View Full Version : Status Updates
we have gone quiet while we test things, move things, adjust things, add things,
boring stuff that gives us nothing to screenshot for you
i am currently finishing trawling through almost a Gig of resources for character names,
i want to check all the files and documents gathered (and sent to me) over the last three years - i dont want to miss anyone "critical"
although i probably will,
currently i already have far more samurai than the game can support,
my goal is 100 to 120 unqique characters for each clan
currently we have 29 clans in game (game crashes at 30 clans + rebels)
we also have a couple more clans we want in game, for pre-sengoku campaigns,
i may yet have to make a mini ex-pack to allow them in - we are testing that now
i am also sorting through 2,200 portraits made by a huge number of people that have been contributed to the mod over the years,
i have to sort them into categories then visually check for duplicates (many have come from the same source images)
i have so far identified 400 duplicates and 25 unsuitables,
i am allowing only a couple of duplicates through even though i have far more portraits than needed, a huge number - some 600, are too close to call (very similar), so i will spread them out into different categories and cultures and drop a substantial number of them.
my goal is 90+ portraits for each category and cuture except rebels, although i am going to be VERY hard pressed to have enough mongol portraits
If anyone wants to make some Mogol portraits that woulf be fantastic.
try mixing up backgrounds and tone and colour balance,
i dont care what format (psd, psp, gif, bmp, jpeg) the images are in - i can easily convert anything to game format.
Stye is something else i am pretty easy going with,
Kings for the Samurai are (mostly) old japanese art style, while Samurai generals are mostly photo style (similar to the Medieval protraits), assasins are a mix of both styles and so on..
R'as is making info pics and startpos test files, adding and testing clans,
reshuffling clans (we want to give the mongols the raider slot so they get a pillage bonus)
He is also making mons and flags and such, again nothing to show until it is finished.
If anyone wants to make some buildings for the mongols - only basic things like a retraining/organising center, ordu's that type of style,
i am thinking of dropping one of the Shogun castle upgrades (maybe impressive wood) and inserting a "castle" that only the mongols can build into the campaign, so that shows up on the campaign map - i am NOT sure it can be done, but i am going to try
(it is possible that you can only have one "string" of castles, but i "may" be able to cheat that by making the mongol fort/castle reliant on something only the mongols can build! - i cannot promise anything though)
SO if anyone can come up with a design suggestion (artwork) for it - great again!!
I only need the artwork for buildings and castle/fort, i can make everything else from that!!
oh
and i decided you need a screen of something,
so here's a screen of 24 Daimyo portraits
http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/mod_images/daimyo1.jpg
cheers,
B.
...I spent a few hours in a websearch for Mongol Architecture...here goes so correct me if i`m wrong.
Seems the Mongols esp early on didnt really have architecture other than yurts. They would more or less of course take over buildings that they conquered.....and to an extent rebuild some of their destruction, utilising craftsmen from their conquered territories.
The word on their architecture in China was that it was massive, grand scale stuff......well adorned...nice colors and script......much of what they showed for other areas of their empire looked close to being Islamic.
Now for their structures in conquered areas of Japan...do you think they would just copy the Japanese.....or meld that with their massive kinda Islamic or Persian style?
Castle....watchtower.....barracks or dojo.......stables.......religious center?
dimeolas
well i think it would have been small scale and easy to build,
they would not get much support from the locals for many many years and thus all they would be doing is re-organising re-inforcements from the mainland,
not that we can recreate shogun's reinforcement system,
but we can approximate it by giving mongols the raider slot and precious little income from provinces (no bonus buildings - basic income only),
so the Mongol player would have to keep raiding to make money
watchtower, no need for a port (i hope),
basic barracks, (possibly one for cav and one for inf and one for archers, maybe one upgrade for each?)
basic fort, no real religous buildings
opinions? ideas?
B.
macsen rufus
07-01-2006, 13:52
For Mongols, a siege engineer - at the very least for siege bows and naptha/thunderbombers, possibly a second level for trebuchets.
Maybe a port wouldn't be a bad idea as a pre-requisite for troop producers. May not be able to emulate the Shogun reinforcements, but can at least make the point that troops have to come from overseas, and this would limit recruitment to coastal provinces.
Religious buildings - adapt a VI pagan shrine to become an ovoo for a morale boost. After all Chingis did claim the mandate of heaven for his conquests, which must have inspired the troops somewhat :book:
Troop producers: how about this
* spearmaker: Korean javs + spears
* bowyer: Mongol inf.
* horse farmer + bowyer: cav. archer
* horse farmer2 + armourer: heavy cav
Might need new graphics to make all these yurts rather than buildings :laugh4: . Also quite fancy the idea of the Khan's 'ox-drawn wagon palace' as a unique structure with some sort of bonus (+3 morale, some cathedral income from looting?, agents) and maybe buildable in a single turn so it can be moved easily.
As the horse was the be-all and end-all of Mongol society, a small cathedral income from horse farmer line might be allowable???
Since I am now looking at the tech tree (a pdf draft will be ready soon) I have given some thoughts to a Mongol tree.
Historically as it has been said, initially the mongols did not contruct anything, rather on the contrary. Later on, they would use local craftmen and styles. Ideally one would want a tech tree that initially is different from the japanese one and then it joins? example:
No castle-Ordu-Walled or Royal Ordu-Impressive wooden castle etc.
This resembles the historical progression (Gengis had simple ordu with yert tent; Ogedei had a 'mock' walled wooden palace built in Katmandu for show, yet he would sleep in an adjacent Royal yert tent; Kublai had proper chinese palaces and cities built). This only requires graphics for Ordu tents. However it may be not possible to make two building routes to Impressive wooden castle, so a compromise is to make the Ordu and Royal-Walled Ordu as exclusive Mongol buildings.
Units: Similar ideas to macsen rufus. We could have several types of Mongol cavalry since there are 5 bifs and stats to use, from Shogun and MTW.
Ordu should allow recruitment of basic Mongol horsemen (Shogun LKav BIF). With 20% Farming, next level, Mongol Light cavalry (MTW Heavy steppe cavalry). Royal Ordu alows next level, Mongol Heavy cavalry (MTW Boyars). Wooden castle or whatever would allow the famous Mounted Royal Guard or Keshik (Shogun HKav bif).
Plus one unit of archer infantry (MTW mongol infantry) and PEASANTS (MTW bif Dervish), which they called hashar (or vermin) and which were mostly from captive peoples and used as cannon fodder to assault castles etc., the same you would like them for.
I agree on ideas of Pagan shrine. Mongols would also tolerate/use Buddists and christians. Mongols should also have secret agents and assasins, which they used profusely.
A final Mongol 'building' could be the 'Royal Hunt' or Nerge, a massive exercise over 100 miles which they used to train the army, pretty much like military maneouvres. Could be used instead of a 'drill dojo' or as a prerequisite for certain unit upgrades. (Graphics for this? No idea!)
I am not forgetting the Korean units. These could be available as mercenaries for Mongol only.
...ok so on a smaller than grand scale....Ordu`s style...please forgive my ignorance...Ordu`s style? And maybe a large wagon carrying a religious symbol......a large warwagon for the Khan.....adorned with religious symbols and rich woods and dark blues with gold inlay scripts and affixed with gold dragons.......and the aforementioned small scale basic buildings......wood construction or wood and stone? Or maybe take a captured Japanese building and they modify it slightly......
In any case have a 3day coming up so will work on this finally. Please let me know any and all that you need.
dimeolas
Sorry! Ordu = camp (apparently this is were the worde 'horde' comes from). So a camp full of yurts (or yerts). There are pictures in shogun of the round mongol yurts in the info for mongol units.
so then should all the Mongol buildings be variations of the Ordu style? Or wood or stone and wood? I have seen the architectural style from the Mongol constructions in the mideast...Iran etc...
dimeolas
??
the ordu style for low level,
(i can "mimic" some of them using exisiting models and making new skins)
as for wood and stone i would not know what they looked like
got any pics?
B.
...I gues here is my thought.....considering the timeframe we will be covering......what would the Mongols be able to build timewise. And other than the Ordu structures would they build their own at all for many years...until japan was subjugated.....or would they just make use of local structures.
dimeolas
If they would build anything at all in the game time frame, it would be looking chinese since they were Kublai Khan's army. The style would be that of Kublai's Yuan dinasty, I do not now much about it, I have pics if wanted, it looks just chinese to me (no pun intended; the buildings just have more decoration -lions and dragons- than japanese ones). But since Japan was anyway influenced by China at the time, chances are the buildings could end up looking pretty similar. A lot of work could be saved by using at least the japanese battle models for the stone and wood buildings. The info pics and icons could be changed slightly (added decoration, changed colours, added mongol figures) if wanted.
The pagan mongol shrine should also be a very simple affair, a mound of stones with lots of flags (these still exist today).
Tomisama
07-10-2006, 02:35
Fundamentally the Mongols practiced Shamanism, worshipping nature and the Blue Sky. Possibly why they built nothing, and had a nomadic lifestyle, even after the introduction of Tibetan Buddhism.
:book:
a mongol shrine of some sort would possibly be a good thing,
i agree with ordu/nomadic style structure only until japan was completely subjugated
basically these stuctures would be merely "organisation points",
the ships from the mainland would bring in the men and material,
and they would be organised into units by the "on the spot" commanders to suit their immediate needs
plus by not allowing them to utilise the local infrastructure givees them more loot when they conquer a province
(as does phsically destroying buildings on the battle map)
farm upgrades would be non-existent,
a small fort/watchtower would be a possibility,
what about armour and weapon upgrades?
maybe a single building of each type which would give a +2?
It depends how many units the Mongol will have. If they have several cavalry units for example, they would need several types of buildings to qualify.
Mongol horsemen could be the basic mongol riders that existed before Gengis, they would not need perhaps even an Ordu, or just the most basic one, to be recruited. They are mostly horse archers.
Mongol light cavalry would be the same but retrained and organised by Gengis and succesors. These would need a better Ordu, or Nerge, or whatever. Could just be an upgrade.
Mongol Heavy cavalry would need some type of armoury, although their armour (and the horses') was originally made of leather scales, later on metal. These are archers but with a punch when charging (that's why I suggested boyars)
The Khan's Guard would need yet another building. These would primarily just charge with lances.
These scheme can be simplified to just two types of cavalry by leaving a 'light' and a 'heavy' as in shogun but I would plead for at least three types for better play and visual enjoyment :2thumbsup: .
Agree with no farming upgrades but mongol cavalry should not be recruited in arid or desertic provinces (which apart from their defeat at Ayn Jalut explains why they stooped in Siria). That's why I suggested to leave the most basic upgrade. Alternatively, the list of provinces were they can be recruited could be put in the unit prod file.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.