Campaign maps

[Modding Forum]

Differences to RTW

No land/water ratio limit?
Max size for regions is still 510 *510 but the amount of water doesn't appear to be causing crashes anymore. Tested this out yesterday with a map that used to crash if more water was added. Don't know if limit has completely gone but certainly much higher now.
-- wilddog

corrected_regions.tga not generated
It looks like the old corrected regions.TGA is no longer generated which is a real pain as now you can't easily spot unintentional land bridges or where amending the height map has changed the regions file.
-- wilddog

Maximum number of map regions is 198 (plus 2 sea regions)

[wilddog]

One thing I've noticed or rather not noticed.

It looks like the old corrected regions.TGA is no longer generated which is a real pain as now you can't easily spot unintentional land bridges or where amending the height map has changed the regions file.

[alpaca]

One thing I've noticed or rather not noticed.

It looks like the old corrected regions.TGA is no longer generated which is a real pain as now you can't easily spot unintentional land bridges or where amending the height map has changed the regions file.
Aren't land bridges shown on the map now? Should be fairly easy to spot after starting the game.
But yes, that file was always useful.

[Merlin's Apprentice]

were land bridges in RTW placed using green in the map_features.tga?

[Lusted]

No, landbridges were done by editing the regions.

[Merlin's Apprentice]

So did they do a new form of land bridge?
All the land bridges show up in the map features tga as green

[alpaca]

Green? Can you give me a screenshot?

[Merlin's Apprentice]

https://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m172/Byronwayne_2006/map_features.jpg


not a good jpg for some reason

[alpaca]

Thanks. Why is all of America a cliff though?

[Merlin's Apprentice]

dont know if its a cliff or just prevents certain ship types
read you need a special ship to get to america
larger ship late in the game from what Ive read

[wilddog]

Aren't land bridges shown on the map now? Should be fairly easy to spot after starting the game.
But yes, that file was always useful.

Alpaca
The problem without the corrected regions is that you are in a guessing game as to how the game will decide which combination of height map pixels forms a land map square in regions - which makes it more awkward to work out positioning of cities.

Whilst the features map contols the 'new' land bridge' feature I don't know whether its disallowed any of the old diagonal connection land bridges (I haven't checked but I doubt it) and its this connection which is a pain to spot without the corrected regions map.

Of course the reason for no corrected regions map maybe because you can continue a campaign game with several of the maps changed eg features, heights even the terrain text file (ie no need to kill the map.rwm file).

[Myrddraal]

In RTW landbridges were made by exploiting a small bug in the game. In M2TW, they've been made official and are displayed on the campaign map as green arrows.

[shifty157]

Is there a limit to the span of a land bridge? Or could you make it as long as you want? Connecting any two points and going over any terrain?

[repman]

I included new ones in my minimod Deus lo vult, and think they can be as long as you want

repman

[Epistolary Richard]

I tried just adding a new one between Corsica and Sardinia but it didn't appear. Is there more to this than just adding a three-pixel green line to map_features.tga and regenerating your map.rwm?

[repman]

@EP
strange it works fine in my minimod. only necessary to change the pixel to green in the features tga.

repman

[shifty157]

Perhaps its where the bridge starts? Does the bridge need to start on land or on water?

[wilddog]

I think they are pretty much likely to crash if it ends on sea or river (haven't tried any other impassible). It will also generate if you start well in land by mistake - but may lead to some instability.

Length is pretty much determined by how far you can walk as you have to cross it in one go. Haven't tested what happens if someone blocks at the other end and you retreat or lose a fight - may be CTD as at least on a retreat you are likely on a long land bridge not to have enough movement back to make it!

Example below

https://img478.imageshack.us/img478/4572/image3ze3.th.jpg (https://img478.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image3ze3.jpg)

note you can cross the bridge above I was just testing alpacas 'heights to regions' tiles theory with this little map of the bristol channel.

[Spur]

dont know if its a cliff or just prevents certain ship types
read you need a special ship to get to america
larger ship late in the game from what Ive read

The cliffs were probably how they intended it originally, maybe - but the real stopper for early ships is the deep ocean (darker red colours) in groundtypes, replace those with shallow water red and any early ship can go across, no problem.

So that distinction in ocean depth really works now, compared with RTW.

[WImPyTjeH]

The color is darker because they edited the water surface file to make it more realistic - they just made the middle ocean impassible. Try it out yourself, you can even make the sea red :)

W

[Spur]

The color is darker because they edited the water surface file to make it more realistic - they just made the middle ocean impassible. Try it out yourself, you can even make the sea red :)

W

That water_surface.tga you are talking about - I know that - been making maps for quite some time now, thanks.

I meant changing RGB values 64 0 0 (deep ocean) and 128 0 0 (medium, just for good measure, not really necessary IIRC) to 196 0 0 (shallow sea) in map_groundtypes.tga. This removes the barrier to sail to America right from the start of the game.

You know, you can make faces in the landscape, or write your logo with mountains, or have a woodpanel landscape everywhere. But changing the watercolour is fun, too... :)

[miak]

Alpaca
The problem without the corrected regions is that you are in a guessing game as to how the game will decide which combination of height map pixels forms a land map square in regions - which makes it more awkward to work out positioning of cities.

Whilst the features map contols the 'new' land bridge' feature I don't know whether its disallowed any of the old diagonal connection land bridges (I haven't checked but I doubt it) and its this connection which is a pain to spot without the corrected regions map.

Of course the reason for no corrected regions map maybe because you can continue a campaign game with several of the maps changed eg features, heights even the terrain text file (ie no need to kill the map.rwm file).

O really so you dont need to delete the RWM file thats cool saves some time:beam: .

[wilddog]

Miak
For some reason not deleting the RWM worked when I was creating a really basic map. However when I then started adding more and more to it I then needed to delete the RWM file so sorry for the mis-information it looks like you still need to delete the RWM.

[Burns]

What are the maximum campaign map demensions allowed? My map is 513x601 (heights.tga, ect) and heights, climates and ground_types always returns an error in the logs.

[wilddog]

max size for Heights.tga is 1021x1021 which means 510x510 for regions.

Thee is text file in the base folder which must contain the equivalent region size. Its the descr_terrain.txt

dimensions
{
width 510
height 510
}

[Burns]

Now are most of you guys succeeding in editing the current campaign map or have any of you been able to get a totally NEW campaign map working? I'm finding it quite.. hmm... unworking. If thats even a word.

[wilddog]

Burns, Mine is totally new.

https://img293.imageshack.us/img293/281/britmapvs0.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

[Dave1984]

Burns, Mine is totally new.

https://img293.imageshack.us/img293/281/britmapvs0.jpg (https://imageshack.us)


That's beautiful, when are you releasing it? ;) ~:santa:

[wilddog]

D Wilson

Thanks for the comment.

Its for my Princes, Kings and Heroes mod but is still a long long way off before it will be released.

[serenius4tsd]

Great map wilddog. How did you create it? BDH method?

[Burns]

Very nice. Alright so I will restart work on my map since something is not making it work properly. I need advice on some points:

To start a new campaign map, its best to strip down descr_strat to most basic form?
- So, have only 2 factions and only 2 provinces to see if it will work?
- Remove resources?
- Remove all campaign scripts?

In terms of the map itself: Lets say like with my map I start work on a map that is 513 and 601 (as my map was). So I get it all nicely laid out. I started with heights.tga. I then used that file to create a basic ground_types.tga map. The main problems arise out of the coherence (maybe?) between these maps and regions.tga and features.tga?

What about the minimap files?

[wilddog]

serenius4tsd
Yes as a start point I use the BDH method to get a basic map and basic heights. Then you need to stretch tilt etc to get perspective and dimensions right then you need to edit it to for playability.

Burns
Yes first thing is strip down strat file. Get done to one or two factions. I actually went down to one to begin with plus the rebels who you don't need to place. Note its best to leave the general and a heir in or you will keep getting crashes. Just watch the family tree set up or leave all the named characters in if you are unsure. For other factions simply change them so they emerge later.

Make sure you also change the Win conditions ie if it say 45 + Jerusalem - you need to make sure you don't own 45 and need to make sure Jerusalem is left in or taken out ie best to replace with a city that is going to be your capital. Also if removing provinces you need to take them out of the mercenaries file.

Next set up basic heights and just use that to create the other maps. Watch out for how you generate the regions map. The Photoshop resize with nearest neighbor works correctly but I used to use an old paintshop pro with its equivalent option and I didn't get the right map conversion of sea and land.

Minimaps aren't an issue you just make them later.

[serenius4tsd]

Okay, some stuff Ive gathered:

-Seems the game works with a map that has 90% sea and only 10% (or less, Im not sure). Maybe land to sea ratio crash is completely gone?

-I have managed to make the map size 584 x 234. Map will not extend past 784 pixels.(may be even less than that that it CTD)

[irishron2004]

For the map_ground_types.tga a list for the different colors, eg. forest, fertile, barren, types, etc.?

[wisefather]

Wow!

I still cant figure out how to add cities to the vannila map:help: , you should write a tutorial wilddog

[wilddog]

wisefather - There are tutorials out there on this. Have a look also at RTW as there isn't really a lot of difference.

The only issue people seem to have had real difficulty with is just getting to the Text file containing the names as that isn't extracted from the unpacker.

[rc_848]

Great map wilddog. How did you create it? BDH method?


What's the BDH method?:help:

[wilddog]

See here

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39035

[rc_848]

Thanks for the link wilddog although I already know the method, it's just that I've never heard the term BDH. But now I know what it stands for.:2thumbsup:

[nikolai1962]

Why is all of America a cliff though?

If you surround an island or archipelago with cliffs it stops brigands spawning.

[alpaca]

If you surround an island or archipelago with cliffs it stops brigands spawning.
It does?
Well you can do the same with those hidden resources at any rate, and it's easier.

[nikolai1962]

It does?
Well you can do the same with those hidden resources at any rate, and it's easier.

Yup. I guess they added the HR way as having america blocked by cliffs wouldn't work too well. They used the cliff thing in rtw and BI i think, scandinavia was one example IIRC.

[Red Spot]

about the generation of map_regions, or better said the lack of it ..

who of you owns RTW (or is able to pick it up for 6-ish euro)?
you are all able to generate a map_regions, you just need to load your map in RTW once when you're ready with map_heights and use the generated map_regions for the outline (than again Photoshop resizes map_heights just fine if the nearest neigbour option is set)


G

[methoz]

any mapmaker? i have mod idea....
or map tools?? :embarassed: