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GeneralHankerchief
11-16-2006, 22:37
It's baaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!!! :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: :rifle: :rifle: :rifle: :smoking:

The original Mafia game is here once again in its newest installment! Everybody cower in your rooms!

Basic rules for those who have never played Mafia before

The game takes place in the kingdom (village?) of Peace and Love, the Frontroom. Everyone participating is a villager, but two of them are secretly working for the mafia. It is the mafia's goal to kill everyone in the town aside from themselves.

However, the villagers aren't powerless against this threat. They can democratically execute one person every time people are killed. Also, there is a Detective secretly working to expose the mafia. The mafia should be incredibly wary of this person, as he can (and has) singlehandedly ruin the game for the mafia.

Each member of the mafia PMs me after every execution, with the name of the user they want to kill, along with the method of how they are killed. At the same time, the Detective PMs me with the name of a user they wish to "investigate." I tell the Detective whether that person is innocent or not.

After the kills have been posted, the villagers vote for who they think is guilty. After 24 hours (give or take) the person with the most votes is executed.

Be careful, for if you don't vote then certain divine powers shall remove you from the game.

Rules of my version

Two mafiosi, one Detective. The mafia can kill two people per round, and when one is dead then the remaining gets to kill two a round.

You can vote for a person with any reason you like. Be aware though, that a dumb reason will cast suspicion on you. Voting "abstain" is allowed, however "no lynch" is NOT.

Speculation from the dead is allowed. You just can't vote however.

When you vote, it must be done like this:

Vote: General Hankerchief

If you wish to change your vote, a separate post must be made and you must post like this:

Unvote: General Hankerchief

Vote: John Smith

Forwarded PMs can be used to help out your case, however, screenshots can not (new rule).

Wrath of God will be used, but there won't be a strict rule on using it. Basically, if I don't think you're active enough, you're gone.

Kills will not be in the original form; I will edit them to make them more coherent unless the mafioso prefers that they remain in the original form.

From a role-playing perspective, none of the other games happened. Please try to start fresh, it makes it more fun for everyone.

Short short version of rules for those who have played my games before:

Everything's the same, except now no screenshots are allowed.

Sign-ups will be open for a few days. Post here if you want to play. Please tell all of your friends. This is the simplest game of Mafia currently offered, so if you've been lurking, now would be a good time to play!

Good luck, play nice (optional :tongue:), try to stay alive, and most of all, have fun!! I look forward to another enjoyable game. :2thumbsup:

UltraWar
11-16-2006, 23:01
Sign me up

Seamus Fermanagh
11-16-2006, 23:11
I'm in.

Pannonian
11-16-2006, 23:11
Add me.

Kagemusha
11-16-2006, 23:19
Im in!:bow:

Seamus Fermanagh
11-16-2006, 23:30
....threads been open for minutes and no Kokjiro?:inquisitive:

Suspicious....

Vote: Sasaki

Craterus
11-16-2006, 23:30
Yes, I'd like to be involved as well please.

Xiahou
11-16-2006, 23:31
In like Flynn. :2thumbsup:

Silver Rusher
11-16-2006, 23:34
Yeehaw!

Let the master of wrongness participate.

Don Corleone
11-17-2006, 00:11
Count me in.

Sir Moody
11-17-2006, 00:28
im in

AggonyDuck
11-17-2006, 00:39
Sign me up. :yes:

Crazed Rabbit
11-17-2006, 00:55
I'm in.

Crazed Rabbit
EDIT: My activity may be somewhat sparse during the next week, though I should have daily computer access.

Ignoramus
11-17-2006, 00:56
Count me in.

Proletariat
11-17-2006, 01:15
In!

GeneralHankerchief
11-17-2006, 01:47
Btw, a new "realism system" will be put in place regarding the PMs sent to me.

Full details will only be given to the mafiosi and the Detective, but the objective is to make the game fairer.

Csargo
11-17-2006, 02:25
In.

Reenk Roink
11-17-2006, 02:26
I put in my application...










































































Courteously






























































:bow:

Evil_Maniac From Mars
11-17-2006, 03:51
Sign me up General. :2thumbsup:

Sasaki Kojiro
11-17-2006, 04:15
in!

Lord Winter
11-17-2006, 04:58
I'm in

Sasaki Kojiro
11-17-2006, 05:02
....threads been open for minutes and no Kokjiro?:inquisitive:

Suspicious....

Vote: Sasaki

Seamus doesn't usually misspell things...perhaps your nervous in your new role as MAFIOSO? How can it be anything but so?

Vote:Reenk Roink

Kommodus
11-17-2006, 06:24
In! In! Iiiiiiiin!!! :2thumbsup:

Zalmoxis
11-17-2006, 06:37
I'll join.

Dutch_guy
11-17-2006, 10:05
Yeah, sign me up.

:balloon2:

Banquo's Ghost
11-17-2006, 10:15
Pannonian convinced me to put my name in the hat.

*practices swinging from a tree*

Divine Wind
11-17-2006, 12:06
Im in :yes:

Sigurd
11-17-2006, 12:56
I am in...

doc_bean
11-17-2006, 13:28
In !

Husar
11-17-2006, 15:25
Inside...:juggle2:

Masy
11-17-2006, 19:48
Moi also please.

Csargo
11-18-2006, 04:10
28 people signed up so far! Should be a good game.

GeneralHankerchief
11-18-2006, 05:08
28 people signed up so far! Should be a good game.

Agreed. But if this is going to beat Godfather 2's post count we need more. :yes:

discovery1
11-18-2006, 05:19
Seamus doesn't usually misspell things...perhaps your nervous in your new role as MAFIOSO? How can it be anything but so?

Vote:Reenk Roink

What does RR have to do with Seamus?


I'm in.

Csargo
11-18-2006, 05:28
Welcome Disco that makes 29.

Where's Sasaki? He's gotta be guilty he's not posting enough.

Csargo
11-18-2006, 05:35
Now I have to think up a good name for my game since it's up next.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-18-2006, 05:41
What does RR have to do with Seamus?


I'm in.

I had to scroll down for ages.

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See? Isn't that annoying?

Csargo
11-18-2006, 05:45
Nah this is more annoying

Edited to remove annoyance

Crazed Rabbit
11-18-2006, 08:32
Vote: Csar, Reenk, and Sasaki.

Crazed Rabbit

Csargo
11-18-2006, 08:42
Vote: Csar, Reenk, and Sasaki.

Crazed Rabbit

Are you threatening me? ARE YOU THREATENING ME????????:shocked:

Silver Rusher
11-18-2006, 11:21
Agreed. But if this is going to beat Godfather 2's post count we need more. :yes:
I don't know about that, I only had about 28 members. Yes, I managed to achieve that spectacular post count with only that number. :yes:

Hepcat
11-18-2006, 12:21
I will give it a go, if it is still open.
Looks like fun.

Drisos
11-18-2006, 22:22
me too :coffeenews:

GeneralHankerchief
11-18-2006, 23:14
24 hours until signups close.

Csargo
11-18-2006, 23:17
31 now I think. Should be a good game

Death Match
11-19-2006, 00:26
YES! I made it!

I am IN and will be active and following rules as stated.

The Spartan (Returns)
11-19-2006, 20:46
REAL diviness joins. The Grace of God is with the villagers.

Drisos
11-19-2006, 21:46
Exciting! Another chance to get my first run as mafia... I just hope I come out of the hat for once. :balloon2: :egypt:

The Spartan (Returns)
11-19-2006, 21:51
you are dead.

Drisos
11-19-2006, 21:54
you are dead.

is that meant to me? :dizzy2: what are you talking about?:dizzy2:

The Spartan (Returns)
11-19-2006, 21:59
yes you.
you wanna be mafia eh?

GeneralHankerchief
11-20-2006, 00:06
Sign-ups are now closed.

I will now randomly determine the mafia and Detective, and contact them. Watch this space.

UPDATE: Mafia and Detective have been contacted. If you didn't receive a PM, you're just a normal villager. Sorry.

Here is the status list. Mafia/Detective, if you could please PM me your first selections.

Still alive:
UltraWar
Seamus Fermanagh
Pannonian
Kagemusha
Craterus
Xiahou
Silver Rusher
Don Corleone
Sir Moody
AggonyDuck
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Proletariat
Csar
Reenk Roink
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Sasaki Kojiro
Destroyer of Hope
Kommodus
Zalmoxis
Dutch_guy
Banquo's Ghost
Divine Wind
Sigurd Fafnesbane
doc_bean
Husar
Masy
discovery1
Hepcat
Drisos
theRTWGuru
God's Grace

Good luck, everybody. :2thumbsup:

Csargo
11-20-2006, 04:25
I think this is the biggest Mafia game to date.

Sigurd
11-20-2006, 23:09
Where is the pre-game chatter?
The little funny attacks on eachother?
...
The.. I am mafia and want to tell everybody but can't, so I just blabber and give myself away anyway.

:laugh4:

shouldn't this game have started already? :sweatdrop:

AggonyDuck
11-20-2006, 23:37
I am mafia

Hah! I knew it! Lynch him! :smash:

Sigurd
11-20-2006, 23:48
Hah! I knew it! Lynch him! :smash:
Damn.. I knew I should have kept my peace.

GeneralHankerchief
11-21-2006, 00:03
Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet. Due to Daylight Savings Time going into effect, day broke much earlier than in the summer, and as such many people were still sleeping soundly, ignoring the glorious sunrise that signified the start of another beautiful day in the Kingdom of Peace and Love.

One of those people who was sleeping soundly was UltraWar, who was dreaming of daffodils and lollipops. However, his sweet dreams were soon rudely interrupted by his bedroom door slamming open.

A man walked in through the door. The light of the rising sun illuminated enough of the strange man's silhouette for Ultra to make out a wide brimmed hat with grapes all around it.

Still half-asleep but at the same time wide awake with fright, Ultra managed to stammer a question out.

"W-w-wh... who are you?"

"Why hello UltraWar," the strange man said in a soft evil voice, "you have been selected..."

Ultra was now wide awake. "For what?" he asked as he quite conspicuously wet his bed.

The strange man caught note of this and smirked while he plucked a grape from his hat and popped it in his mouth: "Clean yourself off, then we'll talk."

"I-I w-want n-no part in this..." Ultra said, his voice quivering.

The strange man without warning suddenly exploded: "THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU FRONTROOM VILLAGERS! SO DAMN SELFISH! ALWAYS ABOUT YOU!"

His voice calmed back to the evil soft one: "But from now on, it won't be about you anymore. It is time for the rightful owner of the Frontroom to reclaim his domain."

...

Later that day, Sir Moody and a gang of friends were walking down the street, not a care in the world. They knew nothing of the UltraWar situation. After all, this was the Frontroom. The Kingdom of Peace and Love! Crime was unheard of in these parts!

Anyways, they were walking down the street, not a care in the world. They were laughing, talking, and eating. The birds were chriping above them. But then, suddenly, they all flew away.

Behind them, a motor roared. A black unmarked car was speeding down the road. He had obviously removed the muffler to make the car louder. Sir Moody's gang cheered. This guy was obviously cool.

Somebody leaned out the window. He was dressed impeccably, in an unruffled suit with a black tie. The man had sunglasses on. Then something else leaned out of the window... the man's hands, holding onto a tommy gun!

Fire sprayed from the gun as the car roared by. Sir Moody was down, the victim of a drive-by shooting. One of his friends checked for a pulse, but there was none. He was gone.

Later that day, in the town square, Chief of Police Beirut had gathered the villagers in order to make an announcement.

"Gentlemen," he began, "it seems as if disaster has struck our town. Sir Moody has been shot by a drive-by killer."

Everyone gasped.

"Silence," Beirut said. "I'm not done. UltraWar has also been found dead in his home. He was disemboweled and choked to death with his own intestines. A business card was left at the murder site. Embossed on it were the words 'The Wanax' with a grape watermark behind it. Does anybody have any information on this?"

Everybody was silent.

Beirut sighed. "That's what I thought. Okay, we're going to have to do this the hard way. It is obvious that our town is under attack from the mafia, and that they have infiltrated our ranks. I trust your judgement enough to weed out these monsters. So you will vote for who you think is guilty. Whoever has the most votes will be executed. Decapitated by saw, to be more specific. So get voting!"

Villagers, now is your time. You must vote for whoever you think killed UltraWar and Sir Moody. You have about 24 hours. Good luck.

AggonyDuck
11-21-2006, 00:08
Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

He admitted being mafia a couple posts earlier, so I am definately voting for him. :smash:

Kagemusha
11-21-2006, 00:09
And im bandwagoning shamelesly.Sigurd is Mafia and we all know that!Vote Sigurd

Evil_Maniac From Mars
11-21-2006, 00:53
Vote: Abstain


No sense lynching an innocent this early.

Sigurd
11-21-2006, 01:10
I see my Suomalaisen Ystävän are after me... mitä kuuluu?
Anteeksi, but you are going for the wrong fellar.

I am going to bed and I want to see those votes gone by the time I get up tomorrow.
Jumalan Rauha and hyvää yötä

Sir Moody
11-21-2006, 01:17
... im always the mafia bait ...

Hepcat
11-21-2006, 01:19
I agree may as well get the people who ask for it.

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

Reenk Roink
11-21-2006, 01:30
No sense lynching an innocent this early.

Precisely my thought as well. Reenkmaistro will definitely need more clues before he utilizes his vote as a responsible villager. He abstains, courteously... :bow:

Pannonian
11-21-2006, 01:50
It's the first round, so I might as well go with

"Eeny, Meany, miny, mo..."

Vote: Silver Rusher.

Husar
11-21-2006, 01:54
Precisely my thought as well. Reenkmaistro will definitely need more clues before he utilizes his vote as a responsible villager. He abstains, courteously... :bow:
I think this is a very good idea.

Vote: Abstain

Csargo
11-21-2006, 02:20
Precisely my thought as well. Csarmaistro will definitely need more clues before he utilizes his vote as a responsible villager. He abstains, courteously... :bow:

Ignoramus
11-21-2006, 02:43
It is better to kill than to abstain.

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

Proletariat
11-21-2006, 02:52
Oh, so no one else is gonna go ahead and say it? Fine. Vote: Sasaki

Seamus Fermanagh
11-21-2006, 02:53
It's the first round, so I might as well go with

"Eeny, Meany, miny, mo..."

Vote: Silver Rusher.

I agree that there is no real rationale for a vote at this stage, but I will therefore:

Vote: Abstain


@ Reenk: "Someone Oh-pen up a window!" I may have to get that thing on Netflix and watch it a few dozen times so that the pain will go away.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-21-2006, 03:04
Oh, so no one else is gonna go ahead and say it? Fine. Vote: Sasaki

I' would've thought that Csar would kick this off....

Kommodus
11-21-2006, 04:21
Hm, it looks like at least one of the mafia (i.e. UltraWar's killer) is a veteran player. The portrayal of the mafioso is of someone who is carrying out a long-term agenda, rather than simple mindless murders. In other words, he's more misguided than purely evil.

The two players who have done that previously are myself and Crazed Rabbit. So who's trying to frame us?

Hm... vote: Pannonian

You're probably innocent and all, but you know how the first round goes. Heck, your vote was blatantly random. This is just until more compelling evidence is available.

Xiahou
11-21-2006, 04:32
Precisely my thought as well. Reenkmaistro will definitely need more clues before he utilizes his vote as a responsible villager. He abstains, courteously... :bow:
Oh geez... :wall:

Vote: Reenk

Csargo
11-21-2006, 04:37
I' would've thought that Csar would kick this off....

I was too busy picking on Reenk you see.:beam:

I'm not that evil though he hasn't even posted yet. After that though it's a free for all.:mean:

I'm coming for you Sasaki :inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 07:15
Sigurd is a good player, we want to keep him around because chances are he's townie and can help us find mafia.

AggonyDuck
Kagemusha
Hepcat
Ignoramus

I would not be at all surprised to see one of the mafia on that list.

Vote:Hepcat

Ignoramus
11-21-2006, 07:27
Why is that, Sasaki?

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 07:30
Why is that, Sasaki?


The mafia want to lynch someone: Sigurd wagon is biggest
The mafia want to lynch a good player so he isn't proven innocent: Sigurd is good

That's two strikes against you.

Ignoramus
11-21-2006, 07:36
Hmmm, why then are you desirous of lynching someone?

Csargo
11-21-2006, 07:50
Sigurd is a good player, we want to keep him around because chances are he's townie and can help us find mafia.

AggonyDuck
Kagemusha
Hepcat
Ignoramus

I would not be at all surprised to see one of the mafia on that list.

Vote:Hepcat

I doubt experienced players like Kage and AggonyDuck would do that. I don't think it's Ignoramus either so I'm going with Hepcat.

Unvote:Abstain
Vote:Hepcat

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 08:06
Hmmm, why then are you desirous of lynching someone?

I'm not. I'm desirous of lynching mafia.

Ignoramus
11-21-2006, 08:15
So am I, and Sigurd may well be mafia.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 08:18
So am I, and Sigurd may well be mafia.

No there's no evidence for that. You jumped on the wagon that's all. Judging from Sigurd's behavior last game he was probably acting a little weird to see what effect he got.

AggonyDuck
11-21-2006, 09:26
Damn, I was just trying to be a bit funny and ended up starting a bandwagon.


Unvote: Sigurd Fafnesbane
Vote: Reenk Roink (I got a bone to pick with him)

Banquo's Ghost
11-21-2006, 09:47
Gentlemen, we need to think, not to blindly accuse or sit on our hands whilst the demons strike us down.

We have few clues, 'tis true, but they may be telling.

The Wanax appears to be a reference to a Mycenaen priest-king, or a general Homeric word for king - or, with the grape references, there is a possibility that it links to a Maori place name Wanak/Wanaka where grapes are grown.

Given the apparent megalomania of the first killer in his desire to usurp the Frontroom, I tend towards the former. Better informed villagers than I may have some further insights into the person who would be conversant in Mycenaen tradition.

Thus to satisfy myself, I shall go with my second theory, and accuse the New Zealander amongst us:

Vote: Hepcat

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 10:25
Hmm oh man Banquo is really suspicious. Voting based on a "clue" from the kill description? Often it's only the mafia who know what the clue is supposed to be, they are the ones who left it there after all. A mafioso who'd played the last few games probably wouldn't do that but Banquo is fairly new (not since mafia II?). What's more, he put's the final vote on someone.

I'm still watching Hepcat and Ignoramus but I'm going to change my vote to:

Unvote: Hepcat

Vote:Banquo's Ghost

Pannonian
11-21-2006, 11:06
Hm, it looks like at least one of the mafia (i.e. UltraWar's killer) is a veteran player. The portrayal of the mafioso is of someone who is carrying out a long-term agenda, rather than simple mindless murders. In other words, he's more misguided than purely evil.

The two players who have done that previously are myself and Crazed Rabbit. So who's trying to frame us?

I remember your plot from Mafia 3, but which game was CR a mafioso in? I tend only to closely follow the GH games (and skim through the Godfathers), so I'm not as familiar with the players' history.



Hm... vote: Pannonian

You're probably innocent and all, but you know how the first round goes. Heck, your vote was blatantly random. This is just until more compelling evidence is available.
No worry. I remember GH chuckling at how poor Banquo (a noob like myself) got lynched in the first round of Mafia 3 for no particular reason, with his explanation that the first round only exists to get the game moving. Methods may have changed since, but, as I said, I tend only to follow the GH games, and you put an early stop to Mafia 4 without giving much in the way of discussion.

Banquo's Ghost
11-21-2006, 11:10
Ah, I'm beginning to get this game now.

Being an unthinking finger-pointer is the only way to prove one's innocence. Rational analysis clearly makes one a criminal because criminals know stuff.

Unless that's what the Mafia want you to think. Sasaki trying to kick the chocks away from a bandwagon for what purpose?

Yet I am a rational man, and have no reason to change my vote to Sasaki - for now.

Other villagers may see it differently. :inquisitive:

Death Match
11-21-2006, 11:21
I can't afford killing random villagers...

Vote:Abstain

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 11:26
Ah, I'm beginning to get this game now.

Being an unthinking finger-pointer is the only way to prove one's innocence. Rational analysis clearly makes one a criminal because criminals know stuff.

Unless that's what the Mafia want you to think. Sasaki trying to kick the chocks away from a bandwagon for what purpose?

Yet I am a rational man, and have no reason to change my vote to Sasaki - for now.

Other villagers may see it differently. :inquisitive:

What was irrational or unthinking about my post?

Banquo's Ghost
11-21-2006, 12:06
What was irrational or unthinking about my post?

What was rational?

You accused me of being a mafioso because I voted based on a clue, rather than randomly or with a bandwagon - apparently because the mafia know the clue.

Of course, were I a mafioso, it would be sensible of me to post what I knew to be the key to my identity. Not. An experienced mafioso apparently wouldn't do that, but I, being a noob, would. :dizzy2:

Not really the finest line of logical reasoning, is it?

Unless of course, you are trying to draw attention away from yourself. Now that would be rational.

:laugh4:

doc_bean
11-21-2006, 12:27
Vote: Silver Rusher

He got me lynched last game and I was innocent (wtf ?) :jester:

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 12:38
What was rational?

You accused me of being a mafioso because I voted based on a clue, rather than randomly or with a bandwagon - apparently because the mafia know the clue.

Of course, were I a mafioso, it would be sensible of me to post what I knew to be the key to my identity. Not. An experienced mafioso apparently wouldn't do that, but I, being a noob, would. :dizzy2:

Not really the finest line of logical reasoning, is it?

Unless of course, you are trying to draw attention away from yourself. Now that would be rational.

:laugh4:

Accusing someone doesn't draw attention away from yourself when you aren't under suspicion. Your attempt to pin suspicion on me has become my main reason for suspecting you...you are in fact trying to draw attention away from yourself.


And yes, it was rational. Mafia leave false clues in kill write ups. Anything as specific as "Wenax" has got to be a false plant. They do this to frame somebody or some group. An overeager mafioso could become impatient with no one picking up on the "clue" and use it to vote. It's quite a coincidence that the person you chose to have this clue point to is now in the lead as a result of your vote.

Now obviously there's no way of knowing whether you are a townie suckered into a mafia trap, or an overeager mafioso. At this stage it's worth voting someone if something makes it 20% more likely they are mafia. As I said before, your immediate attempt to cast suspicion on me makes your considerably more suspicious.

Banquo's Ghost
11-21-2006, 12:49
Accusing someone doesn't draw attention away from yourself when you aren't under suspicion. Your attempt to pin suspicion on me has become my main reason for suspecting you...you are in fact trying to draw attention away from yourself.


And yes, it was rational. Mafia leave false clues in kill write ups. Anything as specific as "Wenax" has got to be a false plant. They do this to frame somebody or some group. An overeager mafioso could become impatient with no one picking up on the "clue" and use it to vote. It's quite a coincidence that the person you chose to have this clue point to is now in the lead as a result of your vote.

Now obviously there's no way of knowing whether you are a townie suckered into a mafia trap, or an overeager mafioso. At this stage it's worth voting someone if something makes it 20% more likely they are mafia. As I said before, your immediate attempt to cast suspicion on me makes your considerably more suspicious.

As I noted before, the sensible thing (especially in the early stages) for the mafia to do is to keep a low profile. Fit in with the crowd. No 20% likelihood. The clues, planted or otherwise, serve no purpose at this first stage - there's too much randomness - but their inclusion may offer some guidance on the traps being laid, since people are rarely completely uninfluenced by their education/culture.

If I was mafia, it would be sensible for me to just post a vote for a few rounds. The quiet ones rarely come into the frame till much later. Or pick up on someone who was doing some thinking and change my vote.

Maybe your accomplice got too many votes for comfort? :inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 12:52
As I noted before, the sensible thing (especially in the early stages) for the mafia to do is to keep a low profile. Fit in with the crowd. The clues, planted or otherwise, serve no purpose at this first stage - there's too much randomness - but their inclusion may offer some guidance on the traps being laid, since people are rarely completely uninfluenced by their education/culture.

If I was mafia, it would be sensible for me to just post a vote for a few rounds. The quiet ones rarely come into the frame till much later. Or pick up on someone who was doing some thinking and change my vote.

No it wouldn't. Only posting a vote will often come back to bite you in later rounds.


Maybe your accomplice got too many votes for comfort? :inquisitive:

Who are you referring to?

Banquo's Ghost
11-21-2006, 12:56
No it wouldn't. Only posting a vote will often come back to bite you in later rounds.

Ah, but one would have made it to the later rounds, when, by your own admission, the traps would have been laid.


Who are you referring to?

Aha! So you don't deny having an accomplice?

:wink3:

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 13:06
Ah, but one would have made it to the later rounds, when, by your own admission, the traps would have been laid.

What traps?




Aha! So you don't deny having an accomplice?

:wink3:

Who are you referring to? Don't try and wiggle out of this.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-21-2006, 13:48
Vote Summary (thus far):

19 = No vote as yet

5 = Abstain

3 = Sigurd Fafnesbane

2 = Hepcat, Silver Rusher, Reenk Roink

1 = Banquo's Ghost, Pannonian, Sasaki Kojiro

2 = Dead


Sigurd is currently facing the saw on a 10% plurality! We need to get some more people voting/posting.

Kagemusha
11-21-2006, 14:14
I think il undo the deed,while Sigurd is dangerous and should be put under the knife.~;) Unvote Sigurd, vote Pannonian.There are many of you guys in stalemate there.Better start telling us why you are innocent.:whip:

Sigurd
11-21-2006, 14:24
Vote Summary (thus far):

19 = No vote as yet

5 = Abstain

3 = Sigurd Fafnesbane

2 = Hepcat, Silver Rusher, Reenk Roink

1 = Banquo's Ghost, Pannonian, Sasaki Kojiro

2 = Dead


Sigurd is currently facing the saw on a 10% plurality! We need to get some more people voting/posting.

Woah there...
I need to make a vote to get me in the clear.

Sasaki and BG are making a little white noise here.
But Sasaki's first vote is actually a good one.

Even if we take out the Wanax reference (which by the way is a good red herring) Hepcat did jump the bandwagon rather quickly.
Considering the thumb of rule that ‘third on the bandwagon is guilty’ I am inclined to vote Hepcat. AggonyDuck and Kage I believe was trying to be funny.. and yeah HAHA, good one guys. I am also voting Hepcat to make a tie in the votes so far.

Vote:Hepcat

[edit]: I guess I spent a little time in my editor and Kage put an unvote on me.
My vote still stands.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-21-2006, 15:08
Adjusted Vote Count (think I messed up the last one except for Siggy's total)

Hepcat = 3 (Banquo, Csar, Sigurd)

Pannonian = 2 (Kagemusha, Kommodus)

Sigurd = 2 (Hepcat, Ignoramus)

Silver = 2 (Doc, Pannonian)

Reenk = 2 (Ag-Duck, X-man)

Banquo = 1 (Sasaki)

Sasaki = 1 (Prole)

Abstain = 5 (EMFM, Husar, Reenk, Seamus, trtwguru)

No Vote = 12 (Craterus, C-Rabbit, Destro, Disco, DivWin, Don C, Drisos, Dutch, Grace, Masy, Silver, Zal')

That should be complete as of 9am EST

Kommodus
11-21-2006, 15:23
I remember your plot from Mafia 3, but which game was CR a mafioso in? I tend only to closely follow the GH games (and skim through the Godfathers), so I'm not as familiar with the players' history.

Crazed Rabbit started to execute a plot as the serial killer in Gotta Have More Mafia, a game by Sasaki. (In fact, I was the first and only victim of his plan.) He didn't get very far because he attacked several Godfathers, who couldn't be killed during the night.


No worry. I remember GH chuckling at how poor Banquo (a noob like myself) got lynched in the first round of Mafia 3 for no particular reason, with his explanation that the first round only exists to get the game moving. Methods may have changed since, but, as I said, I tend only to follow the GH games, and you put an early stop to Mafia 4 without giving much in the way of discussion.

That's true. The first round is still almost always an essentially random lynching; even I don't have enough information to make a good guess. Nevertheless in games set up like this, it's still in our interest to lynch.

Glad to have you back, BTW. We missed you after Mafia III. :balloon2:

Pannonian
11-21-2006, 15:26
I think il undo the deed,while Sigurd is dangerous and should be put under the knife.~;) Unvote Sigurd, vote Pannonian.There are many of you guys in stalemate there.Better start telling us why you are innocent.:whip:
I'm not quite sure what people can do at this stage to explain why they are innocent, unless there are specific accusations thrown around as with the Banquo-Sasaki dispute. Basically it's the first round, someone has to be executed (as GH said in his Mafia 3 roundup), and I posted a random vote in the absence of anything else. Do you have any better ideas?

Proletariat
11-21-2006, 15:31
I'd rather vote randomly for someone not yet involved.

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Craterus

Dutch_guy
11-21-2006, 16:49
As I noted before, the sensible thing (especially in the early stages) for the mafia to do is to keep a low profile. Fit in with the crowd. No 20% likelihood. The clues, planted or otherwise, serve no purpose at this first stage - there's too much randomness - but their inclusion may offer some guidance on the traps being laid, since people are rarely completely uninfluenced by their education/culture.

If I was mafia, it would be sensible for me to just post a vote for a few rounds. The quiet ones rarely come into the frame till much later. Or pick up on someone who was doing some thinking and change my vote.


This is what the mafia successfully did in the very first Mafia game, it worked that time - but never after that. Since that game, we have learned to involve lurkers by voting for them, or have them WoG[ed]. Also, a mafioso might target lurkers because they have no 'voting record' meaning the mafioso can target such a lurker with relative ease. As you don't confirm major players innocent, and get rid of an annoying towny who probably won't get lynched because of his inactive-ness.

It has been already said, but you shouldn't pay too much attention on the kill messages. They were used as frame methods in Mafia I, but again, we learned and didn't base our lynchings on them in the games to follow - as a mafioso can be completely random in his method, which can result in the lynching of innocents.

Also, casting a vote without a reason almost always makes you look suspicious. One's reasoning is quite important.

:balloon2:

Husar
11-21-2006, 16:53
Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Dutch_guy
Reason:

Also, casting a vote without a reason almost always makes you look suspicious. One's reasoning is quite important.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 17:04
Dutch_guy, I think you need an addendenum to your rule about the posted reason actually making sense ~D

Dutch_guy
11-21-2006, 17:08
Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Dutch_guy
Reason:Also, casting a vote without a reason almost always makes you look suspicious. One's reasoning is quite important.

So, where was it I cast a vote without proper reasoning this game ?

Oh, wait.

I didn't.

:balloon2:

Banquo's Ghost
11-21-2006, 17:12
OK, we have clearly established that I'm the clueless newbie.

I'll sit back for a few rounds and watch the adults play.

:bounce:

Kagemusha
11-21-2006, 17:47
I'm not quite sure what people can do at this stage to explain why they are innocent, unless there are specific accusations thrown around as with the Banquo-Sasaki dispute. Basically it's the first round, someone has to be executed (as GH said in his Mafia 3 roundup), and I posted a random vote in the absence of anything else. Do you have any better ideas?

Thats good enough for now. My philosophy is simple come out on the open or die.:smash: There are now so many players that a Mafia lurking tactic seems pretty easy.Unvote Pannonian, vote Xiahou

GeneralHankerchief
11-21-2006, 18:28
Oh man this is going to be a fun one to tally.

Thanks a bunch to Seamus for giving that list of who voted for who, but I'll most likely double-check anyway.

Crazed Rabbit
11-21-2006, 18:56
Vote : Reenk Roink

Abstaining could be nice cover for a mafia - plus it denies the town of any clues based on voting patterns.


Crazed Rabbit started to execute a plot as the serial killer in Gotta Have More Mafia, a game by Sasaki. (In fact, I was the first and only victim of his plan.) He didn't get very far because he attacked several Godfathers, who couldn't be killed during the night.
Um, no, I killed disco first. But I got stemied by the theif and unkillable godfathers after killing you. Pity, I had this good story ready.

CR

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 19:03
Reenk and hep are tied, someone break it. Vote for hep. Although reenk isn't a terrible choice.

Reenk Roink
11-21-2006, 19:12
Vote : Reenk Roink

What a surprise... :rolleyes:


Abstaining could be nice cover for a mafia

How?


plus it denies the town of any clues based on voting patterns.

No, it shows a clear pattern of abstaining, and when a vote is made by an (courteous) abstainer, more information of value can be gleamed. Besides, there are several other abstainers, but I guess I was just the random selection... :rolleyes:

Justifying a vote on me is impossible to do.

At least Xiahou did not give a reason (as there is no good one) and AggonyDuck is continuing a vendetta (I still can't believe you were the Mafia... that one bullet struck true :grin2:) from a long time ago.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-21-2006, 19:16
Reenk and hep are tied, someone break it. Vote for hep. Although reenk isn't a terrible choice.

Your vote is registered for Banquo. Calling for a tie-break and refusing to do it yourself????

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sasaki

Masy
11-21-2006, 19:30
Vote: Abstain

No suspicions as yet.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 19:50
Your vote is registered for Banquo. Calling for a tie-break and refusing to do it yourself????

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sasaki

I like my vote on Banquo. There is still some time before voting closes. There are still people who haven't voted, I was addressing them. It isn't then end of the world if we go into a tie.

We really need to fix this current trend. If you vote, give a reason. A reason is in the format: You did X, and this makes you more likely to be mafia because...

Seamus's would be an example of "You did X" with the 2nd (most important) part left off.

As is, his post has as much merit as:


You used 4 question marks.

vote Seamus

not a vote btw

Kommodus
11-21-2006, 20:32
Um, no, I killed disco first. But I got stemied by the theif and unkillable godfathers after killing you. Pity, I had this good story ready.

Ah yes, now I remember. I'd forgotten about that.

Hm... looks like at least this time, Reenk is going to have plenty of choices to vote for! :yes:

Husar
11-21-2006, 21:01
We really need to fix this current trend. If you vote, give a reason. A reason is in the format: You did X, and this makes you more likely to be mafia because...
You posted(this is X), and this makes you more likely to be mafia because...you confuse people this way, say some people(I suppose this should be Y then).:inquisitive:

Following this line of thought:

Unvote: Dutch_guy
Vote: Divine Wind

GeneralHankerchief
11-21-2006, 21:11
Btw, this may seem unfair but I would prefer it if we did not go into a tie for this round. You'll see why soon.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-21-2006, 21:12
I like my vote on Banquo. There is still some time before voting closes. There are still people who haven't voted, I was addressing them. It isn't then end of the world if we go into a tie.

We really need to fix this current trend. If you vote, give a reason. A reason is in the format: You did X, and this makes you more likely to be mafia because...

Seamus's would be an example of "You did X" with the 2nd (most important) part left off.

Sasaki:

You are never more annoying than when you make sense.

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Abstain

discovery1
11-21-2006, 21:16
Vote:Everybody but me Do I need to explain why>

Csargo
11-21-2006, 21:19
Vote:Everybody but me Do I need to explain why>

So if you don't wanna die that makes you guilty right?

Unvote:Hepcat
Vote:Disco

Don't count that GH,:beam:

Pannonian
11-21-2006, 21:27
Hepcat and Reenk Roink are tied at 3-3, but Hepcat has actually made a positive vote with reasoning, so Reenk will have to go, unless he changes his vote to non-abstention. With 2 mafiosi and 1 detective, it is better to execute at random in the hope of catching the right man by accident (eg. Disco in Mafia 4) than not execute at all.

Unvote: Silver Rusher
Vote: Reenk Roink

Oh, and GH, tell us after the lynch why it's imperative to avoid a tie.

Banquo's Ghost
11-21-2006, 21:29
I read the excellent FAQ on the Mafia games and a thought struck me.

Since this is a GH game, surely the first round default position for us all should be to vote for Kagemusha, thus invoking the curse onto the Mafia right away?

Reenk Roink
11-21-2006, 21:30
Very well, the bloodthirsty mob has forced my hand. Very sorry Hepcat, but I must vote for you in self preservation. Of course, everybody that has voted for me has not given any good reason to do so (sans AggonyDuck), except the fact that I (and many others) abstain when I see no point in killing somebody.

It makes it a little easier to vote for Hepcat, seeing how he has drawn some (though weak to my standards) valid suspicion.

Vote: Hepcat

Sasaki Kojiro
11-21-2006, 21:30
Btw, this may seem unfair but I would prefer it if we did not go into a tie for this round. You'll see why soon.

It's like 2 1/2 hours. I'll be changing to Hepcat if it's stilled tied then, or sooner if I get too sleepy.


haha, hadn't read this page. It's still tied though right?

Csargo
11-21-2006, 21:36
No Sasaki RR is in the lead with 5 votes to Hepcat's 4

Pannonian
11-21-2006, 21:37
Loathe as I am to lynch a noob in the first round in his first game, Reenk has made a positive vote as I suggested, so I'll change my vote unless Hepcat makes a decent argument before time is up.

Unvote: Reenk Roink
Vote: Hepcat

Reenk Roink
11-21-2006, 21:39
No Sasaki RR is in the lead with 5 votes to Hepcat's 4

Actually it was tied 4-4 (my slanderers were Xiahou, AggonyDuck, Crazed Rabbit, and Pannonian) and now it is 5-3 as Pannonian has switched.

Note: To be honest, I don't think Hepcat is the strongest suspicious person here. Sigurd and Banquo have made good arguments why he could be, but I am thinking that the most suspicious right now are the silent ones...

Csargo
11-21-2006, 21:41
Actually it was tied 4-4 (my slanderers were Xiahou, AggonyDuck, Crazed Rabbit, and Pannonian) and now it is 5-3 as Pannonian has switched.

Oh my bad.:bigcry:

Pannonian
11-21-2006, 21:50
Actually it was tied 4-4 (my slanderers were Xiahou, AggonyDuck, Crazed Rabbit, and Pannonian) and now it is 5-3 as Pannonian has switched.

Note: To be honest, I don't think Hepcat is the strongest suspicious person here. Sigurd and Banquo have made good arguments why he could be, but I am thinking that the most suspicious right now are the silent ones...
However, GH doesn't want a tie, so the choice is between you two, unless someone makes a huge boo boo now that starts a big and rapid bandwagon on them. Personally, I'm surprised Silver Rusher hasn't posted or voted, and his profile doesn't say when he's last on.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-21-2006, 22:10
Adjusted Vote Count as of 4:05 EST [Edit = 4:20 EST]

Hepcat = 5 (Banquo, Csar, Pannonian, Reenk, Sigurd)

Reenk = 3 (Ag-Duck, Crazed Rabbit, X-man)

Sigurd = 2 (Hepcat, Ignoramus)

Banquo = 1 (Sasaki)

Craterus = 1 (Prole)

Discovery = 1 (Seamus)

Divine Wind = 1 (Husar)

Pannonian = 1 (Kommodus)

Silver = 1 (Doc)

Xiahou = 1 (Kagemusha)

Abstain = 3 (EMFM, Masy, trtwguru)

No Vote = 10 (Craterus, Destro, Disco, DivWin, Don C, Drisos, Dutch, Grace, Masy, Silver, Zal')

Seamus Fermanagh
11-21-2006, 22:17
Vote:Everybody but me Do I need to explain why>

~:rolleyes:

"I'm Here" posts add little and should be punished. They are too easy a way to "lurk" while people are getting lynched.


Unvote Abstain:
Vote: Discovery


No need to bandwagon on this one -- but I will keep track of it for future reference.:whip:

GeneralHankerchief
11-21-2006, 23:20
I confirm Seamus' tally.

Less than one hour to go.

Husar
11-21-2006, 23:42
So if Hepcat gets lynched, does that mean I can kill two people next round?

Pannonian
11-21-2006, 23:48
So if Hepcat gets lynched, does that mean I can kill two people next round?
Yes, and it will also mean an early end to the game.

Husar
11-21-2006, 23:51
Yes, and it will also mean an early end to the game.
Really? Why?:inquisitive:

Divine Wind
11-21-2006, 23:53
I want the do gooders, the "Im neutral happy and gay!" crowd gone!

No more tight leather trousers in this village!

Vote: Masy

GAH!

Xiahou
11-22-2006, 00:01
Loathe as I am to lynch a noob in the first round in his first game, Reenk has made a positive vote as I suggested, so I'll change my vote unless Hepcat makes a decent argument before time is up.

Unvote: Reenk Roink
Vote: Hepcat
So he knuckles under to save his skin, and that gets him, a regular abstainer, off the hook? It was a bandwagon vote at that. Sounds like he has a role to protect... mafia perhaps? I'm certainly not going to change my vote just to save my skin- I'll stand on principle.

This isn't to say that I'll never change a vote- I have and likely will do so again, but not without a convincing reason. Seeing as how this is round 1, we're mighty short on convincing reasons.

GeneralHankerchief
11-22-2006, 00:07
Voting over.

Stand by for the execution.

GeneralHankerchief
11-22-2006, 00:26
As sunset fell in the Frontroom, Chief of Police Beirut stood, looking at his fellow villagers. Two of those people were determined to kill everyone in the town. One of them was working fearlessly to save them.

These townspeople clearly had some old grudges that were brought out. A total of eleven villagers had received votes, and the "winner," Hepcat, had received only five. However, Beirut trusted the citizens enough for them to make the right decision.

At least, he hoped he did.

Hepcat was dragged up to the execution platform, for all to see. He looked extremely nervous. Sweating and looking around for some kind of hope, he began the groveling.

"You've got the wrong guy! I didn't do anything! I'm just a normal old villager! Don't kill another innocent person!"

"SILENCE!" The Chief of Police was angry. "Your fate has already been sealed. There is only one question that remains to be answered."

"A-a-and that i-is...?"

All of a sudden Beirut was pleasant. "Would you like to be decapitated by hacksaw or chainsaw?"

"Uh... chainsaw please."

"An excellent choice!" Beirut revved up the chainsaw and soon the job was done.

"Go back to your homes, people. Let's hope we made the right decision." And so they did.

Here is the voting total for Round 1:

Hepcat: 5 (Sigurd Fafnesbane, Csar, Banquo's Ghost, Reenk Roink, Pannonian) :skull:
Reenk Roink: 3 (Xiahou, AggonyDuck, Crazed Rabbit)
Sigurd Fafnesbane: 2 (Hepcat, Ignoramus)
Silver Rusher: 1 (doc_bean)
Craterus: 1 (Proletariat)
Pannonian: 1 (Kommodus)
Banquo's Ghost: 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
Divine Wind: 1 (Husar)
Xiahou: 1 (Kagemusha)
discovery1: 1 (Seamus Fermanagh)
Masy: 1 (Divine Wind)

Abstained: 5 (Evil_Maniac From Mars, Masy, theRTWGuru, discovery1, Dutch_guy)
Didn't vote: 7 (Craterus, Silver Rusher, Don Corleone, Destroyer of Hope, Zalmoxis, Drisos, God's Grace)

~~~~~~~

Still alive:
Seamus Fermanagh
Pannonian
Kagemusha
Craterus
Xiahou
Silver Rusher
Don Corleone
AggonyDuck
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Proletariat
Csar
Reenk Roink
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Sasaki Kojiro
Destroyer of Hope
Kommodus
Zalmoxis
Dutch_guy
Banquo's Ghost
Divine Wind
Sigurd Fafnesbane
doc_bean
Husar
Masy
discovery1
Drisos
theRTWGuru
God's Grace

Killed:
UltraWar
Sir Moody

Executed:
Hepcat

~~~~~~~

PMs please. You'll find out why I didn't want a tie when the next kills are posted.

Reenk Roink
11-22-2006, 00:32
So he knuckles under to save his skin, and that gets him, a regular abstainer, off the hook? It was a bandwagon vote at that. Sounds like he has a role to protect... mafia perhaps? I'm certainly not going to change my vote just to save my skin- I'll stand on principle.

People talk big...then they are unjustly accused...

Just for your information, I have made 3 early exits from the past 3 mafia games, I don't want to always sign up and then not play...

Death Match
11-22-2006, 07:16
I am the detective. I confess.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-22-2006, 07:54
jaysus, what is it with this game, we've had 3 confessions already.

Ignoramus
11-22-2006, 08:57
I am the detective. I confess.

No one will believe you. If you were the detective, you would have learnt your lesson from The Godfather Part 2, and not revealed yourself without some useful evidence.

doc_bean
11-22-2006, 10:20
jaysus, what is it with this game, we've had 3 confessions already.

Husar suggests he's mafia, RTWGuru claims to be the detective, who else ?

Sasaki Kojiro
11-22-2006, 11:21
Sigurd claimed mafia as well.

Hepcat
11-22-2006, 11:24
Oh how lovely, I come home after 6 hours of exams and then work for 4 hours to find that I have been lynched. :laugh4:

Oh well, can't say I expected to last long. Still, round 1 of my first mafia game :embarassed:.

Divine Wind
11-22-2006, 12:21
Its either a cunning Mafia trick...or their just plain idiots. ~;)

Sigurd
11-22-2006, 12:51
Sigurd claimed mafia as well.
That my friend, is a claim taken out of context.

I confess... I am a townie. There.. *sigh* a burden is lifted from my shoulders.

Husar
11-22-2006, 12:52
Its either a cunning Mafia trick...or their just plain idiots. ~;)
You're just mad because I voted for you.~;p

Sigurd
11-22-2006, 12:57
Its either a cunning Mafia trick...or their just plain idiots. ~;)
It actually works... In The Black Hand 2 I repeatedly told the chatters that I was the Godfather. No-one seemed to believe me. :yes:

Seamus Fermanagh
11-22-2006, 13:49
I confess, I have been a sinner.

Hail Mary, full of grace....


[Note: for best results, repeat full prayer until you convert to catholicism]

:beam:

Kommodus
11-22-2006, 15:10
FYI, I am going on vacation this Thanksgiving, leaving tomorrow morning and returning Sunday evening.

Hm... I wonder if this has something to do with why GH didn't want a tie vote. Perhaps he's taking a little vacation too?

Proletariat
11-22-2006, 15:24
How many others are off this weekend? I'll be gone Thursday night through Sunday evening as well.

GeneralHankerchief
11-22-2006, 18:29
Actually, yes, that is why I didn't want a tie vote.

Voting this round will last from the kills (to be posted later today) until early Saturday.

Husar
11-22-2006, 18:36
It actually works... In The Black Hand 2 I repeatedly told the chatters that I was the Godfather. No-one seemed to believe me. :yes:
I was thinking you referred to the Godfather 2...
On the Black Hand 2 you only told me you were inactive and wanted to spice it up a bit after some Godfather 2 had ended, turned out you were spicing it up all the time.:juggle2:


How many others are off this weekend? I'll be gone Thursday night through Sunday evening as well.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
Ok, I won't be here over the weekend, but I may be here.:idea2: :yes:

Silver Rusher
11-22-2006, 20:03
Damn, Banquo's Ghost, picking up on that Wanaka thing is incredibly fishy. In fact, I am convinced you planted it so you could accuse Hepcat. That a regular person (not from New Zealand) could 1) know something so incredibly specific and have it conveniently come up in the first kills in a game of mafia and 2) link this incredibly obscure piece of information with an entirely different word does not seem at all possible to me. I searched around on google a bit and couldn't even find that. Been on holiday to there before and wanted to make the reference, BG?

Something I believe was picked up on after you stopped playing this game is that people in special roles have a psychological tendency to talk about their roles or give away hints as to their plans. In TG2, and this is the best example that fits with your case, Myrddraal (a mafioso who had just killed Sir Moody while he was in a Cessna Skyhawk) posted this:

Also did anyone else notice this:

and a Cessna Skyhawk flew into view.
Reminds me of Osmium and as such should be thoroughly ignored.
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&resnum=0&q=Cessna%20Skyhawk&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=wi

Btw, if you are thinking of voting BG, try to concentrate more on Sasaki's good record than my bad one. He knows what he's talking about.

GeneralHankerchief
11-22-2006, 20:14
Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet. Most people, disturbed by the previous day's events, had still decided to go by their normal routines, convinced that the threat of the mafia was eliminated.

How wrong they were.

Pannonian’s brow was full of sweat, his fingers lined with dirt, as he worked his field. The simple farmer was so engrossed in his work that he failed to notice a shadowy figure walk up behind him.

“Hello Pannonian,” said the figure, in a cold, malevolent voice.

“Oh God,” Pannonian thought to himself, “It’s too early.” Not having the will to turn around and face the voice, Pannonian tightened his grip on his hoe and got ready to fight or flee.

The shadowy figure chuckled lightly, as if he knew Pannonian’s fear. “My dearest Pannonian, may I ask you some questions?”

Before Pannonian had the chance to respond, the shadowy figure asked: “Why do you do what you do?”

“What do you mean?” Pannonian replied.

The figure responded: “Why engage yourself in this degrading work? Is it not better if one immerses himself in the vast oceans of thought?”

Pannonian turned around and snapped: “This is noble work! I would much rather till the land than waste my life with worthless speculation!”

Only then did Pannonian get a glimpse of the figure. A tall man, with a wide brimmed hat supporting grapes stood before him. Most disturbing was the man’s face, it was as if staring at a void. There was – nothingness.

The man’s voice became loud and insidious: “YOU HAVE INSULTED WHAT THE WANAX HOLDS DEAR, PANNONIAN! YOU HAVE DEFILED HIS SACRED DOMAIN BY MUTILATING IT AND SUFFOCATING IT TO MEET YOUR OWN SELFISH DESIRES!”

The man’s voice dropped back to it’s previous tone: “But The Wanax is able to requite this wrong.”

Pannonian was found dead on his field. Every orifice of his body had been stuffed with manure. By the body was a business card with the words "The Wanax" imprinted on it, as well as a grape watermark.

Meanwhile, Evil_Maniac From Mars was at his house, watching an old BBC television show. He was well-equipped with a comfortable recliner, the remote, some junk food, and beer. This would be a good day. He wouldn't have to get up at all.

And then the doorbell rang.

Cursing to himself, EMFM got off of his recliner and opened the front door. Standing there was a man with sunglasses, wearing a trenchcoat.

"Telegram," the man said.

"Telegram? Do those even exist anymore?"

"Well, obviously they do, or I wouldn't be here, would I?" The man got terse.

"Okay, sheesh. You don't have to be mean to me. Aren't you supposed to read the telegram?"

The man with the trenchcoat grunted. "Very well. If you wish." He cleared his throat and began.


"Oh freddled gruntbuggly,
Thy micturations are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits
On a lurgid bee.
Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes
And hooptiously drangle me
with crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon
See if I don't."

EMFM stared at him. "That's it?"

The man with the trenchcoat stared back. "Um... I guess so... I read somewhere where reading that was supposed to kill you."

"Nope, guess not."

"I guess I'll have to resort to Plan B, then," the mafioso said matter-of-factly. He pulled a stiletto out of his trenchcoat, stabbed EMFM in the heart, and departed.

Later that day, Chief of Police Beirut had all the villagers gathered in the town center again.

"Gentlemen," he began, "it seems as if the mafia are still at large in the Frontroom. So, I have no choice but to begin the voting procedure again."

Announcement from GH: As stated before, due to Thanksgiving break the voting will last until Saturday. I want lots of discussion from those who aren't going away, and I wish everyone who is going away a happy Thanksgiving.

The Spartan (Returns)
11-22-2006, 20:16
I am the detective. I confess.:saint: your unholy blasphemy does not fool me. Vote:theRTWGuru
interpretation: your trying to make us think you are a detective, but your just saying that to save yourself.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-22-2006, 20:19
Vote:Banquo's Ghost

Csargo
11-22-2006, 20:50
Vote:Banquo's Ghost

AggonyDuck
11-22-2006, 20:52
:saint: your unholy blasphemy does not fool me. Vote:theRTWGuru
interpretation: your trying to make us think you are a detective, but your just saying that to save yourself.

Or maybe he is just trying to fool the mafia away from the real detective? (EDIT: albeit doing a poor job at it)

AggonyDuck
11-22-2006, 21:03
Anyway to my vote. I've been reading BG's posts and I agree with Sasaki and SR that they're a bit suspicious. So I will follow them and cast my vote like this:

Vote: Banquo's Ghost

Seamus Fermanagh
11-22-2006, 21:07
Vote:Banquo's Ghost


Vote:Banquo's Ghost

Sasaki, did you not deride me earlier for failing to back up my vote with something resembling a valid reason?:inquisitive:

Should I assume that Silver Rusher speaks for you two, hence this vote?

Please enlighten me.:idea2:

Csargo
11-22-2006, 21:16
Sasaki, did you not deride me earlier for failing to back up my vote with something resembling a valid reason?:inquisitive:

Should I assume that Silver Rusher speaks for you two, hence this vote?

Please enlighten me.:idea2:

I voted Banquo's Ghost because of what SR said. What Sasaki was saying and because what the hell is a Wanax I don't know what that is do you?

Seamus Fermanagh
11-22-2006, 22:00
I voted Banquo's Ghost because of what SR said. What Sasaki was saying and because what the hell is a Wanax I don't know what that is do you?

No clue. Couldn't tell the difference between a wanax, a snorlax, or a can of Dr. Zoggs sex wax.


I did a little re-reading following Ag-Duck's vote, so I'll

Vote: Banquo's Ghost

provisionally -- at least until we here from BG.

Silver Rusher
11-22-2006, 22:15
Vote: Banquo's Ghost

Explained earlier.

EDIT:

Sasaki, did you not deride me earlier for failing to back up my vote with something resembling a valid reason?:inquisitive:

Should I assume that Silver Rusher speaks for you two, hence this vote?

Please enlighten me.:idea2:
I think the fact that Sasaki explained his reasoning earlier makes up for the fact that he didn't post a reason with his vote.

Ignoramus
11-22-2006, 22:28
If you saw the definitions of Wanax that Banquo gave, he also mentioned a Mycenaean priest-king or a Homeric word for king.

Now I have been doing a bit of research, and found out that there was a Macedonian general named "Craterus", who late became one of the Diadochi and thus a king. I therefore accuse Craterus of being one of the mafia.

Silver: Why do you accuse Banquo's Ghost of planting Wanax to get rid of Hepcat, when it is was posted in one of the kills again? Whoever did it, did not do it for the sole purpose of framing Hepcat.

Vote: Craterus

Craterus
11-22-2006, 22:40
I'm flattered that you even think my knowledge of Ancient Greek culture is that good. I'll admit to only knowing about the campaign of Alexander but I guess you have good reasoning there.

I've been away for a few days, apologies for my absence.

I'll vote: abstain. I've read the whole thread; I still have no idea and I don't want to bandwagon BG. Seems a bit like overkill. At least at the moment.

Banquo's Ghost
11-22-2006, 23:01
Wow, now that's what I call a bandwagon. Reminds me of the howling mob that lynched me last time I played, again for writing more than one syllable.

There's not much I can say in my defence, since it appears that this town has no interest in exploring the clues left by the Mafia. You are all so terrified by double-bluffs you can't think straight.

For example, some of you are talking about Hepcat being framed. How do you know he wasn't one of the Mafia? If, as Sasaki chided me, these clues are placed to mislead, why would I put my head above the parapet and attract attention to myself?

I maintain that the reference to the Wanax is important - either as a red herring or a real clue. If you all really think that simply exploring ideas deserves a lynching, be my guest. You'll regret it in the morning. I could claim to be an expert on Maori culture or Mycenaen kings, but just try putting wanax into google, as I did, to see if something came up.

I shall think some more before casting my vote. Perhaps that's advice some of you bandwaggoners should reflect on as well.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-22-2006, 23:10
Sasaki, did you not deride me earlier for failing to back up my vote with something resembling a valid reason?:inquisitive:

Should I assume that Silver Rusher speaks for you two, hence this vote?

Please enlighten me.:idea2:

See previous 4 or 5 posts :stare:



Banquo, theres no way the mafia accidentally included a word like "wanax" in their description. Since it was on purpose it doesn't tell us anything, we have no way of knowing whether it pointed to someone specific or was random.

Husar
11-22-2006, 23:15
If you saw the definitions of Wanax that Banquo gave, he also mentioned a Mycenaean priest-king or a Homeric word for king.

Now I have been doing a bit of research, and found out that there was a Macedonian general named "Craterus", who late became one of the Diadochi and thus a king. I therefore accuse Craterus of being one of the mafia.

Good point and seems to be true.

Vote: Craterus

Sasaki Kojiro
11-22-2006, 23:21
Good point and seems to be true.

Vote: Craterus


If you saw the definitions of Wanax that Banquo gave, he also mentioned a Mycenaean priest-king or a Homeric word for king.

Now I have been doing a bit of research, and found out that there was a Macedonian general named "Craterus", who late became one of the Diadochi and thus a king. I therefore accuse Craterus of being one of the mafia.

Silver: Why do you accuse Banquo's Ghost of planting Wanax to get rid of Hepcat, when it is was posted in one of the kills again? Whoever did it, did not do it for the sole purpose of framing Hepcat.

Vote: Craterus

Oh what the christ?


Voting based on "clues" won't get us anywhere. I don't even see how you are making the connection there for Craterus being guilty. Are you suggesting that he planted a clue pointing at himself? :dizzy2:

It's far more likely that you planted the clue to frame Craterus.

Craterus
11-22-2006, 23:32
I like your thinking. ~;)

The Spartan (Returns)
11-22-2006, 23:41
Oh what the christ?


Voting based on "clues" won't get us anywhere. I don't even see how you are making the connection there for Craterus being guilty. Are you suggesting that he planted a clue pointing at himself? :dizzy2:

It's far more likely that you planted the clue to frame Craterus.
:saint: lord God bless you for opening the villager's eyes.

interpretation:

very true; they usually do that to frame villagers.


See previous 4 or 5 posts :stare:



Banquo, theres no way the mafia accidentally included a word like "wanax" in their description. Since it was on purpose it doesn't tell us anything, we have no way of knowing whether it pointed to someone specific or was random.

i agree.

unvote:theRTWGuru
Vote: Banquo's Ghost

Ignoramus
11-23-2006, 00:27
Craterus might have been hoping one of two things:

1.) That no one picked up on the definition of Wanax.

2.) That if even if someone did, it would be refuted by someone like Sasaki, who may well be the other mafia guy.

Kommodus
11-23-2006, 00:41
I think this'll be my last post before leaving on Thanksgiving vacation. Since I'm not going to be able to properly participate in this round, I'll have to:

Vote: Abstain

However, here's a thought: take a look at the old Cosa Nuova thread and look at who played. The quoted Vogon poetry would seem to indicate that the guilty party is a veteran of that game. Of course, he could also be someone who didn't actually play, but followed the thread. I know it's not much, but it's something.

GeneralHankerchief
11-23-2006, 00:52
However, here's a thought: take a look at the old Cosa Nuova thread and look at who played. The quoted Vogon poetry would seem to indicate that the guilty party is a veteran of that game. Of course, he could also be someone who didn't actually play, but followed the thread. I know it's not much, but it's something.

Okay, before anyone gets too caught up in this, the killer mentioned nothing about Vogon poetry. I just put that in because I knew EMFM would want something along those lines.

Sigurd
11-23-2006, 01:24
vote:Sasaki

Every game needs a little bandwagon sounding the tune of Sasaki.
He is barking up the wrong tree here...

Husar
11-23-2006, 01:26
Craterus might have been hoping one of two things:

1.) That no one picked up on the definition of Wanax.

2.) That if even if someone did, it would be refuted by someone like Sasaki, who may well be the other mafia guy.
Now I see I didn't really get your point...:oops:

Unvote: Craterus
Vote: Abstain

GeneralHankerchief
11-23-2006, 05:32
During the voting, Chief of Police Beirut made a sudden announcement, temporarily halting all proceedings.

"Gentlemen," he said breathlessly, "it has just come to my attention that one eye has been removed from the corpse of Evil_Maniac From Mars. The coroner failed to notify me of this during the initial search of the body. It seems as if his killer meant to create an 'unblinking eye' symbol.

"I do not know how much use this information will be, but nevertheless, keep it in mind while voting."

The Chief of Police went back to his office, and voting resumed.

Death Match
11-23-2006, 08:05
Here are my results - "Husar: not guilty"

By the way,


No one will believe you. If you were the detective, you would have learnt your lesson from The Godfather Part 2, and not revealed yourself without some useful evidence.

I must investigate Ignoramus. Why the hell would you say that apart from that you just want to assume that I am the wrong confession and that you just want to ensure that Mafia doesn't waste their kill.

FINE believe what you want to believe! I will post my investigations until I die. If I survive, I will laugh because you already knew that I was the detective.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-23-2006, 10:23
vote:Sasaki

Every game needs a little bandwagon sounding the tune of Sasaki.
He is barking up the wrong tree here...

Maybe so ~:handball:

But there are no other trees.

Husar
11-23-2006, 11:25
Here are my results - "Husar: not guilty"
I really don't think that's a good thing to say...:help:


But there are no other trees.
Maybe Sigurd wants to present himself as another tree?:sweatdrop:

Sigurd
11-23-2006, 12:00
Let me take a wild guess at who our next victims will be... :wall:

[edit]: Don't go and blame me for this. I know you are all thinking the same.

doc_bean
11-23-2006, 13:45
I wanted to vote Husar for his 'confession' earlier. But with these new developments I will vote: abstain for now.

I DO NOT believe Banquo's Ghost is mafia, he would have played an incredibly stupid game if he was...

The Spartan (Returns)
11-23-2006, 14:59
Here are my results - "Husar: not guilty"

By the way,



I must investigate Ignoramus. Why the hell would you say that apart from that you just want to assume that I am the wrong confession and that you just want to ensure that Mafia doesn't waste their kill.

FINE believe what you want to believe! I will post my investigations until I die. If I survive, I will laugh because you already knew that I was the detective.then the mafia will kill you just to be safe.

Proletariat
11-23-2006, 15:42
The Banquo bandwagon really seems like a canard. Even Silver joined in it.

Vote: Sasaki

Sasaki Kojiro
11-23-2006, 17:40
Why did you vote me? ~:handball:

Kind of hypocritical, no?

GeneralHankerchief
11-23-2006, 18:20
Vote count before I leave:

Banquo's Ghost: 6
Sasaki Kojiro: 2
Craterus: 1

Abstained: 3

Banquo's Ghost
11-23-2006, 18:56
Vote count before I leave:

Banquo's Ghost: 6
Sasaki Kojiro: 2
Craterus: 1

Abstained: 3


Well, short of a mob mentality that does u-turns, I guess I'm toast - or perhaps the turkey, given the weekend.

The practical thing would be for me to try and move a small band-wagon in Sasaki's direction, but I am now convinced he's an innocent, for the same reasons I know have brought me to this pass, despite my innocence - he has spoken forthrightly and openly - a mafioso wouldn't make such a song and dance to bring the unwelcome attention of the unthinking mob upon himself.

The town talks a good fight about how lurkers never prosper, but those of us citizens who have actually spoken up and tried to put forward reasoned arguments are the ones with votes here. Proves my point, and the Mafia is laughing at you headless chickens.

My vote therefore goes to a very quiet, but eloquent voice. No good reason, because that appears to be way to go, but he should be doomed anyway when the Wrath of God descends, don't you think?

Vote: Don Corleone

Proletariat
11-23-2006, 19:19
Why did you vote me? ~:handball:

Kind of hypocritical, no?

Because you're leading the charge on this silly bandwagon. Unless you sincerely beleive Banquo is stupid enough to try the Don C nubsauce approach, I doubt you really think he's mafia. It seems more likely that you're mafia at this point, anyway.

What's hypocritical, btw? You're leading a weak bandwagon. I think that makes you look more guilty than Banquo does for that Wanax rubbish



The practical thing would be for me to try and move a small band-wagon in Sasaki's direction, but I am now convinced he's an innocent, for the same reasons I know have brought me to this pass, despite my innocence - he has spoken forthrightly and openly - a mafioso wouldn't make such a song and dance to bring the unwelcome attention of the unthinking mob upon himself.

Check out the other games. Sasaki does this sort of brow beating thing all game whether he's a detective, mafia, mason, etc. My guess at this point is that both of you are most likely innocent, so if we can u-turn your bandwagon I'd be inclined to lynch a lurker.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Sasaki Kojiro
11-23-2006, 19:27
Because you're leading the charge on this silly bandwagon. Unless you sincerely beleive Banquo is stupid enough to try the Don C nubsauce approach, I doubt you really think he's mafia. It seems more likely that you're mafia at this point, anyway.

What's hypocritical, btw? You're leading a weak bandwagon. I think that makes you look more guilty than Banquo does for that Wanax rubbish


We don't learn much from rounds where nothing significant happens. Leading weak bandwagons isn't a typical mafia behavior btw, as you say yourself I always do this.

As I said before I'm not voting Banquo because of the "wanax rubbish". Ignoramus went for the same thing and I'm not voting him. I'm voting Banquo because the nature of his defense doesn't strike me as innocent. Last round he was constantly trying to nudge suspicion my way, this round he's convinced I'm innocent. His takes the high road in his last post but it sounds like he's taking it for appearances sake.

Silver Rusher
11-23-2006, 19:52
Nobody who has attacked the arguments made by me or Sasaki has actually made a decent argument. Ignoramus is using the silliest reasoning I have ever seen for voting for Craterus (why the hell would he use a name that connects him to the word Wanax?) so should be ignored (alright, fine, this sounds a bit hypocritical so I should post the problems with his argument. He asked me why I think Hep was framed when it appeared in the kills again. As explained later, it could just be that BG saw a bandwagon on Hepcat forming and couldn't resist) and Proletariat only seems to be able to come up with "a silly bandwagon". doc_bean has actually given us something, but even thats the simple 'he's not that stupid' logical fallacy. Everyone makes mistakes, mafia included, and as BG has not played for a while I don't see why he wouldn't.

Come on guys, throw us some proper arguments! If we are truly wrong, telling us why can only help the villagers.

Anyway, back to the point of the argument. I have no problem with Banquo's Ghost pointing out the wanax reference, but connecting it to Wanaka is just plain suspicious. Let me show you an example of why:

I could claim to be an expert on Maori culture or Mycenaen kings, but just try putting wanax into google, as I did, to see if something came up.
Go on then. You will definitely find the greek kings stuff, but no matter how many google pages you trawl through you will find absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, about the Maori place name. Even a search for Wanaka, for me at least, comes up with nothing at all about the name meaning a place where grapes grow.


For example, some of you are talking about Hepcat being framed. How do you know he wasn't one of the Mafia? If, as Sasaki chided me, these clues are placed to mislead, why would I put my head above the parapet and attract attention to myself?
OK, whether Hepcat was being framed or not I do not know. But the rhetorical question that follows is yet another logical fallacy. We have a strong basis for accusing you, and on that basis we can assume that Hepcat was innocent. Onto your last point, however, you obviously haven't read my last post. More evidence is found in this analysis by Sasaki in Mafia IV, if you want to know: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1258994&postcount=89

(btw, in the first example, GoreBag and GeneralH were both mafia. There are also a horde of examples in The Godfather, Part 2, but that post was written before then)

Banquo's Ghost
11-23-2006, 20:01
Since I had not played for a while, if I had been mafia it would have been more intelligent to sit back and see how the game flowed, don't you think?

You can dismiss my arguments all you like, the simple truth of this village is people pick on those who speak up. Silver, you're likely to be next, you know.

The reason I changed to think Sasaki innocent is because he's posted a lot, and thus he's getting votes. The quiet don't. Much, much better odds if you're Mafia to shut the heck up or post unassumingly.

I'm going to swing so who cares. I'm done here.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Masy
11-23-2006, 20:54
Right, I'm going to throw a big treatise in here:

Vote: Divine Wind

Why?


I want the do gooders, the "Im neutral happy and gay!" crowd gone!

No more tight leather trousers in this village!

Vote: Masy

GAH!

1) He voted for me. Firstly, I will admit that I am hurt by his accusation, but more importantly he voted for me on the basis that I abstained. Aside from that being a weak reason to vote, he compiled this with a 'humorous' joke, a joke, I believe, intended to make himself appear friendly, likable and trustworthy. These are all tactics I tried when I was mafia, making joking asides to 'lighten the mood', and to make myself appear less serious. The taking-part-for-a-bit-of-fun-don't-really-care-about-the-consequences approach is one I find quite suspect:


Its either a cunning Mafia trick...or their just plain idiots.

Again, he makes a lighthearted post, a post no doubt intended to 'merge' himself with the townies. After all, a mafioso wouldn't criticize themselves, surely?

2) He was last active at 12:11 today, and yet has not voted in this round. That's fine, on it's own, but compounded with his 'light' posting leads me to believe he is deliberately avoiding a vote (to stay under the radar, no doubt). Perhaps he's trying to mix in with the people who couldn't vote because of the thanksgiving.

3) He claims he wants the
"Im neutral happy and gay!"
crowd gone, yet I believe he's the (pretending to be) neutral one. He votes, yes, but he doesn't want to appear a band wagoner (as mafia sometimes are), so he votes for someone who at that time was not in danger of a lynching. When people look back at folk's posting records, he'll stay under the radar, because he didn't bandwagon, yet nor did he miss many votes. I believe he's trying to be an 'average' player, one who doesn't
miss many votes (because I'm sure he's smart enough to know that inactivity would work against him), and one who doesn't draw attention to himself with the votes he casts. People who are talkative and confrontational (Sasaki, Csar etc) always find themselves under suspicion (as I surely will be soon), and I believe that is what he's trying to avoid.

Crazed Rabbit
11-23-2006, 21:23
Hmmm. I do't think BG is guilty; surely he would've learned from his last game ad kept his head down a bit? Also, Silver seems to think he's gulity ~;p .

I think the mafia is probably not postig that much, anyone have a list o' lurkers?

Vote: abstain for now.

CR

Silver Rusher
11-23-2006, 21:28
Hmmm. I do't think BG is guilty; surely he would've learned from his last game ad kept his head down a bit? Also, Silver seems to think he's gulity ~;p .
That's rich coming from you.

doc_bean
11-23-2006, 22:27
doc_bean has actually given us something, but even thats the simple 'he's not that stupid' logical fallacy. Everyone makes mistakes, mafia included, and as BG has not played for a while I don't see why he wouldn't.


Mistakes are usually slip ups, this was something totally different.

I feel we should not kill helpful villagers and instead target lurkers, it's anybody's guess who is mafia right now, we don't have much to go on, but if we start targeting lurkers at this point they might feel the need to post more and thus we have a better chance of finding the mafia.

IMO one of the mistakes we often make is to kill the helpful villagers too early in the game, eliminating discussion.

Silver Rusher
11-23-2006, 22:35
Mistakes are usually slip ups, this was something totally different.

I feel we should not kill helpful villagers and instead target lurkers, it's anybody's guess who is mafia right now, we don't have much to go on, but if we start targeting lurkers at this point they might feel the need to post more and thus we have a better chance of finding the mafia.

IMO one of the mistakes we often make is to kill the helpful villagers too early in the game, eliminating discussion.
There ya go. Coming up with a GOOD reason why we shouldn't be voting BG.

I still got my eye on you, BG. But doc_bean is right, even if you are in the mafia its probably not a good idea to vote you off right away for the sake of chance. Voting for lurkers seems like the best thing to do right now. However, unless I find good reason not to, I will be voting against you later in the game.

I would advise those who voted for BG to change their votes now.

Unvote: Banquo's Ghost
Vote: Abstain (I will look through the lurkers later and vote for one then)

Csargo
11-23-2006, 23:58
Unvote: Banquo's Ghost
Vote: Divine Wind

Alright I think Masy's right when I was the the Godfather in GF2 (cries a little) that's exactly what I did. I made stupid joking votes or didn't vote at all. That leads me to believe that he maybe a mafioso.

Proletariat
11-24-2006, 01:00
There ya go. Coming up with a GOOD reason why we shouldn't be voting BG.


LOL

I said the same thing and you brushed it aside. You also ignored my strongest argument against lynching BG which was you being all for it.

Proletariat
11-24-2006, 01:02
We don't learn much from rounds where nothing significant happens. Leading weak bandwagons isn't a typical mafia behavior btw, as you say yourself I always do this.


That's true, you probably are guilty.

Husar
11-24-2006, 01:42
My guess at this point is that both of you are most likely innocent,

That's true, you probably are guilty.
Both quotes towards sasaki, which tells me you're jumping around, sweetheart...:inquisitive:

Proletariat
11-24-2006, 01:58
The first was me contradicting myself. I thought of it but I was at dinner and couldn't fix it until later, but by then Sasaki had pointed it out.

I'd still rather kill a lurker than Sasaki.

Csargo
11-24-2006, 02:01
The first was me contradicting myself. I thought of it but I was at dinner and couldn't fix it until later, but by then Sasaki had pointed it out.

I'd still rather kill a lurker than Sasaki.

Then why haven't you changed your vote? Huh, HUH, HUH

:iloveyou:

Proletariat
11-24-2006, 02:02
What's the rush? We have days.

Anyways

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Csar

Csargo
11-24-2006, 02:05
What's the rush? We have days.

Anyways

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Csar

I'm considered a lurker dang when did that happen?

Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful. ~;)

Proletariat
11-24-2006, 02:12
Who accused you of being a lurker? Hm HRM HRM HRM?!

I said I'd like to lynch a lurker, but because of Sasaki and Silver and them we're going to kill a more likely to be innocent person.

Csargo
11-24-2006, 02:18
Who accused you of being a lurker? Hm HRM HRM HRM?!

I said I'd like to lynch a lurker, but because of Sasaki and Silver and them we're going to kill a more likely to be innocent person.

Alright I got confused. I though you were voting for me cause you thought I was a lurker. Though what's your reason for voting me? Hm HM HM HM

Proletariat
11-24-2006, 02:20
Alright I got confused. I though you were voting for me cause you thought I was a lurker. Though what's your reason for voting me? Hm HM HM HM

I was being kyoot. But now my reason is because you've now twice quoted the preceding post, like a nub.

:yes:

Csargo
11-24-2006, 02:31
Yeah Prole I know. :iloveyou:

Sasaki Kojiro 24
Csar 20
GeneralHankerchief 16
Seamus Fermanagh 13
Proletariat 12
Husar 12
Banquo's Ghost 11
Sigurd Fafnesbane 9
Pannonian 8
Ignoramus 8
Silver Rusher 7
Kommodus 6
God's Grace 6
Reenk Roink 6
AggonyDuck 6
doc_bean 5
Kagemusha 4
theRTWGuru 4
Crazed Rabbit 4
Drisos 3
Craterus 3
Divine Wind 3
Xiahou 3
Hepcat 3
Dutch_guy 3
Masy 3
discovery1 2
Evil_Maniac From Mars 2
Sir Moody 2
Destroyer of Hope 1
Don Corleone 1
Zalmoxis 1
UltraWar 1

These are the number of posts in this thread by each person if you wanna vote a lurker. There they are.

Proletariat
11-24-2006, 02:35
You knew I already knew how to find that list, because someone just explained it to me in the chat, which you're in. Are you just trying to get your thread post count up?

:inquisitive:

Csargo
11-24-2006, 02:40
You knew I already knew how to find that list, because someone just explained it to me in the chat, which you're in. Are you just trying to get your thread post count up?

:inquisitive:

No of course not I would never do anything like that. :beam:

Seamus Fermanagh
11-24-2006, 04:00
You knew I already knew how to find that list, because someone just explained it to me in the chat, which you're in. Are you just trying to get your thread post count up?

:inquisitive:

How does one get that? (I'm not on the chat here)


My, my, my, have a little turkey and go see the Xmas lights and look what happens. Some good points made about/by BG. It may not be time to wanax him. Nor does Kojiro seem out of character so far. So...

Unvote: Banquo's Ghost.

Lurkers are a gripe in this game, and BG is correct that talking can get you killed for no other reason than you're talking. Must consider. Discounting the dead among our low post counters, we have:

Drisos 3, Craterus 3, Divine Wind 3, Xiahou 3, Dutch_guy 3, Masy 3, discovery1 2, Destroyer of Hope 1, Don Corleone 1, & Zalmoxis 1.

Of those, Don C, Zal', & Destro haven't posted since signing on. Whether or not they have roles, they seem likely to draw the WoG before long. I'd hold off voting for these folks for that reason.

Masy has made a reasoned argument about DivWin, which is picking up votes. So far, it seems the best argument put forward. While awaiting Div's response, I will therefore:

Vote: Divine Wind

Proletariat
11-24-2006, 04:14
To get to that list, from the Gameroom, you click on the post count link on the thread you want.

Alright, off to the beach for a few days. I'll be able to follow along somewhat, but not post until I get back Sunday night

As promised, an anti-lurker vote

Unvote: Csar
Vote: Destroyer of hope

Csargo
11-24-2006, 04:22
To get to that list, from the Gameroom, you click on the post count link on the thread you want.

Alright, off to the beach for a few days. I'll be able to follow along somewhat, but not post until I get back Sunday night

As promised, an anti-lurker vote

Unvote: Csar
Vote: Destroyer of hope

Ah and I thought you were gonna keep that vote on me. Dang:bigcry:

Sasaki Kojiro
11-24-2006, 05:55
There are some inherent problems with this strategy.

1) There are waaay more lurkers than mafia
2) Many people lurk continuosly
3) Last game the mafia lynched a lurker in their noble effort to help the town, and no lurkers tried to post more
4) The lurkers often get mod-killed
5) The lurkers often get killed by mafia
6) What's a person supposed to say when accused of lurking? Everyone knows it's not a serious charge. If you are really dedicated to lurking as your strategy you can just post "sorry about the absence, I'm here now" and fade silently away once you aren't being voted anymore, or just not post at all if you aren't in the majority.

Now, Divine Wind has something to respond too so a few pressure votes there is good. Although:


Masy has made a reasoned argument about DivWin, which is picking up votes. So far, it seems the best argument put forward. While awaiting Div's response, I will therefore:

Vote: Divine Wind

Is this just a pressure vote or do you really think it was the best argument put forward?



I'd also like an explanation from Don Corleone, because his lurking is atypical. Where have you been these last few days?

Sasaki Kojiro
11-24-2006, 06:06
Yeah Prole I know. :iloveyou:

Sasaki Kojiro 24
Csar 20
GeneralHankerchief 16
Seamus Fermanagh 13
Proletariat 12
Husar 12
Banquo's Ghost 11
Sigurd Fafnesbane 9
Pannonian 8
Ignoramus 8
Silver Rusher 7
Kommodus 6
God's Grace 6
Reenk Roink 6
AggonyDuck 6
doc_bean 5
Kagemusha 4
theRTWGuru 4
Crazed Rabbit 4
Drisos 3
Craterus 3
Divine Wind 3
Xiahou 3
Hepcat 3
Dutch_guy 3
Masy 3
discovery1 2
Evil_Maniac From Mars 2
Sir Moody 2
Destroyer of Hope 1
Don Corleone 1
Zalmoxis 1
UltraWar 1

These are the number of posts in this thread by each person if you wanna vote a lurker. There they are.

Oh wow, I didn't know you could do this. Let's compare!

Sasaki Kojiro 168
Don Corleone 81
Husar 78
Csar 76
Silver Rusher 69
GeneralHankerchief 67
Seamus Fermanagh 64
Myrddraal 58
Kommodus 47
Crazed Rabbit 47
Sigurd Fafnesbane 38
Dutch_guy 30
theRTWGuru 30
Masy 27
Xiahou 24
Proletariat 23
Ignoramus 22
Drisos 17
Divine Wind 16
Major Robert Dump 15
Cowhead418 13
Sir Moody 13
Evil_Maniac From Mars 6
Big King Sanctaphrax 5
UltraWar 4
Peasant Phill 4
Byzantine Mercenary 3
Lemur 3
ByzantineKnight 3
Kagemusha 2
Destroyer of Hope 1


Don went from first to almost last. Prole went from mid pack to fifth. Dutch_guy and Masy have dropped a bit. Ignoramus is up somewhat. Explanations?

I guess if you really want to be a stickler I'm down somewhat in comparison to #2 guy. But I just haven't got goin yet ~:smoking:

Csargo
11-24-2006, 06:17
Oh wow, I didn't know you could do this. Let's compare!

Sasaki Kojiro 168
Don Corleone 81
Husar 78
Csar 76
Silver Rusher 69
GeneralHankerchief 67
Seamus Fermanagh 64
Myrddraal 58
Kommodus 47
Crazed Rabbit 47
Sigurd Fafnesbane 38
Dutch_guy 30
theRTWGuru 30
Masy 27
Xiahou 24
Proletariat 23
Ignoramus 22
Drisos 17
Divine Wind 16
Major Robert Dump 15
Cowhead418 13
Sir Moody 13
Evil_Maniac From Mars 6
Big King Sanctaphrax 5
UltraWar 4
Peasant Phill 4
Byzantine Mercenary 3
Lemur 3
ByzantineKnight 3
Kagemusha 2
Destroyer of Hope 1


Don went from first to almost last. Prole went from mid pack to fifth. Dutch_guy and Masy have dropped a bit. Ignoramus is up somewhat. Explanations?

I guess if you really want to be a stickler I'm down somewhat in comparison to #2 guy. But I just haven't got goin yet ~:smoking:

Where did you get that from?

Sasaki Kojiro
11-24-2006, 06:26
It's from the Godfather 2 (obviously...what other game got that many posts).

doc_bean wasn't in that game but he usually posts more than he has.

Csargo
11-24-2006, 06:34
Prole explained in the chat why the sudden jump in posts. Husar can vouch for that or I could show it too you. If you ask of course ;)

Doc was on my suspect list. Thought it was from the Godfather 2 but I didn't realize I had that many posts. I figured GH or Myrd would have had more posts weird.

The Black Hand


Csar 30
Sasaki Kojiro 24
Husar 19
Silver Rusher 17
doc_bean 16
Major Robert Dump 14
AggonyDuck 13
GeneralHankerchief 12
Crazed Rabbit 12
Kagemusha 10
Reenk Roink 10
Ignoramus 8
Dutch_guy 8
Proletariat 8
Sigurd Fafnesbane 7
discovery1 5
Divine Wind 5
Cowhead418 5
Craterus 5
Evil_Maniac From Mars 4
Orb 4
Kommodus 3
Xiahou 3
Drisos 3
Don Corleone 2
Sir Moody 2
theRTWGuru 1
Big King Sanctaphrax 1

doc_bean
11-24-2006, 10:16
It's from the Godfather 2 (obviously...what other game got that many posts).

doc_bean wasn't in that game but he usually posts more than he has.

I tend to wait until I have something to say before I post. Or just reply whenever I get mentioned :laugh4:

About the strategy and your comments: lurkers are the bane of the villagers, they make it easier for the mafia to hide, WoG really helps, but the mafia is usually smart enough to make a few posts and votes, so we should really target the people who put in minimal effort and let the General handle the real inactive posters.

What's more important than targeting lurkers though, is that we DO NOT target active villagers wh!le we do that. You should now how easy it is to get killed when you post a lot. In my first game I got killed for being too active (granted, I *was* mafia). Helpful villagers are exactly that, helpful, and we shouldn't kill them unless we have a real reason to do so.

Banquo's Ghost
11-24-2006, 11:12
You should now how easy it is to get killed when you post a lot. In my first game I got killed for being too active (granted, I *was* mafia).

:grin:

Thanks for the support doc, but a lawyer you ain't!

The Spartan (Returns)
11-24-2006, 15:00
Mistakes are usually slip ups, this was something totally different.

I feel we should not kill helpful villagers and instead target lurkers, it's anybody's guess who is mafia right now, we don't have much to go on, but if we start targeting lurkers at this point they might feel the need to post more and thus we have a better chance of finding the mafia.

IMO one of the mistakes we often make is to kill the helpful villagers too early in the game, eliminating discussion.i guess burning BG right now is unwise. at least later on...
Unvote: Banquo's Ghost
Vote: Divine Wind

The Spartan (Returns)
11-24-2006, 15:03
God's Grace 6

These are the number of posts in this thread by each person if you wanna vote a lurker. There they are.hey im a holy man not a inquistor! the only place where I posted or spammed if you will, was in Mafia I when i was the blasphemous Spartan posting my but off writing unholy messages from the "dead". :saint:

Seamus Fermanagh
11-24-2006, 15:15
Now, Divine Wind has something to respond too so a few pressure votes there is good. Although:

Is this just a pressure vote or do you really think it was the best argument put forward?


Yes, its a pressure vote. However, that was the best argument advanced so far. Forcing myself back over the Wanax stuff, I noted that too much of it was based on suppositions OUTside the game and too many assumptions about mafia tactics. If you have to argue with X, Y, AND Z all being "provisionals" there are too many flaws to rely on it.

Masy's argument about Div Wind was based on the text/tone of Div's postings -- within this game -- and he supplied clear support for the reasoning behind his interpretation of those posts. Thus, his argument is more "grounded." It is not, of course, without its weak points, but seemed enough to move forward with for now. Certainly enough to pressure the votee into a more active/open series of posts so as to gather evidence.


You rightly point out the weaknesses in an "anti-lurker" strategy. I particularly agree with the point about likely WoG victims. Those who have never posted in this thread since joining are a "wasted" lynch. The likelihood that a mafiosi is taking that "distanced" a lurker strategy seems small, and therefore I am not pressuring the more likely targets if I cast my vote in that direction. That's another reason I was more willing to buy into Masy's hypothesis rather than hammer Destro, Don C, or Zal'.


As to Don C, he over-posted in the first 20% of Silver's recent game, so his count was a bit inflated over what will become his average. Since he is a family man (as in spouse and Jillian, not omerta-stuff:beam: ) I'm not sure this doesn't just represent his doing the Turkey thing. Was he active recently (I didn't check before replying, this was an added thought).


Thought: Somebody is going to have to do some more statistical treatments of post-count before we have a true townie strategy there. What average post-count creates townie wins? Is total post-count or average per poster a better meter? How does character death in the first, 2nd, and 3rd quartiles affect post-counts? What is an "average" post count by role? Do I lack enough of a life to actually devote time to answering these questions?

Tackling this statistically would help the number-oriented among us. As it is, there is a strong bias toward qualitative analysis based on the utterances within a series of posts -- gives a real preference to those trained in such an analytical background.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-24-2006, 15:17
i guess burning BG right now is unwise. at least later on...
Unvote: Banquo's Ghost
Vote: Divine Wind

You should bold the vote so Der Generaloberst does not miss it.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-24-2006, 15:22
You should bold the vote so Der Generaloberst does not miss it.

A trifle eager to see DW lynched, are we?

As I said before, I don't care about wanax. What I do care about is how Banquo was accusing me one round, and switched to taking the high road as if he realized that was a better strategy for appearing innocent. He can't really have suspected me the previous round then, could he?

Banquo's Ghost
11-24-2006, 16:24
A trifle eager to see DW lynched, are we?

As I said before, I don't care about wanax. What I do care about is how Banquo was accusing me one round, and switched to taking the high road as if he realized that was a better strategy for appearing innocent. He can't really have suspected me the previous round then, could he?

I was responding to your own accusations against me, which at the time I thought unmerited and an attempt to get me lynched. On reflection, and with other townsfolk weighing in on your side, I changed my mind about your motives.

You will also note that whilst I accused you of motive, I did not switch my vote to you.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-24-2006, 16:26
A trifle eager to see DW lynched, are we?

As I said before, I don't care about wanax. What I do care about is how Banquo was accusing me one round, and switched to taking the high road as if he realized that was a better strategy for appearing innocent. He can't really have suspected me the previous round then, could he?

Pet peeve. Since I actually spreadsheet the votes, I hate the thought of missing one.

BG could certainly have changed his view from one round to the next based upon, for one thing, the tone/style of your posts. He did not articulate that, however, so your are correct in that his shift in suspicion is unreported -- and some would argue indicative of a mafioso casting around for easy targets.

You know, if we could supply the sub-labels under an orgah's name, Banquo's would already read "Lord of the Wanax":laugh4:

Silver Rusher
11-24-2006, 16:31
A thought just struck me.

Proletariat is just making personal attacks, and while she might be making a lot of posts, they are mostly one or two liners and none of them are at all helpful. She is also trying unusually hard to stop BG being lynched. So, I believe BG is guilty, but also believe lynching him would be a loss to us if he was innocent. However, Proletariat is overly cooperating (btw, go and look at the first round of The Godfather, Part 2 and see how much Csar and GH cooperated) with him, plus she is far more active than usual, leading me to believe she is guilty, and lynching her won't be a loss to us (more like a gain) if she is innocent.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Proletariat

Oh, by the way, one thing struck me in Proletariat's posts:

LOL

I said the same thing and you brushed it aside. You also ignored my strongest argument against lynching BG which was you being all for it.
Same thing?

Because you're leading the charge on this silly bandwagon. Unless you sincerely beleive Banquo is stupid enough to try the Don C nubsauce approach, I doubt you really think he's mafia. It seems more likely that you're mafia at this point, anyway.

What's hypocritical, btw? You're leading a weak bandwagon. I think that makes you look more guilty than Banquo does for that Wanax rubbish

The Banquo bandwagon really seems like a canard. Even Silver joined in it.

I cannot find anything here that even slightly resembles the same thing that doc_bean said. db said that BG is helpful and so we shouldn't lynch him, you simply said the bandwagon was 'silly', 'weak' and 'a canard'. Hardly forms an argument, does it?

Banquo's Ghost
11-24-2006, 16:34
BG could certainly have changed his view from one round to the next based upon, for one thing, the tone/style of your posts. He did not articulate that, however, so your are correct in that his shift in suspicion is unreported -- and some would argue indicative of a mafioso casting around for easy targets.

Strikes me that there are few easier targets than the unresponsive early in the game. The early active essentially hang themselves, it seems.


You know, if we could supply the sub-labels under an orgah's name, Banquo's would already read "Lord of the Wanax":laugh4:

:laugh4: I'm tempted.

More seriously, is it really so ludicrous to postulate that the mafioso who chose such an obscure reference is not revealing at least something of himself in so doing?

:shrug:

Sasaki Kojiro
11-24-2006, 17:33
More seriously, is it really so ludicrous to postulate that the mafioso who chose such an obscure reference is not revealing at least something of himself in so doing?

:shrug:

Almost as unlikely as putting obscure chemistry references in the kill description.

Dutch_guy
11-24-2006, 17:56
Oh wow, I didn't know you could do this. Let's compare!

Sasaki Kojiro 168
Don Corleone 81
Husar 78
Csar 76
Silver Rusher 69
GeneralHankerchief 67
Seamus Fermanagh 64
Myrddraal 58
Kommodus 47
Crazed Rabbit 47
Sigurd Fafnesbane 38
Dutch_guy 30
theRTWGuru 30
Masy 27
Xiahou 24
Proletariat 23
Ignoramus 22
Drisos 17
Divine Wind 16
Major Robert Dump 15
Cowhead418 13
Sir Moody 13
Evil_Maniac From Mars 6
Big King Sanctaphrax 5
UltraWar 4
Peasant Phill 4
Byzantine Mercenary 3
Lemur 3
ByzantineKnight 3
Kagemusha 2
Destroyer of Hope 1


Don went from first to almost last. Prole went from mid pack to fifth. Dutch_guy and Masy have dropped a bit. Ignoramus is up somewhat. Explanations?

I guess if you really want to be a stickler I'm down somewhat in comparison to #2 guy. But I just haven't got goin yet ~:smoking:

Well, If I understand correctly my low post count at the beginning of this game in comparison to one taken from the end of another game leads to the conclusion I have been posting less.

Okay, now if I understand correctly the only thing I'd have to do - to not seem like a lurking mafioso - would be to....ehm...spam ?

:balloon2:

Divine Wind
11-24-2006, 18:08
Oh goodie! Look at the controversy ive caused by making a 10 second post on the whim from a break from work. Its probably good that I dont post so much, otherwise the .org might implode. :laugh4:


He voted for me. Firstly, I will admit that I am hurt by his accusation

Hurt? I dread to think how you survive in the real world Masy. Its just a game, I meant nothing by it. I just randomly selected you from the group of abstainers. Nothing was meant in it to annoy you or critiscise you. Just random. :bow:

The comment itself was just meant to be humourous. Im not a mindless robot drone, and my conduct as the serial killer in the Black Hand with the cucumber killings should back up my strange sense of humour. Its just the way I am.


I believe, intended to make himself appear friendly, likable and trustworthy

Not intended at all old chum. Its the way I always try to come across.


2) He was last active at 12:11 today, and yet has not voted in this round. That's fine, on it's own, but compounded with his 'light' posting leads me to believe he is deliberately avoiding a vote (to stay under the radar, no doubt). Perhaps he's trying to mix in with the people who couldn't vote because of the thanksgiving.

GAH! Im being stalked! Do I need to get the police involved?! ~;) Im currently working long hours at my new job, so any break I get are usually spent looking at the Medieval 2 forum for 5 - 10 minutes. Hence why I dont post in the mafia thread until I get back from work. Silver Rusher and Sasaki can confirm this from a PM or two ive sent them in the previous games.

I hide behind no-one. I just dont have the time to post every hour.


He votes, yes, but he doesn't want to appear a band wagoner (as mafia sometimes are), so he votes for someone who at that time was not in danger of a lynching.

I dont think bandwagoning achieves anything, so I always try to go for random accusations to see if it provokes someone like yourself to suddenly outburst and take things a bit to personally, which leads to clues. Ive done it quite a bit in the last mafia games. Take a look for yourself.

Anyway back to TV, tea and biscuits.

discovery1
11-24-2006, 18:28
Silver, you may be interested to know that for the past few days Prole's internet has been limited to he internet cell phone. It is rather cumbersum to post using such a device, so it's no surprise she's posting one-liners. Now if she was posting one liners much earlier then you may have a point.

Cookie.

GeneralHankerchief
11-24-2006, 19:27
Vote count:

Divine Wind: 4
Banquo's Ghost: 2
Craterus: 1
Sasaki Kojiro: 1
Don Corleone: 1
Destroyer of Hope: 1
Proletariat: 1

Abstained: 4

24-ish hours until I stop voting.

Seamus Fermanagh
11-24-2006, 20:35
As to our three "lurkers:"

Destoyer of Hope was active on the .org today,

Zalmoxis was last active on 11/23/6,

Don Corleone has not been active since 11/20/6.

Edit: Don C was on the day of the first murders/beginning of first lynch vote.

Zalmoxis
11-24-2006, 20:51
I'd forgotten this game was going on, sorry. I'll try to be more active, so I'm gonna read back on everything that's happened so far.

Sasaki Kojiro
11-24-2006, 20:53
I'd forgotten this game was going on, sorry. I'll try to be more active, so I'm gonna read back on everything that's happened so far.

I eagerly await your follow up post...you won't get away with not making one ~;)

Silver Rusher
11-24-2006, 20:55
Silver, you may be interested to know that for the past few days Prole's internet has been limited to he internet cell phone. It is rather cumbersum to post using such a device, so it's no surprise she's posting one-liners. Now if she was posting one liners much earlier then you may have a point.

Cookie.
OK, that takes away that part of it, but I still don't feel it enough to change my vote.

Csargo
11-24-2006, 20:56
As to our three "lurkers:"

Destoyer of Hope was active on the .org today,

Zalmoxis was last active on 11/23/6,

Don Corleone has not been active since 11/20/6.

Edit: Don C was on the day of the first murders/beginning of first lynch vote.

DoH hardly ever posts in the mafia games even to vote. I think alot of people just join these games in the hope that they will be a mafioso and when that doesn't happen then they don't check the thread.

Seamus you forgot about UltraWar

Csargo
11-24-2006, 20:59
OK, that takes away that part of it, but I still don't feel it enough to change my vote.

Prole's not around to defend herself SR

GeneralHankerchief
11-24-2006, 21:34
Seamus you forgot about UltraWar

UltraWar = :skull:

Csargo
11-24-2006, 21:35
UltraWar = :skull:

Oops forgot about that. I was just looking at post count.:wall:

Seamus Fermanagh
11-24-2006, 22:10
I think alot of people just join these games in the hope that they will be a mafioso and when that doesn't happen then they don't check the thread.

Inconcievable. How can you NOT become addicted to these whacky essays in performative ambiguity. Who cares what role you have?!??!!!

Csargo
11-24-2006, 22:16
Inconcievable. How can you NOT become addicted to these whacky essays in performative ambiguity. Who cares what role you have?!??!!!

I know it's hard to believe isn't it.:shocked:

Divine Wind
11-24-2006, 22:18
Vote: Banquo's Ghost

It seems everyone has ignored my post, so I may as well accept the inevitable. :shrug: