Am i the only one who sees this

[calithian]

First i would like to say congrats to CA for doing the best job they could to make this game absolutely horrible in MP. I would like to thank for not beta testing this game before making it. If you guys did beta test it then you should all be fired. This is the worst total war game yet. You guys have single handedly created MP lobbies with no one in them. I can give a list of games that are a decade old that have a better MP than this. I am sure you all are thinking "It will be fixed in the patch" You are kidding yourselves. I dont think you guys have the capacity to fix this game. Look at what you sold to the public!!!! You should give everyone a refund that bought this game because you know that you are not going to fix a thing. :furious3:

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Congrats guys
please feel free to contact me via email
geoff4jc@adelphia.net

[ElmarkOFear]

Being bitter doesn't really help much in getting CA's attention to your thoughts and ideas. If you think the MP is lousy, please state why. Many others here have provided their own thoughts (myself included) as to why MP is inferior to STW/MTW's MP and also as to where the game is imbalanced and possible solutions.

It is much easier to complain, to relieve dissappointment, than it is to give thought as to what is necessary to change the game to one's liking, but the extra effort will be rewarded with at least a serious discussion of the matter rather than being overlooked as another useless post which just takes up space.

PS: If your problems are balance issues then the community can make changes to fix it. The only thing we will need do is convince CA to offer it on their official site and then to get the MP community to play it. Unfortunately, the way things are set up changes to balance MP normally create imbalances to SP. This means rather than a "patch" it has to be a "mod" and historically it has been difficult to get a large group of MP players to download and play a mod.

If your problem is with the MP interface, lobby, lack of features which were in past games, lag, disconnects or game mechanics such as camera views and army controls, then those are all items which only CA can repair. Since CA doesn't consider the MP community that large compared to its SP base, you will find they will work on changes to SP before changes to MP.

So if you REALLY want your ideas to be even slightly considered by CA, then it would behoove you to stop insulting those you seek to make those changes. Civil persuasion is what has helped, in the past, to get changes important to the MP community.

Also, please notice I did not have to resort to insults, personal attacks, nor chastising, to explain how to persuade those responsible to make changes to the game.

[YellowMelon]

Elmark, your methods are noble but have we seen anything ever done in the past by CA? We begged throughout RTW for CA to make changes and they never did. There were ample discussions and even consensus to a small degree on what needed to be changed, but nothing ever happened. Debate is all we can do, because CA never listens. People have prayed and hoped that they would finally do something good with TW and they havent, in fact they botched it severely. I find it odd that games that are abandonware (like wolfenstein et) have less bugs, better online playability, and thus have more multiplayer followings. M2TW is a piece of trash unless you like the sp which is just ok.

[ElmarkOFear]

To answer your question: Yes, during the MTW days, the MP community came together and produced a long list of bugs as well as wishes for the patch being worked on. It was presented to CA, in a civil manner without any accusations, and quite a few of the changes were made. So THAT is what I am basing my current opinions on. With RTW, I disliked the MP game so much I sold my game back after the first week and have just returned to playing MP with M2TW, so I cannot say what exactly happened then, since I wasn't around.

I do know that posts like the above have never had any effect on getting changes made. Even worse, posts such as the above have had a negative effect. It is one of the reasons CA doesn't participate in the forums much, nor give any information out until the last minute. They have been burned more than once, by the community and have developed a stubborn attitude because of it.


My point is: Angry posts just take up space better served by civil discussions on the shortcomings of the current game. Whether CA takes our advice and changes the game is a moot point. We cannot do anything to persuade them to make changes other than present ideas in a short, concise manner after our discussions and hope CA can see the logic behind doing so. Making accusations, insinuating that CA programmers are lazy or incompetent is only serving to insure CA will ignore such discussions and change what they think needs to be changed without any input from the community.

What is it you do not like about the current M2TW MP to make you consider it "trash"?

For me, I consider it inferior to STW/MTW MP because of those things listed in my first post. You missed a really vibrant MP community which lasted for over 4 years until RTW was released. RTW's MP was put together during the very last week before release and not much thought was put into features etc . . I know this because I was a mod/admin at the .com forums and read posts by CA staff which was discussing such and it was obvious they had just begun work on it. I think you would have really enjoyed the STW/MTW MP days. There were ladders, clan competitions, leagues, tournaments, and so many team games available any time of day or night, you would never have to wait to play. Plus the MP lobbies were much better than the current setup.

STW's MP was run off a dedicated EA server and it had passwordable private chat rooms, permanent ban and ignore functions, and really added to the atmosphere of the game.

MTW's MP was very much similar to STW's except there were no longer any passwordable, private chat rooms, and the game was now an Activision product. However, it WAS run on a GameSpy server like those today. I am not sure how many people realized this, since the MP lobby was set up to look like part of MTW's game (just like STW) and not as some generic-looking MP lobby. It too, added much atmosphere to the game. So play MTW's MP to see exactly what a GameSpy lobby could look like and what features it could have, if CA wanted to put the time into it. I am not sure, but the original programmer for the MP lobbies may have moved on to another job or another position within CA. I miss his work. It was excellent.

RTW's and M2TW's lobbies were both done at the end of the games' development, right before release. I think that is why they decided to go with the standard generic lobby setup and not one which looks like a part of the existing game. There isn't a permanent ban or ignore function, and the game info. has some important info. missing (which was there for STW/MTW). The importance of a permanent ban/ignore function is it allowed for the community to police itself. Those players who were there just to cause problems, could be ignored permanently and also be banned permanently from your hosted games. This kept a lot of players in line and prevented one person from ruining a whole server's worth of MP games.

All we can do is reqest CA makes changes to these lobbies and hope they make it a priority for the patch.

Hope this helps explain my views a bit better. :)

[Orda Khan]

All your points are valid, Elmo. The problem is that we really don't see much emphasis on MP, never have and IMO never will. There was plenty of feedback about the state of MP in RTW, polite or otherwise but we saw little response. We were told by CA that M2TW MP would receive significant improvement and it hasn't. To anyone who remembers the lobbies you mention and the activity, it is hardly surprising that people vent their frustration.
M2TW is the only game in the series that I did not buy on release, I still haven't bought it. My trust has been broken and I feel genuinely sorry for those who spent a lot of money upgrading their PC's in anticipation of a game that promised so much

......Orda

[Fenix7]

Elmo, you were missed since the end of .NET and you only made a post or two on this forums since RTW was released.Good to see you back and even if this is only for a while.~:cheers:

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

My trust has been broken and I feel genuinely sorry for those who spent a lot of money upgrading their PC's in anticipation of a game that promised so much

......Orda

Thank you. I will wait for a patch and if the patch is(n't) as expected I sell the game on ebay. I have bought hardware for 300 euro, that I can use for other games.

[Fenix7]

I have bought hardware for 300 euro, that I can use for other games.

Why people need to stress this so often? Why to point out something what is clear enough? If you have good PC combo it is obvious that you can use it for other games or programs if you want do that..or is this not obvious? Don't get me wrong. Let me first explain myself befor you are going to take this personal.

I remember how it was when RTW was released. I was the same. I was hoping that there will be improvements and when I've realized that game engine is as it is and that there are no other posibilities my post became very aggressive. RTW was as it was. Many trashed it (I was no exception) and constantly mentioning how many better games are out there. This is probably due the issue that those who liked STW and MTW were annoyed that RTW is not what it should have been. Frustration and anger have appeared. All we were able to do was that we have expressed our unsatisfaction with the way how RTW was made. Ironicaly those posts and ciritcs have not changed RTW. Infact situation would remain the same if we would spare ourselves our time we had spent writting all those posts.

I remember what Elmo did, like few others as well. I remember he posted his opinion about RTW and sold the game. And that's was it. He was not bothered with futher discussion how RTW should have been, what has been done, criticizing, etc. He simply moved along.

From my personal view on MTW2 is that it is improvedt compared to RTW. Patch could make it a lot better and let's us see what is going to happen. On the other way if you don't like the game, fine with me. If you want to play other games ok with that. I just know I'm not going over the same process I've went through after RTW was out. If I won't like MTW2 after the patch I will sold it and won't spent any more time on this forums posting comments how MTW2 should have been made and what else there is on the market or I will continue to play it. Simple as that.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Argeed. or How can I say it bluntly?

Alright, I started to play MP on VI in March 2004,nice year to do MP. I remember how all my buds (unpatched server,mind you), are so excited about RTW, and we never thought "well,what happens if RTW MP isn't good?". So RTW came out at end of Setember, and would't you know, RTW MP was horrible? So all 40+ people on the unpatched server, expect for me and handful of other people (Some of them you know,Relok,Warlord,Pie-Eater,etc..) left TW or Left RTW MP and just Moved on without complaining. So Did alot of you guys. Just Said what was wrong with the game and moved on. Why? Because if CA doesn't care enough to actually fix the bugs or at least make MP somewhat enjoyable, then no sense of playing MTW2. Don't Need to Leave the Communtiy because of a game like RTw or MTW2, because you can always do STW fakeserver or MTW then,or post here, but,that what I think..

[ElmarkOFear]

I've always wondered if Fakeserver works for MTW/RTW/M2TW? :)

I DO understand everyone's frustration . . TRUST ME! hehe, but posting here in the manner of the original poster, is punishing the innocent forum patrons more than CA. CA will just overlook those posts, so one accomplish nothing, but moving good topics off of the first page of this section.

Some patrons like the game and do not think the aforementioned problems are critical enough to ruin their enjoyment. It's not that they are wrong, they just play for a different set of reasons.

I am sure they really tire of reading through posts which provide nothing to the discussions but a flaming of CA. CA KNOWS how the MP community feels, they just either can do nothing about it (due to upper-level decision-makers) or they have already been scheduled to do other work. I remember during STW days, the patches (after the first) were completed on the programmers' own time (unpaid). They were still blasted by some in the MP community for the few problems they didn't take care of. Ever since, I believe nobody at CA has been willing to put forth their own time to work on a patch, which the MP community would only get angry over and have harsh words for them in the forums.

However, I am the first to be critical of the game, if I find a problem. But I am willing to discuss it first with others to at least try to find a solution to speed the process up for a patch. So feel free to complain, but provide some good input so a discussion can happen.

[Lusted]

Well guys im not sure what is it worth, but i've been trying to balance unit stats in the export_descr_unit.txt file, and i've sent the file off to CA with a request for them to at least test it, as i think that modders have much more time to spend on fiddly little balncing and testing units than CA does, as im sure that atm they're working on bug fixes.

I hope they at least test the file i sent them, and hpefully they will take some of my changes on board, but who knows.

[Orda Khan]

Lusted, I commend you for trying. It sounds like you are on to something as well. We need CA to stamp fixes like this or they will never be accepted and I am sure the community could iron out gameplay for a decent MP. I don't know what it is about the MP community but Mods have never been accepted by more than a handful of players

......Orda

[Lusted]

Lusted, I commend you for trying. It sounds like you are on to something as well. We need CA to stamp fixes like this or they will never be accepted and I am sure the community could iron out gameplay for a decent MP. I don't know what it is about the MP community but Mods have never been accepted by more than a handful of players

My view on this is that modders generally have the time/will to make the small changes needed for a good balance, we probably have more time than CA to work on this stuff as wel as they will likely be bug fixing atm. So im trying to get CA to realise that using modder balanced files could help improve the balance of the game for both mp and sp. Im hoping they will listen to me.

[calithian]

ELMARK
fortunately i play this game for fun...i am not the one who was in any way shape or form involved in making it. If it is my job to spend a whole weekendand more figuring out how to fix the game then i would expect a paycheck for that. If you wouldnt, then perhaps you should join a socialist government of some sort.

I did give you some solutions. FIRE EVERY IDIOT AT CA WHO ALLOWED THIS TO GO BACK WITH GAME SPY. there ya go. When i dont do my job properly i am told by my boss to fix something. He does not sit there and hold my hand through the process. Is that what you are suggesting? Thats what it sounded like. You would like me to come up with solutions that will be a waste of my time. I did my part and bought the game, now they can do theirs and remove their heads from that dark place between their legs and give the people what they have payed for

[Cheetah]

ELMARK
I did give you some solutions. FIRE EVERY IDIOT AT CA WHO ALLOWED THIS TO GO BACK WITH GAME SPY.

You know very well that this is not a solution.

Also we still do not know what is your exact problem.

[ElmarkOFear]

My, my, so much anger from such a young person. Makes one wonder why one went through the new patron waiting period, just to post such a message in the main forum.

Unwilling to try and persuade CA to make changes so one can enjoy the game, yet so willing to waste so much time ranting about in anger at the "establishment". Looks like big, bad CA has won again. Forcing customers to tell them how horrible their game is and forcing them to guess what exactly is so horrible about the game: That will teach CA to mess with us!

Patrons: "Yeah fix this game!"
CA staff: "Wonder what it is he wants to be fixed?"
Patrons: "I'm not going to help you. I've already done my part!"
CA staff: "Wonder if I dated him in a past life? He sure does sound a lot like my old girlfriend."
Patrons: "You guys are idiots!"
CA staff: "Yup, has to be an old girlfriend reincarnated just to persecute me in this life."


Drivel, such as the above, has no room in this section of the forum. It isn't about TW, it is about "supposed" revenge against an uncaring CA. Unfortunately, it is at the expense of patrons who see other more relevant and constructive discussions shoved off to page 2 of the forum listings to make room for this nonsense. Amazing the lengths some trolls will go to.

[calithian]

Elmark,
i am lost for words. Have you played this game? I dont think you have. Let me guess. You are one of the Harry Potter clanmates who create the mods like Napolianic? Do you have to sell used cars and worship in the woods? So that would mean you dont care about MP anyway would it not?
Let me give a brief list of things that could only have dirived from CA not testing the game properly. 1. Cav response is a joke. By this i mean that they dont respond when given a command. Sometimes they will attack a unit with only half of the men while the other half march on to another location. How did they miss this? It happens in 90% of the games.
2. Missle response is quite similar. Muskets and other missle units will not always attack a unit with missles when in rage of fire. Instead they run at that unit and attempt a melee. This makes it hard to micro manage everything on the map. I cant skirmish or use HA properly if i have to babysit archers to make sure they dont run into the enemy line instead of shooting at them.
3. Gamespy is a joke with lag. This is not new news to anyone. I am hearing that it may be code in the game and not all game spy's fault. I sure am glad i am finding this out now while i still have the reciept for the 400$ in upgrades for my pc.
4. Unit grouping has some major problems with staying in the same group through out the game. I make a group with inf at the beginning in the deployment phase. It may be a straight line for instance. After moving that group around the field a few time and trying to drag and drop it over and over, it turns into something that kinda resembles the FLYING V.
5. I know that most people prefered the game speed of MTW much more than rome so if that is the case i have no problem with serving the majority. However i prefer that units rout when surrounded instantly if outnumbered by a large amount. I dont really care about that though.

So let me get back to the point. You guys would like me to stop talking about the problems and come up with some solutions. I cant! Well as far as creating a video game i dont know. I did not go to college for that nor do i care to. I have been a part of the community for since MTW and many of you know me. However i am very annoyed and refuse to be a silent majority. I know that 90% of you who are even somewhat competetive in this game would agree on at least 4 of these points. So please dont sit here and post things like "We dont know what your problem is" You all know what it is. You all have the same frustration but cant post it in fear of upsetting the almighty CA GODS. This game came no where near to living up to its HYPE!

4 years in the TW community and this is the first post i have made in the ORG. I did not wish to get personal with anyone but my frustration is running high.

[ElmarkOFear]

But at least this time you actually contributed to the discussion by discussing your concerns and not just bashing anything and everything. If you bothered to read my previous posts (which obviously you didn't) you would know I listed several items which were a problem for M2TW. Also, if you HAVE been around, you would know I sold my RTW game back after one week of playing online because of the shoddy MP. The lobby was lacking several features which were vital to the MP community during STW/MTW. You would also know I was a mod/admin at the .com during those days and resigned my position because I felt I couldn't warn/edit/ban anyone whom I felt had every right to complain to CA about their overlooking the MP community with RTW. I told them the veteran MP community would leave in droves (and it did) and so did I.

You are so wrapped up in your anger you have failed to see, you are not being asked to stop complaining; you are being asked to complain in a manner which is a bit more constructive. Your first post was just venting at CA. It served no purpose, but to be some sort of revenge at CA (which, I can tell you from having been an admin at the .com for 3 years: CA couldn't care less). All your venting does is take up space, and since you readily admit that we already know what the problems are, why make such a post? You obviously don't feel any better for it. CA won't bother to take it to heart. They will continue to treat MP as a second-class citizen until they can be convinced otherwise. Yelling at CA and calling them idiots doesn't do a very good job of convincing them of anything. The only way to convince them is by not buying thier games and/or being civil and presenting them a list of what is important to the MP community.

I haven't played online since RTW's first week and I sold that game back. A friend of mine told me M2TW MP played better than RTW's, and I must agree the MP is a bit better. Oh it DOES have bugs. Haven't you read the threads here concerning cavalry, musketeers, or the thread which has been working on putting a wishlist together? And Palamedes, who now works at CA, who is an old veteran MP player himself, has asked us to work up a list and he will present it to CA to hopefully get some of our requests in. I don't expect CA to make many changes, but hopefully they will make the ones which have the greatest detrimental effect on MP.

Trying anything else is wasting your time. Either do not buy future games, or join the discussions on the problems with the game. Just posting for CA to fix the game and then calling them idiots won't have any effect at all.

Feel free to join those discussions in this section of the forum, it appears you have much to say about the cav problem and it might add a different perspective to the discussions, since many admit there is a problem with the cav charge, but they also feel that cav are overpowered and the cav charge bug at least is keeping cav from being a superpowered unit. If cav becomes that then all you will see are all-cav armies in MP instead of the various armies you see currently. Variety is good and keeps a game interesting over the long run.

In the days of STW, I remember CA made a change some in the community demanded, but it had some bad consequences to the overall balance of the game (I believe the unit in question was the musketeer). If there was more discussion in the forums about the musketeer unit, it would have seen the problem wasn't what it first appeared to be. The community finally tested and tested different settings and found a solution that worked and another patch was released and most people liked the results.

So please stop with the accusations and other caustic remarks and be a contributor to the discussions. This is why most people come to the .org forums. To get away from all the nonsense which goes on over at the .com forums. The spamfest that is occurring over there has chased away many a member to other forums (such as this one) where the discussions have historically been more civil (which is why you see CA staff posting here more often than at their official forums). You have a better chance of catching CA's attention here than any other place, IF you post your complaints in a civil manner. We definitely do not want to see all the hate spam which is overrunning the .com. It has made that forum not worth visiting lately and has pushed good discussions out of the mainstream.

[Stig]

Ah it's good to see Elmo post in full glory, all I can say that he's right

*nods*

[Fenix7]

Ah it's good to see Elmo post in full glory, all I can say that he's right

~:)

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Ah it's good to see Elmo post in full glory, all I can say that he's right

*nods*


I think we can Drink on that ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

We cannot blame CA for something. They have their own strategy. I understand the nostalgia, but I have understood too, that we are not the target group. It is a pity, that it was not said in the developer blog clearly. They said only, that we will be all happy with that, but they should have known already, that this is not the case.

[Puzz3D]

Many others here have provided their own thoughts (myself included) as to why MP is inferior to STW/MTW's MP and also as to where the game is imbalanced and possible solutions.
We offer an alternative. It's called Samurai Wars. It uses a battle engine that's superior at simulating unit combat than the RTW/M2TW engine. We have a unit stat for MP that's fully independent from the SP stat. We have the biggest maps on which to play. We have excellent unit and faction recognition on the battlefield. We don't have artillery and elephants, but we do have guns which are not overpowered or underpowered. We have a better MP lobby than either RTW or M2TW offers. We are going to have an era where clans can have their own custom banner to play under, and Samurai Wars doesn't cost $50 usd.

[ElmarkOFear]

So you were finally able to separate the SP from MP stats? Nicely done Puzz.

[calithian]

Elmark as i suggeted...you dont play this game....So basically it is like you are giving a reply with no knowledge whatsoever right? Or wait, you have knowledge of STW and MTW and you are an admin here? Your comments are about as valuable for solutions as you claimed my first post was. Do you not play MP for fear that you will get as angry as i am about this? This game is done. They have ruined this game and will see no more unless they do a few things. Please quote me on this gents...... They will have to get rid of Gamespy or upgrade their service. They will also have to patch this game untill for 100 bugs...... The patch will be out thursday.... If these dont improve tremendously then they can all put their heads between their legs and kiss their butts gbye

[Yun Dog]

why because you wont be playing it anymore...

Ya well thats what alot of people said after RTW...but they (CA) are still here, and thankfully still producing games

no the only Butt they will be kissing goodbye ..Hopefully... is yours....

and good riddence

dont like the game - dont play it

and dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

kthxbye

[Cheetah]

Elmark as i suggeted...you dont play this game....
He plays this game. I just played him yesterday.


So basically it is like you are giving a reply with no knowledge whatsoever right?
He has the knowledge.


Or wait, you have knowledge of STW and MTW
Yes, he has the knowledge of STW and MTW too.


and you are an admin here?
No, he is not an admin here.


Your comments are about as valuable for solutions as you claimed my first post was.
Solutions for what? Elmo is not trying to fix the game, he is trying to channel your post into a meaningful discussion, in which he at least partially succeeded.


Do you not play MP for fear that you will get as angry as i am about this?

Though he is in Fear ~;) ~D , he is happy, in fact he is one of the happiest players I have ever seen. ~:)


This game is done.
For whom?


They have ruined this game and will see no more unless they do a few things.
They have created this game on the first place.


Please quote me on this gents......
I did. ~D


They will have to get rid of Gamespy or upgrade their service.
No, they dont have to get rid of gamespy. For example I can host a 3v3 without problem and lag, so gamespy cannot be the problem.


They will also have to patch this game untill for 100 bugs...... The patch will be out thursday....
Lets hope so.


If these dont improve tremendously then they can all put their heads between their legs and kiss their butts gbye
What do you gain with such comments?

:bow:

[Stig]

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

nice one Cheetah

[ElmarkOFear]

LOL Cheetah :)

I TOLD you guys I was a professional noob! Been playing MP since STW and apparently know nothing about anything. hehe

It is obvious to me now, the OP (Original Poster) is just trolling, and unable to grow up to the level of mature discussion. It is also apparent he has not read anything I have posted, or he read it and could not comprehend what was said. However, he still wants to bull his way through with his diatribe against CA.

I would recommend he be placed back in the new patron's section of the forum until he can mature to a level of discussion which is not counter-productive nor antagonistic to everyone around him.

It is one thing to complain about the game, providing insight into what one is dissappointed with. It is entirely another to complain, yet provide nothing of substance except insults and nonsense, without having bothered to read, or try to comprehend what others have stated.

Why does this sound like something I have said to my children? Or worse yet something my father said to me when I was young? OH NO! I'm turning into my father before my very eyes! Help me someone, save me befdore it's too late! :laugh4:

PS: I have been trying to teach Cheetah about the Joys of Routing, but he is having too much fun in winning and chasing my poor men around the battlemaps. :)

PSS: For those who may not be aware: MTW was hosted through GameSpy. It also had some lag and connectivity problems in the beginning, but the first patch improved it considerably. M2TW appears to be having a bit more trouble, but if history serves (based on MTW), the first patch should remedy most of the problems.

[Puzz3D]

So you were finally able to separate the SP from MP stats? Nicely done Puzz.
That's the interesting thing Elmark. We didn't have to modify the game to separate the stats because MTW supports separate stats for each era. All we had to do was specify a different unit stat file in a Samurai Wars Era definition file we created for MP. It's interesting because despite the game supporting separate stats for SP and MP, Creative Assembly was not inclined to make a separate stat for MP.

[ElmarkOFear]

That is a very telling statement Puzz. Let's everyone know exactly how little regard they had/have for the MP community. Hopefully Palamedes can have a small positive effect on their views and we can begin the long march back to the standard of MP play we knew and loved.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Well IMO El, that "small positive effect" proably won't help much.If MP been on a downward spiral since RTW, I don't think MP will change back to the STW days,o r even to the old MTW days. Palamedes may help CA actually listen to the communtiy.... Somewhat. to me, I think MP will get better---- to a point. Meaning, I think MP will get alot better then RTW< but never to the STW/MTW point. I think it takes effort from both sides m8. if alll or most of the Vets refuse to come back, then CA proably would think "well,why whould we so anything if they don't come back to MTW2", but if they don't Fix the MP, the Vets won't come back. so it a Lose-Lose Situation.IMO anyhow.

[ElmarkOFear]

hehe I agree. I am under no misconception that MP will ever be as exciting and vibrant as the old days, but if the small things are brought back, it would go a long way to making MP more fun instead of frustrating.

[calithian]

Elmark
Palamedes????? Man he is just one guy. And perhaps one of the only people there at CA who actually have played tw throuhout all of the eras. I do hope he gets a say in some changes. For those who know pala, know that he does the majority of his damage with his ability to move his cav all over the map. If there is an example of how to use cav, then he is it. This being said i do know that he is pulling his hair out, well whats left of it. :laugh4: I know that most of the bugs in the game will be worked out, but it leaves a major issue. Are they going to change game spy? I am sure that many of you are fine with the size of the current community. Many in the clan i am in are not. We would like to see more people in the game. We would like to see the TWGA take effect and create more activity. From where i am standing i dont think people are going to pop this game in for the first time looking for a good MP experience and find it. Do you?

hehe I agree. I am under no misconception that MP will ever be as exciting and vibrant as the old days, but if the small things are brought back, it would go a long way to making MP more fun instead of frustrating.
Today 07:15

whatever worked in MTW that is fine but lots of ideas have been brought to the table that would improve it 200% from then. I just hope they can put down their purses and step up to the plate on this one

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

hehe I agree. I am under no misconception that MP will ever be as exciting and vibrant as the old days, but if the small things are brought back, it would go a long way to making MP more fun instead of frustrating.

IMO, if they fix the Musketeer issues and the compatbily issues, plus add like a ladder/honor system that you had in STW, to keep track of your games and such, that would be alot of fun and be somewhat better IMO..

[Fenix7]

Calithian I assume you have overlooked my post.


I remember how it was when RTW was released. I was the same. I was hoping that there will be improvements and when I've realized that game engine is as it is and that there are no other posibilities my post became very aggressive. RTW was as it was. Many trashed it (I was no exception) and constantly mentioning how many better games are out there. This is probably due the issue that those who liked STW and MTW were annoyed that RTW is not what it should have been. Frustration and anger have appeared. All we were able to do was that we have expressed our unsatisfaction with the way how RTW was made. Ironicaly those posts and ciritcs have not changed RTW. Infact situation would remain the same if we would spare ourselves our time we had spent writting all those posts.

I remember what Elmo did, like few others as well. I remember he posted his opinion about RTW and sold the game. And that's was it. He was not bothered with futher discussion how RTW should have been, what has been done, criticizing, etc. He simply moved along.

From my personal view on MTW2 is that it is improvedt compared to RTW. Patch could make it a lot better and let's us see what is going to happen. On the other way if you don't like the game, fine with me. If you want to play other games ok with that. I just know I'm not going over the same process I've went through after RTW was out. If I won't like MTW2 after the patch I will sold it and won't spent any more time on this forums posting comments how MTW2 should have been made and what else there is on the market or I will continue to play it. Simple as that.

Your or anyone else sarcasm is not going to change MTW2. Atm this is the only thing we can be sure of.


We would like to see the TWGA take effect and create more activity.

Already? So much comments over MTW2 on .ORG forums already. Let us first see how patch is done and what people will think of MTW2 gameplay and then we can focus on competitions, ladders and other issue. Besides would you like to be a moderator at TWGA?


From where i am standing i dont think people are going to pop this game in for the first time looking for a good MP experience and find it.

I see Bears, Aggony, Kenchikuka, VKC, Elite, Celtiberos and few other clan members from here and there playing MTW2. You should ask them what is their opinion.

And let me ask you one question calithian. How was MTW when it was released? Befor the patch I mean and befor VI. Was it ''perfect''? Was STW ''perfect'' befor it was patched? *perfect by your standards you have when rating MTW2*

We are all aware of MTW2 issue so far. With negative posts we are not going to change anything. I assume you agree at least with this. Let's see what patch will bring.

I've spoted a post at STW forums from MaskedTerror:


Having gone to many other multiplayer games after stw I feel shogun had one of the best communities and mix of strategies/armies whilst keeping fights balenced enough to be able to say the winner was definately the better player. That kinda mix is very hard to find nowadays :)

I played medievil for a matter of minutes before realising the programmers had messed around with the unit fight/morale coding ... it no longer felt "right" or balenced like shogun did. I think I played the demo of rome also , and that really didnt make a great impression either.

My overall thoughts is that probably many people complained about the instant routing that can occur in shogun , without havent a good grasp of the simple game mechanics... thus resulting in the game becomming too user/newbie friendly. However this is just my opinion formed from brief trials of the games :)

It seems that those who experienced STW can't compare it with no other game. Sounds like being addictive. :o

[KukriKhan]

...whatever worked in MTW that is fine but lots of ideas have been brought to the table that would improve it 200% from then. I just hope they can put down their purses and step up to the plate on this one

Optimism? Optimism! He's coming around, lads.

Welcome to the Org calithian ~:wave: where we not only cuss, but also discuss our games, and figure out how to improve them. Keep coming back.

Oh, and +2 Acumen for your command of the language. Your comments - even the negative ones - are readable and comprehensible.

[Marius Dynamite]

I do know that posts like the above have never had any effect on getting changes made. Even worse, posts such as the above have had a negative effect. It is one of the reasons CA doesn't participate in the forums much, nor give any information out until the last minute. They have been burned more than once, by the community and have developed a stubborn attitude because of it.

I just read this I think Elmar said it in the 4th post or such and I can't really be bothered reading anything else so I'll just say this...

I don't care if CA never ever visit these forums. I don't care if they don't give any information out until the last minute or indeed, at all.

All I care about (In the context of TW) is RTW and M2:TW, i.e. the games.
No matter how much anyone denies it, and I'm trying not to bash here, CA are not very professional with their games. Their games are not downloads or freestuffs. They are supposed to be professional products. We all paid money for them, not for mistakes. We are not lucky if they make a good game, they are lucky if we buy their game. Don't forget they are probably(ah, I still have my manners :)) handsomely paid to make these games. Silly mistakes like the issue with Merchants and The Byzantine archers thing.. I mean come on.

They don't have to listen to what the TW Community want. It is in their best interests but they don't have to listen. They should not be selling their games with silly mistakes and then saying you have to get patches for it to cure these mistakes. This is not their first game so there is no excuse.

[ElmarkOFear]

Marius: That is the whole point. Everyone here agrees CA has made many mistakes. Especially in not listening to the MP community who are the experts on the battle engine and its problems. :) The whole point is it isn't enough to just say "This is a horrible game" without stating "WHY" it is a horrible game.

Posts which just rant and offer nothing else, are just a waste of time, without any evidence to back them up.


Calithian: I agree with what you stated in your last post. I miss the days when you could jump in the lobby any day or night and find several clan vs. clan team games available to play. I miss all the comaraderie of the old community, even amongst rivals. The current lobby doesn't allow for that same feeling and interaction. Neither does the game. We both are hoping for something better, as frustrating as that has been watching it decline over the years.

All we can do is hope. :)

PS: I am most aware of Palamedes and his teammates abilities with cav. I have been a victim lately to double/triple teams as I tried to flank them. hehe Once I find my old teammates, things may change though.

[Lusted]

Just a little bit of info for you guys, me and Jason(aka Palamedes) are now discussing the changes i've made to the unit stats that i sent CA. So it looks like CA are willing to discuss changes which the community feels would be for the best.

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Just a little bit of info for you guys, me and Jason(aka Palamedes) are now discussing the changes i've made to the unit stats that i sent CA. So it looks like CA are willing to discuss changes which the community feels would be for the best.

Good news, please give him this list also:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72013&page=2

That are all important points bugs/imbalance issues. If they would fix that problem list, they would get a lots of positive posts here I guess. :balloon2:

[Lusted]

Sure thing i'll pass it on to him.

[ElmarkOFear]

Just remember though. You are talking with Palamedes and not one of the big decision makers at CA. Palamedes has our best interests at heart and he will try to do what he can, but it will be an uphill battle for him to get CA to commit any resources for fixes which mostly benefit MP. I wish him luck and I will look send him a list of things I feel are necessary to improve MP. Most of the issues I will focus on are not balance issues, but more features and game mechanic items which can make or break a game.

M2TW MP is missing a lot of things which we took for granted in STW/MTW. I would like to see those returned.

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Just remember though. You are talking with Palamedes and not one of the big decision makers at CA. Palamedes has our best interests at heart and he will try to do what he can, but it will be an uphill battle for him to get CA to commit any resources for fixes which mostly benefit MP. I wish him luck and I will look send him a list of things I feel are necessary to improve MP. Most of the issues I will focus on are not balance issues, but more features and game mechanic items which can make or break a game.

M2TW MP is missing a lot of things which we took for granted in STW/MTW. I would like to see those returned.

You are right. But better than nothing. I have less hope too, because, they did RTW and M2TW follows RTW. Why they should make it better? CA have new customers, that are happy with that piece of software. I wish Palamedes also a successful uphill fighting. Try to go around the front line or take mtw2 cav and full charge the front line :laugh4:

[calithian]

Pala and i do go back a bit. Being that we are clanmates i think we probably have things in our forum that you people would pay money to read:beam: I fear our clan is going to fade. I think we have hands down gained the most stregth coming into M2TW of any clan. I dont say this bragging because by all means i have taken the job of water boy since day one. By that i mean that we have at least 10 guys that are really unbelievable players. I am sure that many of my posts came across as venting and perhaps they were. I do know that about 15 of our players in the BRO clan have about the same opinion on where CA can stick this game. :no: Even pala. Well you know what i mean. Unfortunately we are a quiet clan and dont post much in this forum at all. With players like Pala, Huda, Fleshscream, Romulus, Trajan, General, Yellow Melon and so on down the line......and me chasing them while carrying water bottles. Aside from my rants about liberals having a severe mental disorder i would say we are quite a mature clan for us to be as upset as we are about M2TW. We have all posted to in our own forum and i think the general concensus is that if the patch does not improve the game tremendously then most of us are leaving.
So i guess i would say that the majority of my frustration is not that this game did not live up to all the hype so far, but that it is doing so at the cost of the greatest online community in the game. And by great community i do exclude veteran noobs :yes: And clan water boys:yes:

[ElmarkOFear]

I always added a bit of my infamous moonshine to the water can. Made for some interesting battles! :)

I have seen a few of your BRO clan members in the lobby. They seem like a good bunch of guys.

One thing about this patch: I noticed on the .com website speaking about the released date for this patch being very close. The title of the thread though appeared to be very telling: It mentioned "1st Update" The way it is worded it appears this patch is just the first one to take care of some of the major problems. I believe we may have some time for a 2nd patch which could help improve MP. (Let's hope that is the case anyways). Would have to ask Palamedes to be sure.

If they lose the MP community it will be for the 2nd time. The old STW/MTW MP community pretty much abandoned the game after RTW. The new RTW MP community is now setting where the old veteran MP community was setting. I just hope things turn out a bit better the 2nd time around and the MP community doesn't have to go through a 3rd beginning. Its such a shame to waste such a wonderful MP experience, by ignoring it for so long. I have heard rumor that it was Brian Simpson who was/is behind this.

For a little history:

At first, Rome Total War was going to be an advanced version of MTW. CA staff set up an MP forum (and asked me to run it) to gather ideas for the new game. There was a nice list of improvements worked up. However, a few months later we began to notice the lack of participation by CA staff, and how the staff never discussed the status of RTW MP. When we asked, we never received a response. I was a mod/admin at the .com during this time and nothing was mentioned there either. It was then announced that RTW would be going in a new direction and would be using a new battle engine. WE began noticing talk about graphics, ease of play, making the game more approachable etc . . . I knew this was heralding the death of MP as we knew it. Which, by itself wasn't terrible news. Little did I know at the time, MP would take a backseat to the campaign and graphical updates. The demo pretty much validated my fears, but it was hard to tell whether that was a finished product, plus it didn't show what the MP lobby and MP gameplay would be like.
About a week before the stated release date of RTW, a CA staff member came in the MP forum and asked a few questions. It was then I realized that they had just then started working on the MP lobby and MP options. I should have known better than to buy RTW at the time, but I was still optimistic during those days. Needless to say, RTW's original MP was so lacking in options, features, and originality, I was very dissappointed. I then played a few games online and realized to my horror that MP wasn't even an afterthought in RTW. It had been totally overlooked and problems which had been in MTW (but were patched), once again showed up in RTW. I sold my game back, resigned my position at the .com, posted a very nice little post in the private CA forums listing a whole page of problems, and also stating that the MP community would leave in droves. All of it came to pass and I left TW for awhile and played a few other games instead. I still participated in the forums, since I knew most of the people and enjoyed conversing with them. Eventually, though I moved on.
I have just recently come back to M2TW, after a long-time friend of mine T1Master talked me into purchasing this game. He stated MP had improved slightly over RTW and that he was having fun playing again. Me being the sucker that I am, I bought the game (also my son wanted to play it, so that too gave me another excuse! hehe) and played online a bit. I agree, that the MP game is slightly better than the original RTW I remember. Though there are still major oversights, and obvious reminders that MP still isn't considered important enough to put much time into. One of those is the units and their stats/costs. I noticed like units, with like stats, having different costs. I also noticed like units with lower stats being more expensive than ones with greater stats. Lastly, I noticed several places where a faction has 3 or 4 units with duplicate stats, which pretty much kills the upgrade limits of "4 units before cost penalties" instituted by the upgrade system. All of these break the balance for MP. MP is a totally different animal from SP. You cannot use the costs for units from SP to determine the cost of units from MP. MP does not include the cost of buildings in their calculations, plus you can upgrade them with florins instead of having to purchase, build a building to produce the upgrades. The SP and MP stats have to be separated if we are ever going to get a patch to address MP imbalances. Reason being, CA will not make changes which might upset the SP campaign game to help out MP balance.

So this is how I got to the point where I am today and why I am willing to try to help Palamedes get changes through to help improve the MP game. I am definitely not an optimist, but after being away for so long, I now have a different perspective and can now accept the game for what it is and have a slight bit of hope for its future improvement.

If you see me in the MP lobby, PM me and I can show you how a Veteran Noob plays the game! Might even introduce you to the "Joys of Routing". :)

[calithian]

introduce me to routing????/ :no: I think not. Routing my army is very probable but that would not be my introduction. I can rout my own army:laugh4: I have no problem finding units whos flags go white on impact. I have even been known to run cav into my own stakes. This obstical i am trying to dodge in the future but will probably happen more than once. I am a pretty good rtw player and was a very decent BI player. However i learned very fast that habits learned in RTW are not healthy for M2TW. It is a much slower paced game as far as kills go. Blobbing cav and a few inf units for a quick rout is not the case in this game. No matter how many times i loose because i cant rout an enemy flank as fast as i would like, i still continue to try. I prefer the faster kill rate because of this. But either way i will eventually adjust.

As far as your rebel moonshine goes, I add something similar. A good old San Diego micro brew called Arrogant Bastard Ale. + 3 moral for all troops on the battle field at the time. That number decreases significantly though when you wake up the next morning.

Meeting in the lobby is likely for a game but most of us play at west coast time. We have a couple players from old dixie who have far exceeded their limit on moonshine by the time we get on. Nevertheless we still get games in at about 7:30 to 10:30 our time.

Elmark perhaps we can have a game this weekend. I think we may call it the BATTLE OF BETTERMANSHIP. He may see once and for all who has the better booze moral in their troops. Micro Brew vs. Moonshine. :skull: ~:cheers:

[ElmarkOFear]

Calithian Replied: Routing my army is very probable but that would not be my introduction. I can rout my own army I have no problem finding units whos flags go white on impact.

Yes, but have you had your army rout before the game actually started? True story: Palamedes "May" have been in that game. I remember it was several of the RTKs participating in a big 4v4 game and I accidentally hit the "rout all" button and my men went scampering off the map before anyone had even deployed. The RTK's laughed at me! :) I do not take the title Veteran Noob lightly my friend!

I am in the Eastern Standard time zone, but I work the midnight shift, so there may be a good possibility on the weekends I may be on around the times most of your guys play online. If I see any of you, I will give you a shout.

[pevergreen]

Just a quick point about Dev's. They tend to stay out of the forums, due to the aforementioned yelling/attacking etc. They (good ones at least) do watch over the forums, picking up tidbits of infomation as they see them. I've seen a dev post a workaround for a mod problem when no one else knew the way. Was surprised. Now I think I remember hearing that CA was in Brisbane, Australia? (part of it at least) Well if that's true, I may be working there in a few years (ie 6-7 years :laugh4: am only starting year 11 next year). Look out CA pever's a coming! Eventually...

[FearSimbol]

Calithian Replied: Routing my army is very probable but that would not be my introduction. I can rout my own army I have no problem finding units whos flags go white on impact.

Yes, but have you had your army rout before the game actually started? True story: Palamedes "May" have been in that game. I remember it was several of the RTKs participating in a big 4v4 game and I accidentally hit the "rout all" button and my men went scampering off the map before anyone had even deployed. The RTK's laughed at me! :) I do not take the title Veteran Noob lightly my friend!

I am in the Eastern Standard time zone, but I work the midnight shift, so there may be a good possibility on the weekends I may be on around the times most of your guys play online. If I see any of you, I will give you a shout.

OHHHHHH NOOOOO some one is ataking Fear clan m8s? :furious3:
i am so glad i will be in the field again cuting noobs head off!
now i understand why people say they miss me.. We need put Order! :whip:

[7Bear7Bottom]

*Honey detector turns on and starts flashing a red light in the den.*

*Global positioning device pops out of a honey pot with translucent blinking lights pin pointing the exact location of the post and folds out neatly infront of Bottoms chair*


I see Bears, Aggony, Kenchikuka, VKC, Elite, Celtiberos and few other clan members from here and there playing MTW2. You should ask them what is their opinion.

Did someone say Bears?:laugh4:

MTW2 problems can be worked around easily in MP, because if you don't work around them, your easy prey.

Problem: Grouping doesn't work and formations change when moving army.

Solution: Don't use grouping, select all the units you want, and draw all the lines that you want made manually.

Hint: Do finger exercises before playing, or in my case claw exercises, so you won't get tired doing all that extra work moving your troops around.

Problem: Range likes to melee instead of shooting when adjusting for range.

Solution: Go to custom batles in single player, adjust your normal camera angle, test distance between combatants, and estimate the distance for that particular range unit to the enemy. You may want to put a ruler on your screen to see the exact measurement if your fussy.

Hint: Make sure no one sees you doing this like your wife, or you might be sent to do other measurements around the house that you have been avoiding.

Problem: Horse Archers don't circle properly, or run into enemy units causing melee to happen.

Solution: Play Shogun and MTW/VI once a day to get use to not having this option.

Hint: Use loose formation to limit casualties, circling only makes your units dizzy and lets be honest here there are no covered wagons in the game anyways.

Problem: Units don't rout instantly when surrounded.

Solution: Pick a well balanced army of range, swords, spears, cav and axes to challenge enemy armies effectively. You may in some games not be able to get a good flank going. Depending on this alone is a poor sign of generalship.

Hint: Practise your flanking techniques, you might be flanking units with impetuous tags on them considering the cercomstance of the battle like death of enemy ally general etc. If this does not help, and your still pulling your hair out, it's time to lay off the tripple cream latays and cappuccinos.

Problem: Cav charge sometimes doesn't work.

Solution: Wait for next patch.

Hint: Put cav on guard mode for now, if attempting a charge fails, you will be already prepared to defend. If this doesn't work, turn computer screen off, count to ten, turn on again, and type GG.

I hope I have enlighten a few MP players out there and hope to see you all on-line.:smash:

[Warluster]

Okay all, just remeber one thing, these CA people are not machines, can you imagine how many forums are out there?! Another thing, look at the bad things right, good, CA will try to do all that in the next patch (They have lives:yes: ), now look at all the good things. You should be happy that these people are even MAKING this game!! Imagine if they did not put all time and effort into this game, of course they will not get it right the first time!! Do you think there eyes scan the game and BOOM! Beep-beep-beep, found error! No, they dont have laser eyes (Imagine if they did:laugh4: ). So be happy with what ya got because remember, YOU ARE LUCKY TO EVEN HAVE THIS GAME!!

[ElmarkOFear]

Bottom you forgot to put

Problem: Chasing Elmo off the map without getting tired. :yes:

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Okay all, just remeber one thing, these CA people are not machines, can you imagine how many forums are out there?! Another thing, look at the bad things right, good, CA will try to do all that in the next patch (They have lives:yes: ), now look at all the good things. You should be happy that these people are even MAKING this game!! Imagine if they did not put all time and effort into this game, of course they will not get it right the first time!! Do you think there eyes scan the game and BOOM! Beep-beep-beep, found error! No, they dont have laser eyes (Imagine if they did:laugh4: ). So be happy with what ya got because remember, YOU ARE LUCKY TO EVEN HAVE THIS GAME!!

Sure, they are not machines, but why they haven't made an open multiplayer beta test. Or they could ask us about our happiness with multiplayer. Because they are not interested in. This isn't a reproach, it is a conclusion.

And we cannot happy with that game. Yesterday a m8 in MTW Vi called MTW2 Medieval Command and Conquer and that's right.

[ElmarkOFear]

hehe M2TW isn't that bad! But I do wish they would bring back the option to use the old left click method instead of the current RTW left-click/right-click. However, the battle engine HAS been simplified to make way for the new graphic animations. The effects of terrain, height, unit formation, flanking, fatigue, and weather, have all been reduced or eliminated entirely. I think that is what most of the old veterans miss. There also was a predictable outcome in unit vs. unit comparisons, whereas M2TW appears to be random at times. Though it is hard to tell whether it is due to the game engine or some other factor we may not be aware of. Unlike STW/MTW where the game mechanics of the battle engine were known, CA has chosen not to give much (any) information on how such things as above effect the outcome of a battle by how much.

The game is still better than any RTS around, and is fun to play with teammates and friends. But if I was in a competitive mood, I can see how I would feel just like a lot of you. When you play competitively, you want to know as much about the game's internal workings as possible. Unfortunately, M2TW is still a mystery which CA doesn't seem willing to shed light on yet. :)

[Stig]

lol good post Bottom

[FearSimbol]

Hahaha Bottom

Problem: Units don't rout instantly when surrounded.

That is not a problem for God sake.. What people is thinking? that just surrounding soldiers have to surrender? What about if you can move fast and just overcome the flank? or you have anothers units in the field, like cavs that can run and help the unit surrounded?

GAH! comon!

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Problem: Cav charge sometimes doesn't work.

Solution: Wait for next patch.

Hint: Put cav on guard mode for now, if attempting a charge fails, you will be already prepared to defend. If this doesn't work, turn computer screen off, count to ten, turn on again, and type GG.

This is my favorite Hint! :laugh4:

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

LOL Bottom, good one :)

[7Bear7Bottom]

Just for Elmo.:yes:


Problem: Chasing Elmo off the map without getting tired.

Solution: Don't play Elmo in Viking era, make many excuses not to join the game like the dog was sick on the rug again, or the garbage truck hit you while taking the the trash out and you really need to goto the Hospital.

Hint: If you get suckered into a vikings game with him, take exactly what elmo takes, leave your computer and get tasks done around the house like washing dishes, ironing clothes, walking the dog, doing and finishing a 10000 peice puzzle or full coat of wax on your car. Pass by the computer every 30 min. and type common catch phrases as "what a nice battle" or "man your really good with those units". Also turn volume up on computer speakers so you can hear the end battle music, run to the computer and type GG.

[ElmarkOFear]

hehe My teammates always found that I played better when I dropped at the start of the game.

[pevergreen]

Surely your not That bad...are you? If you are, I may be able to beat you! :laugh4: My hundreds of knights will flee in terror of your routing gunpowder troops!

[t1master]

better when he dropped, or when you could attack him as an allie (mtw before vi) and rout him through the enemy lines....:laugh4:

[7Bear7Bottom]

Don't you mean chaise 16 Bonnachts threw enemy lines?:laugh4:

[ElmarkOFear]

I loved my all-Bonnacht army! Individually that units was horrible, but together in a large group, it could wreak havoc! hehe Though you had to remember to put the units on hold/hold or they would skirmish off the map at the very beginning!

LOL T1 I remember many a game AMP would wait for my army to rout, then attack me (his ally) and kill my running men, just so he could get the in battle valor increase to improve his mens stats. That was why his army always was very tough at the end of the game, even though he had what appeared as weaker units. :) Ooops, I gave one of his secrets away! hehe