A Song Of Ice and Fire

[iwantmyaccountdeleted]

Someone think M2TW is perfect for a ASOIAF mod?

For those who don't know what A song of ice and fire is. It is a pretty good series of novels about a medieval style fantasy. It is written by George R.R. Martin. Pick up a copy form your local library and read it. It's a good read. I know a pitiful amount about modding, but I'd be willing to learn. unfortunately I have a little free time so I can't actually input too much into an effort. I'll just try to co-ordinate things. Or leave it to a more experienced modder.

Feel free to reply.

Stormbrigner

[a_b_danner]

A Fire and Ice mod was started for RTW. A very nice map was nearly completed, and a fair amount of othe work was done as well. It bogged down under the weight of work a full conversion requires, especially models and skins.

MTW2 would be much easier to convert, no doubt about it. I'm sure some of the old gang will do just that.

[CrownOfSwords]

Loved the books, would love the mod.

[Liu]

Definitely interested in this. But yeah, I'm talentless too :(

[Lanfire]

It would be a dream come true

[iwantmyaccountdeleted]

Lol. Anyone know the e-mail of the old gang?

I wanna see this come true. *clicks assassinate button for a general with high chivalry and no piety and imagines him to be Ned Stark* :D. Anyways, it would be, in the words of my friend 'pretty f*cking awesome!'

The problem is that there's few talented artists and skinners for too many mods. I'd love to learn, as I'm taking an Art GCSE, so, any ideas on how to start the landslide going?

[Sahran]

Would also love the mod.

What you could do for an early release is something like what I think they are doing for the M&B ASOIAF - simply use the pre-existing models, changing the banners, names, and map, while if you can, maybe retexturing some of the faction colors to match.

Future versions can have you introducing new models, but prior to that, you could gather up support and momentum by introducing a map and bare-bones version. Pretty much everything in Westeros is there in some shape or form.

[ChewieTobbacca]

I had posted this earlier on another forum but the details remain on M2TW mod for ASOIAF. At this point, the only question is... which direction do we want to head?

At this point though, the full map is up to debate. After all, ASOIAF wouldn't seem complete without the Dany and the eastern continent involved, though at the same time, most of the war has been on westeros so far.

It is of note that M2TW will apparently support up to 30 factions, an increase from RTW, which certainly bodes well. I had seen the Westeros mod for RTW try to make the major houses the only factions involved, but seeing as how part of ASOIAF's plot lies in the intricacies of vassals and lesser houses, it would seem almost innappropriate without throwing in lesser houses into the fray.

While brainstorming some ideas, I came up with a list of some houses that should absolutely be in the game on Westeros (assuming game starts with the takeover in KL after Robert's death):

Stark
Lannister
Baratheon at Storm's End
Baratheon at Dragonstone
Baratheon at King's Landing
Tully
Martell
Tyrell
Greyjoy
Arryn

Then you can throw in lesser houses which have proven to be rebellious,independent, or played key parts in the book and were certainly not weak by any means. There were certainly a lot of names that came up to mind such as:

Frey
Bolton
Karstark
Tarly
Hightower
Redwyne
Florent

Those names right off the bat would certainly represent the troubles the Tyrell's and Stark's faced during the story with their vassals either joining other major factions or betraying them.

Now comes the interesting part... what to do with the rest of the slots left? The Night's Watch and the Wildlings can certainly be put into the game - Night's Watch would just be allied (or neutral) to everyone and their castles would be the only way through the Wall (which could be a mountain range for all that it matters until a graphical solution is found). We would also want a faction representing generic Rebels & Bandits.

How we deal with the Targaryens seems to matter on whether we want an eastern continent or not. Targaryens could defenitely be brought in as an emerging faction, as the Mongols were handled. But on that same note, certainly a lot of people would want to be able to play the Targaryens, and that wouldn't be possible without an eastern continent.

If we do throw an eastern continent in, we'd have to add a slew of factions. Along with the Targaryens, we'd want the 9 free cities as independent factions (if to model them accurately). Then we may want to include the Dothraki as a faction as well. Without an official map of the eastern continent until at least ADWD (or the world book or whichever comes out first), there would certainly be a lot of guess work needed for the eastern continent. We also wouldn't want it to be barren/filled with only gigantic provinces. Off the top of my head, potential cities that would be under the rebel faction would be Tolos, Mantarys, Yunkai, Astapor, New Ghis. We could divide the Dothraki Sea into Vaes Dothrak + 12 other lands, one for each khalasar. Yeah, not entirely accurate since the Dothraki were nomadic and didn't build permanent structures, but for gameplay purposes it might be necessary. Then you could have rebel provinces nearby for Lhazar, as well as provinces/towns near the free cities as well, such as in the Disputed Territory (they had to be fighting over more than just empty ground that's for sure...)

Also of great note is that since M2TW will have 4 religions at least (Paganism, Orthodox, Catholicism, Islam), we can use those to represent some of the religions in M2TW such as The Old Gods, The Drowned God, The Faith, The Lord of Light, or the key ones. The pope could be modeled into the High Septon, and being in good standing with the Faith may mean the ability to build guild halls for the Faith Militant (in M2TW, successfully crusading could mean one's faction could build a guild for Knights Templar/Hospitaller). This could be a very interesting feature.

And with princesses, merchants, and priests in M2TW, something RTW lacked, there'd be a whole new element to the game... marry princesses into houses and you may secure an alliance. Kill off the enemy bloodline and watch their faction implode, or maybe you will end up inheriting it. Mercenaries would represent sellsword companies well.

Another great idea someone suggested was to do a mod based on the War of Conquest of Westeros by Aegon the Conqueror. It would give us a LOT of creative license, allow us to focus entirely on Westeros, and gives us creative freedom since that era isn't as detailed/we won't have to adhere to already known knowledge. Nevertheless, there's a lot of possibilities, especially with the ability for more vassal factions, as well as the larger timeframe (it wouldn't be very ASOIAF without marriage intricacies, which would really be limited in War of Five Kings).

Anyways, feel free to suggest ideas, give your opinion, thoughs, etc. on this. It would be great if we could find a good way to get many of these features in, as M2TW really opens the game to ASOIAF unlike RTW. Anyways, if there is a mod for ASOIAF in M2TW, count me in. I have a ton of ideas to use!

[Sahran]

*Nevermind, forgot that house martel owns dorne. :D*

[Steppe Merc]

I love the Song of Ice and Fire books and would deffiently download any mod about it. While it pains me to say so, since I love Dany's story and the Dothraki, it would probably be a great deal easier (and require a great deal less inventing) if you focused on Westeros. It would certaintly simpilify the creation of new units... though perhaps too much so, since there isn't a huge difference between the armies of Westeros.
Then again, the Greyjoy vassals are sea and infantry based, while the Dornishmen are very Arabic like - lighter armor, emphasis on spear and bow, etc. And the Northmen are less about knights than the Southerners.

[Taamati]

I was thinking about doing a campaign for this, just focusing on Westeros. It would be cool to do and probably could get something knocked up fairly quickly for it.

I await eagerly to see if anyone else takes this mod up.

[k995]

I had the same idea a couple of weeks ago so started a topic on twcenter.net :

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=68676

Choosing units for the moment

[zakalwe]

*gives moral support*

would be awesome to see. :)

[Steppe Merc]

If anyone is seriously planning on doing this, I would suggest emailing Mr. Martin... he seems to be very open to email from his fans and stuff, and I think that would be the best choice.

But I have no say what so ever, of course.

[Taamati]

who's Mr Martin?

[iwantmyaccountdeleted]

G.R.R. Martin, the guy who wrote it :D

[Antagonist]

I already made my suggestions for an ASOIAF mod in the twcenter thread, but I'd like to reiterate my support for the idea. In particular I recommend getting Mr. Martin's take on it, and also correpsonding with anyone else who has worked on such a mod (especially the old Westeros Total War project for RTW) to see about sharing resources etc. and combining efforts if possible.

Good luck,

Antagonist

[TurnLeft]

Oh man... I remember this :(

I was doing most of the modelling and skinning for the RTW version of W:TW.
We had a lot of big plans and almost every aspect planned out... but because there was so much work with the actual implementation of the plans we buried ourselves and never had anything released (a lot of half-finished work though).

There was a hosted section at stratcommandcenter, I believe Brutus carried it for awhile after I left. It looks like the section got deleted though... probably due to inactivity for a year at least. Maybe try to PM him there?

Anyways... I'd be interested in taking up the project again and discussing the gameplay dynamics we had planned originally. Also very interested in modelling and skinning once it becomes possible, if only just slight modifications due to the apparent complexity.

EDIT: Cut and pasted into twcenter thread.

GRRM was emailed about this and I believe had said do whatever you'd like with the world but never try to add anything to the storyline. So we felt safe going ahead with the project.

[k995]

Oh man... I remember this :(

I was doing most of the modelling and skinning for the RTW version of W:TW.
We had a lot of big plans and almost every aspect planned out... but because there was so much work with the actual implementation of the plans we buried ourselves and never had anything released (a lot of half-finished work though).

There was a hosted section at stratcommandcenter, I believe Brutus carried it for awhile after I left. It looks like the section got deleted though... probably due to inactivity for a year at least. Maybe try to PM him there?

Anyways... I'd be interested in taking up the project again and discussing the gameplay dynamics we had planned originally. Also very interested in modelling and skinning once it becomes possible, if only just slight modifications due to the apparent complexity.

EDIT: Cut and pasted into twcenter thread.

GRRM was emailed about this and I believe had said do whatever you'd like with the world but never try to add anything to the storyline. So we felt safe going ahead with the project.

its in the archives :

http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showforum=107

Send him a PM

Still got the ideas or files left from the old mod?

[TurnLeft]

its in the archives :

http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/forums/index.php?showforum=107

Send him a PM

Still got the ideas or files left from the old mod?

Got lots of 3ds .max/.cas/.dds files, but it seems like those will no longer be valid. And to be honest what comes with m2tw looks better than anything I ever did.

High/Late era Chiv Knights, Gendarmes, Broken Lances, etc look perfect for the typical Westeros knight. Assuming some modelling tools come out soon all that would really be needed for a first release is reskins and maybe some special character models. A lot of time on the RTW version was spent trying to get proper pikemen, armoured cav, crossbowmen and 2-handed swordsmen in the game, which has all been solved this time around.

If someone wants to start the project I'd definately dig up what I still have and contribute more. Need some sort of dedicated forum though, these 1 thread mods collapse quickly or information gets lost.

[a_b_danner]

Hey TurnLeft, i remember some of those early discussions (arguments?) about faction make up, etc. Some of your modeling/skinning work was very impressive. A full conversion of RTW was so much work though. I really don't know how the 'Forth Age' or 'Crusade TW' guys could do it. They must not get much sleep.

The books are a bit fuzzy now - its been three or four years since i read them.

You are right in that most of the most difficult work seems to have been done already in MTW2. Some skinning work for coats-of-arms on the shields, and perhaps some color changes. Other than that, quite a bit of text-editing. The map from the RTW version should work in MTW2, or so it seems from reading other map modders in the forums.

I may have to restart the books.

[TurnLeft]

Hey... I remember you. There were lots of arguments on the old mod, I think what decided on was that MAYBE only the Frey and Bolton houses were to be independent factions due to their betrayals.

The idea was that although you could have permanent alliances, there was still the inability to direct the resources of one of your major bannermen. Having limited to no control over a good portion of your forces isn't true to the books and would prevent you recreating some of the famous battles. Or creating your own.

Ultimately the faction list was: Stark, (Bolton), Tully, (Frey), Lannister, Arryn, Stanis B, Renly B, Tyrell, Martell, Greyjoy. It went back and forth for months with our old team... I know whoever leads a new project will probably have to listen to it all over again :dizzy2:. IMO 8 or 9 factions (all major houses, split Baratheon?) is plenty to play with for a first release and lots of work. Once you can figure out a good system, implement the lesser houses or free cities

Again, due to the scope of the changes necessary with RTW free cities were omitted (from the planned releases at least) with mercenary companies & sellsails being the only real evidence of another continent.

Nights watch / Wildlings were also a problem. I don't think we had a way to guarantee neutrality of the watch and 3 prime castles would be too juicy a target for a Stark player. Perhaps just a historical battle? How about a mongol style Targaryen invasion? Tons of ideas to pass around.

I have the map files from Rome if the format still works in M2. Don't know if it works and how to fix it if it doesnt, that wasnt my department.

[k995]

Hey... I remember you. There were lots of arguments on the old mod, I think what decided on was that MAYBE only the Frey and Bolton houses were to be independent factions due to their betrayals.

The idea was that although you could have permanent alliances, there was still the inability to direct the resources of one of your major bannermen. Having limited to no control over a good portion of your forces isn't true to the books and would prevent you recreating some of the famous battles. Or creating your own.

Ultimately the faction list was: Stark, (Bolton), Tully, (Frey), Lannister, Arryn, Stanis B, Renly B, Tyrell, Martell, Greyjoy. It went back and forth for months with our old team... I know whoever leads a new project will probably have to listen to it all over again :dizzy2:. IMO 8 or 9 factions (all major houses, split Baratheon?) is plenty to play with for a first release and lots of work. Once you can figure out a good system, implement the lesser houses or free cities
Yes I was thinking the same, a first fase in wich all mayor houses are present and 1 vasal house to see how that works out, if its a succes add the rest (for eacht mayor faction 1 or 2 vasal houses) if it doesnt work in the game, leave them out altogether.

Problem is we dont realy know how the AI handles a vasal ship, and seeing M2TW is just released they will prob change it to make it more realistic.




Again, due to the scope of the changes necessary with RTW free cities were omitted (from the planned releases at least) with mercenary companies & sellsails being the only real evidence of another continent.
Yes 1 continent is work enough, but perhaps something like the aztecs now? Leave some space on the map and in a later fase add part of the other continent




Nights watch / Wildlings were also a problem. I don't think we had a way to guarantee neutrality of the watch and 3 prime castles would be too juicy a target for a Stark player. Perhaps just a historical battle? How about a mongol style Targaryen invasion? Tons of ideas to pass around.

I think we can allie the night watch with everybody except the wildlings, wildlings are just another playable faction .



I have the map files from Rome if the format still works in M2. Don't know if it works and how to fix it if it doesnt, that wasnt my department.
apperently they should work

[Rothe]

I have to say that I'd love to see this project take off in a good way.

I think too many mods collapse under the huge amount of work that needs to be done.

Why not just make the map, and pick and choose existing units and just rename them to get started. I bet you can find almost all units in the books to be close in description to some units in the game.

After you have the map, units and factions figured out, the thing could continue with reskinning etc., but the critical thing would be to get out some sort of playable version of the campaign so that some of the interfaction conflicts etc. could be balanced out and some things like the nights watch could be done. Not to understate the importance of the unit modelling, but many projects seem to buckle because it takes too long to make a complete mod if you try to get all the unit models to work in the first playable version.

I would love to see the map and factions active, even with non-customized unit skins. Just to see how far this thing could go.

I also wonder if you can make custom missions. It would be fun to have a mission to send units to the Nights watch - in essence you would have to gift the units... And also, crusade mechanics could be used to defend against the invasion at the wall. Pope mechanics could maybe be used in some special way to describe the Iron throne etc.

Oh well, it has been some time since I last read the books... I am not a great researcher etc. because I cannot remember specifics so well.

[k995]

Tought about starting a A Song of Ice and Fire mod for M2TW


* GamePLAY :

The period is perfect most current units kan be re-used.

The mod is about the period described in the books, so a couple of years
Turns are 1 week so a campaign of 150-200 turns.

Building minimal(small things month or 4 turns, larger up to 50 turns) , war and diplomacy are the main area's to advance .

Mercenarie companys for hire (expensive but powerfull)

A whole bunch of "heroes" who are your family and heirs, once they are dead your faction is destroyed

Routing should be less severe , in RTW or M2TW routing armys are mostly completly decimated in this mod I would try to get routing units to survive more.

invasion of house Targaryens

invasion of Others

* World:
Paved roads along the kings road, the rest dirt roads or nothing

No rebel area's (dont like those in the current total war games or in the mods)

The whole continent only contains 10 citys (so defend those well)
Sieges are long term affairs, citys would be the shortest siege time (months or 15+ turns) small castles the longest (up until 50+ turns)
This to force the player (AND AI?) to attack and not siege untill surrender)

A whole bunch of "heroes" who are your family and heirs, once they are dead your faction is destroyed

Perhaps remove the adoption and only a very small amount of children will reach the age in wich they can fight

Night watch unpayable and allied to everyone except the wildlings.


* Factions :

Fase 1 :

1 House stark
2 House Barattheon remly storm's end
3 House Aryn
4 House Greyjoy
5 House Lannister
6 House Martel
7 House Tully
8 House Tyrell
9 House Florent (vassal to house Tyrell)
10 House Barattheon Stanis dragonstone
11 Night Watch (np)
12 Wildlings
13 rebel

fase 2 (if the vasalship works out in fase 1)

1 House stark
2 House Bolton (vassal to house stark)
3 House Barattheon remly storm's end
4 House Aryn
5 House Royce (vasal to house Aryn)
6 House Greyjoy
7 House Lannister
8 House Westerling of the Crag (vasal to house lannister)
9 House Martel
10 House Yronwood (vasal to house martel)
11 House Tully
12 House Frey (vassal to house Tully)
13 House Tyrell
14 House Florent (vassal to house Tyrell)
15 House Redwyne (vassal to house Tyrell)
16 Night Watch (np)
17 Wildlings
18 rebel
19 House Barattheon Stanis dragonstone
20 House Targaryen
21 Others




* MAP :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Westeros_map.th.JPG

[k995]

*UNITS :


1 House stark

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Stark_S wit en grijs.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Stark_S wit en grijs.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/STARK UNITS_SICILI_grijs en zwart.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=STARK UNITS_SICILI_grijs en zwart.jpg)

2 House Bolton (vassal to house stark)

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Stark S_Bolton rood.761.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Stark S_Bolton rood.761.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Stark Bolton UNITS_DENMARK_Rood en wit.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Stark Bolton UNITS_DENMARK_Rood en wit.jpg)

3 House Barattheon remly storm's end

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Baratheon RENLY S_Baratheon_storms_end geel en wit.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Baratheon RENLY S_Baratheon_storms_end geel en wit.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Baratheon UNITS_PAPALSTATES wit en bruin.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Baratheon UNITS_PAPALSTATES wit en bruin.jpg)

4 House Aryn
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/ARRYN S_Arryn_licht Blauw en wit.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=ARRYN S_Arryn_licht Blauw en wit.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Arryn UNITS_PORTUGAL_Licht_blauw en wit.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Arryn UNITS_PORTUGAL_Licht_blauw en wit.jpg)

5 House Royce (vasal to house Aryn)
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/ARRYN S_Royce_oranje en grijs.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=ARRYN S_Royce_oranje en grijs.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Arryn Royce_groen en bruin.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Arryn Royce_groen en bruin.jpg)




6 House Greyjoy

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Greyjoy_S_Greyjoy zwart en geel.47a.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Greyjoy_S_Greyjoy zwart en geel.47a.jpg)
Units based on :
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Greyjoy UNITS_HRE_zwart en geel.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Greyjoy UNITS_HRE_zwart en geel.jpg)

7 House Lannister

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Lannister_S_Lannister rood en geel.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Lannister_S_Lannister rood en geel.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Lannister_UNITS_ENGLAND_ROOD EN geel.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Lannister_UNITS_ENGLAND_ROOD EN geel.jpg)

8 House Westerling of the Crag (vasal to house lannister)

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Lannister_S_Westerling geel .th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Lannister_S_Westerling geel .jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Lannister_westerling_UNITS_SPAIN_GEEL EN rood.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Lannister_westerling_UNITS_SPAIN_GEEL EN rood.jpg)

9 House Martel

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/MARTEL S_Martell oranje en rood.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=MARTEL S_Martell oranje en rood.jpg)

Units based on :

10 House Yronwood (vasal to house martel)

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/MARTEL_V S_Yronwood geel en bruin.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=MARTEL_V S_Yronwood geel en bruin.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Martel Yronwood UNITS_TURKS_groen en geel.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Martel Yronwood UNITS_TURKS_groen en geel.jpg)


11 House Tully

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Tully_S_Tully blauw en rood.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Tully_S_Tully blauw en rood.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/TULLY UNITS_SCOTLAND_Donker_blauw en wit.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=TULLY UNITS_SCOTLAND_Donker_blauw en wit.jpg)

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Tully Frey UNITS_RUSSIA donker blauw en rood.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Tully Frey UNITS_RUSSIA donker blauw en rood.jpg)

12 House Frey (vassal to house Tully)

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Tully S_Frey wit en blauw.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Tully S_Frey wit en blauw.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Tully Frey UNITS_RUSSIA donker blauw en rood.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Tully Frey UNITS_RUSSIA donker blauw en rood.jpg)

13 House Tyrell

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Tyrell_S_Tyrell groen en geel.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Tyrell_S_Tyrell groen en geel.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Tyrell_UNITS_SPAIN_GEEL EN rood.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Tyrell_UNITS_SPAIN_GEEL EN rood.jpg)

14 House Florent (vassal to house Tyrell)

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Tyrell S_Florent blauw en rood.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Tyrell S_Florent blauw en rood.jpg)

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/TYRELL Florent UNITS FRANCE blauw wit.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=TYRELL Florent UNITS FRANCE blauw wit.jpg)

15 House Redwyne (vassal to house Tyrell)


Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Tyrell_Redwyne UNITS FRANCE blauw wit.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Tyrell_Redwyne UNITS FRANCE blauw wit.jpg)


16 Night Watch (np)

Units based on :

17 Wildlings

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/WILDLINGS_UNITS_AZTECS.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=WILDLINGS_UNITS_AZTECS.jpg)

18 rebel

Units based on :

19 House Barattheon Stanis dragonstone

Units based on :

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Baratheon UNITS_PAPALSTATES wit en bruin.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Baratheon UNITS_PAPALSTATES wit en bruin.jpg)

later fase

20 House Targaryen

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Targaryen_S_Targaryen zwart en rood.22d.th.jpg (http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Targaryen_S_Targaryen zwart en rood.22d.jpg)

Units based on :

21 Others
Units to be created

[a_b_danner]

Russia may work better for house Stark - they are a little backwards in armor compared to the southerners. The Russians also have that nice axe unit which would be the northern woodsmen.

Hungarians are another choice, or they could be the Tully's - with the Hussars being the Tully light cavalry, WIIRC, were considered somewhat elite compared to other light cavalry.

Poland also has a somewhat unusual flair and could work for the north.

Most of the Southern factions are identical, and can use all of the continental european factions; HRE, France, England, Spain, Portugal, Milan, Venice.

Egypt is near perfect for the Martels. The Moors could be a vassel kingdom.

A note on gameplay. I think turns should be a bit longer, say 1 month. Also, the game should be able to be played out longer. The way MTW2 is designed to be played. I just played the Crusader mod for RTW, which was set up for 1wk turns, with not a lot of emphases for building up an empire, and i found it a rather short experience. While this is certainly an option, it wouldn't be that hard to have a 'long' version as well.

Oh, and an eastern invasion of 'mongols' would also be kinda fun. Of course, that isn't in the Story as of yet, but might be in a year or two

[TurnLeft]

Sounds like someone wants to lead this :yes:

Can you get subsection at any of the major TW boards with a developer section?

[k995]

Russia may work better for house Stark - they are a little backwards in armor compared to the southerners. The Russians also have that nice axe unit which would be the northern woodsmen.

Hungarians are another choice, or they could be the Tully's - with the Hussars being the Tully light cavalry, WIIRC, were considered somewhat elite compared to other light cavalry.

Poland also has a somewhat unusual flair and could work for the north.

Most of the Southern factions are identical, and can use all of the continental european factions; HRE, France, England, Spain, Portugal, Milan, Venice.

Egypt is near perfect for the Martels. The Moors could be a vassel kingdom.

I tried to match the colours so there would be less work in skinning, but the units you described could be lifted and added to the ones with the correct colours for the factions.

I am going to look trough the books and look for some descriptions of units

.


A note on gameplay. I think turns should be a bit longer, say 1 month. Also, the game should be able to be played out longer. The way MTW2 is designed to be played. I just played the Crusader mod for RTW, which was set up for 1wk turns, with not a lot of emphases for building up an empire, and i found it a rather short experience. While this is certainly an option, it wouldn't be that hard to have a 'long' version as well.

Well it would be bigger in scope then Crusader, as I understand it thats 2 factions and not that much citys, heavily scripted . I would like more a general campaign style of M2TW now but then more realistic and in the Asoiaf universe .

1 month a turn would remove lots of realism and would sync the game directly out of contact with the books (the war lasts several years so 30 40 turns and you would be beyond the books and not all that much would have happened)

I hope to create something in wich you have to carefully think what to attack, in M2TW and most mods you just attack, loose an army, not that big a deal most cases you could just recover . You also spend too much time building up your empire and taking over rebel provinces . the AI is at a disadvanbtage here so human player begin with an added bonus. I hope to level the playing field by given everybody about the same starting point with different factions and different strenghts, the Lannisters for example will be richer and more powerfull then most factions, the tully's poorer ...




Oh, and an eastern invasion of 'mongols' would also be kinda fun. Of course, that isn't in the Story as of yet, but might be in a year or two
Well the wildlings would count as invasion those are in the books .

[k995]

Sounds like someone wants to lead this :yes:

Can you get subsection at any of the major TW boards with a developer section?

did that a couple days ago.

[a_b_danner]

Check out some of the threads on Diplomacy. It looks like we have a lot more options in MTW2 than in RTW. These could work out especially well for Banner factions, making them very unlikely to Rebel, or unlikely for a period of turns and then Very likely. Or even more importently, it would allow the player to play as a Bannerman, and make it very unlikely to get attacked by the Major faction (until you're ready to stab them in the back, of course).

Exampls;

if we're at war && he borders all our groups && his frontline strength is more than thrice as large as ours && his free strength is more than four times as large as ours >>> propose become protectorate


if we're at war && his frontline strength is less than ours && his free strength is greater than ours, then >>> conduct raids

if we're not at war && we are not his weakest neighbour && we are allied to him,then >>> minimal

if we have any settlements, and we are at the very start of the game, and target is not human (cannot trust humans) >>> minimal defense

if we're not at war && we're not at war with anyone else && we outproduce him && he is most desireable, then >>> plan future invasion

SPECIAL CASE EXISTS HERE IN CODE FOR FORCING ATTACK ON HUMAN IF AT PEACE WITH EVERYONE FOR TOO LONG (hard = 4 turns, normal = 10 turns, easy = 20 turns)

Not interested in factions that are not our neighbour, use defaults, may be overridden by forced/naval attacks

If we are allied and have only been allied for a short duration, no invasion set up, cannot force invade

From this threa;

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71792

[Eef]

This is a great idea for a mod -- the world of ASoIaF would fit in perfectly with M2TW. I have no experience modding, but I'm currently rereading the series for the third time, so I'd be happy to help if you need any aid on the conceptual side of things. I'd also be willing to find quotes from the series for loading screens, or perhaps write up a blurb for the screen where you choose your faction.

[k995]

This is a great idea for a mod -- the world of ASoIaF would fit in perfectly with M2TW. I have no experience modding, but I'm currently rereading the series for the third time, so I'd be happy to help if you need any aid on the conceptual side of things. I'd also be willing to find quotes from the series for loading screens, or perhaps write up a blurb for the screen where you choose your faction.

