MA Update #4 Discussion

[menander]

Awesome preview, shifty. Loving this mod already!

[shifty157]

Wow. I cant thank you enough for actually replying. I was beginning to think that id been wasting my energy posting the updates on this forum.

I appreciate your support menander.

[Peasant Phill]

It's not because there are no replies that nobody is reading your updates. I'm looking forward to playing M2TW and the improvements that MA will bring.

[shifty157]

I know. I can tell by the number of views that quite a few people have at least skimmed through the update. But at this point we arent posting updates just for the hell of it. We're hoping to get some kind of feedback from the community so we can get an idea of what people are looking for. I know this forum is notorious for lurkers but i guess i was hoping for more feedback than none at all.

[NagatsukaShumi]

I wouldn't worry shifty, I tend to find the Orgt normally gets alot busier on opinions on modifications once the game is released, so not to worry.

Although I'd like to see more myself :laugh4:

[Quietus]

Very nice, Shifty. I like the story and Abu Bakr Ibn 'Umar seem like a cool general (although he may not be included). :)

I think the feedbacks are not there yet because the full M2TW game mechanics are not even known.

[Orb]

Nice stuff!

*really hopes graphics card can run M2*

[shifty157]

Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate it.

Just as a heads up, hopefully we'll have our next update out to you in about two weeks or so.

[Peasant Phill]

Just a hint. If you want feedback, announce the update on the M2TW forum here at the org like you did before. I bet you'll get a lot more replies.

[shifty157]

Well I dont want to go overboard and start spamming the forums. But ill do that for the next update.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

hey shifty, i noticed on all of your current maps that there is a large empty space on the borders... is this so that the fighting is focused on the center of europe? and also how are you going to achieve this without having an extra province there (perhaps by surrounding the city with impassable terrain?)

GMM

ps good preview :thumbsup:

[shifty157]

Thanks GMM.

Thats a good question that you have.

I assume youre talking about our three dead regions. These regions (the saharan desert in the lower left, the arabian desert in the lower right, and the russian desert in the upper right) are areas that just cannot be conquered. They possess minimal to no farmable land and combined with harsh living conditions they are only inhabitted by small nomadic tribes. The result is that any imposition of a centralized government on these lands would not only be incredibly unprofitable (these lands truly provide no benefit of any sort) but would also be rather impossible.

To reflect this in the game we have created dead provinces. They are provicnes but their cities will be as far away from civilization as possible and surrounded by impassable terrain. So you can still move your armies around the province if you wish but you will never be able to conquer it (nor would you want to).

Obviously there are gameplay advantages to this as well. As you mentioned it does focus expansion toward the center of the map which is historically accurate and provides for better gameplay. We dont want the AI to have a couple of full stack armies just roaming about the edges of the map in these provinces so by moving the cities out of the AI's sight range and surrounding them the AI should completely ignore them.

However. That doesnt mean the provinces should be ignored. You will be able to recruit exotic mercenaries in these provicnes that you wont find anywhere else. We also have plans to spawn rebel raiding armies on the borders of these provinces forcing you to keep larger than normal garrisons in the area. None of this of course is yet finalized but thye are ideas that we would like to implement.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

thanks for that shifty... i've always wanted something along those lines to be done because you can't simulate the unlikely possability that the faction would have/could have invaded further in those directions if they saw profitable... also, what does it take to get on the team? :2thumbsup:

[shifty157]

Well itd be a good idea to have some skill in modding which you obviously do. Its also expected that members visit the developer forums as often as possible and partake in the discussions going on.

After that you just need to complete our Obstacle Course of Death without dying and steal a priceless work of art from a nearby internationally acclaimed museum.

So really it isnt that difficult to get in.

But really. The first thign youd have to do is go over and register at our forums. Post an introduction about yourself and what you can do. The team will then discuss in private whether or not to let you join (though i doubt letting you join will require much discussion).

Thats it. The entire process generally doesnt take too long depending on how many people are away. Just PM me once you register and ill make sure things go as smoothly as possible.

[x-dANGEr]

Now that's more exciting the M2: TW! 0-i

[Solon of Athens]

This mod looks like it is going to be awesome, good luck...:2thumbsup:

[Numio]

Looks like it'll be great!

I like the idea of unconquorable 'dead zones' too!

