New Machine...

[Al Khalifah]

I fear I've been putting off buying a new machine or even attempting serious upgrades for quite some time and my box now feels a bit like an antique. I didn't really appreciate how far technology had moved on till I put Oblivion in my DVD Drive and had it laugh in my face. I thought FarCry was graphically good, but alas that's as far as my machine will be pushed.
Approaching 4 years old my old system was:
AMD Athlon XP 2200+
1 GB PC3200 Crucial RAM
GeForce 4 4600 Ti
Seagate Baracuda 7 80Gb x 2
SoundBlaster Audigy Platinum

Anyway, I want to appreciate modern games with their modern things. I was wondering if this 'beast' would be considered a good deal for £900:

CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Pentium® D 945 Dual-Core CPU @ 3.4GHz 800FSB 2x2MB L2 Cache EM64T
Motherboard: MSI P4N SLI XE nForce4 SLI XE Chipset LGA775 DDR2/667 SATA Dual PCIE w/7.1Audio, GbLAN, &USB2
Memory: 1GB (2x512MB) PC5300 DDR2/667 Dual Channel Memory
Video Card: NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GX2 1GB 16X PCI Express Video Card
Hard Drive: 250GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
Optical Drive: SONY DUAL FORMAT 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Sound: Creative Labs SB AUDIGY 2 VALUE 7.1

Any thoughts?

[AntiochusIII]

I'm not exactly an expert in anything computer, but I think if you're willing to spend that much money on the top-of-the-line CPUs and Graphics Card you might also consider using a Seagate HD with a 16mb cache, and maybe an extra 1gb of RAM to go with it.

[CBR]

Hmm what resolution are you planning on using? That vidcard is a monster. Personally I would get a Core 2 Duo cpu instead http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-shootout.html


CBR

[hoom]

Yah, mega GPU & definitely go for a Core2duo (faster & better value for money)

My new PC is up & running since yesterday
Core2duo 2.4ghz, 2gb DDR667, 975 chipset mobo, x1900gt.

The 24" Dell LCD at 1920*1200 has been killing my poor old 9800np.

New PC monsters everything I have thrown at it so far (though that doesn't actually include any recent games)

[orangat]

.........
CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Pentium® D 945 Dual-Core CPU @ 3.4GHz 800FSB 2x2MB L2 Cache EM64T
Motherboard: MSI P4N SLI XE nForce4 SLI XE Chipset LGA775 DDR2/667 SATA Dual PCIE w/7.1Audio, GbLAN, &USB2
Memory: 1GB (2x512MB) PC5300 DDR2/667 Dual Channel Memory
Video Card: NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GX2 1GB 16X PCI Express Video Card
Hard Drive: 250GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
Optical Drive: SONY DUAL FORMAT 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Sound: Creative Labs SB AUDIGY 2 VALUE 7.1
Any thoughts?

Get the Intel Conroe 6300 for just a little bit more.
Wait for a motherboard roundup to decide which mb to get for the Conroe.
Get a samsung or hitachi.
Don't get the A2 value - driver problems. Stick with the platinum you have or get the A2ZS.

[Al Khalifah]

I am right to assume then, that Intel is currently the way to go in the CPU stakes? When I was reviewing things, it certainly seemed to offer more speed per pound at the top end.

Is the GPU a bit over the top? Or would an ATI be better?

[Geezer57]

I am right to assume then, that Intel is currently the way to go in the CPU stakes? When I was reviewing things, it certainly seemed to offer more speed per pound at the top end.

Intel Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Extreme are at the top of the performance pile right now, the rest of their range (especially any Pentium 4 based chips) is not.



Is the GPU a bit over the top? Or would an ATI be better?
If you sacrificed a lot of money for a little bit less performance, you might consider the new ATI 1950 XTX (review here: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2821&p=1)

[Al Khalifah]

My thought is whether I should get a 7950GX2 or an ATI 1900XTX.

Is it possible to have two 1900XTX's in Crossfire mode? The main game I want to play at first is Oblivion but obviously I will want to play more games in the future and I'm thinking about which card will be good longest into the future and also its potential to be doubled up/upgraded. I've heard ATI cards are better for Oblivion?

[DukeofSerbia]

I thought FarCry was graphically good,

Far Cry had excellent graphics when it was out. But Far Cry need more powerfull processor than grapics card.




Hard Drive: 250GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive


Buy this model if you can find it: Samsung SP2504C



Optical Drive: SONY DUAL FORMAT 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)


The best are NEC ND-4570A and Pioneer DVR-111DBK. Both use NEC chipset.



Motherboard: MSI P4N SLI XE nForce4 SLI XE Chipset LGA775 DDR2/667 SATA Dual PCIE w/7.1Audio, GbLAN, &USB2


SLi and Crossfire systems (montheboards) are the waste of money.



I've heard ATI cards are better for Oblivion?


I don't know, but the new Catalyst 6.7 drasticlly improve the performance of the new top models in benchmarks and video games.

P.S.
I found for Oblivion in Tom's Hardware: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=519&model2=547&chart=210 You will find several tests for Oblivion. It seems that Geforce 7950GX2 is not good for Oblivion at all.

[DukeofSerbia]

My thought is whether I should get a 7950GX2 or an ATI 1900XTX.


7950GX2 is faster mostly even from the new RadeonX1950XTX.

http://www.benchmark.co.yu/vidito.php?oliver=3711&sid=11412&pop=DoP&form22=+Idi%21+

In 3d Mark 05 and 06 7950GX2 is faster.
In CoD2 7950GX2 is faster.
In Doom3 are equal mostly.
In Quacke4 RadeonX1950XTX is faster.
In Prey RadeonX1950XTX is faster.
In Chronicles of Riddick 7950GX2 is drasticlly faster.
In Splinter Cell Chaos Theory 7950GX2 is faster.
In Battlefield 2 RadeonX1950XTX is faster.
In Prince of Persia: Warrior Within are equal mostly.
In Halo: Combat Envolved are equal mostly.
In Far Cry 1.33 RadeonX1950XTX is faster (note: ATI can both HDR and SM 3.0).
In Half Life 2 RadeonX1950XTX is faster.
In F.E.A.R 1.3 7950GX2 is faster.



Is it possible to have two 1900XTX's in Crossfire mode?


Yes, it is possible but you need to buy CrossFire edition of card. Waste of money, anyway.

[Geezer57]

My thought is whether I should get a 7950GX2 or an ATI 1900XTX.

Is it possible to have two 1900XTX's in Crossfire mode? The main game I want to play at first is Oblivion but obviously I will want to play more games in the future and I'm thinking about which card will be good longest into the future and also its potential to be doubled up/upgraded. I've heard ATI cards are better for Oblivion?
I would narrow it down to the 7950GX2 or the x1950XTX (not the x1900XTX). There's a good comparo here: http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE0NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

[Ice]

Get another gig of ram and 10000 rpm hard drive. That video card is godly. 1 gig? Good god.

[_Martyr_]

IMO you are going major overkill with that 7950GX2... Its disproportionatly powerful (and expensive) compared to the rest of your PC. The money would be better spent on a better CPU or more RAM. I would say get the E6600 instead of the E6300, it has a 4MB L2 cache which really does transform to better performance. Go for a 7900GT for your graphics card, its really where the sweetspot is atm for bang for buck. Sure there are better cards, but in a few months when DX10 cards are released even the beast you were looking at before will be obsolete... Then in 6-8 months time upgrade to what is then the best bang for buck DX10 card out. :juggle2:

[orangat]

I see some really strange wacky recommendations here.

I'll never recommend a 10k rpm drive unless the user is an enthusiast with
a good cooling setup.


IMO you are going major overkill with that 7950GX2... Its disproportionatly powerful (and expensive) compared to the rest of your PC. The money would be better spent on a better CPU or more RAM. I would say get the E6600 instead of the E6300, it has a 4MB L2 cache which really does transform to better performance. Go for a 7900GT for your graphics card, its really where the sweetspot is atm for bang for buck. Sure there are better cards, but in a few months when DX10 cards are released even the beast you were looking at before will be obsolete... Then in 6-8 months time upgrade to what is then the best bang for buck DX10 card out. :juggle2:

Why is the 7950gx disproportionately powerful?
How do you know that the e6600+7900gt will give better performance especially when the e6300+7950gx2 is only $50 more?
And where did you get the idea that DX10 cards going to turn current models obsolete in a few months? DX10 is not going to be a factor for about at least 2 years.

[Al Khalifah]

Re-thought idea - for the same price (weird no?):

CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6600 CPU @ 2.4GHz 1066FSB 2x2MB L2 Cache
Motherboard: Asus P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe nForce4 SLI Chipset LGA775 Supports Core 2 Duo CPU FSB1066 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394&7.1Audio
Memory: 1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair)
Video Card: NVIDIA Geforce 7950 GX2 1GB 16X PCI Express Video Card
Hard Drive: 300GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
Optical Drive: SONY DUAL FORMAT 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: SONY 16X DVD-ROM (BLACK COLOR)
Sound: ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
PSU: NZXT PF-500 500 Watt Power Supply

I like this. It has room for expansion, can increase memory to 2GB in the future, add a sound card, add another HD (possibly for some RAID) or (if I win the lottery) go to Quad-SLI.

[orangat]

Get the e6300. If your pc's most taxing task is typically on games, there won't be a significant difference. The e6300 is a great overclocker and you save some money. The bigger 2Mb cache has practically zero value over the standard 1Mb for games despite what others think.

And get a good psu because the 7950gx2 is a beast.

[Papewaio]

I'll never recommend a 10k rpm drive unless the user is an enthusiast with a good cooling setup.

Would you recommend a SATA RAID for capacity and speed?

[Al Khalifah]

What arrangement ?

[Papewaio]

Well to go faster and have more capacity first. Adding extra drives for redundancy would come second. As DVD-RWs are so common now all vital files can be stored offsite I would focus on speed more then data integrity for a games machine, particularly one that I would rebuild to play with.

[orangat]

Would you recommend a SATA RAID for capacity and speed?

Only if there is real proof of need. Eg. Can you justify RAID over getting another drive for more disk space. I generally don't because the probability of failure is increased.

[Papewaio]

I would be using data striping (RAID 0) for extra speed (mainly the loading of the game in the first instance, not game play itself) and capacity. Yes you do have a larger chance of failure {(probablilty of a single drive failing) to the power of the number of drives in a set}.

But I havn't had a drive fail in ages and as a game PC I would go for speed and data volume over mirrored for redundancy. With our enterprise servers we use RAID sets and and clustered servers using 15k rpm drives, but that is overkill for a game pc which most vital data is the saved game file, which are rather tiny.

Of all the things that might kill a PC that is being overclocked I doubt the HDs will be the first to go (unless someone is playing with them too) and then the time taken to rebuild a PC will come down to how fast things get loaded which will tend to bottleneck at the HD. Later on when playing it is other things that normally form the bottleneck. So in essence I'm saying build for speed of loading the game to the system and more capacity and knowing that the flaw is no redundancy, back it up!