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[doc_bean]

Link (http://pc.ign.com/articles/704/704483p1.html)

[Peasant Phill]

thanks for the link.

It doesn't mention anything new but I really like the passage about the AI, morale (longer battles) and the one remembering earlier diplomatic actions. Reassurance.

[ride the lightning]

It's great, CA finally talks about Diplomacy and Environmental effects (they better be very important!), but I wish they would show some previews of the campaign Map and the New World.

[Puzz3D]

While many of the new visual additions are basically for immersion and entertainment, there are some improvements to gameplay that are represented very visually as well. One of the big ones is the inclusion of impassable terrain.
Impassable terrain has been in all the total war games.



What's also intriguing is Creative Assembly's mention that AI is being set to be much more tactically competitive this time around.
They finally admit the battle AI in RTW/BI isn't competitive. Here's a suggestion: incorporate the battle AI from STW which can run circles around the RTW/BI battle AI.



While it might have been realistic to expect mortal men to freak out and run away from certain death, CA found it wasn't necessarily the best for fun gameplay.
After being told 10,000 times that the battles were too fast, they finally admit it.



While the real-time tactical battles in the Total War series get much of the face time in screens and videos, the meat of the experience is actually in the turn-based strategy meta-game.
What?



Diplomacy in general has been heavily updated to come across as even easier to manage and more fun to take part in. One of the best things about the process is perhaps the improved AI that will actually remember previous dealings this time around.
So, intentionally designing the AI in RTW/BI to not remember what it did wasn't such a great idea afterall. I hope the AI's new memory remembers what it did between savegames.



Finally, fans of the Total War series can make a happy note that assassination videos have made their way back into the series.
Removing them was supposedly an improvement over STW. Now putting them back in is an improvement? Maybe they should look at STW more closely to find additional improvements.

[Brighdaasa]

@puzz3D: exactly my thoughts

like, where the hell do they get the nerve to include impassable terrain as a new feature?

if it's true about the slower battle speed and improved ai, this game might actually be worthy of my support again

[Martok]

I was happy to see the AI get talked about. Also nice to see that weather apparently will actually affect battles again.

[Joshwa]

@puzz3D: exactly my thoughts

like, where the hell do they get the nerve to include impassable terrain as a new feature?


Maybe marshes, areas of dense vegetation or big rocks etc

[Oaty]

Impassable terrain has been in all the total war games.



Well hopefully the impassable terrain is more enhanced, 70 degree slopes that soldiers could walk on in STW an RTW. That degree of a slope was just an exploit on the A.I. Hopefully the terrain will have more impassable terrain such as flat swamps/rocky area so it can be used as flank protection.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The morale issue isn't necessarily so cool. It sounds like they could just be minimizing morale's effects. The speed of the battles I think was first and foremost movemenet and killing, not routing. Chivalry TW (since the old release, at least) had very delicate morale but units moved slower and killed slower. It was certainly better than RTW.

Morale isn't the only way to slow battles; only changing that specific factor I think would backfire - arcade mode, anyone?

EDIT

Thankfully a feature has already been added to allow you to see what kind of reaction other leaders are likely to give to your offers before they're proposed.
Wow. A feature I didn't know of before AND actually wanted! A miracle!

I am excited about E3 for MTW2, though. Maybe some tasty brain-washing video.

[shifty157]

Some interesting things i noticed in the new screenshots.

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/704/704483/medieval-2-total-war-20060502044424270.jpg

Notice the first rank of armoured blue knights. They are quite obviously kneeling. It seems as if they prepared spears against the charge.

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/704/704483/medieval-2-total-war-20060502044427707.jpg

Notice the yellow pikemen on the righthand side of the screen. The pikes are not only facing forward but also to the side.

I also must say that the game looks quite a lot better.

[Furious Mental]

I noticed that too. Glad to see the pike hedge will be in.

[Ciaran]

They are quite obviously kneeling
I don´t think so, look at the right flank. I think it´s the camera angle, they´re standing at the ready with bent knees. Why would they kneel in the first place?

And is it just me or do the horsemen in front of the last screenshot hold their shields in a weird angle?

[Vlad Tzepes]

The morale issue isn't necessarily so cool. It sounds like they could just be minimizing morale's effects. The speed of the battles I think was first and foremost movemenet and killing, not routing. Chivalry TW (since the old release, at least) had very delicate morale but units moved slower and killed slower. It was certainly better than RTW.



Agree on that, Alexander - though I hated fighting the Mongols in Khazar for like 3 hours at a time...

Better AI and better Diplomacy is my greatest wish for the new MTW 2.

[Odin]

though I hated fighting the Mongols in Khazar for like 3 hours at a time...

Better AI and better Diplomacy is my greatest wish for the new MTW 2.

Here, here on points mentioned, partciularly diplomacy (and by default AI). A combined command Crusade with multiple faction armies controlled by each faction? That would be nice, you only control your own divisions within the crusade. Not being a RTW played I cant speak to how far CA has come with the diplomacy side of thier games but MTW 1 has little to nothing in diplomacy.

[Dutch_guy]

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/704/704483/medieval-2-total-war-20060502044427707.jpg

Notice the yellow pikemen on the righthand side of the screen. The pikes are not only facing forward but also to the side.

I also must say that the game looks quite a lot better.

I must say that I hope those horses / knights aren't able to charge through the backs of their allies infantry, or at least receive some sort of penalty for it.

I think that would encourage flanking, not just for the human player - but also for the AI.

:balloon2:

[econ21]

The morale issue isn't necessarily so cool. It sounds like they could just be minimizing morale's effects. The speed of the battles I think was first and foremost movemenet and killing, not routing. Chivalry TW (since the old release, at least) had very delicate morale but units moved slower and killed slower. It was certainly better than RTW.

I have not tried Chivalry TW (is it MP focussed?), but morale is a tricky issue to balance. I suspect morale was a little low in RTW. Without command stars, enemies did seem to dissolve rather quickly. Mind you, a similar thing could happen in MTW. Often zero command star armies of mine would chain rout a few seconds after a heavy cavalry charge, much to my chagrin. Because the AI is inevitably handicapped compared to a human player, I think bolstering morale is important to get a decent challenge. If it is too easy for a flank attack or other human trick to cause a chain rout, the battles become walkovers.

However, you can go too far to the other extreme. RTR 6.0 Gold seems to have raised morale to extraordinary heights (I had no such objections to earlier versions of the mod). I've had whole armies of Romans die to a man against even larger AI Gaulish ones. I guess Romans should have high morale, but the point is the Gauls suffer even higher casualty rates and still stay fighting. RTR Romans have rather uber stats, but if the enemy don't rout, quantity can overcome quality. It makes for more challenging gameplay, I guess, but sometimes it does not feel right - armies dying to almost a man - and perhaps does not reward good tactics enough. It's nice to win a battle by a decisive manoeuvre (e.g. a flank attack) that ultimately breaks the enemies' will. If TW goes too much in this direction - making your soldiers into supermen, who fight to the end - then I think we will have lost something valuable. One striking feature of the TW series has been how subtle morale is - it is influenced by so many modifiers, it's rather impressive as a simulation.

Personally, I like the morale balancing in EB. Morale levels are higher than RTW but they are not inhumanly high. I haven't looked at the BI stats, but it feels like battles last a little longer. This might be more due to the higher defence stats and weaker missiles, though. If MTW2 emulates BI, I would be fairly happy. The morale, combat speeds, balance of arms etc in BI seem pretty good. From a SP point of view, I may even prefer it to MTW (where knights seemed a little weak for the period - they need some of that leaping, rip-roaring RTW vitality if they are to take their historical prominence. In MTW, they were the one arm I could do without, ironically.)

[scorillo]

Where are the gunmen ? I saw all the screenshots and units presented so far and no gunmen....that means no fire guns in MTW2 ? I saw some cannons though...but no gunmen :inquisitive:

I want to hear some fire shots in MTW2 !!

Medieval armies had many flags and banners...in mtw2 are quite missing...better CA fix that...and add more flags

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I have not tried Chivalry TW (is it MP focussed?), but morale is a tricky issue to balance. I suspect morale was a little low in RTW. Without command stars, enemies did seem to dissolve rather quickly. Mind you, a similar thing could happen in MTW. Often zero command star armies of mine would chain rout a few seconds after a heavy cavalry charge, much to my chagrin. Because the AI is inevitably handicapped compared to a human player, I think bolstering morale is important to get a decent challenge. If it is too easy for a flank attack or other human trick to cause a chain rout, the battles become walkovers.

Chiv was originally MP focused, though it's expanding (and apparently expecting a release sometime maybe this month) and I found it to be quite interesting for morale.

Morale was reduced. But I found that to be a pro instead of a con, in light of other changes and tweaks. Because all the units had fairly low morale (except for the rare elites) you had to make your moves carefully. An engagement that wasn't fully support was doomed to failure. Small things in RTW like line cohesion became vital - if a unit was exposed and you applied even slight pressure it could rout.

The combat and movement was slower as well, making tactical moves even more deliberate. It was harder to speed that cav unit across the field for emergency flanking. Flanking also became more difficult as it requires exposing the flanking unit to some degree.

And since it was MP-focused, purchasing morale upgrades became a quite important key to victory. All-in-all, keeping your army together added to the tension and the intensity made it more enjoyable than RTW vanilla.

However, it worked mostly in MP. There wasn't a campaign so I can't really say how well the AI handled the changes, and I haven't played in a while.


One striking feature of the TW series has been how subtle morale is - it is influenced by so many modifiers, it's rather impressive as a simulation.
Agreed. And it does make it hard for CA to keep the AI challenging.

[Rodion Romanovich]

As Puzz3D pointed out, it looks like the main complaints on RTW have been listened to and that MTW2 will improve on all these factors and do what the fans want. I must say this preview has raised my hopes quite a bit :2thumbsup:

[screwtype]

Good to hear they are getting rid of the notorious insta-routs. But exactly how much longer are the battles going to be? Since they got it so very wrong in RTW, I have to wonder whether they're going to get it right this time. But at least they're acknowledging the problem. And I guess any lengthening of melee time will be an improvement of sorts.

I couldn't be bothered looking at all the screen shots. But I did notice that in one, the horsemen are all riding with their spears at different angles. I'm pleased about this, because the previous shots I've seen with all the spears uncannily at exactly the same angle looked pretty weird. It also indicates that some of the graphics glitches we've seen in the early screenshots are being worked on.

[screwtype]

If TW goes too much in this direction - making your soldiers into supermen, who fight to the end - then I think we will have lost something valuable.

RTR pumped up the morale stat so high because it was practically the only way to get a decent length of melee out of the game engine. Apparently they were unable to fiddle with other stats to get a better balance, so they did what they could.

I very much doubt that M2 will be going the "superman" path, because CA are in control of all the variables and they don't need to come up with such a kludge. The issue rather will be whether they get the balance right this time. They really screwed it up badly with RTW.

[Puzz3D]

I very much doubt that M2 will be going the "superman" path, because CA are in control of all the variables and they don't need to come up with such a kludge. The issue rather will be whether they get the balance right this time. They really screwed it up badly with RTW.
They haven't gotten the balance right since original STW where there were only 14 units to balance. It appears that they don't have the time or resources to balance the game to the degree necessary. The community can't do it if parameters such as fatigue rates are hard coded. The guy who made XGM mod for RTW/BI has turned off fatigue which he admits isn't an ideal solution, but it's better than leaving it turned on which are the only two options.