Just one concern is that the sample map seems to be covered with provinces which'll probably mean many more sieges and less actual battles. Do you think this'll be a problem? Just because the limit allows many more provinces doesn't necessarily mean having them is a good idea. I was just wondering what the idea was behind having so many provinces?

Also you as you intend to be the spiritual successor to EB do you plan on rehauling the trait system in the same way EB did?

Cheers

[IrishArmenian]

Shifty, you are never wasting your time. Can someone make a signature sized MA imaj?

[shifty157]

Now that's more exciting the M2: TW! 0-i

This mod looks like it is going to be awesome, good luck...:2thumbsup:

Thanks a ton guys. We really appreciate it. Never underestimate the power of praise on a modder's motivation.


Looks like it'll be great!

I like the idea of unconquorable 'dead zones' too!

Just one concern is that the sample map seems to be covered with provinces which'll probably mean many more sieges and less actual battles. Do you think this'll be a problem? Just because the limit allows many more provinces doesn't necessarily mean having them is a good idea. I was just wondering what the idea was behind having so many provinces?

Also you as you intend to be the spiritual successor to EB do you plan on rehauling the trait system in the same way EB did?

Cheers

Ill answer all your questions as thuroughly as i can.

Ill answer the second one first because its easier. Yes we do plan on overhauling the trait/ancilliary system extensively. One of our goals with the system to make traits play a much larger role in the game especially with your faction leader. We want extreme behaviors to really make an impact on how you play the game. For example this is just an idea we've thrown around but it shows what i mean when i say that we want traits to have a big effect.

Your faction leader may acquire the trait of having "expensive tastes". This is the first trait in a series of 4 or so traits that progressively get worse. So this trait in itself may not have any effect at all. But if the trait is allowed to progress down to the end of the line to "compulsive spender" you'll find very quickly that your faction leader is draining hundreds of florins per turn from your treasuries to throw his absurdly extravagent parties and such. It wouldnt be the first time that a king sent his country spiraling into debt because he spent too much money on himself.

Of course such extreme traits wont be very common but when they do come around you WILL notice. We plan to have very many of these trait progressions (where a relatively harmless trait can potentially lead to more and more extreme traits).

Currently we are discussing if it would be possible and desirable to implement the title system that MTW2 is so sorely lacking. More news on that probably much much later.

Now for your first question about the number of provinces. I fully realize your concern and i am very concious to it but hopefully i can alleviate your fears a bit.

Firstly. Historically seige battles were much much more prevalent than field battles during medieval times. As a defender you had a choice. You could either go out and meet the attackers on the field where neither side had a significant advantage or you could hole up inside your castle where you had a huge advantage. The decision was obvious and the statistics reflect it. So keep this fact in mind that the majority of your battles should be seige battles and field battles should be rather uncommon.

Now I know this isnt the most fun to only have seige battles. So i can say that our map which although it covers the same geographical area of the MTW2 map (minus the americas) is actually much much bigger than the MTW2 map. Several times bigger in fact. This means that there will be alot more open space in between cities to maneuvre in than it might look. Many people just assume that our map must be the same size as the vanilla map simply because it covers the same area when in fact the dimensions of our map are several times bigger than the vanilla map. I hope i explained that well enough for you to understand what im trying to describe. Its rather difficult without actually seeing it.

If all else fails we have one final step to solve any gameplay problems and thats playtesting. If we're playtesting the mod and find that there are in fact too many provinces then we can easily remove a few without any problems.

Hopefully i answered your questions. Please ask if you have any more. Thats what im here for.


Shifty, you are never wasting your time. Can someone make a signature sized MA imaj?

Well NS has a signature that you can use. You are also welcome to use mine if you want. Otherwise i no longer have photoshop so i cant make any more.

[Numio]

Cheers for your answers Shifty!

I'm liking the ideas you have for the trait system. Glad to hear about the reasoning behind the increased provinces, especially that the map's larger. Anyway, hopefully siege battles will be much were enjoyable in M2TW than in the long repetative affairs they were in RTW.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Shifty, you are never wasting your time. Can someone make a signature sized MA imaj?

At some point I will be making some MA signatures, I can't garuntee when, but for now feel free to use mine.

[danfda]

It's not because there are no replies that nobody is reading your updates. I'm looking forward to playing M2TW and the improvements that MA will bring.


Roger! This sounds great. With the recent purchase of a new PC (though I still have to build it :laugh4: ) my interest in M2TW increased rather dramatically. I just don't have much to contribute, other than flattery. Now if it were a game regarding bacterial DNA and such, then I'd be your guy...

[shifty157]

Now if it were a game regarding bacterial DNA and such, then I'd be your guy...

Well that got me thinking for a few seconds and i think Bacterium TW would be a kickass game. The map is a big petri dish where several different types of bacteria fight it out to be the dominant strain. Obviously youd have to redo the strat map textures to represent a petri dish. Cities become bacteria colonies. You redo the battlefield textures and everything to represent the new microscopic scope. Instead of constructing buildings you develope evolutions.

Itd be such a sweet game. Id definitly play that.

Anyway.

Thanks for your support.

[Chuffy]

At first I didn't like MA, I just thought it a bit useless to have two different medieval 'realism' mods.

But seeing some of the work you've done and the stuff you've mentioned in this thread I am a convert!:2thumbsup:

Love the idea of the deadzones (I've even modded RTR and EB to do this exact same thing!), liking the traits you mentioned, the idea of regional specific units (i.e. European Longbowmen, Asiatic/Arabian Longbowmen) is fantastic and the increased map scale makes me want to smear myself in butter...or something less weird perhaps.

Long live MA!

EDIT: Also, are we going to see anything in the way of new buildings?

[Gurkhal]

I support: Long live MA!

PS: Save some butter for me at the release. It's going to be a wild night. :2thumbsup:

[NagatsukaShumi]

At first I didn't like MA, I just thought it a bit useless to have two different medieval 'realism' mods.

But seeing some of the work you've done and the stuff you've mentioned in this thread I am a convert!:2thumbsup:

Love the idea of the deadzones (I've even modded RTR and EB to do this exact same thing!), liking the traits you mentioned, the idea of regional specific units (i.e. European Longbowmen, Asiatic/Arabian Longbowmen) is fantastic and the increased map scale makes me want to smear myself in butter...or something less weird perhaps.

Long live MA!

EDIT: Also, are we going to see anything in the way of new buildings?

I'm so tempted to steal that for a slogan in a MA sig :laugh4:

[shifty157]

I'm so tempted to steal that for a slogan in a MA sig :laugh4:

I thought the exact same thing i thought as soon as i read that.

Cheers guys. Thanks for the compliments although im sorry to say we wont be including butter with our release. Currently that is sold serperately.

As to your question, Chuffy. Do you mean battlemap buildings or just new buildings in general? Theres a chance you may see new battlemap buildings (assuming its possible, we only learned how to create truly custom battlemap buildings for RTW in the past several months) but battlemap buildings arent very high on our list of priorities considering we're staying in the same period as the game. If you meant new buildings in general then yes. We are planning alot of new buildings including the new government buildings and the cultural assimilation buildings. I dont want to go into too much detail on this topic at the moment because we have quite alot of good ideas and i want to make sure we'll have enough room to include them before i start leaking any information.

[shifty157]

Howre these?

https://img47.imageshack.us/img47/699/llmasng3.gif

https://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4615/llmalsm1.gif

https://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9653/masmq5.gif

https://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9821/malad8.gif

The smaller ones are for use here on the Org. The larger ones are for use on other forums with more lax restrictions on signature size. These are for public use so feel free to use them.

[anti_strunt]

I assume youre talking about our three dead regions. These regions (the saharan desert in the lower left, the arabian desert in the lower right, and the russian desert in the upper right)

The famous Russian desert! :D

[shifty157]

Im pretty sure it is technically considered a desert. By definition a desert is an area that gets very very little rainfall a year. It doesnt have anything to do with hot sand and the like.

[Quietus]

I made a Medieaval Auctoriso sig awhile ago, if anyone wants to use it:

https://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5350/smax1aic2.jpg
https://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5350/smax1aic2.jpg

[shifty157]

Thats a really nice sig. Better than anything i could do. Thanks.

[HighLord z0b]

Im pretty sure it is technically considered a desert. By definition a desert is an area that gets very very little rainfall a year. It doesnt have anything to do with hot sand and the like.Totally correct, in fact Antarctica is technically a desert as it has very little rainfall (it's all ice and snow). Is it possible for the dead provinces not to have cities or is that hardcoded in?

[shifty157]

Is it possible for the dead provinces not to have cities or is that hardcoded in?

More than likely it will be hardcoded in that they need cities.

[DukeofSerbia]

I assume youre talking about our three dead regions. These regions (the saharan desert in the lower left, the arabian desert in the lower right, and the russian desert in the upper right) are areas that just cannot be conquered. They possess minimal to no farmable land and combined with harsh living conditions they are only inhabitted by small nomadic tribes. The result is that any imposition of a centralized government on these lands would not only be incredibly unprofitable (these lands truly provide no benefit of any sort) but would also be rather impossible.

To reflect this in the game we have created dead provinces. They are provicnes but their cities will be as far away from civilization as possible and surrounded by impassable terrain. So you can still move your armies around the province if you wish but you will never be able to conquer it (nor would you want to).


Idea about dead zones is excellent! The same use IBFD with so called Locus Slavi province, which is unconquerable. This province is the largest and covers forests and steppes in modern Russia. The settlement is surrounded by forest and can’t be conquered. And I like it!



Wow. I cant thank you enough for actually replying. I was beginning to think that id been wasting my energy posting the updates on this forum.


Ah, don’t worry. People will come. All are now in hysteria called “M2 TW demo” and why I can’t play it because my processor doesn’t support SSE2.

Anyway, look what happening to us in our major thread in twcenter.net. We are spammed with Portuguese who want to force us to include Portugal in MTR. More and more come (obviously multiply accounts) and spam our thread! Not to mention how they offense again and again our leader and deputy.

So, be happy because people here in .org are much more relaxed.

[niccolo il discourser]

Quietus,

How do you make these?

And how do you place them into your post?

Obviously I am new.

Grazie

Osservo in avanti alla vostra risposta

[niccolo il discourser]

Can you edit your language once you have posted?

I was referring to "sig" of Quietus for Mediaeval Auctoriso

[ElectricEel]

And how do you place them into your post? Easiest way to do this is, while posting, to click on the picture that looks like this https://img157.imageshack.us/img157/9083/uusibittikarttalx5.png on the posting toolbar. Your browser will ask for the web address where the image is located, and add the necessary tags to the post you are writing. It is a good idea to use the preview function to verify that the image works properly before posting (especially for junior members here, as we can't edit our posts). The image needs to be hosted somewhere on the web; Imageshack (https://imageshack.us/) is good for that unless the site you're posting the image on gets huge amounts of traffic (which might cause the image to be removed due to using too much bandwidth).

Note that junior members cannot put links to external websites in their signatures. This also means no images hosted on them; this site does have its own upload service for signature and avatar pictures, found here (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Uploaders/picupload.php), but I haven't tried if it works for junior members.


Can you edit your language once you have posted? You need to be a full member before you can edit your posts. If you want to know more about that, you should read section II of the the Guild FAQ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45416) if you haven't already.

[Duncan_Hardy]

Very interesting faction preview; it's nice to see the North Africans/Muslim Colonists of NA being given the attention to detail that is their due (all too often they are seen only in the context of the Reconquista).

The glimpse you've given of their unit roster looks very interesting - that said their cultural assimilation map seems very challenging (looks like you will be building your better units from NA the whole time and shipping them everywhere). I don't know how Pirennian you are in your view of the Western Mediterranean in the medieval period, but I'm hoping for some naval bonuses for the faction to counterbalance their likely disadvantages in most of Europe.

[shifty157]

Actually their Cultural Assimilation map is no more difficult than anyone other faction's.

Our goal is also that you wont be forced to build your best units in your core provinces and ship them to the front. Youll be more than capable of assembling a solid army from the regional units that youll find in any given area of the map.

AS to their navy. The Almoravids never had a sizeable navy and didnt even have a single ship to their name until late in their reign. Indeed when they tried to seige the coastal town of Ceuta they were forced to ask the taifa states to borrow their navies because they didnt have one. Of course they then had to return the favor which resulted in their first excursion into spain in defense of the taifa states not long afterward. This resulted in the crushing of Alphonso VI's army outside of Seville by Yusuf ibn Tashfin.

The Moors will actually be quite an underdog especially as the game progresses and the european armies progress and become more powerful while the Moorish armies really dont progress and more or less stagnate. More than almost any other faction the Moors will have to rely on recruiting regional armies from the locals as their empire grows.

[DukeofSerbia]

I have one question, regardless of update #4.

Will Serbia be faction because in one of the previous previews Serbia was in the map?

[alpaca]

That is currently an object of discussion within the team, so we can't make any definite statements there.

[DukeofSerbia]

Thanks on the quick answer, alpaca.