don´t know why that link does not work.
I have found the link to the same page:

andalusian cavalry:
http://www.maderuelo.com/historia_y_arte/historia/g_media_siglo11_ejercitohispano.html

mamalik:
http://www.maderuelo.com/historia_y_arte/historia/guerra_media_siglo8.html
http://www.maderuelo.com/historia_y_arte/historia/g_media_siglo12_13_evolucionarmas.html

rabita:
http://www.maderuelo.com/historia_y_arte/historia/g_media_siglo10_evolucionarmas.html

rigal:
http://www.maderuelo.com/historia_y_arte/historia/g_media_siglo11_evolucionarmas.html

Christian and berber cavalry:
http://www.maderuelo.com/historia_y_arte/historia/g_media_12_13_ejercitohispano.html

About shields (you can found the correspondance at the description of the unit at "army list"):
http://www.maderuelo.com/siglo12/vestimenta/escudo.html
http://www.maderuelo.com/siglo12/armas/armas_detalle.html#Escudos

[beauchamp]

For civilized, i fear he mean european :)
How englisc can be named civilized, i dont know. A bunch of gauls screaming and painting their body of blue :)
We can call this mod age of muslim in a few :)

Even though it is in broken english, you are completely right. Although, most would disagree, they cannot deny that It was the Islamic world that triumphed even after the fall of Baghdad and Granada. and as it was said by prince Feisal in Lawrence of Arabia "We had Public lighting in Damascus before all of europe..."

[Nacheras]

Even though it is in broken english, you are completely right. Although, most would disagree, they cannot deny that It was the Islamic world that triumphed even after the fall of Baghdad and Granada. and as it was said by prince Feisal in Lawrence of Arabia "We had Public lighting in Damascus before all of europe..."

Well, in fact all the "civilized" arab characteristics are inherited from civilized Persian and eastern roman conquered territories.

Actually, were the Eastern Romans or byzantines, heirs of the ancient roman and greek, the "parents" of the "civilized" arab patterns and the european renaissance.

[almazor]

when bagdad or cordoba was one of the big city in the world lodon was only a small vilage

[Nacheras]

when bagdad or cordoba was one of the big city in the world lodon was only a small vilage

Of course, but Constantinople was bigger and more sophisticated those days than both cities you named.

Court organization, paved roads, baths, universities, palaces, public works and so other developed facilities of the caliphate of abassids or of Al-Andalus ommeyads, were adopted from conquered persian and eastern roman cultures. Surely arabs cleverly mantained and improve those civilizated patterns, but not created them.

[almazor]

this is your opinion and i respect it,but i desagree with you ,because under ummayade caliphat curdoba was the most big and florishing city in europe,300 hammam's , 22 hospital and the capacity of the great mosque'mesquita' was 30000 maybe more than that.if you wan you can add the zahra(built by abderham III) city and zahira(built by al manzor) near cordoba.and after the falls of this city Surely castillan adopted from conquered arab culturs ,cleverly mantained and improve this civilizated patterns, but didn't created that.

[beauchamp]

Im going to have to side with Almazor, But I do belive that Constantinople was about the same size as Baghdad. And it is really pointless to try and argue who was better, because the term "better" is really based on ones opinion. I will admit, even though my ancestors were Earls in England and were famous, I would have rather lived in an Islamic country and payed the "dhimmi" tax then face persecution.

[Nacheras]

Dear friends, I didn´t talk about "better" that is a subjective word and a respectable opinion. I talk about "precursor". And in all those things you said, byzantines (and persians) were the precursors, and arabs learned from them (and were a very good pupils, IMO). There were not "public illumination" or sewers, or great palaces, or sophisticated gardens at Muhammad´s Arabia. Those things arrived to arab culture after the conquer of Persia and the south-east byzantine territories at half-seventh century.
And Byzantines learned from romans.

That´s all.
Greets.

[beauchamp]

true true...

[almazor]

i can give you some examples:
Yemen was one of the oldest centres of civilization in the Near East. Between the 9th century BC and the 6th century AD, it was part of the Minaean, Sabaean, Himyarite, Qatabanian, Hadhramawtian, and Awsanian kingdoms, which controlled the lucrative spice trade. It was known to the Romans as "Arabia Felix" ("Happy Arabia") because of the riches its trade generated; Augustus Caesar attempted to annex it, but the expedition failed; Persian kings were more successful and Yemen became a Sassanid Persian province in 597/8 under a Persian satrap.
and olso the biblical story of king(prophet) salomon and the Queen of Sheba (Bilqis, in Islamic tradition).who travels to Jerusalem to check out the fame of King Solomon (1 Kings 10). According to some traditions (the Biblical passage is silent), she either weds or has an affair with Solomon, eventually returning home with their child (Menelik, in Ethiopian tradition). The location of Sheba has thus become closely linked with national prestige as various royal houses have claimed descent from the Queen of Sheba and Solomon.
you did'nt know about himyarites Himyar was a state in ancient South Arabia dating from 110 BCE. It conquered neighbouring Saba in 25 BCE, Qataban in 50 CE and Hadramaut 100 CE. Its political fortunes relative to Saba changed frequently until it achieved power around 280 CE.

It was the dominant state in Arabia until 525 CE. The economy was based on agriculture. Foreign trade was based on the export of frankincense and myrrh. For many years it was also the major intermediary linking East Africa and the Mediterranean world. This trade largely consisted of exporting ivory from Africa to be sold in the Roman Empire. Ships from Himyar regularly traveled the East African coast, and the state also exerted a considerable amount of political control of the trading cities of East Africa. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea describes the trading empire of Himyar.

The last sovereign Tubba Himyarite king, (Arabic: Dhu Nuwas) is often considered to have converted to Judaism. His war against the Ethiopian Aksumite Christians in his kingdom, resulted in a famous massacre in Najran. Other Ethiopian and Himyarite Christians at Zafar were massacred. Emperor Constantine informed King Kaleb of the Ethiopian Kingdom of Aksum about Dhu Nuwas's actions, encouraging him to intervene. Around 525, Kaleb invaded Himyar and defeated the Jewish King, but his first viceroy was later removed by Abraha, an Aksumite General. Abraha later recognized Aksum's dominion over him and continued to rule Himyar until 570 CE. A coalition of Yemenis and Persians later replaced Aksumite governance with a Persian one. In 632 CE Himyar was absorbed into the Islamic empire.
ok thanks for replays

[Nacheras]

thank you, almazor, for the interesting historic information

[beauchamp]

Hes corect, and it is said in the Quran i belive that the Prophet Muhammed sent his daughter to go and live under the protection of the eithiopians, until his war in Hejaz was finished...
Toll!

[Patricius]

Fine units and nice to see that this mod is still alive.