New unit at the .com: Woodsmen

[ivoignob]

http://www.totalwar.com/community/wood.htm

[drone]

Somebody call the police, looks like we found the guy that stole the huscarle's axe... ~;)

[Rodion Romanovich]

A unit full of Beiruts, that's scary :hide:
:creep:

Unit attributes:
Bonus vs spammers
Scares flamers

[Mithrandir]

Also check this out:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63922

(shameles forum promotion to get my revenues up).

[Trajen the 1st]

Shoulda figured these guys would make it back into the game. And yes, it looks like he has the Huskarls axe, while the Huskarl has his. :dizzy2: Maybe someone will swap the units weapons in 3dsmax after the release?:idea2:

[cutepuppy]

mèh, another not very exciting unit. Thus far I have only seen one very good unit (zweihander), one very..."odd" unit (english swordsmen), the rest are average at best.
When M2:TW was announced, I hoped that each faction would have at least 4-5 (new) unique units. I'm afraid that we won't see much new units at all.

[Kraxis]

Sort of happy he is back... I kind of liked these guys in MTW.

But this fellow seems pretty stupid... I mean stealing from a Huscarl. Yeah, real bright!

Seriously though, why does he have such a large axe? And why does it have inlaid decorations? Doesn't seem very woodaxe'ic to me. He carries an expensive and overly big weapon of war.
That axe would be really bad at cutting down trees. Too big, too heavy and too long.

[Bastarnae]

Good looking unit
I bet that axe can do alot of damage

[Martok]

I have to agree with drone, Trajen, and Kraxis. It's a good-looking unit, but I think the woodsmen and the Huscarle must've accidentally switched axes in a bar somewhere. (They were probably too drunk to realize it that the time. ~;) )

[Servius]

Also agree that the axes got swapped. The Woodsman's axe also seems to have intricate carvings and such on it. It looks very nice, but no lowly woodsman is going to have a master-crafted 2H poleaxe. They should have hatchets and/or axes with handles of the 3'-4' long variety.

[KiberMax]

I think the Woodsman will not want to vary axes. he cannot cut trees with a small axe :no:

[Herkus]

I think that there have never been such military troops like "woodsmen".
They all were peasants not bunch of guys who lived in woods, and I would like to see unit named Russian peasant levy with variety of weapons like javelins, spears, daggers, axes( not that huge one).

In if this unit comes from Russia north, than his hair and beard should be fair not black like the Mediterranean type.

[Watchman]

Well, the engines forces a certain degree of generalization of arms. Anyway, I'm under the impression the axes used for chopping wood *could* get pretty large - think them merry lumberjacks of old - and peasant levies/militias/guerillas/marauders/arrow fodder typically went to the field with whatever they already had at home. That's one reason why spears (useful for hunting and generally dealing with wild animals) and various axes (basic tools everyone had, and not all that rarely employed as a valid and traditional means of settling personal disputes) were so common.

That said, the fellow does seem to have nicked the Huscarle's "danish" axe. Maybe he got the guy drunk on vodka and swindled it off him...?

[Furious Mental]

Looks like a four foot long axe to me. Besides the decorations I don't see the problem.

[Myrddraal]

cutepuppy I find it incredible that you can deduce the number of units per faction from the preview of 5 or so units..... :dizzy2:

[edyzmedieval]

With that silly thing on their head, they look like Turks to me... :dizzy2:

[lancelot]

Nice lookin unit...not a terribly exciting unit but hey...

Where are the Varangians?!?!?

[Orda Khan]

Woodsmen would need a pretty big axe to cut down trees and chop wood. They could lose the decoration and I agree that he should probably look more caucasian, apart from that I think he looks OK

......Orda

[t1master]

i wonder what his finishing move will look like....

think he'll twirl the axe above his head or something? :wall:

[Kraxis]

Woodsmen would need a pretty big axe to cut down trees and chop wood.
Yes, the axe should be pretty big, but this axe is almost as big as the man himself. Such an axe is simply too big to cut wood with.
A lumberjack's axe is not this big, the large variety would still be fairly short yet have a larger head. It can be used both onehanded and twohanded.

One type of lumberjack axes.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009TAHXC/102-7049508-2772148?v=glance&n=3375251

Even if this is too small for a medieval jumberjack axe, it would indicate that the given axe here is far too big.

[KiberMax]

In any case, hi does not look as Russian woodsmen. and his cap is awful

[L'Impresario]

hmm..am I the only one who fails to see any axe decoration? I'd say that it looks extremely worn out and somewhat rusty heh

[Zenicetus]

I think that there have never been such military troops like "woodsmen".
They all were peasants not bunch of guys who lived in woods, and I would like to see unit named Russian peasant levy with variety of weapons like javelins, spears, daggers, axes( not that huge one).

I had the same reaction.... the individual model doesn't look bad (except for the length of the axe handle), but a full unit of these guys, all running around with that same axe and all dressed basically the same? Uniform weapons make sense for organized units, but not peasant irregulars like this. It would be so much better if they had a mix of agricultral weapon/tools like axes, scythes, pitchforks, etc. But I know the engine isn't really set up to handle this.

Oh well. Maybe we'll eventually get a game engine and powerful enough computers to handle mixed weapon types (and stats), within a unit.

[Mithrandir]

To cut trees you need a big axe, the one the woodsman has may be just 20cm (2/3 foot) too big. If you've got a small axe, it's hard to make enough of an impact on the tree. Try cutting a tree with a hatchet of a foot and a half...

[Duke John]

It would be so much better if they had a mix of agricultral weapon/tools like axes, scythes, pitchforks, etc. But I know the engine isn't really set up to handle this.
The engine is up to it. Just like it an unit can have multiple helmets it can also have multiple weapons. I don't know wether the weapon system is able to handle it, but if you attach the weapon to the helmet, then if you 4 types of helmets you can have 4 types of weapons.

[spmetla]

Too bad they can't make other uses for woodsmen. Like a construction time reduction for siege weapons. I guess they'd have to make timber requirements then and that would make taking desert cities really difficult.

[Taurus]

I think it looks amazing. Nice axe!

[screwtype]

That axe would be way too big and heavy to use on a tree. You'd exhaust yourself after a few strokes. And the handle is much too long, you couldn't control the aim of the blow properly.

Unless you were using it in an overhead swing of course, but you don't cut trees down like that. Hmm, yes, seems this guy has stolen the huscarl's axe.

Other than that, he looks okay. Oddly enough though, I *still* can't load the janissary.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Neither can I, even when waiting for minutes...

Btw woodsmen were one of my favorite units in MTW1, when I could use them properly I felt like a good tactician. I used to train a few woodsmen instead of peasants for garrisons in Poland and Russia, and in early battles they were quite good to send around the flanks charging into the rear of an enemy pinning to halberdiers or militia sergeants hidden in forests.

[econ21]

I'd be happier if someone could give me a historical reference to a medieval battle in which a unit of "woodsmen" armed with axes played a significant shock role. As a concept, the unit does not seem very plausible.

[Herkus]

Well I guess this unit is phantasy one and I believe that there aren't also any references or proofs that Russian peasants beared huge axes in battles just because the forests are thicker in northern Europe. Russian peasant weaponary(spears, axes, daggers) was the same as in Scandinavia, Balkans, France etc.
This unit just gives no sense to me.

[Dead Moroz]

Looks like XIX century professor dressed in carnival attire.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I'd be happier if someone could give me a historical reference to a medieval battle in which a unit of "woodsmen" armed with axes played a significant shock role. As a concept, the unit does not seem very plausible.

I agree, but they weren't much stronger than peasants in MTW1 either, so that means they are realistic from a weapon-tech point of view. I however, just like the rest here, doubt that woodsmen would form own regiments and would be employed as a fighting force by any professional army, but maybe in some extreme case could form a part of a rebel army...

What I mainly like about them in MTW1 was their stats, they had very interesting unit stats and a very special usage. But I hope they stick to historical units and skip unrealistic peasants and instead give such stats to interesting and realistic militia units.

[Subedei]

I once read a book about the Russian resistance against the invading Mongols....There were hideouts of peasants in the forrests & swamps & there is a legend of a guy who chopped down tons of nomads with his axe in the woods...but well. No regularl unit of the Zar, as i would guess. "Unleash the lumberjacks!"...I don`t know....

[naut]

What I want to know is why does his axe have a spear point on top, :inquisitive:. When is a lumberjack going to use a spear point when cutting down a tree.
I have a bad feeling that M:TW2 is going down the same path R:TW went down. CA is not being very imaginative or historically correct :stupido2:.

[Joshwa]

Just a brief thought: how many of you who are complaining how impractical that axe is have actual experience in lumberjackery?

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Just a brief thought: how many of you who are complaining how impractical that axe is have actual experience in lumberjackery?

Well I do. I have actually swung from tree to tree, -SIDE NOTE:(yes Monty Python pun intended because I am from Canada and yes I have seen actual lumberjacks dress like that - they speak great French and can fell a tree in blistering speed-but I digress) harnessed in and delimbing tree branches at my camp on Lake Superior -SIDE NOTE: (you are all invited to a Barbeque this May 27th -don't bring your swim suits the lake is too cold still -actually the stupid lake really never warms up but on hot days it is refreshing -there I go again digressing- back to the lumberjack thing), cut so many cords of wood that my hands blistered and bled, stood in swing stance, spread legged, swinging a 20lb crown axe to finish the cut on a tree because the chain broke on my chainsaw -SIDE NOTE: (lucky I had the lean cut done first -it is the cut on the wayward side of the tree lower on the trunk then the main cut setting the direction you want the tree to fall - then you cut on the opposite side till the two cuts overlap. Then in theory the tree is suppose to fall in the direction of the lean cut -ropes help pull it in the lean direction - but I have seen some just go where they want -back to the lumberjack thing again), or watched a widowmaker crash through the tree tops and fold a truck in half. -SIDE NOTE AGAIN:(Widowmaker; a dead tree limb from up high that falls because of wind or chopping at a tree or because it just was your time to die) I have never complained about anything from CA, because well it's a game and I sure have numerous things to complain about -taxes, Lake Superior never warming up, or point out -that guy went through a red light, or inform people that this or that is incorrect in my real life -work and kids kind of encompasses this whole example.

This WOODS MAN axe is very incorrect as an axe to chop wood and trees. But -here is the but- it IS a game and I can't wait to chop limbs and heads.

Keep up the good work CA -it is going to be a load of fun to play- because real life has way to many things to deal me wrong than an incorrect axe handle length that would cause it to glance off a maple tree trunk and lodge into my knee or foot, -SIDE NOTE: (I have actually seen a guy chop his toe off. He wasn't wearing steel toed boots, guess he thought he was a lumberjack.) or an incorrectly designed axehead that would wedge into a hardened knot, splintering my handle at the spline sending me head long into a tumble -SIDE NOTE:(never stand behind a swinging axe I have seen the head wrench loose and sail like a bullet and sink itself into a tree opposite to the one I was chopping - didn't wet the wedges on the axe head so the wood shrank....LOL)

I am ready to buy it the day it is released! -SIDE NOTE:(The game that is not the axe.)

Sykotyk -SIDE NOTE:(music designed for your imagination)

[Puzz3D]

This WOODS MAN axe is very incorrect as an axe to chop wood and trees. But -here is the but- it IS a game and I can't wait to chop limbs and heads.
Well you'll have to wait for some game after M2TW, because you can't chop limbs and heads in M2TW.

[screwtype]

Just a brief thought: how many of you who are complaining how impractical that axe is have actual experience in lumberjackery?

Woodcutting used to a pretty high profile sport in my part of the world (Australia) and professional woodcutters use an axe waaaay smaller than that. Australia has traditionally produced some of the best wood cutters in the world.

Here's what a wood cutter's axe looks like:

http://www.nswaxemen.asn.au/Introduction/l_bbarker1.jpg

You can see the handle is only about as long as that of a baseball bat, and the axe head is pretty small. An axe like this in experienced hands can cut through a treetrunk in mere seconds.

Wood cutting is hard work - I've done a bit - and you wouldn't want to use an axe any bigger than the one pictured above. If the axe was any heavier you couldn't swing it fast enough to get a decent bite, and the extra weight would quickly leave you exhausted. If the handle was any longer you couldn't lever it back and forth out of the tree when it gets stuck which it frequently does.

That axe in CA's pic is way too big for a woodcutter's axe.

[hellenes]

Oh common people its just a toy...sorry i meant game...
Do you actually think that a small realistic axe can impress the 10 years old target group of Tim Ansell?

Hellenes

[Leet Eriksson]

Guys lets not get too critical here, CA promised there won't be clone armies, so expect the weapons to look different in peasant units, that means that woodsman (in the 3d preview) might have looted the weapon from a corpse, which makes it sound more realistic ~;p

[phred]

Oddly enough though, I *still* can't load the janissary.


Try using Mozilla instead of your current browser - that worked for me.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Oh common people its just a toy...sorry i meant game...
Do you actually think that a small realistic axe can impress the 10 years old target group of Tim Ansell?

Hellenes

Then why would the too small huscarle axe impress them? They've switched the axes and if the huscarle would get the woodsman's axe and the woodsman would get the huscarle's axe, realism fans would be a lot happier...

[drone]

Just a brief thought: how many of you who are complaining how impractical that axe is have actual experience in lumberjackery?
Somebody needs to get Beirut in here for this discussion... :inquisitive:

[screwtype]

Then why would the too small huscarle axe impress them? They've switched the axes and if the huscarle would get the woodsman's axe and the woodsman would get the huscarle's axe, realism fans would be a lot happier...

To tell the truth, I think that "woodman's axe" is too flippin' big for any sort of use - except maybe hanging above the mantlepiece. The huscarl's axes I've seen have much smaller heads than that.

[Zenicetus]

To tell the truth, I think that "woodman's axe" is too flippin' big for any sort of use - except maybe hanging above the mantlepiece. The huscarl's axes I've seen have much smaller heads than that.

Definitely looks too long for a utilitarian woodsman's axe, and I've done a lot of woodchopping and light tree-felling with axes. But it's maybe not too long as a combat weapon, if used the way the guy on the left is using it (this photo lifted from the Huscarle thread here):

https://img460.imageshack.us/img460/9088/axefightbig7nh.jpg

I still think a mix of different tools would look better in a "peasant" unit, if it were possible. And what's with the grey color of the handle? Is that supposed to be a metal shaft? That would be a bear to swing, if the handle were metal.

[screwtype]

But it's maybe not too long as a combat weapon, if used the way the guy on the left is using it (this photo lifted from the Huscarle thread here)

But that's just my point Zenicetus. Look at the size of the axe head in that photo of yours, it's really quite small. The axe head that woodsmen is carrying looks a lot bigger and heavier.