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View Full Version : WotS The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV



econ21
10-19-2006, 23:54
This thread is devoted to in-character communications about the Rome Total Realism Platinum PBM explained here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65972

For all out of character business - including volunteering to join the campaign - please post in the out of character thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=67616

This thread should be for Senate business only.

On a personal note, I will post in two strictly separate capacities: as Senate Speaker (which I will preface by SENATE SPEAKER and write in normal type) and as an ordinary participant (which I will preface by the name of my avatar, currently Quintus, and write in italics).

During formal sessions of the Senate (every 10 turns of the game), motions can be proposed. Each motion requires TWO seconders before it can be voted on.

*******************************************************
ANNOUNCEMENT: Emergency session of Senate!

Voting will open at noon UK time, Tuesday, and close the same time on Wednesday.

Emergency motion 2: This House impeachs Servius Aemilius for unconstitutionally taking the Republic to war with Iberia. It immediately removes him from office. (Note: requires 2/3 majority)
Proposed: Numerius Aureolus
Seconded: Tiberius Coruncanius, Cnaeus Caprarius, Lucius Aemilius

Emergency motion 3: This House impeachs Servius Aemilius for the murder of UPS Maximus on the Senate floor. It immediately removes him from office and orders him kept under permanent house arrest at Palma. (Note: requires 2/3 majority)
Proposed: Numerius Aureolus
Seconded: Tiberius Coruncanius, Cnaeus Caprarius

Emergency Motion 4: No Roman army is allowed to enter Italy, except: small city garrisons which are to remain in cities; and newly trained troops which must be deployed away from Italy as soon as they are ready to do so. The northern boundary of Italy is defined as the limit of the regions of the cities of Arretium and Ariminum. This is a constitutional amendment.
Proposed: Tiberius Coruncanius
Seconded: Lucius Aemilius, Numerius Aureolus

Emergency motion 5: Because of excessive abuse of power, Servius Aemilius is immediately removed from office, banished from Italy and loses all rights as a Roman citizen.
Proposed: Lucius Aemilius
Seconded: Appius Barbatus, Numerius Aureolus, Luca Mamillus

Emergency motion 6: Because of excessive abuse of power, Servius Aemilius is to be considered an enemy of the state. It is the duty of any freedom-loving Roman to kill him on sight.
Proposed: Lucius Aemilius
Seconded: Tiberius Coruncanius, Numerius Aureolus

Lucjan
10-21-2006, 14:19
Your motion passed senator Verginius, and although it has been a minor irritation to my economic plans, it has not hampered us as much as it potentially could have.

All governors have been temporarily ordered to refuse slave imports, except for myself. While I remain here in Rome, the only slaves delivered throughout the Republic this season will be to the construction fields of the hippodrome.

TinCow
10-22-2006, 14:50
These projects will benefit you whether you like them or not, Consul Aemilius. The plebs care not who legislated them, only who funds them and actually builds them. You may soon find yourself the most publicly celebrated Consul since Marcus Furius Camillus.

Lucjan
10-22-2006, 18:48
These projects will benefit you whether you like them or not, Consul Aemilius. The plebs care not who legislated them, only who funds them and actually builds them. You may soon find yourself the most publicly celebrated Consul since Marcus Furius Camillus.

Senators, if we may take a moment to observe the final entry of senator Augustus Verginius into the archives of these senatorial proceedings and reflect upon his attitude. Augustus took a constant stance of interest in the plebeians. And, perhaps, worked to give them a more comfortable life than what is led by most of our lower house senators on campaign. A noble cause, but, as man is time given form, all time passes, and all men die. In the spring of 499 AUD, Augustus Verginius left this world. However, in his passing, he has completed the final works necessary around Gergovia to seal it off from Iberian movements, and the western frontier with Iberia can now be called complete. I will say more later in the consular report. For now, let us give a moment of silence. :shame:

GeneralHankerchief
10-22-2006, 18:57
Senator Verginius was a noble Roman who worked to spread Roman greatness throughout his career. From the Battle of Bononia, where he fought off a Gallic ambush lead by the Gallic warchief Lucco, to his consulship bringing in much money and the start of the Greek conquest, this man should be a role model to all of us.

It was an honor to serve with him and have him in the Senate. Senator Verginius, you will be missed.

Mount Suribachi
10-22-2006, 21:00
Augustus Verginius is no longer with us.....words fail me at this moment Conscript Fathers.......

That man was as much a pillar of this noble as house as the great columns of stone & marble that surround us. Before I was even born he was a mighty veteran on not one, but two battlefields - the political, and the military. All my life Augustus Verginius has been part of the very fabric of Roman government.

I shall not mourn his passing as much as I shall give thanks to Jupiter Optimus Maximus for blessing us with such a man. I urge the Consul to give him a state funeral.

Lucjan
10-22-2006, 21:07
While Augustus Verginius was a strong opponent of mine, I am not the kind of man to hold a grudge with the dead. He was an honorable man, and in that respect, he will receive a noble funeral. One week from today there shall be a parade in the Roman streets, all goods purchased in the Roman forum will be payed in half by the state coffers, and a lyceum will be commissioned in Syracuse, where the plebeians are in much need of entertainment.

EDIT - A consular report has been filed for the senates review.

It seems while I have been generous in my tribute to Augustus's passing, my uncle Marcellus has outdone me. Congratulations Marcellus on the birth of your son, Augustus Aemilius.

Glaucus
10-23-2006, 00:01
May I suggest, Consul, that you send in Roman forces to capture the Island of Salamais from the enemy?

GeneralHankerchief
10-23-2006, 00:12
My hope is that my boy will do half the things that Verginius has accomplished in his lifetime. For that alone will place him in the company of legends.

Lucjan
10-23-2006, 00:13
Cyprus cannot be touched, doing so would be in violation of motion 12.01. Roman expansion will stop at the town of Side, and go no further east under my rule.

Although it is an appealing prospect, it is for later man to consider.

Death the destroyer of worlds
10-23-2006, 09:01
* Lucius Amilius enters the senate in mouring dress, looking old and careworn *

Words fail to describe the grief I feel at the passing of my friend Augustus Verginius. He was one of ther few men left that could still recall when, under the standard of Quintus the Victor, Rome drove the Greeks and Cartheginians out of Italy, turning a tiny nation into a force to be reckoned with. A former consul, who made the word 'Roman' into a byword for defeat and terror for all our enemies, he was also a brilliant general. Who among you has not studied brilliant Gaul campaign ? Aside from his brilliant qualities as a general and statesman, he was a Roman of the old school. Never in his long life did he put his own ambitions before the good of the state, an example I hope you young men take to heart.

* sadness shows in his face as he walks out of the senate, and a few senators can hear him speak to himself *

Now all I have left to talk to is Tiberius, ah, it is a cruel fate to grow old...

Lucjan
10-23-2006, 22:43
Senators, Appius Barbetus has just been given the order to advance on the Ptolemite army holed up on the outskirts of Side. We've spent the last two seasons blocking this army in the province and with the fall of Arsinoe, our route to it has been opened. This will be the most significant battle in our eastern campaign since the expulsion of Seleucia from Thrace. This battle will make or break Roman dominance in Asia Minor by ending the Ptolemite presence on the mainland once and for all. Let us all extend our prayers to Mars for Senator Barbetus's victory.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/252-Appius-Side.zip

Braden
10-24-2006, 09:24
Consul,

Was it also Appius Barbetus who took Arsinoe? I do not see any entries in reports about it falling to us.

I am gladdened that my forces will be rejoined again by our alie who have been missing for so long and that there may be a light at the end of the tunnel for my men. More duties elswhere perhaps? we are all still young.

Lucjan
10-24-2006, 13:14
Senator Barbetus has, in a covert maneouver down the coast, taken Arsinoe from the Seleucids. The lack of any public mention was to avoid the Seleucids warning the Ptolemites ahead of time. Let's face it, enemies they may be, but a chance for them to break a Roman army together would be enough to unite them for at least a moment.

As for your legion, Manius, I will be honest with you. The future of Rome is now with consolidation. We have reached our limits in the eastward push, but cannot now withdraw the legions there without suffering events that would cost us dearly. To move you west at such a critical time would be folly. Defending the Republic may not seem, at first glance, to be as glorious as conquest, but taking such a view could not place one farther from the truth. I would lay my very life down if the meant the defence and salvation of Rome, but I would not so much as entertain the thought of conquest unless I was absolutely certain I could win.

As the situation stands, I wish the state of affairs to become as such by the end of my consulship.

The East - Manius Coruncanius will hold two forts in the central riverlands of the Ancyran plateau. Appius Barbetus will defend a fort at the mountain pass near Heracleia. Numerious Aureolus will defend a fort near the straits of Cyprus. The eastern consular fleet will reside in the port at Smyrna, with two sub admirals endowed with 3 ships each at Rhodes and Sparta, for the purpose of pirate and stray foreign navy watchers.

Carthage - Oppius Aemilius will reside in Tingi, in preparation for the Iberian war. I myself, will reside in Palma, also, awaiting the Iberian war. The western fleet will be split into two praetorian size fleets, one stationed in the port at Tingi, the other at the port in Palma. Flavius Pacuvius will be mobilised within the region on the central fleet, ready to respond wherever necessary.

Italia, Hellas, Macedonia, Illyria - Various Upper house generals will be allocated to our cities where order and good governance are of significant need.

Danube - Lucius Aemilius, Quintus Libo and Tiberius Coruncanius will oversee the continued defence of the Danube.

Transalpine Gaul - Marcellus Aemilius will take over in Gergovia when he is finished in Carthage, and Cornelius Saturninus will take over command of the Comata legion. I will be relocating Servius Nero to act as Tribune for senator Saturninus, he is an adopted son of Quintus Libo and, regardless of being an upper house general, has proven of significant capabilities against the Thracians near Oduba. He could learn much as a tribune, and become a promising lower house general in the future.

This is the general plan, but you never seem to know with the world these days, anything here can change.

Tamur
10-24-2006, 15:04
(hastily scribbled letter from Appius)

My men and I are closing on Side. Good morale after the fall of Arsinoe despite the phalangites. My apologies to the Senate for a lack of report but in all respect, my duties have lain with my troops at this most pressing time. Will report again after the inevitable and bloody fall of those Ptolemite dogs at Side.

Vale.

Tamur
10-24-2006, 19:39
Fellow members of the Senate,

Side is ours.

I can only claim that my men, especially the cavalry, were not only strong and tireless in their execution of my commands, but also frightening for our enemies to behold! Our cavalry mercenaries in particular defied the enemy to break them, and in large measure they have won this victory.

I myself took part in the fighting only to have the pleasure of putting Antigonos Auletes to the sword myself. It is a pleasure fraught with difficulties to slay one who, were he not a Ptolemy, could possibly have been a noble member of our own company. What will happen to his wife? His aged parents and his children? These question plague me as I write this message. The fear in his eyes as he knew I had battered his sword away for the last time is something I will not forget soon.

It is with sorrow also that I note that my noble and trusted record keeper, Marcus Vibanius, fell to a stray javelin from some Ptolemite skirmisher. I will fill his position as quickly as possible, but because of his fall I have only pictures of the first half of the battle for Side.

I will post a full report soon. In summary, the enemy fielded well over 1500 troops to our 1000. They had perhaps a dozen leave the field, while nearly 900 of ours walked away from the field under their own power.

Truly the gods have blessed us this day!

econ21
10-25-2006, 20:09
[A letter from NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senators, while private matters are preventing me from taking up duties in the Lower House, it is with a sense of shock that I learn of the death of my father-in-law, Augustus Verginius. Although we had become estranged over time, he was a most formiddable Roman who cut a swathe across any foe unfortunate enough to cross his path in battle (and some will say, in the Senate too). My wife, his daughter, is of course deeply saddened. I will make offerings to the gods in thanks for a life well lived. With sons like that, can anyone doubt Rome's destiny?

Lucjan
10-31-2006, 01:00
I am pleased to report that the finalisation of the eastern border is 75% complete.

Side and Adana will from this point on mark the locations of Rome's two easternmost settlements, and both will be host to consular sized legions under the command of senators Manius Coruncanius, and Numerious Aureolus with Appius Barbetus as tribune.

Forts have been constructed at the two river crossings in central Galatia, where Manius Coruncanius is fighting a battle now, protecting our eastern border on this front. Another has been constructed at the land crossing between mainland Asia Minor and the isle of Cyprus.

All that is left is to clear out Prusa when we can acquire some freed up forces from the garrisons and to take Heracleia.

SwordsMaster
11-03-2006, 12:44
I have been contemplating the events quietly from the cities entrusted to my command, senators, but I believe that this moment of relative tranquility is a good one to shift the focus of our consul to the education and development of our governors. I feel like my own skills have been wasted in the dull and inactive life of governorship, and I believe that there are many others who would feel that way too.

I will propose a motion addressing this issue in the next senatorial session, but I wish to put this forward to the consul's consideration.

Lucjan
11-04-2006, 02:26
*There is a clearly irritated look from the consul.*

If any wasting has been done it's been done by yourself Senator Mamilus. Someone who has said absolutely nothing for the the last several years, not to this senatorial body nor to myself personally, has no place to complain now that he is bored and his life is dull. Our governors are placed where they are to ensure stability throughout the Republic, I will not go about maneouvering them all and risking revolt and dissension because you feel bored due to your own inability to be proactive in the events of these discussions. I have one piece of advice for you senator.

Get a hobby, and don't waste my time.

SwordsMaster
11-06-2006, 15:38
My dear consul, you of all people should know, that the most useful person is not the one who shouts loudest. Or would you have us ruled by those market traders who sell vegetables and shout to attract customers?

I have been following the events, reading the reports and voting on the motions, even though I abstained from proposing them and shouting out my opinions, as the motions concerned mostly the military aspects of administration. If you, in your blindness refuse to accept criticism from one who cares for other things but war, I have to question what kind of consul you are. Are you a politician or a butcher who likes nothing better than feeling the blood running through your fingers?

You claim I am bored. Maybe I get mistresses and slaves to entertain myself, but I do not butcher roman sons to do so.

Lucjan
11-07-2006, 21:49
...you know senator, perhaps you should be allowed to entertain yourself more. Perhaps you should be moved to the front lines near Iberia. Your opinion of my accomplishments may change when you run fleeing like a coward in your first battle.

SwordsMaster
11-08-2006, 15:16
...you know senator, perhaps you should be allowed to entertain yourself more. Perhaps you should be moved to the front lines near Iberia. Your opinion of my accomplishments may change when you run fleeing like a coward in your first battle.

I will do my best to justify your trust in my abilities, consul. I am sure you would not just waste my life away because of your personal dislike of my person.

You know, with 10 years of military service behind my back, an accusation of cowardice speaks more in your detriment than mine, consul.

Lucjan
11-08-2006, 18:28
Serving in the legion does not mean you've actually fought a battle senator. There are many governors with many years service in the legion, it doesn't mean they've ever actually thrust a sword into a man's flesh.

I don't need to waste your life away because I don't like you, you said it yourself you've wasted your own life away. Now stop wasting mine with your pitiful whimpering.

SwordsMaster
11-08-2006, 21:28
Serving in the legion does not mean you've actually fought a battle senator. There are many governors with many years service in the legion, it doesn't mean they've ever actually thrust a sword into a man's flesh.

I don't need to waste your life away because I don't like you, you said it yourself you've wasted your own life away. Now stop wasting mine with your pitiful whimpering.

Of course, consul. Thank you for your attention, consul. I shall resume my silent contemplation of the barbarous ways imposed to this our republic, consul.

econ21
11-10-2006, 10:33
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Legate Mamillus, do not worry, your qualities are not overlooked by all who serve the Republic.

Senators, I believe now is the time to discuss Rome's future direction. The Consul has done a superb job bringing down Carthage. She now stands as an empty shell of her former self, her generals skulking in barren desert provinces while Roman civilisation begins to take root in her great cities.

Where now should Rome look for the next challenge? Senators, I believe we face a clear choice: east or west?

There are some here, I fear the Consul himself is among them, who believe the right direction is west. There are calls here to prepare for war against Iberia. I support those calls. Those who wish for peace should prepare for war. Strengthening our western defences is only prudent.

But I emphatically do not support the demand that we start a war of aggression. It would be reckless and bloodthirsty to start a new war with Iberia. Have we forgotten that we are still engaged in four other bloody wars - with Seleucia, Ptolemy, Thrace and Carthage? Only this season, Praetor Coruncanius had to fend off a Consular sized army of Thracians. Senators, we have enough fighting on our hands already! Senators, a war of aggression is not the Roman way. We do not start wars - we finish them! To spill the blood of Romans and innocents for mere conquest and greed is dishonorable. But there is no greater honour than to fight to defend our homeland and to end war.

Senators, it may be that the day will come when we must strike Iberia. If, like Gaul under the reign of Consul Lucius Aemillus, she marches into our lands and clearly intends to strike at us, then a pre-emptive move would be justified. Indeed, the constitution allows such a strike without a Senate vote for a declaration of war. But that day has not yet come. Iberian armies do sometimes wander deep into our lands. But successive Consuls have shown great restraint and the wandering Iberians have done no harm to us. Iberia does not intend to attack us at this time.

This has been proved beyond all doubt by the current Consul. His stunning and bold Viberi maneouvre, which I opposed, showed beyond all doubt that Iberia is not presently interested in taking our settlements - even if offered up undefended. She is fixed on her war with Germania and for as long as that continues, we may be able to avoid war with her. I say we let sleeping dogs lie. Indeed, we should support our ally Germania, with gifts of gold, to keep this conflict running for as long as possible.

Instead of launching a great conflagration in the west, I say this: let us use this window of opportunity to settle old scores in the east. Seleucia and Ptolemy are still great powers, with vast hinterland resources. Only this season, we have seen Prusa - a settlement well within our borders - stand against us, as rebels loyal to Seleucia. Let us move decisively against these vile Successor states. Do not forget their unprovoked attacks on us. Do not forget the Co-Consul, my mentor, Publis Pansa, lying dead on the field at Maronia. Do not forget their armies ranging deep into Thrace, forcing Lucius Aemilius to adopt scorched earth tactics while we scrambled to muster the men needed to stop them. Let us not let them regain their former strength. If pitiful Thrace can summon up a Consular army to try to breach our frontier, how many such armies do we think Seleucia and Ptolemy can produce in the next six years? No, passivity in the face of such potential, such danger, is folly.

Senators, after the next election, I plead with you: unleash me. Let Legio V and the other armies of the east march. Let us march, yes, right down to Antioch. But then further - to the Nile and to destroy Ptolemy. Let us seize the western cities of Seleucia - rip out her heart and let Parthia and the other eastern factions feast on her dying corpse. Our future must not be a war without end. We must impose a Pax Romana and allow our citizens to enjoy the fruits of their labours, without the burden of endless military campaigns.

Senators, we have sat on the defensive in the east for too long. It offers vastly richer pickings than Gaul and Iberia. It houses our real enemies - factions of great power. The east is where we must go. Turning west would only needlessly create new enemies and deliver a few barbarian villages.

In the past, I have been accused of warmongering, of recklessly pressing for expansion in the east. Those charges were false, baseless lies. I started no wars, but merely worked hard to end two: with Macedon and Greece. This I achieved: my men slew the last King of Macedon and the last King of Greece. I say - let us provide the same service to the oppressed peoples of the Kingdoms of Seleucia and Ptolemy.

The lies told against me were malliciously spun by a vast Aemilli conspiracy seeking to set up myself and Praetor Coruncanius in order to advance the political ambitions of my late step-father, Augustus Verginius and Marcellus Aemillius. Unforeseen events frustrated that coalition but I fear it is on the march again. My step-father may rest in the earth, perhaps roaming the underworld in search of more Gauls to slay. But Marcellus still stands, frustrated but powerful - the de facto ruler of Afrika. I have no doubt he regards as his right the Consulship, which was his to claim four years ago but which he fumbled. He is resentful of his nephew assuming power before him and will stop at little to secure what he considers rightly his.

But this time things are different from when the lies were first told against me. Now we are indisputably at war in east and it is my rivals, not me, who stand as the warmongers. And it is expansion in the west that is reckless, while an advance eastwards is only prudent. I say we move east and I intend to stand for Consul on that platform. Who will stand behind me?

Braden
11-10-2006, 13:20
Senators,

I for one would like nothing better than to finally settle our issues with the Seleucids. Placed as I am, on our far Eastern border and with a Consular sized formation, it seems that I am ideally placed to strike against our enemies here and put these whelps to flight.

I am, at the behest of the Republic and will follow her instruction to the letter.

Manius

Lucjan
11-10-2006, 13:55
Numerious, are you so bold as to presume to make a bid for the next consulship before mine has even ended? This does not insult me, it shows ambition, willingness to carry on my actions where I have left off.

However..I do not feel that such extensive eastward expansion would yet benefit the strengths of the Republic. If Marcellus promises to maintain the borders "as is" in our Asian lands, when my consulship ends, I will stand behind him should he make a bid for the consulship. Provided there is nothing of any significance that I would have to dispute him on.

As for the specifics of my stance on Asia...I would agree to expansion only to the settlement of Sinope and the isle of Cyprus.

Tamur
11-10-2006, 21:09
(letter from Appius Barbatus)

I for one, Senators, will stand with Senator Aureolus on this issue. I have been here in the East for some time now, seeing the people and buildings and farms and mines of these new provinces. And there is wealth here beyond anything that Iberia could offer; anything, I say, short of Rome itself.

Copper mines? Pah. Let us talk of iron, gold, rubies, diamonds, trees of myrrh and cyprus, and the black water they burn here instead of tallow. All these riches, and only the ghosts of what once were the mighty empires of Seleucia and Aegyptus to face for them.

How can we possibly consider taking the war to Iberia? In six years do we wish to give our legionaries land for their families where they must live in the mud hovels of the barbarians? Or do we wish to give them a reward fitting to their unwavering service, a land rich in civilisation and wealth?

The citizens of Seleucia and the Ptolemites cry out to us to free them, to bring the peace of good Roman government, of law, the Gods, and the legions. Let us not lay aside this opportunity, or spill good Roman blood to defeat dirty-haired barbarians who will give us nothing in return but their fleas.

GeneralHankerchief
11-10-2006, 22:46
Ah, our esteemed Numerius Aureolus makes his presence known once again in our hallowed halls. I almost missed his ranting and warmongering in here. Almost.


But I emphatically do not support the demand that we start a war of aggression.


Senators, after the next election, I plead with you: unleash me. Let Legio V and the other armies of the east march. Let us march, yes, right down to Antioch. But then further - to the Nile and to destroy Ptolemy. Let us seize the western cities of Seleucia - rip out her heart and let Parthia and the other eastern factions feast on her dying corpse. Our future must not be a war without end. We must impose a Pax Romana and allow our citizens to enjoy the fruits of their labours, without the burden of endless military campaigns.

:laugh4: Come on, Senator. You used to be much more persuasive than this. And I am anything but the de facto ruler of Afrika. As we speak, I am currently marching to the minor port of Lepcis Magna with a Praetorian-sized force, while Flavius Pacuvius commands his mighty army and takes the major coastal cities.

Senator Aureolus' words betray him. Listen to his language. "Unleash me," he says. He wishes to take Legio V all the way down the Levant to the Nile in order "to destroy Ptolemy." And then, for Seleucia, he wants to "rip out her heart and let Parthia and the other eastern factions feast on her dying corpse."

And he calls me a warmonger. Wow.

Our Eastern border is now stable, thanks to the motion passed in the midterm session. But once the Carthaginian Expedition is finished, we will now border Iberia pretty much everywhere. From the Strait of Gibralter to the forests of Germania, there will be a tense peace between the two great powers of the West. Soon, it will break. They are barbarians, they know nothing other than war. We much teach them, brand it into them, that war with Rome is folly.

If we head east, we risk disturbing our borders and making Rome no longer the center of the Republic. But if we go west, we further secure our borders, get rid of an extremely dangerous enemy, and, once again, making Rome the center and most important city of our great Republic.

TinCow
11-10-2006, 23:03
I also stand with Senator Aureolus. Our many wars have begun for numerous different reasons, but our objectives have always been the same: benefits for the Roman people, be they in security, wealth, slaves, or other things. There is little to be gained from Iberia. The barbarians are of little threat to our trained Legions, especially with the strong border that Consul Servius Aemilius has so masterfully constructed.

Yet in the East, Seleucia and Ptolemy control vast and prosperous territories. With Italy, Greece, Macedon and Carthage already under our control, the Eastern territories are the only rich lands in the known world not subject to Republican rule. Wars must be fought for the benefit of the Roman people. There is no benefit to be had in Iberian territories. Let us continue to push eastwards.

econ21
11-11-2006, 01:51
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: I am grateful for the support from some of my esteemed colleagues in the Senate.

Marcellus, you do realise that a warmonger is someone who starts wars? And not someone who finishes them? Here, we have another name for a man, like myself, who wants to defeat his enemies and works relentlessly to achieve that. We call him a Roman.

If you propose merely to wait for war to break out with Iberia, I have no quarrel with you and apologise for ascribing to you a position you do not hold. But if you seek to start that war, then you do indeed deserve the name of a warmonger.

Tell us, Senator, suppose you were not the de facto ruler of Afrika, but of Rome herself, what would you have us do?

Braden
11-13-2006, 18:16
Numerius, if the very thought of Marcellus as a de-facto ruler of anywhere wasn’t so abhorrent to me I’d be rolling down the Senate steps in fits of uncontrolled laughter!

I would only entrust any Roman state to the hands of only one member of that esteemed family and he is already Consul. *laughs heartily*

Senators,

I believe we have many choices to make here. Firstly, to our West we have a “potential” enemy….Iberia, a barbarian horde who have shown thus far that they are naught but hot air and bluster. Let me assure the Senate that I have absolutely NO delusions in this matter and that should the Iberians be so foolish and suicidal as to start a war with the Republic, then our forces already on the border will be more than capable of taking that war to them and enslaving every smelly one of them!

To our West lies a “potential” war only, and only, poor lands…cold and heartless lands that no true Roman citizen would enjoy trying to claw a living from.

To our East however…..to our East lies the Successor states, states that HAVE started a war with us, a war that continues even now. Do my men bleed un-noticed by the Senate!?! Whilst I feel that Numerius is perhaps rather bold in what he proposes, there certainly is merit in an extended campaign to finally destroy the Successor states of Alexander of Macedonia.

For once and for all we can crush the very image of his cruel conquests, and elevate Rome onto a new level….the true Successor State of Alexander perhaps, perhaps not, but certainly the new mantel, the new leaders of this world.

We are the new light bringing hope and prosperity to the world, and ever since our armies ventured forth against the Greeks all those years hence, we have ever been the bringers of prosperity, enlightenment, organised government and peace through just rule and law.

Not only are the Successor states at the end of their ebb as a power in this world of ours, but they also control great wealth. A wealth that has done nothing but corrupt their Rulers and Kings, a wealth that still eludes the greater mass of their people.

We, Senators, our beloved Republic is one of the very few states that can say it is still firmly governed by its people and in their best interests. Those other states that may hold claim to such lofty goals are minor compared to our power in both arms and economics.

I say it falls upon us! To continue our good work, to extend our Republic as far as we may and extend our knowledge and benevolent government to those oppressed peoples in the East.

Lucjan
11-13-2006, 22:03
It seems decided then. Our work in fortifying the frontiers has been completed almost in its entirety. Finishing Carthage's last coastal lands in the west is all that truly remains, and then our focus can be extended solely to the east. I will leave the next consul with a Rome that has never before been so secure in her own borders, is growing ever more secure and happy in her own lands, and is ready to take on the task of putting the remaining successor states in their place, beneath the foot of Roman might!

Braden
11-13-2006, 22:13
*Manius claps and cheers!*

Hear! hear! well said!

Tamur
11-14-2006, 05:56
Do I indeed hear no dissenting voice besides our esteemed but misguided colleage, Marcellus Aemilius? It is indeed a strange day in the Senate, what odd events await us?

Lucjan
11-14-2006, 13:46
Indeed, even I seem to be left uncontested in my thoughts. Truly this must mean the end of the world. *Servius laughs cynically.*

GeneralHankerchief
11-14-2006, 22:31
Conscript fathers, it seems as if I am this body's new whipping boy for my dissent of further eastward expansion. If this be the case, very well, but I will not take it lying down.

It is clear that we Romans are now a conquering people. Do not argue with me on this. In the last 30 years we have exponentially grown. Anyone who believes otherwise is either lying to himself or a fool. Look at the current situation. Now that our campaign in North Afrika is wrapping up, the talk of where to expand next starts.

Since we have established the fact that we love to expand, should we not have a moral reason for doing so? Think about it. In his push to expand eastwards, my esteemed colleague Numerius Aureolus wishes to smash through the Levant, all on the basis of "avenging our honor."

Really, hasn't that excuse gone far enough?

Of course he would say such a thing. Senator Aureolus, after all, is a military man far and above anything else. If you can remember, he snuck to Greece at the age of 12, not only choosing not to spend the optional four years after the age of 16 at the Scriptorium in Roma, but dropping out four years early! Of course he wants to conquer and get as much glory as he can. It's all the good Senator knows.

The man's fire for glory and military recognition will consume everything in its path. And I mean everything. Never mind the intellectual and educational facilities that Alexander, his supposed "ancestor," brought to the area 75 years ago. Aureolus' desire to get to the Nile is probably fueled by his wish to burn down the great Library at Alexandria! Is this the man whose example we want to be following?

No, Senators. Instead of destroying education and knowledge, I submit that we should instead aim to bring it to those without it. I am, of course, speaking of the Iberians.

These people are still stuck behind the old tribal system, hopelessly behind militarily. Obviously we would easily crush them. But it may shock some people that conquest should not be our objective in the area. We should bring these people into the fold of the good side.

A bastion of education and light lies a mountain pass away for these people and you insist on conquering far away civilizations. Why not, instead, civilize the Iberian tribes? We would bring education, learning, and hope to the people of that empire. Surely, Conscript fathers, that is the more noble goal, helping a people instead of simply conquering and destroying them.

flyd
11-15-2006, 02:31
What a most excellent idea you have there, Senator Aemilius. We shall exert ourselves to bring education and knowledge to barbarians. I say we get started right away! We ought to disband our legions and replace them with mobile brigades of Greek tutors, who will charge at Iberian settlements and armies, and teach geometry and philosophy at them until they turn into Romans! Yes, that's sure to work.

All sarcasm aside, let me make something perfectly clear. I look out for the Roman people. I look out for no other people, not Iberians, not Greeks. I don't care to give them anything, I don't care to educate them. The best they can hope from me is to be ignored, and sometimes even that's not possible given Roman interests. Anybody who wishes to kill Romans must die. There can be no peace until our enemies are destroyed. This is how I feel. This is how every good Roman Senator feels. If you aim to represent the interests of any people other than the Romans, then you do not belong in this Senate, and you are certainly not to be allowed to run the Roman state!

No Roman has ever died at the hands of the Iberians. Although they are stupid and reckless, so long as this holds, they have earned a possibility of being ignored. This cannot be said of those in the east.

You, Senator Aemilius, think you discredit Senator Aureolus by saying that he is a military man with little formal education, but I think you discredit yourself. I think you have spent too much time at the academy and not enough time in the field. A military man is exactly the sort of man needed to lead Rome. It is obvious that in your short time in the field in Afica, that you have not learned what the price of conquest is. It's blood, you know. I will see no Roman son die to bring knowledge and education to a foreign people who don't want it anyway. Not even if they did want it, not even if they were begging for it.

Senator Aureolus proposes to destroy our enemies and take their gold, which we can use for the benefit of the Roman people. That is an appropriate reason for war. If you want to call for a new war, you may, but you damn well better make the argument for it in terms of how it will help Romans, more than it will cost.

Tamur
11-15-2006, 14:25
(letter from Appius Barbatus)

I write hearing of yet another brilliant victory for Manius Coruncanius. Truly his leadership is inspiring for us here in the East, and inspiring for those at home. It is a rare thing indeed for battles to be so one-sided in their outcome, and all to the glory of Rome.

Well done, Manius!

Braden
11-15-2006, 16:08
Senator Appius Barbatus,

You do me great honour in your words. Truth is that perhaps these victories are becoming too easy for my men now, truth is they crave challenges that I cannot give them.

Senators,

It does beg one question that occurs to me, that perhaps the Senate can advise me upon.

At what point is it deemed that an army can be disbanded?

We promise our citizen soldiers much, and certainly those in my army have earned much and gained much in booty over these few years……..is it three years now?.......but they remain in service to the Republic as soldiers still and cannot enjoy that wealth and status they have secured.

We continue to take casualties, excepting the last engagement, and I have three Cohorts below half strength. Do I continue to order them to fight until the Cohort is utterly destroyed or do the survivors deserve release back to be private citizens in our Republic? At what level is this acceptable for the Senate, when half are left, when a quarter….when a tenth?

I am young and still have much I can give the Republic both as warrior and statesman, what I wish is a resolution for my men.

They wish for nothing more than land to till and farm, women to marry, to start good solid Roman families….to perhaps live the remainder of their lives as honest, good Romans, paying taxes and remembering what glory they have brought to our Republic.

I do not believe I could deign them any less.

Now, I must leave as I have news of yet another battle I am to fight defending this border.

Braden
11-15-2006, 17:20
OOC: Ok, Edit not working for some reason – just to let you know that I’ve noticed my appalling grammar as well “Truth is that perhaps these victories are becoming too easy for my men now, truth is they crave challenges that I cannot give them” – eekk!!

Obviously what I should have put was “Truth is that perhaps, these victories are becoming too easy for my men now, and they crave challenges that I cannot grant them”….

……there, that’s better.

Braden
11-16-2006, 22:22
Senators,

I bring you another victory and another 19 brave corpses.....456 enemy lay dead for their lives and...

...I ask again that you consider my previous request for my men.

Manius

(OOC Battle report tomorrow)

econ21
11-17-2006, 18:25
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: I would like to congratulate Manius Coruncanius on yet another fine addition to his collection of victories. Your honorific, "the Victor", is indeed well earned.

On your request, I applaud your concern for your men. You show it with your careful deployments on the battlefield and again now on the Senate floor. And I agree that a unit of 20 infantry is too small to be functional in battle.

However, I would be reluctant for us to disband our veterans. It would seem better to send replacements to bring the cohorts back to strength, rather than disband them wholesale.

Senator, we are, I believe, agreed that there is a lot of fighting in the east still to be done. You can be assured that the successor states will not react to their defeats at your hands by disbanding their formations.

You say your veterans are finding their battles too easy and seek greater challenges. For such men, I doubt that a life back on the farm is their natural calling. I would rather we lead them, together, towards the Nile and beyond into the Seleucid heartland. In such a venture, they would find the challenges they seek.

I know our soldiers are Roman citizens who expect in due course to be released back to civilian life. However, given how far the Republic has come, and the demands of maintaining our new territories, I wonder whether this system is efficient or indeed can continue much longer?

You may have heard of a young Senator, Gaius Marius, who is now touting his ideas of creating a grand army of the Republic - a professional standing force. I am suspicious of the motives of the Senator and do not feel the time is yet right for such reforms. But I do believe that the time for such change is fast approaching and we must look forward, and not be beholden to the old ways of the past.

Braden
11-17-2006, 23:47
Hmmm...personally, Senator, I would be cautious of this man Marius.

It would indeed to have a perminantly standing army but isn't it giving too much perminant power to one individual be they Tribune or Consul?

I would like to review his proposals in detail however, I will never dismiss forward thinkers without study.

On your point of my men....I would consider a replacement unit but I strongly feel that these 20 men have done their duty fully, and with honour.

They deserve retirement.

However, I will await what the Senate majority holds on this matter.

Perhaps it will be a proposal for the next Consular elections?

Manius

Dutch_guy
11-18-2006, 00:32
This young man, Marius, is a new man. One who I have been following intently over the last few months. His progressive military thoughts are interesting to say the least, and I think we should discuss them further.

He's already proven himself to be a worthy politician, and his ideas - especially concerning the troops - are very interesting to say the least. Standing, and State paid armies could be the thing of the future for all we know.

We should at least discuss this, or maybe even vote on the matter as my esteemed colleague Manius already mentioned.

- Flavius.

:balloon2:

Death the destroyer of worlds
11-18-2006, 12:51
I wish to compliment my son Marcellus on his noble views to bring Roman Civilization to the barbarian Iberians. I agree with Tiberius however, that we should not fight the Iberians unprovoked. Don't we have enough enemies to satisfy us ? As an aside, I wish to compliment our commanders on their string of victories.
I find this premature quabbling for the consul seat on the senate floor distasteful. Are there not other channels to discuss this matter more privately ? Nevertheless, I feel I must enter the debate now it is in the open. Numerius Aureolus is a capable general and a very ambitious man, but I feel he has taken up too much of the characteristics of our current consul to be a good choice. In our Republic a true leader should lead by moral example as well. I want a man as consul who gets the support of the senate because he can persuade them his goals are justified, not one who will browbeat the senators into submission. We might as well elect a King and be done with it otherwise.
For now, Marcellus has my full backing instead.

Lucjan
11-18-2006, 14:34
Interesting, grandfather, how when once you accused me of taking on too many of the traits of Numerious Aureolus, you now accuse him of taking on too many of my traits.

Please do make up your mind.

flyd
11-25-2006, 04:57
I hereby request that the Senate Speaker immediately calls an emergency session of the Senate on the grounds that the current Consul has apparently gone insane, and has indicated the desire to exceed his own authority.

Tamur
11-25-2006, 07:47
(letter from Appius Barbatus)

Can we not simply let the matter lie for a bit? I've been pulled from my baths and oil treatment just now with this news of an emergency session of the Senate, and I do not like it! Besides, my wife has finally decided on how to arrange the furniture in the bedroom -- hardly a time to leave and return to Rome.

But, I will do as I am called upon to do, despite the sacrifices.

Mount Suribachi
11-25-2006, 10:31
I hereby request that the Senate Speaker immediately calls an emergency session of the Senate on the grounds that the current Consul has apparently gone insane, and has indicated the desire to exceed his own authority.

Senator Coruncanius, I see no need for an emergency session, the Consulshop of Servius Aemilius will end very soon, and I'm sure whatever is bothering you can wait till then. Otherwise we will have an emergency session, and as soon as it is closed we will have to have another session!

I know Tiberius that when a man gets to your age time is short, but history flows ever onward and the sands of time flow with no regard for the age of mortal men.

econ21
11-25-2006, 12:38
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Praetor Coruncanius's calls for an emergency session of Senate to impeach the Consul.

Before we rush to judgement, let us first review the achievements of our Consul. His recovery of our position in the east at the start of his term in office was masterful. As was his conquest of Afrika, with seemingly only a single Praetorian army. His withdrawal from Viberi was a bold manouvre, but pulled off with assurance.

Senators, in all honesty, I say this: the record of the current Consul is as great as, and in my opinion outshines, that of any of his illustrious predecessors. And in this, I do not exclude my esteemed friend, the venerable fighter, Praetor Coruncanius.

Therefore, in the emergency session of Senate, I will propose the following motion:

Emergency motion 1: This House awards Servius Aemilius a triumph for his campaigns in Afrika and the east.

However, we must also consider the accusations that Praetor Coruncanius has made. He says that the Consul has started a war without authority. Senators, it is true, we are at war with Iberia. And it is also true that, under the constitution, only the Senate can authorise a declaration of war. Senators, I know I have been away a while, but I do not recall the Consul even informing the Senate about his intention to start a war with Iberia, let alone seeking out authorisation for it.

So what are we to conclude from all this? Senators, I am afraid there can be only one conclusion. The Consul has rode roughshod over our most fundamental laws and started an unconstitutional war of aggression. He has brought upon us that great conflaggration that successive Consuls have skillfully managed to avoid. We have been close neighbours of Iberia since the time of Lucius Aemilius, but incredibly Iberia alone of our neighbours has not turned on us.

Therefore, in the emergency session of Senate, I will therefore also propose the following motion:

Emergency motion 2: This House impeachs Servius Aemilius for unconstitutionally taking the Republic to war with Iberia. It immediately removes him from office.

Senator Oppius Aemilius, you say we should let the matter lie because the Consul's term is nearly at an end. But does that not make the offence even more egregious? The Consul has deliberately provoked a massive war that he cannot hope to bring to closure. He has thus decided the course of the next Consul, knowing full well that it is quite likely a future Consul may wish to turn east rather than assault Iberia. Indeed, it is clear from the First Consul's report that this war was started precisely to act as a spoiling maneouvre for the next Consulship!

Finally, I wish to address Praetor Coruncanius's charge that the Consul is insane. As I have just pointed out to Oppius, there is reason in the Consul's madness. But the man does seem to act without any moral or social restraint, in a way only the most dangerous of people do. There is one further criminal act of the First Consul's that I believe we should address in the emergency session of Senate:

Emergency motion 3: This House impeachs Servius Aemilius for the murder of UPS Maximus on the Senate floor. It immediately removes him from office and orders him kept under permanent house arrest at Palma.

Senators, I am not a doctor - I do not know if Serivus is insane - and I am not a lawyer - I do not know if a Roman can legally kill his servant. But gratuitous slaying of a public servant by the Head of State on the floor of the House, in front of the entire Senate, is an act that shames us all. In that act, he transformed Rome from a place of law and honour into something no better than a cowed barbarian court lowering itself before a murderous tyrant king. We have debased ourselves before this man for long enough - it is time we got rid of him.

Senators, I come here not to praise the Consul, but to bury him! I second the call for an emergency session of Senate!

econ21
11-25-2006, 12:58
A Senate clerk seems to push a reluctant portly Senate Speaker to the rostrum...

[SENATE SPEAKER]: (sotto voce)... What?? What is this about? We are at war? What?!? With Iberia? What!?! ... (clears throat)... Senators, where is your pity? I am an old man. I was here when Quintus stood before the onslaught of King Pyrrhus. And I was not young then. Never before have I had to face a serious call for an emergency session of Senate. And to call one to impeach a Consul! And one so frighten..., I mean one so, errr, mercurial, as the current Consul. ...(sotto voce:) alas, poor UPS, I knew him well...

(louder and with resignation)Senators, Praetor Coruncanius charges that the Consul has taken us into an unauthorised war with Iberia. If this were true, I cannot think of a situation in which an emergency session of Senate would be more appropriate.

There is only one case I can think of where a Consul alone could constitutionally start a war. This is the case that Quintus amended the constitution to cover: when an enemy army enters our lands, the Consul is empowered to declare war on their faction.

I am therefore opening an Emergency session of Senate. I will consider Numerius Aureolus's three motions as being tabled. Are there any seconders? Or any other motions?

However, I would also ask the Consul to clarify one factual question:

Did the war begin with our attacking an Iberian army that had entered into our lands or with our attack on Emporiai?

If the answer to this question is that the war began with our attacking an Iberian army that had entered our lands, I will immediately close this emergency session of Senate, declaring it invalid. I will also beg the forgiveness of the Consul (sotto voce:) and order a very hot bath and a very sharp razor...

Mount Suribachi
11-25-2006, 15:17
I wish to second Emergency Motion 1

Furthermore, I call on the Speaker to instantly dismiss motions 2 and 3!

Numerius, I know as a teenager you were out on the battlefield killing our enemies when you should have been in the scriptorium studying law, but I know you're not stupid. Even you know that as Consul, Servius cannot be tried as long as he holds his imperium!. To call for his impeachment whilst he is still in office is both unconstitutional and illegal!

I call upon the speaker once again to dismiss these motions! Indeed, I urge him to act upon his promise to close this emergency session immediately.

Those of you who suddenly oppose the idea of war with Iberia, a war which was bound to happen sooner or later, a war which comes to the aid of an ally we have long neglected, those who forget how such a war was openly being prepared and planned for not so long ago, those of you may bring your motions to prosecute Servius when he has stepped down from office and no longer holds his imperium.

Dutch_guy
11-25-2006, 15:48
I'm in full agreement with my esteemed colleague Senator Oppius Aemilius

However, I have the following to say on the matter at hand...



However, we must also consider the accusations that Praetor Coruncanius has made. He says that the Consul has started a war without authority. Senators, it is true, we are at war with Iberia. And it is also true that, under the constitution, only the Senate can authorise a declaration of war. Senators, I know I have been away a while, but I do not recall the Consul even informing the Senate about his intention to start a war with Iberia, let alone seeking out authorisation for it.

So what are we to conclude from all this? Senators, I am afraid there can be only one conclusion. The Consul has rode roughshod over our most fundamental laws and started an unconstitutional war of aggression. He has brought upon us that great conflaggration that successive Consuls have skillfully managed to avoid. We have been close neighbours of Iberia since the time of Lucius Aemilius, but incredibly Iberia alone of our neighbours has not turned on us.

I deem our consul did what he had to do when he started the war with Iberia, senators, when was the last time you all set foot out of our dear City ? Iberia is the biggest threat we have at the moment, the Egyptians and Seleucids are nothing compared to the might of the Iberians. Who hold their entire Peninsular and now put our allies, the Germans, on the Brink of total destruction. If not to save ourselves, think of our Allies !

Don't, dear senators, be so foolish as to think Iberia would not turn on us in the future. As rightfully said, it is a miracle they stayed neutral for so long...


Emergency motion 2: This House impeachs Servius Aemilius for unconstitutionally taking the Republic to war with Iberia. It immediately removes him from office.

Senator Oppius Aemilius, you say we should let the matter lie because the Consul's term is nearly at an end. But does that not make the offence even more egregious? The Consul has deliberately provoked a massive war that he cannot hope to bring to closure. He has thus decided the course of the next Consul, knowing full well that it is quite likely a future Consul may wish to turn east rather than assault Iberia. Indeed, it is clear from the First Consul's report that this war was started precisely to act as a spoiling maneouvre for the next Consulship!

Finally, I wish to address Praetor Coruncanius's charge that the Consul is insane. As I have just pointed out to Oppius, there is reason in the Consul's madness. But the man does seem to act without any moral or social restraint, in a way only the most dangerous of people do. There is one further criminal act of the First Consul's that I believe we should address in the emergency session of Senate:

You'd actually wish to remove our consul from his office, when it is ending in the very near future ? Well, if our consul's war with Iberia is un-lawful, then such a proposition or emergency motion is also entirely un constitutional.

And have not our other consuls also set the tone for their future collegues ? This is not something new.


Emergency motion 3: This House impeachs Servius Aemilius for the murder of UPS Maximus on the Senate floor. It immediately removes him from office and orders him kept under permanent house arrest at Palma.

Senators, I am not a doctor - I do not know if Serivus is insane - and I am not a lawyer - I do not know if a Roman can legally kill his servant. But gratuitous slaying of a public servant by the Head of State on the floor of the House, in front of the entire Senate, is an act that shames us all. In that act, he transformed Rome from a place of law and honour into something no better than a cowed barbarian court lowering itself before a murderous tyrant king. We have debased ourselves before this man for long enough - it is time we got rid of him.

I do not agree with this murder - which I somehow managed to miss altogether - but I judge the consul will explain himself with regard to this. I daresay he had a valid reason to do so, however, the location was...poorly chosen. As was your choice of words, Numerius. Comparing Rome to a barbarian court is a valid reason to impeach you, as is your blatant call for chaos and panic on this senate floor, when we have such a difficult time ahead of us - even with our current consul in charge...

That said, what our consul does with his slaves is entirely his business...

- Flavius.

:balloon2:

Mount Suribachi
11-25-2006, 18:25
I seem to recall that the killing of UPS Maximus met with the approval of this house. I myself was ambivilent about it, but there is no doubt that our Consuls' arrogant slave was universally loathed.

econ21
11-25-2006, 19:21
[SENATE SPEAKER]: Senators, we are entering unknown territory and in such circumstances, I must improvise as best I can.

I rule that impeachment is to be understood here as the involuntary removal of the Consul from office. It is thus an appropriate matter to be considered in an emergency session of Senate and could levelled against a Consul while still in office. Indeed, it would be a rather redundant matter in the context of an ex-Consul at the end of his term.

Impeachment will of course require a supermajority of two-thirds to be passed.

I should have stated at the outset that this emergency session of Senate will close at 12 noon on Tuesday UK time and there will then be a 24 hour period of voting for any emergency motions that have two seconders. However, I believe the scribes have already communicated this to all of you in private.

Mount Suribachi
11-25-2006, 20:38
[b][SENATE SPEAKER]I rule that impeachment is to be understood here as the involuntary removal of the Consul from office. It is thus an appropriate matter to be considered in an emergency session of Senate and could levelled against a Consul while still in office. Indeed, it would be a rather redundant matter in the context of an ex-Consul at the end of his term.

Unless of course he does not return to Rome and stands for Consul in absentia, then he will still be sacrosanct due to his imperium.

StoneCold
11-25-2006, 20:44
I myself deem the killing of UPS just that, a killing. UPS is the slave of the consul, and as such is his property. I do not think it a crime to destroy, say one's goblet, by the owner.

flyd
11-25-2006, 21:39
Senators,

It matters not if you support a war with Iberia. It matters not if the result of the Consul's actions is what you wanted. Iberia is not the issue here. The issue here is that the Consul has purposefully attempted to undermine the authority of the Senate, of our constitution, and has, as a result, attempted to damage the Republic itself. These are the specific things he did:

The Consul has violated the following constitutional provision:


*11) Declarations of war, alliances, ceasefires, grants of settlements to other factions and relocation of the capital require Senate authorisation (i.e. a motion).

At this stage, there is still some room for excuses and attempts at justification, until we look a the Consular report. I'll ignore all the insults to the Senate in the first part of the report, and get to the main point


If the senate contests this, then let them take their contest to the gods. Because the gods have looked upon me at the dusk of battle and smiled, and said aloud. "This is our son." And they have bid me slake Rome's thirst on the world, that Rome herself may be the daughter of the gods, and I, the man who gave her the beginnings of her golden age.

Not only is this extremely blasphemous, it is quite obvious that this man does not respect the institutions of our Republic. He thinks he alone is the future of Rome. Well, this is why I called for this emergency session: it is very dangerous to allow such a man to hold any power for any amount of time. Who's to say what he may do next to undermine our Republic? From what little of his incoherent rant I can interpret, it would appear to me that he wishes to have himself installed as king! Perhaps in his delusion, he already thinks he is one. A Consul's purpose is to execute the will of the Senate, not to make policy of his own. Why is it that we even have a constitution if it will not be followed? Why is it we have a Senate if it will not make policy? What sort of precedent do we set if we allow any fool to do as he pleases!?

The Senate is the highest authority in the Republic, and so it shall remain. I second Emergency Motion 2. Although it doesn't quite encapsulate all the reasons, the action it orders is appropriate. As far as I see it, any Senator who votes against this motion may as well be voting to install Aemilus as king. I also second Emergency Motion 3, they still haven't managed to completely clean up that stain over there. Servius Aemilius has sullied this house, both figuratively and actually.

Finally, since it appears that... certain generals don't mind following unlawful orders from Aemilius, to ensure the continued safe operation of the Republic, I propose the following motion:

Emergency Motion 4: No Roman army is allowed to enter Italy, except: small city garrisons which are to remain in cities; and newly trained troops which must be deployed away from Italy as soon as they are ready to do so. The northern boundary of Italy is defined as the limit of the regions of the cities of Arretium and Ariminum. This is a constitutional amendment.

Mount Suribachi
11-26-2006, 10:47
Tiberius, Servius has no intention of installing himself as king, that is nothing but fear-mongering on your part. He has already declared his intention to retire to his estates on Palma once his consulship is over and Iberia has been broken.

And you witter on about the constitution, yet forget (accidentally on purpose no doubt) that under the constitution, Servius cannot be prosecuted for anything as long as he holds office. I call once again for this session to be closed immediately on these grounds.

For what its worth, I support your motion 4. However, its competely worthless. If you, or any other powerful Roman general for that matter, now or in the future, decides to enforce his will through the use of his legions, I doubt that a motion such as yours would deter him.

Finally, so Servius thinks himself chosen specially by the Gods. Who are you or anyone else to say that he is not? Look at his achievements Conscript Fathers. Just because someone has the blessing and favour of Jupiter Optimus Maximus, it does not mean they have to be modest about it, eh?

TinCow
11-26-2006, 20:35
I whole heartedly second emergency motions 2 and 3. We are facing a dictatorship here. The day when the Consul may decide the most serious political matters of the Republic without the approval of the Senate is the day we return a King to the throne. This body nearly impeached Augustus Verginius for turning over lands to the Germans, even though there was no law preventing this action. Yet here today many are coming to the defense of a man who has blatantly violated the single most important restriction on the Consulate.

There can be no question about this matter. The proper course of action for a Consul who has violated the laws of the Republic is impeachment, at a minimum. Servius Aemilius has declared war on Iberia without Senate approval, in blatant violation of the laws of the Republic. There is no way around these facts. Servius Aemilius MUST be impeached for the sake of the Republic. It is the duty of all Romans to uphold Republican law. Any who refuse to impeach Servius Aemilius are themselves accomplices to treason and should be dealt with accordingly.

Braden
11-26-2006, 21:24
Senators,

What is this madness? Our Consul is one whom I have trusted with my life and yet he would be impeached by the Senate for doing what many of us have already been thinking of?

For killing a lier and a cheat?

Why would you people have the Consul do otherwise?

Senators, I can but only accept critisim against the Consul for starting an open war against Iberia BUT....I have certainly long predicted a war was inevitable and we have been dodging this for so many years it has become an embarresment!

An embarresment to the Republic! The barbarians mock us and they prepare for a war against us because we are seen as weak by them.

Yes, we know we are strong, we know of our successes in the East and in Afrika but they do not, nor do they care for such "tails".

All they understand is strength of arms and only that strength that THEY can see and feel. That is their nature.

The Consul has merely been brave enough to pre-empt the Barbarians own strike against us.

I do, however, slightly worry for the Consul's health. His last consular report had some elements were worrying to me and it would please me if it were possible for me to relinquish command here and go to him, as a friend, and talk with him.

That said, I have and always will be his friend and ally. I would follow this man against all enemies we would face.

Hence, I do not support these motions in any form.

Manius the Victor

__________________________________

econ21
11-27-2006, 00:33
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senators, I am glad there are a few men of integrity still left in this place. The venerable Praetor Coruncanius leads the way, as he as always done. And young Cnaeus Caprarius comes forward to carry on the torch of duty, honour and the old Roman ways.

But to the rest of you Senators who have spoken, I say this: Your fawning before the Consul merely augurs the death of the Republic. We are a nation of law - it is what binds us together, protects against the vagaries of personal ambition and whim. This bond is broken when we, the guardians of Rome, her protectors, sanction an unconstitutional act merely because it is for an end that we support.

You want war with Iberia? Fine, you have it. But that is irrelevant to this debate. If you wanted war with Iberia, you should have argued for it here. Even the servile Marcellus was too faint hearted to advocate such an act when I called his bluff recently in this house. None of you dared argue for that course, knowing such a war to be unnecessary, reckless and rapacious. But if you want war with Iberia, fine. You know what should have been done. A motion should have been brought forward. The required majority obtained. The Consul dully authorised. If you wanted it, you should have done it but done it right. Not this way. Not by the fiat of the Consul. Not by breaking one of the founding rules of the constitution that we have abided by throughout recorded history.

Senators, we should go home. Go, now, back to your villas. Shut down this place. When the Consul can tread over the constitution just because he does not agree with the consensus in the Senate, what purpose is there in us staying here? We are not needed. Let the Consul merely imprint out likenesses on a seal and use it to stamp any edict he chooses. Nay, why bother with edicts or motions? Let the Consul merely wake up every morning and decide what service he would like our great country, his cheap harlot, to perform for him that day!

GeneralHankerchief
11-27-2006, 02:02
Senators, this issue puts me in an impossible position.

On one hand, we are now at war with Iberia. I obviously advocated this, and am pleased that it has now begun. However, I am not pleased with the method that Servius, my nephew, has begun this.

Unless this invasion was begun with an Iberian attack on Roman soil, I do believe that this move was in fact, illegal. If this was any other person aside from an Aemilius, I would obviously call for impeachment.

So, Senators, I am now turn. Where do my loyalties lie? With my kin or the law? This is a question nobody should have to answer, yet here I am, posed that very question.

Until I get more time to think on this, I shall abstain from all procedures relating to this incident.

Death the destroyer of worlds
11-27-2006, 02:14
Senators,

While I feel the dissension amongst you, you must realize that the decisions we are making in this emergency session concern the most vital issues on which Rome is founded. Ever since the glorious day of Brutus, the senate has guarded the Republic. Countless citizens trust us to safeguard them from evil despots. Alone amongst all the nations in the world (sotto voice: except Carthage) our citizens are free, and not serfs of some capricious ruler.

Now you are called upon to show your worthiness of this most important of responsibilities ! Your actions in this session will determine the fate of our Republic. Will we submit and start on the road to becoming yet anther despot empire ? Or shall we stand straight as true Romans and punish this abuser of power !

I will not second Emergency motion 1 ! With his unconstitutional actions Servius Aemilius has lost the right to all honours his previous successes might have warranted.

I will definitely second Emergency motion 2 and I call upon all those present to set aside their personal feelings towards this consul and to live up to their responsibility as guardian of the state !

I will not second Emergency motion 3. The killing of a man's own slave does not require a sanction under our laws. I, for one, will not miss UPS Maximus in the least.

I will also second Emergency Motion 4, although I regret that this has become necessary.

Lastly, and it pains me to enter these motions, as it concerns my own grandson, I will submit

Emergency motion 5: Because of excessive abuse of power, Servius Aemilius is immediately removed from office, banished from Italy and loses all rights as a Roman citizen.

Emergency motion 6: Because of excessive abuse of power, Servius Aemilius is to be considered an enemy of the state. It is the duty of any freedom-loving Roman to kill him on sight.

His responsibility for all the Romans that will die in this unprovoked war with Iberia calls for no less.

Tamur
11-27-2006, 06:36
(Appius Barbatus)

I will, with a heavy heart, second emergency Motion 5. As the esteemed Numerius Aureolus has said, the constitution and the laws which govern us cannot be trampled in such a way. If we allow this to move forward unchecked, then Rome loses its strength and becomes just another kingdom on its way to dissolution.

However, I cannot agree with Motion 6. Though his actions endanger the Republic's western border, I do not believe Consul Aemilius is willfully attempting to undermine or destroy Rome itself. Rather, he is attempting to take it for his own. Though there is no Lucretia involved, the state itself, our laws and honour, have been continuously raped by this man, and he must suffer the same punishment as that Tarquin of old.

May I remind you, gentlemen, of the words of the Greek named Aristotle. To be without one's city is worse than death.

Mount Suribachi
11-27-2006, 10:54
Enough of this ridiculous talk of Servius setting himself up as King!

He has already stated his wish to retire to Palma. If he does so Conscript Fathers, might I be so adventurous as to suggest that he would not be positioning himself to sit on a Roman throne?

All this talk of Servius usurping the Senate is ridiculous. War with Iberia has been brewing for decades. Matter of fact it has only NOT happened because of a mixture of prudent restraint and flat out shameful cowardice on our behalf. During the consulship of Servius, this house discussed at great length a pre-emptive war with Iberia, and agreed to such a war. Why else were out Legions positioned so? I myself am at the west end of Afrika precisely because under the plan laid before the Senate my Legion is to strike into southern Iberia. The only thing missing from this attack was a motion authorising it, little more than a rubber stamp.

Furthermore, we are at last coming to the aid of our hard-pressed (and only!) allies, Germania. Do we need a motion to aid an ally? Is Roman honour, is the word of a Roman reliant upon the selfish and unpredictable votes of a bunch of rich old men?

Finally Senators, why do you antagonise Servius? Lucius, you are the greatest Aemilli of us all, why must you propose such provocative motions? Surely you know that Servius is not a man for backing down? With such motions you do threaten not just Servius, but yourself, the house of Aemilii and all of Rome.

econ21
11-27-2006, 11:41
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: I will second motion 5. I cannot in conscience sanction motion 6, for, having condemned Servius for wantonly spilling blood, I cannot then turn around and do likewise.

TinCow
11-27-2006, 13:06
Senator Oppius Aemilius,

If war with Iberia was so heavily supported within the Senate and so urgently necessary, why did the Consul not call an emergency session of his own to get a legal declaration of war? This is not an inflexible body and if the proper procedures had been used, this issue would not have arisen. The fact that a legal declaration of war could have been obtained is, if anything, even more condemning of the Consul's actions. He could have gained all he sought, yet chose to brush aside the most basic laws of the Senate! He has shown nothing but contempt for the Republic and deserves the same in return.

SwordsMaster
11-27-2006, 15:46
Motion 5 will have my support. Motion 6 will just prove our dear leader right about himself, and we wouldn't want that, would we?

Lucjan
11-27-2006, 17:53
Senator Oppius Aemilius,

If war with Iberia was so heavily supported within the Senate and so urgently necessary, why did the Consul not call an emergency session of his own to get a legal declaration of war? This is not an inflexible body and if the proper procedures had been used, this issue would not have arisen. The fact that a legal declaration of war could have been obtained is, if anything, even more condemning of the Consul's actions. He could have gained all he sought, yet chose to brush aside the most basic laws of the Senate! He has shown nothing but contempt for the Republic and deserves the same in return.

*A clerk within the senate speaks up.* Actually, Senator, I believe the consul has probably taken the actions he has because this is an extremely inflexible body. May I make a few quotes.


I also stand with Senator Aureolus. Our many wars have begun for numerous different reasons, but our objectives have always been the same: benefits for the Roman people, be they in security, wealth, slaves, or other things. There is little to be gained from Iberia. The barbarians are of little threat to our trained Legions, especially with the strong border that Consul Servius Aemilius has so masterfully constructed.

Yet in the East, Seleucia and Ptolemy control vast and prosperous territories. With Italy, Greece, Macedon and Carthage already under our control, the Eastern territories are the only rich lands in the known world not subject to Republican rule. Wars must be fought for the benefit of the Roman people. There is no benefit to be had in Iberian territories. Let us continue to push eastwards.

You made this statement directly following our consul's support of the Iberian war.

The consul had made this statement before the majority of the dissenting opinions from Marcellus's view had been heard.


I do not feel that such extensive eastward expansion would yet benefit the strengths of the Republic. If Marcellus promises to maintain the borders "as is" in our Asian lands, when my consulship ends, I will stand behind him should he make a bid for the consulship. Provided there is nothing of any significance that I would have to dispute him on.

Later on, after full support of the senate had been propped up behind Numerious. Judging from past experience, how could the consul have possibly obtained a motion to go to war with Iberia, which he clearly supported with Marcellus, when the entirety of the senate stood against this? You know the senators do not change their minds unless their own assets seems to be endangered. Don't be so foolhardy as to suggest that they do. The consul made a compliant remark with the support for the east after that and then the following statements were made.


Do I indeed hear no dissenting voice besides our esteemed but misguided colleage, Marcellus Aemilius? It is indeed a strange day in the Senate, what odd events await us?


Indeed, even I seem to be left uncontested in my thoughts. Truly this must mean the end of the world. *Servius laughs cynically.*

Unless I'm mistaken it seems that this time around the consul has managed to not get himself verbally assaulted, kicked around, threatened with impeachment and otherwise harassed by this senate by just nodding to make us happy then ignoring us.

We have nothing to complain about with this new development. It is this senate who has caused this. This senate, in its treatment of that man, created its own monster.

If you are fearful of Servius's now blatant ignorance of the senate's wishes, perhaps his treatment in the past should have been more like an equal and less like the senate's play thing.

I do not see a senator here who hadn't at one point in time stood steadfastly against one of the consul's ideas, then quickly changed his tune when the idea bore more fruit than the one they had supported.

Pass whatever motions you wish, but I have watched this senate and I have watched the consul throughout these years. It is the actions of this senate that will determine whether this republic stays a republic. Letting the consul have his way will see him return to Palma in a few short years, when Iberia has been laid to rest, and he will not return to these courts again. But if you take this chance to stick yet one more dagger in his back, then watch yourselves. He has outmaneouvered and outsmarted the Seleucids, the Carthaginians, and now, even this senate in order to see his intentions through. Mark my words senators, if Servius is threatened, there will be war. There will be war, and the republic....will fall.

On your own heads be it.

econ21
11-27-2006, 18:45
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Once again, Servius sends a servant to debate with the House. What arrogance!

Clerk - sit down, boy, and watch yourself with your master. Your predecessor did not exactly enjoy a long happy retirement.

So, Servius breaks the constitution because he judges he could not get what he wants through the Senate. Well, that makes everything just fine, doesn't it? Of course, laws should be broken if they stop you getting what you want!

As for Servius being the plaything of the Senate, I have studied the records and I say this: we have never had a Consul more aloof from the House, less solicitous of its views, less eager to communicate his true intentions and less collegiate. The idea that the man was ever once beholden to us is a joke.

And at the last we have this - "if Servius is threatened, there will be war". Not content with trashing the constitution, he now threatens us with treason and civil war. Any Senator not convinced by this display of the necessity of impeachment should leave now and go help Servius prepare his march on Rome.

TinCow
11-27-2006, 21:14
Mark my words senators, if Servius is threatened, there will be war. There will be war, and the republic....will fall.

TREASON!

*Cnaeus Caprarius stands, unsheathing a dagger.*

This plebian proclaims the death of the Republic in this sacred forum!

*Cnaeus rushes forward and stabs the clerk in the stomach. Once, twice, three times. The man crumples to the ground in a heap. Cnaeus spits on the corpse.*

Senators, look at the filth that Servius brings before us. He sends a clerk to threaten not only the Senate, but the entire Republic! I will not stand for this, Rome will not stand for this! I demand that Servius be immediately brought before this body for impeachment, to be followed by an immediate trial on the charge of treason. All who threaten the Republic must be dealt with swiftly and without mercy!

Mount Suribachi
11-27-2006, 21:16
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]:
And at the last we have this - "if Servius is threatened, there will be war". Not content with trashing the constitution, he now threatens us with treason and civil war. Any Senator not convinced by this display of the necessity of impeachment should leave now and go help Servius prepare his march on Rome.

I do not think this is a threat Numerius. Rather, it would be the natural reaction of a cornered animal that knows it must fight or die. Such is the choice that too many of you are presenting Servius. As for marching on Rome, that would be little more than a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Wait till the Consulship of Servius Aemilius is over before such rash actions, I beg the house.

Tamur
11-27-2006, 21:31
*catches his breath after Cnaeus Caprarius' actions*

Senators, I must ask for calm in this situation. Do we now begin to slay everyone who speaks a word we disagree with? If so, then all civility is gone from this house, and woe comes to us all!

Blood on the Senate floor means ten thousand times as much elsewhere.

*shakes his head slowly*

Lucjan
11-27-2006, 22:03
(OOC - Just a note, that was not a clerk of Servius, just a random clerk, who spoke as he were a respected member of the senate, "we", "that man", never referring to Servius as anything but another member of the senate.

Also, ironic reaction on Cnaeus's part. Especially right after such an action was used as the excuse to go after Servius himself.)

econ21
11-27-2006, 23:56
[SENATE SPEAKER]: Order! Order! I will have order in this House!

The clerks, or what is left of them, have drawn up a list of the emergency motions and their seconders.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1274434&postcount=1

The deadline for other motions or for seconders is noon tomorrow (UK time). There will then be a 24 hour period of voting.

TinCow
11-28-2006, 00:49
I have been informed that the recently deceased clerk was not one of Servius' minions. While I remain convinced that he was working for the Consul in some form, without formal evidence to that extent, my comments during the event about Servius himself were unjustified. For them, I apologize.

I have no regret for my actions though. That man publicly threatened the destruction of the Republic if we did not bow to Servius' will. That was blatant treason conducted openly before the entire body of the Senate. There was disputing the meaning of the words he used, we all heard it. In one statement he conducted his own trial and pronounced his own sentence. I feel no shame for executing a plebian traitor to the Republic who convicted himself with his own tongue. If I am at fault for my actions, then I accept the consequences of them and will bear any mark made against my person or name with pride. Indeed, I would do the same again if another pleb committed treason against Rome.

Let no man say that Cnaeus Caprarius stood by and talked while treason was being committed before his very eyes.

flyd
11-28-2006, 01:35
I do support the action of Cnaeus Caprarius. May every traitor meet a similar fate. In light of that, I second Emergency Motion 6. I would, however, appreciate it if Senator Caprarius, or anyone else, didn't bring concealed daggers into this house. Prominently displayed weapons I have no issue with.

Could somebody remove this body? And please, please make an effort to clean the floor well this time.

Braden
11-28-2006, 12:00
(OOC: I can’t see the Emergency session post apart from following the link on the above post. When will the votes open?)

econ21
11-28-2006, 12:06
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: With voting about to begin in one hour, I am seconding motions 4 and 6 - not necessarily because I support them, but because I believe they are worth putting to a vote.

I am also withdrawing motion 1, in the light of the treasonous threats recently communicated to this House.

Braden
11-28-2006, 12:18
Well Senators,

A sorry time indeed this is, and a sorry body of men stand before me. Are you SO ready to condemn one of our Greatest Consuls for this one act?

Certainly it was unconstitutional, but your fears that Servius wishes greater power for himself….where does that thought come from??

I consider myself a close, personal friend of the Consul and yet I have never seen such lofty ambitions in him. He has always fought for what he thought was in the best interests of the Republic and certainly NOT himself. Had he considered his own well being or his own glory would he had entered Afrika with merely a Praetorian Legion?

It does not sound like the act of someone who puts himself before the Republics wishes does it?

War has changed my friend Servius, perhaps for the worse, but he is still a good man, a good friend, a consummate commander and a great leader. From my point of view it merely appears that the Senate wishes nothing more than to rid themselves of Servius, regardless of legality. Do you truly hate one who has given Rome such glory with such vigour?

If the Senate proceeds with these, clearly self-centred, actions I will be left with no option than to leave the Senate and return to my own Legion in the East.

I also ask the other Senators with legions in Asia-Minor to follow me back there. We were given our opportunity in Asia-Minor by Servius and I ask for their loyalty and support at this time to vote against these Motions that are put before us now.

I tell them that the Consuls reign is nearly at an end and appeal to them to allow him to finish his tenure. THEN, we should judge him when his works are completed, not now, when these conspirators wish it, but when the Consul is no longer a Consul.

I also uphold the Consuls right for self-preservation and again ask the Senators of the Eastern Legions to support me in this matter and utterly REJECT emergency Motion #6.

Should such a motion be passed I would have to commit myself and any who would follow me willingly to protect the life of the one I call a friend, in anyway possible and against ANY who would do his life harm.

Currently, I see no place for me in “this” Senate…..and I await the results of the voting in my villa here in Roma. Then I will either return to a Senate that has retained its SANITY….or I will be found with my Legion in Asia-Minor.

…I bid you all good DAY!

*Manius, turns abruptly and storms out of the Senate building followed by his Legion Centurion and Banner*

Braden
11-28-2006, 12:59
*A very meek looking, stooped man rises from his seat behind where Manius and his entourage were sitting. Dressed very plainly, he bows to the Senate*

Erm….well, it would appear that I am left behind. I envisage that I am to ensure my masters own votes are not mis-represented nor his expressions. Erm….let me….erm….re-assure the Senate I suppose, that my master wishes only to defend the life and honour of his friend the Consul and that his actions will be entirely dependant upon what the Senate decides when its votes are cast.

I guess it’s a matter of “attack the Consul verbally…fine, attack him physically…that’s another matter”.

*the man smiles and, with great difficulty, sits down again. Perhaps you recognise him slightly…..the eyes seem to remind you of someone, someone who was very prominent a good number of years ago but you haven’t seen for a good long while, a judge perhaps?*

Mount Suribachi
11-28-2006, 14:04
Senators, I am shock. I am at a loss for words.

A clerk is murdered in this august house and no-one bats an eyelid or complains - except about the mess. Apparantly its OK to murder someone based purely upon the accusation of treason! Perhaps, Cnaeus Caprarius, I might accuse you of treason and stab you to death in full view of the house? Evidence, a trial, clearly these are things that opponents of Servius Aemilius do not need, mere accusation is enough!

Senators, look at yourselves, look at what you have become. It seems in your headlong pursuit of obedience to the constitution and the rule of law, you have decided that you yourselves are above the constitution and the rule of law. This poor clerk is evidence of that. But better that a thousand innocent men should die than one guilty man go free, eh Cnaeus?

And what about the rest of you Senators? You are all only a hearbeat away from death at the hands of the likes of Cnaeus, murdered merely for the suspicion of treason. Or in the case of this unfortunate, unknown clerk, murdered on account of a misunderstanding!!

And you Numerius, you should know better. No man in this house has suffered more unfair brickbats and critcism than you. Blamed for the wars with Seleucia and Ptolomy. Blamed for the deaths of not one, but two consuls! Reviled by Senators who were jealous and suspicious of your success, bravery and fame at such an early age. Numerius my friend, it could have so easily been you standing before a vengeful Senate - and may yet still be one day. Ruminate on this, I beg you.

Lastly Senators, may I remind you, again, for the umpteenth time. You sit and you repeatedly claim to be upholding the constitution, yet...

*Oppius draws a deep breath before screaming at the top of his lungs*

UNDER THE CONSTITUTION SERVIUS CANNOT BE IMPEACHED AS LONG AS HE HOLDS HIS IMPERIUM!!!!!!!

TinCow
11-28-2006, 16:27
It seems that our colleague Oppius Aemilius is somewhat confused. The constitution specifically allows for the impeachment of a sitting Consul. The full text of the provisions regarding impeachment are


4) Senate members can propose motions that are binding setting out objectives for a Consuls reign. The Consul may ignore this motions at their peril (risk of censure/impeachment). All motions require a proposer and two seconders.

6) The Senate may choose to reward Consuls by awarding them “Triumphs” or they may choose to censure them by Impeachment. Either vote requires a 2/3 majority of the Senate (influence weighted). Motions of thanks and censure require simple majorities.

Servius Aemilius is fully subject to the motion of Impeachment by this body. Perhaps you are confused with the fictitious Roman Republic which I have heard discussed of in the brothels. It seems that in that imaginary world, Consuls were immune to prosecution for the duration of their terms. Perhaps Oppius needs to be reminded that we live in the REAL world, and not some make believe fantasy in which Consuls are immune from impeachment during the entirety of their terms.

Furthermore, it seems that Oppius has some cotton I his ears. He claims that the plebian clerk might actually have been innocent of treason. Senator, did you not hear it from his own mouth when he said, and I quote, \"if Servius is threatened, there will be war. There will be war, and the republic....will fall.\" Perhaps I am too simple in my thinking to understand how this could possibly be considered an innocent statement, free from threats against the very foundations of Roman civilization? Oppius, please enlighten us as to how this man could possibly have been innocent of treason. This was no misunderstanding. He spoke blatant treason before the Senate and I responded as all Senators should in such a situation.

As for disposing of Senators in a similar matter, I assure you that I would never slay an unarmed patrician in such a manner, much less a Senator. You have my word that if you speak open treason in this forum, Oppius, I will give you a blade and a fair opportunity to defend yourself before I gut you.

You shame yourself by expecting Numerius Aureolus to do anything other than uphold the laws of the Republic. Do you forget that he is the one man here today who has actively defied the will of a sitting Consul in order to uphold the laws of the Republic? When commanded to exterminate the city of Debeltos by Consul Publius Pansa, an act that would have violated the laws of the Republic, he defied that order at the risk to his own career and reputation. In thanks for this act of utmost loyalty to the Republic, he was threatened, accused, and vilified in this forum by men who were jealous of his abilities in politics and war. Yet throughout all of it, he remained steadfast in support of the laws of the Republic, no matter the cost to himself. To expect Numerius Aureolus to do anything other than to uphold the law to the letter is to expect the Sun to run backwards across the sky. The law is clear in this matter. Servius has declared war without consulting the Senate. He is in violation of Republican law and must be held responsible for his actions. Numerius is an example for a true Roman of the old style, he obeys the laws, unlike your patron.

Braden
11-28-2006, 17:35
*The old man stands slowly*

- clears his throat –

So, Senators, it appears that I stand as a Clerk, before a room full of men who are more than willing to plunge a dagger into my heart at the barest hint of dissent towards them!

Senator Cnaeus Caprarius stood before us just now and LEGALISED murder!!

….Oh, I’m sorry, it was a lowly clerk….obviously not as High borne or as important as you ‘all-so-mighty’ Senators…..thus are the plebians, who, shall I remind the Senate are the reason you are in office and are the people you are supposed to be representing….are their lives worth so little to the Senate that they will countenance open murder without any form of trial…

..and all because of one mans view or opinion?

I am representing my own master and am not as stupid as that poor soul, I will speak of only what I know of. No “treason” will pass my lips. Though, perhaps a cautious eye to those of you sitting behind me would be in order.

No, what I say now is fact and thus cannot be treason.

The Senate plan to put forth mandates that cause our current Consul to be hunted down like a common thief, and for what? For actions that have caused the loss of less than 100 Romans.

I recall a trial, a good few years hence now, when a Commanders actions led to the destruction of his entire Legion AND the loss of their Eagle standard. The resulting war cost many lives, Roman and Barbarian, and yet……and yet, Senators, THAT man was put on formal trial and had his fair cast of the die.

Even he was not treated such……I’m afraid that age gets to me and I do not recall his name or if he even lives still…..

*the clerk trails off slightly before regaining composure*

Nay Senators! If we, the plebians, are to believe what Senator Cnaeus has just said then isn’t the Republic already dead? Has the Senate herself become so powerful and so embroiled in her own gain that they have forgotten whom they are here to represent and protect?

I will arrange for this mans collection and his internment as is custom. His family will receive monies so they will not want and employ in my masters household so they will not be homeless due to this murderous act.

*the old man moves left slightly and tap his cane upon the marble floor. Two legionaries move to the senate floor and lift the corpse away….both bare the insignia of the 3rd – Manius’s legion.*

You, see Senators, I am not without defences. Even though I stand before you “naked” I am protected from your excesses.

Now, I ask you again Senators. Condemn not our Consul for such a trifle, but I will support those who Condemn those such as Senator Cnaeus who call for allowing murder on such tenuous grounds.

Yes, perhaps the Consul has breached one of the Senate laws but hasn’t the Senate now deemed it acceptable to break laws on a whim?

Was not a Censure not a better idea against the Consul? Allow him to complete his leadership and then, perhaps, the next Consul would reprimand Servius by placing him as a governor in some backward place…but no….you Senators would have none of that and now, with the breaking of such a base law as killing an innocent, the Senate could well plunge us into an internal war.

I do not speak treason, for such things are something that I, my master and certainly the Consul do NOT wish for.

But the Consul is permitted as a citizen of Roma to defend himself against murderers, isn’t he?

Are not the plebians permitted to have a defender against murderers?

Also, consider this gentlemen of the Senate, perhaps it is the Senate that is out of order here, far more than the Consul is and ever will be?

*the old man hobbles back to the benches and sits down. Behind him stand the two grizzled veteran legionaries…apparently unarmed but still wearing armour*

econ21
11-28-2006, 18:36
[SENATE SPEAKER]: The gentlemen who has just spoken makes some interesting procedural points, although I am confess I thought the Senate was a place for Senators to speak - not any clerk who happens to stroll in off the street. Harrumph!

I am, however, particularly impressed with his point about law and due process before enacting a punishment. Our constitution allows for impeachment - the involuntary removal from office of the Consul - and it seems entirely appropriate for this to be decided by a super-majority of the Senate.

But for the Senate to add on to such impeachment votes specific punishments - including the loss of Consul's life itself - may be to go too far. Natural justice dictates that a formal trial, rather than a debate, is required before imposing such punishments. I will not retroactively rule on this and so I will let the current emergency motions pass or fail as they are.

However, in the future, impeachment will entail (a) the removal of the Consul from office; and (b) his arraignment on trial for whatever offence has led to the impeachment. Impeachment will still require a supermajority of two thirds.

Under these future arrangements, were the Consul to be impeached, he would be prosecuted in a special court of law - much as was done with Publius Laevinus. However, such a trial would be too important to be decided by a mere judge - casts a condescending look at the aged "clerk". Rather the verdict and the punishment would be decided by a simple majority of the Senate. If the Consul were to be found innocent, he would be reinstated in office.

I repeat these arrangements will be inaugurated for any future impeachment motions. The existing ones can stand as they are.

Oh, and one other matter - recent events have led me to install guards inside the Senate. Any person drawing weapons here will find themselves swiftly intercepted and any violence they might wish to enact will not be permitted to stand. No more blood will be spilled in this place. (sotto voce:) It is hard enough finding good clerks as it is, without having to start offering them danger money...

Tamur
11-28-2006, 19:27
(Appius Barbatus)

Though I seconded Motion 5, the actions of Cnaeus Caprarius have made me realise that passionate hatred can afflict both sides in this conflict. With both sides bloodied, it becomes far more difficult to feel strongly either way.

Therefore, I have relinquished my will to punish Consul Aemilius. I urge others who have been as shocked as I was by Senator Caprarius' slaying to reconcile themselves to the fact that a point has been passed in the Republic to which we now cannot return.

*sighs deeply, looking a bit older than his youth should allow*

Mount Suribachi
11-28-2006, 19:58
Cnaeus, you seem unable to tell the difference between a threat, and a statement about the future. Our deceased clerk was unable to make the former because he wasn't speaking for Servius, and neither do I. He recognised, as I do, that this house is backing Servius into a corner from which his only way out would be to fight his way out. This is not treason, merely an opinion, a warning about what may happen. If I say to you "be careful on the road to Capua, there are brigands attacking travellers", it does not mean I am directing the actions of those criminals! Our clerk did not claim to support Servius at any point, merely offered his own (rather impertinent) opinion on the situation.

Tell me Cnaeus, who made you judge, jury, prosecution and executioner?

But never mind, you shall learn all about the workings of our criminal courts soon enough... *glares menancingly at Cnaeus Caprarius*

GeneralHankerchief
11-28-2006, 22:08
Senators, please! War has begun, and it need not spill into these very halls!

I have voted "no" on every motion, although I do not fully agree with this decision. With a little help from the true Gods, I will not be haunted by this decision for very long.

Now, please, let some good news pass through this house. I would like to congratulate Quintus Libo on his crushing victory against the Iberian forces. We could not ask for a better first battle.

TinCow
11-29-2006, 00:39
A statement about the future? Are you truly this foolish, Oppius? Clerks do not simply wander into the Senate and speak their minds about the future of the Republic. That clerk was in the employ of someone in the Senate, otherwise he would not have been admitted! He was here on the behalf of an unknown Senator and we all know that clerks speak exactly as they have been instructed to speak. Those words were intentionally put into his mouth by a member of this Senate. That member of the Senate has not spoken up to proclaim his clerk's innocence nor has he even had the dignity to claim the man's body!

It appears that Servius' staff have disavowed any knowledge of the man, but I think we all know that the two are connected somehow. Given that the clerk was instructed in his language by a Senator, it would require a rather naive mind to claim that the fatal remarks were simply poorly chosen statements of opinion.

Bring me to trial if you wish; I will proudly boast of my actions before all of Rome. I will never apologize for slaying a traitor. Indeed, a trial would allow me to introduce proper evidence showing that the clerk was communicating a threat from Servius himself. HAH! Perhaps I should accuse myself to hasten the matter!

Mount Suribachi
11-29-2006, 07:46
You know Cnaeus, I've heard that wearing a hat made of tin can protect you from all these treacherous enemies of Rome......

Braden
11-29-2006, 09:49
*the old man rises, with difficulty, again*

Senators,

Firstly I must thank the speaker for his praise of my words and assure him that, whilst I am in “employ” as a Speaker for my young master Manius the Victor, I am no mere clerk.

I am an essential cog in the wheel of government if my master is to have his view given whilst he is not present.

My master left lest he say words unbecoming to his rank and station. A wise choice I should say, and one that others here should have perhaps taken.

Senator Cnaeus, a trial for you and your actions, may or may not be called in the next session of the Senate. I need not say anymore on this issue, as the Senate and Senators will decide on this when the time comes and I have no opinion on the matter as I have no instruction on the matter from my master.

I also thank the Senate speaker for installing guards, a wise act and I will dismiss my own at this point on his surety of our safety.

As for all other matters, we shall all see what the future of the Republic holds and if there is to be a true Republic after this voting session. I feel I have said all I can on this matter and anymore would be exceeding what my master would wish me to utter.

*the old man turns, dismisses his guards and sits back down. He rapidly appears to be almost dozing into sleep, before he suddenly wakes himself as his head droops*

econ21
11-29-2006, 15:41
[SENATE SPEAKER]: The results of the balloting are now in:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1324312&postcount=2

This emergency session of Senate is now closed. As we enter the final season under the Consul's rule, may we all pray for victory in war and peace in the Senate.

Braden
11-29-2006, 16:27
*the old man rises with Vigour*

Hear! Hear! And I congratulate the Senate on ignoring the excess of some of its members and only voting for a reasonably sensible precautionary measure in Motion #4.

It seems that the majority of the Senate still have the best interests of the Republic at heart and as the difficult time is past I feel I am no longer needed to speak for my master.

I will return to him with hail and hearty news! The Republic of Rome lives and will continue to do so!

*a low bow and the old man retires from the chamber*

TinCow
11-29-2006, 16:33
The Republic of Rome lives and will continue to do so!

On the contrary, the Republic founded by Lucius Junius Brutus is now dead. The Senate has stated that Consuls may violate the laws of Rome at a whim without explanation and without consequence.

As of today, the Senate is obsolete, the Republic exists in name only, and a tyrant once again rules Rome.

Death the destroyer of worlds
11-29-2006, 18:24
This is an evil day for Rome. The senate has proved to be so under the sway by our current consul that they do not mind that their supreme power has been ignored. I wonder if the consul will even surrender his office or try to continue on as a dictator. I worry even more how this senate will react. Frankly, senators, I now believe the Republic is doomed. Now that we have cracked the facade of our Republic strength, we can not mend it. All it can do now is crumble and shatter sooner or later. I had hoped not to see this day arrive while I was still amongst the living. A curse on you all !

Lucjan
11-29-2006, 22:55
*A centurion, stumbling and out of breathe, is led into the senatorial proceedings by the newly installed guard.*

News from the front senators! It appears that Quintus Naevius has achieved a stunning victory over the Iberians in central Gaul, and has got one of their generals on the run, Servius has changed his course and is heading north to meet his loyal generals in Gaul at a rapid pace, Narbo has already fallen to Servius's legion! Also, Quintus Libo has been given orders to bypass Trebata entirely, his new target looks like it is either the town of Aleria, or a group of mid sized Iberian war parties attempting to mass north of Comata.

But there is news from the east as well! Gnaeus Hordeonus and Kaeso Ammanius have managed to mislead Lucius Aemilius and Tiberius Coruncanius using directions from the consul. They have instigated the conquest of central Thrace! Sarmisegatusa has already fallen to Lucius's legion, and a vengeant Thracian horde has shown it's face at the mountain pass to the east! And Tiberius's legions near Tribus Iazyges has been goaded into taking the city by Kaeso Ammanius.

Also, Marcellus will take Lepcis Magna this season, Oppius appears ready to begin his march on Tingi, and Flavius Pacuvius has stalled east of Maloucha, it appears the Carthies have been massing an army behind the mountains, and the consul will not have him take the city without first receieving his opinion on whether he could do battle with this much larger force next season should it make a counter attack.

There was apparently much, much more planned for this season's actions that the consul had let be known.

(FlyDude has the save.)

econ21
11-30-2006, 00:44
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Another foolish and illegal maneouvre!

I quote from the legislation in the Senate library:

Motion 11.8: We will not extend our borders in Europe during this consul's term, except for Maronia.

Clearly, the Consul's act in occupying Sarmisegatusa is contrary to the law passed by the Senate. But since the Consul blithely breaks the constitution, we cannot expect him to obey mere motions.

Aside from being illegal, this maneouvre is nearly as foolish and unnecessary as the attack on Iberia. By occupying Thrace, we abandon the easily defensible Danube frontier and move blindly into the endless woods of Germania and beyond. Our occupation will bring our lands to border the Sarmatians. While campaigning, I had the pleasure of meeting mercenary fighters of this people - fine horse archers who fight in ways that our legions are ill prepared to counter. I tried to persuade the Consul to hire some, but their price was too rich for his blood. Now I fear it will not be long before we meet such men again, under less cordial circumstances.

But I come back to the principle of legality - gentlemen of the Senate, think on what you have done this day by failing to impeach the Consul. You have set the precedent that a Consul may do anything, ignore any motion, override even the constitution. And if you do manage to obtain the required majority to impeach him, what will be his answer? It will be the one that so enraged my patriotic friend Cnaeus - the Consul's answer will be civil war!

GeneralHankerchief
11-30-2006, 01:11
Servius, I really must protest at this latest turn of events. I would have thought that the impeachment votes would have reigned you in (you did receive a majority of votes but not a supermajority). Yet you blatantly continue to break Roman law!

I do not know how much we can get done by proposing another emergency session. But your ultimate punishment for this offense should be decided during the upcoming session. That is, unless you decide to elect yourself Consul-for-Life.

I now regret voting to keep you in office. My fellow Romans, I am sorry. I made the wrong decision.

Tamur
11-30-2006, 04:33
Senators, we are facing a crisis of proportions unknown to our illustrious forebearers. I voted not to impeach the Consul on the grounds that we would regain some sense of dignity and that the Consul would have received the message that his actions have led to chaos at home.

Yet he has taken the opposite message! What are we to do? If we call another emergency session and impeach him, we face a civil war. If we do not, then Rome has become his puppet!

Oh that I were Romulus and had not seen this day come!

Braden
11-30-2006, 10:53
*Manius dashes in to the Senate chamber now*

Senators!

Whilst I thought the future of the Republic now secured by word from my friend and speaker, word then found me of these actions against Thrace.

Whilst, I see the validity of making war upon the Iberians, being so brazen in their warmongering and openly defiant to our own superiority….we have had no such issues with the Thracians of late.

There have been border issues of course, but nothing of a scale even approaching that which Iberia caused.

*Manius now looks very downcast*

So, it is with heavy heart that I withdraw my support for our Consul and this campaign against Thrace…….

…..a step too far can break even the strongest friendships.

What I do ask the Senate though, is to wait on any motions until I have spoken with the Consul in private.

Following that, and if I cannot resolve it as a Friend to the Consul, then I will ask that the Senate follow correct procedure this time and Impeach the Consul only, remove him from office first, then any judgement can be made against him.

*Manius slumps down at his seat and holds his head in his hands*

Death the destroyer of worlds
11-30-2006, 10:55
Senators,
As I feared, the recent cowardly showing of this senate has convinced Serivus that he can ignore the senate at will. I will not follow into his treasonous footsteps and will thus not act on my own against the senate's wishes, but I warn the senate that I will not long ignore this pathetic attitude. If during the interrim session the senate does not recover its power, I might consider more drastic actions to safeguard the Republic. I might be old, but I am not too old to take the field to safeguard the Republic !

econ21
11-30-2006, 11:36
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senators, I may have misjudged you all. It seems there are still enough men here who are willing to stand for what the Republic believes in. Marcellus, Appius and Manius I salute you.

Senators, I have taken the last few days in Rome to look around our lands and it is a sorry sight. The Republic seems to have decayed under the rule of the First Consul. At home, it has suffered neglect. I do not have the exact figures to hand, but the picture is a dismal one. Around eight of any of our Italian settlements are crying out for new Palaces to be built. The number that can train true Roman soldiers is pitiful - around six or less. We are far away from building the Imperial Palace in Italy that my new friend, Senator Marius, informs me would be necessary for us to reform our citizen soldiers and create a professional army. The population of Capua is only around 10,000 or so. While we hold many settlements outside of Italy, it seems they are maintained only by scratch forces of local militia and mercenaries. The moral bankruptcy we have seen in Servius's conduct of foreign policy has been matched by squalor and corruption at home.

Senators, it seems we are now standing together. But do we just stand and talk or do we act? I say to you: now is our time, now is the moment we reassert the power of the Senate over the office of the Consul! We balked at it once, we will not get a third chance. The last impeachment vote was lost, but with the recent changes of heart, a new one would be passed. Consult the record:


Emergency motion 2: This House impeachs Servius Aemilius for unconstitutionally taking the Republic to war with Iberia. It immediately removes him from office. (Note: requires 2/3 majority)
Yes : 33
Braden (+3), Death the destroyer of worlds (+5), econ21 (+5), FLYdude (+5), Tiberius (+4), TinCow (+2), Wonderland (+2)
No : 22
Dutch_guy (+5), GeneralHankerchief (+3), Glaucus (+3), Lucjan (+3), Mount Suribachi (+1), Tamur (+1)

With Marcellus, Appius and Manius voting for impeachment, the vote on motion 2 would have been 39 to 16 and sufficient to pass.

With Manius supporting the Consul, the vote would have been 35 to 20 and so would fail.

I will therefore give Manius 24 hours to talk to the Consul. But the only way I can see for this situation to be satisfactory resolved is if the Consul resigns immediately and throws himself on the mercy of the Senate. If he does take that step, I will use all my influence to protect him from repercussions and support his wish for retirement in Palma.

If Servius obdurately insists on clinging to power in defiance on the Senate, I will ask Manius to declare where he stands. If he stands with the Senate, I will ask the Speaker to call a new emergency session of the Senate.

I call upon all Senators here to declare themselves now. Would you support the impeachment of the Consul if he does not resign within a day? All those who would, shout out now! What say you, must the tyrant go? Must the Republic be restored to its former glory? For the love of Rome, Senators, say: Aye!

Death the destroyer of worlds
11-30-2006, 12:56
*Stands up and raises first in the air*

AYE !

TinCow
11-30-2006, 13:09
Aye!

Braden
11-30-2006, 13:37
*Manius raises his head, a sullen look is upon him*

Numerius,

I will bring your attention to the fact that I did in fact Vote IN FAVOUR of Emergency Motion #2, as I had hoped that such an act would “save” my friend from himself.

My fervour was mainly cast against those who would have made my friend the Consul an enemy of the Republic or otherwise criminalised him.

I have sent a letter to the Consul asking him to justify his actions and requesting that he withdraw our armies post-haste.

I await his response currently, however, I feel that the situation can only be resolved “Constitutionally” if the Consul resigns by his own hand.

Impeachment could leave a void that cannot be very well filled, and I hope for a smooth transition of power to a new Consul.

I do not, Numerius, completely accept that the Consul is to blame for what you term a “sorry state” in our homelands. The Consul has had pressure to provide a massive surplus in coin as well as fight wars on two fronts.

However, this is academic now, as the Consul will either resign or will be removed from office…..after that, I do not know what will happen but I do support your words to defend him against any revenge by the Senate.

WE must not forget the triumphs the Consul has achieved during his term of office and I strongly believe that it was the pressures of this vaulted office at such a young age that have created the man he now is….for good or ill.

*with a sigh Manius slumps back down. The old man who was speaking for Manius previously enters the chambers, walks to Manius and places a comforting hand upon his shoulder....he speaks with him briefly and they exchange a comforting smile.*

*Manius stands again, more resolve shows upon his face*

So Members of the Senate.....it also falls to me to shout AYE! to this proposal.

Lucjan
11-30-2006, 15:09
* A melancholy man stands slowly and approaches the center of the senate, he carries himself with an air of utter defeat, reaching out with his right hand he lets a scroll unfurl itself, it is written slowly, neatly, with great thought and honest, and it is written in the consul's handwriting. The man drops the scroll to the ground and looks as though he were ready to weep. *

"I have failed.." *The man raises a hand to the right side of his face and breathes deeply.* "Senators, this was not supposed to happen."

*Looking about the faces around him he swallows his emotions before speaking again.*

" The actions that have occured in Thrace were not..supposed..to happen. Generals Gnaeus and Kaeso were given the order to mislead their superiors and march into Thracian lands, yes, but only if the motion to kill the consul had passed. However, it seems that false rumors have reached them before I. The Consul had given them the orders to march on Sarmisegatusa and Tribus Iazyges in the event that a motion to slay the consul is passed. He had intended to spread his opponents thin and bolster his own defences while they recuperated and recoiled from the confusion. False rumors about the proposed motion seem to have arrived to these generals before the actual results did...and before I did. I am the consul's personal messenger. I was to deliver this message in all haste to the general's if the results of the motion passed in favor of the consul's protection. " *The man lifts the message from the ground and reads it aloud.*

"My friends, your loyalty has known no bounds in your compliance with my requests in these dire times, and I will make certain that in the memory of the Aemilii, your honor will be held and revered til the end of days. But I write you now to tell you instead not to engage our plans. My life is guaranteed, and there is no need to cross the Danube. The will of the senate has decided that I will not be perceived as a hero in the eyes of patricians today, but we shall let history decide how my rule is seen by our posterity. I applaud this senate on its course at the end of the emergency session, and am glad that there are still so many good men in the Republic that they would not vote to pass the slaying of another Roman man. The greatest crisis in Rome's entire history has been averted, my only wish now is that my reign has seen Rome's military might displayed vocally enough to the world that the next hundred generations of Roman men can see their great Republic work more towards the betterment of itself at home, rather than having to face the constant struggles abroad. I will be retiring soon to my estate at Palma, please, when you have some time, come and visit me, that we may sit and reminisce, and be thankful that the level heads of good Roman men persevered, and this great nation avoided the tumult of civil war.

I do not know, if the time had ever come, if I would have been able to plunge my sword into another roman's heart. My legion has sworn its life to me...but in that respect, I feel that if we had not avoided this great catastrophe, I may have been remembered not just as Rome's greatest conqueror, but also as the man who fell to Roman arms without lifting a finger in his own defence.

My utmost thanks to you both.
In nomine Roma, et pro totus doxa deum.
Servius"

But...I expected these men to be here awaiting the results, not out on the front with their men. I have failed, who knows what will happen now.
*The man begins to break down* If news of Thrace reaches the consul he might assume the actual results to be a ruse and prepare his defences. He might march! *The man becomes frantic, and is detained by the guards, despite his attempts to squirm away from them and head for the door.* "I MUST REACH THE CONSUL! *The man begins to scream.*

econ21
11-30-2006, 15:24
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senators, the die is cast. We cannot abide to be ruled one more day by such a man as this Servius.

First, he breaks the constitution purely to frustrate the will of the Senate. He is condemned in his own words:


The senate almost unanimously pushed for eastward expansion recently....I would laugh to see such a poor decision wrought upon this Republic, so it must be shown with the most undeniable facts that I will not let this occur. With Iberia, THERE SHALL BE WAR!

And now, he overrides a Senate motion, causing Roman lives to be needlessly spilled attacking Thracian settlements "to spread his opponents thin and bolster his own defences". Senators, he was ordering good Romans to their deaths just to protect his own neck!

This is treason! This is an outrage! I demand an emergency session of Senate. And this time, gentlemen, let us not waste time on idle debate and conflicting motions. That will only provide the confusion and time the Consul needs to move against us.

Let us proceed immediately to a vote on a single resolution:

Emergency motion 1: This house impeaches the Consul. He is to be immediately removed from office, placed under arrest and tried for treason.

I am calling on the Senate speaker to open a second emergency session of Senate and need now two seconders, so then we can start to vote without delay on this motion.

econ21
11-30-2006, 15:30
[SENATE SPEAKER]: (The portly man lumbers to take the stand, sweat falling profusely from his face)

(Softly, hesitantly) Errr... Senators... I... I am an old man and I have a headache....

(Louder with conviction) Senators, in view of the unprecedented crisis facing the Republic, I am opening a second emergency session of Senate.

Senators, I have long stood before you as an impartial man. Despite the occasional charge levelled against me, I have tried earnestly to be fair and objective. I have never favoured one motion over another, one Senator over another, except on procedural grounds.

But Senators, what are matters of the constition and of legal motions, if not procedural ones? On matters such as this, I cannot be impartial. I am on the side of the constitution. I uphold the law. The Consul has broken the Constitution. He has broken the law.

I am tabling Senator Numerius's emergency motion 1. And as soon as I receive two seconders, I will put it to an immediate vote, to be closed within 24 hours.

(Softly) And then, the gods help the Republic.

Braden
11-30-2006, 15:40
*Shielding Manius defensively, Manius’s Speaker shouts*

Remove this messenger from the Senate chambers immediately!! We cannot countenance such interruptions or outbursts!

It still stands that the Consul gave such an order and he must be judged upon that order by the Senate!

*Manius appears dazed and confused behind the older man and tries to stand*

The Republic must live and for that to happen a potential despot must be removed from office!

*The older man removes the cowl from his head to fully reveal himself as the master spy and former Senator Decius Curtius*

I have served the greatest Consuls in our history and they would be turning in their graves were they here to pay witness to such excesses on both sides!

*Manius manages to push past Decius’s frame but stumbles forward…he appears overweight and sweaty…but forces his way to his feet in front of Decius*

Manius – I would hear no more of this, do as you will tutor…….father…..but I will be no part of this any more!

*Manius forces Decius out of his way, the old man staggers but regains his footing, and Manius strides out of the chambers*

….a pause Senators…..

*Decius, with a flurry of his cloak, spins on his heals and swiftly takes after Manius*

econ21
11-30-2006, 15:58
SENATE SPEAKER: I have received word from Senator Decius Curtius that he seconds Emergency Motion 1. I also second this motion and so - since the motion now has the required two seconders - I am ordering the scribes to open a vote on it. Voting will close in 24 hours.

This Emergency Session of Senate is now closed. Senators are, of course, free to debate amongst themselves.

Mount Suribachi
12-01-2006, 00:03
Debate?

*laughs uproariously*

Why, when even the speaker comes out in favour of a motion, what is the point of debate? Tell me Mr Speaker, would a Senator who speaks out against this motion, would he be guilty of treason and would you stand by and watch him murdered in this house with nary a word of complaint?

Just curious.

Now, excuse me, it seems the entire Patrician class has gone mad, and its making my asthma worse.

*Oppius slips out of the Senate*

TinCow
12-01-2006, 03:51
*Cnaeus gestures to a servent standing towards the back. A few words are exchanged, the man nods, and moves off quickly along the same route Oppius Aemilius took.*

econ21
12-01-2006, 16:35
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: The Senate has spoken and this time, it is with a clear voice.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73589

We are united. Servius Aemilius is impeached and no longer leads this Republic. I request the Senate Speaker to leave immediately with a warrant for the arrest of Servius on the charge of treason.


(The portly Senate Speaker sways and stumbles, only just steadying himself on his lectern. He shoots Numerius a look of stunned incomprehension, as if to say “Why me, dear Jove, why me?” He sits down, looking red faced and bewildered, sweating profusely.)


If the Speaker does not return immediately with the accused – alone and without of his army - then each one of us must leave this place and prepare to drag the fugitive here in chains. Because then we will know that the Titans have broken free of Tartarus and that the world that we love is about to be engulfed in flame.


(Numerius resumes his seat in the Senate. And a clerk rushes with a flannel of cold water to console the hapless Senate Speaker.)

Tamur
12-01-2006, 17:15
It is done, then. May Vulcan's fires rise up to consume the outlaw, so that no Roman blood need be spilt over this most disasterous of events.

econ21
12-01-2006, 21:52
[SENATE SPEAKER]:

(The Senate Speaker stumbles into the Senate, white-faced, clearly exhausted by the several days he has spent on the road. Numerius looks behind the Speaker, but then his gaze falls to the floor as he realises the old man has come alone)

"Gentlemen of the Senate, I have spoken to the Cons... I have spoken to Servius Aemilius. I attempted to deliver the warrant for his arrest, but he tossed it aside as if it were a poor child's plaything. He bade me be still while he wrote and then, when he had finished, he read out the following - which he ordered me to stay to the Senate:"


"A terrible war has been declared on Rome this day. This time not by barbarians, or by Greeks, or by any number of the gods' terrible plagues. This time war has been declared upon Rome by greedy, aged men who in their twilight years have seen the edge of their mortality, and become so frightened that those who will surpass them will also outshine them that they would shove this great nation to the brink of destruction. They have threatened to unleash the destruction of the Titans upon our Roman world, and in due course they have tempered their swords for the coming storm.

I, for one, will not stand to see the people who I have so tirelessly dedicated myself to struck back a hundred years by such foul deeds, and vow to pledge my life in defence of true, Roman values, Roman virtues, and Roman honor.

The corrupted villains who sit in this senate and have allowed it to rot, atrophy and decay in the name of their own personal wealthy and greed will be put to rest! And as the phoenix who rises from the ashes, a new senate will be born, representative of all the men of Rome, and not marred by the endless rule of self serving tyrants. The virtues that once made Rome the envy of all man will be seen again.

And Rome will be the jewel of mankind for countless years to come."

(The Senate Speaker looks bewildered and mutters:)

"Senators, I have failed and may the gods have mercy on our poor country."

econ21
12-01-2006, 21:53
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: (Numerius jumps to his feet) Senators, friends, Romans! You have your answer! You heard it: “a new Senate”! And you can bet that “new Senate” will not be formed in Palma or Emporiai. Senators, he is coming - Servius’s men in Iberia are but a few seasons march from Rome. The shadow of his armies chased the poor Senate speaker all the way across the Massilia bridge.

Rise you, true Romans! Come on, you “corrupted villains”! On your feet! Summon your horses! Marshall your men! The hour is late and we are long past talking. We must ride now to our units and muster all men of honour to the defence of the Republic.

The path ahead of us may be long, painful and dark. But I swear to you, my brothers, we will come through this victorious. When we next meet in this place, we will embrace and drink to the health of those who brought low the traitor and his legions!

Glaucus
12-01-2006, 23:09
*Letter from Quintus Libo*

I never thought I would see the day when Roman turned on Roman. You senators have declared war on a man who led the forces of Rome further then any other. A man who was a star, guiding us in our hour of darkness. When enemies were on all sides, he lead us out, and now we stand on the threshold of world domination. This man deserves our thanks, and instead we offer him knives. I must stand with this man. Servius, I pledge myself to you so all the fools here in the senate may here me. Hear me, and know that a new age is coming. Rome will rule the world, she will be immune to any threat, on day. But we must make it so. We will have it no other way.

Signed,
Quintus Libo

GeneralHankerchief
12-01-2006, 23:56
Servius, I cannot believe this. You have forsaken everything - family, duty, country - for your megalomania. I wonder if that meeting in the desert set these things in motion.

I, for one, will be fighting on the side of the True Senate. I hope that the Aemilii realize this and join me.

Dutch_guy
12-02-2006, 00:13
* a letter bearing Flavius Pacuvius' seal is opened in the senate *

Civil War it is then...

I disagreed with the senate's motion to impeach our consul, and have therefore decided, apparently the only one from my family to do so, to put my trust in our lawful Consul - Servius Aemillius

I had hoped to never see the day Romans would fight fellow Romans, but alas, it is so - and all because the senate found the need to impeach our consul ! Is that what we have become ? A people led by the whims of a few frustrated old men, and the ideals they advocate !

I sure hope not !

I march with our consul, and I'd advise all my potential enemies to do the same.

No Roman needs to die, just make the right choice - support our consul !

:balloon2:

Death the destroyer of worlds
12-02-2006, 00:33
Thankfully some blood in my family still runs true. We must crush this rebellion against the senate or perish as a free nation. All those loyal to the Republic make your way as fast as you can to Italy, pausing only to crush any traitors that bar your way. Italy must be ours !

econ21
12-31-2006, 10:35
[SENATE SPEAKER]: How long has it been since we last met, brothers?

(The old Senate speaker looks around mournfully, with a bewildered air - the man has never recovered since his torture by Servius's agents.)

It is good to see so many familiar faces - some true friends (looks at the Senate loyalists), others old friends who are now re-united with us (looks at former Consular generals). The Civil War has claimed many lives, but as always, it has been the young and the lowly who have suffered the most. We Senators have a duty to them, a blood debt. We must rebuild the Republic, but it must be better, stronger, than ever before.

I formally open this session of Senate. The first item of business must be the election of a new First Consul who will lead our efforts at restoration and recovery. I will hear other motions if Senators believe them required, but for now, I believe we need to unite around a leader. We cannot endure another moment where the Senate is divided against a so-called "Consul".

I ask for candidates for the post of the First Consul to present themselves. The deadline is 3rd January, 18.00 hours UK time. There will then be a 24 hour period of voting.

GeneralHankerchief
12-31-2006, 19:54
Manifesto of Marcellus Aemilius:

Senators, the greatest challenge to the Republic has now passed. And we are victorious! The Republic has stood firm, although these events will affect us forever.

I am hereby running for Consul (a five-year term less the year that has already passed since the civil war started) on the promise that my term will bring healing and closure. Only together can we rebuild the Republic. I am willing to forgive most of the Senators that sided with Servius during the war. Flavius Pacuvius initiated no hostile action against Senate forces and instead stayed in Afrika and tried to hold it down. Quintus Libo, likewise, sided with Servius but continued to fight the Iberians, at great personal risk. My brother Oppius communicated with me privately, before he knew the outcome of the decisive battle, that he no longer cared for the civil war and instead was determined to see Carthage put in the ground. I shall join you in seeing that happen, brother.

However, not all can be forgiven. The actions (or is it inactions?) of Publius Laevinius in the final battle cost many lives and may have let Servius escape. He must stand trial again for gross and repeated insubordination. Likewise, the two junior Consular commanders at the battle for Rome (Quintus Naevius and Appius Ignatius) most likely know Servius' whereabouts. They must be questioned. In addition, an effort must be made to bring this monster to justice. I have a good idea of where to begin looking.

As far as foreign policy goes, we must take back what our enemies have gained over this past year. Since most of us are commanding large armies all near Italia, I will be reassigning commanders to various theatres based on age, experience, and loyalty. Ideally a balance should be made between making sure that all Servian generals are supervised and making sure that the supervisors (my father and Tiberius Coruncanius most notably) have capable commanders that can replace them should they fall ill or pass to the Elysian Fields. Further land gains shall be reassessed based on how this system is working. Ideally, I would like to have Carthage either crippled or destroyed by the end of this term, as well as significant progress made in Iberia.

An effort shall be made to see that the cities on the Italian Peninsula get the larger palaces that they so desparately need, since our previous Consul did not much care for the expansion of these cities. In addition, I shall try and make our cities on the frontier more Roman-ized so that the people can fully understand that they are better off under the rule of the benevolent Republic of Rome.

Senators, I am not my nephew. To those of you who are still not convinced despite the actions taken at the Battle for Rome, let me just say this: I want my Consulship to be a boring one. We need a return to normalcy after the events of the past years. Finally, I invite my colleague Numerius Aureolus to stand with me in a gesture of friendship, unity, and working together to rebuild this glorious Republic.

GeneralHankerchief
12-31-2006, 20:03
In addition, I propose the following motions:

Motion 13.1: All efforts shall be made to find the traitor Servius Aemilius and bring him to trial. This includes the questioning of Senators in order to find out what they know.

Motion 13.2: For his gross and repeated insubordination in the critical Battle for Rome, as well as the possibilty that Servius escaped due to his lack of commitment, Publius Laevinius is to stand trial.

Motion 13.3: For their roles in Servius' escape, as well as siding with the Consul and initiating hostile actions against the Senate and People of Rome, Quintus Naevius and Appius Ignatius are to stand trial.

Motion 13.4: All efforts shall be made to bring the killer of Manius Coruncanius' wife and attempted murderer of his children to justice.

Motion 13.5: For initiating hostile actions against the Senate and People of Rome, Manius Coruncanius is to stand trial.

Motion 13.6: Reinforcements and a Senate supervisor are to be sent to Oppius Aemilius, who is defending Aleria against the Carthaginians, as soon as possible.

econ21
01-02-2007, 01:03
NUMERIUS AUREOLUS: I am honoured by Senator Marcellus's offer to stand with him as a candidate for Co-Consul. I am happy to accept in a spirit of unity.

I second all of Marcellus's motions, with the exception of Motion 13.5. Although it pained me bitterly to see Roman lives shed on account of Manius Coruncanius's decision to stand with his friend, Servius, I do not see what good a trial would do. The war is over now and Rome needs to reunite. I would rather make a gesture of friendship and reconciliation. Just as Marcellus intends to reach out to his brother Oppius, I suggest we do likewise with our former brother in arms, Manius. Manius has fought bravely for Rome in the past and, even if misguided in his allegiance, showed great tactical at Ancrya. I would welcome the opportunity to return to the field in the east, with his Legio II fighting in parallel with my Legio V. Together, I believe we could march to Antioch and beyond.

Mount Suribachi
01-02-2007, 11:40
*Oppius Aemilius walks into the Senate, his skin is pasty, his eyes sunken, he shuffles along with a limp*

Conscript Fathers, my scouts tell me that the dog known as Muttines of Corduba and his army are away in the south of Sardinia, so I deemed it safe enough to make the short journey across the sea to Rome.

I am grateful to by brother Marcellus and my old friend Numerius for the olive branch they reach out to me.

*he coughs and looks at Numerius*

I told you the consulship was yours for the taking ~:)

But know this Romans, I never wanted this civil war, I tried everything I could to avert it. All I ever wanted was for Servius to be treated fairly, not backed into a corner were surely we all knew he would fight his way out.....but that point is moot now. Many of you wrote to me urging me to kill Servius, I wrote back and told you that I could not kill my friend and nephew, and that is true. No, my role is this tragedy was to deliver him into your hands and let the Gods decide, though in my heart I knew that they had already decided his fate.

Why else did I not wait to receive clear orders from Servius, enabling me to justly claim ignorance of his plans? Why else Conscript Fathers do you think I took so long in sailing to Italy? Yes brother Marcellus, I could surely have beaten you there, had I pushed my slaves to row faster and harder, had I not carefully scouted the sea ahead of me at all times., had I not used evry excuse to dawdle and dally. Even once on Corsica I could have made a dash for Italy on more than one occasion and avoided the Senate fleet. But I chose not to. Just as I chose to ignore the orders Servius gave me through his whore Muttines and double back to re-take Caralis from Carthage, though alas that plan back-fired on me as I was double-crossed and ambushed. But though my plans came to nought, Servius was ruined - 2 whole armies, 2500 men that he was counting on were not to be his to command. Tell me senators, what difference would those 2 armies have made if the battle of 6 armies became the battle of 8 armies?

And know this noble Senators, not a single Roman died at my hands during this unpleasantness! Only 800 Carthaginian dogs, alas that there are still another 600 in Sardinia who need to suffer the same fate so that vengeance for my legion, and the innocents massacred at Caralis, can be taken. I thank my brother for his plan to allow me to operate under the supervision of my father, though I say that I need no such supervision. I did not betray Rome before, and I shall not betray her now. All I ask is for reinforcements that I may re-take Caralis, kill Muttines and then travel to Africa where I swear I shall raze their cities to the ground and enslave their people. These treacherous scum cannot be allowed to pollute Roman civilisation and peace any longer! They must be destroyed, and I humbly ask to be allowed to do it.

*Oppius sits down, then quickly stands up again*

Oh I forgot, Marcellus my brother, I am so glad to see you alive and well. May you make the Aemilli name the greatest of them all.

SwordsMaster
01-02-2007, 14:33
*Luca stands up. There is a new light in him, like he is more like his former self*

Senators! First I wish to congratulate those whose lives were in danger all over the battlefields of Europe, and specially those who stood for the republic.

Hopefully now that we are united together under the same flag once more, the Republic will know no rival. Of course, the first priorities now are to re establish our former borders, and firml expand against the Seleucids, Iberians, and, above all, Carthaginians who have used our weakness to deliver several blows upon us.

I request, senators that I am the one sent to deal with the Carthaginian threat. My Legion is combat worthy, at good strength and has proved itself recently.

So I propose Motion 13.7:

That Luca Mamilius and his Legion are sent to deal with Muttines, liberate the Islands from carthaginian presence and then continue to Afrika where to establish a firm presence by taking the city of Tingis.

Lucjan
01-03-2007, 14:17
A legionary enters the chamber carrying small scroll. "Senators. A young messenger boy left this with me at the senate hall's entrance, and bade me deliver it as a public message immediately. When he said who it was from I tried to grab him, but he squirmed out of my hand and ran towards the forum and I couldn't even identify him if I had to..he just looked like a regular boy..." The legionary stops his rambling as he notices the irritated look on more than a few senators faces. He unfolds the note and reads it aloud.

"In nomini Roma, et pro totus doxa deum. Servius." The legionary drops his eyes to the floor, clearly ashamed that he was the one who had to deliver the message.

econ21
01-03-2007, 21:34
SENATE SPEAKER: The deadline for nominations for the post of First Consul has expired. I therefore declare Marcellus Aemilius and Numerius Aureolus elected unopposed as Co-Consuls.

As no motion has received two seconders, all motions fail.

Now, gentlemen, I believe the Civil War has left us exhausted. I encourage you to return to your estates, or to your armies, and work to restore the Republic to it's old glories. Farewell!

And with that, the portly old man shuffles out of the Speakers chair and bumbles over to the doors, letting the few silent Senators who still remain leave first. He takes one last whistful look at the now empty chamber, before closing the larger wooden doors and locking them firmly closed.