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frogbeastegg
11-13-2006, 21:44
Milan needs to be unlocked before you can play as them. To do this you can either complete a campaign (on any difficutly, long or short setting) with one of the five starting factions, or you can edit the preferences file. To do this open your Sega/M2TW folder/data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign, find the file called "descr_strat" and open it with wordpad. Now find the section which says
campaign imperial_campaign
playable
england
france
hre
spain
venice
end
unlockable
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary
end
nonplayable
papal_states
aztecs
mongols
timurids
slave
end

Change it so it reads

campaign imperial_campaign
playable
england
france
hre
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary
end
nonplayable
papal_states
aztecs
mongols
timurids
slave
end

Debe2233
11-18-2006, 01:54
Milan

Milan is a bit of a strange faction it doesn’t really put forward any major unique units and the units they have tend to be a bit lacking in power, however they do have the best crossbow men in the game, and the crossbow bolts make a sexy noise that makes me tingle down below so they’ve become one of my favourite factions.

Castles?!... who needs Castles….

Milan can live without creating castles… I know, I know sounds strange but until the top end of the castle tech tree they don’t get anything that useful… and their Militia like the other Italian factions are excellent, ok men at arms and feudal knights are useful for forming a backbone but I find that Italian Spear Militia tend to do just as well and they’re cheaper and easier to come by.

I tend to find my armies are composed of three major elements.

4-5 units of spearmen
4-5 units of Genoese Crossbow Militia
1-2 units of militia cavalry

Of course feudal knights on foot are better than spearmen and Genoese Crossbow men are better than their militia counterpart and feudal knights are better than militia cavalry. Problem is until you upgrade to a fortress feudal knights are hard to come by and Genoese crossbow men are top end. Just use the militia and throw more elite units in as required and as they become available.

Crossbow men pepper the enemy while they come towards you, when they charge your spearmen flank them with your cav and if your desperate throw your crossbow men into the fight (Genoese crossbowmen are more than capable in a fight) remember your crossbow men will likely have a longer range than their missile men (unless they’re also crossbow armed troops) but you’ll have more of them, make the enemy come to you!.

Campaign

Milan starts with two cities Milan and Genoa both in north Italy, within a turns march there are three other cities, Venice owned by Venice strangely enough, Bologna owned by the HRE and Florence which is rebel.

Milans main difficulty is that it starts in close proximity to possible enemies and theres not alot of room to expand.

Your main problem is going to be Venice when you start off it’s a matter of “when” not “if” they will attack and Venice is a days march away from Milan you wont have much warning other than a large Venice army knocking at your front door.

Ideally what you want to do first is either take Florence or if your feeling a tad more brave go straight for Venice! Florence makes a good castle as its in the centre of the northern Italy cities so you can use it to supply the surrounding cities with higher quality troops, while Venice can stay as a city and gives you access to east Italian waters and an excellent cash producing city.

Personally… leave Bologna the main reasons being you want to keep the HRE friendly for as long as possible and it’s the one way Sicily can attack, give it 10 turns and Sicily and HRE will be at war and Sicily will be trying to take Bologna, a pre-emptive on Bologna will put you at war with the HRE then Sicily will attack you then Venice will now doubt join in the fun. So leave it for now.

Bern is another possibility for expansion but again… don’t, it’s a castle north of Milan and taking it seems to put you at odds with the HRE and France.

A better route for expansion is to head by sea to the island forts of Ajaccio and Cagliar, these are easy to take and if you change them both to cities and build them up they can become real cash producers.

Once you’ve taken Venice (either as a pre-emptive or as retribution) and Sicily has taken Bologna go to war with Sicily as their army will have taken a beating to take the city, so take advantage and an ill defended Bologna and then push on and take control of Italy. When Venice loses Venice they tend to not bother you so much.

Once you’ve gained control of the whole of Italy (with the exception of Rome… unless your feeling a tad peeved with the pope of course) you will have some of the richest cities in the world and the ability to strike anywhere. And as if you needed another bonus you can beat anyone to a crusade as you can be in the holy lands in 4-3 turns from the south coast of Italy by boat, and dont forget the sexy crossbow bolt noises...

cassiusdio
11-28-2006, 23:54
Milan is an unusual faction in that you don't need castles to produce powerful combat units. It shares this feature in common with nearby Venice.


The forces

Italian Militia, and Italian Spear militia are perhaps the best militia units availiable to any faction, and give you a powerful edge in the early game. Also in your favour is the fact that they are militia and a certain number can be supported in cities for free, and the maintainance costs are generally low. This means that while your rivals might struggle to keep their feudal levies in the field, you can easily support a large military. Combine this with the fact that most of your settlements can be cities, and you will have a serious economic edge over your rivals.

Milan is also unusual in that their militia cavalry is roughly the equal of mailed knights, with the edge obviously going to the Knights, but again, as militia, their upkeep is low, and cities can support some for free.
The trump card in my opinion is the Genoese Crossbow militia. boasting excellent defence and a potent longranged missile attack, they can also hold their own in a melee

Many of the better late game troops are also produced in cities, the famiglia Ducale being the pinacle of Milanese heavy cavalry but easier to produce are the broken swords and their dismounted counterparts. they are only slightly inferior to feudal knights and their dismounted counterparts.

Gunpowder troops can also be trained in cities, so despite the fact that the feudal soldiers might be slightly superior, there is no real need to build castles at all, cities will provide you with all the wealth and soldiers that you need.

Starting Position

Milan is surrounded by potentially powerful enemies from the start of the game, with only limited room for expansion. you will innevitable find yourself at war with one or more of your neighbours sooner rather than later.
The factions 2 cities are situated in one of the wealthiest areas, however, so rather than looking upon the relatively weak starting position as a problem, you should look at it as an opportunity

Opening moves

The city of florence is within easy striking distance and should be claimed from as early as possible, then you should look at the castles of Ajacio and Cagliari on the islands to the south of Genoa. I swiftly changed these to towns for the extra revenue, and it payed off in the long run. these 5 cities will provide you with a solid foundation from which to build your empire.

Next Steps

The two logical next steps are to eliminate the Sicilians and the Venetians. the Sicilians have a very advantageous strategic position, while the venetians are very wealthy, Venice itself is a prize worth fighting a war over.
these moves might attract the ire of the HRE but in the early game they are not a tremendous threat, its the other italians that you have to worry about.

Once sicily and venice are eliminated (you only really need to take Venice to limit the venetians power.

With Italy under your control, and hopefully having taken steps to appease the pope the direction you strike next is entirely up to you. Sicily will provide a good stepping stone into africa, whileif you advance into the balkans and attempt to destroy the venetians you will come into contact with more potential enemies. Innevitably you will want to fight against the Byzantines and the former venetian holdings will provide a good stepping stone.

Equally viable are seizing the french coastal towns and attempting to dominate the western mediterranean, but, as i have already said, once italy is yours, you can go anywhere you want, since you will literally occupy the center of the map

cassiusdio
11-29-2006, 23:32
Naval power

The kingdom of milan is both cursed and blessed by the large number of coastal settlements. Blessed in that as cities they will generate a huge amount of revinue, cursed in that as coastal cities they are vulnerable to sieges, and naval blokades will drastically hurt your income. As an example in my current game (M/M) the city of genoa nets me a fairly hefty 3800 gold per turn, this drops to 1900-2000 should i be unfortunate enough to suffer a blokade. obviously then, maintaining a fleet to defend your coastal ports is essential.

The starting milanese ships are the galley and war galley. while not outstanding combat ships individually, it is possible to swiftly build up a good sized force to defend your assets. in the later game, when gunpowder becomes availiable you gain access to more potent ships.

Naval Strategy

Wars can be a costly enterprise, the need to maintain a large military to fight the wars, and the loss of revinue through broken trade pacts, sieges and blokades can really hurt you, but it can also hurt your enemies. A swift naval blokade can bring your enemies to the negociating table to offer favourable terms for a ceasefire, while possessing a strong navy can prevent an enemy doing the same to you. clearly a navy is a vital tool in your political arsenal.

Navies also present you with greater tactical flexibility for your armies. a vital land route might be blocked by an enemy force, but it is faster to move armies by sea, and you avoid the possibility of ambushes and costly bridge battles. more importantly, the increased speed with which sea borne forces can be moved means that while your enemy might be rushing his armies to the front, you can slip in behind and ravage his cities, with little risk of any intervention by a large army that has moved towards your cities.

Balancing Army and Navy

Navies don't come without a cost, training and maintenance is expensive, but milan is blessed with both a potentially very strong economy, and strong militia troops. they are both cheap to maintain, and you can maintain multiple units for free. as far as city defence goes your free units will normally be sufficient to thwart all but the most determined of assaults. even considering this, however, it is very hard to maintain more than 2-3 full armies, and a strong navy. but using the navy to rapidly redeploy forces can go a long way towards giving you a powerful military edge

War versus Sicily, an example

War with sicily is simply a matter of when, not if a campaign will begin, and you can swiftly deal with them, swiftly as in 5-6 turns...

The first step is to make sure you have an edequate network of agents to keep track of enemy movements, diplomats and priests will suffice, but spy's are certainly preferable.

The second step is to make sure you have an army with several siege engines and a large amount of infantry, militia and spear militia will do, since you won't actually be fighting any pitched battles.

when you have an army ready to go blokade either naples or palermo to start hostilities, a large 'donation' to the papacy will ensure he does not interfere in this war.
lacking any Navy itself (you should ruthlessly destroy enemy ships) Sicily will move its army by land, a 3-4 turn march from naples, much longer from Palermo. when their forces are sufficiently distant, land your army at palermo, and swiftly sieze it. Palermo is a much better target since, as a well developed castle, it is much easier to defend from any counter attacks. you should storm the small garrison immediately, and, leaving only damaged units necesary to prevent it revolting, load your army back on to the boats. the next target is Naples, at most 2 turns sailing.

It is quite possible that sicily has by this time reached bologna, and if it is your possession laid siege to it, don't be concerned, because Naples is considerably easier to take than Palermo. land your troops, and storm the city immediately. wth the loss of the city, any forces the sicilians have in the field will revert to being rebels, and can be dealt with at your leasure.

Obviously this is an idealised campaign, but i have tried it 3 times, each time resulting in success. It should not be too hard to use similar tactics against other nations, a naval campaign against the Moors for example, or the french mediterranean holdings. in essence, don't neglect your navy

Kekvit Irae
11-30-2006, 01:48
I have been playing Milan recently, and I absolutely love it.

Militia Units or Combat Units?
While Debe2233 puts up a compelling argument against building castles, the use of castles should not be underestimated, especially with the Milanese. Genoa and Milan both start out as Cities. Keep them that way. You'll need one (preferably Genoa) for a Merchant's Guild and one (again, preferably Milan) for the Theologians Guild. Start building your town guard buildings until you get the Genoese Crossbow Militia (first in Milan due to the slow growth of Genoa). These militia units are the most powerful militia units you'll find in the Catholic kingdom. 12 missile attack, and 14 defense. AND they can be used as free upkeep

When you have a sizable army, seize Bern (Switzerland's castle). Occupy and keep Bern a castle so you can upgrade to fortress level and beyond sooner. With Bern snuggly in your hands, you can start building one of the ultimate early foot troops: Genoese Crossbowmen. These powerhouses have 14 missile attack (as opposed to 12) and 16 defense (versus the 14 of militia), making them the most powerful non-gunpowder missile foot troops in the game. Their melee attack has also been upgraded so they can defend castle walls with more ease. Use these units in your eventual conquer of the world.

However, because of the ability of Free Upkeep you get from the militia crossbowmen in towns, you will only need two castles in your entire game: Bern and Gaza (Egypt). Bern for the conquest of Europe, and Gaza for the conquest of the Holy Land. Every other castle is optional, and is suggested you convert into a town for more money. Use Bern and Gaza to churn out Genoese Crossbowmen and Feudal (both mounted and dismounted) Knights.

Debe2233
11-30-2006, 11:02
Yup, a couple of castles is all you need, and really only for the crossbow men.

dismounted knights are good but you get dismounted broken lancers at the largest city wall and a heavy cav unit from the largest town hall building (cant remeber their name... something ducal)

Milans major downfall is it takes along time to tech to these units so for a good half the game you'll be stuck with militia.

Monarch
12-02-2006, 13:01
Although some people said "its hard to expand" because your all closed in. Nonsense, you've just gotta be really agressive. Boot Venice outta venice, take, florence, taker bolougna.

Then I quickly took the two Islands for a bit of cash (convert to cities). As another guy said though, sicily will attack now. So I blitz them, they only have two cities so I've destroyed them already.

A note on priests, its really easy to get cardinals with milan, with Byzantine (non catholic) so close a quick boat of 3 or 4 priests will get you some cardinals in no time.

I now plan to take back venice, last turn HRE siezed it (only had a small garrison) and then expand north into the HRE. Possibly getting an alliance with Denamark, so we get the HRE surrounded.

Oh, and mercenery spearmen early game are very useful. Since you'll be quite rich you can afford them.

z2ei
12-03-2006, 13:53
I've been playing Milan for about sixty turns or so, and they're my favorite Italian faction yet. (M/M)

I combined my initial fleet, then sent them with a family member and a handful of units straight for Algiers, taking on the poorly-garrisoned Moor castle. At the same time, my heir, Count Bernardo, built an army and went from Genoa to Florence, snatching it before anyone else could. I sent him back to Genoa to retrain, meeting up with six more Italian Militia from both Milan and Genoa.

I'd taken Algiers by this point, getting it before a larger Moor army could arrive. built it up a bit, just holding position. Bernardo's army went from Genoa down through both islands, and taking Tunis. I'd left parts of my army behind to garrison the new Milanese towns.

To make a long story short, I wound up taking the Moors out of North Africa, and blocking that landbridge with a fleet. I conquered all of it except for one town on the coast, which I can't seem to get to by land or sea. Same with a couple of the resources around Timbuktu..

I'm at war with the French, who didn't do much of anything. Venice just attacked me about five turns ago, but they didn't stand much chance against my superior army, and general. Now, my flag flies over their former capital.

However..Duke Bernardo the Brave (Command 8, Dread 6) just died, and his heir isn't so great, so I may be in a bit of trouble..

Monarch
12-03-2006, 20:13
I'm also about 60-70 turns in, however as I left the Moors alone I've conentrated on the Italian peninsula. I hold all of it now, including Rome. I took Rome, killed the pope and because I had the most cardinals I voted in my own pope and was let back into the holy club :2thumbsup:

I also have taken Innbruck and Nurembourg from the HRE with Bern under siege.

I also successfully requested a crusade to Jerusalem. I took Jerusalem with ease (only 1 general bodyguard unit was garrisoned). I sacked it, knocked down all the buildings, then moved my army out. Making me very rich. I then took Acre from the Venetians who had beaten me there on a previous Crusade, sacked it, removed all buildings, moved army out. I then took my army down to Cairo and did the same. Alexandria is now also under siege and the same process will be inflicted on the non-believers.

I plan to further extend into the HRE :yes:

Nepereta
12-04-2006, 11:18
West Med Crusader

In the past I always played a catholic fighting dread heavy english force. Now I am taking the battle to the Infidels and working with rather than against the pope.

ok in my game I did the following:

Milan became unit production base teching up for x-bows
Venice would be trade + artillery + boat production.

Combined all nobles into 1 army with as many units as I could bring.

Conquered florence then the two islands. Got trade rights, maps from everyone I could and allaince with pope. Converted all to cities.

Then I crusaded to Tunis. Took tunis and enjoyed the massive chiv bonuses my men got. ( In retrospect should of brought my priest with the army.) Got money from the pope and the council of nobles.

Took bern and placed on general in there for pop boost ( massive chiv rocks) this is going to be genoese x-bow prod centre for later.

Placed my faction leader in the capital the chiv bonuses meant a mean 9% growth rate.

Build up my armies accepting a chapter house in milan and trade guild in venice.

Germans sieged bern for 1 turn slightly delaying an attack I had planned for west med (Moors + 2 reb provinces) I had words with the pope and in 1 turn the HRE was asking for ceasefire which I accepted + a nice tribute.

Finally my west med attack is underway, I have 3 new generals which I am going to be using for chiv bonuses. Taken a east coast spanish rebel settlement ( not the one with El Cid the other one forgot its name).

Repeatedly been begging the pope for a crusade in corduba but he keeps refusing. So I build a diplomat in florence and send him with sweetners.

Eventually pope relented and gave his permission I for one am not going to let the old boy down. Sent in the troops panicked a little when I saw the portuguese sieging corduba. Fortunately by the time I got there the moors had pyrhiccally (sp?) beat them off leaving only 10 men defending corduba.

Took corduba and the next generation of milans generals now have obscene chivalry. I even started releasing prisioners on occasion since the chiv bonus is too sexy.

Finshed off the rest of the rebels + moors in south east spain.

Notes on fighting:

I use:

Geneose x-bows militia (currrently ) although I dream of getting the superior non milita version in bern soon.
Italian spear militia. ( these are great at holding a street or line+ incredibly expendable)
Artillery ( I try to build all kinds quickly)
cavalry I use Templars( thank you crusades!) and Generals

Notes on pope:

keep a diplomat close ( for sweetners)
keep lots of priests converting muslims ( a range of bonuses appear)

Future problems:

When fights consist of full stacks how will I deal with a very large mass of enemy heavy infantry in a city? Currently in most battles I go for missle superiority and cav superiority the templar are as good as general units but obviously with more men.

cassiusdio
12-04-2006, 13:32
When fights consist of full stacks how will I deal with a very large mass of enemy heavy infantry in a city? Currently in most battles I go for missle superiority and cav superiority the templar are as good as general units but obviously with more men.

With the majority of your settlements being cities you are, for the most part, forced to use militia in your armies, and, with their lower maintenance you can usually have numerical superiority. In a city fight any numerical superiority you have will be less of an advantage. Heavy infantry will eat even experienced militia spearmen alive, and you do have to wait a long tim for your tech tree to reach Dismounted Broken lances.

This is one of the reasons you should consider a fairly early campaign against Sicily. Palermo is a very advanced castle in the early game, and should provide you with any heavy infantry you should need. since you have a templar guild you can concentrate on their production, and that of genoese crossbows, who are superior to their militia crossbowmen (though not 'that' superior)
With this heavy infantry you can contemplate storming cities without horrendous casualties (they will still be heavy) but with a strong economy you should be able to make them good in just a few turns.

But Milans greatest strength is the ability to maintain large but fairly cheap armies in the field, sieges are one of the places where you are at a disadvantage compared to say, the HRE, england or france

Regards

Nepereta
12-04-2006, 18:23
I suppose one way around the militia problem is perhaps overwhelming numbers since I should be able to retreat spent militia off the map and replace with reinforcements.

I have also been using point blank firing tactics with the x-bows which seem to work well what I have is simply this.

XXX
SSS

X= x-bows
S= spears

I use mulitple groups like this coming at the enemy from different angles. At point blank range the x-bows anhilate. if the enemy get real close I move the x-bows behind the spears.

Alatien
12-05-2006, 16:29
Siege problem for Milan:

As some have already mentioned, Milan has problems with heavy infantry attacking cities. Yesterday I had a battle where HRE invaded my Bern, here are the forces:

HRE (attacker):
- 10 (?) Feudal Foot Knights units
- 2 Pavise Crossbowmen
- 3 Trebuchets
- Family member general

Milan (my besieged defender):
- 1 Broken Lances unit
- 4 Genoese Crossbow Militia units
- 4 Italian Spear Militias
- Family member general
- 4 Militia Cavalry units

I have won the battle with rather small casualties.
1. Instead of waiting for enemy to attack, I have attacked first.

2. I have left my infantry on walls and behind the gate, and took my cavalry through the side gate. I concentrated all my 5 cavalry units on one flank.

3. Meanwhile I have distracted enemy by moving 1 GCM unit in front of the gate (so they could fire at enemy who kept out of range, firing Trebuchets). This got their attention enough to move few units, and in effect some of them came into range of GCM on walls.

4. I have charged their general, 2 heavy inf. units and some artillery with my cavalry. This caused massive damage, sice a succesful charge on non spear infantry is deadly.

5. Enemy units that tried to intercept my GCM started to pull back to reinforce their fighting flank, so i pushed my infantry through the front gate, run, and charged the enemy foot knights.

After that it was only mopping up. Cavalry took most damage. I had to withdraw them and recharge couple times but in the end their general died, couple enemy units were wiped out, and the rest of army routed and was captured.

I think my cav was down to 5-10 men per unit, but they did an awesome job.

Conclusion:
When facing heavy infantry, charge them with cavalry. Probably wont work vs Halabards or Billmen thou.

Nepereta
12-05-2006, 17:17
Milan Breach Strategy

Defeated the HRE( they where x-commed) army soundly in bologna yesterday despite them having a rather large stack in the city. The battle was fought by 5 genoa x-bow militia 5 it spears and 6 heavy cav + 2 heavy artillery.

Phase 1 : knock out lots of towers

Phase 2: place many holes in walls especially to knock out standing units. NB if you hole a section of wall ( between two towers) twice all units between the holes die.

Phase 3: Approached my geneo x-bows spears and cav in 5 formations that look like this

XXX
SSS
CCC

Each x-bow sits in front of breach and opens fire point blank at enemy.

If enemy surges out of the walls the spears and cav deal with it.

the X bows manage to cause terrific casualities for low arrow cost at point blank and then the cav and spears clean up.

This strat may not work after passive AI changes however an enemy surge could be dealt with by the spears and superior cav.

Aracnid
12-06-2006, 23:05
I was messing around and having played England with all castles I decided to have a joke attempt at world domination with Milan with only cities, and as has been said above there militia are really good. By being really very aggresive and wipin gout the French royal family by turn 20, (two assasinations and one battle near Genoa) I was really big really quick, with most of Italy (bar Rome) and France (Bar Cean, Rennes and Paris) taking the Iberian penninsular was easy after that I could swarm people with my militia. This was on M/M but for me the biggest advantage isn't the militia but your position, I really like assasins and because diplomats etc. tend to gather in Northern Italy it is really easy to get near full assasins quite quickly, this means you can have 4 top level assasins by turn 25 and with them taking out factions the easy way is well easy.

Slaists
12-07-2006, 22:15
IMHO, Milan is a faction for someone who likes to play a diplomatic game on VH with minimal combat. It is a cash-cow faction. When trying to play it, I tried to play my usual "laid-back", "build-up", "do not attack unless attacked" style and ended up with loads of cash very soon.

Even on the VH campaign setting I managed to keep my relations with almost all neighbors as "good" and "perfect" and still had cash to spare. I ended up buying provinces from my allies just to keep my generals from developing bad traits due to over-bloated treasury... In turn 60 I gave up, for it started to feel boring.

As to cash: since Milan can play with no castles (I do realize, their better troops still come from castles), they can have their merchant numbers maximized. I would suggest taking over (using merchants) the resources by Constantinopole + Amber iin the North + Spices in the Middle East.

Spark
12-18-2006, 01:47
I found that Milan is a very strong faction, both due to their location and their military. In terms of location, due to the fact that AI will practically never launch amphibious assaults, you've pretty much got all of italy and the surrounding islands sealed up, with northern italy as the only chokepoint which you need to guard. Combined with the fact that the italian cities are very rich, you've got an excellent base on which to start your empire, and it's largely untouchable.

Just to resummarize what other people said, capture florence, capture the 2 island castles west of the italian peninsula and convert them to cities (you really don't need sergeants and castle cavalry this early, what you need is gold), capture venice (it'll make you loads of cash, and the venetians won't bother you for a long time), conquer sicily's 2 cities (they've got maybe one army you need to worry about, and after you do an amphibious assault on Palermo, they won't be building another). At that point, HRE usually declares war on you, so take bologna and your italian money making machine is in full swing. From here I usually work my way up through the HRE, taking 2 castles (Innsbruck and Bern) and using those as my castle troop manufacturing bases in Europe. Make sure you butter up the Pope with tribute of 100-200 gold per turn and he'll turn the other way while you conquer europe.

In terms of military, Milan is practically designed for a very strong start. Italian militia are very strong, especially in the early game where you'll be facing very little high-end elite armies. Spear militia, genoese crossbow militia and cavalry militia are more than capable of beating early armies, you just need to get the most use out of your crossbows (i.e. point blank volleys to oncoming infantry before retreating behind your infantry). By the time you start seeing the heavy infantry pop up, you should have at least one castle to match them. On top of that, you've got the pike/crossbow spearwall (more on that later), dismounted broken lances, and the Famiglia Ducale, one of the (if not the) best cavalry in Europe, all available from your cities. Really, you can go without any castles at all, although Genoese crossbowmen are very good to have. You'll be making lots of cash, and you can defend your cities with free-of-upkeep strong militia units.

The pike/crossbow spearwall is a lovely little strategy that maximizes use of your crossbowmen and pikes. I think it's already been mentioned, but what you do is form a long line of pike militia (the dirt cheap units you get from cities, upgrade their armor so they don't bite the dust on contact with the enemy) no deeper than 3 ranks. Right in front of them (practically in their faces), place a long 2-rank-deep line of genoese crossbows and turn off "skirmish". Then just start firing away and let the enemy come to you. As the enemy infantry charge your way, your genoese crossbowmen are firing off lethal volleys at point blank range, which is the most painful type of ranged punishment pre-gunpowder (you can do the same with musketeers+pikes later on). As soon as enemy makes contact, the pikes will break the charge and protect the crossbows from the enemy (genoese crossbowmen are surprisingly tough in melee, they'll cut down any infantry that made it through the pike wall). After the enemy gets stopped and thinned out a bit, disable guard mode on the pikes and they'll start thrusting forward, making a mess out of the enemy infantry. Pushing the pike wall forward also covers the crossbowmen, minimizing their losses. The crossbowmen will soften the impact of the enemy, preventing your pike wall from breaking their formation due to some guy getting through the wall. You start getting into trouble against enemy archers, although the crossbowmen will soak up most of the arrows from the pikemen, and genoese crossbowmen with upgraded partial plate armor are among the best units in the game when it comes to soaking up arrows :D
A cavalry charge to the spearwall is suicide, as expected.

All in all, the pike/crossbow spearwall makes the best use out of your crossbows while covering the weaknesses of your pikemen. Along with dismounted broken lances (very respectable heavy infantry) to watch your flanks and the Famiglia Ducale heavy cavalry of the milanese to flank the opponents pinned by the pikes, you've got a winning strategy against european armies without the need for castles. People are saying that later on you start running into problems, but with such a strong start, you'll have all the money in the world to make up for any deficiencies. The early stages are the most crucial, and Milan has that covered.

kleemann
12-22-2006, 10:24
Actually i use the same strategy as Nepera described above. I play with the hardest settings. And asked pope for crusading to tunis, loaded all my famylo on ship and got crusader bonuses from thare and another time crusading Venice Castle when they were excom-d.

I took Venice on second turn and then i was quite passive. I build up good relations with pope (payd tribute 500 per turn and for 20 turns, relations were perfect)

So i let Venice to attack and blocakde my ports as long as they were excom..

One trick to play sucsessfully with Milan is to capture Venice in second or third turn. In first turn Venice has strong forces in city but in second they march away to conquer. So i take advantage of this. Hired 4 mercenary units, took all units form Milan and quick marched under Venice. Before that i build fort behind my army to protect my back, so that Vennice army could not send releafing forces. In city thare was only 2 units.

Another trick: You siege Venice on bridge, so actually if you have sufficent forces you don't have to defend your back. Let Venice attack you on bridge. Reinforcements from city are peace of cake and make capture of city more easy. Just kill all reinforcements and if you win bridge battle city is yours..

katank
12-22-2006, 17:07
Actually parking the bridge is probably preferable. It's hard to get better terms on which to decimate their big stack and also crushing of the reinforcements can avoid the siege altogether.

Skott
12-30-2006, 03:55
After reading this I'm tempted to try Milan. I like the archer/linemen type strategies best. I find cavalry useless for the most part in this game. If they ever fix the buggy calvary charges (patch v1.1 didnt fix it)then they'll be worth having and using.

Anyway here's my question. Most of what I read here is for early movement and strategy. What are people using for middle and late game strategies? Pike and crossbow has been mentioned but what about after gunpowder becomes availble? And how have people delt with the Mongols and the Timurids(sp?) once those two factions show up? I'd like to hear more about middle and late game strategies and tips if possible. :book:

Hosakawa Tito
12-30-2006, 06:15
I'm about 30 turns into my Milan campaign. I have just captured my first crusade target in the Holy Land, Antioch. One of my crusader generals will stay in the Holy Land and sack every major city/castle there. I plan on gifting these to the Pope and use the Papacy as a buffer state against the Mongols. Meanwhile, my second crusader general will reboard the fleet and head for my main target, Constantinople.

Spark
12-30-2006, 11:29
After reading this I'm tempted to try Milan. I like the archer/linemen type strategies best. I find cavalry useless for the most part in this game. If they ever fix the buggy calvary charges (patch v1.1 didnt fix it)then they'll be worth having and using.

Anyway here's my question. Most of what I read here is for early movement and strategy. What are people using for middle and late game strategies? Pike and crossbow has been mentioned but what about after gunpowder becomes availble? And how have people delt with the Mongols and the Timurids(sp?) once those two factions show up? I'd like to hear more about middle and late game strategies and tips if possible. :book:

I usually find the late game to be more of a "mop up" than closely matched battles. At that point you've got a huge empire and you can win battles before they start, simply by having superior numbers and supply lines.

In terms of armies, musketeer and pike lines work very well. Musketeers will take losses against archer-heavy factions, and they're hard to replace (I think they need the 6-7th level city barracks to retrain, which takes very long to build) so against such factions you might want to pick fights where you can place your musketeers on elevated terrain right behind your main line, and have a main line consisting of well armored and shielded heavy infantry (and Milan's are just as good as any other). They lack top tier offensive 2-handed infantry, so if you come up against a european enemy with lots of heavy infantry, you're going to have to rely on more than just a head-on infantry charge. Since you don't dig the cavalry, you can either outnumber them (easily done late game) or gun them down.

With the AI's disposition for militia and light infantry, though, you should have it pretty easy. Against strong opponents, I aim for their castles first so as to cut off their heavy infantry. Mongols (and horse archers in general) are a pain, I think I settled on massing heavy cavalry and genoese crossbowmen against them. Those crossbowmen can take a lot of fire before dropping. You can also recruit some mercenary longbowmen around Italy for the "plant stakes" ability, it comes in very handy against mongols. Your cavalry can keep up with the mongol cavalry trying to get to your flanks.

Of course you can always choose to not fight them on their terms, and hole up in scities or castles. Constructing forts at the end of every army movement also ensures they have to get through small gates and get chewed up by your infantry if they ever want to attack your armies. You can carry a spy with you to spot nearby stacks and decide whether or not you need to set up a fort. Lots of ways to avoid the open field horse archer slaughter.

katank
12-30-2006, 19:11
Late game, you don't need strategy. After carving out a decent sized empire early on, you can autocalc your way to victory simply by merit of your vastly superior production against even the Mongols and Timurids.

I think heavy cavalry should definitely be looked at. Familias Ducales (sp?) are one of the best. They are great against the Mongols also.

Militia spam with Italian Spear Militia and Pavise Crossbow Militia combined with a Carraccio standard is still quite viable into midgame as well and can in fact defeat the Mongols on bridges/river crossings at a favorable kill ratio.

Skott
12-30-2006, 22:50
When I got home after my posting I started a Milan campaign. I followed basic strategy that most outlined above. I left one general in Milan to build up and sent the other with every unit I could scrape up and took Florence. I made alliance and trade agreements with HRE, Papal States, and Sicily and only trade agreement with Venice since they I planned to attack as soon as I could. I made alliance with Sicily mainly to fool them into thinking I was friendly.

I took my army from Florence and put them on boat to Palermo. I had a mission to Corsica but I felt that island could wait. Sicily needed to be subdued quick before they could expand. I sent the army south via ship and took Palermo. Made peace with Sciliy right after that. They were eager for peace too.

Venetian troops left Venice with a token 2 unit force and went to grab Zagreb. I took the opportunity to snatch Venice while they were gone with my army from Milan. I tried to make peace right after taking the city but the Venetians dont forgive it seems.

I then took my army at Palermo and landed it at Naples and quickly took it. Soon as the city was taken I made peace with Sicily again. Sicilians arent too smart in this respect. They keep believing I mean them no harm. :laugh4:

I then made a new army in Genoa and sent it to capture Corsica. Unfortunately I was 1 turn too late to get the mission credit but captured it nonetheless. I then sent that army onto Sardinia but as I pulled my ships close into shore I saw the Moors and Sicilians had beaten me to it. The Moors were besieging and the Sicilians were standing about looking pretty upset.

Having a fleet and army I decided to race to Tunis and take it before the Sicilians realized I was a threat again. Tunis only had token guard force in it. It fell easily. I thought maybe that would end Sicily's involvement in the game but they managed to get Tripoli/Libya. The Venetians were gettting active in Northern Italy so I had to leave Tripoli and turn my attention back to the north.

The Venetians, not having forgiven me, marched a good size army into Northern Italy. I had built up my army in Venice and I sent most to guard the bridge to the city. Venice wouldnt attack though. Maybe the Pope was telling them not to? Not sure. I kept a diplomat parked at Rome to keep the Papacy happy while I expanded.

Eventually the Venetians went back to Zagreb and I planned to go grab Bern with my army from Venice but each time I marched west the Venetian army crossed into Northern Italy looking to snatch Venice back while I was away. I brought my army back and the Venetians retreated again. Everytime my army moved west they did so as well. Bern was taken by HRE so I figured I had three choices. Take Tripoli, Go to war with the HRE and grab Bologna, which wouldnt be easy because the HRE Emperor has a large army parked inside, or go after Venice. I could also do nothing but I dont think thats going to help.

Thats where things are at this point. I got my army from Venice just inside Venetian territory poised to strike Zagreb. A war with the HRE will be long and hard fought so I figure I might as well go ahead and take out the Venetians in Zagreb and Durazzo first if the Pope allows. They refuse to a ceasefire so I imagine they'd hit me if I was to fight the HRE. So they gotta be dealt with before I can fight the HRE. I'd like to avoid a two front war if I can for now.

The remaining Sicilian army in Tripoli is a nonthreat. I'll send a army from Tunis as soon as I can build a sufficient force to deal with them. The Moors can have Corsica for now. I'll let them build it up and once I have dealt with the Ventians and HRE I'll take Northwest Africa and liberate it from the Moorish occupation. But thats for later.

So far the Milanese troops are performing exceptionally well. I put the crossbow men in front, the Italian spearmen behind them and cavalry behind the spearmen or on the flanks to follow up any weaknesses. Basically move up to the enemy, soften up with arrows, if anything is left assault with spearmen. The cavalry hit from behind or use them to run down fleeing enemies. This works well so far but to be honest the enemy's troops so far are spearmen and other archers. No heavy infantry or heavy cavalry yet since its the beginning of the game still.

Palermo and Tunis are Castles and everything else is city/towns. I got a good flow of cash so far. About 4k florin a turn in profit after expenses. I got trade agreements and alliances with most everyone else so far. hopefully I can get Venice out of the game before the HRE realizes I'm a major threat. Meanwhile I'm building up my economy.

Gingivitis
01-04-2007, 23:54
Just wanted to give a shout out to the Carroccio Standard unit that Milan has. When I first purchased it I can honestly say I had no idea what it was or what it did. When I built the building that allows for its recruitment I thought it was some type of infantry unit. Much to my surprise it was some trebuchet looking thing. I recruited one anyway and dragged it around like a child's toy. It was on hand when I assulted Bologna after the HRE got ex-commed where it stood outside the place for most of the battle since it wouldn't fit under the gate. But hey, it looked impressive. After that I moved it to Florence to sit around.

As luck would have it soon Venice got the x-com and like a vulture I sent my spies into Venice to assure the gate would open and then the army from Florence as I felt it was a battle I could win. Unfortunately my movement points took me right next to Venice but I didn't have the last movement point to assault it. I was nervous when I hit the end turn button, and with good reason it seems, because I got sammiched with the Venice defenders and a medium sized stack behind me.

This was not a battle I felt I had much chance in, think we were out numbered around 850-500. The only reason I bothered trying it anyway is the force behind me had to cross a bridge and I thought maybe that would help. I was sort of right, in that we were able to rout the guys on the bridge with reasonable casualties, but the guys in front of us still seemed to have us as they had 2 Generals/Bodyguard units along with the rest of the troops. I sent in my infantry and 2/3 units of them got to the "only a military genious could win this battle" point. At that monent a lightbulb went off if my head, thankfully I was a miltary genious, in so much as I actually read the unit description of the Standard, "hey this seems like a good point to use this crazy contraption." So I sent it in and even while the infantry was getting pounded on they held their nerve long enough to hold the enemy long enough for my xbow units to route them. There was quite the element of luck involved as both enemy generals got themselves killed fairly early while they were among the first of their units to go down. On the other hand my general's bodyguard unit went from 22 to 4 but my general was able to stay alive. He was only like a 2 star general so I really think the reason we didn't rout has more to do with the Standard than the general. Somehow the Standard got 2 experience out of that fight too so I guess it's also a killing machine. There's a battle marker right outside Venice now that proudly reminds me of that fight.
Not to drift too far from the guide aspect that this is supposed to be about, but most of the posts have been spot on so there's not much to add, so I'll just repeat the things that I think were important in my game so far. Getting the two islands west of Italy are great, but the southern one seems to a magnet for Sicily and the Moor's attacks. Luckily I had the force that took Cagliari with sitting around since Sicily had already taken Tunis there wasn't much else around there to take so I figured I'd just keep them there until a crusade got called. Lo and behold I get attack after attack, they never have ome with a force that really has made me nervous yet, but I'm forced to keep a constant shuttle of troops back and forth to get retrained while avoiding enemy fleets.

The other thing that really helps, and as you can see from my little story, is getting Bologna and Venice asap. I took Zagreb and was really sweating losing it since reenforcement would constantly be stepping over those places and killing relations and I didn't want to have to resort to mercenaries. Once the 2 factions got the boot I pounced, sadly I had to break my alliance with the HRE to get Bologna but a few turns later they surprisingly offered me another alliance which brought peace with France and Hungary. Hungary tried to take Zagreb and France had one of those senseless naval blockades start a war. Once you have Milan, Florence, Genoa, Bologna, and Venice you have a great safe zone. You can keep the minimum garrison in each city and keep a stack in the middle and you're one turn away from getting to any city in the area if need be.

Having Rome to the south is quite the help but there is a pretty big downside in my game so far in that his Holiness won't stay in Rome. He's constantly milling around Genoa and Florence causing all my army movements to be messed up. I assume he's treated like a foreign army too and causing unrest but I'll have to check when I get back home for sure.

Snoil The Mighty
01-05-2007, 10:14
@Gingivitis

If you plan to stay in the Pope's good graces the entire game, the easiest thing to do is gift him military access at some point. I haven't thoroughly tested but if I recall rightly you need to be about 8 on your popescale readings to have him accept (I have had him turn it down when relations were lower and I think even as high as 7 results in refusal). Also it usually has given me those extra 2 points with back as well, making our relations perfect again which is a nice side bonus. At any rate once you do that there's no devastation from his wandering armies armies and I've had a much easier time getting around them.

comareddin
01-29-2007, 09:50
Many people have written excellent strategies while playing with the Milanese. I will just hand out a few tips that helped my tremendously. I play only VH/VH and IMHO this faction is the easiest after the English.

The main thing is your economic strength. You do not need any castles. Just field more militia than your opponent and you are set. If there is some lack of armies, you can always hire some mercenary troops. If you have a nice backbone of settlements, you will not run out of money because you will be paying far less upkeep than many of your opponents.

First thing I do with a Milan campaign is to conquer Florence. In one of my games Papal States conquered it which really pissed me off. With that you have three settlements in Italy.

Next thing to do is to send a permanent diplomat to Rome and start offering some gift money every turn, and keep your relationship with them at perfect. Around this time conquer Venice and then move south to conquer Sicily. If you keep your relationship with Vatican at a perfect level, you will not be excommunicated.

After this point my games differ from each other. Sometimes I set of to conquer Africa, sometimes France or HRE. One thing doesn't change though and that is a suitable army always conquers the island provinces.

After you conquer those islands it is a wise choice to leave permanent diplomats near Byzantine, Egyptian and if situation demands it, Turkish capitals to keep your relationship with them at high levels so your east Mediterranean trade will not be disrupted with unnecessary blockades and wars.

Sending a ship of 2-3 priests to Africa is a wise choice as those guys will become high piety in no time. If they turn into heretics... well that is a problem Moors will have to deal with. In one game I always had 7-9 cardinals that belonged to my faction. This guaranteed me the Papal elections which in turn meant less contribution to Vatican.

As a general tip, do not leave your generals rotting in your cities. Kill of those rebels with adequate armies (not overwhelming armies so your troops and general will get more experience) and do not forget to build those watchtowers. It really does make a difference in your campaign when you have a good vision of your borders.

PseRamesses
02-07-2007, 10:31
Besides all excellent posts and different strategies in this thread I might add a few quirks:
*Buy Bologna from the HRE. On M/M it will take some 5-6k over 5-10 turns to get it.
*Take Florence and launch a crusade on Tunis taking Corsica and Sardinia on the way.

KHPike
02-09-2007, 04:41
If possible, secure an alliance with the Papal States. This together with continued pacifying of the Pope will ensure you have a decent if somewhat temporary edge over your neighbours in the game.

I also find Genoese Crossbows to be excellent headhunters. Thanks to the passive AI bug, I frequently spam 5 of them on the general's unit. This combined with the way the AI arranges its armies in the center helps rack up the casualties while creating havoc among the army's elite troops.

Caelus
02-17-2007, 05:17
I’ve been playing with Milan lately, and they are probably my favorite Italian faction. This is what I have found most workable so far. Sorry if I repeat things others have said.

Overview:

The Milanese are in my opinion the most Italian of the Italian factions, in that they are the least reliant on castle troops and have the best militia.

If you like crossbows, you’ll love Milan. The Genoese crossbow is the best crossbow unit in the game. It has a very long range, and is very powerful. In addition they are quite effective in hand-to-hand combat, meaning you can safely field huge numbers of then without worrying about being overwhelmed by a strong mêlée infantry force (large cavalry forces would still be a problem, but could be dealt with). The crossbow militia is almost as good, so they can be used in professional offensive armies. They are also cheap and expendable.

They have all the standard European castle units (sergeant spearmen/armored sergeants, mailed/feudal knights), except instead of chivalric knights they have men-at-arms. This means that although you should probably base your army off militia, you can still use castle produced armies if you want to.

You’ll want to make it a point to tech up to Famiglia Ducale (available at the highest town hall building) and Genoese crossbowmen (castle version, available at fortress, with I believe a level three archery range). In the tests I’ve done Famiglia Ducale beat all French heavy cavalry except Lancers.

Strategy:

War with Sicily is inevitable, and Sicily in on your strategic “back door”, so I would make a point of destroying them as the first thing. In order to do this you must secure the support of the Pope. Send your diplomat right away and offer an alliance with trade rights and map information. This should give you a good favor rating which will be important in getting him to look the other way when you savagely and unprovokedly attack Sicily.

From the first turn you should be assembling as large a force as you can muster quickly, using mercenaries if necessary. Then send your army on board your fleet towards Palermo, bringing your spy along.

The Sicilians will probably be sailing to Tunis with their main army. This should leave Palermo and Naples lightly defended. Land off the shore of Palermo and have your spy infiltrate the castle. He may fail in his infiltration or may fail to open the gates, if so it’s still OK. Assault the castle rapidly, and then leave only a small garrison. However DO NOT attack until you have a high favor with the Pope. You may need to make a “donation” to the Vatican to assure this.

Once you have Palermo immediately sail to Naples and assault it in the same manner.

Crusader trickery: at some point, either before or after taking Palermo, you may want to ask for a crusade against Tunis. This has several advantages
1) It will prevent the Pope from calling a crusade against you in the event you do get excommunicated.
2) It will help rebuild your Papal favor after crushing Sicily (something the Pope will ask you not to do).
3) It will give you the advantages of crusading (experience, character traits etc.) without leaving your general sector or getting embroiled in war with eastern powers.
4) It will give you breathing time before crusades are called against eastern targets (which can be expensive).

Do not join the crusade until you have taken Naples and eliminated the Sicilians.

This way you can rapidly remove the faction which would otherwise be a constant thorn in your side quickly, and still have the Pope love you!

Speed is of the essence here, as you want to eliminate the Sicilians before they can expand beyond Palermo and Naples.

With command of Naples, Palermo, Milan, Genoa, Tunis and perhaps Florence, you should be making loads of money. Now send a diplomat to Bologna and ask the Kaiser to give up the city for six payments of 5000 florins. With some bargaining they should agree, and you want the city without going to war with the Reich.

Now you probably go after Venice. With control of all of Italy (except Rome) you can move in any direction you want.

Diplomacy:

You may want to ally yourself with the HRE before asking for Bologna, as this should make him more likely to agree. On the other hand if he refuses you may want to take it by force, in which case having been allied would have been a mistake. Ideally he will agree, in which case being his ally will be in your best interest. If you choose to make this alliance, try to make it while still at peace with Sicily.

Tactics:

The core of your army is your crossbowmen, of which you should have anywhere from six to twelve in a full stack (although twelve in extreme).
They are very competent in mêlée, so keep them in front with skirmish mode off. Behind them have a solid line of infantry, and cavalry behind the infantry. You may want to include a Carroccio standard and artillery.

The idea is to force the opponent into a dilemma: either stand there and get shot to pieces, or advance. If they advance they will more than likely not advance as a solid line (even as a human player it is hard to get your units to advanced side by side, they usually stagger), and thus the leading units will be caught in crossfire. Even if they can get past the hail of bolts and line of sword wielding crossbowmen, they will have to face a line of spearmen, by this time demoralized and beaten up. If they charge with cavalry, the crossbowmen will take the momentum, allowing your spearmen to do their stabby work.

In addition you may send some crossbows to the enemies flank and put down enfilade.

The cavalry can be used for flanking, but its main role is chasing routers. However keep at least three or four in a stack for tactical flexibility.

I hope this is clear.

Si GeeNa
03-13-2007, 02:30
How quickly the strategic picture changes in North Italy.

In one of those long drawn out struggles against Venice, my Milan has HRE and the Pope among allies. The Venetians have been knocking on Milan's door every other turn and I have been turning in far too many heroic victories for my liking.

Having turned away the latest incursion, Venice proceeded to siege Bologna instead of Milan. I ride with my ramshackle units to support the defence of my HRE allies. The turn after I place my stack next to Bologna, the Venetian stack entered it.

I have no idea what has happened. Obviously a battle has not taken place for the stack in Bologna looks to be complete. (HRE also had a complete stack within the city prior to this movement.)

I think the crafty Venetians had broker a good deal, they had sieged Bologna and subsequently offered to "buy" it over.

My previous safe city of Florence is now exposed with a Venetian Bologna. In the strategic consideration previously, I only had to worry about the defence of Milan. With the current development, I have to concern myself with possible attacks on both Milan and Florence from Venice and Bologna.

The immense enjoyment of it all...

Frederick_I_Barbarossa
04-04-2007, 23:36
I would really like to know what the AI is thinking when it is playing Venice...because it has a tendency to do absolutely INSANE things...like promptly attack Milan and HRE even though it is in an absolutely horrid strategic position. I don't WANT to conquer Venice as Milan...I want to do business with them, but their stupidity forces me to unleash a can of Milanese whoop-hiney on them...

PseRamesses
04-05-2007, 12:48
I would really like to know what the AI is thinking when it is playing Venice...because it has a tendency to do absolutely INSANE things...like promptly attack Milan and HRE even though it is in an absolutely horrid strategic position. I don't WANT to conquer Venice as Milan...I want to do business with them, but their stupidity forces me to unleash a can of Milanese whoop-hiney on them...
Perfect oppurtunity to make them your vassals then m8! Then u can continue trading plus get a hefty annual tribute from them.

DeathBUA
06-10-2007, 03:03
I've playing as Milan now, really actually enjoying the campaign. I've made some interesting strategic moves just to spice things up for myself. I've pushed my Empire to include Bruges, Paris, Dijon and Marseilles in a line running north south and thats as far west as I'll push myself right now(and I didnt take over metz, bern or anything like that). Then I took over Italy(except Rome for now) and Sicily, Ajaccio and Cagliari, Tunis and Tripoli. Then since Venice was excommed I crusaded against Zagreb, took that over and that's when I had my moment of lets do something different.

So I initially turtled, raising funds, improving cities and garrisons. Then I built myself 3 full stack armies with 3 teutonic knights, 5 genoese x-bow militia, 8 italian spear militia, and 3 DFK's + a general. And promptly went north from Zagreb and took Budapest from the Hungarians, Krakow and Thorn from the Polish and now my encirclement of the HRE is complete!

Now I'm gonna give the Pope the whatfor, seige Rome, then push inwards from all sides once I've got some more florins and troops. On top of that the Danes are my allies but once I've jacked the HRE up I'll take them out too...

Really I can't say enough about those Genoese X-bows...they are so versatile, and so deadly compared to anything else that they should be the core to which your army is formed around.

Mordon
06-11-2007, 18:46
Question:
I've heard that spears with the "good vs cavalry" trait are less effective against infantry than their non"Good vs cavalry" peers. Something to the tune of getting a reduction in attack vs infantry if they have the anti-cavalry bonus.

So, really, two questions:
#1: Is this true?
#2: If so, does this mean that a Milanese player(before teching up to dismounted broken lances and such) may want to use Italian Militia and Italian Spear Militia in conjunction, with the Spear Militia serving as anti-horse, and the regular Italian Militia as a sort of "light line-infantry"?

This is of course assuming you have full armour upgrades available for both.

This would also mean one could keep their armies going even longer, as you'd be using multiple unit pools, and could field new armies more quickly...:idea2:

Thoughts?

Iavorios
06-12-2007, 10:36
Well this is the point to play as any italian faction. All the spears whith anty cav. bonus are the best thing you can use against it. Espesially as a Milan you have axes to italian spear militia and genoese crossbow militia. The genoese crossbows are one of the best units in the game. Very good archers, and good melee fighters to. And they are availeble from city drill squere. So your armies as a Millan will be mostly made of italian spear militia and crossbows. And you can really make tons of them.

Mordon
06-12-2007, 18:27
What I mean is, are "Italian Militia" better than "Italian Spear Militia" at fighting in a melee against non-cavalry forces?

Currently my armies are a mix of Italian Spear Militia and Genoese Crossbow Militia.

I'm simply wondering if (armour upgraded) Italian Militia will fare better against other infantry than Italian Spear Militia.

Like I said in the prior post, I've heard that units that have the "good against cavalry" trait get an attack reduction when fighting regular infantry.

This would mean that non-bonused Italian Militia would make better infantry-vs-infantry fighters than Italian Spear Militia, who would form the anti-cavalry spearline.

If I recall, the game even calls Italian Militia "light infantry" while it calls Italian Spear Militia "Spearmen".

Magraev
06-13-2007, 09:12
I believe that is correct. Town militia has a small spear bonus too though, so they are not as good as sword infantry either. Dismounted knights or dismounted broken lances are the best foot infantry for milan. I think you need a castle though (bologna is an option - you just have to evict the germans. Bern is also good.).

John_Longarrow
06-14-2007, 21:19
Mordon,

As Milan, the spear malitia is better for you due to its anti-cav value. Your crossbowmen are better as infantry than the malitia due to better armor and a very nasty crossbow. So far I've found that having extra crossbowmen is much better than having the malitia around since it gives me more troops who can shoot without sacrificing combat power.

The spear malitia is better for use against cav which is why I have some in my armies.

Mordon
06-14-2007, 23:21
Yes, I prefer the crossbow militia as my all-around infantry(At least until I can crank out broken lances), I was just exploring possibilities of using more than one or two unit pools.

Every single catholic faction was at war with me in my campaign at the time I posted that query, so fielding as many effective troops as possible was important :sweatdrop:

On my next milanese campaign I'll be experimenting with regular Italian Militia for things like taking walls and other cannon-foddery things.(They are cheap, plentiful, and expendable; crossbows less so.)

Zinian
06-17-2007, 21:55
First time poster here, and somewhat of a Milan fan. (Only so long as you are Milan...:laugh4: ) Anyways. My general strategy with Milan consists of taking Florence on the 2nd or 3rd turn, and then converting it to a castle. Cagliari and the other island province off the coast are too isolated IMHO to use as "hard core" troop producers. Also, they can generate MASSIVE income if you have trade rights with France Spain and the Moors.

Keep a diplomat sitting on Rome, and get Rome to ally with you any way you can. If the Pope is angry at you for any reason, bribe him.
Congratulations! :idea2: Now, any faction that attacks you just about anywhere on the Italian providences will seriously tick off the Pope, and become excommunicated. Hold off Venice until this occurs, then hit them with everything you've got. Also, choose to ally with the HRE so that way Heinrich doesn't decide to attack you instead of Venice.

Also remember that way with Sicily, Venice and the HRE is a matter of when, not if. If you can, secure all of modern-day Italy before backstabbing the Pope to take Rome. Also be sure to keep several spies flitting around France to make sure they choose only to trade with you, not attack you. If you take Bern, you can hold them off rather handily, although beware troops coming across the coast from Marseilles(spelling?).

Once Gunpowder opens up, you can really shine. The Monster Ribault is one of the funniest things I've ever used, and fully capable of routing entire armies if you are fighting a bridge battle. Musketeers behind groups of men at arms is my general strat in endgame.

Good luck, and keep your x-bows at the ready!:hmg:

Monsieur Alphonse
06-18-2007, 03:56
I don't see a point in changing Florence in to a castle. Playing as Milan you don't really need castles.

You can start with buying Bologna of the HRE.

John_Longarrow
06-28-2007, 22:11
Mordon,

I've observed in game that Spear Malitia may not be as good at dealing damage as Malitia, but they can hold out longer. Their better defence seems to give them an edge against other factions spears and swordsmen.

I've also gotten into the habit of having my spear line just behind my crossbows. I'll keep the crossbows off skirmish and charge my spears through their formation to hit anything trying to attack the crossbows. If I get the timing right this means the enemy's charge is upset, they are stuck fighting my spears, AND my crossbows go hand to had against them. This trick has left many a dead Norman on the field.

marrow
10-11-2007, 10:54
VH/H

Everything went as planned,conquered Florence and Ajaccio (Sicily beat me to Cagliari) and grabbed Venice in retaliation for venetian attack on Milan.
Venice sent an army with 4 generals (including faction heir) and thus could never afford ransom (16000!!) so I broke their back in one go.
Cash started piling up immediately and queues were full up for many years ahead.
Pope is my best friend (I decided to pay him 750 florins for 25 turns...) but for some reason everyone is ganging up on me now, I mean proper.
The atmosphere started getting really tense when Venice allied with France and HRE, but then HRE allied with France and Sicily, Sicily allied with Venice etc...
On the back of that alliance the frenchies decided to block my ports only to get ex-commed and provoke my instant response.
Marseille fell immediately and I asked the pope to commision a crusade to Touluse, which I also promptly took.
That however pitted me against the Spanish pretty much straight away so now I am officially the most hated faction there is.
Even the Russians and the Danes hate me (poor & v poor respectively)...
Although I'm still on so-so terms with Sicily, they keep landing their troops on Corsica (full stack, inc. 3 NK and 4 DNK!) only to pack'em back on the boat immediately. I've been there so I know one turn they'll change their mind and besiege Ajaccio.
My own Milanese Pope is on his last legs (66 years old...) and the top dog in the college is a Venetian cardinal named Umberto the Missionary with full piety and he's only 42!
I can feel the rug being violently pulled from under my feet as I'm slowly but surely losing revenue - no one wants to trade with me - and I still have to produce troops for the war against France (marching on Dijon next spring).

I reckon this is quite normal though on VH, wouldn't expect less. Otherwise the Milanese are hard to match for raw power and numbers.
It has been said many times before but upkeep on their units is either completely free or cheap anyway so you always have a lot of men to throw around.
And of course you get Genoese Crossbow Militia pretty much right off the bat and they will see you punish the French & HRE on a completely new level.
All in all a very enjoyable campaign, even the units look cool in green (especially GCM with their pavises). Strongly recommend playing it on VH tho or it may turn out too easy and boring!

Jason X
10-23-2007, 12:05
any advice on guilds with milan?

specifically, does anyone bother trying for swordsmith guild in cities (i suppose the only practical way is build the whole armourer series in a citadel and then convert back to a city)?

also, does the woodman's guild archer bonus apply to crossbows, and has anyone tried for this with milan?

marrow
10-24-2007, 10:51
You can get a swordsmith's guild in cities later in the game once you've built a huge stone wall. Start churning out dism. broken lances and it should upgrade in no time, however this is a bit laborious and unlikely to come about before turn 80 - 100 (depending on farm upgrades and money) so it makes more sense to do this with castles. Best bet is to capture Touluse (the French usually invest in it) and establish the guild there. Best thing about Touluse is that it is a perfect cornerstone of your expansion into the Iberian peninsula and at the same time holds the French at bay. If you get SG HQ in there you can train some awesome armies. I currently have Armour Factory, top archery range and SG HQ in Touluse and my troops from there cut through the French, Portugese and the Spanish with ease. Plus, top archery building gives you mounted x-bows which are fantastic against Jinetes, especially with all those upgrades.

As for Woodsmen's Guild, I don't think it is worth your while as Milan. Genoese x-bows are ridiculous as it is and AFAIK the guild does nothing for them (don't quote me on this tho..) so you'll be much happier sticking with Merchant's Guild or Assasins' Guild. Just my 2 cents.

BTW, Famiglia Ducale are nowhere near as strong as FK in real life I have found so at least 1 - 2 castles is still a good thing to have.

Monsieur Alphonse
10-24-2007, 13:39
any advice on guilds with milan?

specifically, does anyone bother trying for swordsmith guild in cities (i suppose the only practical way is build the whole armourer series in a citadel and then convert back to a city)?

also, does the woodman's guild archer bonus apply to crossbows, and has anyone tried for this with milan?

Only England can build the Woodman's guild. If you capture one the bonus applies to all archer and crossbow units.

TheLastPrivate
10-24-2007, 14:05
I have yet to see England AI make woodsmen's guild, or even venture out of their island. Their AI needs some looking at..seriously

Jason X
10-24-2007, 14:14
thanks for the replies, chaps.
@marrow: my thinking was that a weapon upgrade would be good for broken lances from a city, but i remember reading that swordsmith's guild is castle only?

@monsieur alphonse: i now know (to my cost in my russia campaign) that only england gets woodman guild points when training archers, but i thought building the brothel buildings gave any faction woodsman guild points? good to know the bonus applies though, i might try getting one of my GCM producing cities to get this guild.

*edit* sheesh, WG is another castle only one, so this is another case of build brothels, convert to castle, get guild, convert back to city... bah!

TheLastPrivate
10-24-2007, 16:46
I think you can convert only once though, no?

marrow
10-24-2007, 19:46
thanks for the replies, chaps.
@marrow: my thinking was that a weapon upgrade would be good for broken lances from a city, but i remember reading that swordsmith's guild is castle only?

Eh, mon amis, I reckon I should put "don't quote mne on this" in my signature!
Thanks for that mate.

marrow
10-24-2007, 19:54
I think you can convert only once though, no?

I have converted several castles to cities and the option to convert it back to castle is still there.
Once a city grows past Large level (12k) it cannot be converted to castle though, so a conversion from a citadel to a city is irreversible.

Nepereta
10-24-2007, 21:02
I started my milan campaign a little like a lot of the venice starts. Diplomatic buyout of bologna -> take florence -> caligary -> ajacio. Roughly parallel to this set of conquests I try for dijon & bern.

I converted everything to cities. A good bet is to capture a fortress ( pre built) some other guy has built. I personally used Palmero?? (sicily) but I am sure there are other good possibilites out there. I think personally you only need 1 or 2 for the entire game the money you can make with the cities is immense and the militia are excellent and a very cheap alternative to the pros.

After cleaning up on these rebels ( Sicily is fast on Tunis in the 1.3 patch!) I would suggest taking north west africa from the moors using crusades ( bribe the pope if neccessary) once they engage Spain or Portugal ( thesse cities will be nearly empty) get your knightly order ( preferably hospitaller in Milan).

Timbuktu
Get a cav heavy army to rush down south to timbuktu. Jump start part or all of the journey with a readily completeable crusade for bonus speed. ( of course you will bleed troops if you appear to actively move away from your objective)

Get timbuktu's town hall upgrades and build a fort ontop of one of the ivory resources. Dump a cheap troop there and Keep filling the cheap fort every turn with a merchant. I don't whether this is cheating but it sure makes a lot of bread since every turn in that position will generate 300+ gold per merchant. Town hall+ ensures the Legal upgrades on the merchants. Try to power grow ( low tax + chivalric boss) timbuktu and work on getting the Merchant guild line ( which will be likely given the upgrades) and the constant stream of traders You'll eventually be getting merchants with high legal abilities and the two merchant guild traits if you play your cards right. Once you get 20 then fort up one of the other ivories and start filling that. Take Arguin whilke you are down there.

Increasing trader capacity

As you reach large cities ( hopefully as a result of being very chivalric in successive crusades) get into merchant banking! Merchant banks can give 1 or 2 additonal traders beyond those you get per grain exchange. The merchant bank upgrade is really worth while for this point + its shorter build time for the equivalent cost market upgrade.

Take every opportunity to wipe out the rest of the italians since each of the great cities is a marvelous trading opportunity. Especially once fully upgraded + Palmero makes a lovely central Geneose + swordsman base ( focused build here will likely net you a swordsmiths guild)

In terms of other bases initially I used Milan to produce x-bows. Genoa to produce shippping and general trading frippery. Its worthwhile desinating a second inland city for troop production. The sea cities should evetually have full upgrades simply to take advantage of militia troops( since you only get free that which you recruit).

Focus a lot of your build on making additonal cash and oodles of freely maintained militia troops and everything else will fall into place.

marrow
10-24-2007, 22:24
Dump a cheap troop there and Keep filling the cheap fort every turn with a merchant. I don't whether this is cheating but it sure makes a lot of bread since every turn in that position will generate 300+ gold per merchant.

Pah! Hat's off, this has to be the single best money making trick I've yet seen mate.
I would even go as far as to call it historically feasible, and it's not our fault AI can't match human invention in this respect. Sure, it gives you a shocking advantage, but hey... if you're strapped for dough it's excusable. Fair dues.

Bullethead
11-19-2007, 03:38
Just so FNGs understand....

The 1.2+ patches have radically changed the behavior of Sicily, so the general strategies laid out in some of the earlier posts aren't quite applicable these days. But this only applies to the opening moves.
After that, your economy should see you through.

Sicily will hit Tunis immediately with a family member and just about the whole Sicilian army. Leaving those troops there before Tunis falls, the Sicilian ships will return to Naples, grab some more troops, and head for Cagliari. The Sicilian army in Tunisia sometimes doesn't even besiege Tunis for several turns--I have no idea why.

Milan still needs to take Florence right off the bat, to forestall the HRE or the Papal States. But if you bring that army back to Genoa for reinforcements before heading to Ajaccio, odds are you'll then find Cagliari in Sicilian hands by the time you get there. Your only real hope of beating the Sicilians to Cagliari, if you leave them unmolested, is if pirates attack their invasion fleet while your fleet is not QUITE close enough to land the troops. However, this happens fairly often so it might be worth the gamble. OTOH, instead of hitting Ajaccio next after Florence, going to Cagliari next will gain you a couple of turns and usually get you there first.

More aggressive players might also consider doing the following:

Send the diplomat to Rome via Bologna, with money in hand for the bribery necessary to cover the immenent aggressive war with Sicily.
Send the initial Milan army to take Florence on turn 2 or 3.
Build ships instead of troops at Genoa for the 1st few turns.
Send one of your initial ships south to spy on the Sicilian fleet's position, so you can hit it with your main navy without having to look for it.
Send your augmented fleet to destroy the Sicilian fleet after it leaves Tunis. This will strand most of their army in Tunis, whether they take it or not.
Conclude the war with Sicily however seems best at the time.


Usually, on land, you'll have a free hand with Florence if you move there immediately. Your real rival for the other rebel provinces is Sicily, and this is a naval matter. Just remember that even with the bulk of the Sicilian army in Tunis, the Sicilians can still find troops to take Cagliari, so you need to kill their ships.

Robespierre
11-22-2007, 18:33
islands? schmilands. that what i say. trade? schmade.

Milan fans can steal a trick from venice. its this. send your diplomat to Bologna. offer trade rights and map info free to make them more friendly then when done offer 1000 florins for 6 turns for the city of Bologna. this done send your leader from Milan to the new city and the merc crossbows to link up with the heir to besiege Florence. the duchy rules!

then cannon up ready to fend off Venice. oh, and be nice to the papa, he's an old man.

glyphz
01-14-2008, 21:11
Ah, Milan... So treacherous in AI hands, that it becomes a priority to avoid them, disable them, or annihilate them ASAP. :furious3: Once you become adjacent neighbors, it's likely that no alliance will stop them from having a go at your lands. In a players hands...

Playing at 1.0, (try out a few factions before updating to ver. 1.X), M/M, and no fog of war :thumbsdown: (bear w/ me).
With only little land to expand to in mainland Europe, tried a tactic I found very favourable early game: purchase lands, much more feasible w/ HRE and French neighbors.:idea2:

So 1st turn, roads in genoa (plus diplomat)and ballista maker in milan (more on that later), militia in both.
diplomat to bologna (save first): alliance and trade rights, and...
Settled for bologna, vienna(such a rich city), and innsbruck for map info, military access, and 1300 for 19 turns. Cheers!:balloon2:
Sent spy to gain a bit of exp, combine fleets to port, disband most merc garrison in innsbruck, build more militias in purchased cities to slowly disband more mercs, besiege florence. uneventful 1st turn, no?

no alliances to venice, sicily, portugal, and moors, and perhaps hungary and byz emp, yes to spain and poland
best diplomat to marseilles, add reinforcement to besieging army (decided to starve, cardinal raises cats in milan, continue to build militias, esp in vienna, other diplomat to rome and sicily, build economy, while tech to ital spear militia in vienna and milan/genoa. once diplomat meets w/ the french (save 1st), i supposedly bartered for marseilles, but ended up with:
After trade and alliance, marseilles, toulose (sp?) and bordeaux (sp...:sweatdrop: , anyway they got it quick) for around 1180 for 15 turns). Nice!

First crusade
build up, first ballista ready. once florence succumbs, get your spy, cardinal +priests created, all generals except Faction L (too old:skull: ), and all available troops in north italy (while still keeping decent garrisons in milan and bologna to deter invasions, no doubt spies are already mingling and sending info). once ready call a crusade to tunis ASAP, and entertain the pope if you have to. :clown:
Ajaccio is 1st up, i got a mission for it and received 4 knights (they so look cool in milanese green btw:yes: ) reinforce borders, esp in the west or disband if needed (or why not disband other units in place of your free knights). send also in your spy/ies, priests to get exp, then next turn move to cagliari and tunis.
*keep both islands as castles until you have at least built a peasant unit or 2, before turrning to cities, you may want all your crusading troops to gain exp.
i had 4 generals in my one crusading army that besieged tunis, but b4 assault use your faction leader in italy and assemble his own crusading army (militias). tunis falls and all 4 had at least 3 command (8 the most), 5 chivalry (8 most), 7 loyalty (10 most), and 4 piety (6most). almost teared up in pride. oh yes i did!

i'm not done yet, not with my cooked up master plan (evil grin)
but that's for later
notes: 1. all of this done by10 turns or slightly less.
2. i find taking bern important, and was lucky to get it after a half stack HRE failed to. Got dijon too. actually took it along w/ bern as it was left w/ a weak garrison. sent parties from milan/genoa, marseilles (merc xbows), toulouse.
zaragoza also fell to me w/ troops from bordeaux, and reinforcements made from toulouse. *eyes* pamplona greedily.
3. bordeaux, ajaccio, cagliari, and tunis became cities. tripoli too once i get it.
bordeaux if i ever get angers. and pamplona (future) if i get toledo. (allied to spain and i want to avoid backstabbing)

2cents: in purchasing cities, i go for payment as stretched out as possible
Reasons.1. AI waits for me to finish the deal completely before planning to take back what was originally theirs, allowing me to build up (farms most important, esp in castles) and reinforce my border states (italian sp./genoese xbow mil, armoured seargents).
2. not too much of a drain on my treasury early on, allowing me to at least built simple economic buildings everywhere
3. dont take what is hard to protect. i didnt go after rennes (despite long term plans to seize the brit isles), and was taking a gamble w/ dijon, and zaragoza (high risk/high reward).
Hope , you enjoyed it

Mek Simmur al Ragaski
03-26-2008, 22:16
Well here what i reckon you should do with Milan

Expansion
Expand into Florence, but then gift or trade it to papal states, as this city is a key target for attacks by HRE, Venice and Sicily. Then you should take Ajjacio to the south, aswell as Cagliari, which are good to fall back to as the AI is not intelligent enough to port units to attack islands by the sea. You might consider taking Bern to the North, but it is heavily defended so bring a strong army. Then i suggest either moving to Africa or trying to wipe out Venice, they become a threat and a pest towards the middle of the game.

Units
Genoese Crossbowmen are the one of the finest crossbowmen in the game, so i suggest you get them, as they are also good at piercing armour, and there is lots of that to pierce when it comes to HRE, also the militia and spears towards the start tend to be decent, compared to the mass of spears you get whilst playing England. Although they may lack cavalry to begin with, Cagliari has the first stable, so you can recruit mounted sergeants from there, but other than that you dont really need a great amount of cavalry, the generals bodyguard is fine for this point in the game

Economy
Aswell as serving as good military points, both Ajjacio and Cagliari are key economical points, as no merchants can go there, if you exterminate the population when you take it over, then the population will rise when you build, so these settlements can become key economical points. Aside from this, central Italy is one of the key diplomat areas, you will get diplomats coming from all over the map to exchange rights etc. so get as many trade rights as possible and you should earn alot of money

Navy
Aswell as being threatened inland, Milan faces problems with its navy, as there are both French and Rebel navies scouring the area. Build up a navy of around 6 ships andd you should be able to hold the ports in your area from blockadation.

Papal States
It is important to keep in the popes good books, as he does bad things to those who oppose you, when you go on a crusade, and are fed up with the settlements revolting on you, sack them and give them to the pope as a gift, he will not only like you more, but so will the factions who are favoured by the pope.

Well hope this helps on yor exploits as the kingdom of Milan...

TheLastPrivate
04-13-2008, 13:55
As of 1.02....

1) DO NOT ever, ever take cagliari/ajaccio. After 1.02 the AI has developed naval fetish, and will risk losing their mainland provinces just to assault these two islands.

If you don't take these, they'll land on Genoa, but that's a lot easier to defend than ajaccio and cagliari, which don't even make that much money early on. Once Moors,Sicily, and Venetians are eliminated you can take the islands, although still expect Spanish/Portugese landing parties.

2) Buy out bologna with alliance offer (they will break it first so don't worry) and a few florins, and as soon as venetians leave Venice unguarded hit it and kick the venice out of the peninsula. After that, build a fort around the venetian port "choke" and defend your peninsula with it.

3) After Venice kick out Sicily, all the while buttering up the pope. If they get excommed (or venice), strike a crusade down their major castle/cities and consolidate Italy. However, you can forget about Ragusa/durazzo as they aren't worth it.

4) Bern/Innsbruck offers very good frontier defense, use forts at the chokes.

5) Once Italy is consolidate the world is your oyster, although I prefer going west and south (Make Tunis your pope academy :laugh4: )

TKaz84
04-20-2008, 03:05
As of 1.02....

1) DO NOT ever, ever take cagliari/ajaccio. After 1.02 the AI has developed naval fetish, and will risk losing their mainland provinces just to assault these two islands.

If you don't take these, they'll land on Genoa, but that's a lot easier to defend than ajaccio and cagliari, which don't even make that much money early on. Once Moors,Sicily, and Venetians are eliminated you can take the islands, although still expect Spanish/Portugese landing parties.

Or, you can ALWAYS take Cagliari and Ajaccio. They are usually council targets anyway, so you might as well get rewards. After that you can either park flees around them and sink any army that comes close, or you can wait for someone to land there and then take their mainland provinces. Even if you lose the islands if you conquer the mainland you will have crippled whatever faction that took them, allowing you to dispose of them at your leisure.

CrusadeAgainstYourEnemies
07-26-2008, 23:16
Has anyone encountered this situation?:

Milan VH/VH.

It's past turn 50 and I've only been in one war so far and nobody else wants to start with me. I like to be attacked than counterattack with a vicious blow so my Reputation and Papal rating stay high.

I control only 5 provinces but I'm swimming in money: Milan, Genoa, Florence, Bologna and Venice. And they're all Huge Cities at this point.

I'm allied with the Pope but so is France, they keep sending spies into Genoa but they never attack.

The Holy Roman Empire is busy with the Danes, the Polish and the Venetians.

Speaking of Venice, since I crusaded on Venice and lopped the head off their faction, they've taken Veinna but haven't sent anything my way in a while.

Furthermore, the Sicilians haven't done anything and I usually expect an attack from them.

But perhaps my Reputation, Papal Favor and large idle armies are frightening to these factions.

I'm looking to use these Broken Lancers and Heavy Infantry/Men At Arms units... I'm still at war with Milan and just took Zagreb because I was bored, I hate that settlement and always avoid it.

Do I just continue to wait for an attack or do I teach the French of the Sicilians a lesson?

I've got a feeling that second I enter into a war with either one of those faction, the other will look to
capitalize... which I don't have a problem with militarily, but it will F up my Papal favor and my diplomatic relations with everyone else.

Side note: Spain was excommunicated a while back and I thought about going to Iberia, but this was around turns 35-45 and I was sure one of my bordering countries wanted to get their hands on the best moneymaking cities on the map.

I just thought it was very weird being Milan and nobody wanting to fight me.

Anyways, I think I'm just going to start some sh*t with the Sicilians to get Palermo as I don't have a castle yet, and payoff the Pope to look the other way.

So much for being a respectable, fire when fired upon type nation.

After all, I am American, might as well start playing like it.

CrusadeAgainstYourEnemies
07-27-2008, 03:36
Has anyone encountered this situation?:

Milan VH/VH.

It's past turn 50 and I've only been in one war so far and nobody else wants to start with me. I like to be attacked than counterattack with a vicious blow so my Reputation and Papal rating stay high.

I control only 5 provinces but I'm swimming in money: Milan, Genoa, Florence, Bologna and Venice. And they're all Huge Cities at this point.

I'm allied with the Pope but so is France, they keep sending spies into Genoa but they never attack.

The Holy Roman Empire is busy with the Danes, the Polish and the Venetians.

Speaking of Venice, since I crusaded on Venice and lopped the head off their faction, they've taken Veinna but haven't sent anything my way in a while.

Furthermore, the Sicilians haven't done anything and I usually expect an attack from them.

But perhaps my Reputation, Papal Favor and large idle armies are frightening to these factions.

I'm looking to use these Broken Lancers and Heavy Infantry/Men At Arms units... I'm still at war with Milan and just took Zagreb because I was bored, I hate that settlement and always avoid it.

Do I just continue to wait for an attack or do I teach the French of the Sicilians a lesson?

I've got a feeling that second I enter into a war with either one of those faction, the other will look to
capitalize... which I don't have a problem with militarily, but it will F up my Papal favor and my diplomatic relations with everyone else.

Side note: Spain was excommunicated a while back and I thought about going to Iberia, but this was around turns 35-45 and I was sure one of my bordering countries wanted to get their hands on the best moneymaking cities on the map.

I just thought it was very weird being Milan and nobody wanting to fight me.

Anyways, I think I'm just going to start some sh*t with the Sicilians to get Palermo as I don't have a castle yet, and payoff the Pope to look the other way.

So much for being a respectable, fire when fired upon type nation.

After all, I am American, might as well start playing like it.

The whole peace phenomenon survived a while longer, but not too long.

I leisurely made my way to Veinna (controlled by Venice) and crushed the Venetians with a full stack of Famigla Ducale, Geneose Crossbowman, Dismounted Broken Lances and several spear militia under the Generalship of the Duke.

I started a war with Sicily with my main army under my faction heir, the Count and was warned several times back and forth by the Pope. I backed off and the Sicilians struck at Bologna. It was a tough seige but Hand Gunners eventually saved me. Sicily was Excommunicated and my Faction Heir joined a Crusade against against Naples.

Meanwhile the French have decided to attack. Their first attack came a turn after I attacked Sicily. They were rebuffed, rather embarassingly at Milan when I sallied. They offered a quick peace and I received Bern in exchange.

They lost their alliance with the Pope in the process. Yet about 10 turns later, when Sicily was excommunicated and my main Italian army joined the Crusade, the French moved into Italian lands again with several 1/2 stacks and blockaded Genoa.

Bern received a Templars guild immediately when I acquired it. They proved most valuable against the French.

I've since sacked Naples and beat the French back yet again.

Several interesting notes here:
-The major powers are the French, the Danish and me in the European theatre.

-The Danes have beaten down the Holy Roman Empire to only one province, Innsbruck.

-The French have Northern Iberia and all the usual French provinces from Rennes to Marsaille to Antwerp.

-The Venetians have migrated after taking it on the chin from the Milanese and the Hungarians to the former HRE territories. It's hysterical to see the Venetian capitol be Staufen with their only other holding Nuremberg.

The Mongols have come and wiped the floor with the Turks, secured Jerusalem as their "new homeland" and are in the process of fighting the Byzantines and the Egyptians. The Byzantine Empire has fallen in the west as it is controlled by the Hungarians all the way to Constantinople.

Gunpowder rocks. I love nothing more than Crossbowing my enemy to half strength, then sending in the melee and flanking one side with cavalry and the other with 2 groups of hand gunners. The Cannae "total victory" is fun to engineer. ***Hand Gunner those Generals Bodyguard - Devastating***



==+++===+++ This is by far the most fun I've had with a faction. The Milanese have exactly what I look for: coastal cash cities, proximity to central Europe for maximum strategical importance and difficulty (fun), great militia units and the ability to train most of their top teir troops at a city rather than a Castle.

Motep
07-27-2008, 08:52
My military is dine up mostly in cities, though I get the occasional castle to boost up my military might. I start by allying with HRE, Venice, Sicily, and Pope (if I can. They usally do right off the abt for map info and small tribute), taking Florence. Then I take the islands to the west. I chill for a few turns, building my might. Then I steamroll venice untill the pope says stop, then I leave them be, for by that time, they are pushed to 1-3 places. (I bypass armies on the road, and deal with them once in the town...I am good with sieges). Then I build up till the first crusade, and then I strike the holy land with alot I got, I set up a good base there. Then I strike Sicliy and finish Venice. Just go on from there, watch out for the timurds, they are mean.

Seamus Fermanagh
07-28-2008, 02:41
Enjoying a Milan VH/M at the moment.

I agree with the sentiments about their forces mix. Castles for the Milanese are a nice addition, but not a necessity. The only real value they have is providing good offensive cavalry in the early game and those lovely Crossbowmen. Remember to set up a lot of merchant guilds relatively early on as they provide MilCav. MilCav is a weak offensive unit, but a very nice defensive counterpuncher in sieges.

I bought the HRE out of Italy on turn one, then allied with my neighbors while grabbing Ajaccio and Cagliari. Cagliari was towned immediately, with Ajaccio going the same way after I'd produced cavalry for a few turns. I then defended Bologna against the Sicilians and Milan against the Venetians for a long while, taking Venice away from Venice after butchering a few stacks on my walls. Venice would threaten Venice from time to time, but never could build an army capable of taking it. Sent one army to the Holy Lands by boat on the first crusade, ending up with Acre and Jerusalem quickly and Gaza after a few turns delay. Later on I Took Damascus, Aleppo, and Antioch for cash, giving them to the Holy Father one at time. This led to the second crusade -- Palermo:devilish: -- and the removal of my other Italian enemy.

At the time, Milan and Genoa were undergoing frequent siege by the French. All of these sieges were hard fought, but cavmil reinforcements next to the cities as the siege assault began gave me the edge to win all of those fights. France killed so many frenchment trying that the English rolled them up from behind to the point where the Frenchies only hold Angers and Marseilles! To add to the fun, the Scots then rolled the English out of England entirely! In the East, the Mongols (Northern track this game) slowly stamped "paid" on Russia and on Poland, but stumbled turning South and never really took out the Byzantines. Latterly, I stamped out Egypt while letting the Pope faff with Turkey and Byzantium -- though I did take Byzantium on the 3rd Crusade and have been back filling toward Venice, removing the Venetians from the continent.

4th Crusade is Tunis (done), though I'm wondering if the Spanish (already up to Algiers) will try to take it from me....

Motep
07-28-2008, 07:10
At the time, Milan and Genoa were undergoing frequent siege by the French. All of these sieges were hard fought, but cavmil reinforcements next to the cities as the siege assault began gave me the edge to win all of those fights. France killed so many frenchment trying that the English rolled them up from behind to the point where the Frenchies only hold Angers and Marseilles! To add to the fun, the Scots then rolled the English out of England entirely! In the East, the Mongols (Northern track this game) slowly stamped "paid" on Russia and on Poland, but stumbled turning South and never really took out the Byzantines. Latterly, I stamped out Egypt while letting the Pope faff with Turkey and Byzantium -- though I did take Byzantium on the 3rd Crusade and have been back filling toward Venice, removing the Venetians from the continent.



Is why you dont strike the french (unless you really want to)...the English will usually take them for you if you let them wash over your walls. Is always good to have the English completely in France, where they are still easily beaten. To help this, I ally with the Scots, and reinforce with cash from time to time.

As for your Mid-east strategy, it is a good one. Leave the pope to deal with the north heathens, you take the south...then the north...then the pope!

kitbogha
08-11-2008, 18:55
I have decided to play as Milan to see if there was an alternative to their "sneaky, backstabbing, cheating, lying" approach as played by the AI.
There is: I am at turn 61 and am the proud Lord of 18 provinces, acquired through firm but fair means. So far my rules have been simple-
1) Only attack those who attack me...
2) Unless they are Muslims or Rebels which I believe would have made me a crazy Liberal in the Medieval world (if indeed such a concept had existed then).
In doing so I have only attacked the Muslims twice, firstly the Moors to get Algiers, which I needed as a toehold in North Africa and I then agreed a ceasefire which I have since stuck to. Secondly on the express orders of the Pope I crusaded against Antioch.
I have allied with all and sundry and stuck to my alliances so far. The Venetians broke our alliance early on and I have righteously pursued and harassed them until their faction is on the brink of extinction and intend to destroy them in thenext few moves with my army moving north from Ragusa towards their last stronghold in Vienna.
My economy is pretty healthy and my lands are happy. I have six Cardinals in the college of Cardinals and have seen two of the last three Popes come from my faction. However as the endgame approaches things do tend to get more complicated and snaekiness and political expediency begin to be less avoidable but I will try to stick to my principles, Machiavelli will be turning in his grave.....

Motep
08-17-2008, 21:39
Machiavelli will be turning in his grave.....


Quite right. Good luck with that, sticking clean gets hard to do with Milan, especially when you are attacked by several of your "allies" at once. makes assasins and other means much more viable to you.

(note, I just won a game without having to attack any factions at all! I just assasinated all of the family members with a small army army of assasins, and dealt with the rebels that were left behind. Not exacty clean, but the pope wasnt angry untill he was dead as well. Take that, pope...making a venician cardinal pope, how dare you!) :grin2:

kitbogha
08-19-2008, 08:30
Nice idea, Motep. :evil:
Now at turn 120 and 30 provinces in the bag, but the waters are muddier. At war with France, Hungary, Sicily and the Mongols so my higher ideals are being strained. I think your assassins plan is looking more expedient than ever.
The Mongol front has stretched me financially but I think I have finally overcome them (at the expense of around six large armies and endless battles). Gunpowder has finally been invented and that should help. I have large armies heading for Paris and Corinth(?) and am teching Vienna and Budapest up for a push to destroy the Hungarians. :hmg:
Just as I am getting things in hand the Poles are beginning to get pushy (irritating demands for money and a couple of agents sent into Vienna). I still haven't attacked any allies as yet and will have to content myself with that for the moment.

Motep
08-20-2008, 02:18
Nice idea, Motep. :evil:
Now at turn 120 and 30 provinces in the bag, but the waters are muddier. At war with France, Hungary, Sicily and the Mongols so my higher ideals are being strained. I think your assassins plan is looking more expedient than ever.
The Mongol front has stretched me financially but I think I have finally overcome them (at the expense of around six large armies and endless battles). Gunpowder has finally been invented and that should help. I have large armies heading for Paris and Corinth(?) and am teching Vienna and Budapest up for a push to destroy the Hungarians. :hmg:
Just as I am getting things in hand the Poles are beginning to get pushy (irritating demands for money and a couple of agents sent into Vienna). I still haven't attacked any allies as yet and will have to content myself with that for the moment.


Thats the problem with playing Milan...

Nobody likes you

Good luck with the poles and the Mongols, thay can get very annoying at times.

kitbogha
08-20-2008, 15:53
Thanks Motep,
The Mongols in particular are tenacious little £$%^ers. Have only added one province in last ten turns. I took Rhiems and Paris but overreached a little and the French retook Rhiems. Also lost an army in a narrow defeat to two Hungarian stacks after a seige. The black death has wreaked it's usual havoc with things but I feel the stage is set for the endgame. I think I will consolidate against France and set to with Spain-who I am already at war with, thereby not compromising my principles- (handy for my North African powerbase) and the Hungarians (they've riled me up now!) before crowning the victory with an assault against Constantinople (now in the hands of the Poles).
That's the plan anyway. It's a shame that America is pretty much an irrelevance in this game due to the time and effort needed to exploit it. A much shorter journey would have made things more interesting.

Overnight update- turn 151, 35 provinces and armies marching on Lisbon and Constantinople. The Mongols really are tricky customers. Thought I'd seen the back of them but they slowly re-emerged and are causing me bother again, retaking Adana and besieging Antioch. I am in two minds whether to just abandon these mid east provinces until later. They are just a big money drain. I can easily make up the magic victory number by going after Spain, Portugal, Poland and Hungary who have all had the temerity to start wars against me.

Motep
08-23-2008, 22:44
Thanks Motep,
The Mongols in particular are tenacious little £$%^ers. Have only added one province in last ten turns. I took Rhiems and Paris but overreached a little and the French retook Rhiems. Also lost an army in a narrow defeat to two Hungarian stacks after a seige. The black death has wreaked it's usual havoc with things but I feel the stage is set for the endgame. I think I will consolidate against France and set to with Spain-who I am already at war with, thereby not compromising my principles- (handy for my North African powerbase) and the Hungarians (they've riled me up now!) before crowning the victory with an assault against Constantinople (now in the hands of the Poles).
That's the plan anyway. It's a shame that America is pretty much an irrelevance in this game due to the time and effort needed to exploit it. A much shorter journey would have made things more interesting.

Overnight update- turn 151, 35 provinces and armies marching on Lisbon and Constantinople. The Mongols really are tricky customers. Thought I'd seen the back of them but they slowly re-emerged and are causing me bother again, retaking Adana and besieging Antioch. I am in two minds whether to just abandon these mid east provinces until later. They are just a big money drain. I can easily make up the magic victory number by going after Spain, Portugal, Poland and Hungary who have all had the temerity to start wars against me.

:laugh4:

And yes, I would give the mongols a couple cities for now. Their crack troops will be dispersed amongst crap troops once they start producing. makes conquest that much easier, battle for battle, anyways.

To add another note, my games have never lasted long enough for america to show up...

kitbogha
08-24-2008, 20:50
Turn 171, 43 provinces and closing in on the last two, should finish on Antioch (as a crusade-a nice crash bang wallop of a finale).
Motep,
To paraphrase Killgore in Apocalypse Now-it's nice to finish operations early- but if you play a more gradual game you get access to the full range of technology, troops etc. Besides, I'm so anally retentive I like to take the whole map....

Motep
08-24-2008, 21:38
Turn 171, 43 provinces and closing in on the last two, should finish on Antioch (as a crusade-a nice crash bang wallop of a finale).
Motep,
To paraphrase Killgore in Apocalypse Now-it's nice to finish operations early- but if you play a more gradual game you get access to the full range of technology, troops etc. Besides, I'm so anally retentive I like to take the whole map....


But a blitz is sooo much fun! Though the slow and steady is ore stable, with less risk. Anyways, could you send me a couple screens of your campaign?

kitbogha
08-25-2008, 21:27
Sure, how do I do this? General, yes. Competent on computers, no.

Motep
08-26-2008, 01:42
the prt scrn button. You might have to combine it with shift, I think...

kitbogha
08-27-2008, 15:31
the prt scrn button. You might have to combine it with shift, I think...

Hmm...possible prob. The PC I use to play on has no modem. The PC I use to go on this website is my work one. I will try to copy some shots onto disc from PC 1 and get them onto site via PC 2. PC 2 might not let me (the NHS is a bit narky about appropriate use etc) Bear with me....
PS finally completed on turn 176. 45 Provinces are now a delightful green...

Motep
08-29-2008, 03:07
Hmm...possible prob. The PC I use to play on has no modem. The PC I use to go on this website is my work one. I will try to copy some shots onto disc from PC 1 and get them onto site via PC 2. PC 2 might not let me (the NHS is a bit narky about appropriate use etc) Bear with me....
PS finally completed on turn 176. 45 Provinces are now a delightful green...

:evil:

Daan O
09-03-2008, 17:53
Turn 50 now, and I'm going strong. Playing on VH/H

I Posses Bern, Dijon, Venice, Milan, Genua, Florence and Ajaccio in Europe, and Iraklion, Rhodes and Cyprus in the seas.
Somewhere around turn twenty, th Byzantines popped up with a friggin' huge army near Florence. i demolished them, with only a meagre town garrison, but the kept on spamming. I also was got in war with Venice, and from time to time with Sicily. So, when he pope called a Crusade, I used it to strand down on Crete, and take iraklion, and form there, Rodes and Cyprus.
The French are my closest ally, we also have military acces they help me against venice, I help them against the Scots. It's important to keep them as a friend, since my continental arm isn't the greatest: the Germans could run me down easily if I was on my own.
Right now, I'm sieging Antioch, which is the target of the 2nd Crusade. Even on Vh/H, Milan is still one of the easiest factions to play.

HopAlongBunny
09-04-2008, 13:11
I wonder if it's just me.
Anyone else go crazy with forts when playing an Italian faction?

I get really annoyed when factions cruise into Italy demanding my land and women:no: At least a fort in each pass makes the brutes "knock" before entering:clown:

kitbogha
09-04-2008, 16:41
:evil:
No, doesn't want to play the game. I have a mate who does comp support. I'll ask him his opinion next time he's round.:wall:

Motep
09-05-2008, 02:07
No, doesn't want to play the game. I have a mate who does comp support. I'll ask him his opinion next time he's round.:wall:


The evil was for Milan owning much land. Always a wonderful sight!

floydsvoid123
11-28-2008, 23:09
My Milan game was pretty standard as well, I took the two islands and Florence first, followed by Venice and Bologna. Just these seven are enough to make you pretty much invincible. I rarely expand northward or into France as I find continental Europe to provide far less income than Italy.

Right now I could attack Sicily, finish off the Venetians, or land in North Africa. My cardinals are being generated in Greece, but North Africa wouldn't be a bad place to make more.

I do have a question about Iraklion (the Venetian town on the island of Crete, south of the Byzantines); is it worth anything really? I remember in RTW it would always be one of the first cities I took for the amazing Cretan archers and the massive income from purple dye trade in the Aegean once I got it to port status. But now it doesn't have any such important trade item and my only use for it so far has been to build up and train my navy. Does it become a rich merchant city when you take Greece and Asia Minor? Or is the naval outpost its only use?

CrusadeAgainstYourEnemies
01-13-2009, 04:14
Installed the Stainless Steel mod, and I've got to say I really enjoy it. But the reason I'm posting about this is because I've found a great start for Milan.

In the first few turns, I took Florence, bought Bologna from the HRE for 2 payments of 2,000, an alliance, trade rights and map information. Nothing revolutionary here...

Then surprisingly enough, I was able to buy Marsaille from France for about two payments of 4,000.

Then I took the Count (faction heir), fresh off his taking of Florence, and marched him up to Lyons, reinforcing him with spear militias from every city he passed. I took Lyons after two turns of seige.

The great part about this, and it surprised me that I was able to do it, was that by 1102, Milan was an actual country without going to war with anyone.

I allied with England and Sicily (and remained allies with the HRE), got trade rights with everyone and was able to build/tech for my eventual war with Venice. This strategy of buying Bologna and Marseille, taking Florence, then going after Lyons made it possible for me to establish a real homeland base of operations.

Think about it, from the start you have 3 cash cow coastal cities in Marsaille, Genoa, Florence. Bologna and Milan are my military/inland strongholds where I place extra emphasis on teching up the town hall/militia buildings instead of economic buildings. Lyon is my early game cavalry factory and a good base of operations for any eventual war with France.

I'm still at the start of my game and I just took Ajacco and crusaded to Tunis to get my second faction heir, Bernardo's son, some real good traits as he will eventually be king. I gifted Tunis to the Pope as I did not want to provoke Sicily or the Moors until I've destroyed Venice.

This was done on the Stainless Steel mod, but perhaps you should try to buy Marseille in the regular game too.

Good luck, hope this helped.

Master Young Phoenix
03-09-2009, 08:06
I'm currently playing a milan campaign, and it's getting tough, anyother nation with ships in the med is a treacherous wretch.

At the start I planned on having Milan as main training centre and genoa as the economical settlement, whil going for both corsica and sardinia and then Florence. Then I turtled, build an economy, a good fleet and a nice army of crossbowmen and spear militia. then I played the waiting game, either for venice to attack me, or sicily to attack the HRE.

Sicily attacked me instead at Sardinia. It was nought but a skirmish at the gates of Cagliari, and some naval battles, snuck a spy into Pamplona and captured it. The pope then ordered a peace.

Then Venice attacked, got it's men slaughtered at Milan and lost it's capital in the next turn... after which the nobles asked me to take still-rebel Zagreb. piece-a-cake. The next 2 years, the pope allowed me to take Naples (sicily) and Ragusa... and then the HRE started blockading ports. As a result, I took Bologna from them. the two factions then sued for peace... the sicilians never bothered me again

The waters of the med never knew peace again. the HRE and Venice kept targetting my ports

I crusaded on Caesarea to get a base in asia minor to later attack my family-in-law the Byzantines, probably near the end of the campaign, there'd be mongols and more crusades first. besides, the Portugese were getting a bit cheeky, blocking ports and targetting Ajaccio as an alternative ehm target for their crusading army. Their little fleet was sunk and the army, a good 20 companies of spear, horse and swordsmen drowned.

as the HRE kept annoying me I first took Innsbruck from them, again they begged me to have mercy on their beer swilling, sausage-eating souls... and promptly blocked my ports again... and got excommed, losing Nuremberg and Vienna to the crusading armies of the duke of milan, king of naples and the two sicilies.

Nuremberg went to el papa, to up my favor... as did Ragusa, turned into a town and being troublesome and rebelious (and to get the pope into conflict on the balkans.)

The French and Portugese then got snotty, got excommunicated and lost Metz, Zaragoza, Pamplona and Valencia, while the egyptians were relieved of Iconium and Adana. Iconium I gave to the pope so he could screen my asian holdings from Venice who had taken Smyrna...
Gave Pamplona to the spanish so they could link their kingdom (also held bordeaux and angers, lost Leon) and to improve relations

and then the mongols came... I massacred three of their stacks at the antioch bridge, but then retreated. they besieged adana for two turns and retreated when the pope called a crusade on their new capital antioch... that's were I'm now. at war with egypt, the mongols, france and portugal. And the HRE has finally lost all it's mediteranean fleets and a great host of family members and milanes legions are on the march to Antioch. If I can stop the mongols now and get a stable middle-eastern colony, the future will look bright indeed.

rvg
03-10-2009, 14:37
Once the gunpowder becomes available, Milan is capable of fielding the most cost effective armies compared to any other faction. My typical Milanese army ca 3120 or so (ver 1.2, VH/VH, large unit size, 1ypt):

2 Culverins. Indispensable for sieges and good for softening up the enemy in field battles. Generally, will kill anywhere between 10% and 15% before running out of ammo, provided that the enemy is not advancing.

7 Pike Militia. To provide frontage and stop the enemy charges. These guys will be the one doing most of the dying so that the better units do not have to.

6 Musketeers. The main killers. The rest of the army is built around protecting and supporting these guys.

2 Dismounted Broken Lances. In case if things get down to serious melee combat, these guys will provide the muscle.

2 Famiglia Ducale. A very fine unit of heavy cavalry, used in the typical heavy cavalry fashion.

1 General.


This kind of army is optimal for both field battles and for taking cities.

In the field: Pikes form a thin (yes, thin, 3-man deep) bow-shaped frontline. No defensive mode. Spearwall ON. DBLs along with Famiglia Ducale sit on the flanks behind the pikes, general is in the back near Artillery. Musketeers are in the center, in front of the pikes in 3-man deep formation with Skirmish and Fire at Will enabled.

The battle: if the enemy is not advancing then they have already lost the battle. Pound them with the artillery first, until the culverins have exhausted all their ammo, concentrating primarily on the enemy artillery. If the enemy have no artillery, just aim for the centermost unit in their formation. Afterwards, advance your entire formation within the range of the musketeers. Wait until the enemy is dead or routing. Victory.

Usually however, the enemy *will* advance, making the battle quite different. Still, begin with the artillery by setting them to Fire at Will. Let the culverins take a few potshots until the first enemy units get within the range of your muskets. Now it's time to stop the artillery. Musketeers will have time to fire a few shots before the enemy closes in. They'll skirmish out of harm's way on their own, so there's no need to micromanage them. Instead, select your pikes. Remember, you left the pikes with defensive mode off. Keep the defensive mode off until 3-4 seconds before the enemy closes in, then let the pikes quickly toggle the defensive mode. The enemy charge stops cold. Yes, pikes are bugged, but they still beautifully stop any charge, be it from infantry or cavalry. If the enemy hit you with mostly heavy horse, then you basically do nothing and let them impale themselves on your spearwall until they are all dead. If you got hit with infantry, then you must act very quickly, since pikes do not do well at all vs swordsmen.
This is where Dism. Broken Lances and Famiglia Ducale come into play: hit the enemy infantry with Broken Lances in the flanks, while the famiglia DUcale rides out, reforms and hits the enemy straight in the back. This is usually enough to get them to rout. Once the rout began, I normally do not give chase. Instead, I bring the musketeers back from behind the spearwall and shoot the routing enemy to bits. Once again, Victory.

Taking cities is generally not a problem either, since when faced with artillery the enemy always abandons the walls and moves all its forces to the center. It will *keep* its forces there until the gates have been breached. This give you enough time to flood the gate area with Pikes and put your musketeers on the walls. Once the enemy come back for a counterattack, they will be met with the sea of pikes in the streets (deep pikes are nothing to sneer at) and a hail of lead coming from the walls. Repeat until the enemy is no longer counterattacking (which usually means that 90% of enemy soldiers are dead).

Conclusion:

Milan really has it good. All its units come from cities, they are easy to replace and reasonable in maintenance. I find having to mix Castle and City units to be a logistical nightmare which Milan can easily avoid. This type of army is not without its weaknesses of course. Taking Castles defended by 10+ units of heavy infantry will be difficult. In the field, this kind of army will have trouble against a force of 20 heavy horse archers (like Vardariotai), but overall it works very well. A word of warning though, this army does terrribly in autocalc, because the A.I. does not value city units anywhere near as high as castle units. As a sideffect of that, the A.I. will often charge my 1600 man army with a force of 900-1000 castle units fully expecting to win and ending up in a crushing defeat. Overall, this strategy of course is not restricted to Milan, but imho Milan does it better than anyone else.

Maltz
06-14-2009, 03:55
Here are my starting moves on VH/VH. By turn 17 I have 10 regions and a good outlook for conquest.

Alliance: Ally with Venice, HRE, then the Pope - pretty much the standard "ally with everyone" to sell alliance, trade rights, and maps. I skipped Scotland, Poland, Turks, Moors, Egypt and Portugal to avoid having to cancel alliance later.

Conquest order:

(1) Take Fluorence, then the two islands. (army 1)
(2) Assassinate 2 Sicily family members. Take southern Italy. (army 1)
(3a) Assassinate Pope to get high Pope rating from election. Call crusade on Tunis. Start counter-attacking Moors. (army 1)
(3b) Assassinate 4 Venice family members. Take Venice (army 2).
(4) Assassinate 3 HRE family members. Take Bologna. (army 2)

Italy united! (except Rome, of course)
Reputation: Reliable
Overall ranking: 1st
Military ranking: 1st

I was invaded twice:

At turn 4 or so, Sicily tried to invade me with 8 units. I blocked its advance with my ships first, then trapped their ship in between the two islands when it was foolish enough to end its turn there. No more threat!

At turn 7 or so, Moors was ready to invade me from the sea. Sunk their troop-carrying ships. After losing the castle along Northern Africa, Moors then allied with my ally France to force a truce. When I attack Moors again, France broke our alliance - we know who is coming down next with Moors!

Milan's strength:
(1) Controls the Pope (by assassination). I called crusade on Turn 9 (and made it on Turn 11).
(2) Very good family members with maturing sons.
(3) Very cheap and useful spear militia (almost as good as merc spearmen). Along with Merc crossbowmen and mailed knights from islands, initial conquests were very easy.

oz_wwjd
06-23-2009, 02:55
Once the gunpowder becomes available, Milan is capable of fielding the most cost effective armies compared to any other faction.

I've had a gunpowder army also work well with the russians ,although I had to resort to hiring Landsknecht pikemen,as my vanilla pikemen weren't doing so well. I also added a few merc german knights,and when my mortal enemy Poland decided to mass-calvary rush me,the calv that actually survived the hail of lead,routed extremely quicky when they hit my wall of pikes at a gallop.

dzidek
05-10-2010, 10:45
Playing Milan is so easy, it's almost boring :)

I never made a castle in my Milan campaign. The only ones i have are in Africa, as large lands require cavalry armies that move faster then foot ones.

In Europe i have 100% cities with some of them concentrated on unit production.

You don't even need castles for cavalry. Italian cavalry militia with upgraded armour is all you need in the early years. Then you get Broken Lances and Familia Ducale.
The spear militia is great and the crossbow units even better, after gunpowder you get musketters.

Iberia Auxilia
07-03-2010, 07:00
I saw some arguments about castles and cities for Italian militia and castle combat units. For me I prefer to have at least one castle on the land. I usually convert Florence into a castle and it makes you feel secure by having a castle near your capital. And you can easily handle any invasions from both HRE and Hungary or other eastern factions. And dismounted feudal knights should not be underestimated. They have very good morale, good stamina, and can hold the line as second line troops. I usually use Armored sergeants as screening troops for absorbing cavalry charges and preventing the devastating charges into dis. feudal knights. Man at arms, should be used as cheap troops when you lose one battle after another and you are relatively poor. I like dis. feudal knights more. If you got Tunis, you are likely to get Knights Hospitallers too. Don't underestimate order knights. And swordsmen guild are available only to castles with them you can equip your militia units with better spears and swords. For Famiglia Ducale and Broken lances, they should be used aganist swordsmen. And feudal knights should be used against archers and xbows as they have Shield armour and are better than shield bearing man-at-arms. Milan have its G crossbow militia and G xbow as unique units. They don't have any better units than normal medieval units like feudal knights in castles. But these castle armies will hold your lines when you are outnumbered even 2: 5. I won a heroic victory using my feudal army which have besiege Meskersh ( a city in north africa, I know a wrong spelling) and have won another victory against Spanish invading force and again won 2 full stack Spanish army with 2: 5 odds!!! In conclusion, don't underestimate the Feudal armies and City/ Castle mutuality is still needed for Milan.

Aggressor
08-06-2010, 10:27
Im well into my campaign as Milan now H/VH (some 100 turns or so) and my general advice would be the following:

1) Be aggressive from the start. Purchase Bologna from HRE, take Florence and attack Venice (usually you'll find for some reason they move their army out of Venice and leave you with easy pickings). Then get men on boats and take the two island provinces of Ajaccio and Cagliari to the west.

2) My next step was to build up my towns and to build up my defences. Because of Milan's position they can be a very good defensive faction, I set up forts at each choke point into my empire in the mountains to the north of Milan.

3) Get 5 or 6 diplomats on the go, send them out to every faction on the map asking for trade rights, I asked for alliances with Poland, Denmark, Spain, Russia & Portugal.

4) At some point Sicily will probably attack you, when the do, go on the offensive and capture Naples and Palermo. Youll probably find that they have taken Tunis & Tripoli to the South. Once you have taken these, take an army to the bottom left of the map and take Timbuktu, this province has 5 or 6 very rich trading materials.

5) I then set off east and took out Venice along the coast from Zagreb and all the way down to Corinth which was owned by the Byzantines. I also took the two island provinces of Iraklion & Rhodes before pushing north and taking Thessalonica & eventually Constatinople. By this point the world is your oyster. You can either push north towards Hungary, east to the Byzantines and The Turks or head West to France.

6) Concentrate on upgrading your towns, especially the towns near Milan as Venice, Genoa etc are excellent cities for making money, im easily making 30,000 florins per turn.

7) In terms of strategy for the battlefield. Milan are an excellent force in general. The one unit you will want are Genoese Crossbowmen, make sure you have these guys in every single one of your armies. Along with Spearmen, Men at arms and Feudal Knights and horses flanking this faction really does take some beating.

FORZA MILAN!!!