Well I was currently looking up the lannister and starks soldiers descriptions in the books. If you could find some and post them of the other factions(tully,Barattheon , martel,...) that would be welcome.

[The Wizard]

Good idea, though perhaps "Baratheon at King's Landing" is perhaps better incorporated into "Lannister" seeing as all Baratheon bannermen seem to either be part of the Highgarden host or with Stannis... although I admit it was unclear as to what happened to them following Renly's death.

And might I suggest we keep the East out of this? The military conflicts on either continent are entirely seperate, and the only way to do justice to either is to create an entirely seperate scenario/map for each of them.

Then there's the question: when does the mod start? Before Ned's death? After? Probably, but when after? The sides shift and change so quickly at times that one needs to be careful with what moment one takes as starting point.

P.S. You could also ask www.westeros.org if you could use their coats-of-arms, which are supported by GRRM as being more accurate than those of the publisher (especially House Arryn's).

[a_b_danner]

And might I suggest we keep the East out of this? The military conflicts on either continent are entirely seperate, and the only way to do justice to either is to create an entirely seperate scenario/map for each of them.

Then there's the question: when does the mod start? Before Ned's death? After? Probably, but when after? The sides shift and change so quickly at times that one needs to be careful with what moment one takes as starting point.


Keep the east out to start with. It could be added later as an expansion, as time allows.

In the RTW mod for westeros, there was a lot of discussion about the mod starting point (at least in the early stages, when I was able to participate). The general consensus was to start the day of the kings death. There was ongoing debate about whether to start factions at war with each other, or just make them dislike each other enough they will go to war soon.

One idea was to put Ned Stark as a lone unit adjacent to kings landing, or with a unit of Mounted and armored Sergeants - as if he were trying to make a run for it prior to being imprisoned. He would have to fight and sneak his way home.

[Eef]

I agree that the East should stay out of it, at least at first. Westeros will be enough work by itself, I'm sure, and we also just don't know that much about the eastern continent, save for the small part Dany's been across.

I did a little searching on the Martell's military (westeros.org is a great site for finding this sort of stuff). Due to its Rhoynar influence, Dorne is culturally very different from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. Their favored weapon is the spear, and they also make extensive use of javelins, both from horseback and on foot. Dorne is the only region in Westeros that makes extensive use of missile cavalry, harassing foes with their recurved bows. Dornish steeds are famed for their speed and stamina.

Dornishmen rarely wear heavy armor, preferring shirts of mail or leather. Noblemen wear shirts of interlapping copper disks. Dornish shields are round and polished.

The Martells would have a small navy, capable of defending itself but not nearly as large or powerful as some of the other houses.

So, to summarize in game terms:

Good light cavalry, missile cavalry, and spearmen. They'd have some knights, but they would be weak in comparison to most of the other factions. Lacking heavy infantry and strong heavy cavalry. Bonuses for fighting in desert, good stamina.

[Westeez]

Oh god, please tell me this is still alive.

[5000]

i could prolly help out with the map, i still have all the files i did from a long long time ago, the tga files should still work the only thing that would need to be changed would be all the name references to provinces and such in about 4 or 5 different text files. i'll have some time the week after christmas, shouldnt take me more than a day or two, i'll post everything here, once i'm done, and you may do with it as you wish.

the map i have is only westeros, the eastern continent wouldnt be too hard to add and i wouldnt mind adding on for you guys in the future, i did some experimenting with rome and it was able to handle a fairly large map size, big enough for at least the western edge of the eastern continent. so i'd say its possible.
but my advice would be to start small, and see how it goes

[5000]

actually i'm going to hold off on the map, until you guys decide what factions to include, and which factions will replace the ones in game.

heres your list of factions:


playable
england
france
hre
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary
end
nonplayable
papal_states
aztecs
mongols
timurids
slave

you gotta keep all the names the same, like poland will still say poland in all the text files but they will now reference your modified files that have say stark text, images and units. i think you may have been able to make a faction from scratch, not sure tho. if it was possible we didnt cause it woulda been waaay too much work. just tell me which ASOIAF factions you want to replace each of the above factions.

something to consider when changing out factions: in rome they had cultural groupings, i think there were 6 cultures, which affected building types and units types, that were allowed to be built. you might wanna look into that and see what faction belongs to which culture and make your faction changes accordingly. ie if you choose to have stark and umber you would want them in the same cultural/religious grouping as they would have similar units and buildings.

culture might have been replaced by religion, but i have no idea


shoot me an email if and when you get that figured out, or if you have any questions, i'm currently looking for all our old discussions from our forums, i had it backed up and i'm sure i have it, just having a bit of trouble finding it. it has tons of discussions on what to include what not to include and why. and lots of arguments, hehehehehe.


but consider the map taken care, i'd be more than happy it to do it, that is of course if you would like help on it

best of luck
-5000
westerostw@gmail.com

[5000]

i did find some text files of units and unit descriptions, that we were working on, if you want those

[a_b_danner]

Hey 5000, good to see you again (and your map). Hopefully someone with a bit of time on there hands can take a whack at this. If shouldn't be nearly as much work with the current MTW2, since most factions can be plugged in quite neatly to get a first version out. Once that is done, more work can be done on getting custom skins, banners, ancillaries, etc.

[Westeez]

As for the House of Stark, in the books they seem to resemble a 'Danish' type army the best. Lots of shock of infantry, but not as heavily armoured. Good fast shock calvary with high attack, but a lower charge and defense due to a lack of lances and plate. I also recall them being good archers and frequent use of Longbows.

[Eltharon]

Wouldn't the Ironborn be the Danes of Westeros? I'll have to check it, but even so, I guess the Starks would have some viking-esque units.

By the way, I can help out in any way except graphics/mapping, (I could probably do that with some practice, I've got Lightwave 9 on one of my PCs, if thats compatable) and i'm pretty free until January.

[Eltharon]

After fiddling around in my Westeros books, here's some information about troop strength, fleet sizes and army composition. This is taken from the Game of Thrones RPG and sort of approved by GRRM

1) Kings Landing has a permanent city watch of about 2000 Gold Cloaks. I suppose they'd be town or spear militia. From the surrounding lesser houses, it can summon about 10-15,000 men and has 50 ships in the royal fleet.
2) Dragonstone can summon about 3000 men and 400 heavy cavalry, but 160 ships, 80 of which are 100+ oars.
3)The North can summon almost 45,000 men, but summoning more then 20,000 will mean dire consequences in the winter. (Note: Remember that the story starts in the summer, and then will continue all through the years of winter. We'll have to mod that). Their army composition is about 4 footmen to one horseman. They have no fleet
4) The Greyjoys can summon 20,000 swords and have a fleet of more then 500 ships, but many are smaller longships that can't stand up to a true ship of the line. They have no real cavalry to speak of.
5) The Riverlands can summon about 45,000 men, but the divisions among the lesser houses lead to problems--the Freys like to sit and wai, and they hold 4000 men. They have a small river fleet and a ration of foot to horse of about 3 to 1
6) The Vale has comparable might to the Riverlands, minus the divisons among the lesser houses. They have a small navy in Gulltown. Foot to horse is 3-1
7)The Westerlands can call on 50,000 swords, including green boys and castle garrisons. They have an foot to horse ratio of 2-1. Its noted here that Lannister Pikemen are some of the best foot levy in Westeros. They have perhaps 60 ships.
8)The Reach (Tyrell) can call on 80,000 men with a foot/horse ratio of 2 or 3 to 1. They float 200 ships, all dipping more then 100 oars.
9) The Stormlands have strong castles, but only call on 30,000 men, with a foot/horse ratio of 4-1 or worse. However, their men are mainly veteran troops.
10) Dorne: 50,000 men. Good foot/horse ratio, but light spearmen and cavalry. They have a small navy (maybe 20 ships)


Hope some of this helps.

[iwantmyaccountdeleted]

Errr. Shouldn't we lobby to get our own subforum?

[Liu]

Subforum seems to make sense.

[Marcus Brutus]

Hi. I'm Marcus Brutus, from TWC, SCC, etc. I'm now the head of this mod, and
I will try to update this thread as much as possible as to our achievements. I'll make a following post with links to our more updated threads.

Thanks for your interest!
~Marcus & Westeros Team

[Marcus Brutus]

Now that I got my first post in, I can post links. So, here we are:
TWC thread (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=68676)
The first five pages or so is just bickering and whatnot, after that it becomes contructive. I've seen all these arguments before, with the Rome mod, so I was a tad harsh in quashing them. This thread is our main thread and will be the most up to date.

Westeros.org thread (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=15042)
This thread is our research thread, covering everything from cultures to faction selections. This has all be decided by now, but we're about to start unit discussion. Most of these posts wont make it to TWC, only the definitive ones after things have been decided will be pasted over.

Cheers!

[Jinnigan]

I would like to contribute to this. Is there an official forum or official thread or anything of that nature that I can look at?

[Marcus Brutus]

No, just those two threads. What area would you like to contribute in? Unless you have sufficient coding or skinning abilities, it's unlikely we'll take on new team members. However input and research is always welcome.

[Feldar]

Hey you.. where I get hold of this mod? I love Martin's series of novels - A Song of Ice and Fire and I would like to play it too. :yes: